Episode 4.8 “Meet Kevin Johnson” Afterthoughts
The bad news about "Meet Kevin Johnson" is that it’s the last episode of Lost until the show returns on April 24 at 10pm. The good news is that, because this is the last episode for a while, people won’t be able to blurt out spoilers in the comments section of this article for a change. There’s an upside to everything, right?
Because we’re talking about Lost, let’s discuss this episode in a non-linear fashion. I’m doing this because I have to start by talking about that ending. I refuse to believe that Danielle Rousseau is dead. Refuse! I’ve been waiting for years to see her awesome flashback episode, and the writers cannot possibly kill her without giving it to me. That’s just cruel. Rousseau can easily survive a bullet wound. . .right?
The big question left remaining at the end of the hour is whether or not Ben actually set them up. It’s always possible that The Others just shot first and decided to ask questions later. However, it’s more likely that Ben instructed them to take out Rousseau and Karl, since those are two people he’s never had much use for anyway. Now Alex will have no one to turn to but him.
Whether or not Rousseau is dead (she’s totally not), I liked the way this episode played with our expectations. The ABC promo blurted out that someone would die, and ten minutes into the episode Michael revealed that he was there to die. The entire episode was then devoted to Michael’s story, leading me to believe that Sayid or Gault would surely kill him at the end. That would have been extremely predictable, so I’m glad it didn’t happen.
Alright, now that we have the shocker of an ending out of the way, let’s discuss the rest of the episode. What exactly is this sanctuary that Ben spoke of? Is it some sort of crazy Others temple? I love the fact that there are still unseen places on this island even after four seasons. I really wouldn’t be surprised if there was an entire strip mall off in the distance that no one has stumbled upon yet.
As for Michael’s highly intriguing flashback, it left us with some questions and also gave us a lot of answers. The return of Libby was nice, though rather anticlimactic. I’m dying to find out more about the slain psychologist, and having her pop up to haunt Michael wasn’t nearly enough for me. I hope this is a sign that we’ll get more answers about her character this season, but the question remains, why did Michael see her? On any other show I’d just assume he’s haunted by his past deeds, but because this is Lost, it could easily be something more.
Not only did Libby make a comeback, but so did Mama Cass. The song "It’s Getting Better" also seemed to haunt Michael, but why? That song hasn’t even been played on the show before, so I’m not sure what the significance was.
Appearances from Libby and Mama Cass were interesting, but let’s get into the really meaty stuff from Michael’s flashback. Friendly told Michael that the island wouldn’t allow him to kill himself, and, sure enough, Michael was unable to complete the deed. How is that possible? I was truly reminded of Stephen King’s The Shining (which Minkowski also mentioned) and the way that the Overlook Hotel had a strong influence over Jack Torrance. Still, that was while Torrance was inside the Overlook. Michael was thousands of miles removed from the island, so how could it have any pull over his actions?
Friendly also confirmed that Charles Widmore faked the 815 crash, and he even produced handy evidence to prove it. We now know where those 300 bodies came from. I was also tickled by the fact that Tom had an off-island gay lover named Arturo. It’s nice to get some solid confirmation on which way Friendly swings, though we already suspected it.
I also found it interesting that Ben admitted that some of the freighter folk are actually good guys. Does this mean we can trust Lapidus, Faraday, Charlotte, and Miles? Perhaps. Speaking of Miles, how did he sense that "Kevin Johnson" was an alias? Is he a ghost whisperer and a pro at spotting liars?
Though I know it’s Ben’s job to screw with people, I’m confused as to why he put a fake Joker bomb on the boat if he didn’t want Michael to use it. Was there a point to that? Does the bomb actually work, but he wants Michael to wait until the innocent people are off the boat before using it? I might have missed something there.
Overall, I thought this was a stellar episode. I could have used more Walt and more Libby, but other than that I have no complaints. The hour flew by, and I enjoyed the way most of the episode took place in a flashback. This was Lost’s best outing since "The Constant," if you ask me.
Here are the questions we can discuss for the next five weeks:
Are Karl and Rousseau really dead? Did Ben set them up?
What is the sanctuary?
Did Sayid make the wrong decision by selling Michael out?
What was the significance behind Libby and Mama Cass?
How can the island prevent Michael from killing himself?
Who are the innocent people from the freighter?
How did Miles know Michael was lying?
What will you do for the next five weeks before Lost returns?
Answer in the comments, or send in an article to be published on our site following the guidelines below.
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What the hell man! Please don’t Danielle be dead I love her. Also is Tom GAY?!? Random.
Comment by Elle — March 20, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
they say one person would die .. two people got shot, which one’s dead i have to say carl he was only a minor character
Comment by rmc — March 20, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
tom is very GAY !!
Comment by theboss — March 20, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
What an amazing episode. More than makes up for last week!!!
Comment by Chris — March 20, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
Tom being gay isn’t random — back in the season three premiere, when he tells Kate, “your really not my type,” the way he said it made both my fiance and I assume that he was gay.
I know time is wonky on the island, but they really need to address some time issues with Michael. By the count of days on the Island he leaves at the end of November (the 27th according to Lostpedia). It’s mid-December when Naomi shows up (the 17th). That seems awfully compressed for everything that happened…
Comment by John — March 20, 2008 @ 7:13 pm
i’m sick to my stomach. how can you do that to danielle. the most interesting character. my favourite character. the episode was a let down. i’m sick of just hearing about walt. walt, ben, and danielle are the most interesting in my opinion and we never hear from walt, and danielle was just possibly murdered by ben (or the freighties, keamey isn’t on the boat currently). i am pissed off and the writers. its their show and i believe they know what they are doing. but danielle was unfortunately barely used, then she reunites with her daughter and she gets killed. ugh.
Comment by sam d — March 20, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
I thought Michael’s mom’s house had Xmas decorations up, although that doesn’t really help establish the date any more specifically since people start putting up holiday stuff sometimes even before Thanksgiving. But maybe it DOES indicate that time on the island was about the same rate as time off the island. I did notice that no one in the Michael-in-NY scenes was dressed warmly enough for Manhattan in December. I guess that’s what you get for filming in Hawaii.
Comment by giddy — March 20, 2008 @ 7:28 pm
one word: lost sucks
wait, is that two words, or two people die, shot, tom gay, story line stupid, and who the fuck cares anymore.
can i wait until april 24…yeah, and a lot longer. jump the shark….
Comment by wow — March 20, 2008 @ 7:28 pm
Personally WOW I care! I like the fact that they don’t answer questions to easily. I enjoy the guess work. I can’t wait for the 24th, if you don’t like it stop watching it! If you didn’t care anymore you wouldn’t have had such a strong reaction. No one is forcing you too watch, so stop bitching!
Comment by Elle — March 20, 2008 @ 7:37 pm
Ya that episode was great one of my favoites, The part that blew my mind was when tom told mike that “you can’t kill yourself because the island won’t let you” that was A mindbending moment for me, the the bomb that mike had in the engine room was very funnny stuff! And who the hell was shooting at carl, daneille? was it the “Other Others” Just trying to recover from the braingasem i just had….
Comment by red man — March 20, 2008 @ 7:40 pm
did anyone else feel like this was directed by some terrible b-movie director? I dont know some of the dialogue in it sounded real cheesy (Rosseau saying “i love you” to alex like 10 times, ben saying “welcome to the good guys) especially on a show that prides itself on great writing.
I liked some of the episode, especially seeing Tom again and the whole idea that the island won’t let you die. but i dont know it was just lacking something.
I hated the ending though. It felt as if they randomly added a scene of them beign a shot because the promotional team said someone had to die.
Comment by Omri — March 20, 2008 @ 7:43 pm
I think Ben shot them. He hates when people intrude upon people he loves, like with Juliet and Goodwin. Carl was getting a little too close and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t like her mother putting a wedge between Ben and his daughter. He lured them out into the woods to do it, so no one else would know.
Comment by Gah — March 20, 2008 @ 7:48 pm
How come people just cant accept the fact that people die. Mom and BF are DEAD! Jin dead, claire DEAD. Boone DEAD…
Comment by kmoney — March 20, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
Jin is not dead. Date of death stated as 9/22/04 (date of crash).
He stayed on the island is my bet.
Danielle can’t be dead. There were gonna be Rousseau flashbacks. There had to be. Otherwise why bring up Montand’s arm if we can’t know how he lost it!
Comment by Stan — March 20, 2008 @ 8:29 pm
Once again we have a list of names. Presumably before the sabotage Ben got a list of everyone on the freighter from Michael, and did the usual Creation of Detailed Files. This ties in nicely with the fact that he knew Charlotte’s full details. But I also got the impression that the list was for more than just information. In the past he’s clearly wanted to bring outsiders into the fold, and I suspect this was something he wanted to do with the freighter crew as well.
After this episode I now have a new way of looking at Jack’s attempted suicide in the season three finale. The car crash pulled him away from the edge, but might also be a clue that he can’t die any more than Michael can. Perhaps this is part of why Jack wants to go back.
Comment by Ed Holden — March 20, 2008 @ 8:31 pm
So Aaron is officially one of the Oceanic Six?
Comment by Finchmeister — March 20, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
Great episode.
I got mad at Sayid though. Why would he turn him over to the Captain? I have a feeling that something will happen to Michael, which will make Sayid want to work for Ben in order to make up what happened to Michael.
Anyone else get chills in the opening “previously” part of the show? Just seeing all the Season 2 stuff with Michael brought a chill to my spine.
Glad to get confirmation on Tom’s gender of choice, lol. I loved his “induldge” quote. Had me laughing.
Great episode. I’m excited for 4-24-08. Woo!
Comment by Herb — March 20, 2008 @ 8:50 pm
It would be my guess that Sayid’s actions here are what Ben referred to at the end of ‘The Economist’ (along the lines of ‘remember when you went with your heart over your head’). Now Michael has been ‘outed’ (the second outing on the episode…hehe), the freighties will make it to the island and bad things will happen. This is how Ben got control over Sayid, after his mistake caused it all.
As for Rousseau, I too don’t think she’s dead. There’s too much unanswered for her to die now (errrr….wait, that hasn’t stopped them before!). But seriously, she’s not dead.
Now, what about the communications? I thought they went down at the end of season 2, which is obviously when this flashback was set, yet somehow Ben could contact the boat. Also, it was said that they could leave the island but not get back after this. Something that Tom proved wrong by making it back to the island in time for Sawyer to kill him (one of my fave moments from season 3).
Comment by SalmonKing — March 20, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
I’m not entirely convinced that the Captain was shocked at Sayid’s revelation that Michael “Kevin” is not who he initially claimed to be.
Is it possible that Michael had doubts about his instructions, and previously revealed himself to the Captain? The other members of the ship appear to believe he is just the janitor, but this does not necessarily mean that Michael has not revealed his initial intent to the Captain, and has once again, switched allegiances.
The promos suggest the final season four episodes will show how the Oceanic 6 get off the island, which suggests that Michael did not fulfill his mission - to kill everyone on the ship before they got to the island.
Was Michael unable to complete the task because he was entrapped by Sayid’s revelation, or did he comply with the “mission” of the freighter folks, and aid them in reaching the island, with the hope of rescuing the remaining 815 survivors?
Comment by Isla — March 20, 2008 @ 9:24 pm
Finchmeister, c’mon man! Are you going to be like the people on here who kept saying numerous times “Was Minkowski Michael Douglas?” “Was Minkowski Juliet’s ex-husband?” YES! Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. At the end of the episode they even did a roll-call stating ” Now that you know who the Oceanic 6 are - Sun, Jack, Hurley, Kate, Aaron ( camera doing a close up of Aaron in crib ) and Sayid. And about Rousseau being dead, she could well indeed be DEAD DEAD! Look at Minkowski’s case, he died but he appeared in flash-backs. So next time we see Rousseau could well be when we hear or see the Others or maybe a Richard Alpert flashback.
Comment by Franky — March 20, 2008 @ 9:26 pm
hey did you see the green MOLE flash in between commercials? Is that for Michael…or Sayid?
Comment by sue — March 20, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
“After this episode I now have a new way of looking at Jack’s attempted suicide in the season three finale. The car crash pulled him away from the edge, but might also be a clue that he can’t die any more than Michael can. Perhaps this is part of why Jack wants to go back.”
You are so right the Island will no tlet him die. He does not believe it till that moment. He might have thought about offing himself before but just like hurley told him “it wants us to go back”
GOOD WORK DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Nightowl — March 20, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
just to make it clear: ROUSSEOU AND JIN ARE NOT DEAD
Comment by Malandra — March 20, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
Did anyone notice a glaring hole in logic?
Michael tells Sayid that he was on the boat to die.
However after seeing the flashback, we find out that when Michael SAID that, he KNEW he wasn’t there to die. He was there to sabotage the engine, sabotage the radio, and by those means prevent the freighter from ever getting to the island.
Maybe I’m missing something, but Ben telling him that they couldn’t blow the freighter up because there were innocent people on there, and then him telling Michael to make the list (check it twice) and then mess up the engine and radio, leads me to believe that the bomb is not real and that there will be no dying.
So Michael said “I’m here to die” for nothing. Why would he say that? He knows at that point that he’s not there to die.
Comment by Gary — March 20, 2008 @ 10:13 pm
I saw The Mole split-second logo also! In looking at the ABC website, it’s coming back in the summer. No Cooper Anderson though, i guess he’s got another job.
Comment by Glen — March 20, 2008 @ 10:28 pm
i think it was keamy and omar and other freighter crew members that shot danielle and karl because we already know that frank has taken the helicopter off the freighter so he probably took the ones who were practicing or playing with the automatic weapons on the freighter in michaels flashback back to the island. maybe their intention is to kidnap alex to get to ben, maybe charles widmore wants answers. i just think it was a pretty random scene unless it was to show us that they are trained soldiers or mecenaries or something
Comment by jesse patterson — March 20, 2008 @ 11:03 pm
That ending really stung! In the preview for this week’s show, they said that “someONE” would die. Can we take them literally? Maybe Karl or Danielle (I’m hoping for Danielle) didn’t die and will make a comeback.
Also, and this is no big deal I’m sure, if I’m not mistaken Naomi’s helicopter crashed into the ocean just after she bailed out of it. Where did the second one come from? The one that Lapidus flew to the island.
Comment by Celeste — March 20, 2008 @ 11:10 pm
Hoo hah! That episode totally redeems the season. By far the best since last season. I found myself totally engrossed and when it was over I was caught totally surprised that the hour had elapsed. No way Michael dies in the short term. I loved the way they used his discredited character to reveal so much as well as set so much in play (just what is his role in the big meltdown/rescue?). Maybe by season’s end he’ll die but there’s far more that his character is going to be used to explain and he will be a force for a while. And Tom being gay is the syrup on the flippin’ pancake. Too sweet. Two discredited characters getting a great episode together. Awesome. Yeah the dialogue was cheesy in parts but this show has always had its awkward moments.
As for Sayid ratting him out to the captain, that’s a questionable move. Yes it forces the captain to reveal his allegiances and intelligence, but even if the captain has placed the mission on the back burner and is instead trying to save the ship, if the captain is loyal to Widmere why would he swing a deal with a crash survivor? It seems anything he reveals would be inauthentic, unless he is not privy to the details of the mission and thinks Sayid can help save the ship. As for the theory that is posted above that this is the decision that leads Sayid to be recruited by Ben, it could be, but the mistake happened much earlier when Sayid gave away his gun for the hand held radio (Ben referred to a mistake Sayid makes in not using a gun).
Karl is dead. Funny, moments before he got shot I said to my partner, “Karl has to die.” He has been a totally irrelevant plot device. However I did not expect Rousseau to die, and she may not be dead (along with Charlie and Sun — who knows?).
For the next five weeks I am left with a core set of questions –
1) Yes or no: “Ben wanted to gas everyone”? (the tanks Faraday neutralized before they could release what was apparently a poison — and just how did he know about that gas, again?). If Yes, then why did the people on the mission to capture Ben and kill all survivors decide to thwart the mission by deactivating the gas? There seem to be a lot of defectors on the ship, each with different motivations. If Yes, then Ben is lying about being a good guy. If No, then there are far more questions that need asking, beginning with who initiated the countdown to release the gas?
2) The reason Widmere plans to kill all survivors is…(it has to be really good to risk exposure of what would be a massive crime, exposure of the whole exhumation of the dead in Thailand, defrauding the public about the crash, etc.
3) The reason Jack wails to Kate that they have to go back is…(what has motivated his transformation? he begins his off-island time seeming not to care)
4) How long of a break is there going to be between this and next season?
Comment by locke_look_alike — March 20, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
Something I forgot to add to my previous post…I had thought that the “Temple” was really an actual temple that had been erected by some ancient islanders. I only got a glimpse of the map but it looks like its maybe another Dharma station.
Comment by Celeste — March 20, 2008 @ 11:21 pm
ok everyone knows danielle isn’t dead even though i reall wish she was. she is annoying and ugly. im glad karl is dead and i kinda wish alex would die. but besides the stupid ending the episode was okay, i wasnt too impressed. but i used to hate micheal and then when i watched this episode i started to pitty him. what a sucky life he has made for himself. but oh well he deserves it. i agree that him saying “i’m here to die” didn’t really make sense… but maybe that will play out later. i did like how they answered so many questions but i don’t like how the show is forcing you to side with ben. its either bens side or mr whitmores side… i think they are both evil… but now ben is sitting around eating dinner with everyone. and yes aaron is one of the ocianic six that preview for the april 24th episode confirms that. duh.
Comment by uh huh — March 20, 2008 @ 11:49 pm
I think Libby’s “ghost” haunts Michael, most likely because she wasn’t supposed to die…thats why Miles knew his name wasn’t Kevin Johnson…or mabey he just liked the Phoenix Suns in the 90’s…and was making a joke
“you’re not #7!, wheres KJ?!”.
Comment by kyle — March 21, 2008 @ 12:32 am
The reason Michael says ‘I’m here to die’ is because that’s exactly what he means. He’d been attempting to commit suicide throughout his flashback. The Others coerced him into boarding the ship with promises of redemption. But I believe he accepted as a means to an end. His end, specifically. He was ready to go when he pressed the execute button, sure. That opportunity passing doesn’t mean he isn’t still motivated by his own suicidal intentions. Perhaps he’s come to the conclusion that eliminating this threat to the Island will relieve him of his unwelcome immortality, that fulfilling this purpose will allow him to die.
Comment by Matchstick — March 21, 2008 @ 12:52 am
Regarding the ending: The writers have used a lot of misdirection lately.
-In “The Other Woman” the whole crux is that the Freighter folk are going to use the Tempest to gas everyone when in fact they are trying to disable it.
-In the Season 3 finale the introduction of the flashforwards.
-In the Economist the misdirection of Elsa + the misdirection of disguising Ben’s voice.
-In Yi Jeon the mixing of flashforward and flashback.
-In “Meet Kevin Johnson”, Michael says I’m here to die, but he doesn’t and instead Danielle and Karl die (or don’t depending on how much you like their characters).
It looks very obvious for it to be Ben who arranged the killing. I mean, you almost expect it. The writers established that Ben is possessive and willing to kill (or have someone else do it) to keep the things he cares about. And they certainly shot that scene like it was the Others. Except there was no whispering. And the gunshots where silenced, which is something the Others have never used before. It wasn’t nighttime or raining which is usually when the Others appear. So I’m not sold on the idea that the Others shot Karl and Danielle. I think it is more misdirection.
A counterpoint to my arguement however is that Alex says “I’m his daughter! I’m Ben’s daughter!” The Others know that already and if they are shooting at her then they clearly don’t care. They definitely did a good job of leaving it open enough that you’re not sure and have no clue what will happen. Even if the actual execution (sorry for the pun) was a little sloppy by LOST standards.
Quick note: The bullet piercing the water bottle is, to me, a reference/homage to the glass of milk and Mrs. Carmody being shot in Steven King’s The Mist.
Comment by stitchmonger — March 21, 2008 @ 4:19 am
Brilliant episode! ending was abit iffy but the micheal storyline was amazing.
Dno about anyone else but lost sometimes scares the crap out of me lol anyway…
I loved the irony of sayid getting pissed at micheal cz he was working for Ben. If only he could look into the future the git
Comment by Craig — March 21, 2008 @ 4:44 am
No one has questioned the scene in which the captain is beating a man for trying to leave the ship in Michael’s flashback! Later, a woman on the ship also jumps to her death. So there is something about the voyage or the ship affecting the shipmates, right?
The temple looks like another Dharma station to me.
Nice cliff hanger with Ben’s daughter tell whoever is shooting just that, “I’m Ben’s daughter!” Either way, she’ll be taken in - whether they are the Others or the shipmates!
Comment by monkeyboy42 — March 21, 2008 @ 5:24 am
Guys, how did Ben contact the ship, with all comunications being jammed and all?
Comment by wrighter — March 21, 2008 @ 5:55 am
I think that the time wasn’t different for Michael in New York since Desmond didn’t blow the Hatch yet. Desmond blew the hatch after Michael had left the island. Also, i do agree with the fact that Jack may have the same problem of trying to kill himself like Michael. He too was interrupted in his suicide attempt on the bridge. To myself, its seems that for some reason they have to get back to the island and change something in time in order to have their lives back, since they interrupted a timeline.
Comment by Joe — March 21, 2008 @ 6:16 am
I think this episode is further proof that Michael is the one in the coffin at the end of season 3. His mother said she couldn’t call him or Walt by their real names. This is because Michael and Walt’s return was a secret and nobody knows (except for Michael’s mother) that they are 815 survivors. However, Michael didn’t get the “Kevin James” alias until Mr. Friendly gave it to him. That means he has another Alias. Possibly the name from the obit Jack had. Also, the fact that nobody knew he was a survivor of 815 and his family wanted nothing to do with him would explain why nobody was there. Also, IIRC, the obit said the man hung himself. Well, Michael sure wanted to kill himself and tried quite a few times.
Thoughts?
Also, I found it ironic that Sayid was pissed at Michael because he was working for Ben but we know from a previous episode FlashForward that Sayid ends up working for Ben too (and also killing people).
Great episode. Almost as good as “The Constant” in my opinion.
Comment by Nova — March 21, 2008 @ 6:23 am
Did anyone else notice Alex holding her stomach in the beginning like she was pregnant??? I don’t know, could’ve just been a weird angle, but are there any mistakes on Lost?
Also, Ed, great point about Jack not being able to kill himself. Awesome.
Great episode. And yes, Lost scares the crap out of me sometimes.
Comment by Andy11 — March 21, 2008 @ 6:23 am
I’m not sure we yet have the answer on who faked the crash of 815. Are we convinced that it was Widmore because gay Tom says so and has pictures of exhumed graves? Gee, it’s not like Ben (and Tom) haven’t lied to us before to get what they want. Recall that the Captain told Desmond and Sayid that Ben was responsible for faking the crash. Who do you believe? I’m not sure at this point who I believe, but I don’t think this issue is resolved. Other than that, I thought it was a great episode.
Comment by BamBam — March 21, 2008 @ 6:32 am
I’m so glad that was brought up! We really have no idea yet who faked the 815 crash, since both scenarios are equally plausible:
1. Widmore faked the crash, purchased the plane, exhumed the dead bodies from mass grave sites, etc. Tom supposedly has the paperwork to prove it. Motivation? Widmore wants no one else to find the island before he does. However, we all know very well that Ben and those who work for Ben are more often than not lying.
2. Ben faked the crash. We know he has the resources to pull this off based on what we’ve learned of him this season. His motivation? Staging the crash will hopefully lead the public to assume that 815 has been found at the bottom of the ocean, and they will call off their search and thus not find the island. However, Michael tells us not to trust captain Gault, who is most certainly lying about something, and I don’t believe Widmore is the pinnacle of honesty either.
Only time will tell.
Comment by Jeremy — March 21, 2008 @ 6:42 am
Did anyone else notice Alex holding her stomach in the beginning like she was pregnant??? I don’t know, could’ve just been a weird angle, but are there any mistakes on Lost?
I noticed that too. But really didnt think much of it at the time.
This was a great episode. I will be really disappointed if Danielle is really dead. There is a lot more to her story that has not been told.
Comment by Eric — March 21, 2008 @ 7:22 am
Andy11 - I noticed the shot of Alex. She was cooing over Aaron then had her hand on her belly. It immediately hit me that she might be pregnant.
Comment by pbhs1976 — March 21, 2008 @ 7:28 am
My wife mentioned something last night that nobody here has noticed. If Lapidus and Miles were expertly familiar with the flight manifest in earlier episodes, why did they not know who Michael really was?
Comment by JoeLiberty — March 21, 2008 @ 7:49 am
for the last time…that is NOT michael in the coffin.
Comment by dick dastardly — March 21, 2008 @ 8:12 am
I have never believed that Alex was Ben’s daughter. It appeared to me that he stole her away from Rousseau, when he killed the Dharma people. However, I noticed that he was speaking of Alex as being his daughter in front of Rousseau last night, and Rousseau did not slap him as she did previously. Rousseau did not seem to mind him speaking of her in that way. Ben lies. He lied about being born on the island, so I always thought he lied about being Alex’s father. So, what do you think? Do you think that he and Rousseau had an affair previously to her coming to the island?
Plus, I think that Rousseau could have survived an arrow, but she could just as well be dead, and I do think that Ben killed them. I don’t believe anything that Tom says, so I don’t know if Widmore, in fact, set up the fake 815 crash. I still am hanging on to the two time lines theory that I have, and I think that digging up a bunch of Chinese graves sounds a bit farfetched. Plus, having a huge airplane placed just in the correct spot, so that the bodies would have time to deteriorate is just too good–I think Tom’s story sounds made up, but I think that Tom believes it himself, because Ben told him all that.
I get the feeling that Sayid is already working for Ben, and that Michael is less competent than Sayid, and Ben wants him dead, so that Sayid can take over his work. Ben would rather have Sayid as an inside man. I think that the way the bomb didn’t “execute” (the numbers?) was very cool and very Benish. Ben was just testing Michael to see if he would follow orders. Michael has already done a lot of damage to the freighter, and he got Ben the list he needed. The freighter people are getting antsy. Ben may just be a winner, after all.
Comment by rhonda — March 21, 2008 @ 8:17 am
Miles knew that Michael was lying because he’s a psychic.. simple as that!
Comment by Grantsolo — March 21, 2008 @ 8:49 am
I don’t necessarily believe that Widmore dug up the bodies in Taiwan and put them on the plan. Why are we to suddenly believe what Mr. Very Friendly says all of a sudden? Couldn’t the “evidence” be the Others very records of how they set up the dummy crash?
It was nice to see flashes of Walt at the window. What is he, like 6′3″ by now? If he ever makes an appearance on the show again they will have to computer generate him back into his prebubescent body.
I’ve always considered Karl a red-shirt, so tonight’s episode was no surprise.
I agree with the others that Danielle is probably not dead. You know the island: if you don’t get killed, you make a miraculous recovery.
Personally, I felt Michael’s angst and desperation came on too thick and too much. I mean, we haven’t heard hide nor hair of this guy in like two years and suddenly we are supposed t be gripped by his overwhelming guilt and despair? And I totally didn’t believe his momma. We are to believe that Michael would kill for Walt (whom he hadn’t really had contact with prior to the plane crash) and then believe that Michaels own momma would turn against him? Especially after she initially thought he was on that plane. I’d be saying,”That’s right son, you were never on no plane, and I LOVE your new name….”
I don’t think this was the second best episode besides The Constant.
One thing I am tired of is having Locke’s group sitting around the YMCA camp the entire season. AND I want to know what is going on with the other Others? (Besides killing Karl and not killing Danielle).
Comment by Susan — March 21, 2008 @ 8:56 am
Anyone else notice that when michael was trying to shoot himself, just before the news of oceanic 815 being found they mentioned the name Kurt Vonnegut on the gameshow that was on?
Comment by rsm — March 21, 2008 @ 9:07 am
OK so the brief case bomb? Am I making to much out of the exposed RAINBOW of GAY Themed colored wire strip between the base and lid joint? Or was it just a splash of color for an otherwise dull prop?
Comment by Ted — March 21, 2008 @ 9:35 am
My question is: why Libby? Why isn’t, say, Ana Lucia, or both of them, that haunt Michael?
Comment by AMB — March 21, 2008 @ 9:38 am
Pretty good episode. Sayid kinda upset me there near the end. But oh well. And does anyone remember seeing a sneak peak of this episode where the captain is explaining all about the black box to desmond, sayid and michael? Where was that scene?
Also, considering that is might be Michael in the coffin. Isn’t it messed up that not even his own mother showed up to the funeral? Sure he was too stupid to figure out a way to get his son back without killing two women, but was that enough to make his own mom hate him? What a cold bitch.
Did Desmond say a word in this episode? I don’t think he did. I want more Faraday!!
Comment by TheDude — March 21, 2008 @ 9:43 am
The people who shot Karl and Rousseau where from the freighter. If you remember Frank left with a group from the freighter in the previous episode. Also, several of the more violent members of the freighter have been mysteriously absent for a while as has the helicopter pilot Frank. The freighties are on the Island and they have Ben’s daughter which is exactly what he feared. This begs a lot of question. Its appears they landed on another part of the island and probably where attempting to intercept the Other on the way to the temple. They had knowledge of the Tempest so its no stretch to assume the have acknowledge of the Temple which appears according to the map given to Alexandra is another Dharma station as it was clearly marked with a Dharma logo
Comment by Mick — March 21, 2008 @ 9:45 am
Whenever I watch Lost I remind myself that, “Everything Has A Meaning!” All of the details on the show have some kind of meaning even if we never find out what it is. The writers are tricky that way.
The episode was great. I loved it. The new detail that the island wouldn’t let Micheal kill himself was brillent. I think that definately explains why Jack is a little off his rocker in last season’s finally.
Personally I don’t think Danielle is dead. Karl, he’s a goner. He was only there to annoy Ben anyways. Danielle is strong and a survivor. She’ll be back and we’ll eventually get to see a back story, I hope. I totally believed that Ben set them up at the end. I think the writers also wanted you to think that. Then I remembered the crew shooting skeet on the boat. Karl and Danielle got shot with silenced guns. This is not the MO of the others. Alex relized it also. She said I’m Ben’s daughter. The others know who she is. Ben also told her that if the people on the boat ever found out who she is it would be bad. They needed to establish that these guys are here for no good, and that is why Micheal decides to set off the bomb and continue to work for Ben. In true Lost fashion we won’t find out till later
Syid has such a strong moral compass. He has alsways been one of my favorite characters. It was killing me wondering why he would ever work for Ben. I think we found out last night. By ratting out Micheal he is going to put some events in motion that he needs to fix later. So Ben is probably going to be the lesser of 2 evils, very scary. He will need to right his compass again.
The big question I have is about Ben’s list. He always wants lists of people and then has the ability to judge them as good or bad. Whenever one of the others wanted to take someone along he would simple reply they are not on the list. Who tells him, the island, jacob? Is it his own discretion? This little detail has always bugged me. I’d love some theories.
I did not believe Mr. Smiley for one second that whidmore planted the boat. I thought it was an obvious way for Ben to use Micheal, but after thinking about it and reading some post, I just don’t know anymore. This is why Lost is so good. It always keeps you guessing, even when they tell you what is going on.
Comment by fletch958 — March 21, 2008 @ 9:48 am
First, Danielle is probably dead. And the fact that she is dead and yet we still expect a flashback is telling! Danielle is Annie! Which i’ve been saying for the past year. Names have a lot of significance in lost and alex’s father was probably killed by ben in some way and danielle was allowed to live in exile. Danielle is most likely dead. Thus we get her backstory through ben (and maybe other characters). Ben most likely didn’t intentionally kill them. We can now assume from a)sayid working for ben after outing michael b)the helicopter being gone again from the freighter c)the telling scene of shooting skeet of the boat with automatic weapons and finally d)scenes from next week/the rest of season apparently showing that a war is brewing and the bad freighters (the ones with guns) do mean ill will towards those on the island. If they really meant rescue, they would have been more honest to the losties and it wouldn’t be just the oceanic 6. I thought it was a very enjoyable episode and it is nice that those small comments like tom’s “you’re not my type” actually get explained at some point, although i had a feeling from tom’s conversational style that there was a good possibility that he liked dudes. Too bad sawyer killed him in cold blood. Which is also one reason I don’t think Sawyer could possibly survive the series. Prove me wrong writers!
Comment by hurleybird — March 21, 2008 @ 10:02 am
Is Mr. Friendly time traveling too?
How was he talking to Michael in NY, just before the freighter was loading, way after Sawyer had killed him? More Island mysteriousness? Loved the immortality angle, at the behest of the Island…way cool.
Another great episode, I could not believe how fast the hour flew by…almost like I was time traveling!
More questions, some answers, more questions… and, oh yeah, how did that polar bear get on the island?
This is going to be a long 4 or 5 weeks until new episodes…Thursday won’t be the same.
And why no enhanced episode of “Yi Jeon” this week??? Looking forward to an enhanced episode of the Season 4 opener though….did they say that will be shown next week? Or before the new episodes?
Love this show, and yes, it sometimes scares the hell out of me, and my wife, too
Comment by Jimster — March 21, 2008 @ 10:10 am
Is Mr. Friendly time traveling too?
How was he talking to Michael in NY, just before the freighter was loading, way after Sawyer had killed him? More Island mysteriousness? Loved the immortality angle, at the behest of the Island…way cool.
Another great episode, I could not believe how fast the hour flew by…almost like I was time traveling!
More questions, some answers, more questions… and, oh yeah, how did that polar bear get on the island?
This is going to be a long 4 or 5 weeks until new episodes…Thursday won’t be the same.
And why no enhanced episode of “Yi Jeon” this week??? Looking forward to an enhanced episode of the Season 4 opener though….did they say that will be shown next week? Or before the new episodes?
Love this show, and yes, it sometimes scares the hell out of me, and my wife, too
Comment by Jim in Cali — March 21, 2008 @ 10:12 am
How did Ben know the phone number to the freighter? Keamy and his crew are probably the shooters, sounds like a sniper rifle to me. I also think that the crew has an insider on the island as well or the insider once was on the island and has divulged everything to the freighties. That would explain why they were waiting for whoever to be on their way to the Temple. The people in the temple are designated as “good”, which makes me believe that when the soldier for hires make their way to the temple, the smoke monster will appear and protect the people in the temple.
Why does only a few people get to leave the island? Like Mr. Friendly said. I mean is it that only a few people get to leave or have the capability to leave?
One thing about Danielle and I don’t know if it has made it’s way onto the discussion boards and that is that the maps she has closely resembles the maps that the freighters have. Was her boat crew made up of similiar people that the freighter people have and if so then where is her boat? Was her crew searching for the island as well and when everyone started going loopy she killed them?
Why does Ben keep calling Alex his daughter?
Comment by Scot Fluk — March 21, 2008 @ 10:16 am
Did i miss something previously, or did we not find out why, exactly, Michael cannot tell people where he came from or who he actually is? I don’t remember Ben saying, ‘you can’t tell anyone or else!’…..or did he?
Michael’s mom states that she can’t tell anyone that he was a part of 815 and that she has to call him by different names. We have yet to find an answer to this, right?….or did i miss something?
thanks in advance!
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 10:26 am
Did i miss something previously, or did we not find out why, exactly, Michael cannot tell people where he came from or who he actually is? I don’t remember Ben saying, ‘you can’t tell anyone or else!’…..or did he?
Michael’s mom states that she can’t tell anyone that he was a part of 815 and that she has to call him by different names. We have yet to find an answer to this, right?….or did i miss something?
thanks in advance!
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 10:26 am
Jim in Cali, Mr. Friendly wasn’t traveling in time when he spoke to Michael as he was boarding the freighter, due to Sawyer not killing him yet. Remember, it was a flashback. At that point, the freighter hadn’t departed yet, Naomi didn’t drop onto the island yet, and therefore, Tom wasn’t shot dead yet.
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 10:33 am
Jim in Cali, Mr. Friendly wasn’t traveling in time when he spoke to Michael as he was boarding the freighter, due to Sawyer not killing him yet. Remember, it was a flashback. At that point, the freighter hadn’t departed yet, Naomi didn’t drop onto the island yet, and therefore, Tom wasn’t shot dead yet.
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 10:33 am
…how come the island’s ‘protection’ doesn’t work on everyone..for example locke, michael (and possibly jack) can’t die but mr. ecko, boone, libby, etc. can die…
Comment by lostfan03 — March 21, 2008 @ 10:42 am
Maybe ecko, boone, libby, etc weren’t on the list?
Personally, its not that big of a deal. I was on the list once, but got bumped off due to some things i did with coconuts on the island. Oh well…
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 10:50 am
Maybe ecko, boone, libby, etc weren’t on the list?
Personally, its not that big of a deal. I was on the list once, but got bumped off due to some things i did with coconuts on the island. Oh well…
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 10:50 am
Here are some questions I’d like to discuss:
How did Michael actually get off the island and find rescue?
How could everything that happened in his flashback happen in just shy of forty days?
Why could he not tell anyone who he is. Why?
Where the hell are the rest of the crash survivors. (the auxiliary cast)
They seem to be getting less and less each episode?
Why do the others think they have the moral highground on killing when Ethan and
Goodwin have both killed in a pre-meditated cold blooded fashion?
…I’m hopeing these techniacal issues are part of a plan, and not just sloppy writting.
Comment by Stev — March 21, 2008 @ 11:07 am
Stev, the reason he didn’t tell anybody is because if he had he would be subjected to a lot of question such as how did you get off the island, did anybody else survive and where is the plane?
Comment by Micky — March 21, 2008 @ 11:16 am
Micky-
So WHY couldn’t he tell people, or subject himself to the questions? This is the larger question. Was Ben threatening to do something to Walt if Michael talked???
If you just arrived back at the mainland after being stranded for two months, wouldn’t you tell someone that there are other people stranded?
Maybe he is scared that people would find out that he killed a couple people…..but are we to assume this?
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 11:43 am
Micky-
So WHY couldn’t he tell people, or subject himself to the questions? This is the larger question. Was Ben threatening to do something to Walt if Michael talked???
If you just arrived back at the mainland after being stranded for two months, wouldn’t you tell someone that there are other people stranded?
Maybe he is scared that people would find out that he killed a couple people…..but are we to assume this?
Comment by Charlie's Ghost — March 21, 2008 @ 11:43 am
I have a question last weeks episode the captain showed Desmond and Sayid the “black box” from Oceanic 815. He said the Widmore used his vast rescources to obtain it form the wreckage. My question is if the plane rashed on the island how can Widmore have the “black box” from #815? Does he have a plant working for him on the island who got the box for him? Is it not Widmore at all but Ben who is the mastermind behind this?
Comment by Aldoisalwayssunnyontheisland — March 21, 2008 @ 12:04 pm
A couple of things come to mind after thus episode:
Miles was at Michael’s mother’s home to talk to the ghost of a child. Was it Walt? What was the baggie of powder and all the money doing hidden in Walt’s room? Is this how Miles knew that Michael was not Kevin Johnson? Perhaps he saw a picture of him when he was at Michael’s mother’s house.
Comment by Rudy — March 21, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
was that Michael’s mother’s house that Myles went to? Everyone I know says no but I thought so.
Comment by Julie — March 21, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
the woman’s name that Miles went to was Mrs. Gardner, is she related to MIchael or Walt at all, now I’m not so sure.
Comment by Julie — March 21, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
i agree with the previous post about the writing. it was from a less than B-Movie.
“welcome to the good guys”…c’mon. anybody with a brain knows ben is a complete manipulative asshole. a janitor turned con artist. and “the island won’t let you die”….whoah, how deep. i’m scared. wtf? that’s not even as good as steven king line
and why would alex still let ben refer to her as his daughter? seriously. some sort of stockholm syndrom.
i’m not happy with the writing. but before people flame me and say, “well then don’t watch”, it’s just an opinion. they could do better, and just aren’t. they are delivering b-movie dialog with a story line that is falling to pieces.
there are many more questions and holes that make no sense. so walt all of sudden just disses his dad because he told them? that’s such a thin possibility, yet the entire show and ben’s strategy relied on it to happen?
the island is a mystery, and so is the black smoke/monster, and the writers are just doing a bad job of driving to a conclusion. it’s a b-movie soap opera now….
Comment by enoch — March 21, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
“The song ‘It’s Getting Better’ also seemed to haunt Michael, but why? That song hasn’t even been played on the show before, so I’m not sure what the significance was.”
Michael started his car, ready to drive into a dumpster at 90mph, and hears the lyrics, “It’s getting better”. Ever heard of irony?
“We are to believe that Michael would kill for Walt (whom he hadn’t really had contact with prior to the plane crash) and then believe that Michaels own momma would turn against him? Especially after she initially thought he was on that plane. I’d be saying,’That’s right son, you were never on no plane, and I LOVE your new name….’”
Michael’s mom knows that something is up. She’s not an idiot.
“My wife mentioned something last night that nobody here has noticed. If Lapidus and Miles were expertly familiar with the flight manifest in earlier episodes, why did they not know who Michael really was?”
A flight manifest is basically a list of names. No photos.
“Michael cannot tell people where he came from or who he actually is? I don’t remember Ben saying, ‘you can’t tell anyone or else!’…..or did he?”
At the end of Season Two, Ben says something to the effect of, “My guess is you won’t tell anyone about this island because then you’ll have to tell them what you did to get your son back.” Imagine Michael making his story public and having families come forward to ask about their loved ones. “Michael! Can you tell me what happened to my daughter?!? Her name is Ana-Lucia Cortez! Is she ok!?!?”
Comment by b — March 21, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
“so walt all of sudden just disses his dad because he told them? that’s such a thin possibility, yet the entire show and ben’s strategy relied on it to happen?”
Oh ya… It’s really hard to imagine why a 10-year-old kid would stop talking to his dad just because the kid found out that his dad murdered two people. That’s a real stretch…
And how does it hurt the show/storyline that Walt isn’t talking to Michael? I think it adds to the tragedy of Michael’s character. What he did to save his son comes back and bites him because now he’s lost his son all over again, but in a different way.
Comment by b — March 21, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
So can you not kill yourself, or can you not die? Because if you can’t die then whoever was in the coffin wasn’t from the island.
Comment by Matt — March 21, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
In response to hurleybird: I don’t think that Danielle is Annie. Remember in “The Other Woman” Juliet is told by the therapist that “You look just like her.”? I think this is in reference to Annie. I think that Ben is infatuated with Juliet because she reminds him of Annie. I think that Annie and Ben married and she got pregnant and died giving birth, like the other women. OR that Annie was killed the same way that Ben was about to be “purged” as he referred to when speaking to Locked when showing him the dead bodies in the grave after he did his own purge with the gas. Ben makes a reference to the fact that he was about to be “purged.” Which makes me wonder if Ben has some sort of power that we have yet to see… “special” like Walt.
In response to lostfan03 and the Islands protection. I think it applies to those who haven’t been redeemed yet. Libby was pretty much as good as she could get. Eko built the church and did what he needed to purify his soul or redeem himself. I think Boone had done the same thing. I think for most of the characters that the Island is still watching over it’s to allow them to redeem themselves or to help the island get rid of the corruption that is happening within its boundaries.
I also think that it’s the freighter folk firing at Danielle, Karl, and Alex. Lapidus left to return to the island and we haven’t seen the “men with the guns” since. Granted, we don’t always see everyone. However, now there are these snipers in the jungle! Seems to me that when the mission failed to get Ben, they went to plan “B” and tried for Alex. Or maybe Ben suspects that Alex is pregnant and that is his way of getting her off the island to save her life! Now there’s a twist for ya! Because, yes I agree that Alex looked pregnant. Not only was she holding her stomach but she even appeared to have a “bump,” did she not?
I think people who leave the island see those who have died, whether they died on the island or prior to coming to the island. That is what draws them back. It maybe seen as part of the “sickness,” but ultimately they feel they have to return to make the visions stop. Hurley is close to Charlie, Jack see his dad (maybe Claire), Sun sees possibly Jin, Michael with Libby (they don’t bring by Anna Lucia for obvious reasons-keeping drivers in Hawaii safe), etc. Kate, I wouldn’t be surprised for her to start seeing Sawyer. Sayid…Shannon…and maybe to make the visions stop he goes to work for Ben who holds the cure.
What if Miles visit to Walt’s grandma’s house was a flash forward? What if he’s doing that now (after the island) to earn that 3.2 million dollars he never got from Ben? Anyone? Even if it’s not Walt’s place…..
But I loved the episode…to me to went by way too fast…I couldn’t believe it had been an hour yet!
Comment by Nikita — March 21, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
I liked last nights episode except for Tom being gay.
Comment by Marc — March 21, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
How did Michael actually get off (AWAY) FRom the island and find rescue?
I FORT THEY WERE GOING TO TELL US THIS, INSIDE 40 DAYS MICHAEL HAS LOST HIS SON AND WORKIN FOR BEN ON HIS WAY BK TO THE ISLAND TO REDEEM HIMSELF (or sumthing else) I JUST DONT GET IT
Comment by JOHN — March 21, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
I KNOW HOW MILES MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT MICHEAL WAS LYING ABOUT HIS NAME:
all the people on the freighter were given pictures and profiles of EACH of the oceanic 815 people, and micheal was on the list, as was his picture… so some of the people on the boat must had known that it was actually micheal and not this “kevin johnson”
Comment by stacey — March 21, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
Does anyone know why only 4 episodes are planned for after April 24th? Or am I getting wrong information?
Comment by Ben — March 21, 2008 @ 10:36 pm
Here’s an idea that I wanted to float. It may be a bit of a reach, but I think there is enough supporting evidence to make it interesting. Apologies if this has been floated before.
I think that there are a group of people on the island that we haven’t yet directly encountered. This group is directly tied to Jacob, time shifting, the “dust monster”, Dharma, and, most tellingly, the four toed statue. I think that it may be this third group that attacked danielle-karl-alex.
It doesn’t really make a lot of sense for either Ben or the crew on the freighter to have done it. Based on the way that the attack was carried out, there was a high risk that Alex might have been killed. If it were Ben, he would have done it in a more precise way. And a group of trained soldiers does not need to use so much stealth against a woman and two teenagers.
To me, it looked and sounded like the shots were fired from a BLOW DART gun rather than automatic weapons. We haven’t seen anyone use that weapon before. That has me thinking native islander…
I may be proven wrong in a month, but it’s a theory.
Comment by dashed18 — March 21, 2008 @ 11:47 pm
I like the idea that there could be countless groups (main characters and tail section crash survivors, Others who can get off the island frequently and those that can’t, good frieghters and bad freighters, Dharma and…). The story was and is most compelling when the characters work out their existential angst as they try to relate to “others.”
That’s part of the reason I loved Tom’s “backstory.” Nobody has been openly gay on the show until now — yet homosexuality stirs up so much psychic garbage and fear about others…
Along these lines, I disagree that the writers made a good decision in aiming for series closure. The open ended structure fit the writing much better, allowing for mind-boggling orders of complexity to be imagined and (left gratifyingly unresolved) between characters, between island features, etc. No way is it going to be possible to create a story that does not become ever more predicatble as the final episodes role along (I can almost imagine Widmore’s death scene now). Not that there won’t be plenty of unresolved mysteries, but working towards closure will turn off many who relish the opportunity to fantasize that their personal theories are correct. And let’s not pretend for a moment that the writers are not and have not always been making the story up as they go along — Ben was going to be a one or two episode character, Jack was going to die in the first episode, etc. Now they have to try to convince themselves that it all coheres in a readily explainable yet weird fashion at the same time. Tall order. I’m pulling for them, though, but I don’t mind if they keep adding layers of unfathomable and improbable inter-relatedness between characters, suggesting unanswerable quesions and and resisting the temptation to work towards an ending that pretends to be coherent.
Comment by locke_look_alike — March 22, 2008 @ 12:49 am
Dont know if anyone mentioned it yet but Michael never actually pulled the trigger to off himself until after Tom had taken the gun away from him and given it back. Could he have doctored it or switched it for a fake? I love the way the writers sometimes give you a logical explaination and a supernatural one at the same time. Could be that Tom and Ben were just really messing with him.
Also is the temple the others went to a dharma place or possibly related to the ruins of the giant foot statue seen by Sayid, Jin, and Sun at the end of season 2?
Comment by laxhood — March 22, 2008 @ 1:12 am
ben has killed innocent people, the whole dharma gang and his dad!
Comment by bobby — March 22, 2008 @ 1:56 am
Who is this Annie you all talk about, the one Ben loved?. I thought that when the therapist said, “you look just like her” and Ben tell Juliet “You ar mine” that Juliet looks like Ben’s dead mom. I mean it would go with is profile, he never had his mother, he saw her in the island as a ghost and he could never “have her”, just a thought.
Another thing since the Black Rock things appearing, the book That Hanso previously owned and Widmore buys in the auction. I was thinking remmember the guy Ben talks to when he is a kid, running after his mom in the jungle. The same guy that 10 or so years later when ben gases everyone, and another 10 years I assume when they bring Locke to see his father….HE LOOKS THE SAME NO AGING…could he be like one of the crew of the black rock he looked very sailor like when he met Ben in the jungle when he was a kid?
Just some questions, by the way did you guys realize what year it was exactly when Jin buy the panda…the store owner tells him buy a dragon its the year of the dragon (2000)…..we find out later that is a flashback when he says he has been only 2 months married…
bye
Comment by DHeb — March 22, 2008 @ 7:38 am
Just a note to people asking about the Ben and Alix thing: Ben obviously “adopted” Alix she was taken. Even though they are not biologically father and daughter, he did raise her for 16 years so it makes sense that they still refer to each other as father and daughter.
Micheal is on the boat to die. He clearly is wracked with guilt for what he did and believes if the follows Ben’s instructions, he’ll finish his “duty” to the island and be allowed to die.
And, no, I don’t think Russo is dead. The promos said someone will die and clearly that was Carl.
Comment by Yasuru — March 22, 2008 @ 9:27 am
I am sorry I have to say I am MORE than disgusted with this episode!!! I cannot believe that I was almost excited to see a Libby return or a younger Walt sighting or to see who would die! For one, the Libby return was AWFUL!! How the hell are they going to bring a loved character back like that!? If it was too haunt Michael, then why not get Ana Lucia too! This was a ridiculous way of bringing back someone we all obviously was excited to see again!! Second, what the hell was up with that apparently NOT Walt younger stand in!! How hard is it to take the REAL Walt’s face and at least CG place it on to whoever the hell that kid was!!?? Third, the whole “cliffhanger” killing off of Carl or Danielle was absolutely STUPID!! I was “almost” excited to see another hatch/area of the island but when they got there and I saw how dreamy/heavenly the area was I was like WTF!? Then the dialog leading up to the shootings was obviously building up to that scene! It was SO predictable! I kept telling myself that I was surely wrong, but when it happened I was SO close to just turning off my tv. How the hell are you going to go and kill either Carl or Danielle or both? They are both great characters and I feel like the writers are just looking for ways to entice us into watching each episode by teasing with elements that fans want to see and then leaving us hanging with more questions, doubts, and frustrations!? I am sorry, but by far this is the worst episode I have seen since being an avid fan since the beginning! I am so disappointed and to think that this could have possibly been a finale because of the writers strike! I WOULD have stopped watching the show if it had been the last episode! Season 4 better kick it up a notch or the creators are going to be losing a lot more fans and viewers due to their loose end story telling and no care attitude when it comes to how this show could be so much more better! See you on this mini break flipside, when it returns. Namaste
Comment by LOST no more — March 22, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Dashed18: that is exactly what I have been telling my wife for years. I believe they are responsible for the whispers and that they exist on the Island almost right in front of everyone, but they are veiled. When one of them needs to make contect, they simply step out from behind the ” curtain “. I have more thoughts on this, but I am on the way out the door. Oh, i always refer to them as the other “others”.
Comment by dolce — March 22, 2008 @ 11:46 am
I say that Ben didn’t set them up. I just watched Meet Kevin Johnson and Ji Yeon and when they cut to the freighter, you hear people in the back talking about Lapidus and where he went. Someone says that he ran an errand. To where? The person responds with something to the affect of where else is he going to go? We’re way too far to go anywhere but the island. I say Lapidus brought the strike team with him and dropped them off. They are the ones in the woods that shot Karl and Rousseau. That is why it is relevant that we were told that they would use Alex to get Ben. The writers would not have put that in there otherwise.
And Sayid sucks. Michael saved Desmond’s life (my favorite character), by letting them out of sickbay so they could get to the radio room.
Comment by Kevin — March 22, 2008 @ 12:38 pm
An observation…
Has anyone noticed that the 2 main ‘henchmen’ on the freighter - Keamy and Omar - look an aweful lot like the 2 ‘henchwomen’ from the Looking Glass station, Bonnie and Greta? Even down to the way they are dressed. And even down to their actions and rolls - blonde Keamy (like Bonnie) is the more outspoken, more hotheaded one and raven Omar (like Greta) is the sidekick who often responds in expressions rather than actual dialogue.
Just wonder if anyone else noticed this. I am sure it is probably just a coincidence. Or maybe…
Comment by LostinTranslation — March 22, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
All the people on the freighter were given pictures and profiles of EACH of the oceanic 815 people, and micheal was on the list, as was his picture… so some of the people on the boat must had known that it was actually micheal and not this “kevin johnson” - stacey
Where did you come across this (was it mentioned on the show, and if so when, or did you read this, and if so where? If that is the case then this is a good point and folks on the freighter should know who Michael/Kevin is.
Comment by LostinTranslation — March 22, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
“Where did you come across this (was it mentioned on the show, and if so when, or did you read this, and if so where? If that is the case then this is a good point and folks on the freighter should know who Michael/Kevin is”.`LostinTranslation
I actually posted something to this effect BEFORE “Stacey”, however, “I” noted that Lapidus had memorized the manifest and Miles was familiar with the names and faces of the passengers (He was familiar with Kate, though ‘without’ a photo, unlike Ben and Desmond). A much more interesting question is: “Why are we assuming that it was the others who arrowed Rousseau and Karl?”. Perhaps this is a segue into an introduction to our four-toed friends; at the Temple, maybe? The others KNOW who Karl is, so they are less than likely to kill on contact; remember they usually take “Those” type of orders from Ben.
Comment by JoeLiberty — March 22, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
JoeLiberty -
That still doesn’t answer why those folks aren’t calling Kevin out as Michael.
And I notice a lot of folks think the henchmen from the freighter are the ones who shot/killed Rousseau and Karl [Lapidus's secret mission with them], so there are other theories floating around about the gunmen. But this makes me think of my other question [see posting at 1:03pm].
What do you think about the appearance/characterization/comparison between the 2 freighter guys and the 2 chicks in the Looking Glass station? I’d love to hear your thoughts. Again, to get a better idea of what the @#$% I’m talking about refer to my previous post.
Comment by LostinTranslation — March 22, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
It seems very obvious that although our first reaction would be that Karl and Rousseau were shot by the “others” and for us to suspect Ben of setting them up, actually it is the opposite…
Ben actually was trying to protect them, and it was Lapidus and the Freighter team who came by HELICOPTER to Kidnap ALEX and use her as a pawn to get to Ben, as Ben feared. This was the “errand” that the Captain sent Lapidus on last episode.
This is also a very clever turn, because just as BEN used WALT as Blackmail to get to Michael, now Karma will cause Ben to have to be compromised and Blackmailed using the fear of harming Alex against him.
It would be really even more interesting if we would find out that it was actually Michael’s idea to use Alex as a pawn to get to Ben as Michael’s Ultimate Revenge against Ben, and that Michael had at some point told the Captain of the freighter everything, and suggested kidnapping Alex to get Ben, and in this way save all the bloodshed. This may be why the Captain didn’t even blink when Sayid him about Michael.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — March 22, 2008 @ 7:50 pm
Okay, a few answers to some questions. I know some of these have been answered before, but they deserve reitteration.
JoeLiberty - I dont know what you think a manifest is, but it doesnt include pictures.
Now, some have mentioned that everyone was given the photos and profiles of the people on 815. Was it everyone or was it just Naomi? Who yes, should also have then called Michael on his alias when they met.
AMB - Libby is the only one haunting Michael because the actress playing her didnt get a DUI and go to jail and the Ana Lucia actress did
SalmonKing - you mention that the communications on the island are reportedly down when Ben is making that call. And he said people couldnt come and go, but then we see Tom off island. Well, Ben might have just lied. He does that from time to time. And in fact, do we know that the communications were down and he wasnt just jamming things the whole time from the Looking Glass? Which, if it was just him jamming stuff, would explain why he can make calls whenever he wants. Although the time line of everything that happened in this episode makes my head hurt.
Gary - Michael says, I am here to die because he means it. he thinks that by doing this for Ben, he will be redeeming himself to the island and will be able to kill himself.
Glen - I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being facetious about Anderson Cooper having another job. In case you really dont know, he is on this little network called CNN. Has been for years. There are other stations than ABC out there. Though not much worth watching and certainly little else as good as Lost.
To a bunch of people - if there are other others I may have to shoot myself. I found the idea that no one ran into one another when they do quite a bit of exploring in season 1 laughable and if after 3 and a half seasons of running around EVERYWHERE and meeting hundreds of people there are more people they have not run across, my head will spin off from shaking it to much. And guy who does the original posts, I loved your backhanded comment about there still being undiscovered parts of the island. How big is this island exactly?
And just a note to everyone - GRAMMAR PEOPLE! I can live with non-capitalization and no puncuation and even spelling mistakes. But learn how to use too and to and while you are at it their, they’re and there and your and you’re too.
Comment by lostasanyoneelse — March 22, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
lostasanyoneelse — I may not have articulated myself clearly enough — but the show almost always works best when differences between groups are revealed and differet factions are forced to negotiate or do battle. So there may not be huge populations as yet to be introduced (who have been roaming the island or looking for it or accidentally disovering it) so much as there may be continuous factionalization of the groups we alrady know — the others amongst us make for the true intrigue. That said, I think there is room for a few more introductions before the writers work up to and present the climax and denouement.
Comment by locke_look_alike — March 22, 2008 @ 11:57 pm
Oh, and if it will make any difference at all –
Please, writers, no more Libby. Let her go or make her a truly ghoulish presence. We do not need an annoying Star Trek Next Generation-esque smarmy empath schmatzing things up just as the story is getting serious.
Comment by locke_look_alike — March 23, 2008 @ 12:04 am
i have a hard time believing gay Tom about Widmore staging the plane crash. i mean i know things can be covered up but surely whoever sold Widmore the plane would get a little bit suspicious when a plane crash is found not long after he sold someone the exact same plane!
Also, Widmore got the bodies from a Thailand grave site, surely to god there would be some mention of 300+ thai corpses going missing!! it just doesnt seem believable to me!
I found the episode poor considering it was a mini finale. The more i think about the end scene with Alex shouting im bens daughter its obviously going to be the Freighties shooting at them but i would have preferred more action seeing as though i have to wait 5 weeks for the next episode.
So all in all i thought it was a little bit of a damp squib in terms of being a great watch
Comment by Michael — March 23, 2008 @ 2:13 am
Ben uses Michael’s regret over Libby and Ana Lucia to manipulate him. He then uses Sayid’s (coming) guilt over the consequences of outing Michael to manipulate him. Classic Ben.
I also seem to recall that Ben, when talking to Michael, makes a comment about the lengths we go to protect our children (paraphrase, not quote), feels in retrospect like a bit of foreshadowing that may point to him as the guy behind Karl’s death. Karl’s. I also refuse to believe Danielle is dead (though, I did like the idea of Richard or Ben doing a flashback that tells her story).
Last comment: I too noticed Danielle holding her abdomen when she was with Claire and the baby. I think it’s just the actress being an amazing actress. Danielle’s (more than) a tiny bit crazy. She’s got her daughter back, but was still without her for many, many years. She’s a mom who’s just now getting to be with her child. She lost all that time with Alex as a baby (which she can never get back). I think that she is grieving over that loss. Again, just an amazing actress. I saw her in an interview on the Lost S3 bonus disc and she looks totally different; she tranforms into Danielle…
Comment by tomfishstory — March 23, 2008 @ 5:43 am
The episode was interesting on first watch, but it didn’t hold up on second viewing. Too many far reaches. Just too much suspension of disbelief for this viewer (and I love Lost, it is the only show on TV I watch).
We don’t get any kind of hint even about how Michael got from the island to Manhattan. It just isn’t believable that he would be able to enter the country let alone be set up in an apartment in New York with no ID or money and no questions asked.
We didn’t need to see so much about suicide attempts in such detail. I was a suicide prevention worker and that kind of thing is not something you play around with. We were shown at least 4 separate attempts, some in play by play detail, like pawning a watch for a gun, even loading it and so on.
We get no adequate explanation of how Tom could be in New York at a penthouse “indulging” as he put it with a lover and food and drink when during this period we saw him actively involved in the keeping of Jack, Kate, and Sawyer, and in the plot about Ben’s surgery. How could Tom be zooming off to New York when so involved in all of that on the island? Doesn’t compute. Or is a real stretch to make sense of.
We don’t really get enough convincing psychological motive for Michael agreeing to work for Ben. It just doesn’t make sense that he would given his character. And even in terms of the given reasons, if he carries out the “work” of blowing up the boat as he thinks he was supposed to, he would not live to see his boy feel that he had redeemed himself. Just doesn’t wash.
We get absolutely no explanation for why Sayid would decide all of a sudden to trust the captain and turn Michael in. It made no sense at all. Sayid’s character is usually suspicious and cautious and able to keep secrets. Look how he handled Michael before. He somehow knew that Michael had been compromised and only approached Jack and only when he had a plan of action and swore Jack to secrecy. It makes no sense that on a boat with strangers whom he doesn’t trust he would suddenly not even talk to Desmond at all or formulate a plan, but instead he would be all he-man and grab Michael by a twisted arm and push him into the captain’s cabin. Please someone tell me how that makes any sense.
And the shootings at the end…just cheap shots…sorry for the pun.
Comment by island — March 23, 2008 @ 8:53 am
ISNT ANYBODY CURIOUS AS TOO WHO ACTUALLY SHOT DANEILLE AND KARL BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THE FREIGHTER HADNT EVEN GOT TO THE ISLAND YET .. OR IS IT THE OTHERS WHO HAVE SHOT DANEILLE AND KARL BECAUSE BEN DOESNT WANT THEM GO TO THAT SANCTUARY PLACE HE’S TALKING ABOUT???
GET BK WITH YOUR THEORIES plz
Comment by JASON — March 23, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
The episode sets us up to wonder about that so of course viewers are going to wonder. It is just that there are a lot of other things to talk about and that was a thrown in part, almost as an afterthought. I didn’t think it worked well because usually side stories have some relation to the main part. This was tangential at best.
People have shared some theories already. I don’t know that there is much mystery here. It is either the Others or the people from the freighter. The only people that we know of besides those two are the Losties and they wouldn’t have the fire power or the motivation or the knowledge to shoot them.
The Others may have a way of communicating with Ben somehow. After all there was Harper’s appearance to Juliet. And we don’t know exactly how close they got to their vicinity. So maybe they just stumbled onto them or maybe it was a trap. If it is the Others then the last gesture of Alex to announce she is Ben’s daughter will turn out to be a no starter because they wouldn’t have a reason to shoot her, though they might very well have intended to harm Danielle and Karl, whether by Ben’s instructions or not.
The people from the freighter do have people on the island already, and the helicopter went on another unnamed mission so we don’t really know where it is or who is on it. I believe we are being lead to think it is they because of Alex’s announcement, but that may be because she believes it is they not because it really is. It could be all a ruse. Or they could be there to take her hostage. Either way, it seems kinda trivial compared with the other issues raised by the episode. And there are other posts that deal with these theories.
Comment by island — March 23, 2008 @ 1:09 pm
silly question but if the island won’t let michael die, is tom really dead?
also, i felt the constant was a better episode that this one. i guess i was expecting more. and the ending had me wanting more. why end the episode like that?
i hope danielle is not dead. i too am looking for a flashback episode for her. it would be interesting to see how she got to the island and if she has a conection to whitmore?
Comment by julie h. — March 23, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
ISNT ANYBODY CURIOUS AS TOO WHO ACTUALLY SHOT DANEILLE AND KARL BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THE FREIGHTER HADNT EVEN GOT TO THE ISLAND YET .. OR IS IT THE OTHERS WHO HAVE SHOT DANEILLE AND KARL BECAUSE BEN DOESNT WANT THEM GO TO THAT SANCTUARY PLACE HE’S TALKING ABOUT???
GET BK WITH YOUR THEORIES plz
Posted By JASON | March 23, 2008 12:41 PM
I’ll try to answer some of your questions Jason because I know how it feels to be left out when you post on here thinking that from the hundreds of people that post their opinion someone might get back to you which is a 20% probability. Trust me, been there and no one answers any of my questions on here. There might be a BIG chance that the one’s who shot Danielle and Karl are in fact the Freighters. Remember in the one scene when I think it was Keamey telling Frank not to be late because Frank was going to take the chopper and fly a bunch of them to the island. My bets are that Keamey and Omar are part of the group. So in conclusion they were flown there because the Freighters engines are temporarily out thanks to Michael aka “Kevin Johnson”. I sincerely doubt that the Others shot them. I think Richard wouldn’t go for it AND the Others never had “sniper-rifles” as weapons. It has to be the Freighters or perhaps an unknown force we havn’t met yet. We’re going to have to wait until April 24th Jason. Hope this helped a bit.
Comment by Franky — March 23, 2008 @ 10:14 pm
I find the reasoning for why Jin, Karl, and Danielle cannot be dead interesting. It’s worth looking at a few things and going with the most plausible. Let me know what you think.
JIN: I think everyone is an agreement that the tombstone is a fake - he “died in the crash” a la Jack’s testimony at Kate’s trial. That means he most likely in one two places: 1. on the island (maybe he had to stay behind to secure Sun’s safety. Maybe he died in this process as well.) 2. Jin works undercover for Ben (like Sayid). I think this is less likely since there could be “secret” meetings with Sun. So, I’m going with 1 for Jin (and leaning toward him actually dying to save Sun.)
KARL & ROUSSEAU: Given Ben’s extremely possesive nature (and resources) it seems much more likely that he (either personally or ordered) executed the hit on Danielle & Karl. Karl serves no real role in the show at all - unless he could tell us something about the Clockwork Orange Room 23 bit - so I see him as definitely dead. As far as Danielle is concerned, I’d sure LIKE to see her flashback, but it’s not like a “necessary condition” before killing a character. We may get more of Danielle’s history through Others’ flashbacks (e.g. Richard) if you believe the theory that Richard and Danielle were both members of the Black Rock. But that’s speculation. Either way, if they want to give us her back-story after she’s dead, they’ll find a way.
Also, now that they’ve called the boat, the future struggle is with the Freighties, Widmore, the real world. Rousseau has no plans to leave the island, so she’d be either eradicated or irrelevant.
And on a side note: I do NOT think Aaron is one of the 6. For everyone else it has been clearly states,but never for Aaron. So until they do, he’s “off the list”. There’s still one more. (and - just to head this off now - it can’t be Ben, Juliet, or Desmond - they were never on the plane, so they could not be one of the 6 survivors of Oceanic 815)
Comment by Scott — March 23, 2008 @ 10:37 pm
poor juliet
she was chosen to woo jack because she looked like his ex-wife
ben fancied her because she looked like someone (obviously that girl from his flashback)
and some guy with a dried up marital sex life used her for something dirty (eeewww)
shes also divorced
poor juliet
Comment by angry from cheadle — March 24, 2008 @ 6:41 am
So if Danielle is rouseau’s daughter, was she born on the island? Ben is the father, how did she live throught the pregnancy? Is there a timeline someone has that can help? I’m wondering how rouseau lived through the pregnancy and others are not. I am assuming she wasn’t bringing a new born on a science trip, if she was pregnant before she got to the island it means that her and ben were on the same science excursion, but in past episodes it shows him coming to island as a boy. Did he go back as a young adult and recruit her? I’m a little confused, anyone have ideas?
Comment by Canada scott — March 24, 2008 @ 6:50 am
Loved the episode! I felt it was just as strong as “The Constant”. It was fun, dark, and shocking. That’s a perfect Lost blend to me.
Comment by Michael James — March 24, 2008 @ 7:14 am
Am I stupid but I thought the oceanic six was already pretty obvious? Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun and Jin. Am I wrong to think this?
Comment by James — March 24, 2008 @ 7:18 am
jin cud be one of the O6 be cuz didnt jack or sumone say there was 8 survivours, 2 died on the island 1 died of the oceanic 6
is this wrong???????????
Comment by JASON — March 24, 2008 @ 7:59 am
Alex is Danielle’s daughter. She was stolen by Ben who raised her as his own.
Jin never made it off the island.
I’m not convinced Aaron is to be included as one of the Oceanic six. Who really knows about him, as he was never on the mainfest. And why is he with Kate? I don’t think Claire’s relatives know about Aaron’s survival. And I guess Jack still doesn’t know that he is Aaron’s uncle.
Comment by je suis lost — March 24, 2008 @ 9:14 am
Theres a Christmas tree in the background when Micheal is at the hospital, which confirms that it is around Christmas.
Comment by Walt, the Locke helper — March 24, 2008 @ 9:52 am
I think “The Temple” is a new dharma station, not a literal temple.
Comment by Brandon — March 24, 2008 @ 10:06 am
Wow, what an episode. There is no way that I will be able to wait for the next Lost! I’m having some mixed feelings about Ben, though. He made me feel that he was a good guy when he told Michael that he ‘doesn’t kill innocent people’. But I agree with Scott that Ben does have some very possessive characteristics. However, it’s been quite a while since he killed that man Juliette was in love with, and I’m in doubt that he hasn’t changed…
I think the six are Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and Aaron.
I’m also determined that Claire will die. She’ll probably die on the trip off the island, and I guess Kate will take her son for her? I dont know. Claire isn’t a very prominent figure in the show, and other than being Jack’s half-sister (which is pretty useless information) she doesn’t really give off much use.
Comment by Michaela — March 24, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
I haven’t seen any comment about Meet Kevin Johnson pointing out the period of time that Michael must have had to spend recovering from the car crash. I re watched his conversation with his mother and when she mentions she didn’t know where he was for two months she means the time Michael spent on the island. It’s so weird that one minute he is badly hurt from the crash at the hospital and the next scene he is talking with his mother like nothing happened. I think she was talking about his time recovering AND about when they were on the island (please, re watch that scene). I do believe that the time Michael spent in New York was way longer than the period of time in the island since he left and when he got back on the boat. Any comments on this??
Comment by AlexG — March 24, 2008 @ 7:18 pm
It was a great episode….except for the crap that Tom is gay….eerrrrrrrrrrr!
Comment by marc — March 24, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
Did anyone see a bullet wound on Danielle? I didn’t. She got hit and fell. We don’t know if she’s even wounded, she could have been wearing some sort of protection, like a vest she found, and simply fell forward from the impact. We all know how paranoid she is.
Carl, however, had a hole blown clear through him. My guess? Danielle survives, Carl’s dead and gone, though. Doesn’t mean we won’t see him again in a flashback, though. The writers promised the actor as much when they told him they were killing him off (He left the show to do broadway for a while).
Comment by Super Mario — March 25, 2008 @ 9:59 am
Is this a sight for die-hard fans? HELLO!… thr Tom is gay reveal was 2 SEASONS AGO!
Comment by dolce — March 25, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
This is kind of late after the episode, but if anyone’s still reading these….
AlexG,
I was thinking the same thing. It seems like either more time has passed for Michael off the island than for the losties on the island (which makes sense with the screwed up island time) or Michael recovered very fast from that car crash. Or probably both. Any other thoughts?
Comment by AnotherOther — March 28, 2008 @ 7:34 am
Has anyone ever wondered who Carl is?I mean he is a teenager,who are his parents,how did he get there or how was he born?…..anyway…they were SHOT!SNIPER.
Mr.Friendly being gay is great it explains how Patchy lost his eye!
Comment by KS — April 2, 2008 @ 9:17 am
That sucks, Friggin ads telling you that someones going to die in the US. I am so glad that DL watch without ads and don’t get spoiled by your clearly spoilerish commercials. Here in OZ its usually a week behind the US, too many ads and sometimes they sex it up by telling u something that should honestly be a surprise anyway.
Comment by Waz — April 10, 2008 @ 10:13 am