God, The Devil and ‘Lost’
One of the big outstanding questions from the finale is: Who was that guy with Jacob? The mystery Man #2 is certainly a major player, having a longstanding relationship with Jacob and eventually killing Jacob by taking over Locke’s body.
One popular theory, and one that I’m inclined to believe, is that this man is none other than the Devil, and that Jacob is God.
Some people think this is just a metaphoric way of describing their dynamic, but to me, I think that Lost may be taking it literally. Jacob truly is God and his rival really is the personification of the Devil. It makes sense. He wore black while Jacob wore white. Jacob believes man can change while Man #2 belives human are corruptible, flawed beings. They clearly go back in their history, and Man #2 has an uncontrollable desire to kill Jacob.
Most importantly, the translation of Richard’s Latin answer to “What lies in the shadow of the statue?” was “He who will save us all” or “He who will protect us.” Since Jacob lives in the statue, this could easily refer to him as the salvation of mankind. Also, Jacob’s tapestr contains Greek text about how the gods should provide happiness and whatever a person’s heart desires. That sounds like God to me.
What do you think about this God and Devil Theory? Is it right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle? And for a more detail explanation of this theory, check out this article.
sorry john. but this is an ultra simplistic interpretation… especially after seeing all the egyptian references. to try to fit this into the judeo-christian of god and devil is downright silly. in fact, i had hoped that the fact that we finally learned that john locke was really dead would stop all of the “lost=christianity” bull. i’m not saying i don’t believe that the two characters are godlike. most likely gods. but it’s a duality that isn’t about god and devil. even though i would say now that jacob is the life side of the coin and the other man is the death side. is his name esau? hmmm… in fact, it brought a lot of things into focus (even though i was ultra-disappointed with how they ended the season. and that’s an understatement.) jacob seems to have dominion over the living and the other over the dead. now i believe that yemi wasn’t the monster but rather “esau”. i think that christian shepherd on the island has been “esau” the whole time. it has all been an elaborate game. the cabin was not jacob’s. it was “esau’s” and i can’t remember who did it (sayid?) but someone let him out. it also makes sense that hurley was able to see inside the cabin because of his power. thus, hurley and miles could have an important role in the 6th season. also, i’m starting to wonder about tptb’s statement that they knew where everything was going from the start. because if walt and aaron have nothing to do with the 6th season, i will end the lost experience with a deep resentment of cuse and lindelof. although walt may have been being trained (through jacob’s notes to richard) on what role he has in the future of the island. i hope so. because if they don’t touch back on that… i will be pissed. maybe i was wrong to outright call your theory wrong, because mine is similar. but please don’t call them god and the devil. they are 2 separate entities but they are not the christian god and devil.
Comment by hurleybird — May 14, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
I tend to agree with the last comment. While I am a Christian, I agree that this angle is too simplistic in nature. The concept of free will versus predestination has been played out through the centuries in many different religions and cultures. When Widmore mentions the war with two sides I believe it is this “war” between these two entities that he is talking about. There are many stories in Greek, Roman and Egyptian myth that play to the idea of gods messing with humans lives to prove a point to each other or to just have some fun because of boredom. Jacob wants to prove the “Lot- how many righteous do you need to save the city” argument. Jacob and this “Dark Man” (cabin boy, if you will) have been having the same argument that all of us have be having on the forums WHH, predestination or WH can change (free will) Just like Jacob said to Ben “You don’t have to do this” As in “They no not what they do”. Ben has many of the same questions that most of us have about the nature of God. By God knowing the future, do we really have free will?
One thing I really liked was Richard’s explanation of his age “Jacob made me this way” Possible punishment or gift of eternal life. Depends on your point of view about living forever.
Comment by Good — May 14, 2009 @ 7:58 pm
This episode reminded me of the old movie, maybe it was Jason and the Argonauts or something like that, wherein the gods, Zeus, etc, were toying with humans, setting obstacles in their path, influencing things from above, while having their soap opera amongst each other.
We have never been told, in the entire series, what the “Others” actually DO, or anything about them other than the fact that they exist on the island and resent anyone else being on it. That is all we know. Now we find that one of the Others, Jacob, a god or leader figure, can manipulate the outside world and the people in it, to his whim, and that he is opposed by at least one of the Others. We have MUCH to learn about the Others, and this, I think, will be the crux of the final season of Lost.
Comment by Glenn — May 15, 2009 @ 1:43 am
That was clash of the titans, Glenn
Comment by Queppy — May 15, 2009 @ 1:54 am
I, for one, am a little taken aback. Jacob has always been an interesting character to me, but I find it hard to believe his plot is the show’s “big picture.”
This concept has happened in lost before. When we saw Ben visit Widmore in “The Shape of Things to Come,” I remember getting the distinct feeling that something bigger was going on than just the 815ers crashing, that a war has been going on between Ben and Widmore.
Now, once again, it seems even more characters are just pawns in an EVEN BIGGER game between Jacob and Mystery Guy. If this is true…season 6 could feasibly have an entirely different cast than we are used to, as it seems no one matters but those directly fighting this Jacob War.
I’m also kind of angry about how the entire Dharma time was treated. I felt like the Dharma Initiative was such a big mystery on the show, but instead of answering questions, the losties lived amongst them and left. The subject probably won’t be visited again, as there is very little time to clear up the remaining confusion that’s been left on the show, so we are left more or less without much explanation about the various stations, the notebook dump from the pearl, and radzinsky’s suicide. It’s almost as though we got Dharma, but not the story we wanted. I am left feeling unfulfilled in a Star Wars prequels kinda way….the losties time in dharma answered questions most people weren’t answering.
Hopefully ALL loose ends get wrapped up, bring it home Darlton….and do a damn good job!
Comment by Frank — May 15, 2009 @ 6:06 am
The guy in black is the smoke monster and he is the guy impersonating Locke. Jacob is likely the personification of the egyptian god with the croc head.
That’s all I got, except that it is possible the Others have been corrupted by the guy in black for some time and have not really been following Jacob’s guidance, just guidance given in his name by a person or persons with their own agenda.
Comment by QuantumSam — May 15, 2009 @ 6:58 am
I’m fine that every season ends with an expanding universe and set of characters. In a way, it’s kind of like concentric circles of dichotomies (actually rather Hegelian for you philosophers out there). We had Jack/Locke (science/fate), Ben/Widmore, and now Jacob/nemesis. Since next season is the final season I’m guessing that this is where it ends.
Now, to the question at hand, I’m with the others who say that Jacob and the other guy are not God and the Devil but are perhaps “gods” (little “g”). Even the question of good vs. evil is one with fuzzy boarders in this show. Certainly neither Ben nor Widmore can be said to be good – both are extraordinarily ruthless. Likewise, Jacob heals Locke but participates in Sayid’s wife’s death and was he really the one giving orders to the others who orchestrated the purge or of Ben’s other nefarious activities? On the other side, watching the flames flicker in front of un-Locke after he kicked Jacob into the fire certainly made him look like the Devil but how do we know he’s pure evil?
Perhaps the biggest battle of all is free-will vs. destiny (yet another dichotomy) but even that, I am convinced, is not the controlling dichotomy and I’m think that it is fun, but ultimately foolhardy to look for one or to make strict demarcations. After all, the writers have continued to say that the show is about the characters not about the mythology and I think that in the minds of the writers that all the characters (including the so-called “gods”) are combinations of fate/free-will and good/evil.
Comment by El Stevo — May 15, 2009 @ 8:35 am
El Stevo, Jacob wasn’t ruthless in Nadia’s death. I see it as more heroic. The assassins were trying to kill Sayid, not Nadia, she was an innocent part of the hit to take out Sayid. Jacob needed Sayid, so he saved Sayid by asking for directions delaying him for the split second the car was going to hit him in.
Comment by BlutoSchmooto — May 15, 2009 @ 9:19 am
It would be surprising for the writers to do anything but leave Jacob and MMs real identities open ended. Half of what Lost is about is letting the audience fill in the gaps. If they came out and said explicitly that it was God and Satan it would alienate secular viewers. If it explicitly said they were Egyptian gods it would dash the hopes of monotheistic viewers. I expect it will be left simply that they are good and evil.
And, I expect to see more of Jacob. The whole finale he was orchestrating the events of the past five seasons, and I doubt it was an elaborate suicide attempt.
Comment by German — May 15, 2009 @ 11:32 am
Like Frank, above, I was rather disappointed with the Dharma arc this season. It was such an opportunity to explore the mysteries of their stations, purpose, etc. Yet we spent the majority of time with mundane areas like the security staff, kitchens, and car mechanics!
Comment by Greg — May 15, 2009 @ 3:07 pm
LOST is not about the Dharma Initiative. It’s primarily about those characters that are still alive from 815. They showed what they needed to show to get the story that they wanted to tell about the 815ers. Darlton has repeatedly stated that every question that every viewer has is not necessarily a question that they (the writers) intend to answer, because they aren’t “part of the story” that they want to tell.
Now, I think the general consensus of this thread is right: it’s too simplistic to say Jacob=god and MM=devil. I think it’s probably too simplistic to say Jacob=good and MM=bad. I mean, we’ve had Ben, for instance, since the second season and we still aren’t 100% sure whether he’s “good” or “bad”. What, exactly, is “good” and “bad”. Perhaps, instead of merely toying with us in keeping it a mystery of who is “good” and who is “bad”, they are trying to toy with us to question what we mean by “good” and “bad”.
I think it’s a great observation about Jacob having some kind of dominion over life and MM having some kind of dominion over death. I think it’s pretty obvious that MM/new Locke is smokey. They gave us some pretty big hints. The name of the episode: dead is dead. When Ben called smokey he tells Sun that what is about to come out of the woods (i.e., smokey) he can’t control, and then Locke walks out. When they are in the temple, when Locke just happens to disappear to find something to help Ben, only then does smokey show up, and then when smokey leaves, Locke mysteriously returns.
I was disappointed with the finale as well. I mean, it’s cool that they pulled back a bit and we see an even bigger fight than Widmore v. Ben. However, the bomb on the island isn’t that big of a surprise. We know that the island isn’t destroyed unless they want to do some kind of parallel time lines. Sure, I’m interested to see what they do with it, but it just was, well, underwhelming.
Comment by Zachary — May 15, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
Characters have been flipping from good and evil since the get-go on Lost… as we lean more our opinions of each character change… Until every side has been shown of each person’s true personality.. and history.. and destiny… for all we know, Jacob is the evil one and the O.G. “Other” is the good one… that Egyptian image of Smokey and the Beast shows the opposing forces on an even balance… One is not more powerful than the other (and if Jacob was the dominant entity, than it seems the loophole the OTHER has found through Locke’s host allows him to turn the tables!)
It’s appears that Jacob and the Other are discussing Human Nature at the beginning of the episode… Jacob brought the Black Rock to the island… Maybe they’ve been watching over the interactions of each human who lands on the island.. the smoke and the whispers must tie back to the early mythology of the island… Jacob and the other (represented by black smoke! Which appeared to Locke as a bright beautiful light at first… must of been trying to seduce John Locke to find that loophole!)
Comment by BSTMSTR — May 18, 2009 @ 7:23 am
He is NOT the devil.
I am so sick and tired of fans coming up with incredibly literal religious interpretations. Yes, the show is spiritual and borrows many of its themes from religions from all around the world and throughout history. However, just because they mention Thomas the Apostle doesn’t mean it’s a Christian show. Just because they feature an abundance of Egyptian mythology/religion doesn’t mean it’s an Egyptian show.
Jacob is not literally God and the other dude is not literally the Devil. That’d be stupid. They may represent a battle between good and evil but that’s just simply a theme that runs throughout Christianity. That’s all. The fans that believe the God/Devil interpretation are probably the same fans that thought the island was purgatory - and we all know now that that’s bogus.
Comment by matt — May 18, 2009 @ 8:41 am
re the death of Jacob… maybe it was not Locke who had to die in order to save his friends, but Jacob who had to die in order to save…well, somebody or something. This was Jacob’s loophole. The death/resurrection thing seems to be a standard requirement for saviors.
Comment by Mike B. — May 18, 2009 @ 1:10 pm
it seemed like jacob knew that ben would kill him and didnt do anythng to stop it or seem to want to stop it he jst let it happen
Comment by rick — May 21, 2009 @ 11:24 am