Your Voice: Explanation of Dharma, Richard, Locke and The Vault
Submitted by Saligia
I have a possible explanation of where/when the Island has been moved to, how the show will resolve mysteries of the Dharma Initiative and the Island’s past, and how and why the ageless Other, Richard came to visit Locke in ’60s as a child.
I believe since the Dharma days, the Island has been moved twice. Once we saw in the season finale, and once around the time of the Purge, to prevent any outside, worldly powers to interfere with the Others. That time it was moved via the Frozen Donkey Wheel, via the polar bears that ended up in Tunisia (though the first time, the Vault in the Orchid wasn’t broken, hence why the bears did it).
The Island, now, has been moved in space to a new location (unknown), but the Island also traveled in time into the 1960’s-70’s AKA The Dharma Era. That is how the Dharma Initiative will be explained; it’s happenings, experiments and more. Everyone on the Island will end up in the Dharma era, including Locke, who just began his leadership of the Others. But somehow, within the next three years that pass on the Island, Locke will die, and in a way to try to break the spell of course correction / destiny, Richard will use the Vault in the Orchid to travel to and from the Island (since he didn’t necessarily have access to the Galaga (submarine) then). Richard will attempt to recruit Locke as he is growing up to try to get him to the Island, in order to prevent his death when Locke leaves the Island in 2007.
Thoughts?
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However, this theory then means that Alpert knew the importance of John Locke in relation to the island in the flashbacks to John’s childhood in ‘Cabin Fever’, having participated in the Others under Locke’s leadership. If this is true, then why is he testing Locke, and not making more of an effort to recruit him into Mittelos/The Island?
Comment by Uncommon Valor — June 24, 2008 @ 7:23 am
You say that the island was moved following the ‘purge.’ Are you talking about when Ben took over the ‘Others?’ If this is what you are, in fact, saying, how do you explain the continued supply and food drops from the Dharma initiative?
Comment by MDunn — June 24, 2008 @ 7:31 am
Richard going to recruit John and testing him makes sense with this theory. Richard gets mad when John picks the knife, for choosing the path of being a knife wielding hunter will lead to his ultimate death. Had John picked, lets say, the book of laws, Richard will be much happier for it will not lead to John’s death and the island would continue to live on and be in a great state.
Comment by Herb — June 24, 2008 @ 7:37 am
you know, i had this very same theory, though i became lost (lol)…i figured the the losties would be what were known in the dharma days as the hostiles, though, when ben went to their side, surely he would know the losties before they crashed? and also, wouldnt that make a time loop? with the dharma stations existing in the ‘present’, if they were sent back VIA a dharma station, surely time would repeat itself…and also, i thought, how would the lostie/hostiles get off the island to crash back onto it, and why then did they not recognise the island upon their return…god. this makes my head hurt. it would explain the whole dharma thing very neatly as theyre running out of time to do that, but there are so many problems with that…i love all these theories, however out there, but i do think that we will never ever guess…we must just wait and see…but in the meantime, these theories keep lost in our hearts and in our minds. aw.
Comment by philoceanic — June 24, 2008 @ 9:19 am
Too much emphasis on John. Most of the characters have interrelations (Jack/Claire, Locke/Sawyer, and so forth). What if Alpert in reality visited all of them, not just Locke? What if this is what it means to be on “the list”?
Comment by Tom Rod — June 24, 2008 @ 11:02 am
I’m not 100% sold on this theory, but I do like a couple of the elements you’ve suggested:
- The Island was moved at the time of the Purge.
- One or more polar bears were used to do it, explaining how one ended up dying in Tunisia (well, not entirely explaining because we still don’t understand the mechanism).
The rest of your theory, including the island moving back in time, is neat, but not as solid (yet?).
The polar bear observation certainly explains a little bit more about Charlotte’s reaction in her flashback in Confirmed Dead. When she found the polar bear, we all assumed by her actions that she knew where it had come from and why it was in the desert. Within the context of your theory, this indicates she was aware of the Purge and now understood a bit more about where the island was. Perhaps her analysis of the polar bear led to the discovery of the island’s 2004 location, leading to the Freighter mission.
Comment by Ed Holden — June 24, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
This theory - and many others - albeit stimulating intellectual food for thought - assumes that the Losties and the Others are “time-traveling” in some sort of out of body experience. While in astral projecting, one may leave the body in one point of time and send the consciousness to another, there is still a linear traveling from set point A to set point B. One is still stuck inside of the phenomenon of time and bound by it’s Laws.
The characters on Lost, per Damon and Carlton, are becoming “unstuck” in time, not traveling in time (with or without their bodies). They have lost their ability to stay safe and secure in this linear dimension.. OR.. they have freed themselves from being bound by Time (as in “Only a fool is bound by Time and Space” and “Jacob loves you”).
I have recently finished re-reading Catch 22 (I read it first in college way back when, and I swear it was a different story then, lol) and, since it is amoung the books used in the story of Lost, I really can’t recommend it enough. It really puts a handle on what being unstuck in time is like.
It is not the ability to set a goal to return to a certain point in time, past or future. It is like a ball bouncing randomly within a cave - hitting this point and then that point . Writing this, I think that maybe a better analogy is the “Self” is really the center of its universe, while Life is bouncing around with different moments jumping into focus. BSG fans will understand what Billy Pilgrim understood as he (once again) knowingly approached the events of his death. This (moment)always has been, this(moment)always will be.
It is like a child having the same favorite story read to them as they go to bed. No matter how many times you might want Snow White to refuse the apple, you know she always will take her bite. No matter how many times I rewatch season 2 and hope that Sayid will prevent Shannon walking into the path of Ana Lucia’s bullet, she always will . (that Sayid is quite the fickle Don Juan isn’t he? Only instead of loving them and leaving them, he loves them, watches them die and moves on to another lady. Perhaps his fickle love obsessions are his undoing, not his past as a torturer from which he has already sought and accepted forgiveness - that’s another story, though. Back to the point at hand with another example…) Libby will always die even though I shout at the TV “forget the *&(* blankets.” Roland will always seek the tower and Jake will always find The Rose. So Be It.
In Catch 22, the hero, Billy Pilgrim, remembers his whole life - from birth to death and inbetween. However, I think that not everyone remembers these different events as they pop in and out of focus. People in a 3D world try so hard to deny anything that does not fit within 3 dimensions. Desmond remembers parts, and so he stays relatively sane. Daniel had to lose alot of sanity until he started being able to remember the events that keep popping into his focus. Of all the Lost characters we have come to know, I think only Richard and Ben have a high degree of remembering the events in their life and having a good handle on what is happening. And perhaps, it is some “higher being” or dimensional force, that changed the rules when Keemy killed Alex. Because what always was and was always supposed to be, suddenly was no longer.
That, I believe, is why all the theories of going back into time via “consciousness traveling” to change things or course correct can’t be true. Creating a change or preventing a change from another point in time requires a connection to time - being stuck to the fabric of time. Now changing one time from another time can happen, and I believe does happen, in Lost and in our world. But not by becoming unstuck in time.
Coming unglued from the timeline of one’s life is a random experience outside of one’s control. If one can accept this as being “freed from oppression” then one can gain incredible knowledge and peace. However, if one cannot grasp what is happening, then being trapped within this random life of unconnected moments surely must be madness.
Comment by itsMrsB — June 25, 2008 @ 8:35 am
itsMrsB, your analysis of Catch-22 is interesting, as I once read that book many years ago. You should consider checking out Slaughterhouse 5, whose main character, Yossarian, is also bounced around uncontrollably - albeit in war rather than in time. Yossarian is stationed on an Italian island during World War II and has to navigate beurocratic incompetence while avoiding being killed in battle. The book was referenced briefly in Lost when Daniel was conducting the mouse experiment and borrowed Yossarian’s quote about the enemy trying to kill him.
Comment by Ed Holden — June 25, 2008 @ 3:18 pm
At minimum the island was moved twice since the Dharma purge. Once to hide the island from Dharma’s parent company and the second time to hide it from Widmore since the freighter had pinpointed the island. I would hope the island has been moved more times though. If Widmore is serious about finding this island, Ben would probably have had to hidden more times than 2. That might make more sense for how Rosseau’s crew was abandonded without getting help. If a research ship was lost in a specific area, wouldn’t someone search for it? Perhaps the island moved from the search area. We still don’t know if moving the island has any short or long term effects on the inhabitants. What if that was what made Rosseous crew go insane? Look at the guys on the freighter who went insane from the time sickness. I think we’ll see that some people aren’t healthy when the island shifts.
Polar Bears moving the wheel? Still seems hokey to me though it would be perfectly viable, just my opinion. I’d prefer to think the bears were there for research (maybe towing stuff out of the center of the island since mules would freeze?) or were a result of the island being in a cooler climate on a previous move similar to how the Black Rock wound up there.
I cannot accept a theory of time travel back to the 60s/70s. It is much to complicated to be going back in time. I think MrsB’s theory is simpler and more along the lines of what the writers might do. They have established that people can become time stuck and that dead people like Charlie are dead, but they are also here. Seems to me like they are not bound by time and space.
Comment by blutoschmooto — June 25, 2008 @ 5:52 pm
OOops, I messed up bigtime. Ed, it was Slaughterhouse 5 that I was raving about. Other than the fact that I ordered Catch22 the other day, I have no idea why I mixed up the titles. But I did.
So, everyone, please substitute Slaughterhouse 5 for Catch 22 in my post a few spaces above, while I go hide somewhere. (Anyone know of a secret island I can slink off to?)
Comment by itsMrsB — June 27, 2008 @ 3:24 am
There is no question that Desmond was unstuck in time during the ‘Constant’
There is no question that Ben pushed the donkey wheel and ‘traveled’ PHYSICALLY to the Tunisian Desert.
Now if you want to assert that Ben pushed the wheel and then left the Island in October of 2005 and ended up in Tunisia in Oct 2005 (same day), that’s fine. You’ll then have to explain why the Oceanic 6 were rescued 108 days after the crash which would be January 2005 and Ben, at the same time is residing 10 months ahead down in the chamber below the Orchid. Doesn’t seem to jibe, huh?
So, following the logic is just follwing the logic is just following what was showed is just exactly what was showed.
Ben went forward, physically in time. However you want to parse and theorize that, have at it.
As for polar bears pushing the wheel, it makes sense into you apply a little logic.
How did they get the polar bear down the elevator? To the capsule, throught the little opening, to the other side of the wall? Ok, say they used a tranquilizer to tame the bear. How does it physically FIT? In the elevator and in the pathway from the Orchid vault to the wheel? It’s just kind of non-sensical to do this.
More realistically, it would have to be done by a human, otherwise there is no quarantee that the polar bear even had room enough to room around to ‘tug’ the rope on the donkey wheel. In short, it’s not neccessary, at all.
Comment by The Storm — June 29, 2008 @ 1:09 am
I used to be certain that the island had to have been moved after the Purge to hide it from Dharma/Widmore, however I have seen numerous people bring up the fact of the Dharma cargo drops. The island can’t be hidden from Dharma if they’re dropping supplies on it. It makes me wonder if Widmore predates Dharma and it was moved after him but before Dharma. Maybe the Purge wasn’t just killing all of Dharma on the island but also included some sort of corporate takeover in the “real world” too?
Comment by dave — July 1, 2008 @ 11:55 am
I believe that the island has different headings that lead to varying time differences. The heading that farady and the losties take is the path of least resistance so to speak. It is the path that shows the least time difference. The Dharma drops, I theorize are actually from a different trajectory and therefore subject to a larger time gap from the outside. I theorize that indeed the drops are sent from a time when Dharma existed and the time delay just makes them show up on the island fifteen years later.
Comment by chad — July 4, 2008 @ 11:30 am