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Due to its tricky combination of a flashback and a flash forward, "Ji Yeon" ended up being one of the more controversial episodes of Lost's fourth season.  One TTS reader, Giovanni, already laid out his thoughts on the episode here, and his criticism of it stirred up some hearty debate.  Now we have some more thoughts from readers regarding "Ji Yeon" and the questions it left lingering in our minds.  Is Jin really dead?  What does Charles Widmore have to do with everything?  And will we ever be able to put the debate about Aaron being one of the Oceanic Six to rest?

Submitted by Scott:

I learned a really bad habit from my mother.  To see if a book was good, she would read the first chapter and the last chapter of a book.  Now, that may seem stupid because it spoils it...but if you are reading this then spoilers are nothing new.  How does this relate to Lost?  We’ve seen the first few chapters -- right now we are in the middle and with the flash-forwards we see the end of the book.  So far we have learned that redemption is a main theme for the show.  Most of the time, once someone has redeemed themselves they get shot or a big smoky hand plays tennis with them.  That is why I think this episode is important:  it was all about redemption. 

In the beginning, all that was important to Sun and Jin was being together.  Jin gets a job for Mr. Paik and then things start to change.  When they get on the plane, Sun is about to leave Jin and Jin is stuck doing things for his employer that he disagrees with.  Now, in island time, we see that Jin has done a complete 180 from the days of fighting with Michael over a watch.  He’s chilled out.  Sun, now that she’s going to be a mama, just wants to be with Jin.  The flashback shows that Jin is completely dedicated to his job, whereas now he is completely dedicated to Sun.  He’s even learning English so they can live in the USA away from her family.  Sun goes from learning English in order to leave her husband to calling out for him and wanting to wait to give birth so Jin can be there.  Completely opposite from the way we knew them at the beginning.

Now,  we know the redemption thing usually means someone ends up with 6 feed of sand on top of him or her.  Could this be a warning that something bad is about to happen?  Don’t know.  Just don’t judge a book by one chapter.  Read the whole thing then go back.  This may be an important part of the story once the end comes.  One thing we do know…sometime in the next 6 island months…6 people (Aaron is #6) will be back in the real world.

Submitted by darth philogos:

There are only 2 options for Jin's "death."

1. Jin is still alive on the island and Sun was having a moment because she thinks she'll never see him again.
2. He dies on the island.

My guess is that he dies on the island (probably in the next episode) protecting Sun and the baby.  I think this episode made a good finale for Jin:  He found out "the whole truth" and knows for sure that the baby is his.  We also had a really sweet moment there at the end.

I think the next episode will be Michael-centric.  My theory is that he's the last of the Oceanic 6 and he's the one in the coffin.  I think that accounts for Jack and Kate's animosity toward whoever is in the coffin.

Submitted by Brentie:

I have to throw my two cents in about the Jin flashback.

It was NOT pointless.  The theme of the entire episode was KHARMA.  Bernard explained exactly that to Jin: in simple terms, do good things and good things will happen to you, or do bad things and bad things will happen to you.  Everything bad that happened to Jin as he raced around with that stuffed Panda was a result of his bad kharma (and his actions while working for Sun's father).  And Sun and Jin fostered good kharma for their baby with their decision to stay with the "Jack" tribe.

I thought the episode was quite beautiful in its symmetry.

Submitted by South Kakalaki:

There’s something very important that I think a lot of people are missing out on.  We know the Oceanic 6 get rescued, but WHO rescues them?

Guess what?  It can’t be by Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank.

In Hurley’s Flash Forward, we see Matthew Abaddon ask Hurley if anyone was still alive living on the island. Since this occurred AFTER the rescue, this leads me to believe that Mr. Abaddon has lost contact with his group.

If Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank rescued the Oceanic 6, why would Mr. Abaddon ask Hurley about the island?  He would already know.

My theory is the Oceanic 6 would have to have been rescued by a third party.  Ben strikes a deal with them and strategically places them so they can be found.  This theory is further supported because we know Sayid ends up working for Ben.

Submitted by Leetdewd:

Could it be that Widmore is actually one of the Hanso's (I think I remember hearing about a Hanso besides Alvar. Magnus?) or at least sailed on the Black Rock before it wound up on the island?  Maybe he got thrown off of the boat during the crash and experienced some kind of time warp while floating about in the water. He built his fortune from the treasure he recovered from stashes hidden away on other islands during his pirate days.  This would explain why he has considerable resources, how he knows about the island, and why he wants to get control of it.

Heck, maybe Ben has been lying the whole time and he is also one of the original pirates.  Ben popped up on his radar (somehow related to the picture the "rescuers" have), so Widmore's sure that Ben knows how to get to and from the island, safely.  This could explain why he's so interested in finding Ben.  Ben may have even led a mutiny against Hanso (which caused the crash in the first place), and Widmore/Hanso is just looking to settle an old score.  This could be another explanation as to why rescue is not Widmore's primary concern.

Submitted by The Doctor:

I have a theory on Naomi's bracelet after watching "Ji Yeon."  The initials on the bracelet were R.G. and unless I missed it we never hear Regina's last name.  I say that Naomi and Regina could have been lovers or at least in love.  This would make sense of Regina's behavior.  Initially I thought, as I'm sure most did, that Regina was just sick like the rest.  However, when Keamy walks out and tells Lapidus not to be late, I think he was referring to Naomi's funeral on the ship.  The next morning, Regina has the book upside down, clearly exhausted and not thinking clearly.  She then throws herself off the side of the ship.  I believe she was mourning for Naomi, although it certainly could've been both sadness and sickness. I'm leaning towards sadness.

Submitted by Gavin:

Aaron is not one of the Oceanic 6.  It's the "Oceanic" 6 not the "Mysterious Island" 6.  Aaron was not on the flight, Aaron does not get a big settlement from Oceanic.  There are tons of ways Kate could have pretended to have given birth after the island.  Even if not, they still wouldn't consider him part of the 6.  Lost loves to give us suprises and I wouldn't be too shocked if the last member is the person who doesn't want to leave the island the most, Locke.  His motivation to go back would obviously be to walk again.

Submitted by Scotto:

HOW? HOW? HOW?
How can so many people not understand that Aaron IS one of the 6?

If the media covered a story about rescuing 7 people from a plane crash, why would they call them the 6? The media toplines EVERYTHING.  Also, the previews said "Watch and see who the final member of the Oceanic 6 is".  I really cannot fathom what all of the confusion is about.  Who cares if Aaron was not on the roster?  The show has identified 6 people who were rescued that were there because of a plane crash.

Submitted by Rhonda:

I believe that there are two timelines.  There is the one where Desmond did not push the button, and the plane crashed into the ocean.  The second timeline has Flight 815 crash on the island with the survivors--the timeline that we have been shown.  For what reason they both came about, I am not certain. But, I believe that two different sequences of events led up to the fatal crash and, then, to the crash with the survivors.  I imagine that they happened within a few hours or minutes of each other.  I think the fatal crash was found in the Indian Ocean.  Is this correct?  The losties, I believe, are in the South Pacific.

I'm unsure if Jack's dad, Christian, is actually on the island--stuck in time.  I have wondered if he was alive--didn't Jack find his father's coffin empty?  But, he was obviously dead before he was put in the coffin. However, if he was in another timeline (another sequence of events) before his death, then.....well, that's a stretch.  I know that we are led to believe that Christian was alive in the finale of Season 3, but Jack could have been talking crazy due to the drugs and alcohol.

Submitted by Lynn Connolly:

My theory is that Sun and Hurley went to visit Jin's 'grave' to broadcast a message to him back on the island.... here's why I think so;

Watch the still that's approx 40mins 37secs in.  There's a symbol with a O in it and what could be a thin wire trailing down from the top of the stone.  Could this be a lens?

Sun talks directly at that point all the way through and holds the baby up as if to show her to that point.  She talks in what could be present tense rather than the past tense we might expect when talking to the dead :-)

Sun and Hurley are altogether too cheerful when he arrives.  Sun was checking her make-up and hair. Hurley doesn't offer any commiserations as one might expect from such a sensitive guy.  Instead, he's just glad nobody else turned up.  Another indication that the visit to the grave was pre-scheduled, therefore set to broadcast at a certain time?

Hurley talks about visiting 'him', not his grave.  They'd be dressed in black to pretend they were just paying respects, as we know there's a lot of interest in the six and they wouldn't want anyone knowing the survivors were still on the island.

--------------------------------------

"Your Voice" is a new TTS series in which Tail Section fans submit their articles, theories or reviews to be published on The Tail Section for all their fellow fans to read.  Have you spent far too much time pondering the origins of the DHARMA Initiative?  Have you alienated your co-workers by rambling about Daniel Faraday's wacky time anomaly experiment?  If so, we want to hear from you.  Send your own Lost theories, reviews, or general thoughts to Editor(at)TheTailSection.com.  Please keep all submissions between 300 and 1,000 words.  We will read through all submissions and contact you if we publish your entry.  You will also receive byline credit on our site.

Posted by Don on 17 Mar 2008 at 11:16 | del.icio.us | Digg This | Permalink | Comments (37)

Comments


I have a lot of trouble believing that Michael is both a member of the Oceanic Six and the person in the coffin. If a member of the O6 were to die it would attract a larger number of people to the funeral. Also, it looks like whoever was in the coffin went by an alias. So it could be Michael, but if it is, he's probably not one of the O6.

My theory: Michael is the person in the coffin. He escaped from the boat after sabotaging it, ruining Widmore's plans and helping Ben. He did not become a member of the O6 because he changed his name so Widmore's people wouldn't be able to find him. And guess what? They found him.



I dont think the oceanic 6 are rescued. My theory is that they steal the helicopter which in turn would be piloted by sayid as he knows the correct coordinates too fly away from the island. This would also explain why there are only 6 due to the weight restrictions on the helicopter. Would also explain why they would take aaron as he is still a baby and easily the lightest. This must tie in with Ben somehow though but not sure how.

Anyways thats just my theory and its probably wrong!

cheers



I guarantee the Sayid Ben interaction was a flashback not a flashforward, especially now that we know the makers of lost like to use both simultaniously.



There is one thing that still gets me - the bodies at the bottom of the ocean.

Yes, the finding of Oceanic 815 was staged, this we know. But once the Oceanic 6 return (regardless of who those 6 are) how are the 6 extra bodies in the plane explained? Actually it would be 8 to go along with Jack's courtroom story/lie.

Anyone have any thoughts? Maybe I'm just missing or overlooking something.



To the Doctor:

What about the bracelet Sayid found on the girl in episode 3.



To the last comment. Sayid and Ben's interaction was indeed a flashforward. If you were paying attention when he was at the golf course just before he shot that man he said "yes i am one of the oceanic 6". And when Ben was talking to him in the end scene, Ben said "dont u remember what they did to your friends the last time you used your heart insted of your gun" Ben was talking about the people on the frater and what they did to the people on the island. There is no way that Ben and Sayid's interaction was a flashback, also due to the fact that when we first met Ben, neathier Sayid nor Ben even looked like they knew each other. there for impossible. I'm sorry to burst your theory NL.



hey mike..i thought about that too..however i believe the producers have ruled out the connection between the two.i cant exactly site the podcast off the top of my head but im certain they said its not the case. I think you can also find that point referenced on youtube at "lost recaps and secrets" done by seanie b..he has great stuff and i recommend it to any lost fan



hey mike..i thought about that too..however i believe the producers have ruled out the connection between the two.i cant exactly site the podcast off the top of my head but im certain they said its not the case. I think you can also find that point referenced on youtube at "lost recaps and secrets" done by seanie b..he has great stuff and i recommend it to any lost fan..the doctor



ONe more thing MIke..


i was wrong in that regina and the book were the same evening, it was not the next day where she had it upside down. But i still stand by the theory. If there was indeed a service for naomi, more than likely they tossed her body over the side. The next day, sick and pale with grief, she (regina) tosses herself over as well to be with naomi..i could be wrong, but hey, its lost, who knows



Thanks Doctor,

I checked out the you tube video about episode 3 from Sean b but he didn't mention anything dispelling the bracelets not meaning anything. It was informative nonetheless and I can't wait to watch the rest of them. If you find where you heard the bracelet thing let me know.



How about the R.G. being captain Gault?



The plane crash was not necessarily "staged." Remember Michael's warning: "Don't trust the captain." Oceanic 815 could have been "duplicated"/time shifted mid-flight through the Swan Hatch EMP (from Desmond failing to push the button), like the rabbit in the Orchid video - one version crash landing on the island, one version crash landing in the middle of the ocean.

Or the captain is telling the truth. Who knows?



I have a theory on the numbers...

I have a feeling the Losties will pick numbers out of a hat to determine who the 6 that would be rescued, the winning numbers??? would be 4 8 15 16 23 42. I am sure that some would give their winning numbers to their significant counterparts ie Claire to Aaron, Jin to Sun...



Another random comment to throw into the mix, which frankly has nothing to do with the last episode (which I really liked).....When season 3 finished and we saw Jack attempting to commit suicide before rescuing those people, he was obviously fully bearded and basically in a bad way healthwise. Then in this seasons flashforwards we catch up with Jack again looking clean shaven and in a lot healthier state, like when he met hurley at the mental institute and when he appeared in Kates story at the courthouse. My question to you all, is which flashforward do you think is first in the series of events???



I believe it has already been confirmed that all the flash forwards in season 4 take place before the the flash forward in the finale of season 3.



Stu - echoing what Craig said - I read in an interview w/ Lindelof that the scene at the end of the season 3 finale is at the end of our current chronology. Every flash forward is b/w the rescue and that point - he said this season works up to that point.



Stu asked, "Then in this seasons flashforwards we catch up with Jack again looking clean shaven and in a lot healthier state, like when he met hurley at the mental institute and when he appeared in Kates story at the courthouse. My question to you all, is which flashforward do you think is first in the series of events???"

Remember when Jack played HORSE with Hurley, Jack said he was thinking about growing a beard. This flashforward was then before the Season 3 finale.



THere are plenty of other clues as to why the Sayid/Ben scene is a flashback. What Ben said was vague and you can't forget about Sayid's love interest whenhe was in the army. Yes, the golf course scene was a flashforward, the Ben scene was a flashback, guaranteed



Thanks for the input gents. In that case when Jack meets Kate at the Airport at the very end of the flashforward of the season 3 finale, and she says "he'll be waiting" she was presumeably referring to Aaron perhaps?

On a seperate note, Ive been thinking about the old mystery of who is in the coffin that Jack went too see, my theory....I reckon that the person in the coffin is the last member of the Oceanic 6, I think it will be someone that no one expects, like perhaps Locke or Ben??? I dont think were going to find out who is the last member of the Oceanic six for some time, and this could well be a shock that presents itself at the end of the season. Any thoughts on this?



I think kate is definitely referring to aaron when I she says I have to get back to him.
As for the coffin person, even if it was locke or ben, what would it really matter. At this point i dont think its really that important who's in the coffin. what would we learn if it was, say, locke? for me the coffin is irrelevant at the moment. There's definitely bigger fish to fry!



I thought the same thing that the Sayid and Ben was a flashback not a flash forward.

I have been looking for a scar from the gunshot that Sayid got from he girl, but I have not noticed one, has anyone else seen one? It would be on his left sholder.
If he has a scar on the island that means it was a flash back not a flash forward.

Please post if you have seen a scar on the island.

Cheers.



Another reason that itis a flashback is when Sayid is onthe golf course he has his hair pulled back and there is some graying goingon near his ears and he has a beer belly. In Germany he is slim and fit.



Hi all;

Anyone have a clue what "Ji Yeon" means in English? I've tried an online Korean to English translator but it says no such word(s) found. Just curious, because sometimes even English names have a literal translation, i.e. David= beloved
I LOVE LOST!



R U STUPID THE WHOLE SAYID CENTRIC EPISODE WAS A FLASH FORWARD IF BEN AND SAYIDS INTERACTION WAS A FLASH BACK THEN HE WUD NO AND RECONISE HIM ON THE ISLAND..



yeah people should relax on the sayid thing FORGET IT



I agree that the Sayid story was all flash forward (but disagree with calling people who watch LOST "Stupid"). However, if (and it's a BIG if), Sayid had known Ben before the crash he of all people could pretend NOT to know him. Admittedly, it would be a great twist.

And to roentgen, I think Ji Yeon is just a common name for a girl. The actress who plays Sun has reportedly been filming a movie in which she plays a character by the same name. Then again, even names in English mean something... It could mean, "daughter great TV couple".



Ok Jin is dead! Jack said 8 made it and only 6 lived. Claire is one of the eight and so is Jin. They both die hence arron going to Kate. I think that Des makes it off the island and so does Julie! They were on on the plane so they wouldnt be one of the 6. Jin is not on the island with a camera looking at Sun.



Thank you tomfishstory! My theory is a bit of a stretch, but the clues are there and I would to be right.



You guys need to get your head out of the gutters, lol couldn't Regina be the sister Naomi was refering to before she died. When she said say goodbye to my sister for me.

It wouldn't be far fetched (in Lost terms) that Regina is actually the captains wife. Since Gault is an odd fellow he pretty much didn't care or is really hard and salty and didn't want to risk the lives of anyone else going after her without even wincing at the thought of losing his wife.

"N I will always be with you R.G." is the inscription on the bracelet on Naomi, it doesn't necessarily meant they were lovers but I could see close family members saying that. Maybe that's why she jumped ship literally.



Didn't Sayid discuss being one of the Oceanic 6 with the Economist's assistant? I believe so, and that would squarely put that storyline - and shooting and repair by Dr Ben - in the future.



Diggum, the ssistant asked Sayid what it was like being in crash, not being one of the oceanic 6, he could have been in some kind of crash while in the army and he told her about it, maybe there was a scar she saw. You question actually highlights another reason why I think it ws a flashback, she didn't say Oceanic 815 or beingone of the 6 for a reason.



My thoughts about Jin…

He’s dead!!

He didn’t make it off the island. Granted he could still be on the island but I don’t see that – the entire episode focused on his and Sun’s newfound union (Where Sun go, I go). There is no way he wouldn’t go with her.

I thought this was a really good episode for both Korean characters but I felt so bad for Jin! He finds out his wife cheated on him and he dies in the same episode – now that’s rough!

I still see that no one has added any comments about the question I posed earlier in this thread: Once the Oceanic 6 return, how do they explain the “extra bodies” found at the bottom of the ocean floor? Right now (you know what I mean) the rest of the world thinks the plane was recovered with no survivors.

I would love to hear what everyone thinks. I know it’s a minor mystery in the grand scheme of things but its one I haven't come-up with an answer for (yet)!



LostinTranslation, I bet they say that they miscounted the amount of bodies due to the depth of the 'plane' in the water and equipment malfunction



That is a thought, NL. But I wouldn't buy it. In this day age, with the technology we have, bodies are identified with the slimmest of remains. Think of other plane crashes, or even 9/11. Death counts are made with only fingers and teeth.



Not only that, but wouldn't that answer piss you off?

[lol]



My guess on the discrepancy b/w the sunken plane and the emergence of the O6 is that everyone was PRESUMED dead w/ that plane in the water, but when the O6 emerge the world learns that 6 (nay 8) survived that crash. Remember that the reports of 'everyone dead' were before any survivors were found. I still think it raises a sticky paradox, but I'll trust they'll resolve it ok.



Yes, but even Capt Gault mentions/clarifies the number of bodies found on the ocean floor - 324. That's the exact same number as passengers and crew that were on board.



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