Episode 4.2 “Confirmed Dead” Afterthoughts
When we last saw the castaways on Lost, they were split apart over the imminent arrival of the freighter people. Some people went with Jack, hoping for rescue, and others ran off with Locke, wary of the possible threat coming to the island. We also saw a flash forward glimpse of Hurley gone completely mental. He was chatting with a dead Charlie, proclaiming to be one of the Oceanic Six, and telling Jack that he thought they had to get back to the island.
Tonight, the group of potential rescuers finally landed on the island, but that certainly didn’t make things any easier for our favorite Losties.
One of the things I’ve been loving about Lost this season is how they’re not afraid to shake up their structure. Of course we knew there’d be flash forwards, but it’s also great to see multiple flashbacks like in tonight’s episode. The best episodes of Lost tend to be the ones that shake things up, which may be why I thought tonight’s introduction to the freighter crew was even better than last week’s premiere.
The episode got off to a fantastic start by showing us the wreckage of Flight 815. It’s an image we would see again later, when the new character of Frank Lapidus saw the report asking for information about the crash. My biggest problem with that scene was the fact that a respectable newscast would never linger on a moldy underwater skeleton, but that distraction didn’t take away from Frank’s revelation that he was supposed to be piloting 815 that day.
Do we believe him? Though we were introduced to the freighter people in this episode, it’s impossible to know if they’re trustworthy. They are after Ben, who is probably a bad guy, so maybe they’re on a virtuous mission. But they were also chosen by the supremely creepy Matthew Abaddon, and that man is about the last person in the world I would trust.
Before I get into the questions that the episode left us with, let’s take a look at the answers we received:
1) Yes, everyone on Flight 815 really was confirmed dead. Naomi said as much last season, but now we know for sure.
2) The people on the freighter have come to the island for Ben. We don’t know why, or if that’s really their only motive, but at least we know one reason they’re there.
3) The writers are acknowledging the fact that Walt was taller when he appeared to John. This is a good thing. I know there were some people out there thinking that Malcolm David Kelley’s growth spurt was a continuity gaffe, but now we can rule that out once and for all.
Speaking of continuity gaffes, Michael Ausiello over at TVGuide.com said that he spotted a major one. I have no idea what he’s talking about, so perhaps one of you eagle-eyed people can fill me in.
Another interesting turn that I didn’t expect was the fact that Miles was a ghost whisperer. At first I thought he might be taking a page from Michael J. Fox’s character in The Frighteners and faking his abilities, but it looks like he’s the real deal. That should provide an interesting element to future episodes. Maybe he can sit down and have a chat with Jacob, assuming Jacob is a ghost at all.
Of course, the biggest twist in the episode, at least in my opinion, was Charlotte’s discovery of a polar bear skeleton with a Hydra collar way out in the desert of Tunisia. What the heck? If anyone had been sitting in the room with me the moment I saw that, they would have heard the loud crack of my brain splitting apart as I attempted to comprehend it. Did the DHARMA Initiative have a Tunisian branch that we were unaware of, or is there some other explanation for this? Either way, those polar bears must have hated the desert heat.
Now that I look back on the episode, Daniel Faraday remains the biggest mystery. Why was he an emotional wreck as he watched the footage of Flight 815 being discovered? What connection does he have to the plane and the castaways?
It really was a night full of twists and revelations. The last thing to blindside us was the fact that Ben has a mole on the freighter, and therefore knows everything about those people. It could be anyone, so I’m not even going to wager a guess on who his informant is.
I realize that these afterthoughts are all over the place, but Lost has a tendency to scramble my brain and leave me spinning. To wrap up, here are the questions that I’d love to discuss with you guys for the next week:
Why was Faraday an emotional wreck?
What was the big continuity gaffe?
Did the freighter crew bring a gas mask expecting the sickness, or for another reason?
How did a polar bear skeleton end up in Tunisia, and how did its bones have time to fossilize?
Was Frank Lapidus really supposed to pilot 815?
Why did Abaddon choose that specific team of four?
Why do the freighter people want Ben?
Who is the mole that Ben has on the boat?
Did anyone give 1-888-548-0034 a call? I know I did.
Was there any significance to Faraday saying that the light didn’t scatter correctly in the jungle?
How cool was it to have a mention of the Christiane I, the boat from the Find 815 game?
If it’s not the body of Seth Norris in the plane wreckage, whose body is it?
Also, please try to stay away from spoilers when answering these questions. Though a lot of us love to ask questions and theorize until our brains explode, it takes the fun out of it if people blurt out all the answers.
http://www.docarzt.com/lost-theories/docs-lost-402-confirmed-dead-m.php
some cool ideas on who the mole is
Comment by Morty — February 7, 2008 @ 9:13 pm
why are the comments slowly deleting themselves now?
Comment by Doyousmellcarrots — February 7, 2008 @ 9:38 pm
according to the time stamps on the comments they are not deleting themselves they I’ve just gone back in time 3 hours.
Comment by Do you smell carrots — February 7, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
did anyone notice the “underwater plane” was showing the front section???? the front of the plane is on the island
Comment by Chris M — February 8, 2008 @ 4:47 am
did anyone notice the “underwater plane” was showing the front section???? the front of the plane is on the island
Comment by Chris M — February 8, 2008 @ 4:57 am
My theory.. 1. they want Ben because they are Dharma and he killed the original Dharma with gas *thus the gas masks*. Dharma wants the island back. Dharma knows the islands secrets. They sent people there that specialize in some of the mysteries of the island..
2. front of the plane .. wasn’t it mentioned in a previous episode last season by Ben (not that we can believe him) but I believe he said a fake plane crash was done so they would stop looking for any survivors. am I right on that..
Comment by Kellie H — February 8, 2008 @ 5:26 am
Kellie, I think that you are on the right track. Dharma does want the island back, and they are going to probably get it back sometime in the near future.
Comment by Justin G — February 8, 2008 @ 5:44 am
I too wondered about the underwater 815 - how could it be there when it’s on the island?? And if the moldy pilot is fake, then the underwater 815 must be fake to throw the public off-track?
And oh yeah - the island’s “light” is definitely meaningful somehow.
I love all the new characters - bravo! Excellent casting - strong actors and interesting characters!
Comment by Mark — February 8, 2008 @ 6:05 am
First time poster. Did anybody pick up on the physics references in the names of some of the newbies? Faraday is some times referred to as the father of electro-magnetism. Also, one of the newbies called the freighter and the person he was talking to was called Minkowski. Minkowski was a mathematician that developed a four dimensional space that was the basis for Einstein’s theory of relativity. Minkowski space is the 4D space that connects time and space (what you might have heard called the space-time continuum).
Could Michael be the informant on the freighter? At the end of season one, Ben sent Walt and Michael off the island using a bearing and said that a boat would pick them up…or something to that effect. It would be a great way to re-introduce the Michael character.
Comment by Jonathon T — February 8, 2008 @ 6:22 am
So last night finally gave me some clues as to what’s going on. It appears that the island might be in some kind of electromagnetic field that is slowing time. That they are essentially in some kind of time loophole. This would explain why Walt off the island has grown at a more rapid pace. It would explain why no one’s hair has grown significantly on the island. It would explain why Faraday says the light isn’t reflecting properly. It would explain why (in what’s supposed to be 90 days, Frank Lapidus was a seasoned pilot and now opened up a shop in some place in Bermuda). Also, it could also explain why Charlie had to turn off the signal for anyone to find the island. As time and the odd physical properties of the island were altered, it made it detectable. This would also explain why Dharma was trying all different kinds of experiments. To try and see how people react in an environment with bizarre man-made physical properties.
Could also explain the polar bear if the time properties were altered at a more rapid pace previously on the island. Could be the same polar bears that were on the island. A huge space/time experiment. Who knows!??!? My brain hurts!
Just my thoughts on things.
Comment by BK — February 8, 2008 @ 6:38 am
I think the eye in the cabin was John Locke’s.
I think he’s realized he can talk to Jacob (he said, when leading his group away from the barracks, something to the effect of “it’s what Jacob wants”). I think John’s hanging out at the cabin, and starting to take over what used to be Ben’s role on the island. I sense an interesting power struggle coming up here.
Comment by Steve — February 8, 2008 @ 6:42 am
first of all, the girl called farraday sam which leads me to believe he is the same sam who find815.com was all about. He is still searching for Sonya. He clearly was trying to remember his “name” when Jack asked him who he was.
second - It was season 2 when Walt and Michael were sent off the island but you are right that would be the perfect reintroduction. Yet who is on the boat? is it Annie? Is it Ben’s contact in the “real world” who gets the dossier’s on everyone? are they one and the same.
finally - for those who haven’t figured it out yet, the plane they found was a staged crash so that people would stop wanting to know what happened to flight 815. Sam was given the coordinates so he would have closure and stop looking. Either Oceanic wanted people to move on so they could have people fly them again or someone more sinister didn’t want anyone to find the island. Thats why the whole plane was found.
finally, what does the eye in the cabin (which is not John Lockes for various reasons discussed elsewhere) have to do with this thread?
Comment by eric s — February 8, 2008 @ 6:44 am
Im pretty sure the continuity gaffe was Tricia Tanaka being the newscaster on the TV at the start. She died when the asteroid hit Mr.Clucks in Hurleys season 3 flashback, so she shouldnt be alive and well.
Really enjoyed this episode, thought the new characters we’re great, especially jittery Faraday.
Comment by Nautical Rudie — February 8, 2008 @ 7:38 am
Following the “famous names” thing, Charlotte Staples Lewis could be a play on Clive Staples Lewis - C.S. Lewis, author of the Chronicles of Narnia - a book about another reality. Which seems a bit odd when you compare it to mathmatics and electro-magnetism. But who knows. This was a great episode, though the questions (polar bear fossil with a DHARMA necklace!?) are starting to make my brain bleed.
Comment by Bannen — February 8, 2008 @ 7:52 am
$100.00 Says the person on the inside is none other than……. MICHAEL DAWSON!
Comment by Extra — February 8, 2008 @ 8:06 am
$100.00 Says the person on the inside is none other than……. MICHAEL DAWSON!
Comment by Extra — February 8, 2008 @ 8:07 am
good catch Bannen!
you know, the whole thing with Narnia…while the children were gone for a year, a thousand years has passed upon their return in the sequel(or more - I might be mistaken)point is, time slip.
Comment by spike — February 8, 2008 @ 8:14 am
I know it was last weeks but i only caught it this week,
when jack and kate are looking at the plane on the island jake says something to the efeect of it seems like 100 years since we came here. could have to do with the space time theories. also if the polar bears can be fossils than what about the adam and eve fossils from awhile ago that people think could be jack and kate.
Comment by ibhazey4 — February 8, 2008 @ 8:31 am
Why is a picture of Mr. Echo from his childhood on display at Mrs. Garners’ house when Miles goes to speak with her grandsons ghost??
Comment by BoknowsLost — February 8, 2008 @ 8:37 am
I was just trying to find some connections between this episode and that last one. When that guy, Abaddon, came to Hurley and asked about “them” (”Are they still ther!?”)he probably meant his team, not the survivors.
why would he care about the survivors? Its either his team (which means they might not get off the island) OR more likely Ben and the other!
Any thoughts?
Comment by Mr Bombastic — February 8, 2008 @ 8:51 am
Mr Bombastic:
good catch.
Comment by ibhazey4 — February 8, 2008 @ 8:54 am
Boknowslost:
Why is a picture of Mr. Echo from his childhood on display at Mrs. Garners’ house when Miles goes to speak with her grandsons ghost??
Oh good so I wasn’t just imagining it….that was eko!!! And the ghosthunter dude (sorry, don’t know his name) found heroin behind his self…very weird indeed.
I’m really convinced that it has to do with something about a space/time continum. Someone tell me I’m wrong…it sounds too crazy to be true.
Comment by lbanks69 — February 8, 2008 @ 9:01 am
Sorry to be late to the party, but this one caught my attention:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday
Comment by Andy — February 8, 2008 @ 9:14 am
Miles has a striking resemblance to Dr. Marvin Candle. Look at his eyes in the close up shot of the car rear view mirror. Why else would they hold this shot so long?
Comment by el scotto — February 8, 2008 @ 9:37 am
It seems to me now that they are either dead or have been brought back to life by the island. Miles use a vacuum type thing to talk to the ladys grandson, so if this is an electromagnetic device that allows him to see the dead, then imagine what the electromagnetic power of the island can do. Maybe the losties get back home and realize they were supposed to die in that crash, or they are dead but people can see them (ala charlie). Obviously some people have certain powers related to this, such as ben, locke, hurley, walt, as does miles. Did you see the look on ben and lockes faces when hurley said he knew where the cabin was? Obviously there is the chance for great power here or ben wouldnt want to control everything so bad. My brain hurts. I hope we find out something really good before this season is over.
Comment by lovelost33 — February 8, 2008 @ 10:18 am
This episode was amazing, possibly the best thing possible is that ben said Charlotte was from Bromsgrove in England! Its only the town i live in! i will now be searching the streets for hidden lost clues!! Ace!
Comment by Matt — February 8, 2008 @ 10:30 am
The continuity gaffe was the fact that Locke’s kidney removal scar was missing
Comment by Mitch — February 8, 2008 @ 10:41 am
What if dharma figured out how to use the island’s natural phenomena to attempt time travel? Then something goes wrong and they open a nexus of space/time flux where Jacob gets stuck in. Kinda like a chronosynclastic infindibulum. To keep the universe from ceasing to be they do a quick fix of the computer which needed to be vented. When Desmond screws up and the plane is hit they create a nexus where time starts splitting into two possible chain of events. Maybe then blowing up the hatch made it worse. Some people are aware of this, like Hurley (who sees Ghosts/Dave etc who arent delusions but ‘crossovers from the other timeline). I believe the new Asian guy can see both timelines and that’s why Desmond had his visions. In one timeline i believe that everyone died and in the other, the 6 leave the island but to be haunted by the rifts in timespace.
Then you’ve got Jacob (who I think was the original person to get stuck in time space flux / chronosynclastic infindibulum) He can see past/present/future but can only phase in and out and relay orders to those on the island to fix everything. We may find out that Jack is actually Jacob, this i’m just throwing out there. What the key is that Locke and Jacob and possibly Jack when he clues in have to try their hardest to fix the space time flux and return everything back to normal.
I bet you anything that the last episode will show the characters boarding the plane, taking off and then landing in LA like nothing had happened. I also think that Jack will sacrifice himself to make that happen, a final ode to him ‘fixing things’.
This would make it possible for all of these events to happen and even that Asian guy could be someone who also sees both timelines?
Comment by Thiger — February 8, 2008 @ 11:22 am
Congratulations Thiger; possibly the most concise, yet thorough expalnation I have read in 3 years of lurking. I would ask that you give the Dharma connection more thought. Obviously they are itching to get their hands on Ben (information or revenge?) and the survivors are incidental. In the future Jack asks Hurley if he “told anyone”…obviously there is a shared secret that only the Oceanic 6 know about and that someone-thing is interested in keeping it that way. What is that mystery? Would appreciate your thoughts.
bbk
Comment by Big Kahuna — February 8, 2008 @ 11:39 am
Okay, first I’d like to comment on the ominous “eye in the window,” since someone brought that up. The eyes staring out the window at Jacob’s house are blue-green eyes (we have a 60” TV with HD) and he has sort of an afro or some sort of blackish hair. Basically, it really, really, really looks like Ben. My fiancé and I watched this frame by frame on our TV last night. Then, we saw Ben’s watery blue eyes so clearly in the light of day when Ben is trying to save himself from getting shot by Locke. The eye in the window could seriously be Ben’s.
Also, regarding Jacob’s cabin in “The Beginning of the End,” does anyone know what the picture in the corner of the wall is? My fiancé thinks it looks like a twelve-year-old boy, with the head of a huge dog, sitting upright in a chair. I know nothing about dogs and won’t pretend to. It appeared to be the type of dog that has big brown and white spots with a short nose. I do apologize if this has been discussed before.
Imelda (Sawyer nickname-generated name)
Comment by Sun — February 8, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
Two of the best moments from last night’s episode were Sayid and Juliet rushing out of the bushes firing warning shots at Miles and Daniel and the other was simply enjoying the look on Charlottes face while Ben was telling the castaway’s who she really is. >:)
Comment by Franky — February 8, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
If i recall correctly Ben has not left the Island. The Picture miles was holding clearly shows him going through an airport security check.
Did anyone else notice that
Comment by D — February 8, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
if you have seen the “rabbit” Dharma training video, the two planes make more sense… both planes are flight 815 and the one in the ocean was not staged
link to video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI
Comment by abacus — February 8, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
I think someone above mentioned that a fake plane crash was simulated so they would stop searching for survivors of 815. Since Frank Lapidus was supposed the be the pilot - the simulated corpse of the pilot resembled Frank Lapidus rather than the actual pilot. The underwater camera focused on the pilot’s hands and Frank realizes that the actual pilot’s wedding band is missing (I can’t remember his name) so he calls Oceanic and complains to the supervisor that that isn’t the pilot. I’m guessing that the corpse actually resembles Frank who was supposed to pilot the plane. I think the crash scene is staged and relatives will be told that recovery is not possible. Therefore the corpses will not be disburbed and their coverup would have been successful if not for Frank’s keen eye.
Comment by Mimi — February 8, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
someone posted that after reviewing season 1 the pilot didn’t have a ring either. the training video references the kasmir effect, which essentially is matter/anti-matter blah, blah, blah. i think that the survivors are the anti-selves, which is why Locke can walk and why Hurley tells Jack that they shouldn’t have left the island.
it’s fun to speculate…
Comment by abacus — February 8, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
Thiger:
Fantastic theory, mate! I agree with Big Kahuna, its the best theory I have read so far. Even though it sounds a little obscure, it totally sounds like something JJ and Damien would write! Its scientific, believable, complex, and it fits the pattern we see on lost.
I’m only struggling to apply your theory to two things:
1- “smoky” the smoky monster
2- how your theory ties with the last scene of season 3 finale “We have to go back, Kate!”
Awaiting your thoughts
Comment by Mr Bombastic — February 8, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
I rewatched the episode and I think the continuity gaffe might be the way they spelled Tunisia on Sharlotte’s flasback. When the flasback beggins, on the screen appears Medenine, Tunisia. Yet when she looks at the newpaper it is clearly spelled Tunisie. I checked online and both are acceptable so I guess Ausiello saw that and thought it was a continuity error.
Comment by echoblaster — February 8, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
The Hydra polar bear in Tunisia only goes to make me think that the Vile Vortices theory is correct - something I’ve suspected since (a) the Antartica station picked up a signal and (b) Mr Eko’s brother’s plane disappeared in Africa….
If you don’t know about the Vile Vortices, they are 12 areas on the surface of the Earth in which anomalies may occur including disappearances. One of the more famous ones is the Bermuda Triangle.
I think that the Island is not in our dimension at all (note the reference to how the light scatters differently by Faraday) and instead is a nexus connected to the Vile Vortices…
More info on a map here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vile_Vortices
Comment by Ian — February 8, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Why would Ben be at an airport when his form of travel would have been his submarine? I thought he never left the island after he was taken in by the Others? So many photo’s these people have including the one of Desmond with Penny.
Comment by Franky — February 8, 2008 @ 2:39 pm
@ Ian: I looked up the “Vile Vortices” theory that you mentioned and it actually looks plausible. That square in Africa is right over part of Tunisia, and the Artic station is also located in one of the squares. And there’s a square east of Australia that was probably in the plane’s path, which would perfectly explain the disappearance.
Comment by Sugarpop — February 8, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
1. Why was Faraday an emotional wreck?
I hear of people watching TV shows all the time and then automatically, without even realizing it, they are an emotional wreck. Usually, this happens when a woman is watching Oprah and someone is relaying a traumatic story of their rape, and the woman goes bolistic without knowing why. Normally, this means the woman watching may have gone through a similar experience years ago, but blocked out the entire episode as a defense mechanism. The memory is buried so deep in one’s unconscious, they had no idea it happened.
So, Dan Faraday… perhaps he knows, subconsciously, he was related to someone on the specified Oceanic 815 flight. Or, maybe he was supposed to BE on that plane… or his mother/daughter/father/son/who-knows(?) was supposed to be on that plane? In any case, there is something going on at a much deeper level inside of him. Of course, these are just theories… there is an infinite amount of possibilities….
2. What was the big continuity gaffe?
Was it the supposed scar on John’s back?
3. Did the freighter crew bring a gas mask expecting the sickness, or for another reason?
Okay, I’m going deep now….
My fiancé and I believe that the Freighter Four (Oooooh. I like that… I think I’ll get it registered… LOL) are all children of the people living on the island when the Dharma people first came to experiment. What this means is that all fours’ parents were killed by Ben when he gassed everyone, while wearing a gas mask, himself! If Ben murdered their parents (and everyone else), en masse, that would explain their motivation to find the island, and most importantly, find Ben. I think this is a revenge mission, fully intact with gas masks and all. They plan to do to Ben what he did to their parents/families.
So, were the Freighter Four planning to gas everyone on the island, which is why no Oceanic 815 survivors existed in their minds? Now that they know there are survivors, will they go through with it? Are they really going to try to rescue them so that they don’t get gassed as well? Lots of questions….
4. How did a polar bear skeleton end up in Tunisia, and how did its bones have time to fossilize?
I definitely agree with Thiger on the space/time thing. I am definitely interested in learning more about electromagnetism and that type of physics now that we recognize all the characters’ names. I loved the Hieronymous site someone posted yesterday. Someone referenced Hieronymus Bosch (http://www.artchive.com/artchive/B/bosch.html ), the 15th century painter, and his “Garden of Earthly Delights.” BUT, I think the “Lost” reference is to T. G. Hieronymous, the guy who introduced Eloptic Energy (http://www.rexresearch.com/hieronym/1hieron.htm ).
5. Was Frank Lapidus really supposed to pilot 815?
I say yes, which is why he feels the need to explore what really happened to the Oceanic 815 pilot.
6. Why did Abaddon choose that specific team of four?
I think all of their parents were killed by Ben. Also, each of the Freighter Four has a special ability. According to Naomi, the team consists of “a head-case, ghost-buster, an anthropologist, and a drunk.” In typical John Hughes fashion, each of the Freighter Four has an alternate name a la “the Breakfast Club,” which summed each of the FIVE detained students by giving them aliases: Claire Standish, “the Princess,” Andrew Clark, “the Athlete,” Brian Johnson, “the Brain” (anagram of Brian), John Bender, “the Criminal,” and Allison Reynolds, “the Basket-Case.” Hmmmmmmm. Weren’t they the Freighter Five before Naomi died? Since we already know that Daniel Faraday is the basket-case, Charlotte Lewis is the princess, and Naomi is the brain, is Miles Straume the athlete and Frank Lapidus the criminal? Wow! If you search “John Hughes,” the writer/director/producer, you will find he made the movies, “Home Alone 2: LOST in New York” (1992) and “Nature: The Living Edens: The LOST World” (2003). What is this? Does this mean I discovered an Easter egg or something?
7. Why do the freighter people want Ben?
As I stated above, Ben killed their parents by gassing them and they are back to do the same.
8. Who is the mole that Ben has on the boat?
I haven’t thought too much about it… Michael would be a great way to go.
9. Did anyone give 1-888-548-0034 a call? I know I did.
I just called the number… nicely done!
10. Was there any significance to Faraday saying that the light didn’t scatter correctly in the jungle?
Come on! It’s “Lost!” Of COURSE there is validity and double-meaning to his statement. Miles is psychic AND he can sense things and it’s obvious there is something going on that is paranormal/spiritual/outer-worldly, etc. It seems that something is blocking the sun’s rays. I wonder what (or who) that is.
11. How cool was it to have a mention of the Christiane I, the boat from the Find 815 game?
I just recently started playing. It’s pretty damn cool to us, Losties.
12. If it’s not the body of Seth Norris in the plane wreckage, whose body is it?
I don’t think it’s a body at all. It looked like everything underwater was planted there. Perhaps there are fake bodies? If not, I guess this will make the story even more interesting… you KNOW they will have to give us a flashback about the dead pilot.
Imelda (Sawyer-generated nickname)
Comment by Imelda — February 8, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
I apologize for the length of my last post.
Comment by Imelda — February 8, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
The thing that really got me last night was when Locke was showing his bullet wound and speculated that since the gunshot went right through the part of his abdomen vacated by his stolen kidney, his life was basically SAVED by his father. That had to knock him for a loop when he realized that,
Comment by Slow — February 8, 2008 @ 3:49 pm
I am SO into the Vile Vortices theory
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Vile_Vortices_(theory)
It does make perfect sense with all goings on of the island. People/animals/crafts are always dropping into the strangest places on this island. Plus, how would we see a cow, horse, polar bear, etc. if they weren’t from another dimension? Now, I’m going to have to read more about the 12 Vile Vortices because the idea is just toooooo cool!
Imelda
Comment by Sun — February 8, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
I dont know what a polar bear would be doing in the desert… but it shows that dharma has been around alot longer than we expected..!!! Unless( i just got this idea as im writing this) the peaple digging and brushing at that fossile site work for dharma and the hydra tag on the fossile was planted there by them.. just so people know its dharmas??!!
i totally agree with the bloke that said that the ” freighter 4″ were children of people working for dharma!!..I also believe he sent those 4 to get ben because that black guy was or is working for dharma!! But i want to know when the pic of ben was taken that miles had.. if you see bens flashback in season three “the man behind the curtain”, it seems that everybody around that place was always wearing there dharma uniforms and so was been when he was older.. was it after the “purge” or before that, that the photo was taken??? Maybe one of the dharma employees knew that ben was planning something so they took a photo of him to send to Dharma HQ( where ever that is). Maybe it was taken after the “purge” and dharma had a mole that was living with the others??!!
I still cant wait to find out why the losties are still alive(as far as we know) and the rest of the world sees that the plane is at the bottem of the ocean?? The best theory i have on this is that i think that ben maybe got some1 to “plant” that plane there so no one would come looking for survivors!!! I know i know its a bit unbelievable for a plane to get planted somewhere… but apparently ben is a powerful man!!!
Let me know what you think???
Comment by Nath!! — February 8, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
Hey, I’m a woman, not a “bloke.”
Comment by Im — February 8, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Polar Bears in the desert! She said they were very OLD. Im thinking Time travel.Remeber the bunny in the mobisode appearing twice. Think Marty in Back to the future 3. Jack an Hurley want to go back to the island in the future.(Hurly says to makes the comment while listening to music over the radio with Sayid maybe its from another time dude no just kidding). Maybe they are not supposed to leave so they will not alter future events.Just a thought
Comment by Brad — February 8, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
What was up with the phone call between Miles and “Regina” on the freighter( towards the end of the episode)? It sounds exactly like Naomi….check it out.
Comment by Josh from NY — February 8, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
I dont know about this all ben says is Because i have a man on there frieghter …i was thinking hear me out that he was actually saying he had jacob captive and that is what the frieght people are truely trying to accomplish is capuring him for dharma (him being jacob jacob being some kind of supreme being) this would explain why jacob told locke “help me” this is why the plane was brought to the island by jacob because the select few people that can see jacob were on that plane and survived.we know hurley and locke can see him but i beleive walt can see him also because one of the early episodes says how walt is special…refering to i believe his ability to talk and see jacob….Also i think the 4 people chosen to go to the island are actually being used by dharma for alternitive motives then what they beleive and that dharma actually are the bad people they tried to control jacob and his powers once and ben helped them wipe dharma out now ben has gone rouge and or something maybe this is why jacob turns to locke. adding on to this theory, the black man(dharma…=bad) sends naomi with them (4 people whojust arrived) to continue to manipulate keeping them inline…well let me know what you think sorry its all over the place…but let me sum it up ben and dharma are trying to keep jacob captive naomi sent by dharma with 4 members not dharma (being manipuleted) to find ben kill him and that would make it an easy take over for dharma to pick up where ben left off keeping jacob captive that is why jacob told locke to kill naomi
Comment by Lostlovenhomie — February 8, 2008 @ 6:16 pm
I can’t believe with all the name talk, no one mentioned Matthew ABADDON! ABADDON, come on!! Check this out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbadon
Comment by Michelle — February 8, 2008 @ 6:59 pm
any Stephan King fans out there who see a connection with his Dark Tower stories and LOST? In Mid-world, King’s DT world,light seams funny like Faraday said when he got to the island. A strange group of misfits lead by a ‘gunslinger’ type, AKA Naomi is set out on a quest, AKA King’s Katet. any thoughts?
Comment by Mark — February 8, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
Mark,
Me and my brother have always caught the similarities between Lost and the Dark Tower series. I think you’re on to something.
Comment by mike — February 8, 2008 @ 8:52 pm
Has anyone thought that Dan may be an empath, with a unique ability to take on the emotions of others when they are intense enough? Think about his reaction to the TV story, the helicopter when it was out of control, and his reaction when Miles pulled the gun, everytime his reaction was unexpected and irrational. I think each one of the members of the rescue party may be a “key” to unlocking cerebus, which is why the Dharma initiative has each one of the types of research stations, The three headed monster, three types of talents, now three leaders on the island (Ben, Locke, and Jack). Jacob should be threatened, they’re about to steal smokie!
Comment by JonJon — February 8, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
Another possible connection bewtween Charlotte Lewis is Lewis Caroll, who wrote Alice and Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, which was a major reference to the Season three finale.
I think that they want Ben because he basically killed all of the Dharma people. I also believe Naomi’s people faked the plane crash to fool the public so they could finish their mission without suspicion.
Comment by nea — February 9, 2008 @ 7:19 am
I like your theory JonJon. Perhaps Jacob said to John “Help me” in order to break him free from his captivity in the cabin. Once those ashes that John found surrounding the cabin are removed, Jacob will be able to roam the island freely and regain his power again. John could be his pawn for now, who knows. It looks like there are two powers here at play. One being Jacob linked with the smoke monster and the other is the island itself. When I say the island itself I mean that it reveals itself to many of the castaway’s in different forms such as it revealing itself to John as Boone, to John as Walt, to Eko as Yemi, to Kate as the Black Horse and so on. At this point Jacob is looking for a way out of his “prison” which is why he probably opened his door for Hurley to come in and help. Another thing that has been BUGGING me is, if anyone wants to elaborate with me is the fact that Nestor Carbonell may not be returning for this season due to him filming for the series CAIN. Nestor played Richard Alpert. We need him back! He was a major head figure for the Others! Someone told me which may not be true but that Isabel is dead. Isabel was the “sheriff” for the Others. If you guys remember, she was the one who read Jack’s tattoos when he was in the cage and was the one trying to convict Juliet. Is she with the “Others” heading to the temple?
Comment by Franky — February 9, 2008 @ 10:00 am
its all tied into this “kind of kasmir effect”; note that the rabbit doubled itself (or..they doubled it), and that 815 has doubled itself, and im willing to bet anything that the black rock’s doubled itself too. the doubling thing will be important.
Comment by michaelwalsh — February 9, 2008 @ 10:13 am
I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts. I have spent the last few days going over and over the past 3 seasons in my head. Confusing!
Random questions:
1. Is the time continum a reason for the failed pregancies on the island?
2. What is Abbadon’s interest in the island? Does he work for someone else? And don’t forget that Naomi had a picture of Penny and Desmond!
3. Did Miles have a now deceased survivor (Libby — who is coming back according to imdb.com, Ana Lucia, Ecko, etc) “ghost whisper” to him and that’s how he became involved? Or perhaps it was a deceased Dharma person who contacted him from the dead?
4. We know there are 6 Oceanic survivors who get off the island. But do others also leave? Desmond, Ben, Juliet?
5. I’m still wondering about the woman you do not see in the beginning of the episode, the one who talks to Daniel Farraday. I’d be willing to bet she is someone we have seen in another episode. Could it be Juliet’s sister? Jack’s ex-wife?
6. What happened from the time we see Farraday crying in front of the tv until we know he’s been chosen as part of Naomi’s team? It’s not like you can call up the FAA and ask to be a part of a search team in the ocean. How did he get in contact with Abbadon?
Sooo many things to think about.
Comment by Amanda — February 9, 2008 @ 10:43 am
I think its important to note how it seems the cabin Jacob resides in actually switched places when Hurley was lost, and then, from nowhere, John Locke is also there… However he and Ben seem rather disturbed when Hurley accidentally discloses he was at the cabin.
Why does someone like Richard, who apparently doesn’t age, and is perhaps a “native” of the island follow orders from Ben, and why can they not see Jacob?
What is the temple?
Why do the Others burn bodies when they die and put them off the island? Maybe has something to do with destroy the body, destroy the chance for cerebrus to get it, like it may have done with Yemi and Christian!?
O yea, and Josh from Ny, I totally noticed the voice with “Regina” was the same as Naomi?
Why was Walt soaked with water when he told John he had work to do? (Which was the same line Christian Shephard used in “So It Begins”. I don’t think the appearance of people who are dead is necessarily cerebrus (smokey), because on the 815 game, Sonya was seen off the island, which cerebrus is confined too… but who knows.
And yea, was that child Eko, and heroine in the room? If so, why is his child picture there if he and Yemi were orphans in Africa???
Double plain, double people, two islands, multiplying rabbits, interesting.
Comment by MikeyO — February 9, 2008 @ 11:28 am
I am happy that I called after the first episode that hurley had some sort of power, perhaps given by the numbers or the island, etc… regardless, locke and ben’s faces were awesome when hurley mentioned the cabin.
Anyway, I remember reading that Isabel was mentioned as one of the others that got blown up in the 3rd season finale, but I was surprised as well, because i didn’t remember her being mentioned. But who knows.
I buy into the Dark Tower theory to a certain degree but not that Naomi and her team are like the katet. I think that’s reaching. But when you consider the Dark Tower theory and the Vile Vortices theories together…. it seems like the island could be “the dark tower” or rather the nexus/destination of these points on earth where many anomalies are recorded.
Also, anyone wondering if the portal, if there is something as such, is underwater (or on the surface)? I had been contemplating it for awhile but didn’t consider it until this episode where in the flashback for Jeff fahey’s character, it starts with the plane tumbling in the water, combined with the casmir effect (and Desmonds’ neglect of the hatch) created the doppelganger plane that dropped to the ocean floor (note: if there are doppelgangers, it may very well be that the doppelgangers are the ones alive and the people on the ocean floor are the originals…). The sub, Desmonds boat was in trouble before he blacked out, the black rock all could have reached a portal through the water.
Also, Mr Abbadon. We don’t know if it is truly dharma connection yet but it is to be assumed. He’s searching for the crew that was sent to the island (a) or for the others lead by locke/etc (b) who have hidden. I was thinking during this episode that these freighters are not necessarily bad people (miles doesn’t seem too awesome…) but that the people the orders are coming from are bad (plus naomi). Thus, some of these freighters could perhaps join the others (the term i am now going to use for anyone with locke.
I think they’re after Ben but Jacob is definitely a facet to their interest in ben… otherwise, i’m not sure why miles would be there: normal people sometimes seem capable of speaking to the dead on LOST, although they usually turn out to be smoky and/or jacob…
I am also not going to discount the well formulated theories on time forking down two parallel paths as the time “fixers” (desmonds friends) seem to indicate something screwy with time and the natural progression of events. They seemed to suggest to desmond that Charlie needed to die. and perhaps he did. Maybe he needed to die as earlly as the 1st season when he was cut down from the tree and jack saved him. By the way, we don’t know for certain that ethan strung him up, do we? Smoky? Jacob? Any entity with foresight (like jacob apparently) would know that charlie living long enough to “save” the losties would be bad for all in the end.
Okay, I’m going to go before i get course corrected.
Comment by hurleybird — February 9, 2008 @ 11:49 am
I thought it was really funny when Locke had Ben at gun point, and Ben was talking about answers. Locke, like a kid in a candy store, says “what is the monster??” I felt like that was a nod to us viewers, being it’s been a burning question in all of us since the pilot haha
Comment by Herb — February 9, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
Thanks to hurleybird answering one of my question’s in regards to Isabel. I could swear tho that when Tom was talking to Ben in the walkie he said, ” There all dead…Diane, Ivan…all seven…etc;” I’ll have to check the dvd again. Maybe she was blown away.
Comment by Franky — February 9, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
I was wondering if anyone had answers to any of my questions. What is on the picture in the corner of the wall in Jacob’s cabin? Also, as I began posting only yesterday, is my John Hughes / “Breakfast Club” theory an Easter Egg, a coincidence (which we don’t believe in on Lost), or am I just way off the deep end (no pun intended)?
BTW, I am becoming an avid believer in the Casimir Effect theory on Lost. I’m sure there are about a thousand other relevant theories for the show, but this one really meshes for now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
The whole “parallel universe,” matter vs. anti-matter, clones thing is definitely one explanation for the unexplained on the show.
Imelda
Comment by Imelda — February 9, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
lol sorry Imalda
Comment by Nath — February 9, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
ok heres something to speculate on. in this episode during the beginning credits, Harold Perrineau is listed, and yet in the first episode he is not. does this mean that at some point we see or possibly hear him? i cant believe that they would put his name in the credits without an actual appearence.
Comment by sadamsghost — February 10, 2008 @ 9:59 am
Did anyone notice that the photo of Ben showed him wearing clothing that looked very 1970’s?
Comment by BlackJack — February 10, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
If that was a picture of Ben, Perhaps people stop aging on the island at a certain age. Children would grow to adulthood and then stop aging at some point. A little farfetched but could have a tie in with women dying in the third trimester.
Comment by Circus Mom — February 10, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
about daniel mentioning the light not scattering correctly, prolly the snow globe deal with the island, theres some sort of thing around the island and its causing the light to refract rather than take the original path.
Comment by ledio — February 10, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
Don’t know if this was mentioned already (no time to read all the comments), but one of the most interesting things to me was that Locke was surprised when Hurley mentioned he had seen the cabin - the same kind of surprised Ben was when he realized Locke had heard Jacob.
This tells us something - the eye that Hurley saw in the cabin wasn’t Locke’s.
My suspicion is that the eye was actually Hurley’s.
Comment by Brent — February 10, 2008 @ 8:32 pm
To the poster who asked about Harold Perrineau’s credit, his name appears in the opening credits of both 4.01 and 4.02.
Comment by Ross H — February 11, 2008 @ 5:17 am
Harold Perrineau’s does not appear in 401
Comment by sadam ghost — February 12, 2008 @ 3:11 am
In the picture of Ben off island it immediatlely appeared to me that he was in a wheelchair. The unplugged computer monitor in the background is about head hight and Ben’s right arm can be seen behind his back in a position which could be pushing a wheelchair wheel. Did anyone else see that in the picutre and if so what could it mean? Ben becomes like Locke off island. Maybe that is why he doesn’t ever leave when clearly other Others do.
Comment by J — February 12, 2008 @ 11:08 am
Don’t know if this is relevant, but in Locke’s first flashback of season 3, he has a vision in which Ben is with all the other Losties at the airport. Although this obviously was a vision, perhaps it was also an early hint that Ben has not always been on the island.
Comment by adamthfc — February 13, 2008 @ 2:28 am