[i]Unless you travel back in time, like Mrs. Hawking does.[i]

I'm assuming for now (because it fits my ever changing theory's purpose) that the house with more rooms analogy refers to the island being a nexus between the world we know and something else...

Or maybe the house with more rooms represents the vast subterranean underworld of the island......

Under the Island - The Island - Above the Island. Rooms????

So at least they have cleared up the...
"Damon & Carlton said we have DEFINATELY have NEVER seen Jabob before insanity." We don't know if we have or not.

Q Who’s playing this character—someone new, or someone we know?

LINDELOF: We’re not going to answer that.

They ain't saying!!!

So what did Zeke say in the jungle to Jack.....?

"You don't come into someone else's house and start eating their food, wondering thru their rooms...."

the island is not an island and there is a MUCH bigger world that these people have no idea about....

I am liking my Vacuum/Tornado theory very well or it is the Truman show all over again

Time traveling? They said there was NO time traveling!!! They lied? It is not fair with the viewers. I am quitting the Show.

Perhaps they are "Time" rooms. Sitting on the hill, Richard Alpert (Jacob?) tells Locke...."Every time I see this view, it ceases to amaze me" (Or something like that. Did anyone notice the valley looked similar to the topography of the Barracks? Yet there was no stone pillar near the barracks.....but, is the stone pillar in the future?.....or the past?

More rooms? I have to think that is either an underworld that we have thought may exist for a while now, or perhaps many more hatches than anyone thought.

"Time" rooms revisited: The Stone Pillar is Old, as Ben referred to it as an Old "Place" (Ben tells Locke they are going to "an old place". Old "Place" = Old "Room".

Time traveling? They said there was NO time traveling!!! They lied? It is not fair with the viewers. I am quitting the Show.

Posted by Carl Zackery | May 8, 2007 6:48 AM Reply to this comment

I don't know when you people are finally going to give up this lame argument. DL and CC have said REPEATEDLY that there is time travel, and that Desmond did time travel. They stated in their podcast when specifically asked, "Yes, Desmond did time travel". How many times must you have it beat into your head before you finally get it?

The epi FBYE's clearly showed Desmond moving from one place in time to another. Ms. Hawking was clearly referring to time traveling when she spoke of course corrections. Desmond has been shown over and over again in the past few episodes that he can 'see the future'. He has been challenged on this fact by both Hurley and Charlie who have now been convinced. Can you not believe something that is shown to you right in front of your face?

I think there was some confusion as to whether Des actually traveled time or if he was looping through consciousness at different points in time. After "Flashes" tptb made some ambiguous comments regarding Desmond's ability and how he was looping. This added to the confusion, but the fact remains that one way or the other Des does travel time...

The comments in the podcast were anything but ambiguous. CC asked DL if Desmond time traveled, and he stated, "yes, I beleive he did". You can't be any more clear than that.

Yes, T, they did say that, but they didn't specify when/where exactly Desmond traveled through time (ie. did he time travel exactly what we saw in FBYE, or has he been time traveling through this loop for a while)

Maybe not time travel as such but some kind of teleportation system (linked to the power of the electro-magnetic field on/around the island), which allows 'Jacob' - and those in on the secret of how it works - access to and from certain portals with instant ease. Think Star Trek and "Beam me up, Scotty".

This would maybe partly explain Ben's metaphorical 'box', the 'rooms', the swift transporting of Juliet, Cooper and others to the island, the (possible) intention of lifting some targeted individuals off Flight 815 ("lists in three days"), or the plane's falling through a sort of rent in the portal system bringing unexpected extras to the island (Goodwin: "Nathan was not a good person")... and so on.

As with any other good quasi-science-borderlands-futuristic-experimental-make-believe notion (Carlton and Damon must know R L Stevenson's 'Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - allusions to which can be found passim in LOST), there are, however, bound to be side-effects and down-sides to this scientific project - male sperm counts soaring, pregnant females dying, former Russian soldiers entering a portal with mouth-foaming consequences etc.

I'm not making any great claims for this, er... 'theory', just musing on possibilities.

In the episode “The Brig” a lot can be told by facial expressions. More specifically Richards, Cindy’s, and one or two of the Others. Think back to the scene where Locke fails to kill his father, he steps down from the sacrificial pole and walks away in shame. The surrounding Others facial expressions have two sides to them. 1.) Some of the Others look at Locke with disappointment. 2.) Some of the Others look at Locke with a slight smile of approval (Cindy, Richard, and some unknown person). This one quick scene tells me that the Others will break off into two groups, Ben will have his followers, and Locke will has his own (including Richard, Cindy, maybe Tom, maybe Sawyer?). Just as 815 will split into groups, the two leaders being Jack and Desmond.

Now think back to the conversation on the hill top between Locke and Richard. Locke asks him something to the extent of “Why me?” … Now that’s when u need to go back and watch Richard’s reaction to that question, his face and the way he answers it means so much. He is tempted to tell Locke just how important he is and that some of the Others including himself have been waiting for him to join them. Instead, he looks away, bites his lip, and decides that Locke isn’t quiet ready to be told this information (think of Neo in the matrix). Locke is the one they’ve been waiting for, he just isn’t ready to hear that yet, so Richard chooses his words carefully, using the word “Special” when we know he means much much more then that.

The Others and the survivors would have to trust each other and team up in order to prepare against Dharma (who is coming because communications went down and the button isn't being pushed ((Naomi is Dharma)) )

I think it's interesting that both of these guys and that lunatic Kristin both made specific mention to the fact that "48" was a signifigant number of episodes. Very specific and puzzling.
Also, this can't be like the Truman show. I say can't because I want them to be original and do something different.
But the island moves. Or submerges and moves. Naomi said at one point the island wasn't there and then it was. Then you add the drug plane being unable to come from a far distance due to gas constraints, The Black Rock being FULLY on land, as if picked up and placed there....speaking of which, where's Danielle's ship? Methinks she's a LIAR.
I had a thought yesterday that perhaps she GAVE Alex to Ben as a sign of her free will, in order to get island secrets. Just like Locke had to kill his pappy in order for Ben to open up....just a few thoughts...

You know I should post Wikipedia`s whole description of "Land of the Lost"...

But I will just post this:

Many aspects of the Land of the Lost, including the time doorways and environmental processes, were controlled by the Pylons, metallic obelisk-shaped booths that were larger on the inside than the outside and housed matrix tables (a stone table studded with a grid of colored crystals). Uncontrolled time doorways result in the arrival of a variety of visitors and castaways in the Land.

And from IMDB on "Land of the Lost":

The producers came up with a very interesting idea to keep their viewers looking at the show during the hiatus between the first and second seasons. In the first season's final episode, the Marshalls discover that for some reason they aren't supposed to be there. Enik later informs them that due to a time disturbance that they never really arrived in the Land of the Lost and must go back in time and relive the accident that brought them there. By going back in time, they also would experience everything that happened to them up to that point in a sort of time loop.

-I don't know, kind of sounds a lot like a show I am currently watching :)

You are exactly right. There is ambiguity in how Desmond is travelling. Cuselof only confirmed that Desmond "changed things" by allowing Charlie to live. That does not constitute time travel.

In Flashes... he retained his memory from the hatch when he went back to the moment at the apartment. In Catch-22 it was unclear if there were any "flashes" in his flashback, possibly there was with the confrontation with his ex.

So.. something happens to the island that makes the show HAVE to end? Sounds like maybe my future-man is more plausible. Somehow someone has to make sure that the time ends when it is suppose to. Certain events have to happen. Ben knows what these events are. Is it to SAVE the world? Is Ben working towards this end.. or against it?

You are right. They did say Des traveled time. The ambiguity and confusion came when they were unclear as to exactly how he is doing so...

Ok, this is stupid and off topic but I think it's funny. What if Mikhail is the key to Lost and he must be saved or the world will end. To borrow from Heroes, the slogan could be, "Save the ear bleeder, save the world." I really don't feel like doing work right now so I thought I'd throw in a little humor.

DL: " . . . I think what's interesting is there are, there are certain things that happen the way that they used to happen, that he changed as a result of being in the past, that might sort of resonate over time, you know. Like getting hit in the face, instead of the bartender . . ."

The reference to Des changing things is clearly to what happens to him in London, not to saving Charlie. Not trying to be combative, just thought I'd mention it. :)

Not combative at all. Thank you for adding that because I haven't seen that quote before. The last refence I heard was in the podcast after Catch-22 where they confirmed that Desmond did indeed change things. I think that was in reference to a question about saving Charlie.

Where can I find that quote?

it has been announced that the show will end in 2010! I don't have time for this. This is my last season of lost.

I'm starting to think that Jacos is really Ben's imaginary friend :x

Don't have time? Its one hour out of awhole week....If u dont have that kinda time, then wtf is the point anymore?

The house you are standing in actually has a lot more rooms than you thought when you came into it. This brings me back to wondering why they haven't explored the hatches/stations more thoroughly. When Paulo was in the Pearl station, we see that Ben and Juliet entered from another "room". The medical supplies were hidden in a secret room in the Staff.

Some people seem to be taking this 'extra rooms' business a little too literally, I think.

'Extra rooms?! That means there must be places on the island we haven't seen yet!'

Something tells me that that isn't quite what they mean ...

Another clue from the Brig tells us that Ben know's of Richard's influence on Locke. Ben knows that Richard had a little chat with locke, the clue is again, in a facial expression and in the sharp words he uses...

Locke:(to ben as ben is walking away back turned heading out with the rest of the Others leaving locke behind): "If your trying to make me look bad infront of everyone or trying to Embarrass me-"

Ben: (doesn't turn around to even look at locke untill Locke says the word "embarrass" ((which is what Richard told him was Ben's intensions)) Ben then quickly whips around faces locke and raises his voice in question: "NOW where would you get a Ridiculous idea like that?!"

That's really all Ben needed to hear, he knows damn well this wasn't Locke's train of thought the moment Locke uttered those words. Ben's very quick, very sharp, he catches EVERYTHING. He knows Richard is now supporting Locke... So just watch out for Ben, the master chess player. Can't wait to see what's up his sleeve next.

Go back and re watch this, you'll quickly understand what im saying, and you'll see for urself!

In order to understand what this 'extra rooms' thing really means, we have to think of those occasions in the past on which the show has opened a door (that's a metaphorical door, folks) to new generic territory.

As I see it, this has only truly happened on ONE previous occasion. It's the moment in the pilot when they hear the monster in the jungle for the first time. The message which is broadcast at that moment says: this is not THAT type of story, it's THIS type of story. Everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) that has happened since, no matter how unexpected, has taken place within the confines of the generic territory which was established at that moment.

Now, imagine what it would be like if that moment hadn't occurred in the pilot, but three years in, after three whole seasons of hunting boar and arguing about water. THAT is what the game-changer will feel like, (or it should, anyway).

Clovis:
Excellent observation. But I think there was another, possibly two more instances equal to the first appearance of the monster. DEFINITELY Ms. Hawkings addressing Desmond in the Jewelry store about what he had done in a past timeline in FBYE was such a moment. POSSIBLY the reveal of the bound and gagged Anthony Cooper at the end of TMFT was another such moment.

I can just about accept the first, but I'm not sure about the second.

The appearance of Cooper at the end of Man from T was without doubt one of the most shocking cliff-hangers the show has ever given us. Maybe even THE most. I'm with you to that extent.

It seems to me, however, that there is nothing about that moment that cannot be explained *using the existing generic resources of the show*. (The asterisks are for emphasis; I'm not quoting anyone.) We are not required to redefine Lost's formal status (as we are when the monster is heard in the pilot) in order to account for it.

I'm chuffed to bits that you agree with my basic point, though!

I think the room deal is like saying "hey, there is still a lot more you don't know."

Here's a quick thought. Has anyone read Warren Ellis' excellent comic book Planetary? It's really a groundbreaking/genre-shattering work that functions as a self-styled "archaeology" of science fiction, superheroes and fantasy. The story has deep, deep internal mythology and is heavily self-referential, but like Lost it makes the tale that much more immersive and rich.

Anyway. About 1/3 of the way through the story, we learn the protagonist, Elijah Snow, is actually the head of the Planetary organization. He had gotten so good at unraveling the bad guys' mysteries, the bad guys wiped his memories and dropped him off in the middle of Nevada to grow old and die.

This model could be cut and pasted onto Lost's storyline, and work really well. It would support the entire Locke as Jacob theory. Locke had gotten so good as thwarting Dharma's efforts to explot the island, they wiped his memories and thrusted him back into society. His followers, the Others, were warned not to seek Lock out. But through fate and some strategic intervention, that's what happened.

With their leader back in the camp, the Others can resume their efforts to destroy Dharma, the hostiles or whatever.

Regardless, go check out Planetary. If you like Lost, you'll really enjoy Planetary.

(Actually, if you ask me, if there is another moment which equals the aforementioned moment in the pilot and which shows us 'rooms' that we didn't know were there, it's Naomi's revelation about the fate of flight 815. The trouble is, unlike the first appearance of the monster in the pilot, it only shows us the 'new rooms' if we're prepared to look for them: if we're NOT, we can still account for what she says by inventing conspiracy theories about fake planes and what not, thereby making use of the show's existing generic resources and nothing else. I think that what we can expect from the finale is an event which not only hints at the existence of 'new rooms', but also throws the doors wide open and switches on the lights.)

Clovis:

Nice point. I agree that a "game-changing" event should be some sort of conclusion that cannot be derived at given what we currently know of the Lost universe.

We may be able to infer or flat-out guess the "game changing" event, but not deduce it from what's occured in previous episodes.

The monster killing the pilot in the Pilot episode is one example. I agree with Ms. Hawkings addressing Desmond in the Jewelry, as well. Another game-changer, I would argue, was Locke's discovery of the Swan.

The discovery of the hatch in season one is one of the most important moments in the whole story. When Lost has finished its sixth and final season and we are able to look back over the whole thing, that moment will STILL stand out as one of the most important.

However ...

Thrilling as it was, there is nothing about that moment which made me think, 'Wow, I didn't think I was watching THAT kind of show ...' Remember, at that point, we already know there's a monster in the jungle. If you can have a monster in the jungle, you can have a mysterious hatch in the ground.

I'm with you on this one, Clovis.

We can all have our pet theories about the island's mysteries - and debate countless questions about how Cooper got there, was it really Jack's father in the jungle, a clone or phantasm of the mind... and so on - but the 'existing generic resources' were set, as in all gripping tales (dare I mention the Bible here?) with the introduction of the unknown, the inexplicable, the un- or super-natural element that is only akin to the physcho in 'Psyhco' in its ability to terrify.

The psycho can be explained: the timid taxidermist with a homicidal dark side. Likewise (I would contend), the presence of the Others, Penelope's and/or Naomi's involvement, the Dharma stations, VW vans, the Black Rock, four-toed statues and a whole other tranche of neat inclusions from red herrings to Easter eggs... all can be explained within the writers' generic resources. They've just not chosen to let us see it all yet. I think it was Carlton who said, way back, that this is a mosaic. Only when all the tiles are put down does the total picture emerge; so far we have been shown only (a little under) 60% of the tiles.

And then there are the off-the-cuff, ocasionally mischievous comments like Damon's today, in answer to Jeff Jensen's question whether we'd be seeing Mrs Hawking again: "Unless you travel back in time, like Mrs. Hawking does," Lindelof remarked.

Save me please from those who would interpet his comment as anything other than a semi-jest. It could mean nothing more than the fact that she has a history (don't we all?) or may appear in a later flashback or dream sequence. It does NOT mean Lindelof is admitting that LOST is about time travel. Neither is he that naive, nor should we be. Surely.

What remains is the mosaic. Yes, Clovis, you're spot on. The mosaic builders have put down some strange colours, defined (to themselves) their parameters, maybe started from several corners at once, added unexpected hues at unexpected moments, but still know exactly what they are doing.

I'm sure a few bemused observers looked up at Michaelangelo on his back atop a scaffold in the Cistine Chapel in the autumn of 1510 (by which time was probably about 60% of his way through a new project) and asked a similar question: "What's it going to be when it's finished?" The artist knew, of course. But maybe it's fair to say that, at that stage, it was ONLY the artist who truly knew.

Clovis:
Please don't misunderstand, I agree with you. And I'm also willing to agree that the Cooper reveal may not be of the same parameter defining status of the "monster's" first appearance. But I definitely feel that the Ms. Hawkings jewelry store scene should be placed on the same level.

....And yet you found time to read the comments, and write a post on a fan site....

Damon made that comment in the podcast after "Flashes Before Your Eyes." He was more or less just trying to clarify that the events of the episode didn't take place solely in Desmond's mind. Anyway, it's probably safe to say that we have confirmation that something has gone amok with time . . . but what exactly is happening, just in what way Des "time traveled," is up for grabs.

Behind the curtain there is a mirror...

So when Ben reveals Jacob to Locke he sees a magnificent and fully realised version of himself.

Then it's up to us to decide whether it's literal or a metaphor; whether it's a manifestation of cerberus, a psychic vision, or a future John Locke who has travelled back through time - perhaps as the result of some cataclysmic event at the end of season 6?

I have never posted on this site though I have enjoyed many months of reading. Anyway, while I am not as gifted as Doc, I have recently done a great deal of searching. During my journey through a site on Widmore labs, I found a great deal of info on our mysterious Dr. Candle. There is a lot in here which you will all hopefully enjoy, but advance apologies to anyone who feels this is not new news.

Hello - My name is Dr. Marvin Candle. What I am about to tell you is real, so real that it will affect every man, woman and child on this planet. It is a tale so often told in the scientific community, and as often discredited by those in positions of power, and quashed in the media by political alliances that do not look out for the betterment of mankind. My tale is different only because of the magnitude of the consequences that will be forced upon this planet, shaking the foundations of life as we know it.

I started my career in biology and animal studies on the fast track. During my latter college years I interned under Major Richard Benson at Holloman Air Force Base. There I worked with the space chimps and other chimps to determine the effects that weightlessness, G-forces, and being without the protection of the Earth's atmosphere would have on them, and eventually humans that would travel in space.

It was my recommendation that one especially bright chimp was chosen to be the first AstroChimp. Ham (named because his father was named Noah) was that special chimp that comes along every so often that seems to be able to master any task that you set before him. It was during my training and subsequent hiring at NASA that my ability to find the brightest and most eager primates was discovered. I wasn't with Ham during his final days, in fact it was about four years before he died that I saw him last. At least he seemed to be happy. When I visited him (my credentials allowed me access) he came right to me and didn't want to let go when it was time for me to leave. It is that kind of special bonding between simians and humans that kept me on this career path. My reputation among the scientific community also kept growing. It was at that point when I received the letter from Alvar Hanso asking me to join the Dharma team to work on projects that I could only dream about. The funding was unlimited, the laboratory would be of my own custom design. The project started out with the goal of enhanced intelligence but soon with the purchase and merging of another research laboratory life extension was added to the agenda. That began the downward spiral of my life as research was then guided by events beyond our control with a paranoid megalomaniac at the helm. Hanso wanted power, he wanted control, he was trying to create a race of beings that would give him exactly what he desired, world domination. The two agendas were merged to form the A. I. Sim Alliance, Artificial Intelligence Simian Alliance.

For Hanso there was no turning back, he was going forward with his plans and anyone who tried to stop him was crushed. Any who opposed him were destroyed. Any who tried to leave were never seen or heard from again. With the success of our experiments he didn't have to hire a goon squad, he was breeding them. I have details on the A. I. Sims on another page, please navigate there as the ultimate evil has been unleashed upon the planet. Sad to say, I had more than just a minor role in their development. But I had to carefully plan my escape if I wanted to stay alive. I have hopes to try to reverse the pure evil that has been released and to revive the true roots of my research, the intelligence enhancement of humans and primates.

It has been my understanding that Dharma grew out of an alliance headed by Alvar Hanso and a number of other businessmen whose dealings were not very public. Their real mission has never been revealed and I can only comment on the projects I have worked on as we have always been kept separate and interaction between the different research groups was forbidden.

From what I have been able to determine, outside my Life Enhancement research there was research on weaponry, remote viewing, marine biology (with military application), and controlling weather and a plethora of other research groups I wasn't privy to. The Life Enhancement groups original focus was on helping humans living longer, healthier lives and enhancing intelligence. This soon expanded to animals as well, especially simians. While through genetic manipulation we were able to extend the life span, and to a greater extent the intelligence of simians a couple of new factors changed everything.

The first event was the acquiring of another lab and their research. There was only one researcher that came with the package, but he soon disappeared. The jewel of the deal was an orangutan named Joop who was eighty years old at the time. He also excels in motor skills beyond what his species is suppose to ever achieve. The second event was a move to a remote island that Alvar called his private Garden of Eden. It was an island he said he inherited from his father Magnus Hanso. Magnus was a ship's captain and claimed this island as his own when he accidentally came upon during a freak storm. This island has strange properties, magnetic fluctuations I can't explain, and an almost invisible quality that seems to cloak it from view of satellites, aircraft and even ships.

The third event was administration of XNA to some of the test simians. The results of this is described in the AISims section. This development is likely to alter the course of human history, and that is a conservative estimate. XNA is derived from trees that are only located on this island. Alvar says they are from God and are the Trees of Life spoken of in the Bible. Not being raised a Christian this was a new concept for me, and Bibles being very scarce on the island I wasn't able to determine what scientific basis the Christian faith had on the matter. But from this I believe Alvar thinks he really owns the actual Garden of Eden and that it is God's destiny for him to save the Earth. He also seems to think he needs to be world ruler in the process and will not stop at anything to accomplish this goal.

All these factors combined allowed us to produce super humans and super simians. The XNA not only enhanced their physical attributes, but also enhanced their mental capacities to unimaginable extents, but only on some subjects. Other subjects went mad, had limbs wither away, or died an excruciating painful death. It was during one of these episodes of madness that one of the subjects damaged the nerves in one of my arms severely limiting the use of it. The side effects, the deaths, the questionable acquiring of test subjects was not a concern of Alvar, only his quest for world domination and spreading his AISims through out the planet occupied his mind. This finally prompted my escape from the island. I can't describe it as it is a flaw in the security system that others may want to take advantage of. The security system is worthy of its own book. We named it Smokey but it wasn't anyone's friend.

AISims are a combination of different lives. What do I mean by this? Maybe we better start with the basics of how they are created. In Alvar's personal "Garden Of Eden" there are unique trees that grow that give off a sap with unusually properties. It is from this sap that the various XNA formulas are derived. XNA4 is the formula used for humans that are needed for the acquisition stage. XNA3 is the formula used for the host simians. XNA1 and XNA2 are no longer produced from what I have gathered. There were some "incidents" associated with them, the secrets which I am not privy to and whose mere mention of them puts an unholy fear into the eyes of my fellow researchers a kind of fear I have never seen before.

The Hanso Foundation is always trying to recruit families of high importance in the government or community for their XNA4ALL program. Inside the Foundation this is known as the donor program. These families are started on an XNA4 regimen. The XNA4 has some euphoric qualities which makes the donors feel energetic and upbeat. What XNA4 is really doing is preparing their bodies for the transference process. One of the benefits of the XNA program is the family receives "monkey butlers" although most are really apes. They get one butler for each member of the family. Unbeknownst to them these butlers are on a XNA3 regimen which is preparing their bodies as hosts. During the next few months the two bodies (one human, one ape) are forming a paranormal mental and emotional link with one another. The XNA4 subject is giving off their aura to the XNA3 recipient who is absorbing the humans memories, thoughts, habits, knowledge, etc. Physical changes are also occurring, the XNA3 subject is actually metamorphosing into the XNA4 donors shape and size. During the final stages the family goes on a long extended vacation of 3 to 4 weeks long, curtesy of The Hanso Foundation. When they return the monkey butlers have disappeared...so it appears. In actuality the AISims have taken over the lives of the donors and fit right in without anyone noticing the change. The AISims have the donors memories, knowledge and now they have their life's.

I can't blame anyone for being skeptical, but know that this is true...there is not one army on this planet that does not have high ranking officers who are actually AISims. There is not one major metropolitan police force that does not have AISims within its ranks. There is not
a planet on this Earth that does not have AISims in high ranking positions including some of the most powerful nations on the planet. I know what you are asking, you've seen the jokes, the pictures...is HE an AISim? The answer is yes, now ask yourself, how could he not be? His term of office will be up soon, they have an agenda so things are happening fast and that may be their weakness. Another alarming situation is their beloved leader seems to have been cloistered, he is
AISims in the final stages

missing from public view. I have heard rumors that the AISims themselves may have revolted against him and given him XNA4 and my beloved Joop XNA3. I am looking into these rumors but have not substantiated or disproved them.

There are those in The Hanso Foundation who are obviously AISims, if you have spent time with simians you can tell. Their fearless leader Thomas Werner Mettelwerk is by far the cleverest AISim. He seems to appear out of nowhere, no past and calling himself a doctor. His donor was a doctor, a good friend of mine. He is even in the 1955 Harvard Alumni directory on page on page 977, under his real name, of course, which I am not releasing to protect his family.

Name changes are a way of life with Hanso, it helps cover their tracks. The AISims seem to have acquired that same talent. So who is Lydia Wales, or is it Lydia Welch, or Lydia Walsh? Then again who is Dr. Marvin Candle?
Please visit our friends at
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When I first came to The Hanso Foundation I was renamed Dr. Mark Wickman, then Dr. Merlin Weatherwax, then Dr. Melvin La Flame, and finally Dr. Marvin Candle...a name which I keep to this day. I leave this post with a final warning....The Hanso Foundation is attempting to rule the planet by replacing all human life with AISims. This is not a fairy tale, this is not an urban legend. It is happening right now in your city, in your town and in your neighborhood. We must spread the truth and prepare to fight the onslaught. The AISims are no friend to humankind or to simians. I just pray that this message doesn't reach you too late.

A lot of you are really overthinking this, posting extensive theorys about time trave etc. etc. etc. i nthe comments section.
The fact is that the cast only knows whats going on up to that point in their scripts. So when you say "look at his facial expression!!!!!" its pretty much a fluke. Richard or anyone else isnt making significant facial expressions because hes as clueless as Locke as to what will happen in the next episode. The cast is kept just as much in the dark as we are.

I'm speechless

i really like these two, they play off each other really well in a slapstick sought of way

I think theres no doubt obviously that desmond is travelling or at least connected with time travel in some way, however i don't think this is the structure of the show and this is just a desmond event,desmonds character was written in to season 3 and i think all this time travelling stuff was written especially for him, most probably as a result of all the fan time travel conspiracies out there already to give them something to go on, i think thats why desmond had a higher calling in life and was not meant nor intended for the priesthood or monks, when he said he felt as though he had a higher calling in life or words o that effect!

M-O-O-N that is one hell of a comment i am now going to attempt to read it!

hhm that was a good read, i guess that would explain how they seem to have a strength stronger than normal, ie ethan

This hsow is a waste of time. The producers have not even thought about the closing of the story nor reasoned the explanation for the mysteries on the island yet. So what is the point of speculating?? The work is not even completed yet. All the producers want at the time is to keep the secrets ambiguous to maintain the viewers and make as much money as possible. So, everytime a secret is revealed, another two will arise. There is no point in making prediction or theorizing. The story has not been worked out yet and will only end three years from now. Good luck waiting.

by the way, I have seen the episode at a screening in chicago yesterday. The much anticipated Jacob is none other than Walt.

by the way, I have seen the post about the guy who's supposibly seen the episode at a screening in chicago yesterday. My much anticipated responce is none other than bullshit.

.....Best theory I've heard so far:

Let's go back to shortly after the turn of the
Twentieth century, the days of Einstein and other early theoretical physicists. This was the dawn of the age of quantum mechanics, which provided new understanding and insight into physics at the sub-atomic level. New mathematics described the behavior of the tiny particles that make up all of matter in the universe. The math was clearly described in terms of numbers, symbols, formulas... however the application to nature as we know it was strange, weird, bizarre.

It was very difficult to wrap the human brain around many of the concepts of quantum mechanics, and the math alone was inadequate to explain the problems. Thus, physicists and mathematicians turned to "Gedanken Experiments," German for Thought Experiments. Applying the known concepts of quantum mechanics to situations in the "real world" allowed a conversation to take place in a way most anybody could (sort of) understand.

Before I lose you, here is an example. In the mathematics of quantum physics, time travel is THEORETICALLY possible. One of the most famous Gedanken Experiments is the Grandfather Paradox. If you could travel back in time, could you kill your grandfather? Logic tells you that no, you could not, for if you did, you would not exist. (Pause here and consider why Locke insists that "he can't" kill his father, he needs somebody else to do it.) The beautiful thing about Gedanken Experiments is that they are both scientific and philosophical, perfect fodder for a creative writer. In the case of the Grandfather Paradox, while they logic is clear, the actual experience of it is a mystery. Imagine actually standing there in the past, holding a loaded gun to the head of your grandfather... what would actually prevent you? "Something" would, some unknown mechanism of physics... and that is where the writers of "Lost" imagine for us.

"Lost" is a grand Gedanken Experiment, a test of science and philosophy. It asks the question, What if time travel were not only possible, but real, with technology developed in a manner as realistic and consistent with known theoretical physics as possible? And to make it even more dramatic, What if you could travel back in time, AND NOT KNOW IT? The passengers of Flight 815 have done exactly that, and the writers have made the audience go along with them, sharing the same sense of confusion and mystery.

Let's talk about what we know about time travel today. We are not talking about cheesy movies of the past, where one can travel back to the age of dinosaurs or the middle ages. In fact, in the "real" science of time travel, a few things are known by the constraints of physics and quantum mechanics.
There is a conceptual model of a real time machine, and it works something like this:

A time machine must have two parts, essentially two portals, connected by a wormhole (or black hole or whatever you want to call it). Door #1 is built alongside Door #2. Door #1 is allowed to continue along the "present"
timeline, while Door #2 is encapsulated in a bubble within space-time, thus separated from the present timeline. This would require a great amount of energy and technology obviously unknown today... but thanks to the writers of "Lost," it has been solved by Dharma Industries. The amount of separation would be only slight to begin with... say, 108 minutes. Since Door #1 exists in the present timeline, it can safely be located anywhere (Dharma headquarters?). Door #2, now operating in a different place in space-time, in the past, must be safely located in a remote location, for any type of interaction with it from the outside could be catastrophic.

There is a very important concept in time travel here, which is that you can NEVER travel back further in time than the creation of your time machine; Hence the impossibility of visiting the dinosaurs, etc. Now, if the two doors of your time machine were separated by only 108 minutes at the initial "event", but then allowed to just sit there, then both timelines would progress at the same pace, forever separated by only 108 minutes. Traveling to the past, but only by 108 minutes, would not be very interesting. Much more exciting would be to keep Door #2 back at the original time of its inception, while Door #1 continues to move forward in time. You could do this by continually "resetting" the clock on Door #2. Over time, the separation between the two doors would grow and grow, from minutes, to hours, to days, to years.

If you actually had the technology to achieve time travel in this manner, there are MANY profound questions you would have to test and answer in order to be confident that you could safely operate the time machine without catastrophically altering the future. The Grandfather Paradox is the most obvious, but actually only one of many questions.

ANSWER #1: What is the Dharma Initiative? It is the building and testing of a time machine, as described above. Door #1 is at the Dharma Headquarters, Door #2 is on the Island in the remote South Pacific.

The question isn't, Where is the Island? The question is, When is the Island? The answer to that depends on how long ago, in the present timeline, the time machine was created... approximately 14 years ago, I believe.

ANSWER #2: Why must the button be pushed every 108 minutes? This "resets"
the clock of Door #2 of the time machine, essentially holding it at the time of its inception in the relative past. If allowed to pass 108 minutes on the clock, then the time machine will lose the ability to reset itself. Why, then, must it be pressed by a person, and not just programmed to reset itself? This is because the controllers at Door #1 do not have control over Door #2 in the past, and should disaster strike, and nobody is left alive in the past at Door #2, it should be allowed to pass 108 minutes and no longer reset. ANSWER #3: What happened when the clock was allowed to pass 108 minutes? Door #2 of the time machine lost the ability to reset, and will now continue to progress along a timeline into the future, locked at approximately 14 years separation from Door #1.

What are some of the other critical questions, like the Grandfather Paradox, that must be answered when considering time travel? Here is a great one:

What if a childless woman travels back in time and conceives a child? ANSWER
#4: A childless woman cannot travel to the past and conceive a child, because if she did, she would not have been a childless woman. In "Lost", both mother and child die before the birth, thus preserving the timeline and laws of nature. Perhaps the Others do not fully understand this, and brought in fertility doctor Juliet to see if they can overcome this obstacle.

Consider another:

What if a child travels back to a time before he or she was born? Perhaps nothing... but what if the child dies in the past, before being born? Again, impossible. ANSWER #5: The Others abduct children on the Island to protect them at all costs, for they cannot allow the catastrophic violation of the laws of nature of a child dying before being conceived.

And yet another:

If you travel to the past, will you be the "you" of the present timeline when you arrive, or the younger "you" of the past, or some combination of the two? I do not know, but I believe this offers insight into why John Locke can walk on the Island despite being paralyzed. ANSWER #6: Locke can walk not because the Island has powers to cure, but because he has traveled back to a time BEFORE he was ever paralyzed. He is somehow a blend of the Locke of the present and the Locke of the past.

Who is Ben? I believe he is the creator of the time machine. The Others are his associates living in the time-space bubble around the Island and Door #2 of the time machine in the "past." They are managing it and testing the effects of time travel, and strictly controlling who exits this bubble into the outside world.

How does one arrive at the Island? There are two methods of traveling to the site (and time) of the Island. First is the controlled method via Door #1 at Dharma Headquarters. It is not via plane, submarine, or any other traditional method of transportation.

The other method is in the accidental collision with the time-space bubble that surrounds the Island, as happened with Oceanic Flight 815, the Portuguese woman's helicopter, etc. Despite the many theories that abound in online forums, the Others did not know that Flight 815 was coming or going to crash at the Island. It was a chance encounter. It was a disaster that created a paradox... what happens to a plane that crashes in the present, while entering the past? This leads to the question of whether the passengers are alive or dead, answered by talking about a cat.

Schrodinger's cat, to be specific. Again, quantum mechanics can be very strange. One of the strangest behaviors in particle physics is known as Superposition, which is the ability of a particle to occupy two different states simultaneously (like up and down, left and right, here and there, etc.). In the world we know, you cannot be both here and there, but in particle physics, a world of probability, chance, and duality, you can. How can one imagine this? Another great Gedanken Experiment was conceived, as follows:

Place a cat in a sealed, steel box, along with a bottle of poison. In addition, a radioactive element is placed within the steel box. The decay of this radioactive element triggers a hammer, which breaks the bottle, releasing the poison and killing the cat. For the observer, outside of the box, you do not know when this radioactive decay happens. Because of the laws of Superposition, the radioactive element can occupy both states simultaneously, for the briefest moment. For that blink in time, the bottle is both broken and intact... the cat is both dead and alive, at the same time. This is a puzzle of science, but more important perhaps is the philosophical question of what does it mean to be both dead and alive?

ANSWER #7: The passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 are dead at the bottom of the ocean. AND they are ALIVE on the Island. They are both dead and alive. I told you that you would love this one. Since they are alive in the "past" of the Island's timeline, can they return to the present in which they are dead? I guess that is the ultimate question that we will have to watch the show to find out.

A suggestion of an answer is found in Locke's/Sawyer's father. We were led to believe that he died in a car accident, and finds himself here on the Island. Of course he would think he's in hell! We believe that somehow Locke "willed" him here, but that was actually never said on the show. In fact, Ben said to Locke, "you brought him here." Perhaps what he means is this:

ANSWER #8: Locke's father did not die in the accident. I believe that we will find soon that Locke is going to leave the Island. The question that nobody asked Locke's father was when did the accident happen? See, Locke is going to return to the "present" timeline, and is going to pursue his father. He is going to find him, perhaps he is even going to cause his accident. He is going to drug and kidnap him, unable or unwilling to kill him by himself. He is somehow going to get him to Door #1 of the time machine and send him to the Island, where he already knows that Sawyer will kill him. Locke is going to "bring him here" to the Island... he just hasn't done it yet. When he is on the "outside" in the present, why is he going to do this? Because he has to, because it is destiny... for on the Island, it has already happened. You know Locke loves destiny.

I could go on and on. Why is there a zoo with polar bears? ANSWER #9: The animals are on the Island for testing the effects of the various paradoxes associated with time travel. Perhaps another reason is that by keeping and preserving endangered animals, like polar bears, within this bubble in the past, there is a resource for their recovery should they become extinct in the future. Consider it a Noah's Ark.

How do the Others know so much about the passengers of Flight 815? ANSWER
#10: The Others have had perhaps years, with Dharma Industries in the present timeline at Door #1, to research each of the individuals, and transmit this information to the Island. To the audience and the survivors of 815, it seemed like the Others instantly knew about them. However, it likely required years of research to compile the files.

There are still mysteries that remain, and stories that we do not know how they will play out. With this explanation, though, the behavior of the Others is understood. They must protect the timeline AT ALL COSTS. That makes them seem evil to the survivors of 815, but in reality their intentions are to prevent catastrophe.

There are many other stories I haven't touched, but they are all consistent with this basic theory. This includes Desmond's apparent "time loop" he is experiencing, and many others.

So there it is. Or, I'm out of my mind. Time will tell.

Steve

Theory by SD Wynn (Copied from the theories section at Dark ufo.)

Just read SD Wynn's immaculate conception.

Awesome.

This is the only 'time-travel' theory that fits all the known mysteries - except perhaps Smokey, who doesn't get a mention... but, hey, doesn't a patch of temperamental fog suddenly seem a bit-part player alongside what happens to the human beings in Wynn's analysis?

Very good Dolbach, I predicted that very thing two weeks ago. Locke pulls back the "curtain" (or opens the door) and he is looking at his reflected image in a mirror. The Man Behind the Curtain sets up Through the Looking Glass.

I can't find the words to properly express how much I enjoyed that! Very well done.

An addition to the SD Wynn theory:

At the end of The Brig, when Sawyer asks if it's true that Locke fell out of a window and was paralyzed.

Locke answered "Not any more."

That plays into the Grandfather Clause trickiness. If the island is in the past, and the Others summoned Cooper to the island, and then Cooper died on the island in the past - then Locke would never have been able to be thrown out a window and paralized.

All we need to confirm this is for Jack to examine Locke and find two kidneys instead of the expected one.

My compliments to SD Wynn. A very plausable theory. I can see why you are a fan. Thank you for sharing it here.

WOW

Hats off to you Sir!

MOON where did this information come from?
Wow 2 great posts in this thread, my head is spinning again

Fan Of,
One small problem. If Penny and the artic Brazilians in the final scene of the S2 finale were (as we were led to believe) in "present off-island time" --- and therefore in the timeline of door #1, she sure didn't look 14 years older than when she and Des parted in 2001. Of course I suppose SDW could respond that "with enough money and enough determination" she could manage to appear ageless.

Very well done. I do not know if SD Wynn would lurk here, but I would like to ask some questions about his general theory of eveything.

For example, the same quantum mechanics as theorized by Einstein would prevent someone from traveling in time before a moment when that person existed. Even if it were possible to time travel, one could not travel before their birth.

In the Grandfather paradox, it would not matter if it were you pulling the trigger or you caused someone else to pull the trigger. Wouldn't the result would be the same? no more you.

Using your example of Locke, if Locke travels back in time to a point that is before his paralysis, would the Locke off island no longer exist until the time is restored?

Using Schrodinger's cat scenario, wouldn't it be more logical for the island to exist not in the past, but outside of time. A point of suspended time. Where one would exist without moving forward or backward in time. Wouldn't that could be the only way that one could be both dead and alive?

Plus how does Desmond's experience of time on the island line up with what happened in the outside world up to the point of the fail-safe activation?

Ben is Jacob and Jacob is Ben! Hence the Wizard of Oz Reference.

Ben created Jacob to be the all-powerful, all-knowing 'wizard' just like the little regular nothing of a guy created the awe inspiring wizard of oz. Ben minipulates all The Others through his imaginary Jacob.

That's what I think!

This is really off topic, but how often do they film scenes from LOST in LA? Matthew Fox was just on Leno and he mentioned that he had been filming scenes from the finale in LA until 4:30 AM the night before. I thought they filmed everything in Hawaii and this seems odd.

or maybe it means that you didn't expect so many doors in the house, and now you got LOST

The unified theory of Lost?

The Jacob Reveal (The Man Behind The Curtain):

The Others set up camp near living quarters called "the old place" which consists of a few small bungalow-type structures with a larger one just off to the side in a heavily wooded section. We can also make out other cracked pillars similiar to the one that Anthony Cooper was strapped to previously.

John Locke makes his way to the new encampment with his sacrifice slung over his shoulder. The Others take notice as he comes sauntering in and drops the tarp-covered body on the ground at Ben's feet. Ben looks surprised but Alpert seems pleased that John has returned. John Locke calls Ben on his promise and Ben takes him to the larger bungalow to meet "Him" who will explain all.

John enters a room where Jacob is. Jacob is situated near the back of the room in the darkness, but we can make out what appears to be a male silhouette. A light shines on John and the voice of Jacob tells him to close the door behind him. We see Ben standing in the doorway and he looks upset as the door slowly closes in front of him.
We learn in flashbacks near the end of the episode that Richard Alpert lives up to his namesake as he is revealed to be the mysterious Jacob who has even Ben fooled.

The Game Changer (Through The Looking Glass)

Set-up: We see various Jack flashbacks in Australia as he's collecting his fathers body for transport back to the U.S. Nothing special, with the exception that he requests to look at the hospital records and notices his fathers death was not alcohol related.

Key forward to the last flashback as Jack remembers something right after the plane crash but before he woke up in the jungle. We see from Jack's viewpoint that he's in some sort of large complex surrounded by a dozen or so people who are not the Others we've come to know (they're wearing tan DHARMA jumpsuits with the familiar logo which has an eye in the center).

He's then rolled on a medical stretcher thru a long corridor flanked on each side by two females (blond, brunette) and one male (older, mid-forties and stern looking). He's taken outside from what appears to be another hidden station (rabbit hole) that's never been discovered or mapped, and we can see Vincent lying on the ground and he appears to be knocked out as they pass him by. Jack's eyes are barely open and he seems to be in pain from his injury, but he's able to hazily watch at the three mysterious people lift him off the stretcher and place him on the ground. They inject him in the neck and he falls asleep. The next part we see a close-up of Jack's eye as he wakes up just as he did in the pilot.

Meanwhile other events are unfolding realtime. Something is flying above the island surveying various areas that we're familiar with. At first we're led to believe it's a rescue from Naomi's ship but it's not. From an aerial viewpoint above we can see an outline of the EYE station opening below and the same people who took Jack are standing outside, looking up as if they're waiting.

BTW, the real Richard Alpert later became very spiritual and created the and created the HANuman Foundation.

He is well-known for his association with Timothy Leary at Harvard University in the early 1960s, both having been dismissed from their professorships for experiments on the effects of psychedelic drugs on human subjects.

Maybe this is one big drug hallucination!

Glad some of you have enjoyed my findings just as much as I did. I apologize for the formatting but it was a lot to paste.

Check out the following site which is where I found everything and browse, you may find things I missed:

http://widmorelaboratories.com

The piece on Magnus is interesting too, and notice that the schematic of the Black Rock does not locate the "Brig". Not sure what that means, probably nothing.

All this just brings me to a question as we near the end of Season 3. Could this be the beginning of the next LOST Experience??? Sounded like DC were anti-LOST Experience after one Pod-Cast, but who knows what you can take as truth or misdirection when it comes to them.

If this is the begining of the next LOST Experience with Candle at the helm (a la Rachel), I'm conflicted with anticipation and the potential for frustration.

C-
I saw Fox on Leno last night too and thought that the "filming in LA" comment was odd as well. However, the more I thought about it, I am convinced that it veriries my theory that they were shooting the third installment of the Jack/Desmond/Penny crossings at the stadium location (looks like LA). In the S1 Finale, Jack encountered Des while running the steps inside the stadium. In the S2 finale, Penny drives up as Des is arriving at the stadium and we see Jack walking into the stadium in the background. The scene they were shooting night before last will be at the same location but will reveal that Penny was really meeting Jack there and just happened to "find" Desmond in the process. She was actually going there to meet Jack. The "working relationship" between Jack and Pen will be the big reveal. Jack was placed on the plane by Penny to find out what exactly her Dad was involved in with regard to the island. When the Brazilians called her at the end of the S2 finale, they said, "we found IT." "IT" meaning the island. She isn't looking for Des, she is looking for the island...and Jack. Finding Des there in the process will again be an accident. And Naomi is not working for Pen, she is working for Daddy Widmore who knows Des is on the island screwing things up and he has sent her there to kill Des before Penny accidentally finds him, or he screws something else up.

The rooms analogy only had to do with if you thought you knew what was going (but really didnt) well now you are really not gonna know what is going on...

Only problem is that is a fan site. Information on that site is just as speculative as anything you would read here, especially from me.

that was awesome.. what website did you get that from???

Off Topic but the conversation about M. Fox shooting in L.A. prompted my thoughts on this...

Did we ever find out who the couple in L.A. was that Claire was giving the baby to?

Could Christian Sheppard have set up the encounter with the psychic? Was the baby to go to Jack or even Jacks wife and her new man?

I'm not saying that this is why M. Fox was in L.A. during THIS shoot, I agree that he was most likely there because of the Desmond/Penny encounter but the L.A. thing and Claire just keeps leading me back to Jack.

All the talk of the Grandfather Paradox brought to mind a quote from one of Spider Robinson's books (Lady Slings the Booze). The context is a conversation regarding the time travel in which one of the book’s characters says, "Well, I'm not really a big sci-fi fan, but the way I get it, a time traveler goes back and forth in time, and edits history. Like he goes back to the past and shoots his own grandfather to see what'll happen. Only I never understood why they always pick on the grandfather... I mean, how can you be positive your grandfather has anything to do with your genes? Maybe Grandmaw put one over on him. Shoot your Mom would be my plan: you can be fairly sure she's a relative."

Now that isn’t particularly relevant to Lost, but this fictional conversation got my mind started on a Lost-related tangent. In the larger conversation from which I quoted, they were discussing the difference between a time traveler and a guy with a time machine. What they have in this book is a guy with a time machine; he is able to slow time and everyone else down but still move around himself - a la Hiro from Heroes. So what if this concept is applied on a larger scale to the entire island? We’ve heard comments about, ‘They haven’t been on the island as long as they think they have.” I like the idea of there being a machine/series of machines on the island that mess with time in some way. The first thought that comes to my head is the idea of slowing time everywhere except the island... but that presents all sorts of physical problems, not the least of which is that the days on the island would be massively long. With the implosion of the hatch, maybe one of (or perhaps the only) machine was destroyed, throwing whoever happens to be nearby (Desmond) in a crazy romp around time. The mechanics of such a machine... well, I don’t know. I’m going to leave my theory totally vague at the moment... after all, I’m not a major theorizer, just someone who wants to get their mind off their work for a moment or two.

If Locke literaly brought Cooper to the island, then how would the man from Tallahassee be available to Ben at that moment? Does the island encompass the entire 14 year span a la Dr. Manhatten/Desmond (ie. all time and space within the 14 year difference between doors is happening on the island all at once)? Locke would have had to have gone through this already for him literaly bringing Cooper to be true. We can see through Desmond's flashes that this is a sincere possibility. I like how this idea ties in superposition to explain some things. It would bring about a choice between death and life on the island (or perhaps figuring out a way to make sure the crash never happens). There is so much to wrap your brain around here. I LOVE IT...

Just a quick thought....I have been under the impression that Ben had some problems with Jacob. I mean, apparently Jacob can cure cancer-but Ben still had it, and was none to happy to learn that. If Jacob and Ben were tight, then why would he allow Ben to suffer, and possibly die from something that he had proven to be able to cure. (by curing Juliet's sister.) Also, The line of sand that Locke sees in The Man Behind The Curtain, I was thinking that it was probably gun powder. And Locke knows it. Possibly Danielle's doing, and she's going to ignite the dynamite and blow up the others. It has to do something with her. She made too obvious of an appearance in The Brig with the dynamite for it to be coincidental.

Hey, doc. Can you shoot me a quick e-mail explaining why my comments got dinged? Thanks.

I remember when Desmond reappeared on the island he said that he couldn't leave he kept coming back to the island. I had forgotten about this fact and was wondering if anyone has a theory to explain why this "bubble" causes everything to crash and why they cannot escape it.

Right on with the quantum mechanics SD. Since most of quantum is philosophy at this point, the Lost writers can have a field day with any idea. They do not have to cheese out with "It was all just a dream" or it is all in Vincent's head. They can explain it with semi-pluasible science.
The time travel idea is plausible with quantum physics as well as the exsisting in two places at one time. If it were possible to travel back in time, your other self would still be where ever it is supposed to be, doing what ever you did back then. I do not think future you would change back to the condition of past you. For instance, if I have a scar and were to travel back in time, I would still have the scar. If I found my past self before the time of the scar my past self would obviously not have the scar, but as future me, I should still have it. Now if I altered history and did something to prevent me ever getting the scar, I imagine it would just disapear right before my eyes. This then contradicts the idea that Locke can walk simply because he has gone back into the past to a time before his fall. I still like to think that he can walk because of the island's special properties or something supernatural (like Jacob).

The extra rooms reference may be to the Heinlein short story about an architect who builds a house as a 4-D tesseract:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html

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