u gonna tell us what it said? lol... seems kinda lame that Ben would write stupid stuff like that in his journal... i dun0o, just seems out of character for a man with his intelligence.

no offence dock......but this realy ISNT the equilavent of the blast door map...purely BECAUSE it doesnt contain as much interesting information

sorry

This may not be as exciting as the blast door map, but it sure it something. I'm glad to know what it says! And I'm amused that Ben referred to the Others as a "gypsy army." Ha!

Very interesting...

This is actually a welath of information about the situation with the others. It means that they were once not isolated and now they are. Is it possible Dharma never knew that the purge happened? They continued they supply drops not knowing that the others were in charge.

Entering 77 in the flame must have had greater ramifications than just blowing up the building.

'... long-awaited resupply of camp gear ...'

Is this a reference to a Dharma supply drop? Can the Others still be reliant on Dharma for supplies so long after the Purge? Is it plausible that they can have pulled the wool over Dharma's eyes for so long, (especially since we've been given reason to believe that more time has passed off the island than on it)?

Perhaps they were expecting to receive supplies from some of their other contacts in the outside world, but did not receive them due to the breakdown in communications after the sky turned purple.

Whether or not this is a reference to a Dharma drop, we know from season two that Dharma are still making drops on the island. Doesn't this fact preclude the possibility that the people on the freighter are Dharma? If they know where to make the drops, they cannot also have been 'looking for the island for a very long time' (or whatever it was that Ben said).

Note also Ben's use of the word 'exodus'. Such a lexical choice identifies him with Moses. Wasn't someone else referred to as such in this episode ...?

The resupply of camp gear that was missed must be that load of food the losties found last season.

Doc - Interesting insights into the Others' situation. Any luck gleaning any additional info from the portion of the facing page showing?

do you think that the missed re-supply was what landed around season 2 in the middle of the jungle. i mean the stuff the hurley and libby found. it would make sense i guess.

Is it water supply "bottles" have been cut off?

Yeah I think the enter 77 definitely caused them to permanently abandon camp, but what is at the temple that will afford them protection?

I guess I am one of the few people that didn´t like the ending. I mean, this is Lost so even a bad episode is interesting to watch, but still was a bummer.

The story did move forward, but with a gigantic gap between where we were and where we are now, another huge load of questions took place and another 9 months ahead of us with no answers.

IMHO this season ending was worse than last year´s, the so expected "game changer" was sort of a lame as I can´t care less about what happens when they left the island. That is exact the opposite of what I want to know. All I care is what happens on the island or about the island itself.

My hope is that what we saw was just another time travel/donnie darko kinda of time loop and it is not really what is going on.

Anyone have any ideas who (R) (M) and (T) could be?

My Thoughts:
- (R) Russo, Richard
- (M) ?
- (T) Tom?

R = Richard
M = Mikhail
T = Tom

I LOVE the Gypsy army comment in there. Oh, and I believe it was Naomi who called Jack Moses...

Could Ben have written the page with a code? Maybe every certain number of words or something along those lines.

I think it's J's agenda, not T's (as in, Jacob's), and a "protracted" or "prolonged" campaign.

Can I make an offtopic comment? (No!) Anyways. Didn't I read that there were supposedly 3 anagrams? One was the "flashforward" one. One was supposed to be in the Looking Glass. Where was the third, again?

Well, I have a guess -- what could be made from "Not Penny's Boat"? I was trying to think of notable writing, and that jumped to mind. Thoughts? Just a wild idea...

Wasn't this scene actually before he heard from the Looking Glass? If so, then this sounds like he can see the future as he is likely talking about his conversation with Richard and Mikhail and the not being able to prepare for the military strike on the beach. If it wasn't before he heard from the Looking Glass then sorry for wasting time.

What makes this journal interesting is not this particular page, but the existence of the journal itself, and what might be written on the previous pages.

How far back might it go?

Does it pre-date Ben?

Even if it doesn't pre-date Ben, how much interesting stuff might be in there about Dharma, pre- and post-purge?

And what might it mean in the hands of a lostie, or one of Ben's other opponents?

Hey Doc,
Like many LOST fans/freaks, I've already started watching LOST from the very begining on DVD. I plan on watching 1 disc a night until i'm through seasons one and two. Thus meaning that three hours of my life is available every day, how sad am I? :) Regardless, though I count myself as an observant viewer (especially when coupled with the things I read on this site posted by you and the other viewers), I've already seen a few things that are pretty interesting that I've never noticed before and that I have never seen listed on this site.
That being said, is there a good place for me to comment on these extremely old but (I believe) previously undiscussed items and/or see what other readers think as well?

I was just reading on Lostpedia and it said;

Dr. Hamill mentions that the woman from the car accident's surgery would be performed by a Dr. Gary Nadler. Nadler is Bernard's surname.

Coincidence or Easter egg??

It's just pictures of unicorns and puppies up until a few months ago, nothing to get excited about.

Seriousness aside, now that we know that the LG was purposely jamming the communications, did the hatch explosion have anything to do with it? The sky turning purple didn't break down the communications. It possibly alerted folks of the whereabouts of the island (such as Penny's crew), requiring the LG to be put into operation.

Evangelical

I am going to do the same thing. Watch 2 episodes a week until the fall. That should get us to the release of season 3 and then rewatch Season 3 an episode a week up to the Season 4 premier. I think it would be great to post info about those somewhere.

Key Point: From the Finale

John Locke: "Jack, your not supposed to do this."

I think this is one of the most important line's from the episode. It clues us in that even though Jack made the call and got everyone rescued, this will not be the case for long. Locke know's there is more work to be done on the island. And IMO the work that Walt spoke of to John was not limited to stopping Jack. I believe John was supposed to attempt stopping Jack, but HAD to let Jack make his own choice.

When Jack goes through with contacting rescue, Locke walks back into the jungle. I believe Locke is still on the island conducting whatever work Walt was speaking of. He is probably on his way to the Temple.

Doc,

I spent a lot of time by myself as a kid, so my visions not so good. But after the "gypsy army" reference, it appears that Ben gives a shout out to Horace. If I squint real hard it says "Horace, I have to say...". It also says something about "catheterizing a cat", which is weird.

It has taken me two and a half days, but I have actually read every word of every post made on the Tailsection since TTLG aired. Wow. Serious props to most of you. The frustrating (which I guess is a synonym for LOST-like) thing is that scores of theories work...to a point and then there's a deal-breaker.

Anyway, believe it or not, I do have an observation that I didn't see mentioned in the 600+ Tailsection posts since TTLG.

When Ben was warning Jack about the consequences of using the sat-phone he said, "If you make that call, every living person on this island will be killed."

We all know that Ben chooses his words very carefully. (Remember when he promised Jack that he would get him off the island knowing that Jack didn't realize that the Hydra was on a second island?) And he had the entire trek across the island to think about what he was going to say to Jack.

"Every living person on this island will be killed." Why is the word "living" in that sentence? Is this a hint that there are person's on the island who are not "living"? Richard? Jacob? All the original hostiles?

(And NO...I don't think it's a clue that we're gonna get the Zombie Season after all.)

I neglected to include "the whispers" in my listing of potentially "not-living" entities on the island. Which leads me to my next comment/question.

The question I pose to docarzt, Jeff Jenson and cap10tripps: Will each of you please define the difference or similarity of these terms: alternate timelines, multiple time lines and parallel timelines?

I think we are going to be talking a great deal about these phrases over the next eight months, and it would be wonderful to have a common understanding of what each means.

I believe that we are being shown more than one timeline. I believe that the island is where all the timelines that are in play converge in some manner and that the "whispers" are a product of this phenomenon.

I believe that we have been told with authority that Desmond time-traveled at least once. We have been shown that Desmond can see "flashes" of the future and that he relived, tried to change, and was told he couldn't change, the past.

I believe that we also heard Ms. Hawking claim to be a time traveler.

I believe, with no authoritative affirmation, that John Locke is also time-traveling. I can cite at least 3 and maybe 4 examples of why.

And I suspect that others may be as well. Prior to TTLG I would have added Richard, Brother Campbell and Jacob to the list of possible time-travelers. I suppose we now have to consider Jack and Kate as well.

Nice work Doc. Obsession is a wonderful thing to possess. Now, how about the newpaper article that Jack was carrying with him. All I can make out is "Man found..."

J

Wasn't the tsunami within a day or two of this episode? Maybe that "rescue" freighter gets f'ed up and nobody gets rescued just yet.

Just a thought: If Jack & Kate are able to travel back to the Island then it would be possible for them to change events from that point forward.
If that is the case should we not expect to see characters that have died be able to avoid their death with knowledge of the future. Particularly, this is true in the case of Charlie who the audience has an emotional attachment to. Damon said they discussed it and decided that Charlie really had to die to make his sacrifice be real and compelling.
And of course it did but I have a hard time not believing given the vehicle of different time dimensions and the need for Jack to fix the past that it will not result in the return of Charlie and perhaps some others at some point.
Essentially what Charlie did (unintentionally)was to cause a problem if it put them in more danger from unknown enemies. So stopping him from doing that would be beneficial to the timeline that Jack will ultimately interfere with.
It won't seem odd for Dom to be visiting Hawaii and Evangeline after their marriage or to hang around the set sometimes. So they can easily leave his name off of the official actors list like they did this time with the girl who plays Sarah. This would give them the element of surprise.
They could leave him off for all of season 4 possibly 5 and bringing him back later. That would have just as much or more emotional impact as his death did in "Through the Looking Glass". A reunion with him would then be sweet and they would still be true to their "No ones safe strategy"! I can't see them going right back to the beginning but from the pivotal point of this war with the Others and the mistake of trying to get off the Island would probably be the time they will travel to if they can control it. Jack will probably keep being an ass until someone hits him over the head with a bat or oar or something and he will be sent back to that moment in time to redo what he messed up.

I think you're looking too far into the "Every living person on this island will be killed." quote. Ben just used "living" to emphasize how dire the situation will be if Jack makes the call.

I think the island is mobile. I think it may be several different legends from history, perhaps Atlantis or even the treasure island from Pirates of the Carribean (or the derivative legend). I think it was off the coast of Africa when the drug plane crashed, I think it was at some point near the north pole to pick up the bears, and at some point in the Atlantic, perhaps the root of the Bermuda triangle legend.

Think about the native architecture, a sandalled foot of a statute, the ruins, and then Jacobs swamp hut. Jacob's hut made me think of those conquistadors wandering around Florida swamps looking for the fountain of youth (has Richard aged since Ben's been 12?).

Suppose people have been looking for it for centuries, some long term conspiracy theory like the knights templar or something. The boat may be the Illuminati.

I don't think it's (T). I think it's (J). And it makes more sense for it to represent Jacob -- whose agenda Ben doesn't question.

Anagrams for NOT PENNYS BOAT:
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=not+pennys+boat&language=english&d=&include=&exclude=&n=&m=&source=adv&a=n&l=n&q=n

Dude Doc I am soooooo disappointed with your finale coverage. When are you gonna get with the game man?

"Wasn't the tsunami within a day or two of this episode? Maybe that "rescue" freighter gets f'ed up and nobody gets rescued just yet."

Clark, just what i was thinking.

In response to someone who said "I think the island is mobile. I think it may be..." If you have any knowledge of geology you'd realize that an island can only move appreciably on a scale of many millions of years. The island is pushed upward from the ocean floor and can only move as fast as the ocean floor it's part of can move via sea-floor spreading. Continents only drift at the rate your fingernails grow. The more rapid aspect of island movement would be vertical since volcanic Pacific islands just erode away once their volcanoes become inactive.

Could you confirm if its a T? J could be for juliet or john

Also Id like to say that even when everything was going against him,Ben seemed accepting and fatalistic about it all.

In response to zeta prime; we're talking about a tv show that features black smoke monsters, invisible men, hatches that 'save the world'......

Surely an island that moves possibly even teleports about without the inhabitants knowing is possible.

That said; i think it's a complete bollocks.

I did really like the ending. I wrote it down. But as a swede I might got some words wrong. Is this a correct version? Please.
K Hey

J Hey

K Saw you on the news. Still pulling people out of wreckage, eh?

J Old habits.

K You look terrible.

J Thanks

K Why did you call me Jack?

J I hopened you heard, that maybe you wanted to go to the funeral.

K Who would I go to the funeral?

J I've been flying a lot.

K What?

J That golden pass they gave us. I've been using it every friday night. Fly from L.A. to Tokyo, or Singapore, Sidney. And then I get off, and I have a drink, and then I fly home.

K Why?

J Because I wanted to crash Kate, I don't care about anybody else on board. Every bump we hit or turbulence we make I actually close my eyes and I pray that I can get back.

K This is not gonna change.

J I'm sick of lying. We made a mistake.

K I have to go. He's gonna be wondering where I am.

J We were not suppose to leave.

K Yes we were. Good bye Jack.

J We have to go back Kate.

J We have to go back!

Well, Kate says:
Why would I go to the funeral? Of course.

WOW DocArzt, you are incredible doing all that hard work on Ben's Journal for our LOST Tailsection Kibbutz. No doubt we will revisit it several times during our final two seasons:

- 151 frames; PhotoZoom Pro; 4-5 hrs ... Whew, tx very much!
- "(R) & (M)": Richard and Mikail?
- "developing situation": John Locke with Jacob, plus insurgency (Juliet, Richard)
- "our exodus from the village": Locke, low water (local Heavy Water causes sickness and infertility) & supply plagues
- "limit of my tactical resources": New Island Oracle Locke attacks (Flame; Sub; Mikail; Jacob)
- "(T)'s agenda: perhaps (J) for John, Juliet, Jacob, or Jack
- "re-supply ... missed": Penny supplier as orientation promised? Naomi bad other scout or desperate Ben con like Bonnie?

And, our highly talended LOST Tailsection Kibbutz provided such great insights as Comments, and I now have a much larger pile of LOST stuff to ponder (Much Gene Therapy+ homework today, then Post). I particularly like that: 1) Jack's behaviors, comments and weekly flights, and home map pile strongly suggest that Jack can't easily return to our Island, 2) anagram software site, and 3) review previous seasons with new eyes ... hope our buddy DocArzt initiates three new threads for each of the previous seasons!

Namaste - RichPundit

for the missing word, how about...
Without the embelishments, the simple sentence would read: We are short on provision andarms

The complex sentence would look like: We are short on provisions (seasonal) and, more importantly, the long-awaited re-supply of camp gear having been missed (and so necessary!) arms.

Well??

i read several of your posts and i notice that most of you assume that after jack's call they're gonna be all rescued. but that is not necessarily true. since the arrival of naomi's buddies and the departure from the island there could be months!

we don't know what is going to happen, who will do what, which other forces will join the game. so you don't have to feel sad about a full LA season.

naomis buddies are not gona be happy shes dead

Quote: "naomis buddies are not gona be happy shes dead
Posted in reply to chris's comment
chris | May 26, 2007 9:03 AM "

Possibly Chris ... also possible is that Naomi (& perhaps Patchy) aren't dead! Naomi could be unaware of the true nature and intentions of the really bad others that Ben warns Jack about, then helps our now combined Losties/Others survive, maybe defeat, the phone call responding attack - RichPundit

My theory on Naomi's people on the ship off shore is related to all of the hints and videos found on the internet last summer ('06). The videos from the Lost Experience and tid-bits like that (i.e. Sri Lanka Video). The Dharma Initiative was abruptly ended by the "hostiles" in the Purge. But the Hanso foundation still existed and thier philosophy was the Dharma would discover environmental changes on the island that could save the world. I think that Hanso or possibly one of the Doctors that worked for him have been trying to find and get back to the island all these years. They want revenge for the Purge and they want to continue where Dharma left off. Therefore, Naomi's people are there to kill Ben's group and possibly take Jack's group off the island. Then continue the world saving experiments and alter the magic numbers.

Doc,

Jimmy is so upset about your coverage. Jimmy needs a better effort from you, Doc. Jimmy wants you to quit your day job, drop all ancillary tailsection projects, and quit having a life so Jimmy can get the scoop. Jimmy's mad, Jimmy needs a sandwich. MMMMMM Jimmy likes this sandwich. Jimmy wants answers now.

Jimmy

Gusteaux, I took up your challenge. It is rather lengthy, so you will have to visit my blog to read it. I know you would rather hear from one of the big three theorists, but maybe this can spur someone's imagination.

This idea is kind of a weird but here goes;

At this point we really have nothing to go on that is concrete as to who for sure is in the coffin. However maybe a clue lies in the obituary from the part we can definitely make out without guessing at words. (you can't see the forest for the trees)
I am making reference to the word "antham". It has a direct connection with a novella by an author highlighted in Lost before Ayn Rand who is also a philosopher. I just thought it was really weird when I looked it up. The novel connection haters will not buy into this but I think that literary influnces not just one but many are important to the mosaic of Lost.

Really there has to be some clues in this finale that will keep people talking for eight months.
And so far all we have is the "Forward Flashes" anagram.

This is part of what I found on Wiki;
"Anthem is a dystopian, science-fiction novella by philosopher Ayn Rand, first published in 1938.

Anthem is a dystopic science fiction story taking place at some unspecified future date. Mankind has entered another dark age as a result of what Rand saw as the weaknesses of socialistic thinking and economics. Technological advancement is now carefully planned (when it is allowed to occur at all) and the concept of individuality has been eliminated (for example, the word "I" has disappeared from the language). As is common in her work, Rand draws a clear distinction between the "socialist/communal" values of equality and brotherhood and the "productive/capitalist" values of achievement and individuality. The story also parallels Stalinist Russia, which was in existence at the time the story was published.

Many of the novella's core themes, such as the struggle between individualism and collectivism, are echoed in Rand's later books, such as The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_(novella)
It is futuristic and deals with a lot of themes found in Lost.
It kind of freaked me out! what do you guys think?

Dark UFO has an interview with Michael Emerson on his website. Michael believes that Jack and Kate left people behind on the island and that's why Jack is so upset. I can't see how he would have been given this impression from their conversation in that scene. Jack refers to a mistake, and that they shouldn't have left, but I don't see any reference to any others on the island. One would think that with the coffin scene you would get a different impression, one where more people left the island. Is Emerson leaking info or was he just really baked when he watched it?

The site is lostspoilers.com with the Emerson interview. Sorry.

Did u try reading what was on the previous page?looks readable to some extent if u flip the text...surely it mentions something about Jacob!!!!

It seems that people are somewhat neglecting the appearance of Walt (I can understand why with the big smack in the face at the end). My theory here is that Mike and Walt are on the freighter ("Walt shows up places he's not supposed to be"). He appears to Locke to inform him of DHARMA's (who's on the freighter) disastrous plans...

I think I found the correct, full translation. It's on a european website...
www.lost.eu/37dfb

I think I got the missing pieces. I looked at a few other screen caps out there. Italics were found somewhere else on different sites, bold are the missing words. It requires a modification to the lines to read as follows...

but for a partnered campaign of the beach. We are short on provisions (seasonal) and, more importantly, the long-awaited re-supply of camp gear having been missed (and so narrowly!) ran just as our water supply routes have been cut off. We look like a very sad sort of gypsy army. Morale...

A few comments and QUESTIONS:

Patchy has 'come back to life' twice already from the dead. so maybe there is something to ben's comment "every living person on this island will die"...

WHY didn't charlie just let the water pour in and then swim up with Desmond?? WHY did he keep the door locked when the water was pouring In WHY- they could have swam to the opening and swam up!! Also, Or, desmond could have gotten the air tank and brought it round to charlie!

Now about Jack. Jack is definitely NOT working as a doctor after getting back. He must be known as a psychiatric case, a loon. People must all think he is crazy. After he and Kate "got off the island" and reappeared, noone must have believed them, so Kate told him to just forget. It is IRONIC that Kate is the one "who always needs to go back" (as Sawyer and Jack tell her), yet Jack is the one who says to her "we need to go back" a very ironic role reversal.

Jack must have had a nervous breakdown, been a drunk, and probably attempted suicide once before the bridge incident shortly after getting back, probably because he must have left the island NOT being the Hero he always needs to be.

And Jack is now known around the Hospital as the crazy doctor. After Jack went to the ER following saving the woman from the car, he put on a white lab coat over his clothes and, because he is delusional and almost psychotic, wanted to perform surgery. The surgeon was humoring him and being nice to him- we know this because he said "I know all about you"- he knows that Jack comes back to the hospital thinking he should be doing surgery and they have to throw him out every time. This time they were especially nice to him because he was a 'hero".

But then we find out he was NOT really a hero, because he caused the accident on the bridge, and this drives him further over the edge.

Interestingly, Kate looked very white, almost ethereal at the meeting at the airport. I think he never really reached her by phone, but was so high and distraught that... seeeing Kate was really a delusion of his, and that it was KATE who was in the coffin after being killed because he could not protect her (from Dharma people?), and that this brought him to a state that he went over the edge and had a delusion that he met her. we may see a flashback to this time and see that jack was really alone at the airport. Jack is going crazy because he knows he needs to get back to the island so that Kate and other people won't die, and to change the course of events, and this is driving him insane...

So that we may see this play out twice... once where everything goes very very wrong, and Jack makes serious errors and blows it all to hell and he gets back to the US and goes crazy...

and then he gets to go back and UNDO certain things...

A clue to this is when Locke says to Jack "you weren't supposed to do that", that his choice was wrong...

BUT How will he get back to the island???

I have always said, that the biggest mystery will be HOW people get on and off that island, and believe me it has NOTHING to do with submarines.

Next season, with the obvious coming of either Hanso, Dharma, Mittelos or other organization from naomis contact, we will be finding out more about what is really going on with the island, and about how and why people are recruited off island to the island, and about who is running things, ...

and i believe that JULIETTE is allied with the people now coming to infiltrate the island, because she was a spy for them and infiltrated first, was sent by them, (remember she was doing some very very strange nefarious experiments before she "agreeed" to go with richard)

Does anyone think Nirvana is significant?

Did anyone else notice that when Jack was driving to the funeral parlour he was listening to Scentless Apprentice by Nirvana.
Here are my theories:-
Nirvana is in Bhuddism,the highest spiritual plain one can achive.A blissful spiritual condition where the heart extinguishes passion,hatred and delusion.(these three emotions are huge Lost themes).
Nirvana is a state of freedom from pain,worry and the external world and results in the achievement or peace and happiness from the endless cycle of re-incarnation.
So what should we all take from this?
Well firstly,Dharma and Karma(which is mentioned in the final episode) are closley connected.Both of these philosophies as well as Nirvana are all Bhuddist in origin.
The time -line theory is definetley a major theme in the show due to the aforementioned references to Stephen Hawkings book,however a twist to this theory is that of re-visiting the real world time and time again to try and change situations so that life (or death) on the island(i.e. Purgatory) will change and ultimatley result in the achievement of Nirvana.
Incidently Scentless Apprentice was released in 1993 and the album title was "In utero"
Does anyone have any thoughts on this as women on the island keep dying in childbirth.
P.S. anyone have any thoughts on the significance of Wonderwall by Oasis in last weeks episode and Good vibrations by the Beachboys this week?

Ok it's me rabbiting on again as no-one is answering my thoughts.
Wonderwall:-
This was a film in 1968 starring "JACK mcGowan".
The main female characters name was "PENNY".
Co-incidence?
I have also researched Good Vibrations .
This was apparently named a Rock Symphony and was the hardest song ever recorded by the Beach Boys.
Brian Wilson and his father were estranged as he was a violent,abusive,Bi-polar father.
Brian Wilson himself was an alcoholic,drug addict who eventually ended up a schizophrenic.
Hhmmm lot's of parallels and co-incidences eh? This seems to run with the absent/rubbish fathers theme.

Do you really know for a fact that Jack and Kate don't know each other?This so called flash forward may in fact be a flash back intended to fool us.If the Losties have time travelled back to reality and then returned to the island then they may have changed things every time they went back.So therefore the current Island reality may in fact be after the meeting between jack and Kate at the airport and so the meeting may be past tense.They may have revisited the island again(this reality) in order to change the course of events.

Do you really know for a fact that Jack and Kate don't know each other?This so called flash forward may in fact be a flash back intended to fool us.If the Losties have time travelled back to reality and then returned to the island then they may have changed things every time they went back.So therefore the current Island reality may in fact be after the meeting between jack and Kate at the airport and so the meeting may be past tense.They may have revisited the island again(this reality) in order to change the course of events.

Just read new Comments since yesterday:

Joanne's & HawaiiHeaven's comments are AWESOME and much fun! Whew, adds much homework to my already huge LOST homework pile.

[And, am already struggling developing and connecting Genes (e.g., Bad Dad (Mom), Prescient), Gene Therapy (e.g., Organ Harvesting, Life Extension), and other related Mosaic Pieces (e.g., Hanso: Magnus, Mittlewerk, Alvar, Corporation, Widmore, Jacob, Others, etc) ... hopefully will Post something useful for us later today.]

- Joanne: Fits well that "in utero" (Nivanna), OASIS, and "Good Vibrations" lyrics are likely significant LOST Producer "Mosaic" pieces/clues.
- Kauai see's "a" possible LOST saga. As you suggest, perhaps human pysche existence is an "Ouroboros" continuous flow in time(s). The sum of human psyches repeats according to set events as specified by our Valenzetti "Numbers" with different possible paths guided by specific decisions by evolved psyches (e.g., Desmond/Charlie - when/where/how Charlie dies). Please check out Behaviourist Carl Jung's passion about our "Ouroboros Psyches".

SOooo, perhaps Jack's psyche when both Ben and Locke desperately begged Jack not to make that call, Jack calls. Fastforward, events follow Jack's call (e.g., attack, Others/Losties merge, discover underground Utopia), and at least Jack and Kate leave our Island. But Jack breaks down devastated and burdened by the events resulting from his decision to call. Now perhaps, and this may be really cool, Jack continues in his personal Ouroboros and desperately wants (e.g., weekly flights, map pile) the chance to decide NOT to make that call which shifts our "Numbers"!

Tx to everyone for sharing your hard work and incredible LOST insights - RichPundit

Dear Richpundit,
glad you liked my comments.I will most crtainly check out Carl Jung's theory on ouroboros psyches.
Hhhhmmmm interesting.........

Tabula:

By no means did I intend to give you, or anyone else, the "Hurley treatment" by only the "big three" (your words, not mine) to lend some definition to the various timeline concepts. I merely singled those three out because they seem to be the ones who most often theorize in those terms. I always enjoy your thoughtful and insightful theories and I would love to read your thoughts on the timeline(s) subject. Please provide me with a link to your blog.

Left out the word "asking" in comment avove: ...by only ASKING the "big three"...

Tabula:
Duh! I clicked on your green, underlined, screen name and voilla: there it was. Thank you. That was a very insightful read. So am I deducing correctly that you are leaning toward "movement within a single timeline?"

If so, wouldn't that mean that if Jack did in fact succeed in traveling back to the island and making different choices that the person in the coffin might not have died at that point in the future? Maybe Jack realizes that and that is why he is so upset?

I am leaning toward the premise that jack and Kate make it off the island. Jack leaves the island under circumstances where he is NOT a hero, does not save as many lives as he would have liked, and, most importantly, that he did NOT eradicate, but rather left in place a diabolical organizational structure that still has control over the island, people remaining on the island and over people off the island. This group (Dharma, Mittelos, Hanso, etc??) can still bring people to the island, and can still track down those who leave it to serve its purposes (purposes which we will still learn in coming seasons).

In this way, even off the island,they can be chased down, or controlled in other ways.

Once off island, jack realizes all this but everyone thinks he is CRAZY, a NUT, a lunatic, (especially since he is ranting about a NON-EXISTING island in the Pacific 9hence all his maps trying to locate it). People off island assume that his craziness is psychological consequences of the crash. We will see that he spends a certain amount of time at the same psychiatric Hospital as the one HURLEY was in.

After his release from the psychiatric ward, he becomes a drug addict and alcoholic, is on the verge of madness, and wanders in the Hospital from time to time thinking he is still a surgeon, and the Staff is accustomed to this and tells him gently to go home.

One day he reads and article saying that someone, I think KATE, has died in a strange accident, and he realizes that this was caused by the "organization" that he left in place on the Island, and that their tentacles are still ruining people's lives. It is Kate in the coffin.

This drives him over the edge, and he has a drug-addled delusion that he reaches Kate, from whom he had been estranged,and "meets" her at the airport. We see Kate as a very white faced almost ghostly apparition. he tells her that they MUST GO ACK!

Remember, this is Kate's own line from on the Island- she always was saying she wanted to GO BACK for someone and getting Jack and Sawyer mad for going back for people, now ironically it is Jack who finally realizes that HE MUST go back.

Jack realizes that on island, traveling to the island can leave you off in different island time. It is the TRAVEL to and from the island that can put you back or forward, so that he can change the events where He and Kate have not left yet.

In the last season we will see Jack go back and change evnts where he will attempt to CHANGE the mistakes he made, and ERADICATE the evil forces driving island mysteries, and be a true HERO.

HawaiiHeaven
I like your theories!
These are just possibilites I really have no idea;
Charlie had to really die to have the emotional impact that the D/C wanted.
Will he come back? I think before the very end of the series he will due to changes that Jack makes in the time line.

Damon & Carleton seem to indicate that Charlie will still be on the show through flashbacks for sure anyway. If I understand this quote right;

TVGuide.com: “And Charlie will be back in some way again on Lost, right?”
Monaghan: It's really not up to me. I think, to a certain extent, if I was writing the show, we may not be having this interview right now. That's a question for the writers. [Says Lindelof: "You'll still be feeling Charlie's presence very much, although the character is dead. That's not to say that we won't see him again. You just won't be seeing him in the present." Adds executive producer Carlton Cuse, "If you look at the show, a lot of characters work more when they're dead than they did when they were alive."]

With the nature of this story it leaves the door open for anything happening in the future. If he comes back after a long time it would be an emotional high for the audience as much as his death was now. Just don’t expect it in the near future.

The importance of sealing that door in the Looking Glass is because that hatch is a key to getting Off/On the island and they will revisit it again sometime and being flooded it would be useless.(probably more importantly to get back to the Island now.)Ben lied about it being flooded because even without the sub someone could swim into it and they could leave the island and he wanted them to not leave and to keep the frequency jammed so no one could find their way to it.

Jack obviously is not going to kill an airplane load of people to get back to the island. He will have to check out Mittelos Bioscience and find the portal back to the Looking Glass.

Reading that article made me think; If only some of them make it to the future and then decide they want to come back and stay on the island permanently in an altered timeline, maybe Charlie comes back eventually in this way. It would be in future Jack/Kate's past (not appearing in the true present time) but he would really be alive in the timeline they decide to stay in. Their reality would be "Lost Time" to the real world.

For all of the Losties the sense of family they found in their group is what makes the Island their new home.
In the past and in the future they are alone without purpose and they come to realise that they belong on the island. You are right though Kate looks and acts weird in the future. They must be under some sort of threat to stay in the future but Jack can not live with it.

In addition to my above post, i must say that alternatively, the person in the coffin is Locke, and that Locke was killed in a staged suicide and that Jack realizes that they need to go back to the island to destroy any members still controllling the island. Remember, Patchy thought the girls had gone to CANADA, meaning they can come and go and do their destructive damage all over the world by recruiting and training and kidnapping and other chicanery.

In coming seasons we will see alot of this coming and going, and how Jack will finally act to destroy this means of travel even if it gets himself trapped on island forever.

...and of course, I have been insisting for a LONG time that Juliette was the first to infiltrate, her organization has been impregnating women with strange mysterious embryos for a long time....and now her group is joining her.

MOST IMPORTANT question Jack NEVER asked JULIETTE or BEN:

If you were only interested in fertility of women on island, in keeping them alive to give birth...WHY DID YOU GO OUT ON A BOAT TO TAKE WALT?

Stev:
Also unanswered is when, where and under what circumstances did he previously know John Locke?

M: "The John Locke I knew was para...."

H20 and Hawaiiheaven I salute you both man!

Hi Doc,

First time poster and avid fan of lost. I have to take on board that there are a lot of people that have spent huge amounts of time laying the whole situation down for us more transparent fans to watch and learn, however the finale was a huge disappointment as a two hour special.

I have to agree with some of the posts that we learnt very little about the island and the flash forwards were only used to fend off arguments that the story needs an ending, so what better a time to slot in a meeting between Jack and Kate off the island with Jack all messed up and Kate looking hot.

One point that did interest me is that the other survivors up to a point were seen briefly in season 3 and yet when Ben and Jack got to talk about not making the call to the boat, Ben suggested they go back to their seperate ways.

Why would Ben not take the rest of the Losties into his community?

I am sure that season 4 will start off rather than pick up speed straight away, it is just a shame a year will pass before we have something to get our teeth into.

This is TV at it's greatest, long live lost and any spin offs.

Hey Justin. The finales are ment more to set up the next season than bring closure to the current, that's just the serialized style at play. But yeah, damn frustrating. :D

As for just bringing the losties into their community, I think one of the most underrated learnings this season is that Smokey is not connected to the others. So that means they are aware of this highly destructive force, and probably that it judges people. Imagine growing up in a society where you are stalked my a mindless judging machine. After a while you'd start being very careful about the company you keep.

Of course, (I hope!), there is more to this than just that, but something about some apparatus being able to eyeball the soul is probably going to become of more importance as they near "the temple."

Perhaps one clue can be found in the fact that when Smokey saw Juliette it reacted more like a flash bulb then then the soul-review machine it did when it met up with Mr. Eko. It also had the same reaction when it met up with Jon, presumably, because he reported seeing light.

Regardless, I think "the others" have a moral criteria for inclusion in their ranks for a reason.

I also don't think it is a T in the journal, but a J, and I think the J is Juliet. Juliet's agenda is to get off the island, Ben knows this and knows she might not be 100% on his side, and this is why Ben wishes he had more time to surveille the beach.

I don't think the visions of the horse/Ben's mother/Jack's father/Eko's brother etc are the smoke monster in disguise, I think they are Jacob making appearances on the island.

Tabula:
First, you misunderstood my use of the word "minimal." I did not mean that the responses and thinking behind them were minimal. What I meant to say was that it received a minimum number of responses. I am convinced that Smokey was in front of the bus...off island. To me, this is perhaps the single most significant event/clue that we have been shown.

The example that you point to, that Richard was walking around inside the fence in the compound further verifies my theory. No one, except Jacob, knows that Richard is Smokey. When Ben and the Others/Hostiles enter and exit the compound, the sonic fence is turned off via the key pad. Richard goes in and out with them on these occasions. Further, I would think that someone as far up in the hiearchy of the Others/Hostiles as Richard is would KNOW the code. Juliet knew the code, why wouldn't Richard.

Also, Richard has been careful to never appear as Smokey INSIDE the compound...thus maintaining his "cover" and leading the Others to believe that they are "safe" from Smokey inside the fence.

You did mention something in your previous post that has me stumped. You are correct that we have only seen Smokey kill twice: the pilot and Eko. I have not yet been able to determine why those two were killed. Yes, perhaps it was Eko's judgement day and he failed...but why the pilot? Everyone else seems to have been given the opportunity to redeem themselves, but the pilot was not.

And now for something completely different (Monty Python shout out):

Who programmed the "Good Vibrations" code into jamming mechanism in The Looking Glass?

Bonnie told Charlie that it was programmed, "by a musician." The only musician we have met on the island is Charlie. When Bonnie told him it was programmed by a musician, Charlie reacted with a puzzled facial expression. Did Charlie program the code in a previous timeline?

I dont think it would be too much of a strech to say john had just bumped into jack befor he pulled the gun on jack! as in jack from the future had gone back and told john to stop him, only thing was is that john really dont wanna kill jack cause the would mess him meeting jack up so he's just gotta hope jack stops!

Tabs,
Of course I do. Nor do I. I mearly attempt to (in a polite way) reaffirm the intent of my words for other readers when playful attempts to alter their meaning occur.

Richard would not have warned Ben of Juliet's plan because he approved of it. Richard made it clear to Locke that he had had enough of Ben's obsession with fertility issues and was ready to get back to the business of serving the island's needs.

With regard to your questions about Smokey's two appearances to Juliet and his coming back as executioner: I never viewed the second appearance that way. But I'll rewatch the two scenes before I respond further.

By the way, Count me in for the summer assignment. I'll rewatch them on the same days. And you know what screen cap I'll be suggesting. Did you calculate the timing of the Season 3 release to work out to no downtime after Live Together, Die Alone?

Steve (or is it Scott?),
Dude. I actually understood that.

that isn't a T, that's J. the journal refers to Jabobs plan

Gasteaux,
I am new th this forum aqnd so glad I have read your theory on Richard being Smokey!
Very cool!
Joanne.x

Gusteaux was the steve/scott thing in response to me???

Dunno if I made what I was saying very clear so I’ll start again as I’ve a bit more time.

As we know the directors/producers of Lost don’t always want us to know what’s going on, but somehow they gotta get their story across and gotta get to a finish line, this is why I think Jack going back in the past to John works out, cause as far as we know at the moment not much happened to john after seeing Walt, but come end of season 4 / early season 5 we will see a john lock flashback where he meets future jack, this will all make sense at that point in time thoe cause I reckon between now and then they will be rescued but something will happen to them off the island that will make them NEED to return (e.g. jack spking to Kate) so we will see a flashback of john meeting future jack (and maybe future Walt (hence him being older) who explain to him he needs to stop what’s happening, but if they intervene with their past selves or Walt just appears it will mess up the time line and ruin the future/past, jack must decide to stop but john cant kill him.

P.s just reading over my post and I’ve just got the steve / scott remark, yes yes very funny!

I'm glad at least the users of this website are posting new, original content. As much as I'd like to think Richard is Smokie it is a little absurd. According to DHARMA the fence was designed to keep the hostiles out. However, when young Ben was in school the hostiles seemed to be within the sonic fence perimeter because we heard gunfire. The fence appears to be removed from the community itself, so the threat had to be close. We've seen our Losties scale that fence with a little ingenuity. We've also seen Mikhail pushed into the fence, and while he may be Lazarus himself, he survived. Yet, the fence is amazingly effective in stopping Smokie. While we know there are time/space issues with Lost, do we really believe that Smokie would have assumed the form of a non-aging man to befriend Ben 10-15 years prior to Ben selling out his people, just so he could get through the sonic fence barrier and keep an eye on these people for Jacob? If so, then Richard's/Smokie's most awesome power is his patience. If I'm wrong, I can't wait to see that flashback.

Man, this site has gone dead since the finale. What a disappointment. Doc, where are you man? So much interesting stuff to discuss - DarkUFO's site has been on fire, at least.

Hey Joe. Been involved with holiday weekend festivities for the most part. Back on it tomorrow.

Setting Ben's journal aside because I think it's a useless bit of information, one thing I noted was the voice on the satellite phone (the person Jack was speaking with). It sounded an awful lot like Tom to me. It reminded me so much of the end of the first season.

Thank you, Joanne. I've enjoyed reading your posts too. Welcome;)

Higdon:
"Patience" is the last word Richard said to young Ben during their encounter in the jungle. I would think that for a person who doesn't age, patience would be an easy virtue to practice.

H20:
Did you mean Magnus Hanso?

And after giving it more thought, we have seen another musician. Jack seems to be quite an accomplished pianist. But I still think it was Charlie.

Thanks, Doc. This is my favorite site, can't wait to see what you have in store for us.

The person in the casket is Aaron! Claire and Aaron are the chosen ones! 8/15! The date of Aaron's birth, thus making him a little under 2-3 years old based on the timelines we've seen post-island! Remember, it's a FLASHFORWARD. I still rock Nirvana daily! Get on the boat with that. IT'S AARON! CLAIRE'S DEAD PEOPLE, JACK HAS TO GO BACK, He knows that he effed up and thus his sister is dead.

Gusteaux: Great memory. Maybe you're Smokie. If you are right about Richard being Smokie, it helps secure a theory I have about the Island. I think the Island is a metaphor for religion as a lot of people see it. Let me explain...There is a significant portion of the population that practices religion of some sort or another. Within all of these religions we see examples of a God who at times can be very active in his peoples decisions. While I may never have seen the hand of God very blatantly in action (I'm talking miracles of spectacle), many people believe that their God is capable of doing this. He/She can be compassionate, angry, pleased, defied, etc. He/She can also smite, flood, throw lightning bolts from the heavens, cast down enemies into hell, etc. In Christianity and Judaism, both religions reference the coming of a Messiah to judge/save their people. All very active actions by an unseen supernatural being. Yet, very recently, a poll of Americans(I love us, but there are some of us who are not that smart)showed nearly 1/3 believed in a literal interpration of the bible!

I believe that this Island is functioning in the same manner. We've established a reverance by various "believers", whose communion with the Island has brought about miracles of spectacle. We've seen the Island physically react (volcanoes, hatch implosion, manifestations) and it would seem that part of the Island is judging people, ultimately killing some. Consider further that the judge may be called "Cerebrus", which was a 3 headed dog. The number 3 is very significant in Christianity.

Religion as a metaphor in lit and other medias is pretty ubiquitous. However, I think this interpretation (if this is what the writers intended) is fairly clever. We've seen countless Christ-figures, but I don't think I've ever witnessed "Trinity-figures". I know some people don't care for organized religion, but the fact remains that it can be a powerful metaphor.

Now would "somebody" please post some Easter Eggs from the last episode. We've had a newspaper and journal to look through and very little else. I can't imagine that's all they put in there. Pretty please.

I'm loving this theories, can we set an msn chat or something? i would love to spend 30 hours talking about lost haha

someoneisright,

how did you come up with aaron being born on 8/15?? The flight crashed in Sept of '04, and aaron hadn't been born yet.(he was born in the next month or so after the crash) It would have been a nice story, but it just doesn't work out that way.

Has anyone noticed that "Jacob" looks like John Locke in a wig?
In episode 21 there is a frame in "Jacob's shack" where you see an old man.Check him out and see if anyone agrees.Thanks ,Jo.

why are my comments suddenly being held for approval?

Has anyone noticed in episode 21 that The frame in "Jacob's shack" shows an old man.He is Lockes doucle!Look at him and you will see he is Locke in a wig!

Someoneisright and Dr. Nope,
Walt was born on 8/15. Check it. :)

My Post are not going through is there a reason.Sorry do not know how to conntact Anyone if this does not work.I used the security code both times and nothing has shown up all day.

Looks like it is working fine.Sorry!

j

perseph:
Charlie didn't "guess the right tune on the first try." Bonnie told him that the code was the notes to "Good Vibrations." Although I do agree that Charlie was the musician who originally programmed the code in another timeline.

T = Thomas Mittelwerk, the guy who locked Hanso inside his home (see the norway video from lost experience).

Ben is working out with Mittelwerk to reach their mutual goal, which is to fix the fertility problem. The other others main goal is to break the equation (timeloop) and Ben has spent too much time with Mittelwerk's experiments.

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