It's possible but I doubt it I think the Bad Twin thing was just a device to sell some merchandise ie..the book and through people off. If it is possible though which Ben is which is Ben on the island good or bad is the off island Ben in 4.03 the same Ben as island Ben or the bad Ben?

You had me until the last paragraph. If the Ben we see on the island has never left, what does he do with all of the passports and luggage?
Also, If he did in fact have a 'bad twin', wouldn't they have to communictae somehow to get on the same page? Maybe if we have seen Ben go into some psychic trance or something to intent Tomax-Xamont type telekenesis, but there hasn't been any of that.

So it could be possible, but they would have to communicate.

Would make sense of Mikhail's "return from the dead". If this is true, maybe we'll see another Ethan!

Did anyone see the subliminal message in the video that says "God loves you as He loved Jacob"? Does this mean that Jacob is dead?

Dr. Hallowax asks the woman when did you set the shift? She says negative twenty.
Anyone seen the movie "The Prestige". Tesla creates an electrical device that essentially clones matter. The clone appears a distance from the device. Perhaps the negative twenty is the distance or time at which the clone appears. It may even be some sort of time machine.

Also, there are several other subliminal shots in the video.

One of what a appears to be a bearded Dr. Hallowax

One of a building

One of an upside-down shot of someone riding a bicycle in the barracks.

I think you're on to something here. Could be that Doctors Candle, Wickmund, hallowax, are clones of eachother. I kinda like where this could lead.

Kinda off topic but since phenatic mentioned it - The Prestige is an amazing film.

Lots of semi-fictious Tesla stuff for Losties to ponder too.

I interpreted that immediately as being a rabbit from the future or immediate past in the same place as his double, as in Back to the Future. Alternatively it could be a double from a parallel universe, as in Sliders. However if the latter were the case there would be no danger in having them near each other.

Either way I can't help but suspect that there's a parallel between those rabbits and the two Oceanic 815 planes, one broken into three pieces over the Island and one broken into three (identical) pieces on the bottom of the Sundra Trench. I've never been convinced that the sunken plane is a fake, even with the missing wedding ring.

The only thing that doesn't jive is all the passports. What's the need if you have a double in another time/space/dimension?

Also, I was wondering if the Orchid had any significance to cloning? Has there been any famous cloning of orchids? Like everyone knows the name has to have some meaning.

'Did anyone see the subliminal message in the video that says "God loves you as He loved Jacob"? Does this mean that Jacob is dead?'.

man is said 2 be made in gods image,jacob is ben's clone and is off the island and are connected like twins are said 2 be and can communacate with him through telephy or something,why u cant see jacob and ben is frightened when locke claims 2 hears jacob speak.also ben said jacob is the boss so maybe jacob is the real ben and it is the clone thats on the island

I also loved "The Prestige" and happened to be looking that up on the internet a few minutes ago. What is "Sliders" like? Any good?

I am on board with the twin theory. There seems to be much implication and proof of it.

Imelda

Hello Don- it's amazing- I just posted this theory on the oceanicworldair forum last night. I think the doppleganger theory can explain the reason for Ben being on and off the island, as well as the odd animals we've seen (tunisian polar bear, black horse, cow) and the doubles of characters (walt, eko's brother, Christian Shepard, Mikail). My theory is that one twin is always good, the other bad and they are out to destroy each other. The black/ white theme points to a conflict of good vs. evil. I think we've discovered a secret of LOST- now we have to figure out the good from the evil.

Why is Ben so bad? I mean, yes, we hate his methods, but could it be that in the grand scheme of things what Ben is doing is actually going to turn out for some good?

This is very interesting. If I remember correctly, last season there was also mention of a box where if you think about something, or someone enough, it would make them appear. Is that not how Lock's father ended up on the island? Perhaps this might tie in.

hi could any body tell me there thory on ''when jack was in that cage and alot of people came outside his cage including the airplane assistant (cindy) and she said ''we are here to watch''

i havent heard any news on this for a while so cold some who please tell me there theory or conclusion thanks

hey this is kind of off topic, but related to ben...but i was wondering, now that we know more about who got off the island i have two things:

1. is ben considered to be one of the oceanic six? if so, how does oceanic explain him being on the plane when im pretty sure he wasnt...

2. this might be way off cuz maybe i didnt think about something, so im just throwing it out there, but at the end of season 3, in that final scene where jack tries to convince kate they need to go back, kate says something like "he'll be wondering where i am.." Im assuming its someone she either lives with or someone who has a good amount of power over her...kind of like ben having power over sayid -- maybe the "he" she mentions is in fact BEN?! i always thought it was strange/awkward how ben had that fancy brunch on the beach with kate after they captured her --maybe that would tie into him being with her (at her liking or not) off of the island? and she was driving that really nice car also, and according to how ben was dressed in the vets office, he seems to be somewhat well off himself...

this could tie into there being two bens, im sure...just to go along with the twin theory

hopefully well get some more answers in the next episode

thoughts..??

hi could any body tell me there thory on ''when jack was in that cage and alot of people came outside his cage including the airplane assistant (cindy) and she said ''we are here to watch''

i havent heard any news on this for a while so cold some who please tell me there theory or conclusion thanks

OK. I'm with you on the whole rabbit/Bad Twin connection (the Candle/Wickman/Hollowax tie in to this theory). Even the Mikhail observation is interesting.
I don't think Christian, Walt, Eko's brother or the horse we're relative. I think that's all Smokey (which I think is tied in to Jacob being unable to move or help himeself). Things are getting interesting though.

Mikhail once made a comment to Locke upon first meeting him that he was not the John Locke he (knew)... and was cut off by another character. This may support the twin theory in some fashion.

There was no "bearded Hallowax" in that video. It was a clip of Dr Gerald DeGroot from the Swan orientation film.

Regarding the questions about why Ben has all the passports and luggage:

If Ben is somehow being cloned, why stop at just one? He could have resources (passports, money, clothes, etc.) ready for any number of potential clones to use as soon as they're fresh out of the oven.

well, if the Ben from the flashbacks is a different one from the one we've seen on the island then i would bet that off-island Ben is the powerful man that hired the freighties (through Abbadon) to find the other Ben.

i meant to say, the ben from the flashforward**

FUTURAMA BAD TWIN THEORY: This may sound stupid, but this topic was actually touched on recently in a Futurama straight-to-DVD-movie: Bender's Big Score. Every time they time traveled, it created a duplicate of themselves. When a copy was made, the duplicate was doomed. They'd end up dying in some sort of spectacular fashion. Funny, they also had a string of 1's and 0's when read would create a "time sphere." If the code was used too much, it would destroy the universe. It's funny how that seems to coincide with the numbers on Lost.

i think ben's evil twin is the spy on the freighter. I know that is farfetched but maybe that could happen..its lost right???
great show

if evil twin Ben was on the freighter, they would recognized him.Their mission was to get Ben, his twin looks like him...that theory dosn't work...sorry ben

Good point, Mike on Mikhail commenting on Locke.

lol..iknow that would be cool though..thanks maxsmom to ruin my hope..but i still love u...lost fans stick together

possible but not true. people go on and off the island. richard does with the other guy who is now dead.

Sorry Don, I was going from memory on the book title but I do like where this is all going. Especially about the possible time travel/clone creation. Also on there being 2 Ben's (good/evil), twins in general have some type of connection to each other when they are not together. There are plenty of real life reports of 1 twin having a "feeling" of the other twin having a bad thing happen to him/her. If the "island" Ben just has that "twintuition" that with what he knows about the island that his "bad twin" wants the island for his purposes he's going to stop at nothing to save the world.

re: Ochids and cloning

Of you're a evolutionary biologist/psychologist- you hear LOST mention Orchids, and you respond "But of COURSE."

There are some animals that the public can immediately join the scientist geeks in their joy taking about how cool they are in their "tricks" shooing off predators or attracting mates. They've evolved color patterns that make them look big and beautiful (peacock's tails) or fierce (standing up fur on an upset cat) The behavior or appearance has helped the creature to survive, and to reproduce- which is the main life goal...

Plants must work even harder than animals, towards reproduction- as they've got to rely on some other force to do all of their work on their behalf.

The Orchid is the most diverse and "high tech" plant I can think of. It is freaky "smart." The appearances the plant has evolved into, such as to get the business of reproduction done- are amazing. Things like: a flower will look like it has a bee inside, because, over time, enough boy bees got fooled, and thought it was a girl bee in there- and tried to mate her, during which a time, he cross- pollinated some flowers, such that those continued to survive, while those which did NOT have this mutation died off.

and that's just ONE flower in the family of "orchids". They've ALL got amazing genetic stories.

1. The Mikhail comment to Locke sounds like he is indicating a clone. Out of any other possible theory, only 1 more matches up. He is the information "getter" for Ben, so when he gets information on Locke, Locke is in a Wheel Chair. So it could have been like many things on LOST, worded so you may be puzzled.

2. Loved Jacob - Lets go back in time when God still loves. Where was Ben? Was Jacob an entity like Ben? What makes Jacob special anyway? The biggest questions I don't think will be answered till the very last season, like the black smoke...

Theres countless theories on the "Loved", We know Ben is the original, he was born off the island, his mom died at birth, then after atleast 10 years brought to the island. The "Others" may not know that, for years he was raised there, then turned on the Dharma people.
Why does a possible Deity need someone to do his bidding? Why stuck in a cabin? I think Ben lacks the knowledge of the power of the Island and like Locke seeks Jacob for direction. Only difference is Locke knows the power of the Island much better than Ben. Ben is knowledgeable about the island and technology on the otherhand, so like Jack, Ben is a man of science with the awknowledgement of something else. Jack doesn't think he is crazy when he sees his father, hears a monster but sticks to a physical reason.

3. Clones. Clones. Clones. Possible. BUT who has the ability or started it? Dharma, after taking over the camp with the "others" Ben would need men of science to figure it out. Thus seeking people from the "real world" however he is doing it, we know Richard is seen in the real world collecting people.

After figuring out how to clone (if thats the case at all) Its only wise if Ben would be using this ability. If he allowed others to use a cloning ability it could threaten him, be hard to manage so many. Clones of only himself make sense, if Christian Shepard was a clone, he is a sneaky vanishing one. Or our favorite character Ana Lucia vanishes from Echo. Feels matrixy if these people are real.

4. The other, the others, and the other people: We know a group is trying to get to the island in flash forwards (Tall black guy). This group I believe is Dharma trying to get back to the island (not like this is original). Dharma obviously doesn't know ANYTHING about what is happening on the island since they had control. Ben is controlling contact and transportation including the Hydra. How and why food would still be dropping is interesting, and begin to wonder who is dropping it off. For a minimum of 16 years Dharma hasn't been running the island. Long time to still be dropping off rations with no response. Too many groups looking for, stuck on, trying to leave the island to keep tabs on.

5. Ever see Richard and pay attention to his age when Ben was a boy, up to now? does he even age a second?

Like i'm sure any Lostie conversation you get LOST on a rabbit trail of questions like I just did. But back to Evil Twin... which is what the post is supposed to be about. Its possible, but don't hold to everything the book says. The writers have already said they've taken in soooo much from a ton of books, becasue in the end they want people to read again. I think they're taking bits and peices from sooo many books linking certain things and added an island thus creating LOST.

Hey maxsmom22, don't talk to ben like that you piece of shit. You don't know jack shit about LOST, so fuck yourself. Me and "Ben" can fucking outsmart any of you in this show, so don't even begin to question his judgement. Next time, ask me or ben if your theories sound good, thanks buddy.
-Sam

The orchid video mentioned the Cassimir Effect, which basically confirms the twin theory IMO

The effect is due to particles and antiparticles produced spontaneously through energy borrowed from the future. The two then meet, and anihilate each other, giving that borrowed energy back. They are called virtual particles, because on average they do not exist. These things are happening everywhere in space, all the time, even in a vaccuum. Some people think a similar borrowing of energy caused the big bang.

You wouldn't bring those two bunnies together if they'd anihilate each other. You'd release way more than enough energy to boil the oceans. It'd be far worse than a nuclear bomb.

although interesting i think it would be too much of a cop out on the writers part if they just played Ben off as having a twin rather than the criminal mastermind he is currently being portrayed as.

hi could any body tell me there thory on ''when jack was in that cage and alot of people came outside his cage including the airplane assistant (cindy) and she said ''we are here to watch''

It had something to do with Juliette betraying the others. I believe they were going to kill her but Jack stopped it. Instead they branded her for life.

Could it be that the Oceanic 6 are actually "time clones" of the ones still back on the island? Could that be the compelling reason to get back? They figured out how to run the "Orchid station" and get off?

Inquiring minds wanna know...

Hmmm..It's an interesting theory, but say you could actually produce an evil twin of yourself-what good would that do you? Do you think your evil twin is going to rally to your cause and want to do your dirty work for you? Even if you're as persuasive as ben i don't think so. And lets think about what bens evil twin would be like? Ben has always maintained that he is one of the good guys and although extreme, his acts are always to protect the island-why would his evil twin share this vision? The only way this would work is if ben is himself the evil twin,but as we have already established that ben killed all the dharmas and his dad,this would be pointless, i reckon? I really think that ben can leave the island, as we've seen in the flashforward, and has somehow been able to turn sayid into a tortured but ruthless extension of the islands security system( was it me or was it implied that the guy on the golf course was something to do with oceanic,not the economist?).But hey,even jack is now lying in court to protect the island-so who knows,really?

hi this is to josh about -
''
could any body tell me there thory on ''when jack was in that cage and alot of people came outside his cage including the airplane assistant (cindy) and she said ''we are here to watch''

It had something to do with Juliette betraying the others. I believe they were going to kill her but Jack stopped it. Instead they branded her for life.

i want to no why cindy was there wen she was originally on the plane the others then snatch her and the 2 kids and then they end up with the others ..WHY?
i dont get it they havent explained that properly i dont fink..

but get back to me please people

Could it be that the Oceanic 6 are actually "time clones" of the ones still back on the island? Could that be the compelling reason to get back? They figured out how to run the "Orchid station" and get off?
Posted By maddogruff

You basically got to my point before me :( I was sooo proud in having thought of the idea that you have here basically!

Mine is a little different, though. . . .What if the plane they find in the ocean is a clone, as someone above mentioned? Well, then perhaps in some weird way there really was a crash in which only 8 survived . . . wait!

I must stop!!! This no longer works. This would have worked IF and only if Kate and Jack did not talk to each other about not really believing this story they invented. They would really believe it if my theory here was correct. . .

Well, I am enjoying exploring the possibilities that this theory opens up. BUT I only like it if it is really going to account for a lot of stuff, and not just be a cop-out by the writers by only sort of accounting for things, but ultimately not really doing anything that an ordinary fan could not write, as oppossed to the master-mind stuff I have come to expect from this show!!

Off topic but someone brought up Ben's spy on the boat.... Its gotta be Michael!

I'm just viewing this sight, so I may have missed a conversation about this. But, have you discussed the names Candle, Wickman, and Hallowax? All three having indications of the same word. Possibly, this may lead into your clone theory.

I've always wondered what the significance was of the doctor-of-many-names. Candle was a fake seeming name anyway, but with the wick/wax connection, it's gotta come into play. Expose them to extreme heat and see what happens!