Your Voice: The Cost of Redemption
Submitted by jmb828
There are many mysteries on the show that we’ve simply not been given enough information to solve (i.e. Jacob, four toed statue, origin of the Others, Black Rock, etc.) Additionally, the Widmore/Freighter v. Ben storyline, while great drama, is too early in development to fully understand. It could go in several directions (Who’s good? Who’s bad? Maybe they’re working together. . .) and, given the history of narrative on the show, we’re all probably wrong in our assumptions.
Instead of looking at the whole picture, I’d like to theorize on several key issues for which we’ve been given much more information and which may (or may not) be resolved by season’s end.
The plane in the trench is ACTUALLY Oceanic 815. The bodies in the plane are ACTUALLY those of our beloved Losties. Obviously, the show is telling us the island has unique properties such as consciousness time travel and, if we’re to believe the Orchid outtakes and Tunisian Dharma Polar Bear, physical time travel/teleportation is at work as well. It’s also been heavily suggested (in fact, explicitly stated by Hurley in "The Beginning of the End") that the Island wants the Oceanic 6 back. Mix in the Smoke Monster, electromagnetism, healing powers, whispers, Jacob, etc. . .it doesn’t take much of a leap of faith to theorize that a second plane appeared (mid-crash) within the island’s electromagnetic boundaries. There are a number of possibilities on how this could have taken place. For me, the most likely scenario involves an Orchid-like timeshift/duplication/teleportation process that occurred when Desmond’s confrontation with Kelvin led to the Swan Station system failure.
What’s next? Redemption. The Losties (or at least the version of them that’s not a mile and a half deep in the Ocean) are given the chance to come to peace with their past misdeeds prior to meeting their predetermined fate, death. The theme of Redemption is not new and has, in fact, been confirmed by the producers. Once they’ve confronted their past misdeeds and, in some cases, made up for them, it’s as if the Island allows the "course correction" necessary to force them back to their predestined death. Just like the man in the red shoes.
This brings us to the Oceanic 6. They were never meant to leave the Island. The gift of Redemption was designed to come full circle on the Island and now, the island wants them back. Love it or hate it, they’re not who they used to be, shells of their former selves, destined to die. They know this, they know they’re not supposed to be alive, they’re supposed to be on the Island or dead. We know that some of the Losties may have been killed prior to finding Redemption. . .the pilot, Libby, Nikki, Paulo, and several unfortunate Others. Although it’s possible to be killed, maybe the Island prevents suicide until Redemption occurs. Is that why Michael was unable to shoot himself in "Meet Kevin Johnson"? Is that why Jack was unable to jump off the bridge in "Through the Looking Glass"? And is that why a redeemed Charlie was able to choose death?
In all honesty, I don’t think we’re watching a show in which all the heroes die by series end. In fact, I think there is a way out of the vicious cycle of Rebirth-Redemption-Death. . .Jacob. He’s got to be there for a reason, right? We’ll have to wait and see how this all comes together.
A few additional thoughts:
- Both Widmore and Ben understand the circumstances of the Losties. They’re using the underwater crash site as a tool to manipulate the Losties’ loyalties for some unknown end. Oh yeah, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Widmore and Ben are on the same team. Something just isn’t adding up.
- Why does Locke not want the Losties to leave the island? It’s possible that he has an inherent understanding of their purpose: Redemption. He may also suspect that Jacob may provide an alternative to their predestined deaths.
- The Others’ "Good v. Bad" lists. It’s very possible that, during their time on the Island, the Others had experienced other visitors arriving under the same preconditions as the Losties. They may have known that once personal redemption occurs, the "course correction" takes place and the person dies. Could they have been looking for "Good" people with the understanding that no redemption process would need to take place; thus, the individual would be free to live their life without predetermined death?
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"Your Voice" is a new TTS series in which Tail Section fans submit their articles, theories or reviews to be published on The Tail Section for all their fellow fans to read. Have you spent far too much time pondering the origins of the DHARMA Initiative? Have you alienated your co-workers by rambling about Daniel Faraday’s wacky time anomaly experiment? If so, we want to hear from you. Send your own Lost theories, reviews, or general thoughts to Editor(at)TheTailSection.com. Please keep all submissions between 300 and 1,000 words. We will read through all submissions and contact you if we publish your entry. You will also receive byline credit on our site.
nice theory but we know the pilot under the sea isn’t our pilot as explained by the freighter pilot.
Comment by Josh — April 2, 2008 @ 7:47 am
@Josh: we only know that Frank (the helicopter pilot) thinks the pilot in the undersea plane isn’t the real one because Frank claims to know him so well that it’s an impossibility this man could be missing his wedding ring.
but there are many good explanations for why the corpse was ringless. a wild and fun one would be finding out the pilot was having an affair with the flight attendant who ended up part of the Others community. or it could be LOST?
and while we want to believe, and love a character who knows his buddy well, we’ve been misdirected so very many times before. oh how those wily producers trick us! and it’s sooo good… *sigh* =]
PS…I like many elements of this theory, although it’s wayyy out there and, even though they’re warming us up for some MAJOR scifi mythology coming up, they could well be seen as jumping the shark and slicing it into sharkin’ strips if they went down this road. we gotta hear what’s on that black box…
Comment by SpinPapi — April 2, 2008 @ 8:27 am
Frank’s decision that the pilot shown on the TV couldn’t be the real pilot has always struck me as stupid. I mean, if you were Frank, would you conclude in that situation that it wasn’t the real pilot merely because the ring was gone? What’s the simplest explanation: that the ring fell off, or that somehow the body is being faked by a conspiracy? No one in their right mind would choose the latter, UNLESS they had OTHER reasons to think it was true.
Comment by BobW — April 2, 2008 @ 11:56 am
I like the theory, and I agree that the plane in the bottom of the ocean is, in fact, Oceanic 815. I believe that there are at least two timelines going on here, and I believe that Desmond holds the key to the fate of the passengers. I think their fate will be decided by the actions that Desmond takes between 1996 and 2004. While I believe all that, I also believe in the redemtion theory. Both theories are intertwined with the island’s mysterious personage.
Jacob could be locked in time,and that’s why he weakly says, “Help me” to Locke. He could seem like a supernatural force to Ben, but, perhaps he is just trapped and helpless. I believe that Jacob can take the form of people, as we’ve seen with Ben’s mother, Ecko’s brother, Walt, and the character Juliet met in “The Other Woman.” Maybe he’s behind all the visions that the losties have seen, but maybe some were just hallucinations due to exhaustion.
Comment by rhonda — April 2, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
C’mon people, It’s like you all either refuse to believe or are waiting every little plot detail to be a deception by the writing staff. People, the plane on the ocean floor is a fake plane, I don’t know how many times you need to hear it. It’s like that whole is aaron part of the Oceanic 6 debate, yes he is not only did they say it in the show’s teaser trailer at the end of the 8th episode but they said before when that episode originally aired.
Now, regarding the redemption idea, I do agree that in the end, one the major themes of the show is redemption. Regarding the two timelines, yes I agree that will impact what is happening, but most of you are reading too much into this stuff. You’re expecting surprise after surprise when i guarantee the end explanation of what is going on will truly be simple. Theories like the Adam & Eve theory are just ridiculous. I myself haven’t made up mind yet what the end game is but I’m pretty sure what it isn’t.
Comment by FSULostCaster — April 2, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
The pilot on the T.V. wasn’t Seth Norris!
It was Frank…
Comment by DustinCahill — April 2, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
Now, people, don’t you think FSULostCaster made himself sound like a right tool with that smarmy know-all resposne? If you’re not sure what the end game is, then how could be positive as to what it isn’t? Let me make it plain for ya’ nimrod. Nobody knows what is and nobody knows what it isn’t… even you, (well with the exception of the writers and producers,. of-course). The idea behind these discussions is to post ideas and suggestions as to what direction you think the show is going… and not sound like a complete dick when you see one that you don’t fully agree.
Comment by Dannibus — April 2, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
great theory and I second it as there is a whole genre of films dealing with “doppelgangers”… specifically David Lynch (most of his films) and lately Donnie Darko director latest gem “Southland Tales”. I think Richard Kelly is a great director by the way!
Anyway, perhaps there are two of everyone (one good, one bad) and the whole point at saving the world is making sure those individual but fractured selves NEVER meet or TOUCH due to tall sorts of physics based nastiness about space-time continuums. The prevalent theme of good versus bad has ALWAYS been key to the show and maybe it is not just a moral distinction but more along the lines of the alpha and omega or christ and anti-christ… but it being the same person existing somehow in the same time line.
Also spatially speaking the same could be true, there are two LOST islands or it is some kind of gate somehow on earth to different timelines. Do not forget about the vague and most mysterious character who told Desmond about “universal course correction”. maybe the show is more about maintain specific timelines and the LOSTIES are all crucial to resolving the discrepancies.
anyway just some food for thought but for what its worth, i hope they explain the four toed statue SOON!!!
Comment by drzza — April 2, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
Was that comment about Southland Tales being a gem sarcasm? It had to be…
Comment by DW — April 2, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
I hate Locke. I honestly believe that the only reason that he wants to stay on the island is because he doesn’t want to go back to being a weak lonely guy in a wheelchair. I think he’d probably kill anyone to stay. I think he’s just a selfish guy.
Comment by SSAREEW — April 2, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
I don’t buy that the real 815 is in the ocean trench. It would have been MUCH more interesting for the viewers and the mystery of the show for the writers not to put the bit about how Widmore bought a 777 and sunk it with Thai bodies. We would still be wondering how the plane got there. The fact is they gave us an answer that can’t be contradicted, there is no evidence to the contrary that this isn’t a dummy 815. The writers told us that this was not 815 because they want to build the mystery around the Widmore/Ben relationship. Accept that the trench plane is not 815.
Ben and Widmore are NOT working on the same team. Perhaps they worked together in the past, but it would kill the show if they are working together. At this point in season 4, we know there are two sides Bens and Widmores. You can’t set up a conflict of good and evil and then have both side be in cahoots with each other, that is just bad writing and makes for a technically un-interesting pay-off. If they want to have some sort of theme where everyone in mankind is evil, they will have Ben and Widmore be evil in their own ways while still working against each other, but they need the conflict between the two to progress the show. We have the Losties and the freighter four who all are as lost as the viewers as to which alliance they will side with. It would render their decision pointless if they have to choose between two sides that turn out to be the exact same because there would be no drama there.
Comment by blutoshmooto — April 2, 2008 @ 4:57 pm
I wonder why dead Jack can’t see dead Naomi when Miles is speaking to her.
I wonder why ‘confused’ Frank ended up on that freighter when Widmore could have hired any number of several hundred thousand pilots. I guess he knew something and needed to be dealt with….
I wonder why the plane was found in the Sunda Trench near India but Michael and Minkowski et. al board a freighter in Fiji to head to the Island.
I wonder if I should type 25 more of these questions or just close with this:
With respect, this was debunked in season one
Purgatory with a twist is still purgatory. They are not dead.
TPTB have done everything they could to demonstrate 1-this is all happennig to real people 2-there will not be a cheat to end the show (dream/purgatory/they are dead) 3-they brow beat us with information that the plane was faked 4-they tolkd us to use Occam’s Razor
Comment by Yeppers — April 2, 2008 @ 5:45 pm
I don’t understand how people are so willing to take for fact that the plane was faked. We don’t know for sure at all!!! We only know from the Captain, really. And the writers gave the audience a huge, in your face, yet to be explained instruction: DON’T TRUST THE CAPTAIN.
We don’t know how Lapidus got his information. Probably from the Captain.
It could very well be a faked fake. Why NOT? Widmore and Ben manipulate people all the time with lies and false realities.
Comment by lmz27 — April 3, 2008 @ 7:50 am
IMz27,
You contradicted yourself. The captain supports your argument saying that they found 815 in a trench of Indonesia, but you say the captain can’t be trusted. So if the captain is telling a lie, he knows it isn’t the real 815.
We do know how Lapidus got his information from the 1st episode of season 4. He sees the pilot in the plane at the bottom of the trench and it isn’t the guy who was supposed to be there. This would back up the claim that this isn’t 815, and that the pilot is a staged thai corpse that Widmore put there.
The number 1 reason why it isn’t 815 is that it would be bad writing if it was 815. Look at Ben Linus. He says he is a good guy, but he does horrible things. We don’t know if he is good or bad because he says one thing and does another. This creates mystery. If everyone on all sides of the conflict is saying the plane at the bottom of the trench is not 815 then there is no mystery and thus no payoff for it to be revealed as the real 815. It would violate the viewers trust on a level equivalent to finding out that Jack wasn’t really a doctor after being told for 3 years that he was a doctor. It is not 815.
A faked fake is still not a real 815.
Comment by Blutoschmooto — April 3, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
Too lazy to re type so I’ll just paste what I wrote on another thread. I don’t believe that redemption has a place in Lost other to reveal itself as a mistake. My theory is that the writers have chosen to make lost a ‘tragedy’ in the classic Aristotelean sense in that each major character is experiencing a “reversal” (peripeteia)or fall based on a “mistake” (hamartia). I beleive that mistake is the very idea that the island has anything to do with their personal redemption. By following what they thought was the right thing to do, each 815 passenger made the mistake of not seeing what the island truly was and their lives become miserable. As a result, the characters will cease to be driven by their individual dramas and become lead by the forces around them. They will come to the recognition of thier mistake and find out what the island was for, however, if the stucture of tragedy follows, this recognition will not be redemptive overall, and the end result will be something piteous and fearful to watch. Let’s see…
Comment by BiggsDarklighter — April 4, 2008 @ 1:39 am
let’s not get too doubtful of the writers here… there’s really no reason to believe that the crash is real. plain and simple… watch the pilot episode again… was that all imagined? hallucinated? when ben and the others see the plane crashing running out of thier houses were they just “seeing things”? a proposed definition of reality could be deemed as something witnessed and heard by two seperate parties not having any relation or cohortion with eachother. so the plane crashing on the island was real. it’s not in the trench… furthermore, it just makes sense in fitting with the story line. in the most recent episode when michael has his flashback to explain to sayid how he came to be on the freighter, it is confirmed by the other known as tom aka mr. friendly that the crash was staged by widmore. the context of his statement and the way in wich he was dealing w/michael explaining that he couldn’t kill himself leads me to believe that he had no reason to lie about the fake freighter. we already know that mr. widmore planted the fake crash in order to convince the world that the passengers of 815 were all dead and to call off the search in order to keep the secret of the islands power to himself. this is why widmore wants to get a hold of ben and then kill everyone else on the island. it’s ok to trust the writers sometimes, some things just make sense and the crash being staged makes perfect sense.
Comment by dj esoteric — April 4, 2008 @ 2:23 am
The reason I believe that the 815 crash in the bottom of the ocean is real is because of some of the things Desmond has said–beginning with his first flashback–I believe that occured right after the hatch imploded. What we saw was Desmond waking up naked, dirty, and scorched. During the episode, he had a flashback to his flat–he had just painted the walls red, (he was time traveling in his head) but, in fact, we don’t know if this was a flashback from island time to the time or in the flat, or a flashforward to the island. He was passed out in both places.
Plus, do you remember the scene when he was in the bar and had just broken up with Penny? He made some comment to the bartender that he had just broken up with his girlfriend, but the crazy thing was, he said he thought he had already done it before. Then, remember, in one scene, Desmond (I forget which episode) is running around, hyper anxious, screaming, “I’ll do it right this time, Penny. I promise.”
Well, these things Desmond says have bothered me, tremendously, and I can’t help that he’s going to do it all again, and this time it will be right. I believe that Desmond will change things by the decisions he makes in the next 8 years.
Comment by rhonda — April 4, 2008 @ 10:27 am
You propose two ideas: (1)Duplication – the plane crashed on the island with survivors AND is at the bottom of the sea, no survivors, and (2)Redemption – the characters must confront and reconcile with their past.
I’d just like to add that these two arguments are not necessarily conditional upon each other.
Regardless if the first is true or not, the second holds and, in my opinion, is the far more interesting question and central to the show – why didn’t these people die in the crash?? (Why is the island’s power continually saving/dooming them?)
Personally, I don’t see the duplication thing. There’s no other evidence of it and there isn’t even one character in the show that really believes that the plane at the bottom of the sea is the real Oceanic 815. Unless… Widmore is Ben’s doppelganger! (jk)
But I definitely like your points on redemption, especially in regards to Charlie’s death (& “course correction”). Why does the island keep some people alive, healing and restoring them, and not others? Why aren’t islanders allowed to propagate (sins of the father)? And what does it mean when a former survivor does die?
Also, I agree with the Locke hater, he is an ass. But, damn, I’d be in no hurry to leave that island either. Especially now with roofs & plumbing.
Comment by bobbyjoe — April 4, 2008 @ 8:27 pm
I have been wondering who was in the casket at the funeral home when Jack went to that viewing in last years finally and found nobody there. As we all know only 6 people have made it off the Island. Now we know that it has to be somebody from the Island because both Jack and Kate know the person since Jack asked Kate why she didn’t go and she said why would I go. Which is what led me to believe it was Sawyer. But apparently it can’t be because Sawyer is not one of the oceanic 6. I am also wondering if this has anything to do with alternate time lime at all. Because in the same episode we are led to believe that Jacks dad is still alive. Any thoughts?
Comment by eaglefan — April 7, 2008 @ 5:14 pm
i don’t get it when people say that there is no reason to believe the plane was duplicated, and that it’s obvious that it’s a fake, and that that makes sense. there are many things pointing to it being possible. i’ll list them here. note that if you haven’t seen the orchid orientation film yet and do not yet take it into consideration in your guesses, i talk a little bit about the film and what’s in it. be warned:
- prior to season 4, the orchid video was released, saying it was a teaser for things that were coming up in season 4. furthermore, on at least one occasion they have said in a podcast or dvd bonus feature that the orchid will become important in the latter part of season 4. so far they’ve started to introduce a more scientific approach to the island’s mysteries in season 4 with daniel’s experiments, and electromagnetism seems to be a theme this year. that alone makes me think that the orchid will come into play in an important way later on in the season.
- what happens in the orchid video? marvin candle (with another name) is holding a bunny, talking about how the viewer has probably understood by now that the Orchid is not a mere botanical station. he talks about how the island’s unique properties aided them in a type of Casimir effect. the bunny he is holding has a number on its back. then as he is talking, another bunny with the same number appears behind him, and he goes crazy talking about keeping the two away from each other.
- an orchid is a symbol for perfection, or sexual reproduction. a perfect reproduction, in other words a duplication? this is stretching, i know, but ponder on the notion as i go on.
- a casimir effect is a proposed theory that a vacuum will occur on sub-atomic levels when two uncharged objects are placed micrometers apart in a vacuum that doesn’t have any external electromagnetic fields affecting it. such a vacuum or “space” sounds reminiscent of the island, actually, but that’s something i just thought about right now. however, safe to say, the casimir effect related to the relativity between two objects in a pre-determined space.
- the orchid was also mentioned in a podcast in relation to the polar bear in tunisia.
however, to not support this theory i want to say something that i didn’t see anybody mention so far. someone talked about frank seeing the pilot missing a ring, and thought it was sort of weird for frank to base everything on that assumption alone.
frank did not base his idea on the fact that the pilot seemed to be missing a ring. he also dropped a toy plane into an aquarium to see how it would sink and land on the bottom of the ocean. not a scientific experiment exactly, but it does indicate that frank had serious doubts about what he saw on television.
the idea is that frank was skeptical, and joined to learn more. that is the impression i got anyway.
Comment by Fredrik — April 8, 2008 @ 10:09 am