Damn...That makes perfect sense.

Except that this leaves out the fact that Danielle had her baby taken by the Others shortly after she crashed on the Island, and Kelvin referred to "the hostiles" during Desmond's flashback, insinuating that the other people on the Island (pre-crash) posed some sort of threat.

I think you're making a bit of a stretch, albeit tantalizing and sensational.

Still the monster, the voices, the magnetic island all need to be explained.

I would add a couple things to round this out.

I know there's been chatter as to why Ben would need Jack to operate on him if the island has healing powers, a la Rose's cancer, Locke's legs, and Charlie's insta-drug recovery. Keep in mind that according to the Station 3 orientation film, Dr. Candle seemed to indicate that the "unique" electro-magnetic energy was located in "this sector of the island," or something like that. My guess is the healing properties of the island are linked to the electro-magnetic energy. My guess also is that Rose, Locke, and Charlie remain "healed" as long as they remain in this neck of the island woods. In light of this idea, it suggests some new possibilities about what Ben did last season. Maybe his original intention was to become part of the castaway encampment and see if the EM energy would heal him. But this plan got shot to hell when they put him in The Hatch and exposed him as an Other. I also wonder if Station 3 shielded the occupants from the affects of EM energy--which is why Ben was never healed, and why Locke ultimately lost use of his legs again; too much time in The Hatch!

way off base, imo.

remember that Goodwin killed a survivor, and Ethan strung Charlie up to die when he kidnapped Claire...

whatever disregard for the life/death of others they have they had before the survivors crashed.

also, just because Ethan was working on Juliet's pipes (no pun intended) that does not mean that they were married... there is no other interaction between those two at any other point, and we never saw Ethan even inside the house. no evidence to support any connection between them, as far as I am concerned.

I do agree that there is someone above Ben in the command heirarchy, but I do not think that person is on the island. when they saw the plane breaking up, Ben was the one who issued orders to Goodwin and Ethan to infiltrate the survivors and to generate lists in 2-3 days. He was in charge and/or knowledgeable of whatever it was they were doing on the island enough to make those calls at that time...

if the others wanted vengenence on the survivors, it would be much easier to just put Charlie's name on the list in addition to Kate/Jack/Sawyer/Hurley and then just kill him. the others also seem to do quite well at simply sneaking around and killing who they want to anyway.

I think that the reveal will happen not via interrogation, but via an offer... i.e. the others will make an offer to Jack and/or someone else to get involved in what they are doing on the island... remember that Ben set this up with his initial conversation with Jack about leaving the island "yes, why *would* we stay on this island?" he said... obvious foreshadowing that there is a specific reason for them to be on the island, and that it will likely be revealed to Jack at some point.

overall, interesting speculation, but way off base, imo.

I could almost believe all of that except for one thing... they made great pains to make us think Juliet and Ben had some sort of history. Look at the season premiere, as well as other trades back and forth between them. I think they had recently broken up when the plane crashed.

Now, Ethan fixing Juliet's plumbing does indicate he was close to her, but I saw it more as him helping her out as a friend. Juliet did NOT seem worried about Ethan going off to infiltrate the survivors camp... she would have at least given him a goodbye if that was her husband.

I do very much like the idea of the Others having had a schism during the last 70 days, and there now being two groups (one now exiled to the Hydra station, the other group in Othersville, maybe?), but I think the motivations for that split aren't quite what is listed here.

in regards to Ben's tumor...

I posted this a while back in another thread in the forums, I think it would be a nice twist to show that whatever energy present in and around the island that promotes healing can also have a negative affect after prolonged exposure... i.e. Ben developed a tumor because of his constant exposure to the energy of the island... if the island's energy works by regenerating cells, it could easily explain the development of a tumor.

my money is on juliet killing ben in the february opening. how can this guy substantiate goodwin with friendly and juliet with ethan? we've only had evidence of a prior relationship between juliet and ben.

I hate to admit it, but that's a pretty good theory. I don't like it, because I want Juliet to be good. Vengeance doesn't fit into her personality. I think in the long run Juliet and Jack will end up together. And to Grubby- Ben won't die yet. I think a flashback of Ben would be about the coolest thing you can imagine. What was life like 20 years ago on the island?

G-MAN AND LORI: My theory would actually cover many of your caveats. The Collective has been on The Island for a long time--dating back to Dharma. They took Danielle, and my hunch is that Ben was raising her; hence, why Ben asked about her prior to going under the knife. I have also previously speculated that the part of Dharma's multi-faceted work was exploring new avenues of education; these children may indeed be "the whispers," and they are observing the island drama from afar, telepathically. In some ways, the castaway drama is for their benefit; they are studying their social dynamics and behavior. As for Kelvin, remember: I think the occupants in The Hatch were also among the test subjects in this radical experiment in education and "enlightenment." I think these experiments involved a great deal of psychodrama, a la that Michael Douglas movie "The Game," in which he was being hunted by enemies who turned about to be actors playing the role of bad guys. I'm proposing the original mission of The Collective was to facilitate that psychodrama; they might have been playing the role of "hostiles." As for the magnetic island and the monster: I'm going with the current, prevailing view that the Em energy was beung manipulated to cloak the island from view of sattelites and such, to keep its location secret. As for the The Monster, I have no easy answer. I've long maintained that he's either a product of Dharma experimentation, or separate entity unto itself. I've also recently argued that the Others may be humanoid manifestations of The Monster who gained free will. I really, really like that last idea, tho not sure if it can fit into this new idea, or stands in opposition to it.

As we discussed previously, Jeff, and I can't remember which of us said it first: Em is the foundation of all matter... so the fact that there is something 'unique', to use Dr. Candle's word, about the island's EM would seem to indicate that is what is having such a positive impact biologically. (Locke, and Rose's cures.) So if this is some sort of life giving force, maybe it also evolves things. It is sickness time, is it not? Those who are 'evolved' to a certain degree begin to have psychic experiences (whispers) before their evolved senses eventually drive them mad -- and people start losing arms. This would be sickness zone. The vaccine somehow prevents that from happening. I think the interior of the hatch is also protected, notice Desmond was outside of the protective armor of the hatch and a big burst left him with the ability to see the future?
So maybe the monster is super evolved people. Kinda corny in a sci-fi sense, but people evolve to pure energy. The others, then, are in place to sort of make sure only the "right" people reach that state. They are watchers who believe that those who are sent to them are to be pasturized.

I think, that you guys are not giving enough credit to the others or Jack. They set it all up last night for Kate and Sawyer to hook up and for Jack to see it the way he did. They think they are playing Jack, they are making him want to do it, weather its for personal reasons or not they made him want to do it. Jack is the Hero of this story, and he will and has outsmarted the others plain and simple. Kate was Jack's bait and Sawyer was Kate's. In the end Sawyer might be the one saving Jack thou.

CFETTE: I must admit, I'm kinda cheating; part of my justification for an Ethan/Juliet connection is the widely circulated spoiler pic that reveals Ethan will appear in Juliet's off-island flashback. However, I think I might be wrong about Juliet and Ethan being married for another reason altogether--his obession with Claire. So maybe he wasn't Juliet's husband, but her brother. That still gives Juliet motivation to go after Charlie. As for Goodwin, I would make a distinction between his murder of the guy from "Ed" and bloody vengeance; my hunch is that the Collective ethos allows for killing when circumstances allow for it. When Goodwin killed "edFriend" he was doing so to protect his mission, which benefiited a higher ideal. Vengeance is another matter altogether. [As for why Ethan tried to kill Charlie if he adhered to a benevolent ethos, I think the show has clearly established that Ethan was unbalanced and went off mission as he became obssessed with Claire. He fell down on his Lost making duties, and abducted her without permission.]

Let's not forget that they had to climb to cut down Charlie. It is just as likely that his hanging was the work of "the monster". Which would also make more sense with the time-line....

I love this theory!!! Eventhough I question the relationship between Juliet and Ethan, I don't see it as a stretch. She could have bitterness towards Ben for sending Ethan off to the other side.
As for the healing properties, remember what the healer in Australia said, Not everyone can be healed in the same place. Eventhough the island healed Rose and Locke, it might not have been Bens "place to be healed"

If all the Others want is revenge on Charlie and Ana (Why Sawyer?), they are certainly going about it circuitously. Perhaps to save Ben, yes, but in Seasons 1 and 2 they made it very, very clear that if they wanted someone dead, they could do it. Charlie and Steve/Scott are one example. Having Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Locke surrounded unarmed in the jungle is another. If any of your so-called 'Collective' wanted certain Losties dead... it sure seems like they could just... do it. Why go to the trouble of forming a sect, buying Ben's aid, etc... It could be explained, but it seems like a LOT of explanation for the sake of a revenge story. Personally I hope their motivations are a LOT more interesting.

As far as the island "healing" Locke and Rose, we shouldn't jump to conclusions. I would agree that we viewers are being led down that path but we don't know for sure how Locke was "paralyzed". Perhaps it's psychosomatic(wikipedia this)....it could all be in Locke's mind and the plane crash could have brought him back to reality. If something traumatic happened to Locke(like Helen dying, as is being rumored) he could have suffered from post traumatic stress syndrome and manifested his own paralysis. Rose says she "feels" as if the cancer has left her..she may have told Bernard this to keep him from struggling and trying to save her. Maybe she wants to die in peace. And to anyone who thinks the island helped Jin "impregnate" Sun, since Jin was sterile, look no further than Jae Lee. We don't know how soon after his death that Sun and Jin boarded the plane from Australia. That's most likely Jae's baby. This all sheds doubt on the healing properties of the island, which means Ben can't be healed. I agree that maybe his tumor was caused by his prolonged exposure to the fallout of the magnet. Remember Sayid's Chernoybl reference, in regards to all the concrete? It may also be why the Others can't have children, thereby justifying the research Juliet was originally called to do.
PS I love this damn show and I love this website!! Jeff Jensen is awesome and big shout outs to DocArzt and DarkUFO!!!

Another thing wrong with this is seen in the opening moments of 3x01. juliet goes to the mirror with tears in her eyes. A few moments later (after the plane crash) Ben looks at her and says,"Well, it looks like I'm out of the book club.".

Juliet and Ben were the couple who recently split apart. The coincidence of the comment from ben and her being upset is just too strong. My guess is that Ben found out about the tumor (two days before the crash) and somehow this made him leave Juliet. If I'm not mistaken it is common for terminally ill people to push away their spouses and loved ones.

I dont think the island heals you 100%. I think it just stops nasty stuff from continuing. I bet if Locke or Rose left the island they would be messed up again.

As for Ben, the island is just keeping his tumor from killing him.

1. The Collective doesn't live to the North of the Fusies, but more to the North-East. Here:

http://sabonasi.livejournal.com/173509.html#cutid1

(My marking of The Pearl is speculation, but it's a good visual of The Collective/Suburbia in relation to the Tailies and the Fusies.)

2. We saw *Ben* order Ethan and Goodwin to make the lists.

3. This I like. No support, though.

7. The Others never ordered Michael to kill Ana Lucia. And Danny tried to kill Sawyer because Sun killed Colleen, not because Sawyer killed an unnamed Other in the season two finale.

I like the theory and it makes sense. This had been mentioned in the forum recently. I agree I think Patchy is a leader of the "misfit" collective group. I believe that the unearthing of the Flame station by Locke and Co. is going to play pivotal role in the upcoming episodes. It would be interesting to see Locke and Co. discover the Collectives and we,fans, find out about their past and the divide. Imagine if we,FANS, and LOSTIES are pitted between two groups and ultimately have to decide which group is good and which group is bad. I see a huge battle brewing in upcoming episodes and potentially season 4 where Locke and Co. are sided with the Collectives and Jack & Co. side with Ben and the others. Now back to what I was talking about earlier. I hypothesize with a few fans that the Flame station is the source of control of Smokey. It makes sense to me that with fire comes smoke. And that Patchy and crew are using Smokey as a mean to patrol the island. Maybe another reason why Ben & Co. had to leave island one for fear of retribution by the "Collectives". Maybe once the great divide among the OTHERS occurred there was a mad dash to occupy stations specifically the FLAME station because of its control of Smokey (the Island's source of malevolent power or the experimentation gone wrong) It is ironic to me that the second island contains the Hydra Station which instills a sense of safety because "water" extinguishes "fire". All speculaton, but interesting to ponder over the hiatus.

I agree with the person that said Juliet kills Ben, or maybe picket. I had thought it would be Ben, but his condition doesn't make any sense for that.

I recall Ben mentioning that he was born on the island, he's been there
since birth. Perhaps his father is the mysterious leader, He/Him of the Collectives.

Whoever's in charge or close to the person in charge is named Jacob. When picket was headed toward the cages to kill Sawyer, he said "Shepherd was never on Jacob's list" Jacob is either a person or a company. Or perhaps, someone we still don't know is an Other who's currently among the losties. Paulo perhaps?

Ben asked "Did Alex ask about me?" When Alex warns Kate that they're going to kill her boyfriend "like they did mine" I don't thing she was talking about the young man we saw in the cage across from Sawyer. I think she was talking about Ben.

Kate's disappearance from her cage and subsequent "roughing up" would seem to indicate that they got under her skin better than they got under Sawyer's or Jack's. I remember seeing in one of the previews that there was a handcuffed Kate telling Ben "We have a boat" and Ben said "How?!" that scene was reshot with Colleen telling Ben about the boat. I think TPTB didn't want us to see Kate's interrogation because it would give us too much information about whatever they managed to coerce her into.....or even let us know they coerced her into anything. two things make me say this. One, when Jack asked if they'd hurt her, she broke down and started to cry. Two, while on the radio she kept telling Jack she couldn't leave without him...insisting, in fact. I don't think that's all because Kate's really in Love with Jack (and I think she is). I believe it's because they have something on her. Ben did choose to speak to her first and let her know, not Sawyer or Jack, that the next two weeks were going to be unpleasant.

I remember reading that we would find out either Kate or Sawyer did the dirty deed for personal gain. I think that's Kate, hands down. She never answered Sawyer when he asked if she meant it when she said she loved him. And, I believe it has something to do with saving Jack's life. It's him she really loves. She probably thinks he deserves better than her (like she thought her husband deserved better) but loves him nonetheless.

She knew they were being watched. And I believe she slept with Sawyer, knowing they'd show Jack. That way, Jack would let her go and leave without her whenever the chance presented itself to him, thereby saving the man she loves.

But I've never known Ben not to have and ace up his sleeve. He insured he'd survive the surgery somehow. And he did it with Kate, which I'm sure we're going to find out in February.

I think the scene that was filmed with Juliette killing someone, must have been her killing Picket. That's my theory.

You should add Sun to the list of those who have killed an Other. Eko too but that's kind of a moot point. According to how Danielle talks, I wouldn't be surprised if she offed one or ten too.

Jeff,
Regarding the monster, I think it's important to recall that each time we see the monster and smoke performing actions (pulling Locke into the ground, bashing Eko) we also hear the distinctive mechanical 'cranking' sound, which implies that the 'monster' is actually a physical machine (remember the island's security system mentioned by Rousseau). The smoke may be generated to disguise its mechanical apparatus. How else could dynamite disarm the 'monster' when Locke was being pulled into the ground of what we assume is an natural 'island.'

What about the bigger picture of the supposed "background knowlege" the others have on the survivors? Was this done through outside contact post crash, or prior to - vis a vie, was the crash an accident or part of a larger scheme. Ben's comment to Jack about Juliette looking strikingly similar to his ex as not a coincidence, seems to indicate a plan in effect longer than three months. Also, his god/fate reference about needing a spinal surgon and one dropping from the sky. Really? The fraction between the "other" groups certainly does fill in some blanks, but doesn't answer the big why and what of Dharma and the objective of the island and its x-years of operation. The reveal imho, is going to be the workings of Hanso and the "building a brighter future". The long plot (story arc) is for the "losties" lead by Jack, to uncover the truth and reveal/stop a global initiative with deep roots. Uh, Alias?!

so the others were on the big island when the plane crashed, right? I mean they had to be, Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin off running in different directions towards the different parts of the plane, they would have gone together to hop on a boat to get to the big island. SO, the other others are still on the big island in the village that we first saw, and Ben's others are on the little island with Jack to operate on Ben. Does this still explain the barefooted others that were dragging around the teddy bear? Ben's others dress like raggamuffins, but not so far as to be barefoot and wandering... right?

I like the idea of the 2 Others factions....and gCarl nade a good point:Maybe one group is in control of the other group(Think Ben and his folks, versus the teddy bear carrying others).....As far as Jacob is concerned, I went a little Biblical(copying Jeff Jensen)..In the Bible, Jacob is Benjamin's father...And Jacob had a twin brother, who he stole his birthright from(Bad Twin, anyone?)...The cool thing is that Benjamins tribe is referred to as "Benjamites"...I prefer this name to "Others" and when we see a divided faction actually pop up, I want some credit for the Benjamite reference...last point: Benjamites were recognized for their 2 fighting specialties: archery and slings...Who used archery on the show? Danielle, when she shot Ben in the shoulder before giving him to Sayid....and who just used a sling? Alex, when breaking into the compound....BOOM!

And I should give credit to Wikipedia for the research on my above post....Great place for quick references!!

OK we all have our thoughts on what is happening on the island and why but we have seemed to miss the larger question...Why are the even there? The prooducers have said that there is a logical reason for the show. Any thoughts...mine the very last eposide will be all about jack. He is either in a comma or dreaming but if you look at it alot if not all of the people in the story have something in common with jack. This hole plot line is to make jack see the good and bad in himself and help him change his ways to make him a better person. In the end he awakes and maybe his wife,dad are not dead and this helps him change to become closer to them and possibally save them. just a thought but as always with all of our thoughts we could be way off!

Jeff,
In your response to me, you said that the Others took Danielle. Does this imply that you feel there was an attempt to induct Danielle into the Others or did you mean to say they took Alex from Danielle? It would be interesting if the Others had tried to bring Danielle into their group and she rejected them, but I don't quite know if I can swallow that pill at this time. Of course maybe she is an Other and is only trying to instill fear into the minds of our Losties, but that would contradict her reasons for rescuing Claire in "Maternity Leave".

As for the picture of Ethan and Juliet, I have been suspecting that Juliet's flashback episode will show how she came to be involved in DHARMA/Otherville. I'm under the supposition that Ethan recruited her to the cause. Fortunately, we should resolve this quandry in February.

Here's a question for you though- what do you make of the remarkable parallels between the relationship between Locke and Eko and the relationship of Gilgamesh and Enkidu from the Sumerian "Epic of Gilgamesh"? If it is indeed a parallel that is meant to be insightful and give us clues, what would that tell us about Smokey and/or the Island itself? What could that tell us about the fate of Locke?

A bit of a sidetrack theory - about "Smokey."
I don't think there is anything supernatural about it. I don't think it's super-evolved humans, or a manifestation of fear, or anything like it. I think it's rather cut-and-dry, actually. Nanotechnology. Micro-robots. If you've ever read Michael Crichton's book "Prey" you know what I'm talking about.
Microscopic robotic cameras were invented years ago (did you ever have to sit through that Miracle of Life movie in junior high sex ed?). As technology has advanced they've gotten even smaller. You would never notice if a couple thousand of them were flying around together, but if you put a few million of these tiny cameras in a tight enough space, and they would appear more and more solid - hence the fluid, smoke-like appearance. All the micro-robots are linked so they can be controlled as a group. I think they are being used just like Danielle said - for a security system. I can't explain it completely, but if you read the book or even look up the idea of it on the web or something I bet you'll start to agree.
And if you think the Collective doesn't seem technologically advanced enough to use this kind of thing, remember that everything they say and everything they do is a lie. They pretended to be hillbillies. They have access to the outside world. Which makes me think that they know a lot more than they are letting on.

Unfortunately your hypothesis is WAY off base... They would not make such a far off story which will probably never be played out or shown. It would not make any sense for them to have a side story which wont be shown except in a flashback perhaps. The idea of Lost is simple, get lost.. lost in the experience, lost in the magic and mystery, lost in the hope that they find their way off the island. You need to step back and stop analyzing the facts to every minute detail. I like to use the term KISS (keep it simple stupid). The "Collective" is a group of people from Dharma (obviously), the reason they are on the island is obviously for research of some kind or to get away. In either event, Ben eluded to having nothing to do with taking down the plane, hence some other force must be involved, we did see Desmonds flash back, so if he was the one that took down the plane, then perhaps it was the Island who wanted them there. I think they luckily were pulled into the island, and The Collective then had to figure out what to do, they didnt want them to invade them, so they riged a plan , I think the plan is SIMPLE -- collect the good ones and add them to their collective so that their way of life can continue on. I think they have contacts on the mainland who provide them with information, this gives them an advantage as well as that 'wow' factor. This is why Ben wanted to make Jack WANT to help him. After the break, I think that there could actually be a combination of the "Collective" and the lost cast, to FACE the demon on the island that PERHAPS stranded both there in the first place, I think that eventually they will BOTH try to escape the islands grasp.

Well... I'm channeling Jeff here, we know there is a wide sweeping history to this island of people becoming stranded there at various times; it has been shown as well that this island was once inhabited with indigenous people, correct? This was the purpose of showing the four-toed statue. Keeping all that in mind, and assuming the Ben is telling the truth when he says he has lived on the island his entire life, it is fitting to expect that "the collective" is composed of people from all these different lines and their purpose is probably an ancient one as well; pre-dharma. Dharma was a big red-herring. Every wonder why benevolent scientists looking to create a peaceful compound for the sake of advancing science would be so heavily armed? They came to be there through occupation. That is why Dharma recruited former cia types. I, personally, refuse to believe that the story of the island begins with Dharma.

I definitely agree. The Island and DHARMA are two seperate entities and I think that's why we're sitting where we're at in the series right now.
Obviously, the producers intend to reveal secrets about the Island and about the Others. In season 1, there seemed to be more focus on the Island, at least with our Losties trying to figure out where the *bleep* they are and what they're up against. Season 2 began the shift away from the Island with the Hatch and introducing us to DHARMA, and inadvertantly making us think that perhaps this mysterious DHARMA and the Island are inseperably intertwined. But that's not the case.
At the end of season 2 our Losties were very clearly split along 2 plot threads. Jack, Kate and Sawyer were taken by the Others, while Locke, Charlie, Eko and Desmond were witness to the end of the Hatch. I've been viewing the end of the Hatch as the divorce between the Island and the Others, although we're yet to discover the Flame station and Mr. Patchy.
We now have two plot threads to go back and forth between. First there's learning more about the Others, which realistically won't last the rest of the series. By the end of season 3 we should have a good knowledge of who they are and what they're up to. The second plot thread is Locke's quest to the North. Some say this will result in him finding Otherville, but I'd like to think that it will involve revealing secrets of the Island (as the press releases said Eko's Jesus stick would give him a clue to unlocking the secrets of the Island). Locke's quest will likely go on until just about the end of the series because we'll need to have many questions answered before the end or else it will seem crammed and forced.
Another plot thread is Penny trying to find the Island, which will probably become more prominent after the questions about the Others die down.
The Others will teach us about DHARMA, Locke's quest will teach us about thenIsland, and at some point we'll discover the crossover where the Other came to the Island.

mlacigam, please pay attention to what the producers have said over and over:
Smokey is not a cloud of nanobots!
This has already been shot down several times, so put your mind into new avenues to explain our fine foggy friend.

Well put G-man... I'd suggest an alternative is possible as well: if Patchy is old school Dharma, Dharma could well teach us about the others.

I'm wondering if the two factions of the Others (the idea of which I like VERY much) are even less connected these days than they were when they first appeared. No children - other than Walt - have been directly associated with the Ben/Juliet group. Alex has been seen in their camp, but not as a friend or compatriot. She almost seems like an intentional saboteur.

I'm wondering if the Others were a cohesive group when the plane crashed; but the moment orders were given to target the child survivors, some of them defected in order to protect the children. Perhaps even led by Alex and Carl. The children's feet we've seen on the island certainly didn't look as thought they've been living in the washing machine equipped Others compound that Sawyer and Kate are in.

dude, anyone else notice that all Ben promised to do was get Jack off "this" island that doesn't mean anything, they are already on a different island all Ben would have to do was dump him on the original island, and he would have made good on his promise. What do you think Jack's reaction is going to be when he finds out this information from Ben. I mean Juliet, listening to the lonely music in the premier of season 3 obviously is homesick but can't go home. i think that Jack;s knowledge that they are on a diff island is just going to put a whole new twist on the game in Feb.

GO TO "EGOPLEX.COM" RIGHT NOW!!!! Now this guys got some neat theories. Click on the "Lost Index" on the home page.

By J.M. Berger of "Egoplex.com"

Fission and Fusion in LOST
In Chinese, Indian and Egyptian mythology, the world emerged from a primordial egg -- a spherical shape of undifferentiated chaos. Elements of this concept are present in virtually every creation myth recorded in every religion -- from Genesis to the Tao Te Ching and almost all points between. The Egyptian account, one of the earliest known to history, contains many elements familiar to people of all backgrounds:
The world had not been shaped by a god who had existed for ever and ever -- what had existed for ever and ever was chaos. Often that chaos is described in negative terms: it cannot be explained, it is not like anything, it is the negative of the present, existing world. It is what existed 'before the sky existed, before earth existed, before men existed, before death existed.' Yet chaos was not imagined as immaterial: it was a boundless ocean, called Nun. Darkness was on the face of the deep, for there was yet no sun. But within that dark, watery abyss lay, in a latent state, the primal substance out of which the world was to be formed.

-- Cosmos, Chaos and the World to Come

From the "undifferentiated" chaos a division then occurs -- often allegorized as an Island of order emerging from the sea of chaos.
At a certain moment -- it was known as 'the first time' or 'the first occasion' -- a tiny Island rose out of the water, the primordial hillock. ... The original chaos was an undifferentiated, unitary state, and the demiurge (creator god that emerges from the Nun) embodied the process of differentiation and definition. ... The demiurge brought light where there had been primordial darkness -- and in the light things could exist separately.

From there, things continue to branch into greater and greater differentiation. The Chinese have the most succinct view of this, with yin and yang separating and mixing into every more complex formations -- the concept is at the root of the i-Ching and also the root of the ba gua in the Dharma logo and the Taoist myth of creation is remarkably similar to that described above. Genesis, also, describes a vast abyss like a sea, and describes the first moment of creation as the entry of light into the world.

Even the theory of the Big Bang echoes this basic conceit -- prior to creation the universe exists as a black hole, in utter darkness, an undifferentiated spherical realm of superdense plasma -- an egg. The moment of creation ensues when this egg "hatches" in a burst of energy -- radiation and heat. "Let there be light."

From the very first moment of LOST, we are introduced to an image that serves to echo two crucial elements of the original state -- the egg shape and the introduction of light. Both are invoked when Jack's eye snaps open in the jungle.

We see the "cosmogonic egg" in the structure of the eye, and we see the Island first as a reflection in that eye. The story begins with the entry of light into the eye of a beholder.

I propose that LOST is a intended to be a microcosm or allegory of the universal creation story, following a story of existence from creation to collapse using the tools of this archetypical myth.

In other words, LOST is about differentiation (how a central unity becomes a universe of individual things) and about reunification (how individual things return to the source and become one in the end).

DIFFERENTIATION

We tend to think of the Genesis story of creation as starting with the introduction of light. But that isn't the whole story. The full act of creation is one of differentiation and division.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

If the story of creation is one of separation, the countervailing story is the story of apocalypse. After separation, comes reunification. That which was divided is eventually united again. In between these two points, as best articulated in Taoism and the i-Ching, the divided elements mix in various combinations until -- at the end -- the perfect balance is restored. (In the i-Ching, this perfect balance is only prelude to a new cycle of unity and separation, but that need not concern us just yet.)

From its opening moments, LOST immediately launches into themes of branching and splitting. This manifests in two ways -- first in the interpersonal dynamics of the characters, and second in the narrative structure of the show, which may also reflect some kind of temporal distortion at the heart of the Island's mystery.

LIVE TOGETHER, DIE ALONE

The theme of division and reunification appears over and over in the show's dynamics. The easiest manifestation of this can be found in the shifting alliances and relationships among the characters, where there is a constant reiteration of "dividing and joining."

At the start of the Island experience, the survivors were working at cross-purposes and individually waiting for rescue with very little real interaction. Jack definitively brought them together when he delivered his speech in "White Rabbit," which first explicitly expressed the overarching message that the castaways must choose between two approaches to live -- "Live together, die alone" vs. "Every man for himself."

The path of implementing "live together" has been far from simple. The 815ers are loners, liars and secret-keepers. By nature, they retreat to privacy and egocentric self-absorption, but they are repeatedly forced by circumstance to unite against external dangers.

Because they are reflexively secretive and resent being forced to cooperate, they frequently split off into smaller groups rather than trying to combat danger en masse. Each season's conclusion has featured groups of four in specific situations, with one member of the group being removed (or removing themselves) at a crucial moment.

S1 Opener -- The tail and fuselage passengers are split from each other.

S1 Finale -- Sawyer, Jin, Michael and Walt on the raft. Walt is removed by force.

S2 Opener -- The three remaining are split into groups of two (Sawyer and Michael) and one (Jin). Sawyer and Michael then split from each other, leaving individuals.

S1 Finale -- Jack, Kate, Locke and Hurley open the hatch. Hurley turns against the plan at the last moment.

S2 Opener -- Kate and Locke split from Jack on the question of entering the hatch. Kate and Locke are then separated by Desmond, again leaving individuals. Locke and Jack also initiate a new and perhaps show-defining split along the lines of science and faith.

S2 Finale -- Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley captured by the Others on the dock. Hurley is sent back to the camp.

S3 Opener -- The three separated 815ers encounter the Others and are further divided into groups of two (Kate and Sawyer) and one (Jack). In "Every Man For Himself" the group of two is further divided, and we end once more with individuals.

S2 Finale -- Locke, Eko, Desmond and Charlie in the hatch. Charlie separates himself from the rest, leaving three.

S2 Opener -- Another two and one break. Locke and Desmond emerge from the hatch together, Eko has been separated from them. Locke and Desmond immediately diverge leaving individuals again.

The "four minus one" dynamic is interesting if considered in terms of the numbers. In the hatch, the numbers were used to keep the magnetic anomaly from spiraling out of balance. Among the survivors, groups of four are repeatedly thrown out of balance by subtracting one. What are we to make of this? It's not yet entirely clear, but one thing is certain -- groups of four must compromise in decision-making or risk a two-two tie when it comes to a vote. When four minus one makes three, shifting power structures are more likely to emerge as each competing interest seeks that two-to-one advantage. In a two-to-one scenario, it's often easier to overrule than to compromise.

The Others stand in sharp contrast to the 815ers. Prior to the incursion of the 815ers, they seem to have operated and defined themselves as a mostly unified group. The influence of the Others on the 815ers was unifying -- the danger of the Others pressured the 815ers to define themselves as a group.

The 815ers are having the opposite effect on the Others -- their actions appear to be provoking an escalating division and an increasingly deep schism in the group's previous unity. That dynamic is likely to dominate the remainder of Season 3.

PAST AND FUTURE

The themes of differentiation and reunification are also embedded in the show's narrative structure. From the moment that Jack opens his eyes on the beach, the show separates into two narrative paths -- the Island and the Flashbacks.

The eye is the moment of "now" -- what you see before you, as it happens. From the experience of now, the most important split in our own reality emerges -- the split between past and future. This split is central to the narrative of LOST.

In "normal" human experience, we perceive the past and future as separated by an unbreachable one-way gate -- the past only ever leads to the future. LOST delves into the past, via memory, and into the future, via the passage of time on the Island.

In LOST, the barrier is even more formidable. The world is broken into two separate realms which are, at the beginning of the show, mutually and overwhelmingly exclusive -- the outside world and the Island.

From the beginning of the show, the Island was depicted as irrevocably separated from the outside world (a premise now purposefully fraying at the edges, as we shall see).

Not coincidentally, the outside world was also the realm of the past -- as seen in the flashbacks. But neither the past nor the Island are exactly what they first seemed to be.

The past is also subject to the divide-and-join dynamic seen in the Islanders' interpersonal relationships. This effect is responsible for the most mind-bending moments on LOST -- it is at the heart of what makes the show different and unique.

There are two elements to this effect -- character connections and Island manifestations.

The character connections are fairly straightforward, although they do pack an impact when they unfold. Their pasts are the "splitting" part of the occasion -- each survivor has an individual past timeline; these initially appeared to have joined into a unified story only at the moment of the plane crash.

What we have discovered since then is that the characters' split timelines are also unified in the past and in the outside world. Jack, Sawyer and Ana Lucia were linked through Christian. Shannon was linked to Jack. Hurley was linked to Libby who was linked to Desmond who was linked to Jack, and also linked to Kelvin who was linked to Sayid who was linked to Kate who was linked to Sawyer.

The past-present crossovers caused by the Island manifestations are even more shocking and puzzling than the character connections. In these, the natural -- and normally nonnegotiable -- division between past and present is bridged by a reunification that defies easy explanation and cannot be dismissed as coincidence (as one might argue regarding the character connections).

These reunifications include, most inarguably, the encounter between Kate and the black horse, and the connection between Eko and the drug plane. Other examples can be debated -- such as Sawyer hearing his past from the whisperers, or Jack hearing his father's voice over the intercom. But when taken in the broad context of everything that has happened on the show, it's hard to dismiss the more ambiguous incidents as being meaningless or simply hallucinatory.

COLLAPSE INTO SINGULARITY

All these different plot threads defy a single consistent explanation unless they are considered as part of one dynamic -- differentiation and reunification, separation and joning, fission and fusion. These are the yin and yang of LOST.

In light of all this, it would seem that LOST can only be moving toward one conclusion -- the final collapse of all separation and a return to primal unity, an apocalypse of sorts.

The first hints of this dynamic emerged in Season 2 and have continued into Season 3. We've seen hybrid fusions where different strands of the show simultaneously collapse. One of the most impressive examples came in "?" when Eko's brother Yemmi appeared in a vision experienced by Locke. There were multiple layers of joining contained in this one encounter.

* Past and present came together, as a figure from the past inexplicably appeared in the present.

* Eko and Locke came together as a figure from Eko's past mysteriously surfaced in Locke's mind.

* Present and future came together as Yemmi provided an important clue to discovering the 'Pearl' hatch.

* Outside world (represented by Yemmi) joined with Island world (represented by the hatch).

The incident was a harbinger of things to come. Desmond emerged from the hatch implosion at the beginning of Season Three with a yet-unexplained insight into the future -- either as a vision of the future or something stranger still. The present-future joining has been implicit in some of the visions experienced by various castaways, but it has now become an explicit element of the story with an outcome that has yet to be written.

With the first few episodes of Season Three, it has become clear that no aspect of the story on LOST is immune to the cycle of differentiation and reunification. It seems to me that the story can only move in one direction now -- collapse.

Collapse is the only logical outcome of the ever-increasing density of connections between the character backstories; between past, present and future; between "outside world" and "Island world."

The secret of the Island is that all the stories are one story converging on a point.

I predict that past, present and future will eventually come together in some manner of temporal disaster.

As far as the character connections, the likely outcome is that all the character backstories all trace back to single event -- some meta-event that unifies their individual stories as parts of a greater whole that has its origins outside the Island and before the crash.

And the characters themselves? Perhaps they are fated to remember their origin as a unitary self -- perhaps they do not have individual identities at all, or perhaps their individual selves will be somehow fused into a greater entity or metamind.

The question that remains is whether the collapse into singularity is the end of the story, or whether something lies beyond.

Singularities are strange by nature, whether they are black holes or seas of chaos, and they almost always create something new and strange to take the place of what went before. Will the collapse of all stories on LOST be the start of a new story?

I'm content to let that mystery be. For now. ;)

Hey everyone: the duties and joy of family and a weekend respite prevented me from engaging in the ongoing dialogue--sorry! I LOVE this conversation. My brain needs to adequately process all the ideas here. But MAN, do I love this energy, and this is why I love this show. We're probably ALL so very, very wrong--but I don't care. It's fun.

To you, G-MAN, who said: "Here's a question for you though- what do you make of the remarkable parallels between the relationship between Locke and Eko and the relationship of Gilgamesh and Enkidu from the Sumerian "Epic of Gilgamesh"?"

I gotta be honest--I'm not up on my Gilgamesh. Let me do my homework, and I'll get back to you. But knowing the Lost producers, I would have to think this kind of mythic heroic Lit has inspired them.

Have a great weekend.

These discussions are great and the show has generated so much speculation, its dizzying. I'm no expert, but I stand firm in my belief that Juliet is EVIL and Jack has been right (so far) not to trust her. Although it hasn't been said, I think Juliet has a lot of authority among the Collective. I also think about Sawyer's comment sometime back when he mentioned that Juliet (who always appears sweet and level-headed) would have no problem pulling the trigger on anyone. The comment was made quickly, but we shouldn't lose sight of Sawyer's ability as a con-man. We may want Juliet to be a heroine, but I have far more trust in Ben than her.

Jacob is a precog like Patchy and Desmond. They were all affected by the island and now represent the most powerful resources available to the competing factions on the island. The factions being the others camp and Patchys side of the island. There is a power struggle unfolding for control of the island which is the key to saving mankind. The others camp is beginning to fracture due to being manipulated from the outside world to get the project back on track without being given full disclosure of what led to the current state of affairs. Juliette dosen't trust Ben because she suspects the true purpose of Dharma was something sinister and Ben either knows what it is or is being manipulated into a violent course of action thinking it is for the greater good.

Goodwin was Ben's partner. That's why he wanted to kill Ana-Lucia and he infiltrated the Losties camp.

Alex's home was with Rouseau (that's where Picket sent her). Rouseau got Alex in exchange for the infiltration of Ben in the Losties camp.

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