Your Voice: A ‘Back to the Future’ Reference?
Submitted by thedtrain
I’d like to throw a little spin on the whole "where is the island now" debate:
In terms of the island’s newest location, a lot of people are saying it moved in "space and time." I agree, but only on the time element. The coordinates of the island haven’t changed. You still have to travel on the 305 or 325 or whatever bearing to get safely to and from the island. But the thing is now you can’t see it anymore, because it’s in a different time… in the future! Here’s a connection I just thought of and I’m not sure has been made before:
Think about the Back to the Future movies (in particular, the first one). Remember the scene when Einstein is in the Delorean and time-travels 1 minute into the future. Doc and Marty are standing there talking about everything and then Doc checks his watch and back comes the Delorean, complete with flame tracks and ice cold temperatures. (And how interesting is this parallel: the car is cold, having come from the future, and the cold "tundra" of the frozen donkey wheel used to move the island. Hmmm….) Anyway: The point is that Einstein traveled 1 minute into the future, and it took Marty and Doc 1 minute in time to "catch up" to his time frame. You couldn’t see him, the Delorean, or anything else until the present time line caught up with them because he wasn’t there yet. The car comes back to the exact spot where it left them just a minute prior.
So, when Ben pushes the wheel, all of us at home, and the O6 in the ‘copter, see the island seemingly vanish into thin air. Well, it did… and it didn’t. The physical location of the island HAS NOT CHANGED. But it’s location in the year, date, time, etc… has changed. It vanished in front of the O6’s eyes and I believe went forward in time! I beg to differ with the theories that it’s in the past, pre-Dharma.
This is just one element to the show and by no means explains everything that LOST has to offer. I feel like we will never get just the one "ah-ha!" moment from Darlton. It will be a series of those types of moments.
What are your thoughts?
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Hmmm. If the island moved into the future by let’s throw a random time out there, 3 years, then what is preventing Widmore or the 06 from returning to the island after the 3 years have passed since they knew its location?
Widmore says he can’t find the island because Ben keeps moving it. Find is a great word to use if you don’t know the location, but if you know the location of the island and it is just not there in present time I’m not sure “find” or “hide” is the word Widmore would have used if he knows exactly where the location is. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to say “I can’t find the island you keep time shifting it” or “dimensionally shifting it?” I think so, I don’t buy the time travel, forward or back, theories.
Comment by blutoschmooto — June 30, 2008 @ 7:26 am
The problem with moving the island to the past is that it also stays in the present–because once the past catches up with the present, the island is still there. Only moving it to the future would remove it from view–but, again, that also has problems since Widmore can just try again once that time has passed. Moving the island in time, therefore, doesn’t make sense.
Comment by Bob — June 30, 2008 @ 10:33 am
The bunny moved forward in time, not space. But Ben apparently moved forward in time and also moved in space. It makes the most sense that the island moved both in time and space. If it moved into the past, logic would reason that there would then be at least two islands, assuming it also moved in space. Many people talk about how time travel would cause people to become healed if they had an illness. I don’t see this as a logical result of time travel. But Darlton’s vision of time travel is different than mine.
Comment by Larry — June 30, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
If the island moves back to the dharma time, then will it be visited by dharma. In my reasoning if any object is sent into the past to a different location, but in a time when the object did exist: Then there would be TWO of that object. So if this copy from the future is visited by Dharma, then all of the dharma stations would already be constructed. This makes no sense. In other words, simple time travel would not cause the island to go through a time loop. Time travel and a time loop are two very different things. By definition a time loop would just keep recurring.
Comment by Larry — June 30, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
I agree it makes no sense that it’s in the past… but my reasoning for the whole “into the future” thing is because it makes sense for a lot of things on the show.
The reason Widmore isn’t able to go back is probably because he was once there, just like Ben and hasn’t figured out his way back to it. I’m not sure why he was there or when he was there, but that’s irrelevant.
I think this theory helps explain how the Black Rock got there, how much Hanso and his descendants really played a part in this whole thing, and how it’s all connected back to a central theme. Here’s a bit of an expansion on this “BTTF” theory:
When the Black Rock is found crashed in the middle of the island, everyone was like… “WTF is a ship doing in the middle of a jungle?” Here’s how it happened: At some point, the island needed to be moved… I don’t know why, but I’m sure we’ll find out. And it was up to the native inhabitants of the island (who created the hieroglyphics on the walls and the 4-toed statue) to do so. Well, when they moved it, they moved it forward in time. To the time of 1840-1852 or somewhere in there… whenever the Black Rock set sail from. However, when the move happened it expelled everyone on the island. Essentially, the island is the future, just waiting for the “present time” to catch up to it. Thus, when the Black Rock is sailing, just minding its own business… BAM! Island pops up out of seemingly nowhere.
Since we pretty much can assume the ship was captained by Magnus Hanso and his remains are somewhere on the island, (according the blast door map) it’s easy to assume he gave his journal to someone… who got off the island. Who is this mystery person? I have to guess (just because LOST is all about intertwined connections) that it’s someone related to the DeGroots. The crew of the Rock and Magnus Hanso searched around and eventually observed and documented the island’s powers/smokey, etc… But the powers started wrecking havoc for the crew of the Black Rock and Magnus realized it was time to bolt. But like a good captain, he couldn’t leave his crew. So he sent the DeGroot family member off the island to try and get help and also sent him with his journal with specific instructions to get it to his family. Particularly is son/grandson (being that Alvar is the great grandson, it’s easy to assume this is who he instructed to give it to.)
just some other stuff I’ve worked out. it’s got a lot of work to go, but it’s a start and a potential theory to explain the Black Rock and everything. I’m working on the rest of the theory, hopefully have something more soon.
Thanks for your inputs.
Comment by thedtrain — June 30, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
I tried to stop it before it added the last post, so forgive me for adding it twice, but I had other information to add
I agree it makes no sense that it’s in the past… but my reasoning for the whole “into the future” thing is because it makes sense for a lot of things on the show.
The reason Widmore isn’t able to go back is probably because he was once there, just like Ben and hasn’t figured out his way back to it. I’m not sure why he was there or when he was there, but that’s irrelevant.
I think this theory helps explain how the Black Rock got there, how much Hanso and his descendants really played a part in this whole thing, and how it’s all connected back to a central theme. Here’s a bit of an expansion on this “BTTF” theory:
When the Black Rock is found crashed in the middle of the island, everyone was like… “WTF is a ship doing in the middle of a jungle?” Here’s how it happened: At some point, the island needed to be moved… I don’t know why, but I’m sure we’ll find out. And it was up to the native inhabitants of the island (who created the hieroglyphics on the walls and the 4-toed statue) to do so. Well, when they moved it, they moved it forward in time. To the time of 1840-1852 or somewhere in there… whenever the Black Rock set sail from. However, when the move happened it expelled everyone on the island. Essentially, the island is the future, just waiting for the “present time” to catch up to it. Thus, when the Black Rock is sailing, just minding its own business… BAM! Island pops up out of seemingly nowhere.
Since we pretty much can assume the ship was captained by Magnus Hanso and his remains are somewhere on the island, (according the blast door map) it’s easy to assume he gave his journal to someone… who got off the island. Who is this mystery person? I have to guess (just because LOST is all about intertwined connections) that it’s someone related to the DeGroots. The crew of the Rock and Magnus Hanso searched around and eventually observed and documented the island’s powers/smokey, etc… But the powers started wrecking havoc for the crew of the Black Rock and Magnus realized it was time to bolt. But like a good captain, he couldn’t leave his crew. So he sent the DeGroot family member off the island to try and get help and also sent him with his journal with specific instructions to get it to his family.
On the island: Magnus is the only one that dies and with the magnetic anomalies of the island, it’s likely his crew are the original “Others.” Richard not aging, (none of the other ones seem to age either) is because of the properties of the island… whatever they may be. Magnus is killed by smokey, much like Eko was because he didn’t atone for something he did… whatever that may be… it was just “his time.”
So he took off (the DeGroot guy) and somehow got back to the main-lands and shared his experiences, which most of them were well documented in the journal. He then proceeded to get this information to the Hanso family members. Alvar isn’t born yet, it’s only 1852 (or so) for pete’s sake. It’s Alvar’s dad(who is very young at this point) that gets the journal and info from this person who got off the island. Then the DeGroot person dies and leaves all the secrets with the Hanso family. Alvar is then “waiting” for the DeGroots to make their move from the University of Michigan and start their genetic research project. He recognizes the last name, realizes this is his chance to get back to the place that’s been a fabled part of his family and finances everything for them. The result? The Dharma Initiative.
It’s kinda scatter brained, but just some other stuff I’ve worked out. it’s got a lot of work to go, but it’s a start and a potential theory to explain the Black Rock and everything. I’m working on the rest of the theory, hopefully have something more soon.
Thanks for your inputs. if anything, it helps keep us busy during the “off season” of LOST.
Comment by thedtrain — June 30, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
from the very beginning, that’s what i think has happened.
it’s not that complicated really, the island moved to 10 months later, at the same place. and ben moved to the “sister spot” of the island which is the desert. that’s all.
Comment by onur — June 30, 2008 @ 3:15 pm
my theory-
back in season 1 when we saw the black rock, i thought that maybe it got there because of global warming etc (tsunami?) …now after the last episode i think this is right….and im suprised no-one else has mentioned what i thought all along…the island has been moved forward say a year (or whatever) in time and as we all know, global warming is making the sea level rise-so the island sank naturally, over time…and this would also explain why jack saw it SINK…if you look it didnt disappear it sort of sunk and disappeared with a pop (with a ripple) . So maybe the island is now under water!!! this could also link in to the looking glass theme etc!
Comment by Gra — June 30, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
I think Richard Alpert is a ghost like Charlie or Christian. That is why he doesn’t age.
Richard Alpert was surprised and ecstatic that young John Locke picked up the knife when he visited him as a youngster. That meant he was a proponent of killing at all costs to save the island as the knife represents war. Turned out Richard was wrong and that is why he gives John Locke Sawyer’s file. Locke isn’t a killer and won’t kill his own Dad so he has Sawyer do it. Had Alpert not given Locke the file, Locke would not have killed his own Dad and would never be let in the circle of the others. Ben said Locke had to prove himself and he didn’t do what he was supposed to. Alpert has been pushing Locke towards the Other leadership on his assumption from Locke’s childhood meeting. Locke isn’t this killer though Alpert thinks he is. This is how the chaos will start, Alpert picked the wrong leader, Locke was not meant to lead.
Where are people getting these theories on how far the island moved in the past or present? Can you please provide something more concrete than guesses? Simply stating “I think it moved 4 days and 12 months into the future” is pulling numbers out of nowhere. It is much better for the reader to follow if you put “I think it moved 4 days and 12 months because so and so said such and such and the rocket had such and such delay which multiplied over the x amount of days 815 was on the island would have come out to 4 days and 12 months.”
Comment by blutoschmooto — June 30, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
The Island moved 10 months into the future.
Because that’s how far Ben traveled.
How people can follow the show so closely and miss one of the very very FEW dates ever given in the dialogue on the series is beyond me. Why the need for guessing at all?
OTHERWISE, if it also moved in space, that opens up a can of worms.
Because there is no logical connection between what happened to Ben and then trying to correspond that to the Island, say moving back in the past.
Coupled with that, if you say it ‘moved’ 2 years in the future you run into the same conundrum. Why did Ben only go 10 months?
The reason they showed Ben end up in the Tunisian Desert with that outift on and the cut on his arm with the baton etc. was to let you in on where the Island went.
Comment by Dogballs — July 1, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
I have an issue with time travel
If you travel forward in time but you are stationary in the same place - do people who are standing beside you still see you or do you dissapear?
I mean if you move forward say 2 years does your body just dissappear for the 2 years?
Comment by eamonn — July 3, 2008 @ 4:30 am
to eamonn:
it’s like the BTTF reference.
Einstein the dog didn’t move in “space” because he came back to the same, exact spot he left only 1 minute prior.
he “disappeared” to on-lookers, but in reality, he’s just time-shifted 1 minute ahead.
Same is happening with the island and the people that are leaving it, coming to it, etc… there’s a time shift happening… not a SPACE shift.
at least… thats this guy’s opinion
Comment by thedtrain — July 3, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
don’t forget that Earth spins on his axis… so if you move in time, and you reappear in the exact same spot, it wouldn’t be that strange if you actually appeared in a different part of the world (for it kept spinning during time)
Comment by Stefano — July 4, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
I think there is time and space shift at the same time. Ben travelled 10 months to the future and ended up in Tunisia, Africa.
Charlotte found the polar bear skeleton and the hydra colar at the Sahara Desert.. in Africa - this is a clear indication of a time and space travel ending up at a close proximity to Ben’s appearing spot.
A plane (with Yemi’s dead body) took of from Africa - Nigeria to ?? some time ago and seems to end up on the island. Which I presume during another time-leap. So I say at the time of the crash, island should have been rather close to Nigeria or on the course of the flight (which can not be further than the limits of Africa)
Both Ben and polar bear might have returned to the exact space coordinates if there was no earth underneath them. So like Stefano’s comment, I think world’s rotation has an important effect. So time travel brings you back where you belong in space.. But earth moves underneath your feet in the mean time.
So my presumtion is that island moved close to Africa (Mediterranean or South Atlantic), where during last time leap, the plane that took of from Nigeria fell too.
I think Damon and Carlton have been poking the Africa element more than a few times into our eyes for sometime now and there should be a reason for that.
Comment by Kemo — July 11, 2008 @ 11:41 pm