Year of the Dragon was 2000 - Jin's headstone read 9/22/2004. Flashback *and* Flashforward.

Zing!

the headstone said 9/22/04...according to the timeline on the island, wouldn't it be around christmas 2004???

That was amazing!!! I pretty much guessed that it was going to be Michael so no big shock, but that ending threw me for a loop! The entire time I thought he was racin t see Sun and then he says he's only been married for two months. And then Sun and Hurly going to the grave of JIN! WHAT!!!! I am so LOST right now. This is hy I love this show, just whe you think you know what's goingo happen they just change it up. Brilliant!

Haha, I knew Micheal would come back, just didn't know how. But, there is certainly something going on with suicide here. The woman with the chains and the blood splatter in the room. I think the island "depresses" the people. But the preview for the next episode said someone will die, so I guess we'll have to wait! Also, I'm wondering how Jin died. When Hurley visited Sun, is that after, during, or before going to the mental house. Next episode should clear up a lot of things (but also ask some more questions!)

Jin in the coffin!!

Or is the coffin empty? Rule number 1 in Lost: If you don't see the character die and get buried, they aren't dead (and even then they aren't dead, eh Paolo and Nicky?). My guess is Jin is still on the island. A fake death is the only way Jin could make a clean break from Sun's father. This will give Sun reason to get back to the island in season 5/6.

Michael was a huge letdown. We all knew it was coming, yet we only see him for a few seconds. Would have been nice to actually get to hear from Michael tonight, but what's another week when your character has been awol since season two. What was the alias he took? Kevin Johnson? Can't wait for the easter eggs on that one as the first Kevin Johnson I think of is the former Phoenix Suns point guard who is currently running for mayor of some town in California, Sacramento is it?

Since this is Lost, though it was average it was still enjoyable. Any other show and I would have rated this episode a waste of time.

9/22/04 is the date of the crash right? So he can't possibly be one of the 6

Jin stays on the island so that Sun can live. He is "dead" to the world, but not for real.

Does anyone think that Michael didn't know who Sayid or Desmond was or he was just pretending.. I thought he was pretending not to know them because by the look of his face, he definitively looked scared to see them. But my friend thought he really didn't know them. Any thoughts?

if jin is faking his death, why was sun talking to his headtone?? i mean COME ON

Kevin Johnson is also a ventriloquist - Michael is Ben's puppet. Or something.

Jin is still on the island. This was a way for Sun to talk to Jin to tell him about the baby. The gravesite is a mysterious body that was used to cover up the fact that there were survivors like the Captain spoke about with Sayid and Desmond. That is why the date of the crash is the date of the death on the grave

Jin was a flashback. Sun was a flashforward.

"Does anyone think that Michael didn't know who Sayid or Desmond was or he was just pretending.. I thought he was pretending not to know them because by the look of his face, he definitively looked scared to see them. But my friend thought he really didn't know them. Any thoughts?"

Umm..did you watch any of the shows? He left the door open for them, he left a note for them....

He was worried about protecting himself and Desmond and Sayid in case they flipped out and went "Hey Mike, long time". The captain would love that.

I can't believe that needed explaining.

Jin is probably dead. The writers don't mind killing people off. However, there obviously is a big coverup going on in the future as to the real fate of the flight, so it is possible that somehow Jin got stuck on the island. No body, no death for sure.

Hmm, with Micheal on the boat, it makes you wonder if Walt really is on the island. But, of course, when my main man Mista Locke was talking to his people that he took directions from Walt, he said that he was a lot taller. Now how is that possible?

Michael is Ben's "Inside Man" on the boat. Michael is following Ben's orders in order to get Walt back

you guys said that it was a flash-forward and a flash-back to confuse us. When he got the Panda, it was for Son's dad or whatever, and they had only been married for 2 months, meaning she was in the affair. Is that why they stuck the part in there where Juliet told him? And was the stone put there when they really did think he had died in the crash, but really he is just back on the island, which means that he's NOT one of the Oceanic 6? They just left the stone to pretend he really is dead, because if you watched like 3 or so weeks ago, Sayid is now working for Ben, and Ben said that the people still on the island had to be protected to keep them safe...

I'll tell you what the afterthoughts are. THIS SHOW IS TERRIBLE NOW! Thank you writers of lost for ruining a perfectly good show. It just keeps going on and on and never gets anywhere and ends up giving FAR more questions than it answers. Every week I've sat and watched hoping for something to happen, every week I'm disappointed. No wonder the ratings are plummetting, the show SUCKS now!

Guys, I think we all know that Michael is Ben's man on the boat. You people have to look for clues. In the previews for next weeks episode, we see a part where Michael has on some kind of head piece with a mic. Perhaps he is informing Ben or an Other on the island about an attack that is bound to happen. Remember the guys on the Freighter gearing up with machine guns? Yeah, looks like an attack on the island which is also why Ben wants his daughter away from Locke's camp. They want Linus and anyone involved with him. Ben can't risk losing his daughter.

Remember Jin telling Sun that he would do anything to protect her and the baby? So, either he died during the "rescue" or he is still alive on the island. Either way, they had to tell the world he died in the crash and have a funeral and gravestone. And either way, Sun has no way to contact him now, or maybe ever.

Why is it every week we have to have someone go off about how this show apparently "sucks" and the writers are "ruining it"? 1. You people obviously don't appreciate a well-written and deep plot that doesn't spoon-feed you every little tidbit. 2. Why do you keep coming back then?

My thoughts are simple: The tombstone clearly said that Jin died on 9/22/2004. That was the crash date. So, whether Jin is dead or not, Jin's body is probably not under that headstone. According to the world, he died in the crash. That makes him NOT a member of the Oceanic 6. Sun, we now know is.

Jin made a point of saying that he'd do whatever it takes to get them/Sun off the island so their baby could live. So, it seems perfectly plausible to me that he might have died trying to ensure that. I'd hate to see him go. Or, he's on the island with the rest of them. Or, he working with Ben/Sayid to ensure the protection of the Oceanic 6 (of which Sun is a member). In all cases, the tombstone is a fake.

I agree Jan. Great minds think alike.Beat me to it!

Yes, you are right - it's not Ugly Betty, people. The tombstone is fake and maybe Sun's father is in agreement w/ Charles Widmore - he's pretty powerful as well.

Aaron is one of the Oceanic Six. Since he was a infant being saved from the island, the media would count him as part of the survivors. Perhaps Jin is alive and well on the island and Sun and going to the headstone because she feels more connected to him that way. People do unusual things in mourning.

Perhaps those 300 bodies could have been a mix of the real death on the Oceanic flight, some of the bodies of the Dharma Initiative folks in the hole (one Locke was shot into). I don't know, though it's quite interesting.

One last thing. I hate Michael and it looks as though he's further going to mess things up for Sayid and Desmond. Because Michael is selfish.

There are only 2 options for Jin's "death."
1. Jin is still alive on the island and Sun was having a moment because she thinks she'll never see him again.
2. He dies on the island.

My guess is that he dies on the island (probably in the next episode) protecting Sun and the baby. I think this episode made a good finally for Jin: He found out "the whole truth" and knows for sure that the baby is his. We also had a really sweet moment there at the end.

I think the next episode will be Michael-centric. My theory is that he's the last of the Oceanic 6 and he's the one in the coffin. I think that accounts for Jack and Kate's animosity toward whoever is in the coffin.
what do y'all think?

Couldn't Michael be one of the Oceanic 6?

Reply to philogos:

Michael couldn't be one of the Oceanic Six because the crew on the freighter would refer to him as Michael and offer remarks to Michael about finding Sayid and Desmond.

Aaron is one of the "Oceanic 6" -- it is not important that he was not quite born yet....There was 6 people that came of the Island...Aaron was one of them. Like another poster said, they are not the "Oceanic 6 and Island Boy" -- 6 people.

I think this show is easier on the heads of those who pay attention to detail.

Not that I disagree Dale, but who on the show isn't selfish?

Darth: I'm liking that. They're tying up Jin's loose ends. It might be his time. Shame, but we were due for a major character death.

Don't like Aaron bein a Sixer just yet. He technically wasn't on the manifest, and I'm sure the powers that be will have great interest in Aaron, so his true identity might be kept secret. Besides if his mother supposedly died in the crash, how did he get born? or survive? Nah, I'm noy ready to fill my bingo card quite yet.

Scott:

How are the people in the outside world to know that baby (Aaron) belonged to Claire? Kate could have told them anything. Though you make a good point because Claire was far along in her pregnancy aboard the plane so the timeline wouldn't fit into well if "Kate being pregnant with Aaron"

I did not like how they had a flashback and flashforward. My least favorite episodes are usually those that have flashbacks which are sort of pointless. There are only a handful of those pointless flashbacks (in my opinion) because I do appreciate character development. However, once the character is developed to a degree and no crucial info is revealed then I think the flashback is sort of pointless.

Anyway, my rant has a point. The Jin flashback. Obviously, a tool by the writers to fool us. The flashback had no true point or purpose for episode or show. It was 'X' amount of minutes to create misdirection. Don't get me wrong. I love the surprise surprise element of the show. I love the suspense. I love it when an episode ends and I'm left with my jaw on the floor and thinking "WTF just happened?"

My gripe with this episode is that part of the episode had a pointless flashback with no true purpose other than to misdirect. I realize many of you will take issue with this complaint.

I'll put it another way: I did not like the approach the writers took in this episode to misdirect the audience.

I guess that's that. I love the show's mystery, suspense, twists and turns; however, I do not agree with the method used in this episode.

Other than that, I enjoyed the episode. I was shocked that Juliet told Jin that Sun cheated on him. I was glad to finally meet the captain. I doubt that was the last we see of Zoe's character, though I really don't know. I hope that was not the only scene for her. I was happy to see Michael.

I'm thinking in Airplane, when the woman goes bezerk and a line forms of people wanting to smack her around. I'm hoping everyone gets their turn to smack Michael around.

Finally, it was nice to finally meet the captain. I hope we get to hear the info in the black box.

Someone made a comment about some people not enjoying the show when the information is not spoon fed to them as opposed to enoying a deep layered plot, something or other.

I do get annoyed with ABC's promos because the episode never clearly stated these are the Oceanic Six. IF the producers or the promos never clearly stated by the end of episode 7 we will know, then we could still be debating about it; however, since the promos and the producers made it clear that by the end of Ji Yeon we will know, then apparently we were just spoon fed info.

I would have preferred to wait it out and let the actually episodes reveal, confirm or deny who were the oceanic six as opposed to promos and blogs revealing that kind of info. There was still a debate going on amongst fans, though as adults we can count that Jack, Hurley, Kate, Aaron, Sayid, and Sun are 6 people.

note: tried to post this earlier and kept getting an error, so if someone else has said this, tough. I said it first. lol

---

Lost: 3
Drunk Drivers: 0

Ana Lucia gets arrested for driving drunk: character killed off.
Libby gets arrested for driving drunk: character killed off.
Jin gets arrested for driving drunk: character killed off.

Think I'm seeing a pattern develop here. lol

I think that there is JUST enough room on the chopper or whatever to carry a certain number of people. And it comes down to Jin or Sun, and Jin sacrifices himself and stays behind so that Sun can get off the island and have her baby.

I think something will happen and whoever does not leave with the chopper or plane or whatever, will die. The island is about to self destruct or whatever, and Jin willingly sacrifices his life so that Sun and Yi Jeon will live.

Just my thoughts.

"Michael couldn't be one of the Oceanic Six because the crew on the freighter would refer to him as Michael and offer remarks to Michael about finding Sayid and Desmond."

Dale: I don't know why/how they would know Michael: I think the assumption is that the Oceanic 6 make it off quite a while in the future. Am I ignorant of a significant plot development or of a crazy time anomaly?

And I agree with Scott about Aaron not being an O6. Wouldn't they be aware of Kate not being pregnant as they were bringing her into custody. They know everything else about her. And plus, I'm betting that the writers are too esoteric to give away two sixers in one episode (i.e. the Kate-centric episode). They know how to keep us guessing, which is part of the beauty of the show.

As for Sun visiting the grave, if you just gave birth and you're husband supposedly died before the birth it seems like a reasonable thing to visit the grave. I'm guessing that they're being watched and they're (Sun and Hurley) are just trying to play along with the story.

Other question, why did Hurley say "good" when Sun said no one else came?

I don't want to start some life begins at conception ordeal here but I'll throw this out there: could Ji Yeon be one of the six?

"Speaking of the dead, the annoying ABC promos made sure to tell us that next week, SOMEONE WILL DIE! I hate it when they do that, as it completely robs us of any surprise, but whatever."

::sigh:: That's exactly why I avoid the promos. Please warn about spoilers well ahead of time.

Was that a mexican with a bandana on his head checking the rope on the Freighter when Cpt. Gault ordered everyone to get back to work?

The Jin flashback was a very cheap device and I'm disappointed they used it. So we now know that Sun will get off the island in three weeks and that the flash forward took place within ~6 months from the date on the island.

It seems everyone is convinced that Jin died on the island or that he decided to stay on the Island, and that Aaron or someone else is one of the Oceanic Six. The way I viewed the episode is that Jin is also one of the Oceanic Six, but he died after they got off the island. Thus tonight's episode revealed the last of the Oceanic Six as the promos promised.

Firefly: That might have been true if his headstone had not read September 22, 2004 as his date of death. That's what I thought at first until I found out what was on the tombstone.

Firefly......the tombstone read his death as being Sept 22, 2004. Therefore, he is not one of the Oceanic 6. The 6, including Sun, are lying to the public and telling them that Jin died on the day the plane crashed. Therefore, he's not only NOT one of the Oceanic 6, he's probably not even one of the 8 that survived the initial crash.

I'm almost convinced that the Oceanic 6 are Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun, Hurley, and Aaron. However, I believe that Desmond and Michael will leave with them, however not recognized as Oceanic 6 members. Desmond, because he wasn't a passenger. Michael, because he is now Kevin Johnson. And I think that Kevin Johnson is in the casket.

Next week's death? Since I haven't seen any spoilers, I can venture a guess. I'd say it has to be Claire.

For a minute, I thought LOST was going to jump the shark and have Hurley and Sun hooking up. I don't know why I thought that was possible.

Is it possible that the Oceanic 6 are supporting the story that it was Oceanic 815 that was found on the bottom of the ocean? Maybe making up a story that they somehow made it onto a nearby shore? I'm just typing as I'm thinking. There could be inconsistencies to that theory.

And, was Sun watching a Korean dubbed episode of Expose, starring Nikki Fernandez?!?

I thought they are supporting the story that the plane crashed over the ocean and that was what was found, because didn't Jack agree to that story when he was on the stand at Kate's trial?

Two things here I agree that next week may be a Michael centric episode, but will it flash forward or will it be a flashback of when him and Walt left the island. Secondly, Sun was still wearing here ring throughout the flash forward. Was this because she could not let go or is it that Jin is still alive?

Well common sense will tell you that the last oceanic six person is JIN think about it and get back to me

"Well common sense will tell you that the last oceanic six person is JIN think about it and get back to me"

His headstone said he died on the day of the flight. "Common sense" says that he's dead (or at least most of the world thinks he is...either way, he's not one of the O6)

So, if I'm not mistaken there are 3 dates on Jin's tombstone right? I'll assume the two on the right are birth and death dates, but what's the one on the left?
3-20-1980. Anyone know? Hopefully it's not something obvious that will make look like a dimwit.

So, the enhanced episode of "the other woman" revealed that Juliet reminds Ben of Annie, not Ben's mom. It was nice to have some confirmation.

Why is everyone wondering who the final of the six is?
Kate, Jack, Hurley, Said, Sun and Aaron = 6

I took the other date on the gravestone, 3-20-1980, as Sun's birth date. It's a double headstone with her birth date engraved as pre-need, very common for married couples to do when one predeceases the other. But I don't think Jin is really buried there. I think he's still alive but left with the other non-rescued survivors back on the island. I think Sun just goes to the gravesite because it's a place for her to still feel a connection to him even though she knows that he's not really there.

Ah! Thank you cheezesoup!

i completely agree with cheezesoup... it makes perfect sense

I have to throw my two cents in about the Jin flashback.

It was NOT pointless. The theme of the entire episode was KHARMA. Bernard explained exactly that to Jin: in simple terms, do good things and good things will happen to you, or do bad things and bad things will happen to you. Everything bad that happened to Jin as he raced around with that stuffed Panda was a result of his bad kharma (and his actions while working for Sun's father). And Sun and Jin fostered good kharma for their baby with their decision to stay with the "Jack" tribe.

I thought the episode was quite beautiful in its symmetry.

sigh....love Lost....

Good point, Brentie. I still think it was a cheap device :P

But that does put the flashback in better perspective.

I could not help but, relate this episode to the movie "The Sixth Sense". The correlation was Sun not wanting to take off her wedding band and the ring hitting the floor in the movie. That was the writers subtle hint that Jin was dead.

In the movie, when the ring hit the floor I said to myself “holy crap, Bruce Willis is dead”. At that point, everything started to make sense.

As usual, the Lost way is diversion. The lost writers put subtle hints in the script for us to pick up on. Sometimes we pick them up and other times we don’t. I did not pick up on that until Jin said that he had only been married 2 months. That’s when I knew it was a flashback and at that point, thought he didn’t make it off the island. Hurley confirmed it when he said, “you ready to go see him”.

In true Lost fashion, he is not dead until I see his pale rotting corpse or when "I see dead people".

It was a very good episode. It answered a lot of lingering questions from two years ago. However, I’m guessing many of the questions this episode raised won’t be answered until the next few seasons. It’s time for a Guinness. BRILLIANT! (clink)

Was Jin really the baby's father? Could Hurley possibly be the father? Why did he go to the cemetary with Sun? Just a thought.

They are all in purgatory ... Fartback/FartForward --- all dreams....let's go back to the basics, why the F is there a damn Polar Bear on the island ?

One thing I still miss, unless I am looking too deep into this (yeah - possible with this show /s)...

If the baby was conceived on the island, how is the story that Jin died in the plane crash feasible. Any OB/GYN would know how far along a mother is in the last trimester with a sonogram? Don’t you think it would be questioned?

I love LOST. The freakier it gets, the more I love it. Finally a TV show that makes me think. I tried to stop figuring this show out, but I love reading what everyone has to say. Thanks for all your theroies!

It seems people will be divided to ensure the Oceanic 6 keep on telling the lie. Jack leaves Juliette stays.
Kate leaves Sawyer stays.
Sun leaves Jin stays.
Aaron leaves Clair stays.

Ben is very good at using that which people love to use against them.

Also, I think it could be Bernard to die next week. After his "Thats Karma, we must be the good guys" comment - I just feel the writters will turn that statement against the poor dentist.

Yet another reference in this episode to the 815 wreckage being found with all the bodies still on-board. But then the public is quite aware of the Oceanic 6. Are we to think that these two stories are somehow rectified in the eyes of the flash-forward public? Or it this an inconsistency that needs to be dealt with?

I think Jin will die next week. The scene with Bernard served to purposes. First was to introduce the idea of karma but also to show that he can fish so when Jin dies, no one can say that there's no one to fish for everyone. Also the comment above about the actors getting busted for DUI is interesting.
This episode just felt like they were wrapping up the Jin character. He now knows about the affair, he admitted to all his past mistakes and forgave Sun. The character has come full circle just as Eko did right before he died.

Just a thought...

Has everyone forgotten that there where eight survivors of the crash six of which survived, making up the Oceanic Six. I believe that is truely Jin's body in the grave. He would do anything to protect Sun and the baby. I don't believe that Aaron is one of the six. There is one more, and I think we will be very surprised as to who it is. The only three people who would be held in contempt by Jack and Kate are Michael, Locke, and Ben. My latest best guess is that the body in the coffin is most likely Michael's. The piece in the paper was so small that it can't be a member of the six. I'm sure that would make headlines. Michael died under the name of Kevin Johnson.

My guess is he makes it to the boat and dies there for some reason. All that I have heard is he is one of the oceanic 6. Also Aaron wasn't on the original manifest hence he isn't one of the oceanic 6.

JJFAN, but the name in the death notice was not Kevin Johnson. Why would he have assumed another alias? I'm not convinced, but lean toward it being Ben...we know he left he island, we know he has the ability to assume many identities and we know people are out to get him.

Or it's someone we're not yet familiar with. This show is sneaky like that.

I thought there was something strange about the hospital scene where Sun was delivering the baby. It was going very badly for her, UNTIL this strange man looked in the delivery room at her. After that, the baby crowned, and all was well.

And was this the same man who bumped into Jin on the street and took his cab?

Didn't Sun say "It isn't mine" as the were struggling to take her ring off? Who's ring was it?

this episode jst every other episode of this show (exept for fire+water) was awsome and if anyone thinks that this show sucks now...then thay can go watch gay smallville. okay

Jin did survive the crash.
Hurley said: "He looks just like Jin" about Suns baby. Just like he's met Jin before.

ok, i watched LOST online this morning because i didn't properly program the VCR last
night! AHHHHHH

so, i got questions..thoughts by you would be greatly appreciated!

Is Jin dead? The date on his tombstone was the date of the crash.

at first i thought Jin's story was a flash forward. Even at the end, i figured he left Sun
and remarried..that is why he said he was only married for 2 months. Sun, while giving
birth, was screaming out Jin's name out of grief, that's why she wouldn't take off the
ring...i don't know.....

Why did Hurley say "good" when Sun said no one else was there?

Is Aaron part of the Oceanic 6? Sun, hurley, Kate,Jack and sayid are 5. If jin dies during
the crash..and Aaron wasn't on the manifest, who is number 6?

Did you happen to notice after Bernard and Jin were talking about "Kharma"..the
next scene was the freighter and the name on the ship was "Kharma"?

Could ben be part of the 6? he had all those passports....

Why did we finally meet Regina, only to see her throwing herself off the boat? Maybe there
is something under the freighter...like when Charlie had to go under water to that
station?

Maybe Sun's dad is in cahoots with penny's dad? Both are powerful men.

who is gonna die next week? Claire? Bernard? Jin?

I think the captain of the ship is telling the truth and Michael is there to throw Sayid
and Desmond off track. They would tend to believe Michael, seeing he was an 815 survivor.
But, Walt might still be on the island( Locke's been seeing him) and Micheal's gotta do
whatever for Ben to keep Walt safe. Hmmm.....

I thin Sayid might kill Michael....after he realizes Mike's been messing with their
heads....

Then Sayid takes over as Sith Lord..cause there's always a Master and an Apprentice..oh
wait...that a story a long time ago in a galaxy far far away....

Thoughts? Comments?

Help me..I'm LOST....

Jin is dead, but NOT a part of the Oceanic 6.

I think you’ve all forgotten that in the courtroom scene for Kate’s trial Jack says there were 8 who survived the plane crash, but only 6 survived to makeup the “Oceanic 6.”

So, my guess is that when we get to the point in the storyline where the Oceanic 6 are rescued, there will be 8 people, 6 of whom are still alive. We know Jin is one of the dead. The question should be, “Who is the other one that is deceased?”

There’s something very important that I think a lot of people are missing out on. We know the Oceanic 6 get rescued, but WHO rescues them?

Guess what? It can’t be by Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank.

In Hurley’s Flash Forward, we see Matthew Abaddon ask Hurley if anyone was still alive living on the island. Since this occurred AFTER the rescue, this leads me to believe that Mr. Abaddon has lost contact with his group.

If Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank rescued the Oceanic 6, why would Mr. Abaddon ask Hurley about the island? He would already know.

My theory is the Oceanic 6 would have to have been rescued by a third party. Ben strikes a deal with them and strategically places them so they can be found. This theory is further supported because we know Sayid ends up working for Ben.

It is entirely possible that Ben set them up on another island or put them on a boat on a course to be found.

Keep in mind that Ben was able to show Juliet live video of her sister, and that Richard and Ethan ran a highly secretive operation OFF the island NEAR Portland. We also know that Desmond shipwrecked onto the island. And following the episode where we saw Ben’s passports and aliases, we know Ben can get off the island and knows his way around the world.

So, what happened to Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank, and who rescued the Oceanic 6? My theory is they have been killed off or have been captured and are stranded on the island.

Frank from South Kakalaki

Did anyone notice at the beginning of the show when Locke and Ben pulled out the Red Sox tape how there was nothing else in the safe but the tape itself? Then after Locke & Ben watched the tape, Ben mysteriously pulled out a red file folder about Charles Widmore?
Wouldn't we have seen the folder initially when Locke opened the safe?

Kevin Johnson is an alias for Michael. For all intents and purposes Michael died on the plane crash. There is no way Ben would let Michael survive off the island without a new name, life and back story. I'm sure we'll see how all that happens at some point.

Something big must happen if only 6 make it back. Jack, Kate, Hurley, Syid, Sun and probably Aaron are the 6, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is someone else.

Jin would sacrifice himself for Sun and their baby. He either dies or makes some kind of sacrifice so Sun can get off. You have to remember the writers of this show are very smart. Nothing gets in without some kind of meaning. Hurley and Sun are going to the cemetery to "keep up appearances". They have to stick the story they made up for whatever reason. The date on the stone was the day of the crash. So that only means they are telling everyone he dies in the crash.

As far as an OBGYN being able to tell the date of conception. Any one you has ever had a child knows that is mostly and educated guess with in a couple days.

Did anyone catch the name of the boat? I swear is said "KARMA".

Solid episode in that it set up some more issues -

1) The fake black box
2) Another Charles Widmore reference (I like how Cpt. Gault nonchalantly told Desmond "Oh, thats right, you know him."
3) Where did Ben or whomever get 300 dead bodies (which I guess has been pondered before)

I have to say, I think the O-6 are definitely Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayeed, and Aaron. No way getting around Aaron as being a known survivor of the crash/island. Kate's lawyer talked about him, the public knows he exists because Kate mentions him on the wittness stand (I think, anyway.) Aaron is publicly known to have come off of the island, seemingly as Kate's kid.

I think Jin is dead...at least for now. This whole Desmond "time travel" ceratinly opens that up for a change down the road.

One last thing - I now, more than ever, think Ben is the most vital cog in this show. Everything is set in motion by him or is done so in an effort to find/overthrow him. For that reason alone, I think it is Ben in the coffin. Jack needed confirmation...although he never looked inside

Sun = flashforward
Jin = flashback

Producers already said they'd use a combo of forward/back. They also said the flash forwards would not be presented in chronological order.

Hence, we saw Jack visit Hurley in the looney bin - before Jack went crazy. We see Hurley visit Sun, probably before he went into the looney bin again.

Of course Sun will "pretend" to visit Jin - its about keeping up appearances. That's why Hurley said very non-chalantly "go see him" - you could hear in his voice he knew it was all a hoax, and that's why he was happy no one else was coming. Just go and get it done.

What will be interesting, is finding out exactly what is making the 6 keep this huge secret, why are they doing it?

Producers also said next season is about everyone's motivation for going back to the island. Jin being alive on the island is obviously Sun's motivation for going back.

And as for them splitting apart voluntarily, if it came to saving Sun and the baby's life, Jin would stay on the island to ensure their safety.

Jin's death is fake...he's alive on the island. They are pretending for the reason all of the 6 are keeping the "secret" of the survivors - and I can't wait to find out what that is!

The name of the freighter is "KAHANA" not Karma.

Am I the only one who thinks that Jin concealed a bomb in the panda? I have a feeling that Paik had a beef with the Ambassador, so he sent Jin to do him in. I think that this was a flashback to reinforce the idea of karma. Also, if I remember correctly, he took a ribbon off another bear and put it on his. My guess is that the ribbon had some kind of markings that indicated a particular person or group. Paik may have used Jin to kill the Ambassador and put the blame on another one of his enemies. Widmore, perhaps?

In addition to this, I think (like some other posters) that Jin is still on the island. The date of death on the tombstone pretty much confirms this for me. Sun is simply mourning at the grave for "appearances". However, she's crying because she wishes Jin was there instead of on the island.

One other theory I want to throw out there...
Could it be that Widmore is actually one of the Hanso's (I think I remember hearing about a Hanso besides Alvar. Magnus?) or at least sailed on the Black Rock before it wound up on the island? Maybe he got thrown off of the boat during the crash and experienced some kind of time warp while floating about in the water. He built his fortune from the treasure he recovered from stashes hidden away on other islands during his pirate days. This would explain why he has considerable resources, how he knows about the island, and why he wants to get control of it.

Heck, maybe Ben has been lying the whole time and he is also one of the original pirates. Ben popped up on his radar (somehow related to the picture the "rescuers" have), so Widmore's sure that Ben knows how to get to and from the island, safely. This could explain why he's so interested in finding Ben. Ben may have even led a mutiny against Hanso (which caused the crash in the first place), and Widmore/Hanso is just looking to settle an old score. This could be another explanation as to why rescue is not Widmore's primary concern.

What if in the world (or dimension) the Oceanic 6 comes back to the rest did die in the crash?

The blue ribbon was one of two- depending on the sex of the girl. I don't think there's a bomb in the panda. I figured it must be a flashback for Jin when I saw how old his cellphone was. If he's not really dead then I feel stupid for crying over last night's episode. And I read on one post that someone thinks that Sun & Jin get too many episodes, but if you figure they are TWO characters- not just one storyline, it makes it all balance. And I love her.

Survivor's of the Chancellor was being read up side down by Regina, apparently it is a tale about a British boat from 1875 that is stranded at sea? Apparently most of the crew dies throughout the book. Perhaps this parallel drew Regina over the edge. Going by this, the kitchen issue is that the freighter is actually out of food, which might necessitate an attack on the island just so the people on the freighter can eat.

Jin is still alive. Sun asks for the doctor to get Jin, in her delusional pregnant state. Asking the doc "Where is Jin" makes a lot more sense if he is on an island somewhere than dead because you'd know he was in the ground if he was dead. I think it is more believable that she would ask for her husband knowing he couldn't make it from the lost island than to ask for his return from the dead, unless he starts pulling a Charlie...nuts that just opens another possible can of worms. Plus she is still wearing her wedding ring.

Jin also will not die next week, they don't give us easy leads like that. They'll wait a few weeks before knocking him off if that is their intent. A more likely candidate would be Claire whose demise may have been set up many episodes ago when Kate had Aaron back in LA. I doubt they will off Claire, but my money is on her going before Jin at this stage of the game.
Nice of the writers to introduce kharma into play with the Bernard/Jin scene. Let's see if they play up the theme of Man of Science, Man of Faith and know Man of Kharma.

What was up with the captains reply to Desmond when Desmond said "This is Charles Widmore's boat?" Did the captain say "That's right you know him" as a statement or a rhetorical question because he turned around and was walking away before Desmond could even answer? If the people on the boat know who Desmond is, that adds a bit more mystery to the whole saga.

Lapidus should know that Ben was responsible for his friends death, the one who piloted the flight of the other 815, based on the fact the captain has the black box and was explaining to Sayid that Ben was responsible for the deaths of all on board it. I imagine he will be out for revenge and not a good guy.

Sayid: "The ship isn't moving."
Reply from ship's doctor: "If you say so."
So what are the moving through? Has to be some time/space thing.

Disco...thanks, you cleared some stuff up for me.

I have a lingering question, and if anyone else cares about it, please help me out...What happened to the rest of the others, and all the kids that they have from the tail section? We don't see or here about them and Locke's group is living in their houses. Most of the important Others are dead, but where are the rest of them?

It may not be important, I just keep thinking about it.

I think it was very interesting how the captain seemed to know who Desmond was. It makes me believe even more the Mr. Widmore wanted Desmond to crash on the island.

"Jin did survive the crash.
Hurley said: "He looks just like Jin" about Suns baby. Just like he's met Jin before."

Another one who clearly doesn't watch the show....

WE know he survived, of course Hurley has met him! The public doesn't know he survived though do they,
have you seen any of the bits about the crash being faked? Only 6 being taken off the island and called the Oceanic six...

Jin is still alive - when Sun is in labor and under true duress, she calls out for him. She let her guard down when under influence of pain relievers.

I was also surprised she would have a party in Korea and expect anyone to fly over for a baby party.

Aaron is not one of the Oceanic 6. It's the "Oceanic" 6 not the "Mysterious Island" 6. Aaron was not on the flight, Aaron does not get a big settlement from Oceanic. There are tons of ways Kate could have pretended to have given birth after the island. Even if not, they still wouldn't consider him part of the 6. LOST loves to give us suprises and I wouldn't be too shocked if the last member is the person who doesn't want to leave the island the most, Locke. His motivation to go back would obviously be to walk again. Don't take promos as 100% truthful.

Also I think it's still possible that Ji Yeon is not Jins baby. We've already seen that island time moves much faster than the outside world (ala Jack thinking a 20 minute helicopter ride to the boat took a day and a half). Juliet tells Sun that she's been pregnant for 8 weeks so she must have gotten pregnant on the island. But what if only 4 weeks have passed in the realworld compared to the 4 months or so perceived on the island. That would mean Sun got pregnant off the island. I know there are holes in this since the calendar reads December 2004 on the freighter, but maybe that time Juliet gave Sun this news last year was earlier than that.

I like the idea of Ben being in the coffin. Perhaps Jack knows that Ben is protecting his friends from the outside world. Seeing that Ben has died would defiantely worry Jack and make him even more desparate to get back to the island to save everyone.

HOW? HOW? HOW?
How can so many people not understand that Aaron IS one of the 6?

If the media covered a story about rescuing 7 people from a plane crash, why would they call them the 6? The media toplines EVERYTHING. Also, the previews said "Watch and see who the final member of the Oceanic 6 is". I really cannot fathom what all of the confusion is about. Who cares if Aaron was not on the roster? The show has identified 6 people who were rescued that were there because of a plane crash.

Can we please stop talking about this now?
There are MUCH bigger and more interesting questions here.

"Jin did survive the crash.
Hurley said: "He looks just like Jin" about Suns baby. Just like he's met Jin before.
Posted By Andreas | March 14, 2008 8:03 AM "

Dear Andreas,
Actually what Hurley was saying is that he looks just like 'Gin'- as in a bottle of liquor. Hurley and Jin have never met, excepting the time they bumped into each other on Planet Krypton in one of Hurley's flashbacks back in season 16- however, they were both blindfolded and did not exchange names. Good theory though, keep 'em comin'!

Why is it so hard to believe that Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6?? Seriously? Just because she was pregnant at the time? Even the producers confirmed that last night's ep would give us the last of the six.

wow

I have so many lingering questions!!

1. How do the freight people (and Charles Widmore) know about Ben Linus? Is there a mole on the island communicating to the outside world?

2. Why did the captain (and Charles Widmore) know there were "fake" bodies on a "staged" airplane--especially since Naomi seemed surprised to find survivors of 815 on the island? If they came out on a mission to find Ben, partly because someone funded "fake" wreckage, why wouldn't she know there would be survivors here?

3. Considering question 2, why on earth would a freight boat captain be carrying around "fake" flight 815's black box around with him on his ship?

4. How does the captain know Desmond knows Charles Widmore? Leading to the next question...

5. How did they know Desmond would be on this island? By "they" I mean Charles Widmore, the captain, and Naomi (she had the photo of Desmond and Penny, remember? She also said his name when they first took her down from the tree.)

Ouch. My brain hurts.

Hi,
Jin is either part of the losties that remained on the island, or he was killed in helping Sun escape. Either way, it is an amazing cover up that Oceanic Airlines and the Oceanic Six have agreed to perpetrate. In fact, it is so far fetched that the losties would agree to such a cover-up, it has made my mind is run in a different direction about the cover-up. When Desmond was going through "The Constant", and his consciousness was flitting between 1996 and 2004, he changed history by visiting Daniel, or he course corrected the universe. The scene from 1996 must have happened after he already met Mrs._____ when he was buying Penny the ring. (Bear with me.) Also, you remember that we saw him on the island after the hatch imploded, he was lying on the ground all naked and dirty from the explosion. When he "wakes up" he is in his flat, and he has just painted the walls red, and he thought he had just awakened from a nightmare. However, we know that his mind had flashed forward to the island, but had returned to the time he lived with Penny in the flat. During his conversation with Penny in 1996 in her apartment, he kept telling Penny that "it was crazy, but he would call her in 8 years..." Do you think that his 1996 experience with Daniel and Penny in 1996 will make a difference in what Desmond does for the next 8 years? I do. What he does may really affect the lives of the losties. It is possible that the faked 815 crash, may in fact be the real crash for the losties. I think that it all depends on Desmond's actions, 1996 - 2004 now that he has some knowledge of the future. He will glean more knowledge as his lives the next 8 years and may "course correct" more events. I don't know, but I believe that Desmond's actions may change the course of events that we've been witness to.

Rhonda

I know what's going on. For some reason, Sun is getting off the island. These are some reasons Jin wouldn't get off.

1. He dies in the next episode.
2. He gives up his life for Sun and the baby.
3. Him and Sun separate (unlikely).

Michael was the one that opened the door for them so Desmond could access the telephone-like thing on the boat that Sayid and Desmond and everyone is on. Michael isn't brainwashed, he is simply trying to help them. He had a debt to pay since he killed Ana Lucia and Libby, also kidnapping Jack and Sawyer and Kate and Hurley to get off the island. That's the reason why he's helping them. I think he has a feeling Sayid and Desmond are gonna kick his sorry butt (maybe not Desmond).

So the Oceanic Six will get off the island within the next three weeks MAYBE or at least within the next few months. They tell the public they are the only living survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 so that everyone still on the island can live in harmony without people searching for them endlessly (such as in Sawyer's case, since he doesn't want to get off the island). Rose and Bernard are happy on the island (maybe? We know Rose went with Jack).

Next week, someone will die. It's definitely either Claire or Michael. I think Claire because Kate had her baby. Maybe Jack caused Claire's death and that's why he doesn't want to see the baby.

Ugh. This is hard work.

It wasn't a "baby party" - it was a "memorial" on the anniversary of her husband's "death" - Hurley and her were both dressed in black and went to a grave site.

Also, the man that Sun saw in the hall while giving birth wasn't Jin..it was just another asian man she thought was Jin in her drugged up state...but they did a close up and showed it wasn't him...

I've jsut noticed something i had to share with the online community...when Regina jumps overboard...you can see that Michael is one of the people looking overboard afterwards.....if u pause the ep at 24.42 you can clearly see him....sneaky little writers!

I think this is one of the best episodes of the series. I can't believe that so many people here don't appreciate the superb writing on LOST. I love the way they made me so comfortable and confident the whole episode--feeling as if I know who the 6 are. Then, in true LOST fashion, they pulled the rug out from under me. That's what I love about it so much. It's that element of surprise that makes us come back for more. As for who is the 6th member of the Oceanic 6, I think they will once again take us by surprise and make it someone we'd never expect. Maybe Locke, Sawyer, or even Claire. Maybe she did make it off the island and is letting Kate pose as Aaron's mother as part of this elaborate hoax. It could even be some character as seemingly unimportant as Bernard or Rose. Who can tell??
I only started watching LOST on January 15 when my dearest friend ever sent me the boxed sets of Seasons 1-3. I was so hooked that I had caught up a few days before the January 31st premiere. It's been neat to have the advantage of seeing them all in such a short frame of time. We're lucky enough to have many more episodes to go and I can't wait to see where they're going with this story.
As Ben might say "See you guys at dinner!! "

I think John Lost is the best character on the show, why is everyone calling him a murderer? Also I totally thought Ben's man on the boat was going to be Michael, but it's this Kevin guy? Wow! And he looks so much like Michael too- my theory - get ready cuz it's a doozy, Ben cloned Michael. Ben also cloned himself which is why he needs like 6 passports, one for each clone. The Oceanic Six is really 6 bens running around, but they're all made up to look like survivors of the crash -- i.e. when Hurley and Sun went to visit Jin's grave, they were actually two Ben clones going to visit the Jin-Ben Clone's grave. And when Charlie visited Hurley in the mental instituation - well that really was Charlie but it wasn't Hurley. You guessed it, a Ben-clone. Even baby Aaron is really a Ben clone, you can tell because they both look like they have down syndrome.

Crazy huh! I just love how this show keeps you guessing!

OMG!! Polar Bear you cracked me up.

I just have a small observation. If the extra date on Jin's tombstone is Sun's date of birth (1980) that would make her 24 when they crashed on the island. Is there anybody else out there not buying that?? I mean she is beautiful and all but definitely NOT 24.

WAIT, I GOT IT. Jin didn't die, they wanted to stay on the island but knew they couldn't because Sun would die. So she returned to give birth to her baby, and Jin stayed behind awaiting her return. But obviously, him staying means he's dead. And she's crying because now she has realized that it is not going to be as easy to get back as she once thought.

How does that sound?

John Lost - you CANNOT be serious. Please tell me you doing a parody of some of these other ridiculous theories.

Did anyone else notice that the man selling the panda to Jen was his father? Also the nurse taking care of Sun was Jen's prostitute mother!

The crash is not fake. It is from the timeline that "split" when Desmond killed Kelvin and didn't key in the numbers.

Jack's dad is on the island/in the cabin because he time for him was warped just when before he died....He cannot talk with Jack because of the paradox problem.

The 6 will leave in a defiant fight (why else would Jack and Sayid go before the women of the losties?) perhaps using up the last powersource for the magical black box transporting room...

Ben is good -- he wanted to keep the "good" people because they died in the crash on one timeline. At least they could live on the island. If they get rescued or leave the island -- the paradox happens -- they run into their completed timeline.

Walt somehow crossed the timeline -- that is why only wisps of him exist -- on the island. Michael's only way of reuniting with him is to get back to the island...

Leaving the island without going through the time transporter results in the "sickness" or death for the person.

Locke "had" to kill his father because of the same reason -- once on the island, his dad's timeline had split. Killing him wasn't murder, because he still exists on another timeline off the island.

Ben cannot let Juliett leave for the same reason....coming to the island has split her timeline...

I agree with you Susan, but I might word it a little differently. Instead of the timeline being split, I believe that there are two timelines. There is the one where Desmond did not push the button, and the plane crashed into the ocean. The second timeline has Flight 815 crash on the island with the surviors--the timeline that we have been shown. For what reason they both came about, I am not certain. But, I believe that two different sequences of events led up to the fatal crash and, then, to the crash with the survivors. I imagine that they happend within a few hours or minutes of each other. I think the fatal crash was found in the Indian Ocean. Is this correct? The losties, I believe, are in the South Pacific.
I'm unsure if Jack's dad, Christian, is actually on the island--stuck in time. I have wondered if he was alive--didn't Jack find his father's coffin empty? But, he was obviously dead before he was put in the coffin. However, if he was in another timeline (another sequence of events) before his death, then.....well, that's a stretch. I know that we are led to belive that Christian was alive in the finale of Season 3, but Jack could have been talking crazy due to the drugs and alcohol.

One thing that continues to bother me is why was the second flight 815 found so far from where it was supposed to be? Not a 1,000 miles off the flight plan (like the pilot claimed they were before they crashed) but THOUSANDS of miles, on the complete other side of Australia. Now if it was a cover up, it wouldn't make sense that the plane would be "found" there but it also doesn't make sense if it was on another time line unless the plane was not bound for L.A.

it wasn't a flashback for jin. there would be absolutely no point to include that as a flashback except to WASTE TIME. did you ever think that perhaps the big "shock" of the episode was that something happens and jin decided to make himself appear dead to the world but he's actually still alive off the island? i don't think it's safe to assume it's a flashback for jin. it might be, but i doubt it.

The freighter folk would have never plucked a stranger named "Kevin Johnson" from the sea and put him to work as janitor on the boat.

When Ben sent Michael and Walt away at the end of season 2, he sent them on a coordinate that took them back to the past, instructing Michael to contact Widmore or one of his cronies and apply for a post on the Kahana. Ben is using Michael to "course correct."

Or else...Harold P. is playing Walt, all growns up.

Ok, as my conclusion, we only got 5 Oceanic Six.
Not counting Aaron
Kate
Jack
Hurley
Sun
Sayid

Jin did not leave the island, and when sun got there, she went to the grave made by the people who made the fake crash. Considering thats the date when he was "killed".
We stil need one oceanic Six. Any bets?

Jin's flashback was a flashback. Did you see the size of the cellphone he was carrying, you don't see anything that big in Korea these days. 12years ago maybe. We are talking about a culture that loves it cellphones and have 2 of the biggest players in that industry LG and Samsung.

Actually at first I didn't think it was a flashback either, I was fully expecting Jin to deliver the Panda go outside the hospital press a button, which blows up that wing of the hospital and then procure another cellphone in which he calls Ben to mark another name off the list.

One more thing

has Desmond actually met Micheal? So when he met Kevin Johnson he didn't look to shocked.

I'm not sure...

gonna have to look into that

I can't understand why do not consider Aaron like one of the Six. He was on the island, he's still alive and he's with Kate when they come back into the world. We can't consider a boy inside his mom, like this episode confirm, but Aaron it's a live person like the other 5. And then, ABC tell us that in this episode we finally know all of the Six.

The real question is: who fucking is Ben? why there r photos of him in an airport? How it's possible? Where he earn million of dollar? We can trust him when he tell to John that Widmore wants the island for create a big luna park of miracle? I think that, like Desmond, Ben has learned to control the time trip: we know that "no one can't change the future", but Desmond has changed the past and so manipulated his present. This is a real fucking power, and Ben seems to have a lot of power.
I think that all the question must be posted about Ben or who is back him (i can't forgive jacob, black pearl and his survival, and the power of the island).

Al