Your Voice: “He Wants Us to Move the Island”
Submitted by Zatinoff
“He wants us to move the island.”
The last line of last week’s episode, “Cabin Fever”, intrigued me and got me thinking about what that could possibly mean. These are the tenets on which my theory is based:
First, LOST rarely literally follows through on their ads or sneak peeks. (For example: Claire thinking of a way to get off the island in Season 3 and, in this episode, Locke’s conversation with Horace Goodspeed actually occurring in reality). This leads me to believe that Locke’s final line in this episode is not to be interpreted literally. So what could his words possibly mean? Well, if the island is not going to be moved geographically (as the producers would undoubtedly like us to believe) it would have to be moved temporally, or moved through time.
Next, LOST’s writers have worked hard this season to establish that the island has a consciousness. This was hinted at in previous seasons (Desmond being unable to leave the island’s vicinity, the idea that the monster is a force of the island), but was directly addressed in “Meet Kevin Johnson” when Tom explained to Michael that the Island will not allow Michael to kill himself. In addition, this idea was explored in this very episode, in which Keamy attempts to shoot Michael multiple times. This leads me to believe that Michael himself still has “work to do.”
Third, LOST’s concept of time travel is in no way a traditional understanding of the phenomenon. Usually, time travelers transport their entire being – body and mind – from one period of time to another. In LOST, travelers can only transport their mind. This is clearly explained in “The Constant.” When Desmond is rocketed to the past both present-day Sayid and the 1996 Faraday note that Desmond’s body remains in their current time, albeit unconscious.
Therefore, synthesizing these various observations, I believe that Jacob has asked Locke to move the Island through time. While the full concept of how to transport one’s consciousness has not been fully explained, I believe that it is Locke’s job to transport the Island’s consciousness, to another time, safely out of Widmore’s grasp. What this means, physically, I do not know. Perhaps the entire Island will disappear into another time period, or merely the inherent nature of the Island that Ben seems so eager to protect. Also, I do not know if this means that everyone on the Island would be transported to this other time period or if they would remain in the present.
Some final thoughts: In “The Shape of Things To Come”, Ben is mysteriously transported to the Sahara Desert. My first thought upon seeing this was that he had transported his consciousness to this new time period. His appearance of shock would make sense as Desmond responded similarly in “The Constant.” However, in Desmond’s case, he was switching between two different versions of his body, one in the present-day (2004) and one in 1996. My question is: Why would a version of Ben’s body be lying in the middle of the Sahara Desert? Also, does this explain why each time we see Richard Alpert, no matter what time period (present-day, three years ago, fifty years ago) he is always the same age?
Please respond. I’m looking for answers!
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this has been said many times, but i believe that there are at least two different ways of “time travelling.” one is desmond’s and faraday’s consicousness shifting, and the other is teleportation, which is what ben and alpert, and maybe others, have been doing, because like you said, in the case of desmond, he only shifted to places that his body already was located. ben’s body isnt likely to be lying in the desert, and surely alpert doesnt look the same over the span of multiple decades
Comment by Dusty — May 13, 2008 @ 9:17 am
I agree with Dusty. Go to youtube and view the “orchid” video - which shows proof that two of the same beings can exist at the same time (in this case, rabbits). However, the Dharma people in the video make sure that the same rabbits don’t see each other which may cause problem.
That said; I agree with Zatinoff. Land moves over time; so perhaps bringing the island back a few thousand years (or forward?) would literally move the island accordingly.
Comment by THinIL — May 13, 2008 @ 10:01 am
I think that what may happen is not that the island will physically move, or even that it will move through time, but rather that the “portal” or “wormhole entrance” which allows one to reach the island moves. Widmore has found the location of this portal at the end of Season 3. But we now know from Ben’s FF that “he’ll never find it” again as Ben said. This was when it was clear to me that Ben had succeeded in hiding the island again, out of Widmore’s reach. And this is why Jack was flying back and forth over the Pacific to places far apart from each other, like Tokyo and Sydney, because he too knew the portal had moved and he was hoping he would find it again by chance. This precludes the idea that the island moved into another time; otherwise how would Jack hope to find it merely by flying around the Pacific?
It really makes no sense to say that island moves through time. A piece of land like the island exists in space and in the past, present, and future. If you move it into the future, what will happen to the version of the island that already exists in that future? Or if you move it into the past, same question. Will the island just land on top of itself when it comes out of the time warp?????
Comment by BobW — May 13, 2008 @ 10:28 am
What if the island has been moved before? Would that explain the presence of the polar bear in Tunisia? Do they have to keep moving the island (and when I say island, I don’t literally mean the LAND itself, but its inherent qualities) to different locations?
Comment by Hask — May 13, 2008 @ 10:31 am
I also had the thought about the island moving through time. Which, if true, could give a double meaning to Jack telling Kate at the end of Season 3, “We have to go back!”
Comment by Jimmy C — May 13, 2008 @ 10:57 am
I agree with BobW. You can’t really move it through time. That just doesn’t make sense (as if any of this does). It just sounds cool to say its moving through time instead of space. Anyways, to me it seems like the island is always moving and maybe this also affects the way island time is related to outside time. I think a big clue to this is the fact the rocket showed up 31 minutes later than it should have, but the doctor’s body showed up a day before it was supposed to.
Comment by AnotherOther — May 13, 2008 @ 11:05 am
I was thinking that maybe they are talking about changing the electromagnetic properties of the island. The island is already almost impossible to find, if they can use this orchid station to distort whatever properties this island has, then they wouldn’t be able to use the directions that they have now to go back and forth from the island. Maybe that is also why Ben told Widmore that he’ll never find it now because even if he knows the area where that actual island is, he doesn’t have coordinates to lead him to it.
Comment by tomcat — May 13, 2008 @ 11:57 am
AnotherOther has a point about the doc’s body and the rocket. I was also wondering about the electromagnetic properties like tomcat suggested. If the failsafe key Desmond turned caused the plane to crash, perhaps it can be reversed?
Just thinking out loud, what do you all think?
Comment by Alaine — May 13, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
When Michael left, the bearing Ben told him to follow was 325. Now the bearing thats being used by the choppers and the boat is 305. Could there be a numbers related, purple sky event that makes the bearing something different?
Comment by OL — May 13, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
I don’t know if anyone here has seen that elaborate time loop theory this guy has out on the net but there’s one aspect he raises that I think might be relevant.
He asserts that the button pressing every 108 minutes was designed to work with what ever time travel capability this island has. He believes that every 108 minutes the island was being reset in time basically freezing it in time while the rest of the world passed it by - essentially sealing it off from the outside world (and remember Alaine, it wasn’t the failsafe that brought down the plane, that was after all the Losties were on island - that happened when Desmond didn’t press when out w/ Kelvin).
Therefore in the past they were ‘moving’ the island ever so slightly, possibly, every 108 minutes. Once they lost that ability w/ the Swan implosion the island became visible - hence the guys in the south pole. I think what they may mean is Locke, who destroyed the old 108 minute tool, is now responsible for creating a new one, restoring possibly his karma balance in this respect. Just a thought.
Comment by Dav — May 13, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
Has anyone thought of the fact that the 32 million dollars Miles asked Ben for could be 32 plus 5 0s. or 32.5? Ill bet you that Miles was telling Ben in code about the time differential which gave Ben some knowledge of how he could act on certain things. Just a thought though.
Comment by Jalocke — May 13, 2008 @ 2:30 pm
wasn’t it 3.2 million? but the bearing sayid was told to follow was 325…which as jalocke said could be with ref to the 3.2 mil….
Comment by babybrit — May 13, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
he obviously meant move it in time
Comment by mike green — May 13, 2008 @ 5:59 pm
my thought was that they could change the magnetic field around the island to make it appear to be somewhere else. maybe a bearing of 285 will be needed to find the island? another purple sky could come and change it
Comment by Jeff — May 13, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
It is possible the movement will be in time but we do have proof the island has moved in space. The proof is the Black Rock….remember those early days in season 1 when we were wondering how can you get a ship in the middle of an island…maybe the island teleported and found the Black Rock.
Comment by Hurleybyrd — May 14, 2008 @ 2:04 am
I agree that the island will not be moved in a literal sense. I agree with BobW et al, that it will be moved in a temporal/electromagnectic sense. It will become invisble again.
My delima is why is jack so desperate to get back? I assume the Oceanic Six keep the secret to protect the Island, but why try to get back. Could it be that fenzy we are about to see caused a mistake of sorts that needs to be fixed?
I am also having another thought–that is taht Ben and Keamy are somehow working together. The smoke monster should have killed Keamy but did not. Keamy knows of the Orchid and Ben time travels–how would Keamy know that. I think that Widmore and Ben were in on things together and were using the Oceanic 815ers to get control of the Island but the Island and its posse-Richard/abbadon et al are trying to stop them.
I think Ben and Widmore have turned on each other and that is why there is a secondary protocol (Widmore’s attempt to proctect his stake). Ben is still manipulating Locke and will get him to hide the Island from Widmore Abbadon etc. I think Jack eventually realizes what they caused and will want to get back to fix it. Locke will become Jacob like trapped by Ben in some loop and will need help to escape from the loop/flux. Just my thought.
Comment by cant wait til thursday — May 14, 2008 @ 5:47 am
Did the purge happen 12 year sago sinec Horace said that he has been dead for 12 years? Does that mean that Ben was a teenager 12 years ago? Ithink Ben was young during the purge. This whole time thing is weird but I love it.
Comment by tlw — May 14, 2008 @ 5:51 am
tlw: Ben was an adult during the purge. Remember he sat it the van while his father was gassed to death. However, Horace Goodspeed did greet young ben and his father upon arrival to the island.
Comment by Alaine — May 14, 2008 @ 7:35 am
Remember the beach being flooded by the ocean in season one. Maybe the island was moving forward… just a thought…
I think the island sit in a bubble out of sync with the rest of the world. M\
The island would of had to of moved when dharma was gotten rid of so they couldn’t locate it. Maybe due to the required bearings to get there, even a small move would make it incredibly hard to find.
Reason people like juliet are drugged when taken there, is just to do with how secret the location must be kept.
Comment by Grinspoon — May 14, 2008 @ 8:59 am
The Island is a Boat!! A very large boat. Kind of like the Star Trek: Enterprize. “Beam me up Scottie”.
Comment by scully — May 14, 2008 @ 9:43 am
So far nobody mentioned this (at least not from what I have read), but when Ben appeared in the Sahara desert, it was accompanied by a new sound that was different from the flashback/forward “woosh” and the abrupt non-sound conscious time travel. I think this is a sound cue to indicate teleportation. The rest of “The shape of things to come” had the flash forward woosh, but not that particular scene. I think that Ben can teleport, and that the process is a cold one, which is the reason for the jacket and for testing it on polar bears (although why not teleport the bears to antarctica? Maybe so that they wouldn’t have to worry about them surviving?) Whatever the case, teleportation is going to come into play.
Comment by R.O.B. — May 14, 2008 @ 3:13 pm
I can’t imagine how they’ll explain the island has a consciousness. I think the reason Michael can’t die is because he already exists in the future on the island and he couldn’t die in the past if he already exists in the future.
Another thing, when Locke was told he needs to move the island, I realized that Jacob is not all powerful. If he was couldn’t he just move the island? So why do they listen to Jacob, why do they go to him for advice? Maybe Jacob lives in another time and is stuck, but is able to see the future and communicate with those on the island and give them advice accordingly.
Comment by Kathy — May 14, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
Ah yeah a the whole time paradox thing. I hadnt thought of that.
Like if you went back in time to kill your great grand parents something would always stop you from accomplishing your goal.
Comment by Grinspoon — May 14, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
it is obvious that they will use the volcano to move the island. Just like an engine. Oh and have I mentioned before that the island is the lost city of Atlantis?
Comment by Rick — May 15, 2008 @ 8:37 am
Maybe Ben is in the Parka because he teleported from somewhere very cold. Maybe when Ben teleports it has already been moved to a cold place, like where Widmore’s boys were looking for it originally. Maybe that is how the polar bears got there.
I think they will physically move the island.
Comment by Tim — May 15, 2008 @ 8:41 am
The casimir effect in physics has to do with a force that exists in between two uncharged plates of metal in a vacuum. Search Casimir Effect on google and you can read all about it.
In LOST I think the casimir effect is what happens if you were to teleport to where you already are and then touch or see the other version of yourself I.E. the #15 rabbit. I am assuming by Halliwax’s response to seeing the other #15 that something very bad will happen.
When been goes to the desert, to recruit Sayid, he has on Halliwax’s parka that has the Orchid logo.
Comment by Tim — May 15, 2008 @ 8:48 am
My friend Carlos came up with this idea. What if the punching of “the numbers,” which we all know are a real geographic location, was a way of keeping the island “located.” Could the super magnets be a way of keeping the island in place? What if Desmond was typing in those coordinates to keep the island where it was/is? Imagine the ramifications now that the fail safe has been enacted. Is this how the Freighter located the island?
Comment by Ryan Blanchard — May 15, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Ben wasn’t that young during the purge. We actually saw what he looked like during the purge, and its quite similar to what he looks like today. Never really mentioned, but did he travel back to execute the purge? Possible, I would imagine.
Also, regarding the 3.2 million Miles asked Ben for, I think it did mean something, though nothting relating to the bearings. I think it what was a warning as to how many days he had before Keamy and crew came to the island. Think about it, there must have been a plan in place - Miles and crew go in and disable the gas dispenser. Then Keamy and crew come in exactly 32 hours later….or 3 days later….etc.
I do think Miles is one of Ben’s guys. If Richard Alpert has sought out ’special’ children through the decades, then who’s to say that they didn’t approach Miles when he was kid, or when he first discovered his talents of ghost whispering. Plus, if Jacob is a ghost of some sort, and also one that is looking to displace Ben with Locke, then why not bring in a ghostbuster to possibly get rid of him? Maybe a bit far fetched, but kind of an interesting tangent…..
boo…
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — May 15, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
Ok, so I haven’t posted here (or anywhere) regarding Lost but I think it’s about time.
1) Moving the Island - I know another poster mentioned it but moving the island - in my warped head - is really a matter of moving the coordinates of the island. When Michael left originally, it was 325. Now, it’s 305. Without those coordinates, travelers from both the inside (see Desmond circling in his boat for weeks in a prior season) and the outside (i.e. Widmore’s boat being less than 5 miles offshore but never being able to see it) will be unable to locate the island. This has nothing to do with the purple sky as the purple sky was due to Desmond turning the key and surprised even Ben. This time around, Ben knows exactly what ‘Move the Island’ means as does Kimi from the secondary protocols book. This is obviously something that Ben has done before but he’s apparently always done it prior to any enemies being on the island.
2) Significance of the Sahara Desert - So, the whole thing with the Sahara desert is less about time travel (despite Ben’s asking what year it was) and more about its location relative to the islands location. Ben appearing flat against the desert sand is the 2nd reference to the Sahara to date (from my recollection). The first was the seemlingly random archaeologic dig that Juliet was part of when they discovered a polar bear. I also seem to remember some Dharma initiative emblem appearing there as well. Based on the assumption that the island is off the coast of Fiji as originally discussed - as opposed to off the coast of Samba where the Oceanic representative put it - the relationship between the island and the Sahara desert is more than a coincidence. In fact, these two locations are latitudinal and longitudinal opposites. Fiji: -19.766704, 177.275391. Sahara Desert: 19.766704, 2.724609. I don’t have a theory on how they get there but, in the spirit of the ‘portal’ concept, I’ll say that it’s related. Ben no doubt went there on purpose. The polar bear, not so much, but probably stumbled upon it at some point. Long story short, knowing how each and every detail of Lost is carefully planned by the produces, the fact that these two locations are geographic opposites is no coincidence either.
Anyway, that’s all I got.
Comment by Jeff — May 16, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Hello. And sorry. Because this isn’t probably the right way to post this. But I don’t know how to post a “theory” here.
So, I have two things to say. The first one is about the “we have to move the island” thing.
Perhaps this has been said before. But I think that the Island has been moving around already. And I think that proof of that is where the Black Rock is. It’s in the middle of the island. So, we can think that somehow a hurricane, a tsunami, or something threw the ship across the air and landed there. OR we may think that the ship was calmly sailing when suddenly the island appeared/moved/warped ( I don’t know if it physically moves, it disappears and reappears, it comes from under the water, I don’t know) and poor old Black Rock happened to be in the right place at the right time.
If a Hanso ancestor was on the boat, that may be the way they found the Island. And the Captain’s diary may be important because it may describe those events. Not only that, but perhaps if someone is present there when the island does it’s time-space continuum warping thingy, whomever is “there” when the island appears may suffer from strange side effect, like perhaps Jacob being like “trapped” in some kind of different plane, dimension, or whatever? or Richard not growing old? who knows. Perhaps the island wasn’t even there and in on of its “teleportations” the electromagnetic field (or whatever they want to call it) when it “suddenly appeared” caused the crash of flight 815… perharps someone (someone, the island, Jacob) “knew” where the plane was going through and it appeared there and… well… you know the rest.
Now I want to talk about the season finale. What’s to come is just a theory of mine, based on a few spoilers, so yes,
*****SPOILERS AHEAD*****
I’ve been reading this spoilers for some time now. One was along the lines of “There’s a supersecret Sawyer scene in the season finale”. OK, nothing special there.
BUT you know they get to the orchid, which is supposed to be connected to time travel, or space-time travel or the like.
And I read this (about an alleged super kiss):
“Not only is the kiss spectacular, but according to a very solid source, it’s the kind of liplock that “stops f—ing time” and “makes the entire world vanish in the moment.”
What if that clue… what if the REALLY mean that? that it “stops f—ing time” and “makes the entire world vanish in the moment”?
And here’s what I thought. Could there be a better way to top last years season finale, a flashforward showing Kate and Jack off-island, than having Kate ON THE ISLAND, perhaps just a few minutes after she gets off, kissing with Sawyer? a “Back from the future” Kate, a Kate that somehow managed to “return” to the island (I always thought that Jack’s “We have to go back” meant more “back in time” thing than an actual “back to the island”, or perhaps both.)
So Season 3 finale showed you what would happen like, many years in the future. It showed you from a present on-island perspective what it would be OUTSIDE in the future (something that, at the time it was shown, was to be told and to unfold in the future).
What if this year’s finale shows you a glimpse of what’s to come even further down the road by showing someone coming BACK to the island? and not only back “to the island” but back in time. Because almost parallel to what you see (Kate leaving the island) you could see her “returning” (a moment that “stops time”, and “vanishes the world”) and kisses Sawyer?
I think that could be a hell of a mindfuck. How could she be travelling from the future? Well, I don’t know. It may be Ben-related. Or perhaps not. But I just wanted to share that with you.
PS: About Ben time-travelling, Tunisia, the polar bears, the Dharma logo, and the people on the ship in the season 2 finale, I think that there’s a clearer picture surging about the possible worm-hole, or time-gate properties the island may have and a possible connection between the north pole and tunisia dessert, don’t you think? I think this has been already said before, but well
Comment by Omega — May 16, 2008 @ 7:52 pm