wow, best lost episode ever.
IMHO Kate & Jack are boring but Desmond is the good stuff.
Looks like one who gets blasted with radiation (like the hatch blowing) become sensitive to the space/time character of the island...this puts people sliding through the two possible realities that occur from the moment they breach certain streams of flux.

beautiful episode...perfect mix of canon and human interaction.

best episode so far in the series...

Agreed - possibly best episode of all time. Best mix of giving lots of new ground breaking information while at the same time taking the mystery to a new level. Wow

what episode was the doctor on boat on? he's been on a previous episode...

Holy Shit. I loved this episode. I almost started crying like a baby when Desmond started talking to Penny

OMG

i missed the ending - what was written in the notebook in the end?

It said something to the effect of, if I am lost, Desmond Hume will be my constant

After last weeks gut wrenching ending - this week's shocker was a rather happy ending! I hope all their lives suck except for des and penelopy's.

So who is the captin? and where is Teneal?

did Michael Douglas play Mickowski???

best. episode. ever. congrats to the writers on crafting the perfect time travel episode. The only way to explain it was to take the viewer on the trip with Des. Amazing continuity. The Blackrock reference during the auction was incredible. 1844. And the owner of the book. mindblowing.

So Des is normal after his distortion syndrome. Daniel's set in case it happens to him.

So Penny's now got to recontact the boat and possibly go public.

Could this have implications on everyone else? they all can't be going through this since everyone would notice their catatonic states all the time but could the 'flashbacks' about each character throughout the series be each of their own time distortion 'flashbacks'? You'll always notice other Lost characters in other character's flashbacks but they don't know it. Could many of the passengers be 'constants' to other passengers?

regardless, they've explained so much but leave so much more opportunity.

A very sincere thank you to the writers.

ok.... what was up with the black rock stuff? why didn't dan remember desmond? it is a bad idea making people a constant, people die. who is the man on the boat, michel or walt maybe? and why is the perception of time on the island faster than what "real time" is?

amazine.
the journal from the black is a new clue.

very well done episode. desmond may not have been my favorite character, but that was satisfying. strange that it got me choked up getting to hear them on the phone. faraday is getting to be my favorite introduced this season. hes just awesome.

to RMC: had the same idea, and wasnt pennys dad bidding on it?

Holy paradoxes, Batman! That was insane! So a very particular rate of radiation exposure sends the consciousness forward in time... The way that the flashes occur closer and closer together indicates in my mind a sort of Golden Spiral effect. Time variants decrease exponentially based on a mathematical factor, until a critical mass is reached when the time slips occur so close that they are essentially happening all at the same time, and the brain overloads. If my understanding is correct, Desmond still does not have his memories of the island. The anchor thing doesn't exactly make sense to me unless it is a mind-over-matter sort of thing. And Daniel! I imagine he's choosing Desmond as his constant because he is very succinct proof that time travel is possible...sort of. But that seems very odd to me, that events occurring in the past that are revisited by a "time traveler" can be altered and remembered by the characters of the future. It makes sense of course, that messing with the past alters the future, but up until this point I was assuming an alternate worldview sort of time travel...obviously I was wrong. And in a way I think this explains how everyone's lives are so entangled with each other. The supposed "time police" hinted at way back in Flashes Before Your Eyes alter events so that specific things happen in the lives of certain individuals...pointing the captain of the Black Rock towards the island...helping in the con that forced Sawyer's dad to kill his wife and himself...almost microscopic influence that they know will have a certain influence, probably because they have been experimenting for years. If they muck something up they can just go back and change it, so theoretically this time altering could have been happening for a matter of decades, but because the history of our timeline is altered it's practically invisible. And I daresay that the numbers may have something to do with this as well...of course it's all speculation, and even I am right the chances of them explaining it that succinctly are very, very low. Either way, I think it's obvious we are finally on the verge of getting some answers.

the journal has a lot of implications. That was in 1996. Whitmore owns it now but didn't he work with the Hanso corporation? If not, the dharma project is run by hanso so that is the connection there. Could what they learned from the journal be part of how the island came to being discovered and settled on by the dharma project?

Talk about some "Slaughterhouse Five" WTF moments. This season just keeps getting better and better. So who thinks that Ben's inside man may be Michael? Also, what connections could there be between Hanso, Widmore, and the Black Rock? Does hidmore know something we don't?

Incredible. This episode is absolutely amazing. Along with new additions to the cast came the nod to who ever Ben has on the boat. Minkowski tells them they must have a friend on the boat. And Sayid's electronic skills come in handy. And we have a some what reason for Desmond being discharged/leaving the military. His crazy behavior would probably do the trick. The best cut of the episode is Sayid in mid sentence and it just cuts right to Desmond on the stairs in a stupor. It was brilliant. I was giddy the entire time because I knew that this was LOST at it's prime, and after 4 years. Who would have known. I'm proud to say that I am in love with Lost and I always will be.

been thinking that Bens inside man was Michael since he said he had a man on the boat. makes sense to me.

OK, so I think this episode revealed more about Faraday than we realize (aside from him seeming kinda like an asshole in 1996). When he was talking to Desmond and figuring out what happened to him, he asked if he'd recently been exposed to any strong magnetism or radiation, because that can make coming to or leaving the island trigger the time travel effects. Then at the end of the episode, we learned that Faraday may be experiencing it too. After all, he was regularly exposed to radiation, he said he ran that experiment 20 times a day, and as Desmond pointed out, his head wasn't protected. Plus, we saw last week that he and Charlotte were doing something mysterious, that seemed to have to do with Faraday remembering things. In addition to all this, Faraday seems to have changed a lot in the 8 years. In 1996 he was kinda weird, and kinda a jerk I thought. He didn't seem to have his weird quirkiness or niceness that he has on the island.

What it all means, I'm not sure, but I think it's safe to say that the radiation Faraday's experiments exposed him to set him up to have his consciousness time travel once he travelled to the island.

One thing that I also want to point out is the apparent time paradox. Faraday told Desmond to tell 1996 Faraday to set the device to 2.432 and make sure it's oscillating at 11 Hz, which 1996 Faraday then wrote in his notebook, allowing himself to give the numbers to Desmond 8 years later.

Basically, holy crap that episode was nuts.

Alright, that's it. It's official. Any episode that is Desmond-centric or has Desmond as a key side-story is simply mind-boggling and amazing. They always provide for the BEST episodes of Lost. Locke-centric episodes are pretty good too.

The "minor" point mentioned in the episode is that they took at dusk and landed on the freighter in the middle of the day. Maybe I missed something but was that clearly explained? So it would appear that what Faraday discovered with the time lagged probe and this particular incident suggests some kind of INSTANT shift in time once an object passes through whatever "shield" surrounds the island.

Some observations that may or may not mean anything:

423 Cheyne Walk was Penny's new address. 4 and 23 are two of the numbers. According to Wikipedia, "Cheyne Walk (pronounced Chain-ee) is an historic street in Chelsea, a bit of picturesque old London, England. Most of the houses were built in the early eighteenth century. Before the construction in the nineteenth century of the busy Embankment, which now runs in front of it, the houses fronted the River Thames." Hmm, around the time the Black Rock set sail (1844). I couldn't catch from where the Block Rock set sail or its intended destination.

The auction number for the Black Rock's journal was 2342; 23 and 42 are two of the numbers.

Ok, here's the thing, doesn't daniel have a caretaker in the first flashback with him, as explained in the enhanced version of the episode, when he is crying about the plane. this could have to do with the time jumps
2. minkowski doesn't forget what happened to him before he got ill, wheras desmond does, is he jumping forward instead of back...is the same thing happening to daniel?
3. desmonds comment about why aren't you wearing anything on your head could be sarcasm/foreshadowing, for if daniel had a caretaker, maybe he lost his memory...and thus maybe the memory game was to see if he was getting better, ala, Locke, ala, the healing powers of the island.
maybe daniel is healed now from meeting desmond, and maybe that's what started to bring his memory back...who knows, this show is awesome!

Best episode ever, agreed. First episode where there were more questions answered than asked.

Penny knows about the island and such and starts searching for Des prior to this episode because of something she finds in the Black Rock journal her Dad purchases.

I hope Desmond is not the guy in the coffin, that would destroy this show for me.

IS it safe to believe Ben is able to either time travel or knows so much about past and present that everything he does is carefully plotted out as a result? Ben knows every move that is going to happen which is why he doesn't watch the show Lost?

As for Minkowski's death? That's a bit premature. How many times did we see Mikhail die before he actually did? Actually, I never saw Mikhail bits from the grenade blast so...

What are the odds that in 2004 the Black Rock journal is up for auction again say for, 3.2 million dollars? Perhaps Miles wants to speak with some ghosts.

what about rousseau? does that make her like 150 real-time years old?

Holy cow! My dvr crashed in the last two minutes - just as Des was calling Penny and the phone crashed! Can someone give me a quick blow by blow? Thanks!

Need I point out that tomorrow is a leap year?

I didn't read through all the postings but I had said after the card thing with Faraday last week that it had to do with a brain problem. Because the lady in the other episode was his caretaker and not his wife. In this episode he had on a metal vest but no head protection from the radiation. I said that I thought it wasn't anything related to ESP but was possibly a brain tumor that was causing him to have memory problems. Hence the notebook.

Does anyone else remember seeing Minkowski before? Was he the guy who gave Hurley the numbers in the mental hospital??

Need some help with the Rousseau question. Doesn't this make her like 25 years old in the real world?? My brain is really messed up after tonight!!

So let me see if I have this right. Island time has moved 3 days (72 hours according to Jack last week) to 1 hour of boat time (40 minute trip according to Juliet).

So 100 days of island time is a day and half (33 hours) real time...
or 1 year island time is 5 days in real time.

Rousseau has been on the island 16 years of island time... which would be 80 days in real time??

There must be a flaw here, because the date on the boat is December 24, 2004... which is close to what it should be as counted in island time.

Somebody set me straight!!

I thought maybe the time difference was 31X 1min= 31min They said it should have taken around 30min? 30min=930min= 15.5 hours different. Maybe the multiple increases with the passage of time. Just a thought?

Maybe not just hours but days different. Someone else had said when Faraday did the experiment that it could be days and minutes because there didn't seem to be a date just a clock. The time could work in both directions. Forward and Backward?

i cant imagine how hard that episode mustve been to edit...final cut pro is amazing :-P but it was great

and idk if i heard correctly but was the Black Rock books previous owner someone with the name Hanso??/

great episode tony if rousseau is 150 yrs old that means the ship she was on that crashed was the blackrock.

Agreed with the other posters, best episode of the series ever. Desmond and Penny are the heart of the show and I think they'll be the ultimate source of salvation.

Somebody mentioned "Slaughterhouse-five" earlier and I think that's dead on. The connection came to me when Faraday said the rat had become "unstuck in time." This is exactly what happened to Billy Pilgrim. Thanks to the Tralfamadorians, he saw all points in time, past and future, but was powerless to change them, to the point that he knew the exact moment of his death and was powerless to stop it.

So it goes.

What do y'all think?

Best episode to date ever!!! I didn't like the fact of Minkowski dying off right away. I thought he was supposed to be the "head honcho" for the freighters but in reality he was just the comminications officer. Huskarine, that was not Michael Douglas playing Minkowski, it was Fisher Stevens. Grace, the guy playing Minkowski which was Fisher Stevens is not the same guy who gave Hurley the numbers at the mental ward. This episode was basically the only episode to introduce Minkowski physically. I'm also starting to beleive that Michael is Ben's man on the boat. As for the Oceanic 6, I can bet you anything it's:
Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Aaron and Michael. Did anyone get teary eyed when Desmond was finally talking to Penny?

I've been a huge advocate of the idea that time is traveling much faster off the island. However, I think this episode shot that theory down. The calender stating it was 2004 was enough proof. Even if the freighter was within the time difference circle that the island is in, the only way it could be the same date is if the boat AND plane ended up in the circle at virtually the same time. But the case was closed when Desmond and Penelope spoke on Christmas Eve 2004.

But time is still very much a factor. It took almost a full day on the island for the helicopter to make a 20 minute trip. There's something not right about that.

timetable of penny appearences:

1 monastery where she first met desmond
2 dating des and taking picture with him on the waterfront before he dumps her
3 at the stadium just before desmond meet jack (remember that?)
4 talk with charlie
5 ending of the constant
6 ending of seson 2

right?

Dez is not the only one on the island who has experienced this. If I recall correctly last season during the episode in which Jack is held prisoner we see flash backs of him getting his tattoo's. At one point he wakes up to see a crowd of people viewing him like a creature at the zoo. I can't remember exactly what happened during this moment but I do remember thinking that it felt like Jack had been snapped back from his flashback.

If anyone else remembers this or has this episode can you confirm this?

I'm just waiting for the point where Q takes Desmond back to the beginning of man and demonstrates how the anomaly will end mankind's existence before it even begins. Then Riker will show up with a three-nacelle Enterprise and take out the Klingons. Then they'll all play poker.

(sorry for the threadjack, I just couldn't help but notice the similarity and get giggly.)

On board with everyone else. The most mind blowing episode on lost yet. Even more so then Season 2 finale.

My crazy prediction: Jacob is the captain of the Black Rock and he is stuck between times. Rather then having his head explode he just simultainously experiences both. Could be right, could be wrong.

I really liked the comment about the Black Rock journal going for 3.2 million dollars. There is more then meets the eye about the journal. And yes, it was owned by a Hanso. So where is Alvar Hanso?

This episode was amazing. I think that Rousseau was on the black rock and we will find that out in the journal that is being sold for 3.2 million dollars. As far as what Jacob is I don't know.

I think this episode anwsered some really great questions

1, the future can not be changed according to Faraday. That means that all those flash fowards including when Jack was a bit insane, really happen (there was some speculation that they were alternative futures)

#2 We learned from the calendar that the island is on real world time. I think I read once that time slows down when in the presence of a great amount of gravity (like a black hole) could the same be true of a large amount of magnetism? I think its only that outer circle, that storm where time goes very slowly. On either side of it, time continues to go at a normal pace. Besides the calendar, we have the fact that Ben is aging at a normal rate to help bolster this idea. He was born in the early 1960's which would put in in his late 40's which I would say is about right (the actor playing him is 54 btw)

Wow. I love that show. My brain hurts.. But not as much as Minkowski's

I guess when Des tried to sail off the island that may have triggered the Flashes of things that would happen in the near future...

I really like the theory above about Jacob being the Capt of the Black Rock. Nice thought.

Seriously my head hurts...Nose bleeding... sdafklj dflklsd lafsk slkjd (face on keyboard)

doa766 I think you're almost right about the order of Penny's appearances except the ending of season 2.

I had it like this:

timetable of penny appearances:

1 monastery where she first met desmond
2 dating des and taking picture with him on the waterfront before he dumps her
3 des's release from the stockade, and seeing des at the stadium just before desmond meets jack
4 ending of season 2
5 talk with charlie
6 ending of the constant

You had the end of season 2 last, but she said she had been searching for des for 3 years. During that time, he left on the boat race, was in the hatch entering the numbers, and was eventually forced to turn the key to the fail safe. This fail safe event then triggered the electromagnetic anomaly, which was recorded by our favorite Antarctica listening station fellas who then called Penny to inform her. After that she had coordinates to survey radio transmissions from a specific area, in turn is how she was able to receive Charlie's signal from the Looking Glass station. When des called at the end of "The Constant", the time from Penny hearing that des was with Charlie and supposedly "brilliant" according to Charlie, and receiving the call from des were relatively short. Maybe just 3 or 4 days.

In The Constant, the doctor on the freighter looked very familiar. Was he Edmund Burke, Juliet's husband? Anyone have a screenshot??

Cool idea about Rosseau and being on the Black Rock. But women in those days typically weren't crew on ships. And isn't Alex 16? How does that factor in? Also, how would Rosseau know how to use the electronic equipment in the tower if she were on a ship that didn't use electronic equipment?

Yeah, I think the "ozone" layer that surrounds the island is where the time warp is...

BUT, here's what I want to know, that sort of plays in to this discussion.

I just watched season 1 & 2 over the last two weeks. In one of those early seasons, a couple of the losties found the cockpit of the plane and that pilot who was barely alive. Then the pilot got eaten by the black monster.

BUT, when this season started, the underwater explorer team "found" a cockpit with the pilot who was mis-identified.

So, how can there be two cockpits? Were there 2 flight 815's? Is it a time warp thing?

On aonther note, I think Widmore is "behind it all" and is fully aware of what is going on. I think that 815 was purposely crashed on the island (Widmore/Hanso needed a new group of subjects).

AND - I think Ben is a good guy - sort of like Snape in the Harry Potter series. Sayid would never support him otherwise. I think Ben knows that Widmore/Hanso use the island (hidden to the rest of the world) for nefarious purposes and is trying to keep that from happening.

Jeff W. -- Yes!! I thought of the same Trek ep. Indeed, that ep. was the inspiration for cutting back in forth in time the way we did: clean with no fancy visual or sound effects; simply: you're here, and now you're there.

And Garen Arargil -- this ep was definitely a lot of work to edit, but it was a blast. Thanks for noticing.

[ . . . Oh yeah, and we use an AVID, not Final Cut Pro.]

--MJG

What a piece of shit Lost just became. For me this show is dead.

Isn't it great to see a really well written TV show? Now that's what I'm talkin' about.

Okay, so if I'm getting this - the island itself has become, as Farraday put it - "unstuck in time". Follow me on this... They fire a projectile from a ship 40 miles off shore at a very high velocity - maybe it should take 5 minutes to impact. It takes 3 hours and change to actually hit the island. That's three hours added - coming into the island at a very high rate of speed.

Reverse course... The helicopter leaves at dusk, but lands midday after going through a short storm. Say the helicopter was going 80 - 100 mph. (A hell of a lot slower than that projectile thing anyway.) In island time, that 40 mile trip took, what, a day and a half? A day and a half backwards from dusk would be... midday, the day BEFORE.

Yet, the calender clearly let us know it was roughly about 100 days since 815 went down. Essentially, the island is moving foward chronologically through time at the same constant rate of speed we are - only a day or so AHEAD of us. The island clock has essentially become "unstuck in time". Rousseau has been on that island for 16 years, plus one day.

Okay, here comes the real kicker: The satelite phones. They are talking ship to shore and having a conversation - on different days. Thursday Sayid is talking to Friday Jack when he finally calls. WTF? Going further into pandora's box... what happens to the human mind when you physically go from tomorrow to yesterday? You would remember your future, but not your past, right?

I really hope that the sickness is the time travel madness because it would make alot more sense. Since people start bleeding out there noses and eyes (cloverfield anyone?)

Also, i think daniel is a time traveler cz he was working with large ammounts of radiation which seems to somehow cause it

I dno, amazing episode though !

I think, obviously, Daniel's exposer to the radiation gave him a brain tumor. The card tests on the island were checking for healing. This also explains a caretaker if he was sick.

some points in picked up that might be interesting in desmond and farraday's convo at oxford, and other farraday scenes:

1) farraday puts on the protection vest, and desmond asks "what about your head"
2) farraday asks why he wouldn't have remembered the meeting in the future, and desmond says, "maybe you forgot"...farraday responds, "how would that happen", or something to that effect
3) farraday keeps pretty copious notes
4) the card game trying to remember the cards

i think you add those up, and the radiation exposure/tests effected farraday's memory (short, long term) or i think someone else mentions alzheimers...so, he has a memory problem, but he knows time travel, which is why he is there. assuming as AzureDetroit points out, they know about the islands healing properties, indeed they are testing whether his memory is getting better (tumor, cell loss, whatever).

still confused on that other bitchy lady from the boat with farraday on the beach (forgot her name). don't like her attitude. the pilot, and farrady, even miles are cool. she[s annoying, i hope locke blows her up.

something to think about.

^^Rooster

A Very, VERY good idea there mate.

I know Micheal is most likely Ben's man, but what if it is Ben himself. Has he mastered time travel?

In The Constant, the doctor on the freighter looked very familiar. Was he Edmund Burke, Juliet's husband? Anyone have a screenshot??

Posted By VALIS | February 29, 2008 12:06 AM

I don't think he played Juliet's husband.

I belive he's the actor who plays Ecklie on CSI. I don't remember him playing another character on Lost.

Absolutely the best episode yet - thrilling - exciting - so well done!!

I am a bit confused about something...

I thought that after Dez dumped Penny he set off sailing soon after - so that's not true? I didn't realize 8 years had elapsed. Why did she suddenly start looking for him only 3 years ago if he'd been gone for at least 5 years?

I thought at the end when Sayid asked Desmond how he was doing. He said he was Patrick. What is that about??

is penny wearing a wedding ring whens shes talking in 2004?

I'm glad everyone is raving about this episode, because I was personally unimpressed!

Time travel? Really? Is this the direction of the show? Rips in the time continuum? Been there done that with Biff's Hideaway Hotel. Maybe next episdoe we will find out one of the hatches manufactures flex capacators....

I'm still a staunch fan and I have many ideas, so I am not giving up... I just really hope time travel isn't what this show is going to be all about. Unimpressive if so.

Further predictions:
Christopher lloyd will appear in three upcoming episodes to renew his role as Doc Brown. He will play a distant relative of Daniel Farrady who is sent to the island to remind him where he hid his Delorean.

There is a flex capacator hidden in the HYDRA

The Island is really an alturnative 2007 that was formed from a rip in the time continuum when Oceanic Flight 815 hit 88.8 mph.

The Black Rock has a secret stash of plutonium on it; the Libyans, secretly hidding out in the Hanso foundation, have been looking for it. Thus all of the VW busses on the island (we will remeber that the Libyans showed up in a VW bus at the Hill Valley Mall).

Kate is really Jack's mother; Jack's real name is Calvin Kline

Michael J Fox is Ben's spy

Compelling stuff.... really!

WANT SOME ANSWERS? - Read On

I personal believe the auction of the Black Rock journal was the more telling piece of this episode than Desmond’s adventure. The site below gives the crew manifest of the Black Rock. The site has been up for a long time but it seems many still do not know about it. I believe Penny’s father (Charles Widmore) is a descendent of the 1st (Alexander Widmore) and 2nd (Clifford Widmore) mates of the Black Rock. Alvar Hanso is the descendent of the Caption (Magnus Hanso) of the Rock Black, not Jacob Deyer (read below).

http://www.onentofl.com/magnushanso.html

My theory, both families knew about the island from their descendents, which lead them to start the DHARMA Initiative. However, Jacob (Jacob Deyer from the Black Rock crew manifest) and some of the other crew of the Black Rock (e.g., Richard Alpert) have survived on the island keeping it safe from their officers’ descendent (Widmore and Hanso) from exploiting it. I imagine Jacob was the leader of a mutiny. Jacob and Richard have some who survived through some of the usually properties of the island.

The Widmore family is now in control (taking power from Hanso) and trying to relocated the island after the "purge" conducted by the "Others" (i.e., Ben). This is why Penny’s father bought the journal, which was used to relocated the island. The ship Desmond is on most likely belongs to Penny’s father, which is why they have been instructed not to talk to Penny! Charles Widmore also owns the Maxwell Group, which was used to deflect public attention from the Flight 815.

Ok this is how i see it:
time isnt linear, its all playing out simeultaniously.
This being said then although physical time travel has too much paradox to be plausible but what about the mind time traveling to various points in your own existence? Having a constant to anchor you down helps bring your consciousness back to the proper time.
Now this is fascinating and obvious a very powerful aspect to the island but what really boggles me is this: is Charles Whidmore the economist? (searching for the island hoping to use its powers for personal gain) or the guy behind Ben (planting desmond and others to protect his investment)?

I originally considered Michael as Ben's "man on the boat" too but a few things about it don't add up.
1) Why would Michael continue to help Ben once leaving the island? Ben kidnapped his son and forced him to kill and betray people to get him back. Its hard to imagine him helping Ben out...unless Ben still has collateral on him with Walt, or Michael has realized Ben is good and freighties are bad.
2) Wouldn't the freighter people have Michael and Walt locked up and not given free roam of the ship and contact with Ben? Michael would have clearly come from the island in that small boat, they have the manifest they both were on and Michael would have told him who he was anyways, thinking they would rescue him. I find it hard to believe he would be allowed to do anything of consequence on the ship.

Did anyone notice that the number 2.342 Faraday gave to Desmond were the same as the lot number for the Black Rock Diary auction, 2342?

Also two of the original "numbers", 23 and 42.

Well, it seems to me that JJ Abrahms likes Star Trek, as there are parrells between this episode, and the Star Trek Episode All Good Things....in which Capt. Picard travels through time, the same way Des, and MInkowski do, and experiences a time paradox....very interesting i think.

ChrisAnalyst, where did you find that site? Do you know if it is legitimate? There are the names of at least 2 of the freighter people (Faraday and Miles) on there. The manifest does help bolster a couple of my theories about what is going on but I never would have thought that some of the freighter people could have been two of the pirates from the Black Rock. Could Charlotte be as well? The site mentioned that sometimes the ship would have unregistered people on board. Hmmmm, the plot thickens.

The comm station on the ship must have been destroyed as a result of the Looking Glass going down. TBen's man on the boat didn't want contact with the outside world/island once the signal was no longer jammed.

Why would someone prohibit Minkowski from specifically answering Penny's calls? The only person who would not want Penny to make contact with the island is Mr. Widmore. I doubt Penny would be calling random boats to see if they found a random island, instead she is trying to find out a progress report on her father's operation.

How do we know Minkowski wasn't Ben's man on the boat? He was the comms officer and the guy who would have access to Ben the most? Would he experience the sickness from just being 60 plus miles outside of the island or perhaps he was previously on the island talking with Ben? Lapidus could have opened the door for Sayid/Desmond to get out of the sickbay.

Hanso
Mr. Widmore
Ben
Dharma
How do these four factions fit together, who works for who?

Wouldn't the "man on the boat" be Sam from find815.com?

Just a thought......

wow! what an episode! I think that michael is the man on the boat and that he opened the door for desmond and sayid. Is Michael trying to redeem himself? Who cares hes a murderer!

What if Ben himself was the man on the boat. Is it possible that Ben has mastered the art of time travel?

Chrisanylst, all due respect, but I think that the site you referred to should not be taken as canon. Carlton/Cuse said it themselves that the only thing that would lend clues and credence to the mysteries of the show was in fact the show itself. Not to mention the list of names on the manifest lists two names from the Heroes series on there. Those being Daniel Linderman and Adam Munroe. I'd hate to think (as much as I like Heroes too) that the writers were going to tie Lost and Heroes together. Nice find tho...

Please answer to this:

-At the auction the auctioneer says that The Black Rock sailed in 1845, but the dynamite that we know is on board won't be invented until 1866.
Is this an authors' mistake or is it an intentional choice?

-Is it a wedding ring the ring that Penny wears at the end of the episode?

I have to say, I've been reading and have posted once or twice on here since season 4 began. First off, spellcheck people. Please, for the love of God spell check. I know this site doesn't have a spell check but get a dictionary or something come on. Last night's episode was in my opinion the best of the entire series so far. I am a hugr Sci-Fi nut, time travel most of all. I do have to say though what bugs me the most about most of the postings here is that alot of you, not all but alot, don't seem to actually pay attention to the episode or the show as a whole and don't use some common sense on alot of this stuff. If you thought about some of it for 2 seconds you could figure it out before you post something. Heidi Sayid asked Desmond if he was ok do you really think Desmond said Patrick? Really? Do you think maybe he might have said perfect? Mark, Desmond broke up with Penny then joined the the Queen's army. Then did something to wind up getting sent to prison in the army, got out, trained for the boat race during which he wrecked on the island. Penny had been looking for him in the 3 years since he left on the boat race.

Overall, I loved this episode. I didn't understand half of it, but I was crying at the end with Desmond and Penny. I have been wondering if those two would ever see each other again.
Interesting that Widmore bought the Black Rock diary. Could it be because he knows about Dharma, where the island is, knows that the diary would lead somebody to find the island, and he doesn't want anybody else to know where it is?

Okay, here's my question: All this time we've been thinking that when Jack and Hurley say "Lets go back" they mean LITERALLY go back. What if it's going to turn out that they only travel back in time to the past, in order to change something that happened in the past?

But Daniel said you cannot change the future, and Darlton said in the EW online interview that they are against the idea of PARADOX. But wouldn't traveling back in time to change the past also change the future, and therefore cause a paradox?

I hope that's not what happens. I want them to go back to the island for real, and if it only turns out to be time traveling back to the island, that's really going to suck!

Do you think that Desmond's flashes of future occurrences (Charlie's drowning) were glimpses into his own time travel potential while on the island?

I think Ben's man on the boat is Michael...here's how it works:
1. Ben gives Michael the azimuth to sail out of the island's electromagnetic hold...
2. Michael is on the boat, basically to sabotage everything about the possible rescue, because the Losties know that he is a murderer, and he could possibly be convicted back home...
3. Michael will be introduced back into Lost on a cliff hanger in the end of a future episode... (possibly Sayid will discover him sabotaging)
4. Michael will be the man in the coffin after he commits suicide for many different reasons (and no one will go to his funeral/viewing because he HAS no one left back in the real world)

what is interesting is that, Minckowski said that they have a "friend" on the freighter that is causing them to not want to be found...this makes it sound that the freighter people are definitely not on the losties's side in the beginning...things essentially need to begin again...

my overall theory about the freighter people is that they are a DHARMA hit squad, needing to destroy the last of DHARMA (Ben) and cover up from the rest of the world (whatever that takes)...the reason for the other four people going to the island is to start over new research on the island...I have a feeling that the captain on the ship is Alvar Hanso...

one other thing, is that the interesting conflict will be Penny forcing rescuing efforts towards the island, while they try to cover up (which explains the radio silence from her when the freighter people got connection to the island)...

of course, this is all speculation, so if I am wrong, don't tar and feather me (the whole point of the show is speculation...it's what drives it)

and the theme of this show, if it were to be personified by a regular song, would be "The Fly" by U2...

msintin:

course correcting.

the old lady in the ring shop talking to desmond, said somthing to this effect you can't stop it, it will always correct itself.

rico:
thank you someone else saw the ring but i dont know if its a wedding one or not, seemed to be on the correct finger.

Could it be possible that the reason why Farraday wasn't wearing anything on his head is because he WANTED to be exposed to radiation? He implied you need to be exposed to radiation to experience time travel (hence, the purple radiation machine for the rat). It could be possible that he wanted to be exposed to it himself to allow for time travel. Why does he wear the vest? Well...everyone hates tumors.

It is also probable that widmore hired him because he had experienced time travel and therefore could make better assumptions about the properties of the island.

PS: Just a side note, I re-watched the numbers episode yesterday and the guy in the asylum hurley goes to see says something about how with hurley using the numbers he's "opened the box". Ben also makes a reference to the island as a magic box. Just something neat I picked up. Don't really know what it could mean...was the passage to the island closed before Hurley used the numbers?

? Is it me or is there a reason why there is a link to Suresh's Dream Study on one the pages here (ad on "Eggland" Topic) also there are 2 people on a different manifest for the Black Pearl from Hereos... Linderman is one.

if the blackrock went missing in 1844 wouldnt that mean Rousseau is lying about cumin on the ship because she wud be about 150 now .. am i right get bk people please to this regarding the blackrock..

unless its the TIME THING again and shes like alpert and not aged because shes been on the island for 150 years and not aged but the time is different so its 150 years (or sumat like that) instead of 16 what she thinks????

that last part sounds messed up but let me no wat u fink please

Further predictions:
Christopher lloyd will appear in three upcoming episodes to renew his role as Doc Brown. He will play a distant relative of Daniel Farrady who is sent to the island to remind him where he hid his Delorean.

There is a flex capacator hidden in the HYDRA

The Island is really an alturnative 2007 that was formed from a rip in the time continuum when Oceanic Flight 815 hit 88.8 mph.

The Black Rock has a secret stash of plutonium on it; the Libyans, secretly hidding out in the Hanso foundation, have been looking for it. Thus all of the VW busses on the island (we will remeber that the Libyans showed up in a VW bus at the Hill Valley Mall).

Kate is really Jack's mother; Jack's real name is Calvin Kline

Michael J Fox is Ben's spy

Compelling stuff.... really!

Posted By Kevin

You forgot the amount of energy wasted with the explosion of the swan... 1.21 Giga watts. =P

BTTF Fan

Sean - JJ Abrams didn't write this ep, being a little busy with his small movie. Damon and Carlton were not thinking of the Trek ep., though they saw it when it first aired, of course. But as I mentioned above, the style of cutting between times was inspired by that Trek ep.

--MJG

anyone notice that on the Black Rock crew list is Daniel Farraday?

http://www.onentofl.com/magnushanso.html

The crew manifest has a lot of interesting names.

Is Miles Straume the same as Miles Strom?

Dr. Alvin Kurtzweil is from the X-Files series
Thomas Mettlewerk took over the Hanso Foundation
Richard Alpert is the person Ben saw when he was a kid

Do we know if this is a legit site?

I love this blog and enjoy reading people's thoughts and theories. But, I agree with Adam that many people should spell check and use some common sense before posting. (Try writing it in Word, spell check, and copy and paste it.) People sound ridiculous when they say things like 'let me no wat u fink please'. Seriously? (To Adam: if you're going to bitch about typos, then try to avoid having them in your own post: 'alot' is two words; 'huge', not 'hugr'.)

Also, try not to repeat the same thing others have said. For example, 'Michael is Ben's man on the boat' must have been said at least a half dozen times. A lot of people think that. If you're going to contribute to the discussion of the man on the boat, present a new theory, offer more evidence to support the theory that Michael is the man on the boat, or don't say anything about it. This brings me to my next point: READ the previous posts. This will avoid unnecessary repetition.

Penny is wearing a ring on her right hand. It's not a wedding ring. Minkowski is not Leonard from the mental institution. You can check IMDB for stuff like that.

I really like the theory about Danielle being on the Black Rock. I'm not going to do the math, but it seems plausible that 16 years on the island might equate to 160 years off-island. The ship calendar could be correct. They are docked outside the 'time-barrier'. Frank drives through the storm (it is dusk) and comes out on the other side (it is daytime) to get to the ship. This would explain how Minkowski was affected by leaving the boat to go see the island. He broke the barrier and was affected.

And though the Black Rock manifest posted by ChrisAnalyst is quite intriguing, I'd like some confirmation on the validity of that source. (Someone pointed out that there were two names of Heroes cast members. That makes the whole thing highly speculative. Good catch there. I doubt ABC and NBC would be intertwining their characters.)

And to those who think this episode sucked (or that any time travel theory sucks): you should have stopped watching after Flashes Before Your Eyes. This was a beautifully written and edited episode. Answer a bit, confirm some suspicions, raise new questions, a twinge of catharsis, and a newfound suspense. How many other shows give us that? You're not going to get that kind of depth anywhere. (Not even with Heroes. They try so desperately to capture the intrigue of Lost, but can't draw out any kind of mystery for any extended period of time.) If you don't like the suspense and the mystery and you want your cake right now, then don't watch. This is not the show for you. As for me, I can be patient and enjoy the ride.

In the enhanced episode of Eggtown, it mentions (reminds us) that food is still being air-dropped on the island? By whom? DHARMA? Even after "The Purge"?
Still many questions remain...
Loved this week' episode, The Constant.....such an intelligently written show, unlike all others.
I've been addicted to LOST since Episode 1, with no hope of rehab....

I had a couple of things:

1) Penny did not have a ring on her left hand.

2) Ben never plays his hand. He always gives you the impression you’ve figured him out. That’s when he drops the hammer. He is the master of manipulation and deception. Ben said, “I have a man on the boat”. Could Ben’s man really be a woman? Could it be a woman named Regina? Or, is Regina Syieds long last love? It's just a thought. That would really turn this into Payton Place.

If the list of the members of the Black Rock is legit, it changes everything. I'm going to wait until it is confirmed. And if it IS legit, we'll get confirmation very shortly.

I believe that Desmond and Penelope saw each other in between those eight years. I think the flashback where Desmond and Penny speak at the stadium in L.A. happened around 2001, right before Des took off on a sail around the world.

The list of members of the Black Rock is bogus. IN addition to the Heroes members listed, Miles Strom is spelled wrong, making it obvious someone mocked up the site but didn't realize Strom is Straume. PLus, he posted it at least twice with no other analysis, obviously fishing.

On other lost sites, this site has been posted and researched, I give you the following excerpts:
"Well, my research show that the site administrator is a genealogy expert called Adrian Brisee from Irwin Iowa.

Also note that onentofl.com is a site about genealogy also registered by Adrian. Another thing, a google of Adrian Brisee shows that he and his wife bought an old school to create genealogy center ( see article here).

All of this leads me to believe that either our friend Adrian is a big fan of LOST and he created a bogus site just for the heck of it OR the prodcution team behind the show created one heck of a smoke screen."

"the site was made in Sitebuilder and most of the pics are cliparts from that program."

"Some of the pics show photoshopped dharma logos and there's one with a pic of one of the characters of Harry Potter (the dude with the mecanical eye from the 4th movie)."

I wouldn't give this site ANY credibility

Re Penny's ring. I was wondering about it too. They put it very clearly in the camera shot, and that's usually for a reason, we were supposed to notice it. And after the last Desmond ep which revolved around whether or not Des was going to buy her an engagement ring (which would be worn on her right hand). The jewelry store employee-fellow time traveller claimed that Des was not supposed to buy the ring. Yet, they clearly showed a ring on Penny's finger. Did Des buy the ring anyways, someone else????? I don't have the screenshots to compare the rings from the 2 episodes.

My theory about Desmond being Dan's constant:

In present-day Island time, Dan is scientifically familiar with the island's traits and side effects. He is able to diagnose Desmond - a person he has never known. The scientist that Dan is, questions Desmond about his flashbacks. Upon learning Des's whereabouts, he instructs Desmond to find himself, professor Dan, in 1996.

Current-day Dan would not be aware of this meeting and thus, on a theoretical hunch, reviews his journal to see if the 'other' Dan had indeed crossed paths with Des. And in his journal he finds revelation. LOW AND BEHOLD!

Easily the best Lost episode ever. WOW!

Adam--How ironic that you would complain about spelling and then write a note filled with typos.

As for Hanto--Get over yourself. This is a fan site, not a university. Know-it-alls and spelling police aren't needed.

This is supposed to be a fun place for people to share ideas. Lighten up.

I am wondering if the ship’s doctor examining Desmond’s eyes was more than just a standard medical test for pupil response, etc. I am thinking of the way the smoke monster seemed to go eyeball to eyeball with people, almost sizing them up. And when Juliet and Kate encountered the monster (when they were handcuffed together) it was dark and the monster seemed to emit bright flashes of light, like a camera flash. Maybe the smoke monster has a way of assessing the state (or presence) of a person’s consciousness by “looking” into their eyes.

I thought the episode sucked, I really believed that the show as going to give logical answers to all the questions. Now we have time travel bullshit, the show is no longer real, it's not about a plane crash and the survivors of the crash and how they get off the island. The show is now about things that don't exist. I was really hoping that everything would come together at the end and make sense, all the dots would be connected. Too much silly science fiction crap now, I'm very disappointed in the direction that the show has taken.

Later Jason, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I believe Lost has emitted some subliminal form of crack into it's programming. I am so dependent on seeing each episode, searching for Easter eggs, reading every comment and theory. I think I will need a 12 step program soon!!

Hey if you're into shit that isn't real, enjoy. You must really like super hero shows as well.

"Now we have time travel bullshit, the show is no longer real, it's not about a plane crash and the survivors of the crash and how they get off the island. The show is now about things that don't exist."

Ummm... Is this the first episode you've watched since the first 10 minutes of the pilot? This show has been all about "things that don't exist" for a little over 3 years now.

Best episode in a while for sure!

"And after the last Desmond ep which revolved around whether or not Des was going to buy her an engagement ring (which would be worn on her right hand)"

Engagement rings are worn on the left ring finger in England/Scotland/America - no reason why Penny would be wearing an engagement ring on her right hand.

Jason: So why didn't you stop watching after the first 20 implausible things? The black smoke, Jacob, what happened after desmond turned the key, or the fact that desmond went back in time last season and started knowing how people (charlie) would die? How were you expecting them to give "realistic" answers to any of those?

I agree with comments that the captain of the ship is Alvar Hanso. Hanso wanted to exploit the island's ability to displace inhabitants exposed to extreme amounts of its radiation through time in order to serve the ultimate goal of the Dharma Initiative: changing the numerical factors of the Valenzetti Equation. Ultimately, if someone else acquires the ability to move through time, whether or not such acquisition was inadvertent, that person could undo whatever work the Dharma Initiative was trying to accomplish.

From day one the producers have always come out and said that everything will come full circle and that there would be an explanation that made sense. people can have halucinations and see things that aren't there, that's real, polar bears were explained, black smoke who knows, but i'm sure that you can come up with something to explain that. time travel come on, are we going to find a flux capacitor and a daloren with dr. brown waiting for jack to take him back to the island on the last episode and everybody lives happily ever after. why don't they introduce star trek characters and maybe we can start using the phrase beam me up scotty. to each thier own, i'm just disappointed in whats going on, im just a realist.

Jason, c'mon, you have to love the show. The fact that it deals with mystery, suspense and thrills here and there is what keeps you glued to keep watching. The island itself has to reveal more things in order to come full circle. Think about it this way, the Others are pretty much wiped out and now we have to deal with the Freighters. After the Freighters there won't be any other group! That's it! Only 2 more seasons to go. Might as well enjoy it now before it's too late. Once the last season approaches, your going to be saying to yourself "I wish I was more like Locke then Jack." Now, I would be damned IF there was another group after the Freighters............the Blimp-people? lol

Can someone tell me what Desmond said at the end of "Constant?" I'm wearing my Tivo out.

SD wrote: "Later Jason, don't let the door hit you on the way out."

What's the point of a response like that? I mean, really, what is this--aintitcoolnews.com? Are people no longer able to read dissenting opinions without acting like jerks in response? I'd rather Jason stayed and YOU left.

i guess we've figured out why they can't have children on the island, while time is slower on the island than the real world this has a negative impact on creation but not on actual lives, that's why aaron could be born, but other mothers on the island would die. not sure where i am going with this?

does this mean that the hostiles, original others, be the original crew/slaves from the black rock?

got a chance to watch again. the first time was intense, and wanted to see, did anyone else just crack up laughing when desmond starts shining that light in his eyes, thinking it will help him "go back".

that had to be the funniest serious moment in the series.

more desmond. the only thing better then a time traveling desmond, is a drunk desmond...toss up.

i agree with Bob. this isn't a pad yourself on the back, let's do "trust falls" comment forum is it?

i like hearing about people who are questing the writing talent, and shows direction.

to me, if it wasn't for the character development, and actors themselves, and direction, face it, the story is either pretty lame when it isn't adding up, or severely borrowed from better sources. there i said it :-)

i had a group over at the beginning of this season that never saw the show. they came for that one hour summary ben narrated and half of them left during that because they were like: are you kidding me, this is ridiculous. to their defense, the story is all over the place, and too many coincendences, "and jack is claires half brother..."...just make it stupid..."and kate runs into sawyers ex who has his baby, and now kate might have it to".....

but that doesn't mean we can't express that does it?

i'll still watch, and still critique. if we don't the show will really get worse. i know some people who were on set the first season and they flat out said the writers had no idea where they were taking the story, so indeed, they are watching these forums and listening, which is cool...and means we shouldn't just sit back and watch melrose place meets the x-files meets star trek.

i just also find it to convenient that alpert and the "other others" were mostly on the island for a long time, and all of a sudden a bumbling gilligans island group comes to the island and the original group is just unaccounted for...or maybe that is season 5....this season is the "freighter boat" and flash forwards...

roost

Ok Ok.. had to post about this ep the day after because my mind was melting after last nights ep.. lol everytime i was thinking over a theory, another theory would overlap it lol.. So now..

I Strongly believe that 1 hour on the island is about 20 hours off the island.. theyve shown us there is time travell in lost and now we have to figure this out so here it goes..

- Sayid said that they left the island at dusk and got to the boat in the afternoon.

- If you work it out that turns out to be about 18-20 hours later. So if you think about it, it would seem that 20 hours off the island is about 1 hour on the island..

-So it works out that 1 day on the island is 20 days off the island.

- Theyve been on the island for 92 days which means that theyve really been gone for 1840 days in off island time and that works out to be around 4.5-5 years in off island time...

- Funny how its been about 4 years since lost first aired isnt it..

-So thats why i beleive that theyve been on the island for quite a few years.. but they believe its only