amazing episode

It was plausible to think that Locke was in the coffin prior to this episode, but after the events that unfolded in the finale I began to have doubts. How the heck does he get off of the island after becoming the leader of The Others? Does he move it as well?!

This season went so well that I guess I can forgive them for the atrocity that was Season 3.

I feel like the only reasonable way to explain John's death, is that he actually did commit suicide, yet he did it on the island. I think he felt he needed to take drastic measures to get the others to return to the island.

HEY NOW! Don't forget Claire's ghostly message from Jacob's cabin to Kate! Which makes me wonder: If Ben wants everyone to come back does that include Aaron? And what about Ji Yeon? She was inside Sun when she left. And after the whole does the baby count as one of the Six thing this season will that be the new debate for season 5?

That was awesome. But way too much information. I'm gonna have to watch that several times. Claire was creepy again. Good for Des, I was worried about him.

Daniel Dae Kim: "Now don't drive drunk, kiddos!"

Honestly, though. Was his drunk driving the result of getting the news he was getting blowed up, or vice versa?

I guarentee that the first "back to the island" scene in season 5 will feature faraday's dingy plucking jin from the smoking wreckage and booking him back to the island before it dissapears.

Who put the frozen wheel there? Was it pre-dharma? Black rock era machinery?

I think Sun is going to be a Villian of sorts in this next season...

My favorite scene by far was when Christian "released" Michael from the holds of the island. The island was keeping him from dying for a while but it obviously did not have any use for him anymore.

Compared to the other season finales, this one was much more heart-captivating, emotional and as well pleasing. I remember with the season 4 finale I was much more riled up on the edge of my seat screaming and yelling when the Others were being wiped out by the Losties while this one simply kept you thinking of endless possibilities.
I do beleive that Michael already has served his purpose and indeed has perished. With the shape of Christian Shepard saying to him “Michael, you can go now" was like an evil spell broken of its curse. Michael was "released" by the island and finally was able to die.
I want to keep thinking Jin is still alive. My theory with Jin is that he probably might be picked up by Daniel and the other survivors that were on the raft on there way to the Freighter.
Overall, this finale was absolutely spectacular. Can't wait for season 5. Thanks to all my Lost brothers and sisters on here who watch the show with great dedication as I have. Most of all thanks to the designer of this great website!

Doc, can you draw any connections between the similarities of the hatch implosion sky vs. the island moving sky? They seemed pretty similar to me. Another interesting clue comes to mind: When Ben gave Michael the box to use on the freighter (The "Bomb"), the flag that popped up said "Not Yet!". Could this be an indication that Ben had the ability to look into the future and know that the freighter would eventually be destroyed via explosion? If that were true, then it could give some insight into the possible "powers" of the island that the leader of the Others could command. If you could look into the future...you could rig a lottery...obtain 3.25 million dollars, or manipulate lives in such a way as to bring about the future that you wanted.

Another interesting item of note: If the ghosts are working in conjunction with the island, which Christian Shephard speaking for Jacob seemed to me to indicate, than
1) Why did Libby tell Michael not to open that bomb in the first place...even if it was a dud
2) Why is Clair appearing in Kate's dreams and telling her not to bring Aaron back...it seems to contradict itself.

If Jack wasn't supposed to leave...but Aaron was..then is it possible that Jack returning to the island could put into motion a chain of events that could allow the current events (i.e. everything that has gone wrong since they have escaped...Sayid is a Hitman..Sun is a Bitter Widow...Hurley is Insane...Jack is a suicidal drug addict) to turn out differently?

Just food for thought? Thoughts?

P.S.
Has anyone gotten an email response from www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com yet?

-How could they do this to Locke?
-Im thinking he (Locke) could be jacob.
-Jack has ruined everything and deserves to be a bearded drunk.
-Walt looked real old.
-Christian Sheppard keeps showing up, whats his deal?
-8 months till the next lost, sucks.
-How is Locke going to get off the Island?
-where were Bernard and Rose that whole episode?

Apparently when Ben Teleported after turning the wheel, he also went forward in time about 10 months.

Maybe by taking Locke back to the Island, it will work its magic a resurrect him from the dead. Stranger things have happened. I agree that Daniel probably does pick up Jin but of course his wife will only believe him dead. The same goes for Juliet and Sawyer believing that both their loves,Jack and Kate, perished in the explosion. I hate to say it but even though he redeemed himself, I am still glad to see Michael gone. Can't wait until next season.

Long time reader first time commenter... Not a lot to add right now, this episode blew my mind. But for the Octagon Global Recruiting stuff the location and dates line up for San Diego Comic Con so I'm sure they are going to do some cool stuff to promote the show and give out some teasers at that event. Somebody's got to go and post for us!

At the end of the finale, I was frozen, mouth agape, tears welling up, and speechless! Waaahhhhh!!!
If Locke is "very dead", then what about these ponderings? :
-The duplicate #15 bunnies...could that be another Locke in the casket?
-Why did "casket Locke" have a fake name?
-A phrase that has had variations (I think) and has struck me as "odd" : When Charlie appeared to Hurley and said, "I'm dead and I'm here"
...Have loved this site since I found it, and this is my first post..thanks to whomever runs/writes/maintains!
One last question...what the @#$% am I supposed to do during the hiatus?!?

Remember the whole Jack's dead dad in the coffin?? When they crashed on the island he came back to life and escaped from the coffin.

They're all going to go back and Locke is going to come back to life. Just like Jack's Dad. I think Jack's Dad is now the leader of the island.

Lost is too good man!!

Ooh-one more thing:
Didn't Lockes casket look an awful lot like Christian's empty casket in the cave from Season 1? Just food for thought...

Well that was a great episode.
So many questions and not enough answers, But heres the phone call with Kate that was backwards and is reversed for everyone.

Link

Testing, testing 123

hmmm, can't put my finger on who made the phone call to Kate..."The island needs you, you need to go back before it's too late." 8 months of torture await me...ugh.

I just read the Wiki on the real Jeremy Bentham, knowing a character is usually given a name for a particular reason. Something that caught my attention was the part about the auto-icon. My mind is making some connections. I think I'm just tired right now, and getting a little silly, but I'm imagining a comical version of next season where Ben and Jack are doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" thing with Locke's body to get him back to the island.

;)
teehee

It looks as if Charlotte might have been born on the island or something. Any thoughts on that. The asian guy said why would she leave after trying so hard to get back. Maybe she was on the island as a child? Lots of mystery there.

Some thoughts:

I think Charlotte is Annie. Didn't little annie have red hair? Could explain how she was born there.

Locke made it off the island the same way Ben did. He had to move the island to protect it from some other invasion, probably Widmore / Sun? based.

Hate to get a little sci fi here, but I think the Orchid is at the center of the earth. At one point Locke says how deep is this station and Ben pauses and then replies, "Deep". The wheel could be the very center and turning it is turning the earth on it's axis.

Did anyone else think when Keamy was still alive that they had time travelled to the past and had to kill him all over again?

The island doesn't want John back. That's why Claire is running interference trying to get Aaron to not come back. If the island still needed Locke he could not have been dead.

Great episode. I wish we could time travel 8 months to the future and kick off another season right now.

Can someone tell me what the song playing in jacks truck was? I love that song, and now can't recall. Thanks.

So much to think about. I defintly am leaning towards the island being a piece of antimatter, especially now that it was clarified that antimatter (dark matter) does play a role in the lost universe. I definitly believe this will pan out with a lot of Quantum physics in play.

In regards to Sawyer jumping from the copter, was anyone else struck by the fact that Sawyer had "sacraficed" himself for Kate and the other Oceanic Six and then believes that they all vanquished on the freighter, sense the copter was too land there? This struck such an emotinal chord in me! I love the irony of that.

Great episode. Seeing Locke in the coffin just killed me. Gawd I love that character.

did anyone else catch MINIBUS DRIVERS on the job openings for that octagon recruiting commercial????

oh yeah, check this theory out.. it seems to have been correct for the past two seasons...

http://www.timelooptheory.com/

and let us not forget abaout ComicCon 2007's premier of the Orchid orientation film

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Orchid_Orientation_film

In the pilot episode when Jacks wakes up (some distance from the actual crash) Is his nose bleeding as if he had shifted in time and thus waking up on the island in a time loop scenario and not inflicted said nose bleed from the crash??

read through the comments not sure if this was mentioned. If the oceanic 6 all knew the Locke was Jeremy Bentham. Wouldn't we all have to assume Locke was off the island for a while, made contact with the O-6 in order for them to all know who he was? I do not remember ever hearing the name Jeremy Bentham until last nights show. Locke probably gets off the island and tries to convince the rest of them that they need to return and dies in the process

I loved the finale, it was probably one of the best episodes in the series. After thinking about it for a while, I noticed some things that slipped under the radar while all the exitement was going on.

THE THINGS WE ALL MISSED FROM THE FINALE:

-I think they just killed off Rose and Bernard, and we didn't even realize this. I just thought about this two hours after the finale ended. Seen as they had their own flashback episode, I think they deserved a better farewell.

-Funny how this is the second time Damon and Carlton team up Sawyer and Juliet at the end of a season. Are they trying to start something here? Interesting.

-Michael's return to the show was very anti-climactic. I thought they would not kill him off soley for the fact that he just got back. I guess they had bigger plans for him pre-strike.

-Damon and Carlton still owe us a Rousseau flashback and an explanation to Libby, two things they promised for season 4. I don't see how they can write that into the next two seasons, but they absolutely have to.

-I don't think Claire will be back next season....shame. I can accept that, but they better not end the show without explaining if she's dead or if she just thought it was a good idea to follow her dead father into a creepy cabin and abandon Aaron.

-The writers still suck at killing off main characters. Boone and Shannon were very untimely death. Libby was killed off without explaining the huge mystery behind her character. Ecko's death came out of nowhere. Charlie's was ok, but this finale? Jesus. Michael leaves after three episodes and a total of 50 lines spoken in season 4. Jin deserved much better. Rose and Bernard weren't even given propper time. If they killed off Claire, that was the worst death of the series. Jesus, luckily they make this weakeness up with fantastic writing elsewhere on the show.

A 10 out of 10 for season 4 nevertheless. I rank it above season 1, and of course, the other two.

Gouge Away by Pixies was the song playing in jack's truck

Next year is too long. Im hoping Locke comes back. There maybe a loop as with the doctor of the frieghter. maybe it is a finaly dead Locke but after all is done. and his body issent back inorder to protect the island. or provide the means for the O6 to return as the focus to bring them together. looks like even though he can return Ben still has role to play. maybe he will return to the island with the others lets wait and see.

brilliant

-When Miles told Charlotte that he was curious why she was leaving since she came back, I shot up and immediately thought of Annie. She has to be Annie, way to make the one of the four of those newbies whom I thought was lame, have a point.

And aside to Andres, you and I must watch a different show. Claire will be in the next season, in a role that I think will be awesome. Rose and Bernard dead? When did that happen? Rose was seen talking with Miles in the episode then wasn't shown the rest of the episode, no death there. Michael may not be dead either and could become one of Christian's minions like Claire has. I don't really need to know the Libby stuff yet, as I know they'll make an interesting way of bringing it about and I'm not disappointed they didn't do it this season.

The island can't be antimatter, that is if the laws of physics that we know still apply there! When regular matter and antimatter meet, that annihilate each other releasing massive amounts of energy in the form of gamma rays(em waves).

I think that Aaron must return to the island. He is the one that Richard was looking for so long ago when he gave young John Locke the Dalai Lama test. Aaron is pivotal to the plot. Of course Claire doesn't want her son so involved in the island's story which is why she returned to warn Kate in the dream sequence. Also, that is why it is imperative that ALL the 6 return to the island.
And, did anyone see the significance in Jack bring his father on the plane in the coffin and ending up on the island and now they must bring Locke back in a coffin as well...and both have very close ties to the mysterious Jacob?!?
I am going to miss this show!

I don't see how Charlotte could be Annie, she is half of Ben's age.

Did anyone else notice the quality of some of the scenes in this episode, for example, when Hurley was talking on the chopper before it took off from the island, the video was very grainy.

Also I found the editing very bad compared to other episodes, I think they definitely rushed to get this 2 hour finale done.

But I'm just a stickler for detail,
other than that a really good episode

I might be wrong, but didn't the producers deny that it was Locke in the coffin in one of the podcasts - either way, it made some sense before but definitely makes a lot more sense now.

To the comment that Walt looks older now, did you expect the actor to not age?

1 bernard and rose are ok..they would stay at the island so they will be healthy.
2.daniel is in the boat so he will come back once more to the island..there must be several times that he returns to the island...in his very first scene he was crying because he has been there at least once..
3.no connection between annie and charlotte..as daniel she has been to the island at least once more..the only one that remembers everything (where and when he exists) is the chinese ghost whisperer..the other 2 (daniel and charlotte) have mind releases so they check up their memory ability from time to time as the game of the cards in the beach showed..
4.christian died as locke..first he has moved the island and went out of it..and after that something killed him so there would be some situation changing the line of the facts....there are 2 possibilities of who the killer was.. Someone of windmor men or either there is a suicide as they both knew (christian and locke) that the dead body each time would be returned to the island (by jack in the first situation and o6 in the second) and come back live again..
tell me your opinions..

1 bernard and rose are ok..they would stay at the island so they will be healthy.
2.daniel is in the boat so he will come back once more to the island..there must be several times that he returns to the island...in his very first scene he was crying because he has been there at least once..
3.no connection between annie and charlotte..as daniel she has been to the island at least once more..the only one that remembers everything (where and when he exists) is the chinese ghost whisperer..the other 2 (daniel and charlotte) have mind releases so they check up their memory ability from time to time as the game of the cards in the beach showed..
4.christian died as locke..first he has moved the island and went out of it..and after that something killed him so there would be some situation changing the line of the facts....there are 2 possibilities of who the killer was.. Someone of windmor men or either there is a suicide as they both knew (christian and locke) that the dead body each time would be returned to the island (by jack in the first situation and o6 in the second) and come back live again..
tell me your opinions..

Did I miss something? When did Richard Alpert go looking for Aaron? He was looking for John Locke, Locke just wasn't ready

Aaron is the chosen one and must go back to the island. Remember, he is the only baby to ever survive a birth on the island. That is why Ben and his group wanted Claire and the baby in the beginning. The others know this just as the island knows. Aaron is connected to the island in a big way.

This is getting a little out of hand now. I thought I watched the Twilight Zone last night or one of those Stephen King 3 story movies they used to come out with. I lost a little bit of lost last night.

Locke is Jacob. It looked that way in the brief clip last season when we saw a split second image of Jacob. If not then Locke still exists in another time/space. Locke will be back either way. Seem to be setting up society cannot exist with faith alone, but also needs science (jack) debate.

Locke does not need to move the island so he can travel! He can travel back and forth just as Ben has and just as Tom Friendly did. So it isn't that he was banned. Maybe Abbadon finally got him when he was visiting an 815 off the island. More likely it is staged to get them to come back. Jin, Michael and Locke are NOT dead until the show is over. Seriously, speculate all you want, they all have unfinished business. WAlt and Michael have to patch things up. If Walt had his last scene on the show last night then I guess we never need to see Michael and him again. If Walt will be back, then so will Michael. Locke will be a major player as a spirit or alive, reanimated, etc. No need to feel like he is "dead"

I find it funny that Locke has met with Richard Alpert on so many occasions growing up, and possibly in a previous life, but each time he sees Alpert is like the first time he has seen him. I would be shocked if I saw a guy who stalked me throughout my childhood on a random island. Hello, inconsistency.

The last 45 minutes of this episode were typical amazing Lost. The first 1H 15 minutes was like a very bad B action movie. If it weren't for caring about the characters I would have turned it off, the acting was terrible, but more than likely that was the fault of the writers giving the actors one liners to blurt out to set up the show. I like how the helicopter loses all its fuel only after it takes off. When it is sitting on the ground the fuel should have all poured out in the 30 + minutes after the gun fight before they took off. Pretty lame.

What if Charlotte moved the island previously and was able to find her way back on. This would give us hope for Ben's return.

I just read a bunch of stuff on Jeremy Bentham. Two things really stand out. 1 a comment he made later in his life regarding a place of his youth and he said 'Take me forward, I entreat you, to the future -- do not let me go back to the past.' I don't think he was meaning time travel obviously but it could play into some thing and derive a new meaning. Second when Jeremy Bentham died it was in his will that his body be preserved and put in a glass case for everyone to see and still to this day it is in a glass case at University College in London. SO I wonder if this ties into some way why John took on the name Jeremy. Maybe in some way Locke isn't dead, but he wants everyone to think he is, so he put is body on display. Good gosh I will never make it 8 months.

Some of the timing was a little off. Sawyer jumps out of the helicopter and gets back to the island but the folks in the helicopter don't? He must be a strong swimmer!

Did anyone notice the scene where Sawyer whispered something to Kate, which we could hear, then he kissed her. Does it sound familiar to another movie? The movie was LOST in Translation. Bill Murray whispered to Scarlet Johanson at the end and then kissed her.

Just a thought!!!

Questions, questions, questions ... always questions with this show. But first ...

The Good: (1) Ben + Locke's interaction in The Orchid w/ Ben loading up the "transporter" w/ metal objects and Locke staring at him all confused b/c of what he just saw on the videotape. Also Ben scolding Locke ... "John, when will you learn, I always have a plan." (2) The Charlotte revelation ... great stuff there. (3) Desmond being found by Penny and then his comment to Jack: "As long as I have Penny, I'll always be okay" ... that seems like foreshadowing to me. If Ben is successful in killing Penny does that mean that either (A) Des loses his "constant" and therefore will die (B) Des then becomes obsessed w/ finding and killing Ben or (C) Des decides to go to the island to help his friends b/c he has nothing left to live for in the real world. Interesting. (4) Hurley's comments like "nice playing w/ you Mr. Ecko" and "wow, you got big" to Walt. (5) fight scene w/ Sayid and Keamy.

The Bad: (1) Keamy's explanation about the heart monitor ... like people have said, why would Ben care? (2) Keamy surviving the gun shots ... ok, ok ... he had body armor on. But wouldn't Sayid check to see if he was dead? (3) The whole "turning the big wheel" thing by Ben ... a little contrived, no? (4) Locke being called Jeremy Bentham by the other 815ers ... like someone mentioned, whatever he was calling himself is one thing but why would they call him anything but Locke?

The Ugly: (1) The helicopter crash ... it was pretty vicious yet nobody had a scratch on them??? (2) Who comes up with the story about a typhoon washing up a supply boat? I doubt Jack would have figured that out ... he'd need some proof of a typhoon, right? So, does that mean that Oceanic is in on the story too? (3) The alternate endings that they shot had 2 others in the coffin ... Desmond and Sawyer. That doesn't make any sense at all so even if you were armed w/ that info you'd have to know that Locke had to be in the coffin. (4) the freighter explosion ... if everyone knew the boat "was gonna blow" then why wouldn't 10 people be trying for the copter? You would think that those on the copter would have to push some people off in order to take off. Seems like everyone else was quite content to just jump in the water. That was stupid.

Questions to answer:
1) Did Faraday get transported w/ the island? Was he close enough to shore to get "sucked in" to what looked like a worm hole?
2) Michael and Jin's fate? As far as the freighter explosion goes it could have been shot in a way so that the true sequence of events was not shown. For ex.: Michael is told by Christian "he can go" so he runs out of the room, grabs a vest and dives in the water just as the freighter explodes. Same w/ Jin .... so, my belief is that they are both alive. But more importantly, where are they? Sucked back to the island?
3) Sun's common interests w/ Widmore ... did she mean killing Ben? And does that mean she thinks Ben is the 2nd man responsible for his death? You would think she would blame Widmore but apparently not.
4) If Penny is killed what becomes of Des?
5) Will Locke be "re-incarnated" if he gets back to the island?
6) What someone mentioned before ... who else has moved the island? Otherwise, how would Ben know how to do that?
7) How will Jack convince the O6 to go back? No reason for Kate or Sayid to go back or want to go back ... at least Sun has a reason (Jin)and Hurley is being told by Charlie to go back.

Now it seems pretty obvious where the direction of the plot is going in Season 5 but how are they going to stretch this into 2 full seasons???

Brian, good stuff.

I agree about Michael and Jin. I think if they had died we would have seen the bodies floating around. It would have been a more powerful season finale. It won't be as powerful if they show them floating around in the season premiere so I think they will both be alive and well in the Lost Season 5. Farraday has to be alive as well. Perhaps his raft of passengers picks up Jin and Michael and they all get rescued.

Didn't Jack say to Ben that Sun thought he was responsible for Jin's death? Would Sun be that vindictive to go after Jack with Widmore? The whole scene with Sun and Widmore seemed unnatural so I think she may be using him to find the island.

I hope Penny and Des survive if no one else in the whole saga does. Des has had the roughest journey of anyone. I can't see him and Penny not together at the end of the show, I would be devastated. Ideally they will set it up as Ben attempts to kill Penny and takes her hostage. The only thing that would be better than killing her is killing Widmore. He makes a deal with Desmond that Des has to kill Widmore. There will be some long arduous way of making Widmore fall out of favor with the island that Desmond will have to undertake in order to kill Widmore. Perhaps this is why the chaos on the island started and Locke needs everyone to return?

Locke was either time cloned and that was the body or he will be reincarnated( possibly as jacob). The Jacob role fits because he whispered "Help me" to Locke and now Locke needs the help from the Oceanic 6. What if Christian Shepphard has taken an island coup on Jacob? For all intents and purposes Locke is not dead.

I'm sure the island has been moved many times throughout history by bit players. If you want someone we know, how about Abbadon? He knew about Locke's past and followed him like Alpert did. I'm sure there is a way to return to the island for those that left, but it is probably complex and full of moral dilemmas and only Ben will figure out how to get around it. Oh and jacob could have told Ben how to move it.
Season 5 will be about how Jack convinces them all to go back and the strife on the islands. Season 6 will be the resolution when everyone returns to the island. Ben offered to help Jack get them to return. No need to speculate on this as there will be 16 episodes dedicated to this very question next season.

Jack talks Kate into going back for Sawyer somehow, perhaps she finds out the only way to fulfill her promise is to go back.
Ben said Sun hates Jack and views Jack as responsible for Jin's death. This one might be a little harder to accomplish.

If you study Jeremy Bentham , one of his influences in life was from another English philosopher named John Locke. John Locke lived from 1632 to 1704. The writers of lost are pretty clever. I thought that this was pretty interesting.

Ok, so in the Orchid video, he said when they send the rabbit to the future, it will seem to disappear, then it will reappear at that time. It seems, Faraday was there to research that, since he thinks only your mind can travel time. So when Ben moved the island, he moved ahead of our time, so does that mean when he wakes up in the desert, that island would reappear back on our timeline. Something like that could explain how the blackrock got on the island, it reappeard and crashed the boat. Richard and Ben seem very ok, with letting the Oceanic six off the island, maybe they were on a list, seems people get to leave the island when they have work to do. Maybe Jack isn't ready to lead his flock of sheep yet, he had to see the island disappear and lose it all before he could believe. It also seems they want to leave the audience with an creepy feeling the more and more they show aaron on film. This is also done with Ben, Richard, Widmore, so hey I dont want Aaron on the island either lol. The only person to seem, to be able to make miracles happen is Jack, the person who doesnt believe in miracles. He is still battling himself, and I think the show will completely begin revolve around him in some kind of way............. I JUST CANT FIGURE IT OUT!

One other intersting tie into Jeremy Bbentham is he argued agains the writtings of William Blackstone... Blackstone, Blackrock? They sure do like to pick out some obscure things to relate too.

You are so right about that, CT. They sure do make the fans think which makes the show so much fun to watch. Othe blogs are talking about the island being Atlantis. I know that this has been assumed before but I wonder on how the writers would explain that scenario. They could have a field day with that type of direction on the story.

What is the purpose of Keamy blowing up the boat? As far as he knows the only people on the boat are Desmond, Sayid, and the crew of the freighter - none of whom are connected to his quarry. "You better not kill me or I'm gonna blow up my boat and THEN you'll be sorry cause there'll be oil and gas and dead fish and stuff!"

Between that and the assault on the Other village a few episodes back it seemed like a contrived way to get rid of all of the excess baggage / unnamed 815ers. Of the what was over 70? that originally survived, there are now 6 off the island (plus Aaron) and about 5 on the island and about 5 potentially stuck in the middle of the ocean on the zodiac with a loopy physicist. Certainly seems to lower the stakes quite dramatically.

Weekend at Bernie's. That's awesome. If the island wants everybody back for some hitherto unexplained reason, doesn't Walt have to come back too?

How did Jack ruin anything? I figured part of his downward spiral was guilt from leaving everyone behind. But they're all DEAD. What's his motivation for wanting to get back? Just being compelled by Locke and the island? Visions of his father making him nutty? Certianly it can't be rescuing the scant few survivors that are left. As far as he knows (before whatever Locke told him) everyone but Locke died in the explosion.

Even deeper into the whole real world people of Bentham, you said he was influenced by Locke, well if you go and read about Locke, his writtings influenced Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The ties even go deeper... All these writters were tied to each other by something... Influences in each other. All our characters in Lost are tied to each other in ways.

What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped, and who is Kate going back too ??????

Brian, answer to the "typhoon" story. It's obvious that Penny is going to cover for them. She obviously knew of the recent events that would enable them to make a story up.

In an answer to Keamy blowing up the boat: He knows nothing about the island itself. He is contracted out by Widmore to get Ben, with a cover that he's there to rescue everyone. He holds the ship hostage in a way because he thinks Ben/Locke and everyone else need the boat to get back home.

Good questions though

John Locke was also influenced by Plato. Of course we know what Plato had to say about the lost city of Atlantis. Maybe the writers are giving us clues about what the island really is. Could it be Atlantis?... who knows? I know that Plato influenced a ton of philosophers and it could be just a coincedence but I thought that this was interesting as well. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

this is a far fetched theory but It might be plausible. So most everyone saw the orchid video reel from comic con last year. if not google the orchid video on youtube. But could it be possible the who ever is in the orchid station when they set it off could be thrust into the future or the past... in a sense doubling them. Reguardless of the chamber. Could this be why its so deep. Think when john was watching the video and the video automatically was fast forwarding, the possibility of Dr. Marvin Candle being in the station performing experiments then in the other videos we see him named Mark Wickmund or Edgar Halliwax,could they be his clonesor his from the past or future. John being in the orchid when it was set off unknowingly having a clone sent back to the past. I have always assumed that Ben has a twin. Remember when Ben said that the orchid was used as a last resort. Could this be because who ever is in this station could have a copy of them sent back to the past or thrust forward to the future. This might not be that far fetched.

You know, I have read other places about how a lot of stuff is related in lost to Greek mythology especially after they saw the 4 toe leg. If you really dig into Atlantis and the pillars of Hercules which leads you to Odysseus and Homer's Odyssey, you can draw some simmilarities between Ben and Odysseus. Especially when you factor in that Odysseus was guided to safety through perils with the help of the dead.

Ok, so in the Orchid video, he said when they send the rabbit to the future, it will seem to disappear, then it will reappear at that time. It seems, Faraday was there to research that, since he thinks only your mind can travel time. So when Ben moved the island, he moved ahead of our time, so does that mean when he wakes up in the desert, that island would reappear back on our timeline. Something like that could explain how the blackrock got on the island, it reappeard and crashed the boat. Richard and Ben seem very ok, with letting the Oceanic six off the island, maybe they were on a list, seems people get to leave the island when they have work to do. Maybe Jack isn't ready to lead his flock of sheep yet, he had to see the island disappear and lose it all before he could believe. It also seems they want to leave the audience with an creepy feeling the more and more they show aaron on film. This is also done with Ben, Richard, Widmore, so hey I dont want Aaron on the island either lol. The only person to seem, to be able to make miracles happen is Jack, the person who doesnt believe in miracles. He is still battling himself, and I think the show will completely begin to revolve around him in some kind of way(too bad he never makes the right descisionCANT FIGURE IT OUT!

Hey CT, in what ways do you mean that Homer's Odyssey is like the show. I know Odysseus travels to Hades, to speak to Agamenon and Achilles to figure out what to do with the suitors. I thought it was Pallas Athene that guided Odysseus and his son, through the rest? Sorry off subject, I read everyones post since, everyone here has helpful information.

CT, that is very cool. That is a great comparison between Ben and Odysseus. You just might be on to something. I also wonder on how many other Greek mythologies correlate with the lost characters expriences. The thing that would be really funny is that we are just watching old Greek mythology stories but the characters names have been changed and the stories have been placed in modern times. O course the writers would not duplicate the Greek stories to exact but they would duplicate (like you said) their experiences and the simmilarities of their journeys in life. OK, now I'm getting too deep and will stop with this. But you did make a very good observation.

Gods! such a good frakkin' finale... First time poster here, though I always read the site.

Sawyer whispering in Kate's ear "could you find her.. tell her I'm sorry..." I guess he was referring to Cassidy, the mother of his child (though he must not know about the existance of his son... material to revive Sawyer's story line on season 5?? so I hope!). So I guess Kate does not communicates with Mr. James Ford once off-island, she just keeps the promise made on the helicopter... but once she realizes they met before (Kate and Cassidy, I mean), will she understand fate and destiny is really what this is all about? cant wait to see how they resolve the jack-kate-sawyer triangle thing (who will be adam and eve??)

Regarding Jeremy Bentham, I also didn't like the fact they kept saying that name instead of Locke's... But I guess Bentham could be a Doppeldanger??? I dunno, this show is crazy enough... I just don't see how they can kill John, not because I particularly like his carachter, but because he's been presented as crucial for the mythology of LOST... otherwise, why would we get a flashback of his entire life a couple of episodes ago, showing how richard alpert tried to recruit him his whole life? I guess there's nothing but wait, theorize like crazy for 8 months, and then see...

Mindblowing finale! Let's hope Sun won't become a bad guy... how the heck did she find out about Charles Widmore involvement with the island?? don't remember any link between them during these 8 days that was the 4th season... Maybe Paik Industries is also involved with Widmore, and Sun knows all about that guy (including he cannot die), so she decides to play opposite for her revenge, and keep his enemy closer... hehehehe, another theory!

Loved to see Desmond reuniting with Penny, the hint that maybe charlotte was born on the island (like Aaron... so, if you get born in the island, you'll always have something within you asking you to go back...), and the fact that Rose and Bernard never even made the effort to get into the rescue boat... hehehehe good things!

final questions:

- why creepy Claire told Kate not to get Aaron back to the Island??? didn't she want his kid back?? isn't she supposed to be the only one who can raise him?? did Ben turn bad once the island reappeared in the future and that's why he wants all the 06 back in the island??

- wasn't the moving of the island extremely dangerous??? the sky turned purple, but the others and Locke dind't get any special protection while it moved... dunno, that was kind of disappointing... I was hoping it involved the volcano they mentioned in season 3 ("The man behind the curtain")---- but no... let's hope the Island moved as well the people who were on the ocean, the ones that escaped the freighter...

- did the island moved in time AND space??? if it only moved in time, like the bunny, then wouldn't Ben know the bearing to head back to the island??? is it a moral or physical impediment for him to get back to the island??? is jacob testing him and using Locke as fun??? dunno... too many questions!

- and last but not least, Jin! did he survive? will he be fighting to get off the island if he made it??? i guess he wants to meet his daughter... btw, i agree with
Don, that was some fine acting by Yunjin Kim, as she saw her husband's terrible fate...

well. I guess will be back next january! it was a great season, can't wait for the resolution!

Christian
-They are going to the boat first before heading back to the island. It must be around ten minutes and who knows exactly when Sawyer jump. If Sawyer didn't come back around that time he must be already dead in the ocean.

Keamy threatens to blow up the boat because that is the only way everybody can go home. Or maybe he knows Sayid,Kate and everybody else is heading to the boat as he feigns death for awhile.

I think maybe Jin is gonna make it but not Michael. Jin take awhile to reach outside and missed the heli. I dont think Michael can run fast enough to went out and jump in the water.

Really looking forward in the future about the group in the zodiac. Where are they suppose to go when the island suddenly vanished in front of them?

About going back to the island, Jack, Sun and Hurley already had their reason to go back. Sayid maybe convinced by Ben to go back after the murder of Nadia but not sure. Only Kate left and like Ben with his many plan said, 'Maybe I can help you with that.' Is Locke went to see Walt to bring him back too?

Loved the Finale
From what I understand next season to to be about why they need to get back to the island and the final season will be about what happens when they do. I cannot wait to get more LOST!

I read in the runup to the finale last night that the 1st part of "There's no place like home" was going to be shown again 1st but with some all new scenes.
I didn't get to see that rerun myself so i am wondering what exactly were the new "unseen" scenes? and were they of any importance?
I'm guessing not as nobody has spoke about this episode.

Hugo: "Why are we doin this, dude? Sailing 3000 miles to ANOTHER island?"

Sayid: "Because it's the only way to keep them safe."

Me: Keep WHO safe!?!? They all got blowed up!

I think Locke is back in "civilization" because when Ben moved the island it wound up in Poughkeepsie.

If they ALL have to go back to the island, not only Walt should be included but wouldn't Desmond have to go too? Why would it just be 815ers.

Curious what "bad things" will transpire on the island. Widmore's thugs are dead, there are only a half dozen 815ers and with Ben gone and Locke in charge there's no longer any reason for conflict between 815ers and Others. And there's rum. Should be all Happy-Happy now.

Matt,

Interesting comments about Ben having a twin from the Orchid time travel. This got me thinking that perhaps that is why Ben can't return to the island? He cannot exist in the same realm as his twin who is on it as a result of the space/time travel?

If nothing else the finale finaly put to rest the "is Ben good or is he bad" debate in my eyes.
Unless he's willing to sacrifise however many people for a greater good we still don't know of it's quite obvious that he has become evil (or always was) and prolly why his time as leader of the island was supposed to end.
The only time he appears to do nice things are when he is minipulating people and wanting them to do something for him.
He's pure evil.

I think the name "Jeremy Bentham" gives away that the guy in the coffin is not the real Locke. Bentham, the philosopher, was inspired by John Locke, likewise the philosopher. I think that's a hint that the man in the coffin is inspired by Locke - i.e. a clone, like the bunny. It's entirely possible that John clones himself, teleports (like Ben did), and tries to convince them to come back by doing something so drastic he dies in the process. But island Locke is still fine.

Great episode though. Can't wait for the mystery around Widmore, Abbadon, Ben and Paik to unfold.

How great is it that the top-secret scene code-named "The Frozen Donkey Wheel" ACTUALLY contained a Frozen Donkey Wheel. Who'da thunk it? They came right out and told us exactly what it was yet none of us ever suspected. Cheers to the fourth fantastic season of Lost!!

My favorite line of the season: "What's with you and getting off this island? You sound like a damn broken record!"34960

-PB

What if Charlotte is Ben & Annie's daughter?

Also, I need to watch again, but did Claire actually say not to take Aaron back to the island or did she just say don't take him back? If she didn't mention the island, maybe she meant not to take him back to civilization.

Good episode, if the O6 does go back maybe they can time travel to the point before the island was moved to set things right.

let's see, how do we move the island? a BIG frozen crankwheel that someone has to turn!!!

can you say: JUMP THE SHARK.

seriously, all that crap with the numbers and 108 minutes, and just have to turn a wheel....are the writers still on strike?

Claire: "Don't bring him back, Kate . . . don't you dare bring him back!"

I think she meant not to take him off the island (I also think she is dead).

When Kate woke up and went to check on Aaron, she told him she was sorry. Maybe she is having a change of heart regarding returning to the island.

Although I could sit at the computer all day and type about how great Lost is and how the finale cleared up many things, there was one minor flaw by the writers:

Coming to and from the island, people have to keep at a certain bearing, (I believe it was 315.0 or something with those numbers?). However, when Sawyer jumped out of the helicopter, he had to swim back to the island. Unless he has sensors or is the luckiest person alive, he couldn't have known the correct bearing to get back safely. This brings up the possibility that he may have side effects in season 5, but I don't think the writers thought about this.

I was also very impressed with his swimming abilities, he must have taken lessons from Charlie ;P

Anyways, to sum up what everyone else is saying, LOST IS THE BEST SHOW EVER. There's nothing more to it. It's not even a show, LOST is like a freaking art!

-Gates

"Anyways, to sum up what everyone else is saying, LOST IS THE BEST SHOW EVER. There's nothing more to it. It's not even a show, LOST is like a freaking art!"

Yeah, well dirty beds, womens knickers and baked bean cans have all won major art awards. Doesn't say much.

;)

If nothing else it's certainly begining to live up to it's name.

Locke in the coffin is fat, cheeks and all. Either it is an earlier Locke or a clone, the present Locke is much more svelt. It also may be a ploy by the island to get the 6 to go back. Why did Jack bust in to the funeral parlor? and how did Ben just happen to show up then?? Its a game by the island. The island is not of this earth IMO. Remember what Juliet said? I do and it has stuck with me,,always. Creepy SHE Knows.

Left the good part out, sorry she (Juliet) told Sawyer they were building a runway for the aliens. Not a joke haha, but maybe a clue to the stations, None of the DI would be smart enough to figure it out or have enough time to build it. The island is alien IMO

A few comments.

Did anyone else think Locke looked a bit like Dr. Evil in the coffin?

Did anyone else think Ben looked a bit like a vampire when he met Jack at the mortuary?

Jin is dead; get over it. The force of the explosion was enough to sink the ship in under two minutes. Even if he had jumped in the water, he's toasted shredded wheat.

Lapidus is one awful helicopter pilot. He apparently doesn't know how to auto-rotate. When your helicopter loses power, you turn the rotor blades so they become "shallow". As the helicopter descends, it keeps the blades rotating, just like a pinwheel. And you have some directional control during all this, so you can aim for a clearing. Then, as you get close to the ground/ocean, you make them steep once again. That allows you to break the descent and put it down gently.

Why did Ben give Locke instructions in how to get down to the "real" Orchid Station? It's not like Locke could have done anything useful there on his own ... certainly he didn't have a clue as to how to move the island.

The donkey wheel looked ancient. Who dug down that far into the island, using ancient technology, way back when, apparently *knowing* what the implications of doing so were?

So now we know that Kate has been carrying out Sawyer's request when she's back in civilization and that she's likely not in contact with him. It's still unclear why she couldn'tn tell Jack the details.

Whoever above asked, the "he" Kate needs to get back to while talking with Jack at the end of the runway is Aaron.

I really don't think Locke is dead. Maybe he was bitten by one of those paralyzing spiders like in the "Exposé" episode from Season 3 to make him appear dead...

The Island is both Alien and atlantis..
Locke Is from that civilization... So are some of the other special people

I think we can also have the question answered as to how Sawyer conveyed his message to Kate about his kid. It was the very last thing he told her before jumping ship so to speak.

@ Gates: I totally thought the same thing about Sawyer and his bearings, at first I thought he was going to act like he had never been to the island or something because of the time travel thing but then he just acted normal.

@ Eric: LOL about the Dr. Evil comment.

gates did you forget that Daniel could see the freighter from the island? Not that far a swim for Sawyer. He's a stud anyway.

The ? thats still sticks in my head is why all the DI stations are subterranean, with a surrounding a focal core?? Spaceship. are Alpert and the other hostiles aliens? A dirt shield hiding the craft disguised as an island. You cannot move an immobile object such as an island but you can move a movable object as a built craft AKA UFO.

-Okay I think this is getting a little out of hand.. I'm positive that the amazing minds behind LOST didn't set out all of the groundwork, connections, and mysterious things to end up being about Aliens. You guys are just saying aliens because it's a perfect solution to anything that someone doesn't know. Season 5 and 6 will no doubtedly explain the phenomenons that LOST has shown over the years, and will be anything BUT Aliens..

-By the way, Locke looking like Doctor Evil was hilarious lmao. Props to "Eric" for coming up with that one.

-Gates

So will Sun now be working with the enemy?

I think Locke moved the island a gain, and the movements through pennys tracking station will help them locate the island again.

It was implied by Sayid that he killed locke.. although that may have been misdirection.

On the terrible things that happened... We don't actually know what time frame Sun spoke to Widmore. Maybe she inadvertently caused the bad things trying to save Jin with widmores help. Have that as the story in the past, with the losties story in the future.

I am so happy about penny and desmond, this one was of the stories in lost i cared the most about having a happy ending. I think ben will let penny live in the end as some sort of sign he is a better man than widmore. But use her totally against him to destroy it all.

Couple of observations, Locke is using an assumed name as he wants to protect the island, ok he`s got off at some point in the future but his motivation is definately to keep it protected and secret. If he gives is own name it will be clear that he was part of the crash and that the `Oceanic 6` werent the only ones to survive the crash.

The island has moved into the future, as `explained` by on the Dharma video, `..it appears to disappear` etc.

The giant wheel/cog used by Ben to move it does indeed appear to be buried deep under the ground, and with hieroglyphics etc it would appear it dates back to Egyptian or similar times, meaning the island and its powers have been harnised for thousands of years...Alien visitors? Maybe. Why Ben can`t go back is a mystery that will be answered i`m sure.

Ben telling Jack he has to go back (`...you all have to back`) obviously also means Locke has to return, presumably where he`ll be revived or definately play some sort of `physical` part in Season 5, he wont remain a corpse thats for sure. How do we know Desmond hasnt been told he must return too? Just because we didnt see it doesnt mean it wont happen, it would certainly make sense that the writers would have to explain that.

Lastly, I`m kinda buying into the theory that we`ve seen Jack`s second time on the island already, someone mentioning his bloody nose making even more sense now. All thru this program hes been obsessed with getting ppl off the island, unnaturally so. Its almost as if thats all he`s there for. I also think Jack is Jacob (or will become Jacob), who else would his father and sister be best placed to talk for than their son/brother when Locke spoke to them in the cabin.

I thought this episode was crap . . . at least some of it.

I believe Jin will get stuck in time loop, suffer side effects to travel to and from island. My concern is he won't know about "the Constant" and who his is. I think Daniel knows he will, too, and is not looking forward to it.

does anyone know if the quote about the Lost Island is a bogus quote? the Honorius do Autun thing? I haven't had time to look into it. "There lies in the Ocean an island which is called The Lost. In charm and all kinds of fertility it far surpasses every other land, but it is unknown to me. Now and again it may be found by chance, but if one seeks it, it cannot be found, and therefore it is called The Lost.

more than anything else, in a way, it was this quote I saw at a rival website that has evoked my imagination and made the show more poignant. I can't explain it. but if it's bogus, let me down now. if it was really some dude in the 12th century, i'm curious to know more.

New to this

I have a question - someone may already have answered this

What happened to the Children who where taken from the tail survivors?

As Ben was climbing down to the wheel he passed some stones standing up -- they had strange markings -- did anyone see these or get a screen shot?

Just to let everyone know, I've watched a total of about five and a half Lost episodes, all from this last season (I was fortunate to see the Desmond episode), and even for a stranger to the show who barely understands the intricacies of the plots and subplots, that finale was freaking mind-blowing.

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