Amazing episode! Loved the science vs faith concept coming back up! A great way to welcome us back to our favorite show

It was definitely Christian Shepard in Jacob's cabin. Note the white tennis shoes from mobisode #13.

We all know Jack shouldn't grow a beard and how awesome it was when Danielle punched Ben. All the other questions... who knows? I'm just along for the ride.

But... We need to keep in mind the details from the Orchid video. The "Cashmere Effect" I believe? Dopplegangers and alternate realities. I think Charlie haunting Hurley can be one of two things: A "Tell Tale Heart" of sorts for Hurley OR it's the islands way of communicating with him.

So glad to have this show back, even if it is only 8 episodes.

Great episode! Worth the long wait!

I saw this posted in a comment for another review of the episode, but here's a screencap of jacob

http://tinyurl.com/2z55lo

there's no way that isnt jack's dad.

i think it's obvious that the face that popped up in jacob's cabin was locke's. also, upon close review (frame by frame on dvr) you can see that the shadow in the rocking chair is wearing white sneakers and a suit, just like christian shepard (as can be seen in the last mobisode, "so it begins").. not to mention his shadowy face bares a striking resemblance to jack's dad.

SOME THOUGHTS ON YOUR BURNING QUESTIONS:
I can't say how Charlie manages both sides of the existential plane, but it sure makes for fun and mysterious watching!
Hurley seems to have taken up Lockes mantle of referring to the island as an entity.
Jack should keep up the 7 o'clock shadow thingy he's got goin' on.
I, too, believe 'THEY' are the un-rescued still living on the island.
I am as yet undecided as to poor Naomi's agenda or purpose.
Jacob's cabin is my absolute passion at this time. I am consumed by the mystery surrounding this particular island phenomenon, and intrigued by your suggestion that Christian Shepard is Jacob.
I would go with Jack. I don't trust Locke's judgment; he says "sorry" too often for me.
While Ben is my favorite character on the show, it WAS great to see Danielle bust him!

Catholics believe in saints (St. Therese of Lisieux, for example) visiting living people after they are dead and appearing, sometimes, totally mortal. There are numerous documented cases of this happening with numerous saints throughout history.

hugo told jack he shouldve gone with him instead of locke. cant wait to find out how he still gets off the island. taken against his will maybe? so glad its back, but still pissed we only get 7 more episodes........maybe forever.

I pretty much agree with your take on everything that happened and here are my answers to your questions.

How can Charlie be both dead and corporeal? I do not believe that it was Charlie that we saw there. Rather it was some kind of manifestation of the island but what's interesting to me about that is that whatever is behind the island, this mystical power, can interact with people when they're not on the island.

Why did Hurley refer to the island as an entity? Obviously something happens down the road that reveals to everyone the fact that the island is more than just a mass of land floating in the ocean. Jack knows this too which is why he is so desperate to return later down the road.

Should Jack grow a beard? I think we can all answer this one confidently...no.

Who is the mysterious "they" referred to be Charlie and Lance Reddick's character? This is another no-brainer to me. I think they're obviously referring to those left behind on the island. Its hard to believe that Jack would leave anyone behind so willingly. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Was Naomi actually on a rescue mission? No, we know that these people aren't here to rescue the losties.

Who was the person in Jacob's cabin? For some reason the spirit of the island likes to take on the figure of Christian, Jack's dad. It is not really him though.

Would you go with Jack or would you go with Locke? Well, certainly knowing what we all know I'd go with Locke but if I were in the Losties situation and wasn't certain, I'd go with Jack.

Wasn't it awesome when Danielle punched Ben in the face? Not really considering the fact that Ben is probably right about those on the freighter. For once he's not lying.

One of the arresting officers in LA sure looked like Nathan Fillion. He was only on camera for ~1 second.

I was wondering what your thoughts are on the "oceanic 6". We obviously know three of them: Jack, Kate, and Hurley. But what of the other three? Any clues to who they could be (one of them is probably the dude in the casket)

What are your thoughts people?

A. Christian Shepard is NOT Jacob. The voo-doo on that island (whether extra-human, or scientific, or some combination of the two) manifests itself in lots of different ways. There is no doubt that Hurly saw an image of what we know as Christian Shepard sitting in that rocking chair tonight, but that doesn't mean he is Jacob.

I mean seriously, how much more of an obvious red herring can that be? The identity/entity of Jacob is one of the biggest mysteries of the show. Does anyone really think they would give that big of a reveal away in such a manner? No way. We've got a long way to go before finding out the real nature of Jacob.

B. I believe the mysterious "they" could be another big, fat, red herring. It's way too obvious. It could refer to the Others, Dharma, Naomi's people, Penny's people who are still looking for the island, the Time Lords or whatever you call the weird folks Desmond kept running into, the 4-toed people who built the giant stone foot, or some group we haven't even seen yet.

We don't have any idea what the "endgame" of the Oceanic 6 was/will be. Maybe we're supposed to think "they" refers to the rest of our castaways, but I bet it could be setting up something entirely different down the line. The "mysterious man" could be anybody, or anything.

There's also the possibility that the mysterious man and Charlie were refering to completely different groups of "they"s...

C. I'm bettin' that the Oceanic 6 did something to get off that island that they're not very proud of, and it could be something nasty. Looking forward to this.

its possible that jacob has, at least physically taken on the identity of christian shepard, but i dont think that its really christian. and the person who popped up in the cabin was definitely Locke. also, did anyone notice that when Hurley saw Jacob's cabin, he wished it away in the same way he wished Charlie away??? i wonder if this means something about Hurley that we didnt know before?

Hey beck, good point about Hurley. Did you notice that when he began his wishing "countdown" with Charlie/The Island's Manifestation of Charlie... by the time he got to "3", Charlie was leaning in and raising his voice. Almost as if he knew that when Hurley got to "5", he's go POOF! and disappear. So maybe Hurley has some control over the Island's mojo. Hmmm...

The Oceanic 6 is who is not on Jacob's list.

Reminds me of "Man of Science, Man of Faith"--the season 2 premiere. The same mix of dread, horror, and mind-boggling revelations (cynics would call them narrative inconsistencies, but I agree with the L.A. Times' review that Lost is the perfect post-modern show, one that trades coherence for dramatic range and experimentation). Just one question, though:

WHY DIDN'T DESMOND JOIN LOCKE A.K.A. "BOXMAN"? Desmond was the first one to relay Charlie's message, and I see no reason to think that Desmond shouldn't believe him.

I'm thoroughly excited for next episode when we'll meet the newcomers. (I hear Jeremy Davies is a physicist named Faraday--like THE Faraday of Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction).

OK, this episode did not WOW me. With three minutes left I was waiting for a jaw dropper and all I got was another parachuter? Eh? It felt like a 'to be continued' Facts of Life episode and not the 'OMG I've just been shatted on' feeling that the last 6 episodes of season 3 gave me. Honestly, this episode could have existed without the Hurley-centric-ness. The greatness of second-half season 3 wasn't just that the plot moved like a magnetic train, but that each episode was a complete story in itself. Tonight's was just a picking up where the finale left off. It had no identity. It wasn't 'The Brig' or 'Greatest Hits' it was just Season 3 finale Part III. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Lost with a passion, and probably why I'm being so critical, but for all the hype tonight left me wanting more. Well, I guess there's always next Thursday...

1) Something EVERYBODY seems to have missed here. Hurley may have some untapped power. Starting with the lottery, to his friend (imaginary? but was also corporeal) in the mental ward with him who also appeared on the island, onto the the fact the he actually saw Jacob. Remember, originally only Ben could see/hear Jacob. When Ben first took Locke to see Jacob, he was relieved initially that Locke couldn't see him saying something to the effect of his mind wasn't powerful enough. Once Lock heard /saw Jacob, Ben tried to kill him. So being that Hurley saw Jacob also, he either has some power or has a strong connection with the island or both manifesting in a corporeal dead Charlie. The real question is how the the other guy in the mental ward see Charlie???

2) Hurley may not ave been referring to the island when he said "it", he was probably talking about Jacob.

3) As long as the beards not fake...lol

4) "They" are the people still on the island.

5) At first I thought definitely not because she ran, but then I realized she had no idea who tried to kill her so I would've run away to. Although they lied about who they were, we still don't know for certain that they are not there for rescue as everyone assumes. I however believe that they are the original Dharma and have been searching for the island since Ben killed all the Dharma employees and now they plan to kill Ben's others for revenge and to take back the island.

6) I didn't even think it was a question as who's face popped up in the window in Jacob's cabin, it was Locke.

7) Locke.

8)NO, kill his ass already. Funny how Jack tried to kill Locke, but after all Ben has done to him, killing him hasn't crossed his mind.

Why does Rose not trust Locke at all? When asked which group to choose, she stated of Locke, "I'm not going anywhere with HIM." Didn't they have touching little conversations in the past? Did I miss something?

Good episode, nothing earth shaking but I liked it. Did anyone else notice that Naomi was doing alright (able to get away without being seen/attack Kate) but the second she called the outside world she died? And does the fact that they had to keep resetting the signal for the sat phone mean anything as well? Hmmmm interesting.

Spoiler Alert!!!
For those that want to know the Oceanic 6 are....(drum roll please)

Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sayid
Sun
Jin

Note: For all of you who think that Kate was refering to Sawyer last season when she told Jack she had to get back or "he" will wonder where she is. As far as I know Sawyer does not get off the island. Another thing I was thinking is that if you tell an adult where you are going to be they understand but a child may not. The "he" is her son. Sawyers son. This just conjecture on my part but I got it as a lock (pun intended).

enjoy.

Was discussing this on another thread earlier but I am starting to think that the Rescue Boat is the Dharma folks coming back for their island. For so long most of us have written them off as a bunch of extinct hippie scientists but it's beginning to sound more to me like they might have been the bad guys all along and the hatch blowing up was the clue they needed to find the island again. only problem is what does penny have to do with it?

Okay, a couple notes...

1: Jacob's cabin is way the hell away from the beach... I mean, how lost could Hugo possibly get in five seconds?

2: Hugo had his torch, but noticed no grey ash line upon encountering Jacob's cabin.

3: The numbers were first heard (on the show, not in the ARG) by buddy that was with Hugo in the asylum and his partner who died (whose wife Hugo goes to Australia to see in the first place) while they were out on a fishing boat in the pacific. This was the message that Danielle turned off to record her own. We still don't know who recorded this message or why. I originally thought that it was Straczinsky, but now I'm thinking... Jacob? We know that Jacob hates technology. Why? Maybe because of the "incident" somehow damaging the properties of the island. But maybe the message was recorded before that. Maybe Jacob sent it out to find someone like Hugo, a reciever of some sort. Maybe the bad luck is supposed to bring you to the island. Maybe you go crazy if you don't come. I'm thinking maybe Locke isn't the only one with a destiny and connection to the island. Maybe it was Locke in Jacob's window, but I didn't recognize it to be. I've watched it a few times and I don't see it. If the eye was Jacob then maybe that means that he's required in the scenario that helps the others achieve their goals. That's what it seems to be about... What with Desmond's visions and what the elderly "time lord" or whatever said, everything has to fit.

4: Also, I've heard a lot of people complain about Locke's killing of Naomi to be going against three seasons of character development, but I think you forget... Locke pushed the Russian into the sonic fence, presumably to kill him, just a few days ago. I think John has some info that we don't know yet. And if you think about it, the progression of his story has really only told us that he is incapable of killing those he loves.

Just some thoughts. God, I can't believe that we waited this long for this few episodes. I mean, I respect the ideals behind the strike 100%. I'm a writer, but the way things are going... grr, goddamit. They shouldn't have let the late night talk show hosts back on the air without writers. Strikes are about disruption and this one started several months before the real disruptions would begin. The one thing I do know is that we need to start writing letters the second LOST goes off. Probably before, actually...

Oh yeah, duh, I forgot what I was trying to say. How about this... Locke was in the pit, Walt appears, tells him he has "work to do" (also what Christian says to Vincent about Jack in the last MOB), Locke smiles and then... Who knows? Until he throws that knife at Naomi and after that until we see him appear before Hugo we have no idea what he's been doing. We've all assumed that "work to do" meant killing Naomi, but that makes no sense with no context for Locke's actions. What if, and this is pure speculation mind you, what if the work that Locke had to do was to "Help" Jacob (like Jacob asked him to) and clear out the circle of ash that was keeping jacob and his cabin from remote viewing and traveling around the island. Or maybe he was remote viewing through the monster anyway and now he can just move freely... Otherwise there is no explanation for why the cabin itself can move now. Dunno, my head is still swirling. It's gonna be like a stab to the heart when this shit goes off into the vortex of the strike. Argh, why couldn't we have just gotten a full season. We waited and waited and not even for a full season... Also, isn't it funny that the prime co-creator/writer of our favorite show just happens to be one of the major negotiators involved. Let's hope he's as good at that as he is at this...

HAI, i have seen EVERY episode of season 4.
The man in the casket is jack. the other jack is a clone created by jacob who is secretly a steam engine.
in the very frist episode, we see lots of naked girls kissing eachother.
Charly doesnt die, Mr Echo uses an "undrowning machine" on charly to bring him back. oh and echo isnt dead.
it was a joke.
neither is boone
or shanahan
or the man who blew himself up with dynamighty
or the people who got paralysed thatw as also a joke.
locke falls in love with a polar bear and stays on the island to spend the rest of his life with it. we then see them making hot sexy love and Mrs P O Larbear is expecting twins.
Luckily, polar bears are immune to death by pregnanacy complications.
i once kissed a boy.
Walt becomes a professional sky diver having aged 18 years upon leaving the island and joins desmon in a cival partnership. which micheal doesnt approve of.
Julliette and ben BOTH have cocks and start a new martial art called cock foo fighting which jacob is bad at....
Suns 13 babais have no problems...and they are all girls... who were ugly...
the island sinks... and you wake up after having a horrible horific horrendous holiday night mare.
cant wait for season 5 :)
your sincerely
Elizabeth Windsor

Nothing bothers me more than spoilers on a message board. Alert or no alert. Clearly, people that are posting messages here could've easily found out who the Oceanic Six are. But thanks for the "inside" info.

The expectations were surreal for this episode and therefore it may get some criticism. However, from a broader standpoint, this was a fantastic episode. It's primary purpose was to lay the groundwork for the rest of the series. It did so and entertained me at the same time. And I'm not even a fan of Hurley.

Next week will probably be more of the same in terms of laying down the groundwork. I'm excited nonetheless!

part of me doesn't even care if we get all the answers, "lost" is pretty much the most fun i've ever had with my t.v. in fact, i hope they don't meticulously tie up every last loose string, since so much of the adventure is, in my opinion, absorbing all the craziness and interpreting it for yourself. i do want to find out about that four-toed statue though.

i think libby had a brief cameo in the flash forward. I could just be grasping at straws but when charlie comes in the close up shots of charlie when he is sitting you see a girl with a plat thingy in her hair at the table behind him. When charlie gets up she is not there. My theory is that the girl is libby or a manifestation of libby. I might just be taking a shot in the dark but its wierd how the girl was there in one scene then seconds after she was gone. and i thought this was a fantastic episode. really exciting

P.S. Did anyone notice that Hurley was drawing an igloo, which could be some connection to the arctic station we saw at the end of season 2.

Lance Reddick's characters name in Matthew Abbadon.

Abbadon: in demonology, was chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy. He was called The Destroyer and, in the Book of Revelation, St John called him the King of the locusts (Rev 9: 7-11).

The biggest question I had about last night's episode was only asked by 1 man so far...SKEEZ I feels ya man.

HOW DID THE OTHER CRAZY DUDE SEE CHARLIE?

It's makin me nuts

1. Hasn't Boone come back for Locke once? Sure the crazy guy saw him, but that doesn't mean it's not the same thing.

Hugo sees Charlie as a reminder that he reneged on his decision to stay with Locke. Hugo makes an impassioned speech in favor of staying on the island, and then somewhere down the line, he left. Why?

I agree with G Money - it is odd that another guy saw Charlie. Back in season 2, did anyone else see Dave? I don't think so. Very odd.

Why did Hugo lie to the police officer about not knowing Ana Lucia? Clearly something has happened that Hugo and Jack do not want to talk about, & I think it involves more than just something bad they may have done to get off the island. I wonder if they are protecting the remaining folks.

How can Charlie be both dead and corporeal?
Given Hurley's history of seeing things that aren't there I don't think Charlie is corporeal. As much as I hate to say it I think Charlie is just dead.
Why did Hurley refer to the island as an entity?
Maybe he wasn't referring to the island itself. Maybe he was referring to the force that keeps people there.
Should Jack grow a beard?
He does grow a beard so it doesn't matter if we think he should or not.
Who is the mysterious "they" referred to be Charlie and Lance Reddick's character?
I think not everyone left the island. I don't think Oceanic is trying to cover up anything. I think something happened and only 6 of the people left.
Was Naomi actually on a rescue mission?
No, I think her telling her crew mates to wish her sister well was code. Much more subtle than "The situation is all F'd up. Come kill these crazies!"
Who was the person in Jacob's cabin?
I have to agree that it does look like Christian and I believe the face in the window was Locke's.
Would you go with Jack or would you go with Locke?
I'd go where ever Kate goes. Seriously I think I would go with Locke. I mean Charlie's last communication wasn't tell Claire I love her or anything like that. It was a warning. Since dieing declarations are powerful enough to be exceptions to the hearsay rule I tend to believe them.
Wasn't it awesome when Danielle punched Ben in the face?
Of course.

Regarding the remaining 'Oceanic 6', if we can assume that Desmond's flash will follow through to completion, then Claire will be rescued. Or at least "taken off the island in a helicopter".

And since the steps in his flash happened exactly as he saw them, the outcome should remain the same, unlike when he saved Charlie from the arrow to the throat, and the outcome of his flash changed from Penny to Naomi.

Any thoughts?

Hurley said "He wants us to come back," not "it." I think that he's talking about Jacob or possible whatever "god" the others are on their way to see in "the temple."

This may be old news, but I noticed it for the first time last night. Why was a city reflected in the water on all the Lost promos? Did anyone else notice that or was it my imagination?

I've noticed the water/city for some time. Really don't know what it means

I think Hurley was just seeing things when he saw Charlie. That means he knows that 'they' need him but is still in denial about it.

Also, if Desmond's flash is fulfilled and Claire and Aaron get rescued that leaves only one spot left in the 'Oceanic 6'. Uh oh. But do we know for sure that he saw Claire and Aaron getting rescued (or getting on a helicopter)? He could've just said that to Charlie to motivate him to go through with it since he knows that Charlie cares so much for Claire and Aaron.

I am sooo glad lost is back !

If that was Christian Sheppard in the cabin, than is he one of the Oceanic Six ? In the first flash forward when Jack is in the hospital and drug store he mentions his father in the present tense. Which leaves you to believe the his father is alive and in corporeal form.

Naomi's last words, "Tell my sister I love her".......A Signal, perhaps?

It seemed to me the "tell my sister i love her" bit was due to her being blackmailed via her sister to goto the island, this is consistant with other storylines at least
The 6 get off in a chopper that siayd(sp) flys as thats the limit of what a light chopper can carry, then something happens and they can't go back for the rest
given the amount of murder and mayhem that has taken place already it's no supprise they won't tell the authorities anything

Jack DID grow a beard. This flashforward took place before Jack's breakdown.
Kinda thought that was obvious.

Thoughts on a possible conclusion:

Right now Jack's only focus is getting off the island. In the future his only focus is getting back to it. The 6 were forced to say everyone on the island is dead ("I'm sick of lying" to Kate). He now is obsessed with 'fixing' his mistake in leaving the survivors behind. Fixing in his previous life destroyed his life (his wife, his dad). Fixing this in the future will save his life.

However, this will be his ultimate sacrifice, and he will die on the island, possibly in the caves with a woman (as per the adam and eve theory). In that final episode, what will look like a flashback to previous island events after the crash, will actually be a flashforward in which Jack discovers his own body in the caves.

This theory keeps with motifs... Duality, Jack's obsession with fixing things, and the lost time element. As for everything else like Jacob, smokey, and everything else, it's just the backdrop in which to tell Jack's ultimate redemption story, and isn't the focus

How can Charlie be both dead and corporeal?
Maybe he went the way of MsHawkings or Bro Campbell and is no longer enslaved by time and space.

Why did Hurley refer to the island as an entity?
I dont think its just an island but an entety a living creature that moves and lives, those sailing off the island arent going in ciircles the island moves so they are returned to the island. Much like Hurley saw the cabin turned around and there it was again, it moved to force him to come back.
Should Jack grow a beard? moot point we know he will
Who is the mysterious "they" referred to be Charlie and Lance Reddick's character?
not enough info to know for sure but I would guess the orginal inhibantants of the island
Was Naomi actually on a rescue mission?
No but I think she was not objected to getting them off the island.
Who was the person in Jacob's cabin?
Jacob, and maybe Locke or Smokie in a non smokie form
Would you go with Jack or would you go with Locke? at this time locke
Wasn't it awesome when Danielle punched Ben in the face? um didnt look that hard

Naomi is not one of the good guys. She tricked Kate with her dieing words. And that bit when she said "tell my sister I love her" sounds like some kind of code phrase.

As in, "Okay Naomi, if you get compromised, and can't speak freely, say 'tell my sister I love her' and we'll know to initiate Operation X."

Military, business, police, and other industries with a risk of getting captured/kidnapped set up pre-arranged code phrases like this. Naomi's group seems pretty sophisticated (she knew counter-tracking, ambush, could handle a knife, etc.) so it makes sense they'd set something up.

Re the url posted by Omri showing the picture of Jacob, it looks way more like Jack with white hair, not Christian.

Did people already forget the season finale from season 3?

When Jack met Kate on the bridge, he had a beard!!! Was that flash forward months after this episode?

I thought is was strange, and nobody else has mentioned this, but someone parachutting out of a helicopter is not very likly, is it? Is this a clue or a movie mistake?

Michael is coming back to the show. Does anyone think that he is the one that is bring the "rescue"

Some thoughts, having seen last night's episode 4x01 a second time:

1. It's been said many times by now, but Christian Shephard is obviously Jacob (I'd recognize those tennis shoes anywhere). But has he always been Jacob, or is Jacob just manifesting himself as Christian? Could Jacob also manifest himself as Yeni, or as Hurley's imaginary friend Dave, or as Kate's horse? Point is, it might not really be Christian. It might just look like him.

2. At the mental hospital, Hurley makes Charlie disappear by covering his ears and shouting that Charlie isn't real. You might think he's just knocking sense into himself ... but watch the episode again and you'll find that this is actually the *second* time in the episode Hurley performs this routine. When he confronts Jacob's shack in the jungle, runs away from it and finds it again, he closes his eyes and shouts that there's nothing there. Suddenly the shack is gone, like Charlie. I think the parallel between these two similar events in one episode was deliberate, and suggests that the people and things the island manifests can be banished by will.

3. The "Oceanic Six" is probably at least *seven* in number, because Kate doesn't count. People have been wondering how she could have left the island and not face her crimes, but I suspect she used an alias and came back to LA in secret, hiding from her old identity. Since the public knows the survivors as the Oceanic Six, count on there being at least seven people from the 815 crash that get off he island, and possibly some non-crash people like Desmond. There could be at least four others.

4. I'm surprised now that Jack went to Kate in the Season 3 finale. You'd think he'd have gone to Hurley for help in getting back to the island, since by that time he agrees with Hurley. Could Hurley be dead? I doubt he was in the coffin

5. I'm also surprised Rose didn't go with Locke, since she knows his health secret, and has one of her own. She should be trying to stay on the island.

having watched the episode promos for the next episode "Confirmed Dead" (note this isn't spoilers just the trailers that run after the show has aired, you know the coming next on lost bit..)
anyway i'm getting lost here :P, the point is having seen these trailers, i know now that 2 more helicopter guys drop in, it seems pretty obvious it's the Dharma recovery scenario, it's not penny's ship and it's not a rescue as the guy says in the trailer "your not our top priority"
there's a long way to go from there till jack and co are leaving which will no doubt be the last episode (if it even happens this 1/2 season - no point in assuming that it does), also somehow jacks group and lockes group get back together or at least hurley does also somehow they get transport (most likely a helicopter)
see here for the trailers spoilerslost.blogspot.com and don't watch the The View with Whoopy Goldberg as it's a major spoiler

I think one of the most interesting facts of last night's episode that seems to be overlooked is the fact that Jack would've put a bullet in Locke's head right then and there. Jack is beginning to turn a dark, dark corner in this series as evidenced by the flash forwards, particularly when he visits Hurley concerned over whether he's going to "tell" on them.

The Oceanic Six...shouldn't Claire and Aaron be on that list? Desmond saw them getting into a helicopter in his vision, that is why Charlie was willing to die, because he knew it was going to get Claire rescued...UNLESS they were left behind and THAT is why charlie is appealing to hurley to make things right?

FUCK YOU DESMOND!

was anyone else completely confused about Desmond not joining Locke's team (I know they have beef over the hatch stuff) but I mean Desmond was the only one who saw Charlie decide to warn everyone instead of escaping the porthole with a message only Desmond could understand - NOT PENNY'S BOAT. Then, when he makes it to the shore he tells Sayid, Juliet, Sawyer, yadda yadda yadda that they have to warn everyone because they aren't who they say they are. Hurley only made that speech because of the information Desmond gave him, but then he doesn't go with the side that is with his whole entire point. Fuck you Desmond.

Also, sorry for swearing if I am not supposed to do that on this site.

I also noitced int eh flash-forward from the finale last year. The Dr asked jack if he was drunk. Jack replied," Go see my father and see if he is drunker than I am." If that was a flash-forward, wht the hell is Jack talking about?

Another thing...Locke was shot!! What happened there? When Jack laid him out, I didn't see any blood on his shirt and he popped back up? (granted he may have changed, but a bullet wound is a bullet wound).

Regarding Charlie Pace's existential conundrum, if you put his middle name 'Hieronymus' into Google, you'll see this link: http://www.lifetechnology.org/hieronymus.htm...

Now for the record, I put no faith or stock in this 'technology' which is clearly (?) the product of science fiction - I bring it to your attention simply as a possible source of inspiration for the creators/writers of 'Lost' in terms of explaining how some characters are able to achieve their ends - especially when you consider the wording of the text (a 'black box' into which you put a representation of something you wish to manifest either locally or over great distance utilising a form of energy yet to be proven by scientific means- 'eloptic energy' - a combination of electromagnetism and optics, the theory of which is supposedly based on quantum physics)

Total gibberish, obviously, but my point is that this could be something that inspired the writers.

Also out of left field, (and with regard to sarah's post, 31st Jan 9.20PM) Hieronymus is the greek name for Saint Jerome.....Saints typically get elevated to sainthood through sacrificing themselves in the course of doing 'God's work'...

Hee Hee :) 'Saint Charlie'....i kinda like it.......DO check out the link though if you have a spare minute, it makes interesting reading for anyone truly fascinated by 'Lost's mysteries..

By the way....YES the link i posted is a product listing, and NO I don't think it's a good use of $600!

maybe this is way out there but... wasn't libby's husband's name dave(id)? i know charlie most likely is representing hurley's conscience or the islands power, but could hurley see dead people?
if dave was libby's husband, it would explain libby's appearance at the mental institution in season 2. Hurley definitely exhibits a certain power... perhaps the numbers permanently tie hurley to the island in some way. He also did see jacob... jacob could be more powerful but a lot of others couldn't seem to see him before... apparently... unless ben never shared... which is possible.

Charlie is both alive and dead -- a time loop could allow for that. I also are answers to be found in the driveshaft lyric "You are everybody."

Hurley was referring to the power that led him to pick the lottery numbers, which is the same power that drew other travellers to flight 815 and which animates so much of the happenstance on the island.

Jack looked fine in a beard. By the time they go back to the island his beard should be a championship beard -- longer and finely waxed, in my opinion.

I agree that "they" could be any mix of 815ers, others, and freightliners, and that the rush to get off the island will lead to some interesting decision making on different characters' parts.

Naomi was not on a rescue mission -- if she was it would be hard to explain why she told 815ers they were supposed to be dead.

Jacob's cabin...really nothing to add on this question. Locke's eye but who else? The most interesting answer at this point is the person in the chair is an aged jack. but the voice saying "Help me" sounded unfamiliar.

I'd go with Jack if only to keep hidden when the "rescuers" arrive -- that way I could determine what their intentions are. I think this is why Desmond chose to go with Jack -- not necessarily to hide, but to see for himself what is true if he really wants to believe it may be Penny's rescue effort (do we know for certain he expects Penny to look for him?). Also -- Locke had a fully loade pistol when he came out of the mass grave -- then he fired one or two shots at the satelite radio...then there were no bullets when Jack pulled the trigger at him...What did Locke do with the other bullets?

Not so great when Ben got punched...kind of slapstick if you ask me.

As for Locke killing Naomi...He may have thought she would not really die (given his various perspectives on recovery and recuperation island style).

Overall I agree with those who think this episode was a let down -- no real movement of the story beyond the last season's finale. Given the season is likely to be truncated, I think they could have given a double length opener, then go to every other week airings to stretch it out several months and hopefully leave them in position to resume production of this season's episodes when/if the strike ends soon.

Just a thought here about the "oceanic 6"

Could Michael and Walt be included in those six? I mean techinacaly they did survive the crash and go back to the "real" world (or did they?). I don't think michael would come back to the island (as we know he will) without having a guarantee of getting off again.

So.. that makes the oceanic 6: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Walt, Michael, and the guy in the casket.

Right?

Also -- Would somebody please explain why Charlie chose to lock down the communications room and die? No way did he have to -- If he hadn't locked himself in the communications room he and Desmond could both have swam out the way they came in.

Also, why did cyclops decide to die, much less to destroy the station? If he was following orders he would have killed Charlie and Desmond, but left the station intact. If he was turning on Ben, why kill anybody, much less destroy the station? Also, cyclops has shown some recuperative powers of his own -- might we see him again?

Okay, so I have looked at Jacob's cabin several times through the wonder of my DVR and the eye we see looks brown to me. Doesn't Locke have blue eyes? It makes sense for Locke to be there, but the eye color is not right.

hey, i'm just be drawing a blank on old episodes but what ever happened to Vincent? is the dog still around?

I think it's funny that people on here ask questions and then when you actually answer a question they get upset and say that spoilers should not be on the forum.

Anyway I was answring Mr. Bombastic's question as to who the Oceanic 6 are. The best info has it as the six I mentioned but it's not set in stone until you see it on screen. Plus it could be disnformation, who knows?

Mr. Bombastic you could be correct about Michael and Walt as part of the Oceanic 6. The person in the castket could be any of the five you mentioned or a person yet to be introduced. So if you are correct there is one spot left. Who would you imagine it is?

I do not think Michael would risk bringing Walt back to the island. I'm sure that is was Jacob or the smoke monster (disguised as Walt) that helped Locke out of the skeleton pit.

Maybe Jacob's cry of "help me" was a warning to Locke that Ben was going to shoot him and he would find himself in the pit saying "help me".

As for Desmond seeing Clarie and Aaron getting off the island and them not being part of the Oceanic 6. All Desmond said was that a helicopter came and they got off the island, he did not say when. Both things can be true. Aaron and Clarie can get off the island, at a later time my guess is season 6, and not be part of the Oceanic 6.

I agree that Naomi's dyin words were a coded message.

My gut tells me that season 4 (well the original season 4, the next 15 episodes) is all about how they got off the island and will focus on the Oceanic six plus the development of the new characters on the boat. Season 5 will be all about how they find the island again and season 6 will resolve the story.

Jacob does appear to be Jack's father. Two possbilities here and one I think people might have missed.

A) Some way it actually is Jack's father or
B) Jacob appearing as Jack's father

Either way this could be for Jack's benifit but it could also be for Clarie's. What if what Jacob wants is Aaron? The other's did seem to have a thing for kids and if Jacob exists then Ben was taking orders from him. Also if the face was Locke's then what were Locke and Jacob talking about before Hurley showed up?

I agree that some or all 6 of the people who got off the island did something very shady that they feel bad about. They may have had a choice of save yourself or let someone else go and they (Jack, Hugo) feel guilty. Who knows? Great that the show is back....let the wild theories fly...hahaha.

Lol well obviously Jack or Kate can't be in the casket.... my goof there. Typing too fast lol.

Charlie stayed in becasue that was Desmond's vision and the end game would be Claire and Aaron being rescued. Had he not, he would not have seen Penny's warning and they might well have all been killed by Ep 3 of Season 4. with the warning they have a fighting chance and Claire and Aaron will be rescued, though it may be Ep 16 of Season 6--who knows.

Reconron... some good points on the oceanic 6 issue.

I forgot the part about Claire and Aaron getting on the helicopter. I think, as you said, it would be too careless to presume that just because Des saw them get on a helicopter that they might be part of the Oceanic 6.

But.. for the sake of the fun of speculation, lets say Claire is part of the oceanic 6 (Aaron is a baby so he might not be included)

Here is my theory now

Oceanic 6 are: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Michael, Walt, and Claire.

Guy in the casket is Michael.

Jack is in despair when he finds out Michael dies because he knew Michael knew the way back to the Island (Spoiler Alert! We saw some pics of Michael coming back to the island this season)

What do you think?

Here are my thoughts on the epidsode.

How can Charlie be both dead and corporeal?
Some have hinted about this, but it isn't Charlie we are seeing but Jacob. I hold the position currently that all of the "visions" of people that are coporal such as Walt, are actually different forms that Jacob takes to communicate with people. Jacob learned early on that people don't like Smokey too much and so he has decided to use other methods to get the losties to do his bidding.

Why did Hurley refer to the island as an entity?
At this point I would say the Island is Jacob. However, the Island could also have some other kind of will that Jacob is also following.

Should Jack grow a beard? Well he does doesn't he? Shortly before he decides he needs to get back to the Island.

Who is the mysterious "they" referred to be Charlie and Lance Reddick's character?
I agree with everyone else, "they" are the Oceanic 6. Not quite as good as Ocean's 11, but close...

Was Naomi actually on a rescue mission?
No, I believe their mission is to seek out new life and new civilizations and to boldy go where no one has gone before.

Who was the person in Jacob's cabin?
Jacob. As discussed in question one, Jacob can assume the form of anyone/thing he wants to. He can also teleport his cabin around too. (OR just project things into people's brains)

Would you go with Jack or would you go with Locke?
I initially thought I would go with Jack, but given the weight of all this new shit, definitely would go with Locke. See just how deep the rabit hole goes if you know what I mean.

Wasn't it awesome when Danielle punched Ben in the face? I'm starting to like Ben, sure he doesn't tell us anything, but he still seems to know what is going on.

Prediction/Spoiler:
At this point, I'm thinking that the future losties are going to each one have the circumstances line up to bring them back to the island. Somehow, the interactions they have in the future will also influence the past bringing out some kind of new outcome then the flash forwards, maybe even destroying the island and preventing the plane from even crashing in the first place.

Am living in Ireland, wont see episode till tomorrow night, Im so so excited.
Ta for the insight.

Mr. Bombastic... I having been giving this a lot of thought and I think it maybe a hidden in plain sight kind of deal. I think the Oceanic 6 maybe be a mental trap created by JJ and crew to throw us off the sent so to speak. What I mean is yes there are six who get off the island but that does not mean they are the only six who get off the island. The Oceanic 6 are just the people the media knows about.

If I was Michael and I had killed two people and was unsure of what people thought of my do anything additude, especially Hurley since Michael killed is only love intrest, I would be very unwilling to get caught in the limelight of being a survivor celebrity.

I do not think Michael or Walt are part of the Oceanic 6. Another thing that I will say is we know Michael goes back to the island but we do not know if he ever gets back off again. Maybe Jack has his vengence on him and he never gets back off the island. This would be a good reason for Jack to be concerned Hurley might tell. Maybe Jack kills Michael for Hurley because Hurley can not do it, ala Locke and Sawyer.

Who is the casket? Hmmmm that's a great question. There are sites you can go to that have the obit Jack is holding in last seasons finale blown up and the color set to monotone to get a better read of who it MIGHT be that died. The news paper says it is a man and that he was from New York. There is part of a name but it does not match with any of the Losties we know. So it A) a character we have yet to meet or B) someone we know who needs/wants to stay anonymous and changed their name to avoid attention.

Armed with this new information I thought the person in the casket was Michael but now I am less sure. As with everything in LOST the more info you get the more questions you have. Michael is not a clean fit for the casket.

Evidence for Michael in the casket:
The person in the casket is male
The person in the casket is from New York
When Jack tells Kate he wanted to know if she wanted to go the the funeral she shows disgust with the person (of course she could feel this way about anyone).

Evidence against Michael in the casket:
The funeral home director asks Jack if he is friend or family
If it is Michael, where is Walt? His ex-wife?
If he went to the trouble to change his name why not change where he was from?

I will say that if Michael knew how to get back to the island why was Jack on the airplane hoping for a crash? Seems he would just talk to Michael about going back. My guess is it is a yet to be introduced character and again we are dealing with the mental trap of thinking that the person in the casket has to be someone we know.

Another thing I noticed after watching S4EP1 again. Hurley was able to make Charlie disappear the same way as Jacob's house. I think that gives a clue as to what is really gone on with charlie.

I will say that with only 16 episodes a season you can already feel that the show is a lot tighter in content. This is going to be a fun ride to the finale. I would not be surprised if season 6 ends with a monumental cliffhanger that is resolved in a movie. What a mind scrambler that would be. You never know, maybe Jacob is the Cloverfield monster. Lol.

reconron... I think I see what you mean about JJ trying to mess with our minds. It is kinda too obvious right? And the fact that we were able to reach some conclusions shows that those conclusions are wrong.. you know what I mean? When was the last time we made a conclusion that came even close to what really happened on Lost.

So yeah, as you said the Oceanic 6 doesn't necessarily mean that only six got off the island. That would totaly fit the Lost pattern (JJ's pattern to be exact).

I like your arguments about Michael being in the Casket. And I think now I take back what I said about Michael being the guy in the Casket. It really is way to obvious. And as you said, Michael has family and all so they would probably show up at his funeral.

I think we're gettin way ahead of ourselves here. After all, a lot of stuff will happen before they leave the island.

I don't like to speculate on the Jacob issue, but its obvious that the writers wanted us to make that connection between the way Hurley makes the cabin and Charlie disappear. It most likely means that Hurley too has a special connection with the island (or good ol' Jake).

Btw, I like how they started the show with a Hurley flash-forward. It clearly shows the writer's intent to make him a bigger part of the show both on and off the island. And I really hope they give us more insight on the numbers issue. I think thats why Hurley is connected to this place.

Man, I love this show.

1) How did Locke find out about Charlie? He appeared above Hurley knowing but how?
2) People around Hurley acknowledged Matthew A. as well as Charlie, so is it safe to say that those people existed?
3) Why did Hurley see Jack's dad- he didn't know who Jack's dad was!

check it out, my theories...

1 - the 6 get off the island i.e, rescued but never mention the island (not sure why?), they are only known as the 6 survivors from the flight, they tell everyone that the rest died in the crash

2 - the part they are hiding is the existence of the island and the remaining survivors (if there are any left)

3 - guy in casket is michael. he's not a friend (betrayed the group) or family. plus i hate to make an assumption but it was an the funeral parlor and most of the neighborhood looked to be primarily African-American.

4 - what's interesting about the flash forwards is this

hurley wants to go back but at this time jack doesn't
then jack wants to back but kate doesn't

5 - Jack in last seasons finale and in this one talks about his dad as if he were alive, did anyone catch that, please verify but he makes several references to his father in the present tense never in the past as if he were dead.

i think it's obvious that charlie is hurley's new 'dave,' only a good influence in this case, caused by guilt, combined with his inclination to see things that aren't real, and also his way of telling himself what he doesnt want to hear, what he has to do and doesn't want to face. it does seem parallel to his experience with jacob's cabin, but i think it's a different sort of thing. anyone who is an obsessive fan of carnivale can tell you that the whole jacob thing is very similar to the story of 'management' on carnivale, a series that was cut short and was extremely interesting and well done. i'm sure the writers of lost are fans and it's their style to reference their influences through their own story. jacob being able move objects and make things happen and also make himself invisible are all things you can relate to carnivale and it's management character, although i'm sure the ultimate result of jacob's character will be different from that of carnivale's. but it explains how jacob can be real and make himself or his cabin disappear for hurley's benefit. also about the 6, i agree there may be others in reality, but the 6 are probably jack, kate, hurley, the kwons and claire. naomi's bad just like the rest of her crew, for sure. booyah.

Peak,

Re: #5, yes, it seems as though things are not as they seem with Jack's father being "dead."

On the season 3 finale, when he was being confronted by the other doctor about being drunk, he told him to "go upstairs and get my father--he'll be drunker than I am right now" (or words to that effect). Is his dad alive, or is Jack being delusional?

Take a look at the frame of "Jacob" from the season 4 first episode, and tell me it's not Christian Shepherd

What's going on?

i have just seen the first ep of series 4 on UK TV. just wanted to drop this in here i have no theories to back it up, but my first thought when i saw the eye in the cabin looking out at hurley was that it was Mikael aka guy who was killed by locke in the sonic fence, and also the guy who blew up the window to kill charlie. Ben discribed him as a true believer or something like that, maybe Jacob wants him alive.

I think it pretty much has to be John Terry in the chair in the cabin.

If it's not him, why would John Terry's name be in the credits for the episode. It putting his name in is a red herring, its a fairly malicious one IMO.

As for the eye, on first viewing I thought it was the same eye that we say in Man Behind The Curtain, but after rewinding and pausing my tape, I agree it looks a lot like Locke's eye. (and I dont think it was Locke's eye in Man Behind the Curatin).

a few comment i have not seen anywhere else...

1- Did no one see (Charlie's) hand just before Hurley's vision of the police interrogation window explode? handwritten (like "not penny's boat") was [b]"we need you"[/b]

2- the mysterious person in the cabin does not have same eye color as Locke

3- Kate looks over at Naomi's back/stab wound, and no blood besides a little stain on the shirt. did Naomi fein death to evade Kate? or as mentioned... code to her people (?)

Who said only 6 made if off the island? Maybe the "Oceanic Six" means there are only 6 alive who was rescued in Hurley's flash forward. The island is killing them off one by one.

Maybe, the flash forward with Jack going to the funeral home, this person (whoever it was) was the 3rd to last to be alive and this person died. Leaving only Jack and Kate.

The island even tried to get Jack to commit suicide.

Just a thought.

We know jack visiting hurley is in the future but before jack's beard. It's not will jack grow a beard - we already know that he does. It's already happened, just not yet. I belive Jacob/the island presents it self to different people different ways. But why would it present it self as Christian to Hurley? that's the real question.

I noticed it in the finale from last season, that there are 2 references to Jack's dad being alive. The script jack tries to get with his dad's name on it. and when Jack derails and tells the other doctor to find my dad. But this could be jack stealing his dad's old script pad & having a total mental break. who knows?

Also Desmond's vision we got to see all of them, except the last one involving Charlie. I think desmond lied about it. I think it was supposed to be desmond that died, but he convinced charlie that it was his destiny.

Also, how come no one has mentioned that Locke gets shot in the gut and is totally fine? we all know it healed the paralysis. but when the door shut on him, it took time for him to get better it wasn't instant. Was that because before his belief was faltering and now he is totally committed?

A few things...

Is it not odd that Ben didn't go crazy when Locke shows up and kills Naomi? I mean, he shot Locke in the stomach, pushed him in a pit to die and then Locke shows up with no problems at all. Figured that would have raised some eyebrows from Ben.

I think Ben is the guy in the coffin. I think he's the 'reason' the others came to the island, the rescue of Jack and the others is secondary. He's probably one of the ones taken off the island, they probably use him to try and decipher the island and where everyone else is and he sacrifices himself to take his secret to the grave. Then, Jack is the only one who shows up after he's dead b/c no one in the world knows who Ben is except for those on the island. That, and Ben's tumor will likely come back when he gets off the island.

As for Jacob's house, I think it's gotta be Christian Shepherd. That's who it looked like in last year's episode too in the rocking chair. I would think it's Locke in the window but there's a weird shadow around the head that makes it look like hair. It could just be the shadow, but either way, it's hard to tell.

I also agree with someone above that the Oceanic 6 somehow got off the island but swore to not tell anyone about the island or the others that they left on the island. A pact of sorts between Locke and Jack, the leaders of each faction. Ben gets dragged off the island and then Locke takes over as the leader of all those who stay. I also think if Rose/Bernard leaves or Sun/Jin stay, one of the women is going to die. Sun won't be able to have a baby on the island and Rose's cancer will come back.

HAI, i have seen EVERY episode of season 4.
The man in the casket is jack. the other jack is a clone created by jacob who is secretly a steam engine.
in the very frist episode, we see lots of naked girls kissing eachother.
Charly doesnt die, Mr Echo uses an "undrowning machine" on charly to bring him back. oh and echo isnt dead.
it was a joke.
neither is boone
or shanahan
or the man who blew himself up with dynamighty
or the people who got paralysed thatw as also a joke.
locke falls in love with a polar bear and stays on the island to spend the rest of his life with it. we then see them making hot sexy love and Mrs P O Larbear is expecting twins.
Luckily, polar bears are immune to death by pregnanacy complications.
i once kissed a boy.
Walt becomes a professional sky diver having aged 18 years upon leaving the island and joins desmon in a cival partnership. which micheal doesnt approve of.
Julliette and ben BOTH have cocks and start a new martial art called cock foo fighting which jacob is bad at....
Suns 13 babais have no problems...and they are all girls... who were ugly...
the island sinks... and you wake up after having a horrible horific horrendous holiday night mare.
cant wait for season 5 :)
your sincerely
Elizabeth Windsor

@Elizabeth Windsor:

you really took the time out to type that post? do you not have a life and or job? and i'm just as pathetic because im actually responding to your post. unbelievable.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but think for a moment about the "Oceanic" 6. Surely this suggests that out of the 6, none of them are any of the Others (ie: Juliet, Ben etc), and nor could it be Desmond, as the term "Oceanic" wouldn't apply to them. So either the only 6 people who left the island were 815ers, or ADDITIONAL islanders could have escaped also, more than the "Oceanic" 6, but are not grouped into that collective name.

Enjoy.

Can anyone tell me where to find the "The Orchid" video online?

the person in jacobs cabin was locke.

he was in there with jacob when hurley knocked peered through.

Ok has no one else noticed that when the mental patient tell's Hurley that someone is starring at him then they cut to Charlie there's a man mulling around the hospital yard to the left of the screen behind Charlie. That's who the mental patient was talking about. Also in the way back episode where Hurley sees his Bald imaginary friend from the psych ward he ask's are you real and the guy slaps him. Hurley feels it because its in his head. Same as Charlie.