CLAIRE!

ALEX!

Don, how can you have seen the episode before it aired?

Lost is back with a VENGEANCE!!!!!! I didn't think it could get much better, but it has, and my jaw is on the floor! First the huge blowout fight, then Smokey, and now the hunt for Penny! JUst AMAZING!!!

Best...Episode...EVER!!!!

Dammit. We don't get ABC, so we have to wait until tomorrow to watch it online. Dammit. Dammit.

penelope widmore CANNOT die. ugh

charles whitmore IS Alvar Hanso !

YEP!!!!SURE IS

I completely agree... Widmore is older than old... he was on the black rock.. and does anyone else think that it's obvious that ben has learned how to essentially teleport/time travel? and that when he went into his little secret room that he "left the island".. went to 2005..

Extremely predictable episode all the way around. The dominoes they set up in previous episodes fell exactly as I expected them to. The show lacked suspense. I don't why I knew the smoke monster was going to kill the soldiers. When Ben walked into Widmore's place I said to myself "this is going to set up some awesome Ben get's revenge on Widmore by attempting to kill Penny (don't worry, he won't kill her because it would set up bad writing and the Lost writers have maintained fundamental writing logic too this point)episodes." Little did I knew they would kill the suspense by having Ben announce it to Widmore. Based on past writing this should have been broached in about 3-6 episodes down the line rather than taking all the mystery out of it by announcing his intentions. I guess the strike is going to have an adverse effect on the remaining episodes as they have to cram information in rather than let it flow in naturally.
I liked the episode, it was entertaining, not close to the best one though.

Why did Ben have Halliwax's jackets, winter jacket?

well isn't blutoschmooto just mr. billy badass?

This was a fantastic episode. A masterpiece. I have a new theory brewing now - this is a GAME between Ben and Charles. A huge cosmic GAME. I thought the scene with Locke, Sawyer and Hurley playing Risk was a beautiful metaphor. There was some distinct language that supports this idea, most notably Ben saying (and later repeating) "He [Charles] changed the rules" and calling Alex "a pawn." There have been many instances of games on the Island, which could be metaphors for the overlying plot (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Games)

This is not at all inconsistent with some time travel theories, which were further confirmed with Ben's appearance in 2005, a year after the events on the island. Also, if Charles is Alvar Hanso - perhaps Ben is actually someone else as well. (Or Ben is really Ben, but his 'real world' name is Dean Moriarty. And Charles's real world name is Charles Widmore, but he is actually Alvar Hanso.) All these other things could play into the bigger plot of a cosmic game between Ben and Charles. And the Island is the key to winning the game. (As Hurley said, "everyone knows controlling Australia is the key to the game.)

It's a rough theory, but I like some of the possibilities it opens up...

NYNY173 (and anyone else that has something to contribute):

Isn't Alvar Hanso a descendent (great grandson or something) of Magnus Hanso (who was on the Black Rock)? So Widmore is most likely Magnus Hanso (or someone else on that boat - either way, really old - but I would bank on Magnus -why give history to another/peripheral/crew member?).

Interseting. Everything about this episode was.

As for "predictable"...I don't think so. I guess if you thought too hard you could trace the bread crumbs of some events, but - letting it flow freely - it was a great episode in-line of a 50-minute movie. I loved it. And, at this moment, I really think it was (the)...

Best...Episode...EVER!!!!

That was definitely the most intense episode of Lost I have ever seen! And as for it being predictale, if you watched the preview, it was easy to tell that the frieghter people were the ones that killed Karl and Rousseau and kidnapped Alex, but other than that, this episode was in no way "predictable". But did anyone notice that Ben smiled after Sayid killed his wife's supposed murderer and that he seemed to get really dirty after calling Smokey?

Sawyer has amazing dodging skills. A very good episode indeed.

The doctor on the boat had a scar on his face. The dead doctor had the same scar, with the stitches not yet removed.

Dean Moriarty is a dude fm a Jack Kerouac book "On the Road". Whats up w the literary references?? : )

Liked the episode a lot.

One thing that irritated me though, and it had nothing to do with the actual episode, is I went on a lost blog (and the only three I go to are this one, darkufo and docarzt) and one of them had a little spoiler type thing saying that someone would be shot in the head, but added "it's not who you're probably thinking if you saw the promo".

And then it WAS the one that everyone would expect, seeing the promo. I can't find that little tidbit now, but that just made me irritated that there would be the site guy flat out lying about the spoiler on something as stupid as that.

He could have just not posted anything about that (and I thought it was cool, wasn't angry at being spoiled or anything) but why throw it out there and then try some half-ass misdirection and say "oh but it's not who you think!" and then it's EXACTLY who we think.

*shrugs*

lol

Holy crap the black smoke grew some 600 ft. and it's the baddest motherufkcer in the world! That scene was nuts!

If things go the way they are now...i see a Sayid/Desmond clash in a flashforward. That will be the ultimate episode. I Love LOST

This episode rivals "The Constant" and "Through the Looking Glass" (among others) as the BEST EPISODE of the entire series.

Damn!

Alex's death was shocking, so was Dr Ray's fate. Best of all was Cerberus's appearance. What WAS in that tunnel? And why was the Arabic not translated?

Absolutely loved this episode.

It is not possible that Ben has a clone, is it? The bunny was cloned in the Orchid orientation video, so it might be possible for Ben. I guess this is how the polar bear was excavated in the desert though.

Ben couldn't have teleported to 2005 when he ran into his little panic room. When he appeared in Iraq he had a cut on his right arm, which he didn't have on the island.

let me say this..from a soldier that has been in iraq in 2005 an american would not have been "chillin" in a cafe' and not have been shot by a local. And the soldiers uniforms....common invest in some research once in a while.....

Judging from the "he changed the rules", "you know I can't kill you", and "it has always been my island and will be again" comments, I'm starting to think that this is all a God (Ben) vs. Widmore (Devil) scenario. Given Lost's countless biblic references, this isn't out of the question, is it?

Did anyone else catch Charles Widmore calling Ben "boy" at the end. Leads one to believe that perhaps Charles knew Ben as a youngster.

I don't know if anyone caught it or think it meant anything. but in the very beginning of the episode, when Hurley is playing the board game he says something like "Australia is the key to the game" is this a coincidence?

So Charles and Ben can't die off the island ... perhaps for the same reason Michael and Jack can't die either? We only got that confirmation for Charles, though Ben certainly acted like he didn't expect to get killed.

Anybody else notice the jacket that Ben had on when he woke up in Tunisia? That must have been an Orchid station logo, but the name on the left breast said HALLOWAX, which was the name Marvin Candle used in the Orchid video. But what interests me is this question: was Ben wearing that jacket because he came from someplace cold, or because he came from the island and didn't know where he would end up?

I'm a little confused as to how we see the boat captain in next weeks preview. I thought he would have gotten killed by the smoke monster. Did I miss something?

My name is Bond, Ben Bond. Who is this guy? Cutting two Arabs down in the desert with Bond like precision. I think Widmore and Ben are related. BEN, I AM YOUR FATHER, without the Darth Vader mask. You heard it here first.

Charles is Ben's father.

My thoughts are that Ben has learned to control whatever it was that made Desmond time jump, so he is able to switch between times and places. Which would be why he asked what the date was.
I think Charles Widmore was on the shipped that crashed on the island, Ben says that he can't kill him, which to me means he was once on the island b/c me know that the people that have been on the island can't seem to die when they are off the island. And we also have seen that people on the island don't age all that much, so there is a chance that Mr. Widmore is alot older then he looks. Or he was a child on the island and wants to go back, the first theory I like better though.
I think that the smoke monster is the islands own security system. It will hurt or kill anyone with ill intentions for the island. Ben probably has the ability to call the smoke monster and show he where to work. But before this the monster never killed anyone else b/c no one on the island wants to hurt the island in anyway they just wanted to get off, and when Locke came face to face with it he was not scared b/c the island knows that Locke would never hurt it.
As for Sawyer not dying or even getting hit with the mirage of bullets shot at him, I think the island had something to do with that. There is no way that with that much fire power he would have been missed.

God damn....
Lets dispense with the pleasantries: BEST Show Ever. period.
My question: why was Ben wounded when he "teleported" to the desert? something must have gone wrong...

This episode gave us a lot of information for a one-hour installment. Maybe too much. I believe an element of Lost’s success is its creative weaving of story lines. I think giving us too much information removes some of the suspense. On the other hand, I appreciate the writers and production staff giving us a full season in fewer episodes. The time restraints force the accelerated pace. I really liked the episode and kudos to the writers for another job well done. Some questions were answered but more questions were introduced for us to ponder. The mystery of this island is still very much alive and well.

WHAT LIES BEFORE US AND WHAT LIES BEHIND US ARE TINY MATTERS TO WHAT LIES WITHIN US—

RALPH WALDO EMERSO

I think were given a hint, when Hurley said "Australia is the key to the game". That statement made me remember the psychic telling Rose there are certain spots on the earth with powers. When Ben "teleported" to the desert, it made me wonder if that is the same desert that the polar bear remains were discovered in. Could Sayid be Ben's constant, whatever it is, it explains Ben's never ending knowledge on people's back grounds, if he can move foward and back in time (on and off the island). I wonder if the special spots mentioned to Rose, could be used as portals around the world and time. Also, if Ben is now wanting to kill Penelope, could that be the reason Desmond is on the island, did he allow him to find it as insurance policy, that or did Widmore send Desmond in a race around the world hoping he might end up on the island and be away from his daughter. The writing on the show is superb, and I have many theories, I could share on this show, but I happend to be a work.

I have a theory about the desert. I think there are several time portals throughout the world and that the polar bears are a key to piecing that together. We didn't understand how they ended up on the island, or how they ended up in the desert. When Desmond turned the failsafe key, a tanker in an arctic environment contacted Penny Widmore. Could the magnetism reached them through a portal from the island? If so, it would explain how a polar bear could have gotten onto the island, through this portal, and also how a polar bear could have ended up in the same desert that Ben wound up in.

quote from above should be from Ralph Waldo Emerson cut and past error

Could penlope be annie (ben's childhood girlfriend)???

The Game theory is interesting especially Hurley's comments about Australia (an island, btw). But if you read an interview with him that was posted on this site last week or sometime, he said that he added stuff to his scene in the mental institution to throw people off and see if anyone thinks its part of the mythology.

But really, I think that its just an analogy for the whole situation and not an actual game.

What about the quick shot of a woman picking up a child in the Ben Sayid sequence. Shortly after another shot has a woman out of focus in the background. You heard it here first folks, Nadia is alive. Master manipulator Ben has done it again.

First, we already know what's wrong with Jack -- the preview for next week already revealed that it's his appendix about to burst. I also guessed that Ben was controlling the monster, because we were told it was going to make an appearance, and something new would be revealed about it. Since Ben needed a major weapon to survive the freighter seige, it made sense that the monster would be that weapon.

Still, I was most surprised that Ben appeared to physically teleport/timeshift to Tunisia. I thought the writers were staying with mind transport only (into your future/past body), so that a paradox is avoided.

The Ben that appears in Tunisia is from the last episode of the season. Ben and the rest end up in the Orchid, Ben is hurt(shot) and time jumps.

Ben probably does not control "Smokey" per say. All he probably dis was turn off the entire sound barrier that allowed Smokey access to the camp. Perhaps Ben has a way to attract Smokey or Smokey is just drawn to that location or maybe to people with hostile ententions?

As for Widmore or Ben being God or Devil, no I doubt God would get sick after time travel, teleportation, whatever. More likely, Widmore wants the island for whatever technology is secreted there. Ben, having lead the revolt that killed off the science team is keeping the location from Widmore. The island itself is displaced by a magnetic field that distorts its location hiding it from satellites. Passing ships and planes cannot see it unless you come right up on it. If the island is off main trade and shipping routes which might explain why so few ships/planes come accross it.

Lots of holes in all of these theories, this one included. I still think the writers and creators have written too complex a story with too many twists/turns/contradictions, etc. But I will watch like most of you to see how they tie it all together. We did get one answer last night, when Ben said he had taken the baby from a crazy lady. That explains how he got "his daughter".

I think the islands time/space anomaly offers immortality.

Charles Widmore has clearly been on the island before and needs to return. He is old and seems to be aging rapidly. The island may be offering him eternal life but he has to be connected to it to live forever. Time can be manipulated on the island.

Im sensing more greek mythology references. Like Widmore is Zeus in some way.

Has any other god taken something from Zeus in greek mythology?

Why was Sayid so quick to believe Ben's story?
Because if Ben wanted Sayid dead, Sayid would be dead by now. I didn't even think this would be a sticking point for anyone. Sayid heard about Michael working for Ben against Widmore, why wouldn't he believe Ben's story about Widmore's men killing Nadia?

What's wrong with Jack?
Not enough evidence yet, which I applaud them for. It is much more interesting to get tidbits of the problem over the course of a few episodes than to have Jack blurt out "I am having stomach problems that will kill me if I don't get off the island, they are all linked to the islands ability to freeze me in time." I do agree with those who say that the time sickness is the most logical choice thus far, but that seems to easy for the writers. Maybe the island is giving him an ulcer because it wants him to leave so he can do work for the island back home?

Is the doctor dead, alive, or both at the same time? Both at the same time. I doubt the doctor slit his own throat. If Michael and the Doctor and the Captain were left alone on the ship, it would be fairly easy for Michael to make them both dissappear and then take the ship off course. Though Sayid and Desmond may have overtaken the ship since all the armed men left to invade the island.

Did Ben teleport and/or time travel to the Sahara?
I say teleported. I'm sure he has the ability to time travel, but my guess is you get some what disoriented from teleporting and need to ask about time and other constants so you don't go insane. Ben definitely did not go to the Sahara in this episode as people have pointed out he had a Winter coat on and an arm wound.

Why can't Ben kill Widmore? Are they connected in some strange way?
I think Ben can and will kill Widmore, I think it is more figurative. If he kills Widmore the show doesn't have any suspense. Widmore has a secret of the island or perhaps is one of the few who can talk to Jacob and Ben will need him to unlock the final secret of the island, that is the only reason he is still alive. If Ben goes after Penny, he is no longer one of the "good guys." That murder is not for protection of the island which is his big thing. For that reason Ben may attempt to kill Penny, but he will never succeed because he must remain a good guy.

Can Ben instruct Smokey who to kill? How much control does he have over it?
Smokey kills those who threaten the island and evil people. I think Ben knows how to manipulate it, but not command it. If he could command it what is the point of the fence? Was the fence put up by Dharma to protect themselves against the islands defense mechanism? Why would Ben build a chemical plant to kill everyone on the island if he could have smokey do that? Why would Ben keep the fence on if he could control Smokey? I think he coexists with the monster as Steve Irwin coexisted with crocadiles, they could function together, but he couldn't train them to do what he wanted. It won't happen, but if Ben kills Penny, when he returns to the island the smoke monster will kill him.

What did Widmore mean when he said the island has always been his, and how is Ben hiding it from him?
I'm with those who believe Widmore is tied to the Black rock. Is he Hanso? I doubt it. Could he have been a deckhand with Richard and they have not aged in real time? Possibly. I think the island hides itself. How it does that is the mystery. It is linked to the way the light scatters and the way Jacobs cabin can disappear or camoflouge itself. I'm sure they give us a few more clues as we go, but doubt anyone is losing sleep over the mechanics of how it is stealthed.

Another point... Ben said "is it the year 2005?" which it is. However when he's talking to Sayid, Sayid says "I was searching for my wife for 8 years... but the crash was in 2004, Sayid hadn't been looking for her for 7 years previously before the crash... so I'm confused, perhaps he was saying he had been looking for her for 8 years after the crash? But that would mean it was like the year 2012...

If I may say, what's so wrong with trusting Ben? For me, I'd rather be on Ben's side than against him. Simply put. If Ben wanted me to do something, I'd do it, cuz I know Ben would give me a "reward" if Ben gave me his word. I would have made the same decision as Sayid. Ben knows a lot.

What did Widmore mean when he told Ben "I know WHAT you are"?

To me, when Ben went through the secret passage in the hidden room, all I could think of was what is this Indiana Jones; it had a fiery tint to the lighting. The whole night, I could only think of the map that was drawn on the door in the first hatch discovered by lock. The smoke monster on that map was called Cerberus, I don’t actually think it is the guardian of Hades, but I assume it is called that, and for a reason. With his daughter's death he wanted unleash hell, and it sure did look like that is what it did, similar to when Ecko wouldn’t repent for the life he lived. He has to have a way of waking it up, and he had to know it wouldn’t go after him, and emphasized to sawyer and crew to run to the tree line. The soldiers working for widmore just had a killing spree, and could have been all the smoke monster (Cerberus) to attack them. The reason I think this, is because when it chased down Kate and Juliet, it turned to a calming white light, very different from Ecko's fate.

What is beneath the island, what is going on in the temple with Richard and the others?

Now to where Widmore says the island has always been mine, could of have been on the original boat that crashed on the island, and left the island to have his child Penelope. During that time, Ben took the island from right under his nose, and he has no way of returning. What else does a wealthy man want, eternal life maybe? That is the only reason I can think of that life can’t be giving there by birth, wouldn’t the island become over populated if everyone was having kids but no one was dying. I originally thought the island was the Garden of Eden, and I am starting to return back to my original theory. I am pretty sure, Widmore doesn’t know why the island is magical, that is why he has so many scientist, and not sure about Ben, but the one that probably will have every answer to what smokey is to why that statue only had four toes will be Jacob.

I will take a break from my chatter to give your eyes a break.... more to come

The Island could be Eden and Ben and Charles could be Cain and Abel. Jacob could be Adam.

The buzz here at my office is that people think Widmore and Ben are each other's constant - hence why they won't/can't kill the other. I think it might make sense.

I'm also puzzled by is there both physical teleportation and mental teleportation? Clearly Desmond was in the chopper/boat when he found himself back in Scotland/England, but Ben looks like he may have traveled in a wormhole or something to Tunisia (probably the same hole a polar bear fell into) - so is there both?

"Another point... Ben said "is it the year 2005?" which it is. However when he's talking to Sayid, Sayid says "I was searching for my wife for 8 years... but the crash was in 2004, Sayid hadn't been looking for her for 7 years previously before the crash... so I'm confused, perhaps he was saying he had been looking for her for 8 years after the crash? But that would mean it was like the year 2012..."

Actually, Sayid WAS looking for her for 7 years--that was central to his character for the first couple of seasons. So it's definitely 2005 in that scene.

"What's wrong with Jack?
Not enough evidence yet"

Actually, they already told us it's appendicitis.

Jack Sawyer and Dav you two are crazy smart. I completely didnt think of Cain and Abel, or them being each other constant.

You might be on to something Dav, with each other being their constants. And for Cain and Abel, that would fit a little better if Richard and Jacob were Cain and Abel. I cant remember exactly who it was written (I might have it backwards) but my boss and I were thinking the bible says, after Cain killed Abel he sent them out to live with the others???

It also could be possible Ben has tried to kill Widmore before and couldnt like Micheal couldn't kill himself.

If Ben does perhaps control Cerberus aka "Smokey" then why would he have had the following killed?
1) The pilot in the very first episode- Maybe Ben feared the pilot revealing to much info to the Losties on where they crash landed or are near to?
2) Smokey trying to capture Locke and take him underground towards the end of Season 1- Ben knew who Locke was and knew he was special so he used Smokey to capture Locke and bring him in but good ol Jack foiled that plan. Thus explaining Ben looking for Locke on his own this time when we see first are introduced to him in Season 2.
3) The killing of Mr.Eko- Ben probably felt threatened by him and wanted him killed since Eko killed a couple of Ben's people. Perhaps Eko was finding out too much about where the Stations were located and Ben sent Smokey in after him.
4) Smokey going after Kate and Juliet- Don't know about this one but anyone can give opinion.
5) Finally, Smokey killing off the soldiers sent by Ben- Obviously Ben was PISSED and enlarged Smokey to wipe out all of the soldiers explaining why Smokey was about 500 feet long!
Anyone want to elaborate with me on Smokey and his reasons for kills possibly sent by Ben?

Except I just lost a ton of respect for smokey. If you look at the sneak peak for next week, at least 4 soldiers survived his attack. That's ridiculously ineffective.

Also, how did people get that Charles is Alvar Hanso from that episode?

Theory-
In "The Economist" I have the feeling Sayid was looking for Penny!
Just some thoughts. In "The Shape of THings to Come" Ben tells Windmore that he's going to kill his daughter. Then Windmore tells him that he will never find her. A few scenes before, Ben told Sayid that he would contact him soon. It seems as if Ben has tricked Sayid into tracking down Penny, not Windmore. Obviously Ben can get to Windmore and apparantly he can't kill him. So in "THe Economist",which takes place after "THe Shape of Things to Come", Sayid was actually tracking down Penny. Further he probably has know Idea that its Penny he's after. I have the feeling that when Sayid realizes,who he's after,he will be conflicted on whether to kill her. Ultimatly he won't want to kill Dez's "Lady" because of all the women he has LOST himself.
Then he will probably contact Penny and try to find away Back To the Island.
Season 5 will include Sayid and Penny getting the other 6 together to go back for everyone else. In the End they will find the Island before Windmore can and all be back together on the Island. Lastly, Ill throw this theory out there. Lock,with help (Jacob?), will take control of the Island and hIde it from Ben and Windmore and Everyone will live Happily ever after......
What do you all thinK?

I don't know if someone said this or not but I just watched the episode again. Claire said to Sawyer that she was alright, bumped but not dead yet. Miles then said I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Good, Miles said that because they were under attack by the Freighters (Soldiers). So at any moment, Claire could get shot dead by one of them, which didn't happen thank god. And did anybody notice this...right before Lost started a quick flash came up saying "THE MOLE WAS HERE" ?

Wow...this "Constant" theory is great! I want to expound on it a bit:

Ben wants to kill Penny. Penny is Desmond's constant. If Ben kills Penny, Desmond will die.

Desmond is Daniel Farraday's constant. If Penny dies, Desmond dies, and Farraday dies.

hmmm...is Farraday someone else's constant? Charles could be Ben's constant, as stated before. This "constant" business could end up killing everyone!

Yeah,
I'm not sure how much of this constant theory has been worked out. Has it been stated that once you start jumping that you need your constant for more than just one thing? I took from the episode that you just needed a constant if you were ungrounded. Once you were ungrounded and then found your constant, then you would be grounded again. Once you were grounded, then you wouldn't need your constant again. Else, we could expect Desmond to start flipping out constantly if he couldn't talk to Penny every day.

Yo Franky:
I don't think Ben actually controls Smokey per se but has a way to unleash it on anything threatning the Island...like on our Losties u mentioned. I mean if he did, why would he have that electro magnetic field protect his own people since he could tame the damn thing? It's really hard to answer this question at this point of the show since we still don't have enuf nfos on Smokey's make up anyways. Is it the manifestion of all the original Island inhabitants? Search me....What we do know, is that it's not some nanotechnological device, meaning it's not controlled by human beings. It's not some organic creature either...On the other hand I always thought Smokey was there to keep Jacob trapped in that "intermediate hell" he lives in....Hell what do I know....

Jeremy,

Prometheus stole fire from Zeus/the gods... does that work for your analogy? Ben as Prometheus...

Ben can't control the smoke monster but it seems he can summon it. The reason I say this is because he has everyone run to the tree line. Why would they have to hide if he could control it.

When hurley said "Australia..Australia is the key to the game"

I Thought WOW!! Biggest clue ever!!

I believe that was a straight clue to what lost is all about!!

I am not sure if this has been posted yet, but my friend Jon had a great theory about why Ben cant kill Widmore. They are each others constant, or Charles is at least Ben's constant.

I think you guys are letting this episode off way to easy. Yet another secret passage. Sawyer dodging bullets. Ben hanging out in a war zone. I had this incredible feeling while watching the show that all all along the producers and writers had no idea where to go with the show and have only recently come up with the Ben/Widmore story line as a way to wrap all the questions they've created, but in reality have no answers for. It's like Alias all over again. To me the beauty of Lost is how the mysteries of the island are revealed to the plane crash survivors, sometimes violent and sometimes beautiful. Ben has taken us away from that, away from the island, away from the cast and away from the mysteries that made the show so interesting. I still want one question answered and it is the best of all: Who are the Others?

People were sayin stuff at the top about Widmore being Alvar Hanso...and the question was asked "Why does widmore feel that he own's the island?"

I don't know if anyone else said anything, but I'm pretty sure Widmore just funded Hanso's project and founded the dharma initiative. Thats why he would claim ownership to it. He's a loaded "tyrant". Someone with that much money would believe that if he payed for it, it was his to possess.

Is anyone else with me on that or am I way wrong?

Something I don't quite understand.... in the last scene between Ben and Widmore, Ben says you'll never find the island. But at this point, hasn't Widmore already found the island (hence the Freighties' arrival?)

ALEX ISNT BENS DAUGHTER SO TECHNICALLY WIDMORE DIDNT KILL ''BENS DAUGHTER'' lol

AND I AGREE WITH Lmz27 THAT HES ALREADY FOUND THE ISLAND NOW IN THE PRESENT SO WHATS STOPPIN WIDMORE IN THE FUTURE FINDING IT AGAIN (EVEN IF HE FINDS IT NOW THEN CUMS OF THE ISLAND WOULDNT HE STILL NO WHERE IT IS)?

o and have we been told why DESMOND was in prison yet i cant remember if they told us ..lol

When Widmore says...'I know what you are' -I believe that he is referring to Ben being a clone. Widmore makes this statement with disgust and disdain.

Maybe the clones took the island away from the originals...?
Attack of the clones?
:)

Just a few thoughts regarding Widmore having been aboard the Black Rock and therefore being much older than he appears: I agree that he is not Magnus Hanso - I think that he was the First Mate. When we saw him at the 1996 antiquities auction in "The Constant", I believe he was purchasing his own journal for the information it contained which would help him find The Island. Maybe Ben's fight is Hanso's fight too? I, like a few others who have posted, noticed that Widmore said to Ben something akin to "Remember boy, I know who you really are. I know what you are." Whatever it is that we discover is going on between Charles and Ben; it's obviously got a very long history. Nuff said.

When are we going to hear about the Orchid?!

Did anyone besides me notice the painting of the Black Rock was in Charles Widmore's room? Shame on everyone for missing it! I don't have much to say though, I completely missed that Ben was wearing a jacket with Halliwax on it. I was too interested in the Dharma Logo and the fact he would still wear it, as well as how he ended up in the dessert with a hurt arm. Ben is the best ever. He's my favorite character. But I was very saddened by Alex's death, and Miles and the red shirts were hilarious to me! I love LOST.

Did anyone else find it interesting that during almost the entire scene w/Ben and Charles Widmore, one half of their face was visible, and the other was in the shadow - black and white- hasn't that had ongoing significance?

Anyone notice the writting on the stone door leading into the "smokey control chamber" ? I don't have HD so I couldn't really make out any symbols... Too bad Fox Mulder isn't on the island he would have figured out everything by now.

"Did anyone else find it interesting that during almost the entire scene w/Ben and Charles Widmore, one half of their face was visible, and the other was in the shadow - black and white- hasn't that had ongoing significance?" - EJ

Good eye, EJ. I'm sure that was intentional.

This is the kind of stuff that's really worth finding, and that makes LOST rise above the pack - not the crazy mythology stuff, but the subtleties of light and dark, good and evil, connections between people.

Anyone else notice that the logo on Ben's jacket in the desert looks just like the logo from "The Time Tunnel" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060036/)

HERES A QUESTION...

did ben teleport to the future DURING the episode?!...

like right after his daughter got killed?

Maybe the owie on his arm can give us some clues.

-J

-ben didnt teleport when he went into the room because the arm injury would present a continuity problem.
-ben does not have super powers and is not a clone.
-speaking as one living in england: what was up with widmore's accent? it was all over the shop..
-annie and Pen. are very, very unlikely to be the same person...although i could be wrong.
-wouldnt be surprised if widmore and jacob were somehow the same person. this is not to say it will be the case, but i wouldnt be surprised. could explain the brickdust/ash apparantly "trapping" jacob.
-ben probably can not control smokey, merely point him in the right direction. none of the soliders appear to have died in the previews and ben wanted camp locke as far from the tree-line & mercs as possibe.
-was ben only "allowed" to use smokey after widmore "changed the rules"? it seemed to me that he had resolved to do something which he would previously not have considered.

I cant believe it! what an episode! To be honest i was actually GLAD that Alex died. She hasn't been a major character and at least now we get to see a truely pissed off Ben! i think the writers realised they don't have time to cover the back story of Alex/Ben and Rousseau anymore now that we are on flashforwards so simply removed them!lol

I agree that Ben cannot control smokey as such but just 'Activate him'.. as someone else said earlier he would not of told the losties to run to the tree's if he knew he could control it.
Widmore is i believe one of the original Leaders of the others..Ben somehow overthrew him maybe while he was off the island, and then made sure he hasn't been able to get back. I loved how Widmore called him 'Boy'..suggesting perhaps he feels 'above' him and still in control.

REALLY need to see Dez in a flashforward soon!!! need to know he survives!!!

Ben and Chas are not each other's constants - you have to care for your constant.

AMikels - not necessarily. You might be thinking of this due to Des and Penny - but remember at the end of The Constant Faraday says that Desmond is his constant - they clearly don't have much of a relationship or connection. You simply need to know someone that straddles both time periods so that you are grounded. It could be that Ben and Widmore have been at this for a long long time and use each other for grounding if needed.

Dont know i anyone tought of this yet. But could it be that ben cannot kill charles becaus of the same reasons michael cant die. "The Island wont let him". Someone posted a theory about widmore being on the black rock. That could very well be the reason why ben cant kill him. Widmore, just as michael were once stranded on that isaland and they both left the island. All the ocenaic six will suffer the same fate. They can only die on the island once they reached it.

comment this please. love discussing lost

Dav,

I am thinking that because Faraday told Des that. Besides in the academic world - someone gives me the code for time travel and all the acalades that could come with it - they would mean alot to me! :)

I am looking forward to seeing when these rules were first set in place.

Andy

Ben and Chas are not each other's constants - you have to care for your constant.

Posted By AMikels | April 28, 2008 9:22 AM

Hey AMikels...maybe they are constants, Ben and Widmore. Why else would Ben say, "He broke the rules." Constants care and look for eachother. Widmore broke the rules by having his Freight people kill Ben's "daughter". Constant's look after eachother, not shoot there loved ones. I don't know, what do you think?

did any one notice the picture/painting in widmores penthouse suite ( A SHIP ) maybe its the black rock ship

and when ben leaves widmores penthouse suite there is another picture/painting outside the room (and it looks like a painting of the island to me because im sure u can see othersville)

SO maybe the island was originslly widmore

GET BK IF U NOTICED THIS TOO????

I think the question we all need to ask and well obsess about is what Smokey actually is.

1. Is he a set of highly sophisticated Nano Machines?
2. Is he an ancient being (Guardian) created/Controled by the people that created the Temple/The Foot Statue

The clues will be there, knowing J.J's work the answers are already contained within the narrative, a huge enigma code we all need to decipher.

Any thoughts?

I just wanna know what the deal with Jacob is... What/Who is he? =-Z

i really wanted to know the story between master Ben and Alex´s mother
was he the biological faher??
it looks like we will never know, since the carachters are dead
---
and once again Jack was crying in an episode--

I think that Ben goes back in time to tell Widmore that he is going to kill his daughter, and that leads to Widmore looking for the Island in the first place, as Widmore doesn't know where the Island is in the scene with Ben, but in Island time he has got the Freighties there so he must know. I think thats what the whole thing is about re Widmore looking for the Island...