Was that Richard Alpert in the blindfold? What the heck does Widmore want with the island?

Did any of you guys notice what the mysterious note said that was given to desmond by some obscure dude? I beleive it said "Don't trust the captain"

And I think that Ben's man on the boat is Mihkaiel I cant spell it but the dude with the eyepatch in season 3 who kept "dieing"

I hope people don't write this episode off because it wasn't as great as last week's installment. It's pretty hard to follow "The Constant". As episodes go, "The Other Woman" wasn't half bad. It kept the story moving, and gave us a pretty fantastic insight into Mr. Widmore. Loved that scene. Also, I didn't think I could love the character of Ben more, but after this episode - wow. The dude seriously has problems.

And, how 'bout that strut and smile at the end? Very rarely do I find myself laughing out loud at the end of an episode of Lost.

I think Michael is Ben's man on the boat.

I also think that Michael is the insider on the freighter. He is scheduled to come back to the show so it makes sense.

I did indeed laugh at Ben's waddle back up the hill.

Glad to see Michael's back (Ben's guy on the boat, couldn't be more obvious, 100% positive, bet the ranch on it). The 'face you didn't expect to see' bit was one of those HUGE SIGNALS to the casual viewers about exciting upcoming developments.

Whispers also was nostalgic throwback to Season 1. I got the sense this time around that the whispers are intrinsically related to the 'original' Others, or perhaps to projections? I can't say for sure at all.

For all those complaining about the cliff hanger endings --- how about "see you guys at dinner"!!!! That was a great ending!

In one of the episodes it is explained that Juliet was set up with Jack because she looked like Sarah (Jack's ex-wife)...is it possible that Ben is the other guy that Sarah left Jack for?

Last episode we learned that Widmore, Penny's dad, purchased a coveted logbook/journal which traces back to ye ol' sailing ship that the 815ers found on the island. The ship apparently disappeared, but the logbook/journal survived. This ties the mystery of the island to the distant past. Is the "power" of the island then not man-made, but some sort of pre-existing condition? A naturally occurring phenomenon? Now Widmore's daughter, Penny, has been studying the island, we learn, and has been in search of the island for three years. Has she been reading the journal? Why does she not know about the ship off shore hired by her own father? In this episode, Ben, who no doubt is working another angle, shares some tasty morsels with Locke concerning Widmore. He leads us to believe Widmore desires to exploit the island and it's "power" and will stop at nothing to do so. Is this just another one of Ben's deceptions? Or, in some wierd way does Ben, in spite of his flaws, have the protection of the island's secrets at heart? Hmmm.

Does anybody get the picture that Jack does not gives
a rats behind about what's going on with the Island?
Or any of the weird things that keep happening.
I guess it is just foreshadowing on his future as
the lead "secret keeper".....And his ultimate turn
as the "one" who wants to go back.

I thought this was the best episode of the season.

I did not like the constant because it presents the very paradoxes that the writers are trying to avoid. If past des knows about the phone call in december 24, 2004, that changes a lot. But like Faraday not remembering Des, but reading about him in his journal.

OK.. I like the constant, but it was not my favorite episode this season, and surely not the best once since 'walkabout' that many are saying.

Overall a good episode, no where near as good as last week's, but after reading the comments I agree - need to do more character building.

First off, the man on the boat IMO is Walt - Michael is too easy of an answer and Ben knows Walt has special powers. Walt and Ben may know each other in the future and Walt is helping out. We also know that Locke believes in Walt's powers, hence the hint when Ben asked to ask Locke to sit before telling him.

Second, I think the whispers have to deal with people who are time un-stuck. When Juliet was in the jungle and heard the voices Harper appears. She then tells Juliet exactly what's about to happen in the future. To me introducing this character and then having a scene w/ her like this was a device to reinforce what we saw last week which is that people can travel back to a previous consciouness and seek someone out - say a constant - and talk to them to adjust the future. Clearly here Harper came from out of nowhere and advised Juliet on something so she could affect the future. Interesting...

Dod anyone notice the frame of photos on the wall in Ben's house as Locke was headed to the safe? The collection of photos looked like a family - and it sure looked like there were two little boys in several of the photos. Perhaps they are of Ben and a cloned brother?

I still think that Ben has an evil cloned twin that is trying to kill him...

Who was the man being beaten by Widmore?
The man being beaten by Widmore could probably be Mikhail. Might explain how he lost his eye due to Widmore's punishment.

Did Ben actually tell Locke who the man on the boat was?
Ben most likely did tell Locke who his man on the boat was. When Ben said to Locke "You might want to have a seat for this." Usually when people say this to another it's because it's going to be a BIG surprise. Surprise for Locke being it's his ex-fellow castaway Michael.

Does Juliet remind Ben of Annie or someone else?
I have a feeling that Juliet reminds Ben of someone else. Annie was a brunette, not a blonde.

Why do you think toxic gas was being stored in The Tempest station?
I think the toxic gas was being stored in the Tempest station as a pre-caution in case the island is overwhelmed by outsiders. Much like the "smoke monster" being a security device for the island, the gas is a last resort weapon.

*** Last note also is I think Harper wasn't really Harper but instead it was the island itself trying to protect itself from Farraday and Charlotte. The island thought it was going to "die" and felt threatened with Farraday's and Charlotte's presence at that particular station and formed itself into someone familiar that Juliet knew. Much like Yemi with Eko, Walt to Locke and Shannon and Boone to Locke. How else would you explain Harper standing right behind Juliet in a matter of seconds and in another matter of seconds she's gone just like that right after Jack turns around. Harper most likely is dead. The island only probably manifests itself into people that are dead just like Ben's mother, Yemi, Boone. Now, could this mean that Walt is dead? Might explain why Michael stayed on the freighter being there was no point for him to go home now.

Was that Richard Alpert in the blindfold? What the heck does Widmore want with the island?

Posted By Aaron

The person that was recording was most likely Richard Alpert, not the guy getting beat up. Remember that in one of the episodes of Season 3 when Juliet was watching her sister on tv with her sister's son at one point Ben directs Richard to pick up the newspaper to show what day it was and then we see a newspaper on the camera. So if anything, Richard Alpert was the man recording.

still not sure how michael (and not both michael/walt) is on the boat?

i'm no writer, but that would be dumb. michael is a double murderer, and cop killer. he had 100 hundred other ways out of that situation without having to shoot anybody...his character was developed poorly, so i hope they don't bring him back..

also, how would they explain walt away, someone michael (i'm sure we all remember) cried about every two seconds (my son!) in season 1.

prefer less of that, and mikhael, or even charlie ;-)

the only thing we know is: it is someone locke knows.

but everyone are so paranoid, i find it hard to believe the boat would trust anyone they just found driving a boat like michaels anywhere *near* that island, ESPECIALLY, if their name was on the oceanic manifest....

i bet it is mikhail....

great episode, great season, i'm so happy with lost!

is it just me, or has ben continued to get even creepier as the show goes on? he gives me the chills, his mind games are so effective! i just hope he doesn't get to sawyer and hurley, and get all those losties at the barracks on his side.

i found it odd that charlotte and faraday were actually trying to "help" the people on the island, and im not sure i believe it. vexing.

Does anyone have any idea the importance of the boston red sox tape being taped over ? Does Locke honestly believe that Ben has no more secrets ? How much longer will Locke allow Ben to mentally dominate him ?

I think Juliette might remind Ben more of his mother than Annie. Wasn't his mother a blond?

Roost,

Michael probably used a different name instead of his own in order to get on the Freighter. Remember that Ben said to Michael at the end of Season 2 that if anybody finds out about the Others the world will know what Michael Dawson did to get off the island. Michael probably thought of a different name such as....hmmmm....Kevin Johnson. About Mikhail being the man on the boat, can't be. He's blown up. I agree with you on the fact that he was always crying out for his son. I can just picture it now:
Jack - "Hey Michael, Jin and I are gonna go fishing. Want to come?"
Michael - "Oh really? I guess I'll...wait....MY SON!"
After 5 minutes...
Hurley - "Hey dude...have you seen Libby?"
Michael -" Libby? I'm not exactly sure...wait...wait...MY SON!"
Another 5 minutes...
The smoke monster - "bbbbbrrrrrpppppbblleeppppppp"
Michael -"Ohhhh man! MY SON!"

After the teasers for next weeks episode, I'm pretty much certain that Michael is Ben's informant. Not that I wasn't already sure.

This weeks episode seemed too "normal" of a Lost episode to follow the awesome that was The Constant. I did enjoy the revealing of exactly who hired the people on the boat, but now I'm wondering if he's alone in his desire to find the island. I mean are their others working with him to find it?

First off, it has to be michael. And second, ben asked locke, "did this rabbit have a number" There there's an orientation video on abc.com about the numbered rabbits. If it's still there.

Red Sox being taped over implies that the Widmore tape happened after the tape that was shown to Jack at the start of Season 3 (i.e. VERY recently), but that could be a red herring.

If Widmore is responsible for the freighter folk, that might go some way to explain why Naomi had a photo of Desmond and Penny - it could be Widmore's only photo of Desmond, and he wants him to be killed. Alternatively the photo was Faraday's.

It's possible however that Penny is searching for the island, unaware that her father is as well. Or maybe Charles found out that his daughter was looking for Desmond and at first sought to stop her, but then soon realised the potential of the island and now wants it for himself. Based on that, I suspect the guy being beaten up was one of the Portuguese folk from the very end of the Season 2 finale. He was working for Penny, and Charles now wants to hijack his daughter's mission.

Perhaps.

In the previews for next week, who was the woman, wrapped in a heavy chain, holding a bundle (Hope it's not a baby) we see jumping off what is presumably the freighter? What's that all about?

There was a pretty huge reveal here that I think we all missed. The writers put it out there for all of us to "hear" very clearly.

THE WHISPERS

Right before Harper appeared to Juliet, we heard the mysterious whispers. Then, right as they stopped...WHAMMO...there was Harper. Then, she suddenly disappeared and we again...heard WHISPERS...as she just vanished.

My Theory of the whispers:
The whispers are audible representations of thoughts emulating from the person that is seemingly teleporting to a location. In the past, hearing the whispers has always meant that the Others were around...but they always suddenly appeared. They came out of nowhere, like they wished to be somewhere and there they were. This makes perfect sense when you think about what Harper said about "Ben is exactly where he wants to be". Why? Because Ben can be wherever he wants to be...and talk to whoever he wants to talk to...just like he instructed harper to teleport to Juliet and warn her. The voices have to be brain noise or thoughts that become audible as the teleporting Others break through the time barrier or physical barrier of some kind...

Thoughts?

in this episode we are introduced to another of the abandoned darma stations, are we meant to believe that the controls were destroyed before or after charlotte and faraday arrive to "disable" the gas release ? did ben have this station destroyed ?(no significance??)

anyone who has been watching the show could see the sexual tension between jack and juliet building up with only a peck at the end of season 3 (when juliet goes back to the beach with sawyer), now all of the sudden they are a couple and jack is putting his foot down to challenge ben ? am i missing something ?

for being such a genious old Lockey boy can't even find a safe behind a painting in ben's cabin, was the jailhouse in the basement and secret passages not a clue that maybe there are things ben will continue the surprise us and the island folk with...

Did anyone out there see the movie, "The Others" with Nicole Kidman? Remember how the entire movie we thought she and her kids were "real" and that the house was haunted with ghosts? Only to find out in the end that THEY were the ghosts?

So,perhaps the idea about the whispers is not so far fetched?

this is part comment, part question.

@john: i think you may have something there.

we've assumed up till now that appearances of familiar people from the past (like yemi, ben's mom, walt, etc.) have been the monster impersonating these people. but--could they have been time travelers or unstuck in time or whatever??

also, have these appearances ever been visible to more than one person? tonight, "harper" was visible and real to both juliet and jack.

thoughts?

The person jumping off the boat appears to be "Kill Bill" stuntwoman Zoe Bell. She has been listed in the credits this season, but has yet to make an appearance.

I apologize for posting on a thread other than the theory that I want to comment on, but I want to respond to the end of the Libby Theory string and either I'm clueless or it's closed and that's why I can't do that (new to blog comments and such, sorry).

Responding to the whole thread/and Adam's comment at the end in particular:
I really need to say that when people try to condemn others for exercising their right to free speech, it really upsets me. And I stand in solidarity with each person who has freely offered their speculations about what is happening. Whether it's accurate or not, it's fun to consider and enjoyable to read.

ADAM...generally, I would agree with you that we should allow space for the storyteller to tell their story, which is why I am never disappointed by movies...I never TRY to figure them out as they are happening, I just like to let the elements reveal themselves to me so that I can be surprised.

However, dude (yeah, I'm a Hurley fan) please don't threaten to stab someone in the face...it's uncalled for. And please, if you find this is "ruining it for the rest of us", don't read this blog! Unless someone is forcing you to read this, I encourage you to buck up and find something else to do.

For the record, there's got to be something deep and amazing going on, regardless of whether EVERY SINGLE DETAIL is plausible. And I am curious why no one has mentioned the bird that saved Hurley...and seemed to be crying his name so soon after Libby died. (Oh, and yes, I watch the DVD's with subtitles so I was keenly aware, and perhaps would not have been if I was watching without them.) -- guessing that's where "Hurleybird" got his name from. ;)

By the way, do the posts with all the spelling mistakes bother the rest of you as much as they bother me?

Okay I don't know if this has been mentioned because it's 5:30 in the morning and I stopped reading the comments after five, I think. lol

When Harper said "you look like her" could she be referring to Ben's MOTHER?

There was a photo or a painting or something, and someone on another site said that possibly that was his mother in the picture, and someone commented that it looked like Juliet.

Could there be a "Norman Bates" type obsession with his mother, as he's grown up? Just from memory I don't remember her looking much like Juliet (not blonde, for the main point) but a nonsense theory regardless.

Also, to the people saying Ben is the other guy that Jack's ex left with, that's ridiculous.

1. They showed the guy in that episode that she left after bailing him out, and Jack said "is that him?" and she said "yes" (I think).

If this was Ben, do you not think that Jack would remember him when he was the guy who (in Jack's mind) STOLE HER AWAY FROM HIM???? I would think he would remember his face, whether it was night time or not. And before someone says "he only met him once", I believe he only met Desmond once, or maybe twice, and he remembered HIM on the Island.

2. If that was Ben, and considering that the episode SHOWED the guy by the car, wouldn't someone have posted up a screenshot by now and said "OMG, Benry was the guy who ...."

And if that WAS what ended up happening, that would DEFINITELY be a "Jump the Shark" type moment, as much as I HATE and LOATHE the JTS mentions.

I honestly did not think that Ben had a crush on Juliet. I thought the envelope in the mobisode just had his x-rays. Ben's feelings for Juliet came out of left field for me. My friends thought it wasn't a surprise. I honestly did not see that coming.

Very witty Ben.

Didn't read all the comments above but I am banking on the fact that Michael is Ben's man on the boat. The question I think will be insteresting is, will Michael recognize Desmond/Sayid? What if Michael didn't follow the correct path off the island and is "unstuck in time as well." We all know it can't be as simple as them knowing Ben's man on the boat....even though we assume that is who opened the door in "The Constant"

I think ben built that station to easily do the work of extermination if it needed to happen again. The question I have is, how did Widmore know about it so he could have the two freighties disable it? There must be a defector informing Widmore of the in's and out's of the island. Maybe Richard, who knows?

Yeah, I definitely laughed out loud at Ben at the end. Hurley and Sawyer are the best odd couple ever.

Hmmmm...I think the Jack/Juliet/Ben obtruse love triangle will eventaully reveal that it is indeed Ben in the coffin. Jack goes not as friend or family, but as a foe. His last hope of getting back to the island dies with Ben. Maybe not, but i do know this from my notebook, "If anything goed wrong, LOST is my constant!"

I think Juliet said to Jack at one point while he was caged "did it never occur to you I look a lot like your ex-wife?" That could help prove that everyone on the plane was 'supposed' to be on the plane. Wait...Maybe Jack's ex is Annie, just brainwashed like Alex's boyfriend.

Did anyone catch Juliette's ironic statement to Jack?

Juliette tells Jack that Harper was her therapist. Jack asked why she needed one. Juliette replies, "It's very stressful living on an island!"

I laughed out loud!

Why isn't anyone talking about the whispers that happened when the woman came to talk to juliet?

Timdawg. There are some very good comment on that at the top of the thread. I think teleportation is a very good explanation

Actually, she said "It's very stressful being an Other."

Good call Someone...and yes, please ban Ben.

Actually, it seems to me that Juliet looks a LOT like Ben's mom. That is a little Oedipal, but Ben is pretty creepy...

My friend works for Post Production LOST in LA. He's obviously seen all 8 episodes and confirmed to me that it's Michael on the boat. (Obviously because we see him at the end of episode 7 and it's his flash back episode for 8.) Charles knows about the Time Machine effect that Desmond has. Hence the reason he left the water running in the bathroom, because he knew it would send Desmond back to the "future." It's all about Time Travel and Ben mastered it, hence all the passports and money. ;-)

I'm thinking the person Harper referred to in Ben's past is Annie. The producers have said in audio commentary on the DVD's (i think in Man Behind the Curtain) that Annie's backstory is huge to Ben and to us understanding the mythology of the island (something about a volcano)In fact, they said that Ben's two most important women to defining his character and motivations are Annie and Alex. ...
Also, Samantha Mathis's character, who was Annie and Ben's teacher during the Dharma reign, is supposed to come back in flashbacks and help fill in the story. So, based on the fact that they will be returning to this plot, I think Harper was referring to Annie, and that they'll cast someone new who looks very similar to Juliet -- big blue eyes, long blonde wavy hair.
I also think that even without the mobisode, there were subtle hints that Ben was interested in Juliet -- especially in the scenes in A Tale of Two Cities and Juliet's interaction with him in the book club scenes and everything. For a minute, I even assumed they were a couple when I first saw them have their spat about Ben not being in the bookclub.

Who has time to check Lost Blogs and websites if they hate the show so much???? Don't get it, Ben. Sorry you think lost sucks. I think it's the best show on TV!

When Harper appeared it reminded me that I have totally forgotten about the others. Where are they and what are they up to?

Who does Juliet look like from Ben's past? We've already had one comparison of Juliet to another female character in Lost, delivered by Juliet herself. When she was holding Jack in the Hydra, she made the comment that she looks like Jack's ex-wife, Sarah.

So while I also thought of Annie immediately when they mentioned Juliet looking like "her," a while after watching the episode I wondered ... who was Sarah seeing after she left Jack? She was hesitant to tell him what his name was. We did see a man, but we never saw Sarah and that man kiss, and Sarah never confirmed for Jack that he was the person she was seeing. I never thought it mattered much. But whoever she was seeing, she's pregnant with his child in the flash forwards. And we know Ben has left the island many times.

Either way it's interesting. I never thought Ben was very interested in relationships. I guess it explains why he made Kate a nice breakfast.

I loved that they worked Harper into the original scenes of the barracks when the plane first crashed- did anyone go back to old episodes to see if she was there? Then again I loved the Nikki & Paulo episode for the same reason even if so many people complained about it. I love that Goodwin and Ethan keep popping up again.

I agree Ed. I think Ben put Juliet in place with Jack, knowing exactly what it feels like having someone remind you of the one that hurt you deeply. Ben and his mind games, what sinister character. Like he told Locke, he ALWAYS has a plan!

Harper was not in the first episode of the Season 3. Nowhere in the shot. Easily could of been placed in without knowing.

I think that Juliet reminds Ben of his Mother not Annie.

I don't think Jack and Juliet are together now. Jack's kiss was more of a comfort thing for Juliet. The hug was more of a "I'm here for you, as I am for anyone" kinda thing. Jack, whether you like him or not, was trying to be a nice guy.

Trust me. These two ain't together.

""I thought this was the best episode of the season.

I did not like the constant because it presents the very paradoxes that the writers are trying to avoid. If past des knows about the phone call in december 24, 2004, that changes a lot. But like Faraday not remembering Des, but reading about him in his journal.

OK.. I like the constant, but it was not my favorite episode this season, and surely not the best once since 'walkabout' that many are saying.
""
-Tom1

Thank GOD someone agrees with me! First time posting here but I visit a lot.. Couldn't believe the number of people praising the Constant. I actually thought it was by far the worst (least good ;) ) episode this year and one of my least favourites of all time. The time stuff is cool to an extent, but since none of it is actually explainable AND the entire episode was devoted to it I was quite disappointed. I know they need to show those episodes so I won't complain and will always watch, but I feel episodes like The Other Woman are of truest Lost form -- that is, character-driven and with cold, hard answers (and yes, there were answers).

I agree with you Tom1 -- The Other Woman was the best episode so far this season. All main characters (except the freighter guys) were seen in this episode which is unusual since lately they have been showing either the beach, freighter, or Otherville guys primarily in one episode. This eppy had a good mix.

I really like that they tied in the reveal of Ben's obsession with Juliet to his childhood friend Annie (we assume). While our previous perception that Ben wanted Juliet on the island to cure all the pregnant women may be true, it has been revealed that he doesn't want her to leave because she's "his"! I love when Lost takes something we've long interpretted in one way and then makes it work in another way as well by delving deeper into the lives of these people.

All in all, great episode!

Is is possible that the Ben's spy on the boat is Ben? Could it be Ben in the future? Keeping with the whole parallel universe thing; could there be one version of Ben in real time and another back in time on the Island?

She looks like Ben's mother!

Best quote of the episode...
"I taped over the game"

Hey mods, will somebody please delete the idiotic thread that says LOST SUCKS

I think Juliet reminds Ben either of his mother or Annie. Annie did have sandy blond hair, she was not a brunette like Kate. Although considering Ben's twisted and dysfunctional mind, it's probably his mother.

"My friend works for Post Production LOST in LA. He's obviously seen all 8 episodes and confirmed to me that it's Michael on the boat. (Obviously because we see him at the end of episode 7 and it's his flash back episode for 8.) Charles knows about the Time Machine effect that Desmond has. Hence the reason he left the water running in the bathroom, because he knew it would send Desmond back to the "future." It's all about Time Travel and Ben mastered it, hence all the passports and money. ;-)"

And my uncle is a stuntman.

Why does leaving the water on send Desmond to the future? That makes no sense, it's the only instance where water was involved. And how would Widmore know about the "time travel" in 1996, a day after Faraday had actually calibrated his machine.

I may be wrong, but the issue here isn't as much about physical time travel as it is about the ability to move one's consciousness to another part of the timeline of a person's life, i.e. Desmond's forward flashes and his past consciousness coming to his future self. The knowledge gained by this ability allows a person to affect the future, such as Desmond's call affected his timeline.

I think the others can use the power of the island to move their consciousness place to place, "appearing" to others even though they may not actually be there physically.

I think Widmore needs to find the island becuase it is key to his personal timeline. At some point in the not-to-distant future, he will find the island and harness its power to allow himself to give his past-self information about the future. This information allows Widmore to build his fortune. However, there is a catch...past Widmore knows that at some point he MUST somehow find the island or the whole thing falls apart. When the future Widmore arrives on the island he sees the Black Rock, Desmond, and other clues that the past Widmore can use to later find it. This is why the Black Rock's journal is so important, as it contains clues as to where the ship was heading when it ended up on the island. This is also why Widmore pushed Desmond away from Penny.

I think Ben also knows how to use the island's power to move his consciouness through time, knows what Widmore is trying to do and is working through multiple timelines to try to stop him. Ben knows exactly how the situation is supposed to play out on the island and is trying to influence things to change the outcome. I also suspect that Ben knows something about the future regarding the consequences to the world in allowing Widmore to succeed.

I think Bens guy on the boat is Sayid. Not that he has been working with him the whole time. Because he was working with Ben off the island in the flash forward. It could be that he dosn't even really know that he is Bens guy on the boat yet.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Sawyer get some decent air time soon!!!!!!!!

The person that left the last message is stupid! Really? Do you have nothing else to do?? Wow, if you don't like the show then don't watch it and don't go on websites dedicated to it!!!!!!

I ment the last message before mine thats stupid!

Seriously who ever keeps posting over and over that lost sucks is really dumb, GET A LIFE!! What are you like 15 years old?

Favorite line: "Um, did this rabbit have a number on it?"

I loved that line, too, Jeremy.... cracked me up!!!!

My afterthoughts:

I think there is definitely more than meets the eye to the Widmore connection that we learn from what Ben has shared with Locke.
One thing that we know about Lost is that character's motivations in this show stem from more than greed. Most often, they stem from matters of love, loss, self-hatred, abandonment human kindness, human potential for evil, basic good and evil, and all the gray areas that emerge from these basic psychological and social categories and make it so difficult to be human. (Think about Locke, Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Jin, Sun, Desmond -- all of their most basic stories have to do with how to define the self through love and loss. And most significantly, we've recently learned that Ben's motivations stem largely from his struggle with loss and love -- losing his mother and Annie, then Alex, and now potentially Juliet.)
So, I'm betting that the Widmore connection will follow suit: there is something extremely personal for Widmore that is wrapped up in this island.
What do we know about Widmore already? We know that he is fiercely protective (or controlling) when it comes to his daughter. This reminds me of the father-daughter relationships already being explored in the show: first, it reminds me of Paik's relationship to Sun. I've recently re-watched The Glass Ballerina where 10 year old Sun tells her first lie to her father. What a powerful opening scene -- such a defining moment for Sun's character! So, it makes me think of Widmore's relationship to Penny. What is the backstory between those two? Can someone recap when we've seen them interact with each other, if ever? I can't think of a scene. Second, Kate's relationship to her "fathers" is very complicated: she has self-hate because her father was Wayne, and this self-hatred makes her run from everything. And her relationship with Sam Austen is complex because he represents a "goodness" that she wishes was part of her but isn't. Third, we have Christian Shepard and Claire, whose brief interaction possibly caused a lot of changes in Claire's perception of herself and the world -- what were those changes? Perhaps to be explored more... Then, of course, there's Ben and Alex.... crazy!
Anyway, all of these examples make me wonder what Widmore and Penny's deal is. Why is he so involved in her life? Where is is wife, or Penny's mother? Did Widmore lose her? Is he broken hearted? Did he lose her because of selfishness, greed, and now is driven by guilt or fear? Has his heart turned to stone because of it? Why is he set against Penny finding true love -- because his own was thwarted?
I'm guessing that Widmore's obsession with the island has to do with a personal obsession that has to do with great and deep loss, possibly related to love. Only that kind of motivation would be consistent with the spirit of the show.
Thoughts? Theories? Holes?

Maybe Sayid and Desmond are gonna take over the freighter or a smaller boat/hellicopter on the freighter and come rescue the Oceanic 6??? I don't know just popped into my head!!

I believe the whispers are associated with the time travel. Notice the therapist appearing and disappearing within the whispers. Certainly this woman has not been on the island this whole time. How did she get there? IS she traveling in time as well?
Widmore wants the island because he has already invested millions of dollars. When Ben killed everyone the communication stopped between the original others and widmore's corporate office. That is why he is searching for the island. Now that the fire station has been blown up and the submarine also, he has no way to contact the people that he has paid to do all this research. I also believe that the government is involved as well, perhaps to use time travel, electromagnetism, and biological warfare as a weapon against other countries. Widmore is the governments coverup so that it does not appear that the gov is paying for it. That would also mean that someone knew about the plane crash. But if my theory is correct, there is no way widmore could know about the plane without inside information. and thats where i'm stumped.

It is my opinion that Juliette's theraphist wasn't really her, but the black smoke instead, one of the many forms. I was honestly expecting at any point to see in the flashback the moment were she died to prove that the one we saw in the present was actually one of the many illusions of the island.
I was quite amazed by the way that we discovered that LOST has now become a was between BEN and WIDMORE where the losties are in the middle. They probably made widmore aware of the island when the swap imploded, at least this is what I believe.

Ok first off, I'm not the Ben that childishly posted "LOST SUCKS" a 1/4 billion times - in fact, I almost used different name just so no corralation could be drawn, but w/e.

This is a long shot and I'm certainly in the "It's Michael on the boat" corner now (after all, remember that both Michael and the chopper were given specific bearings to follow - I'm at work so I haven't checked, but it's certainly possible that they were the same/similar bearings), however, I also won't be shocked one bit if it's someone else on the freighter - a la Anthony Cooper. I know, I know: Sawyer killed him - but it wouldn't surprise me if we had some sort of revelation re: the magic box, time travel, cloning/numbered bunnies, etc. Again, I think it's probably Michael on the freighter, but I think that there's a chance it's someone else that we've already gotten to know. Heck, maybe it's Boone LOL

I agree that Harper was a visualization--such as Echo's brother and Christian Shepherd. I doubt that we will see her again.

This episode was entirely set on the island, which I thought was a refreshing return to the basics of the story. It was human and rich. Juilette is a complex character--strong mentally, emotionally vulnerable. She is more developed than Kate and deserves the air play.

The Constant took us away to weirdo sci fi fantasies that I'm disappointed in. So I am also disappointed in the fans who think it was so terrific. The Economist was clearly the best episode so far. It had more twists and turns and also a psychological depth. That for me is what the show is about. Not mystical weirdness or even mysteries. Those are like hooks to keep us wondering, but the real strength of the show is to have complex psychology with so many intertwined characters with such different backgrounds and stories. I hope the writers continue to remind themselves that that is why we truly watch.

The episodes now have lead me to have some hunches about some overall structures of plot and character. First the Widmore connection was not a surprise to me. Who else has that kind of power and money coupled with a mean streak? And why else would Penny be primed for Charlie or calling the freighter or Naomi having a copy of the photo? Or Widmore intertwined with the Black Rock journal and the Hanso group? Plus psychologically it makes sense that the disapproved of love would be striving against yet another father figure. It is almost Shakespearean.

So is Juliette's backstory with romantic ties. The utter cruelty of Ben showing her her lover's corpse was a great deepening of his character's psychology and their relationship and tensions. It shows a new light on the conflicts that were happening during Jack's confinement with the Others during the attempt to get him to perform the surgery and then Juliette's final words with Ben to be set free as the price of his life.

I have a feeling that although we are getting the core ruthlessness of Ben, we will end up siding with him because he is protecting the island from exploitation and will turn out to be right in his assessment. He is no fool and knows way more than anyone. That alliance with him will feel forced in a powerful way now that we know how mean he can be (if we haven't already seen that streak in him). It is good plotting to set that up in advance so that when we get there, it will really have an effect. It reminds me of the long slow build up of Locke's father so that when he is killed we actually are forced to give up our reservations about murder and feel in line with Sawyer.

A couple of follow up thoughts:

1) Ben is pure Machiavelli - some people respect those who frame a problem with the ends justify the means as being practical, some disdain it for crossing moral boundaries. Such is Ben. He clearly will use any means and justify them internally to achieve his purpose - which is definitely in his best interests, but he may also think they are in the Losties best interest as well. How you view Ben, I feel, is how you view a Machiavellian approach

2) It seems that equally dedicated fans place the Constant (and episodes like it) in the pantheon and there are others that place episodes like this at the top. Those that like mythology and 'technical' answers like the former and those that prefer good old fashioned character drama like the latter. The best thing in my mind is that Lost combines both.

For me I preferred the Constant - and here's why. While this show is definitely character driven and has done a wonderful job of creating these characters, the context in which they operate is fantastical. Polar bears in tropical jungles, black smoke monsters, teleporting cabins (and now people), jungle whispers, Dharma's plans, etc have created a world that is screaming for explanation. I personally care equally about the context as I do about the people. Therefore I felt that the Constant finally started peeling back the veil on what comprises the makeup of this island and its connection to the greater world. Yes it was a bit confusing and brain melting, but I felt like 'Yes!' we're finally getting into the good stuff about why this place is the way it is.

Add to that Desmond is one of my favs and that closing scene w/ him and Penny just gets to me emotionally - watched it again and I was a sucker for it.

Okay, so with all this time tripping stuff going on, has anyone considered that the man on the boat is Locke himself from the future? It's a thought and a good reason for Ben to ask Locke to sit down. Maybe this means that Locke is the 6th one to get off the island... dun dun dun!

I love Ben. He's awesome. I know...evil, cruel, lying snake, etc...but I love him anyway. Michael Emerson blows me away.

About Harper: It seems that she has some form of contact with Ben based on what she tells Juliet in the woods. Does Ben have a mole in Locke's group that can get messages to some of Ben's people? What are your thoughts? Also, Ben seemed to lead us to believe that his people don't care about him otherwise they would have already rescued him. If that is the case, then what connection do Ben and Harper have?

In regards to Ben having a twin, a theory I've seen on these pages several times, I would have to say that is not possible. On the episode where we see the birth of Ben, there is absolutely no indication that been had a twin. I could be wrong, but I don't really recall any cloning talk on the show about Ben or anyone else for that matter.

And finally, I think Kate total hottie and is the most well know (especially for their looks) actress, but my heart lies with Claire. I think she is insanely beautiful and I love her accent. How do you guys feel?

The easter egg article listed Faraday's map as coming from Pop Whitmore's previously accquired journal. This seems likely at first thought, however, if that is so - Why would the journal for the black rock (1800's) have a darma (circa 1960's) symbol on it?

Maybe Geronimo Jackson is Ben's man on the boat...

I'm new to this (I've read,but never posted )so bear with me.
Remember when Michael shot Ana Lucia? It always seemed very deliberate to me, more than she just happened to be the one guarding Ben at the time Michael showed up Where Libby seemed incidental). I always wondered why introduce such an interest character just to kill her off? After last nights revelations, Ibelieve it was vengeful instuction from Juliette, and I believe we are going to see a darker side of this character reveal itself in the future. Just a thought. Definitely Michael on the boat.

I was a bit surprised at the kiss. Jack kinda gave into Juliette's sorrow and feelings, but I think it is a bit weird upon reflection that Juliette would have such feelings for Jack given she just lost her lover. It was way back in our time line but not in theirs.

Also I think we will see Michael but I wonder if they will throw us off a bit since everyone is expecting him?

I am disappointed that Sun and Jin will be in the final 6. Their story is not as compelling to me as some others. I hope the previews are just touching the surface of a more interesting plot development.

Ben's man on the boat is none other than time-travelling Ben himself. No way Ben would have trusted Michael enough, nor would the freighties trust some moist dude they just fished off a dinghy. This way Ben doesn't even technially need to "be" there so no one has to trust him, there's very little in the way of infiltration, just some surveillance. Perhaps Ben's mastery of time travel includes invisibility and bilocation - his consciousness is always monitoring the boat, but not manifesting.

That's why he doesn't heal like everyone else - his mind is currently too "busy".

Darel

tem·pest
–noun 1. a violent windstorm, esp. one with rain, hail, or snow.
2. a violent commotion, disturbance, or tumult.
–verb (used with object)
3. to affect by or as by a tempest; disturb violently.

Ok. Here's my take on it.

This is how the episode should have ended.

Ben: "Do you want to know who is on the boat?"
Locke: "Yes."
Ben: "...... I am... "

L O S T

Ben has the ability to travel through time and/or he has a clone.

Reasons being, That video they showed at Comiccon with the rabbit jumping through time and reappearing by itself in the present.

Ben was asking if the rabbit had a number on it tonight, because he knows about The Orchid and he has harnessed the time travelling abilities with it.

Remember how Farraday protected himself with the lead shield because he didnt want to get a tumor when he set the rat into the future? Remember what Ben had? A tumor. Which could be an indication that Ben has travelled through time.

I'm betting that it is Future/Past Ben on the ship. And thats why Miles is all OMG WE NEED TO FIND BEN. Because come on, having 2 of the same person walking around can't be good for business.

ben blows -a lot(you know what I mean)....not Linus

Anyone notice the awesome "lucky" comment by Hurley? Maybe he's finally making his own luck?

I have to give props to previous poster, "island". Very well written and some super insights!

"I have to give props to previous poster, "island". Very well written and some super insights!"

same can be said for ben with his "lost sucks", very well written and super insight.

I think "ben" is merely role playing the part of Ben Linus. Ben would hate the show Lost, too, wouldn't he?

As for questions, wouldn't Sawyer's first reflex have been to kill Ben when he saw him waddling out of confinement?

How did the physicist and the anthropologist even know to bug out to the Tempest? And how did they figure their timing? I mean, they sure took a lot of time farting around with the folks on the beach and at the helicopter before finally deciding to leave, and then they staved off the gas attack with just over a second to spare. Why are so many of the freighter folk seemingly working against orders?

Another line of question is whether Ben and Widmore aren't really competitors sharing the same motivation, but with totally different ways of getting and using what they are striving for. I like "island's" ideas about character arcs. There is no need to assume their motivation is money. We can all agree Ben is likely manipulating Locke and by lying about his competitor he doesn't need to say a word about or in any way twist his own motivations.

Lastly -- a comment. As much as I loved The Constant, I really wonder if the writers will be able to satisfactorily address the paradoxes they unleashed by having future Des change his past to change his future.

Why has Jack been reduced to a whiny, childlike, 3rd rate character? I am watching this episode again and he either forgot how to act or had his balls removed. Is this Jack from another time cause he looks kind of retarded in this episode with his strange faces in the rain.

This episode was disappointing in that the new questions raised weren't anything we care about. Last week we got much better answers AND much better new questions (Black Rock journal), the questions introduced last night really have little significance to the future of the show. The Constant was done right, it may have had predictable moments, but they raised unpredictable issues. This episode they did not and it seemed bland. I highly doubt the Tempest is anything other than a plot device for this episode.

Just to say I'm loving lost this season,

Here's my take on a few things.

Firstly without doubt its micheal on the boat, for ben to say to Locke u might need to sit down tells us that its its going to be something big and the fact we know michael will be returning kinda makes it obvious.

How does Ben know everything, i think he knows and has known everything about what everyone is up to through Rousseau. Wouldn't it just be like ben to be in control when u least expect it. like for instance if the peiple on boat are after ben there's not many places safer than being with Locke as locke wouldnt use him as bargaining chip.

Also regarding the oceanic 6, surely Desmond will have to be part of this group as if jack,kate,hurley,sayid all turn up claiming to be the survivers surely Penny would say wait no I know about thi island and I spoke to Desmond so there must be more survivors.

Also regarding Ben's people - are there still more others and where are they?

You don't think Ben telling Locke he has an ephemeral doppelganger on the boat would be a big thing? Much bigger, than, say, some dude Locke already KNOWS headed off in that direction?

The woman Juliete resembles is Ben's Mother.

Here is a link to her picture

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:3x20_emily_is_creepy.jpg

She really does... same hair, same coloring.... hmm. Thanks for the link. Is he trying to replace his mother? Is it as simple as Ben being obsessed with Juliet because she looks like his mother? What is the larger story behind Ben finding and becoming obsessed with someone who looks like his mother?

Do you think that between the time we saw Ben as a child and the purge, he had some contact with his mother? Richard seemed quite interested when child-Ben said he saw his mother on the island -- and then after Ben has grown up we know that Richard has initiated Ben onto his side. What happened in between those two times that would have fostered Ben's obsession for his mother? Did he find her and somehow lose her again? Once and for all, are we ever going to find out why certain "ghosts" appear on the island?

Whoever is Ben's man on the freighter is going to shock John and us, too. I don't think that he's going to be a person that we would readily think of, but when we find out, it will make perfect sense.

The writers of Lost like throwing the fans for a loop don't they. That Michael would be Ben's man on the boat seems almost too predictable to me. What if Ben's "man" on the boat is really Libby? Or possibly another main character that has died. It's supposed to be someone we thought we'd never see again, this big shock. Would Michael really be that big of a shock? Even to the people on the island?

Also, people are making a big deal about the fact they told Michael to leave the boat by the same bearing they told Lapidus. Unlesss they were leaving from the same spot that would put them in completely different places, traveling parallel.

Furthermore, and I'm brain farting here, but didn't Michael leave from the north side of the island and the helicopter from somewhere inland, nearer to the beach on nearly the opposite side of the island?

"tem·pest
–noun 1. a violent windstorm, esp. one with rain, hail, or snow.
2. a violent commotion, disturbance, or tumult.
–verb (used with object)
3. to affect by or as by a tempest; disturb violently. "

You need to look into Shakespeare a little more than a dictionary definition.

The Tempest's plots involve ships, storms, shipwrecks on islands, spirits and deformed beasts - there is a fair amount of correlation between Lost and The Tempest

did anyone else see the boots in the trees that jack and i think kate walked under?

Why did Locke have a dollar in his pocket? What use did he have to put on his pants that morning and put money in the pockets?

Did anyone else besides me recognize the parallels in "The Other Woman" to the biblical story of David and Bathsheba? King David sent Bathsheba's husband to the front lines of a battle so that he would be killed. Then Bathsheba would be all his.

Someone help me.....the communications guy who died on the freighter.... Was he the same guy who gave Hurley the numbers in the asylum?

I didn't read all the posts so forgive me if I am repetitive. I read the first half of the thread and then wanted to add on to it.

First of all, I absolutely believe that Michael is Ben's man on the boat. While it is difficult to explain how he's been accepted by them, or how he became in total cahoots with Benjamin is almost irrelevant. It can be nobody else. Mikhail would have no reason to open the door for Sayid and Desmond in "The Constant". My assumption is that he's faked his name with some Benjamin-issued fake ID. He's probably assuming the name that we sort of caught in the obituary that sends Jack over the edge. Nobody would be at Michael's funeral, because nobody would know he exists. Michael Dawson was a casualty of the crash of Oceanic 815. But his new ID has slipped back into the system with nobody to know that he survived. He's not a member of the Oceanic 815, but he's going to make it off the island, and he IS the guy on the boat.

I can't seem to wrap my head around the time-traveling. However, I've become convinced that Richard Alpert is a time traveler and possibly a passenger of the Black Rock. I think our expectations are so high for what the true mystery of the island is, that we're neglecting the fact that this show COULD be based around time-traveling more heavily than we're giving it credit. It's possible that Jacob is also involved in time-traveling somehow. I'd dare say it's probable that Harper has mastered it as well.

I think Harper telling Juliet that Benjamin is "exactly where he wants to be" is very telling. It could mean that Ben is perfectly content with grooming Locke to be the "special" leader that he's meant to be. Let's not forget that nobody has done a better job at protecting the island than Locke has. Whether Ben has manipulated these events or Locke has done them for other reasons, he has been the island's greatest source of defense. It could also mean, since she may be able to time travel, that she knows that Ben's survival is because of where he is. This could all be a bit of a stretch.

Josefk81 commented that Juliet reminds Ben of his mother. I tend to agree. I think that Juliet looks strikingly similar to his mother.

Oh, and whatever the heck Farraday and Charlotte were messing with at the end of the show, that's obviously what Ben used to wipe out the Dharma Initiative. Clearly, he's a sick dude and wanted to personally murder his father.

I love LOST.

Penny DOES know the boat is there unless I'm mistaken. The radio guy that died in last week's episode was told never to pick up the phone to Penny, before the communications system was hijacked. If she is contacting the boat, she knows it's there, they just arent allowed to communicate with her.

Was watching the last episode and I remembered something the writers seemed to have forget. When Locke and his band of people set out for the barricks they forgot one important key. THE BARRICKS ARE ON ANOTHER ISLAND!!! How did the whole group get across? Is there some ferry or tunnel system I missed? THERE'S TWO ISLANDS!!! They've missed that point several times now. It's quite stupid actually.

And I believe the inside guy on this ship isnt Michael it's Walt..

Sue, I thought the same thing about Minkowski. Anyone confirm?

Jefferson,
The Hydra zoo is on the other island. The barracks are on the main island.

darel and sue:
I'm going by Lostpedia. They're different actors. Lenny in the mental hospital is played by Ron Bottitta, and Minkowski is played by Fisher Stevens.

Here's the link to Lenny and Minkowski's lostpedia pages.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Leonard_Simms

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Minkowski

Got it, that clears it up. Thanks.

the barracks are on the main island, the "zoo" complex is on the other island if I am remembering correctly

Juliet reminded ben of his mother they look a LOT alike

My first thought for sure was that Juliet reminds Ben of his mother.

Could it be possible that Ben's man on the boat is somehow Sayid? We know that in the future flashes, Sayid is working for Ben....

I think Bens guy on the boat is Sayid. Not that he has been working with him the whole time. Because he was working with Ben off the island in the flash forward. It could be that he dosn't even really know that he is Bens guy on the boat yet. -Natasha

My boyfriend agrees with you, Natasha. He thinks that Ben is a prescient, all-knowing of future events. Therefore, he knows Sayid is on his side. I agree with that notion too, but it could be that Ben is Ben's guy on the boat. Ben not only foreshadowed the Orchid capability with a comment about the numbered rabbit, but implied that whoever was on the boat would shock Locke. I u