nice recap, but:

"He reminisces about his time in the Pearl station armory, where their roles were reversed."

you mean the Swan station.

So... I have a question about last nights episode....

(wont be answered now, or maybe ever, could have jsut been a setting, but the Producers of Lost never leave things in like this without it coming back sometime. Anyway its a thought for everyone to ponder)

Wheres does the ferry go?

As Sun is walking along the dock to the beach, just before they we find out Jin understands english somewhat. Theres a sign on the dock (right side of screen if I rememebr right), that says ferry on it. Its a named ferry, but I only caught it after the fact and with no tivo i couldnt rewind to see what the name was.

Like I said above though,the prodicers wouldnt have put it there unless it meant something. They very well could have left the sign off the dock and it would have made sense. or just put a sign that named the dock, but they chose to name it as a ferry. Could it be a ferry off the island, or maybe a ferry to another part of the island. It would make sense if it were a ferry off the island, since thats where michael left with the small boat to leave the island from.

The sign on the ferry said "Pali Ferry" and is the one referenced by Marvin Candle, or whatever name he was using in the Pearl Station video.

You're doing a great job with these write up Doc, however at the end of each for this season you have slipped from describing the events of the episode to making assumptions and connections not yet proven factual.

For example, Ben does tell Jack everything you described as well as show Jack a video, but I there is not proof that Ben's claims are facts yet.

Facts: He told Jack that they can leave. Not that they can actually leave.

I know it is a nit-picky little point, but your recaps go a long way towards driving some of the discussion on the forums here and elsewhere.

Keep up the good work and thanks.

RaZ

I have a question for anyone who wants to offer their opinion. There are many popular theories out there that say that time on the island moves differently than time in the real world does. Does the information we found out in last night's episode disprove that theory? From what Ben said to Jack, he made it sound like the losties had been there for 69 days and now it's Nov, 29th 2004. If the others have contact with the real world, they would know if time moves at a different rate. But then again they could know and just not have told Jack I guess. I would like to know what some people think about this.

Desmonds timeline is also in sync with the losties lives, if time moved differently he would have known it.

They "Pala Ferry" takes you to the barricks. I presume that they homes that Ben, Ethan, Juliet, etc, etc are lving in. Until some new evidence arises I will stick with that theory. At least we are making some headway with info on the others.

Hey DocArtz, after reading that great recap/review of yours I though I'd go over and offer to do a similar thing for BSGSite, but I can't seem to find any contact info.

I don't know if it's something you guys (I'm not sure how involved you are with it tbh) want, but I thought I'd ask.

Could you let me know either way?

A beautifully written episode recap. It is gratifying that the writers have gotten back to symbolic characterization. We probably could devote several more pages to the ?Glass? ballerina. This is a clue not just about Sun deceiving Jin, but her capability to continue deceiving. Nevertheless she bears incredible guilt over lying that the maid broke it. I wrote about this in my Clues Blog that I post over a LostExposed.com. I think it also likely is a clue to guilt about something else of which we presently are unaware. Glass has other symbolism, it is breakable and vulnerable too. Remember, someone always dies on Lost. Maybe I?m reading too much into it, maybe not. We?ll see by the end of the season. One other thought on Sun, she realizes she has a background to regret. Jack doesn?t. Maybe that?s why he must be taken, because he refuses to realize how he needs to grow. And what about the Colleen/Julliet/Ben triangle?

Contender -- Glass is also transparent.
Sun's father saw through her lie about breaking the glass ballerina. Jin knew she was lying to him on the beach.
What if Jin KNOWS of her deception (re: Jae) and still remains by her side?

Jin knows that he's been deceived repeatedly. He has a real sense of loyalty. Remember how he stood by Michael, when it seemed that Michael had gone off the deep end? He stands by his wife because it's the right thing to do. Jin has become my favorite character as far as who I'm 'rooting for'. Partly because I'm going through something similar at the moment, and can relate to him very well, but also because we're seeing all of the old good guys' moral armor break (Locke, Jack, Sayid in particular).

I loved this episode! I'm glad that the characters are all developing in a logical way and that we're still able to learn little things about characters we thought we knew. Overall, season 3 is off to a GREAT start!!!

Archaeological digs don't use tampers to flatten the earth (which is actually shown in use in your screencap above). It's a ground-clearing site, but not archaeological in nature, methinks. What Kate and Sawyer are meant to "discover" is bonding as a couple through hardship, IMHO.

Also, Juliet never held the gun to Kate's head. Nitpicky, but she held it aimed at Kate's torso.

So this is probably one of my favorite things about last nights episode... When collen said they arent the enemy and that if sun shots they will be... It seems to me that they probably arent the bad guys but are doing something theyre suppsoed to do (atleast it wouldnt surprise me to learn that at the end)... its just that they really arent proving that theyre benevolent either.

not really an insight, jsut something I see as interesting... That the Others could be pissed at one of their own getting killed... when theyve killed some people from the crash... just doesnt make much sense to me in a philosophical way lol

BASEBALL!!!...ummm, im sorry...but that annoys me....one of the many reasons I, an so many non american viewers like lost is its internationalism...the fact it has no national restrictions...alot of people from lots of different countries, cultures and beliefs all stuck on a strange island....so for the confirmation that they DO have contact with the outside world ( a pretty major event ) to done through Baseball, a sport ONLY played in america and only significant to americans (despite the ludicras fact its called the 'World' Series)..is annoying...i know it has specific connections to jack's past, which was partly comforting, and im sure loads of you found it really great that you could relate to it but really....to me, that was the jump the shark moment...no mention of the Tsunami in thailand...George Bush/Christover Reeve/Baseball...Great...it may seem petty, but thats partly ruined my enjoyment of a show i absolutley loved

Carlos,

You are completely wrong. Baseball is played in Cuba, Mexico, Japan, China, Canada, Dominican Republic, etc. Many of the greatest players today are not American born players. Besides all that, it tied back into the first season when Jack and his dad both used the line, "That's why the Red Sox will never win the World Series" towards Sawyer which led to him connecting the dots that they were related. You even acknowledge that fact. This was Lost writers tipping their hat to dedicated viewers

In response methodzer0's comments about the show mentioning only "american things" and not thing like the Tsunami, well, he has to mention things that are more common to jack, like the president of the country were jack comes from, the World Series, and by the way, baseball has been ganing a lot of ground at the international level, especially in Latin America and Asia. A couple of months ago the WORLD baseball classic was held with Japan winning over Cuba in a trully wonderfull event that showed just how much baseball has spread throu out the world. Im mexican by the way, and yeah, baseball is the second most popular sport, and becoming more and more popular like in the rest of Latin America.

Also, based on the time the plane (series began) crashed on the island in 2004 and the time they have been on the island, the Indian Ocean Tsunami hasn't occured yet in the shows timeline.

I posed this on a previous post: anyone catch Ben's statement that he's been on the island his whole life? He looks like he's at least in his 40s which predates Dharma. Possible he's related to the Adam&Eve that Jack found in the cave? A decedent of the Black Rock, one of the original inhabitants?

Carlos...
It seems to me that the reason that all these specifically American references are used (and, of course, baseball is played in Japan, nearly all of South America, and the Caribbean, to mention a few regions...)is because Jack is American and therefore he's got a very direct personal connection to these events. It's specific to his character and the way his character has been developed. Sure, mentioning events like the tsunami would be startling and powerful for Jack, but Ben seems to know that if he really wants Jack to believe him, he needs to use what Jack knows best, something he can literally connect to his past, especially given the fact that Ben has already proven himself a liar to Jack. In the grand scheme, those connections would be big American things like Bush and Superman, but Jack feels very close to what you anme as the source of your irritation; baseball, and specifically the Red Sox, were the subject of the one, main civil conversation he and his father shared before their falling out and his death. Even as an American myself, I think I can understand that the international aspects of Lost are very appealing to non-American viewers (it's very appealing to me, as well), but why is it surprising or annoying that this primary character is American given the fact that the show's creators are American? Yes, I understand irritation with most things American at the moment; it's understandable if that's the source of your annoyance. But the show does have inherent national restrictions; it always has. How could it not? It's an American show. The flight, after all, was on its way to LAX. It seems to me that the stronger "Americanist" thread is a fundamental aspect of the show, and I have trouble understanding why you now let that ruin your enjoyment, as you put it? That thread's been there from the beginning. It's just narrative and character development.

I caught that james, another thing I found interesting he said to Juliet, 'you never brought me soup'. Does this imply that he was captured and turned like they are attempting with Jack? That's the impression I got from it, but I could be talking rubbish.

I agree it had conotations with jacks previous story and i agknowledge that....i just felt that it was a shame that baseball, a very american thing (despite what u say it is still predominantly american..the countries you mentions are either directly next to america or desperate to apeal to ameican culture. its not a GLOBAL game in the way soccer/tennis or even basketball is), was used in this way...it seemed more a tilt of the hat to 'American fans' and a slap in the face to the rest of us...plus..even if they'd showed charlie a manchester united game i would still have been annoyed..i felt it ruined the mysticism of the island surrounding...only my oppinion tho

Carlos - The Tsunami was the day after Christmas in 2004 if I remember correctly, and Ben was saying that it was November, so technically the tsunami didn't happen yet.

I wonder if they'll tie in the Tsunami. I know the island isnt in the Indian Ocean, but maybe it would still be affected by it?

Brady...do not misunderstand me...it was not the AMERICANISM of things that annoyed me so...the vast majority of characters are american, and i love the show...

let me put this in a way that seems less offensive...

it was that i felt so far removed from that character...in a show like lost you like to relate to the characters an their traits...with baseball i felt numb...a game i dont like or am familiar enough with was used to portray an emotional response in this character that i and im sure alot of non americans didnt get (sorry but Latin america and Canada IS still very much included in that...they understand and are influenced by US culture far more than those in europe an the east)

but you are right to a degree....a life of watching programs where americans have completely neglected a huge wide world outside its borders has made me more irratable to it than normal....but its certainly not anti-americanism

trust

Tsunami dates are agknowledged...it was more to do with the point i was tryna make rather than the tsunami itself

I like this one. There is a short list of just the items revealed at This Link but I do like your style.

How do you guys feel about how, in the first two episodes of season three, they have only showed Jack, Kate, and Sawyer; and Sayid, Jin, and Sun. Over the summer one of the main questions (aside from the whole "who are the others" deal) I had was about the hatch, what happened in there, and what happened to Locke and co. I was dissapointed to not have that story addressed immediately, but I still enjoyed having the J,K,S, story (which I guess the writers thought was more important to fans) looked into. Also, they may have only showed Sayid, Jin, and Sun in the second episode because it was convenient for filming, screen time, etc. etc.

I'm from MA and an avid LOST fan so I loved the Sox stuff...! (even though I totally see what Carlos is saying)

Erin, Nice point about that other aspect of glass, i.e. being transparent. Sun's lies turns out to be transparent to her father and Jin.

Carlos, if you hate American things so much why bother watching TV shows produced primarily by and for American audience.

What a stupid thing to say Mo, for one thing it's complete rubbish, and for another, he never said he hated American things.

I have agree with feeling a bit cheated at that moment, I could tell it was meant to have alot of weight to it, but not knowing anything about baseball or the red sox, aside from the mention in the first season, it just felt kinda cold to me.

You people are ridiculous. Jack is American, right? What is so shocking that Ben would tell him American headlines to try to convince him they have connections to the outside world? It just so happens the primary character and captive of the Others is Jack. We really don't much about Jack's personal interests or hobbies or like/dislikes. For Jack for all we know could be a Redsox fan and the others found that out in the information they collected. It just so happens in that time period the Redsox FINALLY won a World Series championship. It was meant primarily for the viewers, again this show was created in the U.S and is intended for U.S audiences, it just so happens to be somewhat cultural in that it has international characters. Would you rather have Ben say to Jack that some soccer team in Europe won a championship?? They wanted to connect to Jack, and at the same time connect with the viewer. If this was Sayid and Ben showed him something in reference to Iraqi culture that had some relevance I wouldn't be angry. By the way, you people who talk of being cultured and what not, and get disgruntled by them mentioning an American culture event. You learned something cultural last night, that being that baseball is a major sport in America. So those of you watching Lost for the international aspect, enjoy it. SO if you don't live in the U.S. you learned something. Stop whining.

It's like me(American) getting angry at a French produced television show that is watched by a majority of French people and small percentage watched worldwide for relating to French culture.

Personally, I am not bothered by not seeing the other characters yet. Everything on Lost comes in due time. The suspense and curiosity is what keeps me coming back for more.

I love the new element of the show--the new hatch, cages, characters. If we were still just sitting on the beach, I'd probably be bored by now. But I do miss the smoke monster. Bring back the smoke monster!

PS: I put a picture of the opening scene of Season 1 Pilot Part 1 on my blog with a question about Jack. The post is called Lostie Losterson from Lostville. I'd love to know what others think about my theory if you feel like checking it out.

I Have a question from the uk, how coe the others seem to know nothing about the swan hatch considering this is a dharma experiment and the fact that they seem to know nothing about a button which stops the ending of the world, what could be more important then that.

'you people who talk about being cultured'.... ha..i never said i was cultured but thanks for assuming that...

I completely understand all your points and realise why alot of you are very defensive about this but your attitude that this is an american show for americans only and us 'others' should be thankfull we've been allowed to participate init, is completely wide of the mark...yes it may have started off at abc by american writers but it was always intended for a global audience aswell as the american one..hence the inclusion of a very multinational cast. its become a huge becon of internationalism whether you like it or not..Countries like France/Italy/Germany & Australia are mad about lost..and in England where i live its the same..its very much wormed its way into the 'culture' over here too...in fact the producers agknowledged this as much by starting the Lost Experience IN England if you remember...

But yes...it is Primarily an american show, and i would be extreamly petty to begrugde american pop culture its references...as a brit i am proud that we make up the second largest cast list (charlie/sayid/eko/desmond) and love little words and phrases that carlie an desmond sneak in that others wouldnt get....jack and sawyer have both quite rightly and realistically mention tons of american cultural references over the series and i find nothing wrong with that what so ever...i would simply be a bigot if i thought that

...its not that jack likes baseball...thats a given, ..But its that it was such a HUGE plot point...that a very big part in the show was portrayed through a very american thing...something that I was alien too...i thought that they could have done something more general...still american but less specifically american...AND the fact BENRY likes baseball...when jack laughs he goes all serious like..."no honestly they where 3 down to the yankies then won 8 straight" like they all sat round an watched it an it was quite important to him... the mysterious others where baseball fans....they've lived on an island near the south pacific all their lives yet they love baseball...it annoyed me...donno why it did..but it did...im sorry its annoyed americans who feel its their show...and maybe your right it is...........seem like it now

anyone else think it odd that desmond crashed on that island 3 years ago and kelvin rebuilt the boat and the others never knew about it? apparently they don't travel the island very much. they seem to know everything else, how did this escape their notice?

The concern raised here over the baseball scene escapes me but it misses a larger point. I haven't read all the posts hear so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not but the scene does relate to Jack's life - his father said a couple of times something to the effect of "that'll happen when the Red Sox win the World Series."

In regard to the "others" not knowing about the button in the Swan hatch, I attribute that to the possibility that the others were never part of the Dharma Initiative - they were there before (Ben has been there his whole life). And the Swan hatch was totally sealed off - it took dynamite to blast it open. So there are some things that the others don't know about - even though they have an incredible database from the outside world about the Losties' previous lives.

Valid point even, so you would have thought that dharma would have employed more then two people to push a button of such valid importance and all, I think the strangest thing now is what has happened to the dharma initiative considering they seemed to have forgotten about a button of such importance.

All the button was good for was keeping the island cloaked. It hasn't shown us anything else that would indicate that it was important. When Kelvin & Desmond said "saving the world" they are referring to the beginning of D.H.A.R.M.A., whose main goal was to save the world ("Saving the World" was probably passed down from Swan attendants to other attendants). The island was most likely hidden by the Magnetics in the Swan so that the study would not be interrupted by outside forces. Since the "study" went south (so to speak) they left the Sawn active to keep their Utopia hidden from the outside world. D.H.A.R.M.A might have failed but their goals still live on.

Carlos, while I do think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, you bring up something I might have overlooked.

I'd assumed that the World Series was used because it was such a large event (I hate baseball, but heard about it for weeks), or that it was because they knew that Jack was a baseball fan. Thought this was obvious, however, remembering Benry's reaction, it's almost like they expected Jack to take this like the rest of the news. (of course they had it taped, so maybe not) Benry's reaction wasn't what I would expect if he knew that Jack wouldn't believe him....

just another point on this baseball thing - I don't care if the writers/viewers/producres/NBC.... are American. Jack is. Benry & company sure seem to be. Hanso is an American corp.

Benry needed an unlikely event. Bush gets re-elected? yeah, could make that up. Cristopher Reeve dying? yeah, I'd believe that. The Yankees winning, I'd believe that too. They needed something unbelievable.

Perhaps this article from Boston Globe will help the "woe is us" international crowd. The writers are American. The Red Sox winning the world series and the way they did it was a big part of the American culture, even if you hate sports. You should feel enlightened instead of insulted.

Giving themselves an out

Jack didn't believe Ben because his father always said the Red Sox will never win the world series due to the curse. That is why Jack reacted like that and the others had everything taped most likely brought one tape it and it happend to be the Red Sox. Maybe they heard the conversation between Jack and Sawyer in Exodus (Season 1)and thats how they found out about Jack and the Red Sox. Maybe there is something in one of his back stories. Who the Hell knows!

Bens knowledge about Red Sox probably doesn't go any further than he researched it when they got the tape. It really is quite remarkable and it probably impressed him. I seriously doubt that he sat around and watched it all the games. He said he has lived here all his life, so the games probably don't get broadcasted to secret island in the Pacifc. Also it is a plot point like fishhead saidand it was used to prove that they really have outside contact. You can fake an election there is plenty of footage from the 2000 one and Jack would probably not believe a broadcast of Chris Reeves death but a sports game is something you really can't fake and the Red sox was a good story.

your right...im makin a mountin out of a molehill, but once i started i wanted to get my point across properly...im less annoyed with it now...so there

Has anyone noticed that Desmond and Danielle both crashed on the island after experiencing a very bad storm? I just noticed this.

BABIES!!!All the time Babies!...ummm, im sorry...but that annoys me....one of the many reasons I, an so many non-parent viewers like lost is its diversity...the fact it has no lifestyle restrictions...a lot of people from lots of different countries, cultures and beliefs all stuck on a strange island....so why is it so baby/kid-centric? Why do so many of the major events focus on having kids and babies? I know having babies is the "normal" thing to do, but how are us non-parents supposed to relate? When Sun was puking on the boat because ofher morning sickness....to me, that was the jump the shark moment...no mention of anyone who hasn't had kids...George Bush/Christover Reeve...they both had children!...Great...it may seem petty, but thats partly ruined my enjoyment of a show i absolutley loved

To the above commentor: Guess what? EVERYONE on that island used to be a baby! OH MY GOD!! I guess that makes the show horrible, huh?

Woofie, that is EXACTLY my sarcastic point. The diatribe and subsequent analysis of Lost's use of BASEBALL in "The Glass Ballerina" was nothing short of ponderous.

Forgive the newbie. She wants to read theories about why Ben has been on the island for his whole life and what he really wants from Jack. Not page upon page of people trying to defend why a show produced in the United States would DARE to presume to use American references to make a point. When I watch BBC America, I don't get all bent out of shape because everyone drinks tea instead of coffee and makes fun of the Queen instead of Satan...er...I mean Bush.

But hey. What do I know?
:-)

Carlos, when done for saying you've made a mountain out of a molehill. I think that needed to be said and will hopefully calm a few people down!

The Red Sox reference is a connection to Jack's past and his father. As Jack is American it makes sense that they show him something culturally relevant as well as personally relevant - imagine him seeing footage of a State election in Australia?! Or even the Tsunami (date issues aside) - he may not feel that connected to it. Not because he's callous, but because he's skeptical. They've shown him something he can identify with.

Imagine if Charlie or Sayid or Claire were in the custody of Ben? Charlie could be shown the London bombings or footage of the latest Brit Music awards! Sayid could see Saddam on trial. Claire could see that Prime Minister John Howard was elected again (if the dates are right - not sure on that one).

I'm an Aussie living in the UK. So to my American friends, don't feel that there is anti-US sentiment in any comments on this site. I think most viewers are just impatient and it's a shame that some don't get the nuance of the Red Sox reference. I personally thought it was a powerful scene and the realisation on Jack's face was priceless.

As cool as it may have been, it's better that the writers went down this route, rather than have Ben show Jack a montage of the world-to-date. I'm sure we'll get another taste of information from "the world" in future episodes.

Well, I'm impatient for the next episode!

I know this question doesn't pertain to season three..but I was so confused at the last scene of the alst episode on season two. Who were the guys in the little trailer thing in the snow..and why did they call Desmonds wife Penny?

I read somewhere that after the first six episodes do their run, that they will then be re-aired with extended footage. If that's true, then it explains why these first two episodes have seemed a little lacking. They weren't bad in any respect, but they both left me wanting more. Maybe they'll show how Kate's wrists got bruised up, or maybe a little more interaction between Sawyer and Carl. In fact, I saw a preview of the scene where the 'Silverware' button in Sawyer's cage shot him into the metal bars, and just before he pressed the button he said Carl's name, even though in the episode that aired he hadn't learned his name yet; he says, "If I want your advice, I'll ask for it... Carl." So, perhaps, in extended scenes, Carl introduced himself just before Sawyer pressed the button.

Wow, Carlos. From now on, do yourself a favor and don't watch American TV. Too American for you. Watch the Office and whatever else you want, but not American TV. You are ridiculous. In America, (ABC stands for American Broadcasting Company, BTW) baseball is one of the sports many of us watch. You may prefer Cricket or hunting foxes for game with dogs. You need to get your head out of your ass and watch shows more suited to your Anglocentric viewpoint. Your the one putting off viewers with your ethnocentric viewpoint. Anti-Americanism is just as bad as Anti-Semitism or any other type of prejudice against a people or their culture. Go ask the BBC to make a kick ass show, or go write one yourself. In the meantime, stop watching our american shows.

Here are some of my observations:

1. If they are able to "leave", why then does Ben need the boat? Hmmm, maybe they are in contact with the outsode, but are provided no means to actually make it back to civilization.

2. If the "dig" is so important, why not have Jack working too? Why have Kate in a flimsy dress? Hmmm, maybe there are some more psychological manipulations going on and the atual work has no purpose.

3. Ben could just be in his 30s, but he has demonstrated a total lack of knowledge of baseball (or the writers have - something I doubt). Why? He stated that the Red Sox won "eight straight." Well, the World Series is a best of seven. The Red Sox won the first four in a row to beat the Cardinals.

4. Ben used American news because the Others (maybe not Ben) are American and Jack is an American - they wanted to hit him with news that he would be intimately familiar with. If Ben had used european news or Aussie news, Jack would not have given one flip. In this case the Red Sox news was a major psychological blow - you saw Juliett hit him with some in the previous episode and now you have more - they are in the process of breaking or indoctinrating Jack, possible ala the Stockholm Sydrome. Will it work? I hope not, but it certainly won't work with Sawyer.

You are damn right the Sox winning was a major psych moment! I LIVE in Boston and it's still hard to belive they pulled it off, being down and out like that. The underdogs came back and swept the remaining games with the evil empire... Kiss that curse goodbye!

I guess you could say that it was another MIRACLE for Jackers to behold!

Now, I'm a bit confused, did Christian say "WHEN" or "IF" the Sox win the world series to Jack and Sawyer?

Off-topic but I couldn't resist posting. I love the Sox, even tho they are out this season... I have a goldfish named Varitek, alas, my Manny-fish died yesterday... We got them in September of '04...

Pretty sure it was "WHEN" sort of like saying "When hell freezes over."

ha ha ...your great mate - the type of person im actualy glad i offended

So does anyone know the answer to my question??? About why the men in the snow trailer called Desmonds wife Penny?

I may be wrong, but if my memory serves me correctly... the Red Sox came from way behind in the AL Championship Series against the Yankees to win four games in a row. Add those games to the four in a row against the Cardinals and you've got your total of 8. I can't believe I just posted a comment about the Red Sox...what is this world coming to?

Missbb25....they called her Ms Widmore, not penny...but if they had called here penny...i'd be because thats her name...Penny's short for Penelope ...and we where meant to assume that they where in some kind of electromagetic obsevation post..trying to find the island, which they did due to the hatch fail safe releasing the magnets pulse... hope that answers your question

Dann -- HA!
And you are correct sir. They did indeed come back with 4 wins in a row to beat the Yankees and proceeded to sweep the Cards in 4 games. That's 8 games in a row..

So I suppose Christian's comment was like a "When pig's fly!" kind of sentiment? lol. I suppose the losties world has indeed now gone topsy-turvy...