Readers Respond to “The Beginning of the End” Questions
Now that we’ve all had a weekend to ponder the mind-blowing events from the season premiere of Lost, it’s time to talk about the questions I asked in my afterthoughts article. The important questions were:
How can Charlie be both dead and corporeal?
Why did Hurley refer to the island as an entity?
Who is the mysterious "they" referred to by Charlie and Lance Reddick’s character?
Was Naomi actually on a rescue mission?
Who was the person in Jacob’s cabin?
Tail Section readers had a lot to say about these particular topics, and many of you made my mind spin in ways I wasn’t expecting. Read on for some of the best, most creative answers to these burning questions, as well as a few more inquiries that have popped up over the past few days.
The appearance of Charlie seemed to bring out different theories in nearly everyone. "Catholics believe in saints (St. Therese of Lisieux, for example) visiting living people after they are dead and appearing, sometimes, totally mortal," Sarah pointed out. "There are numerous documented cases of this happening with numerous saints throughout history."
On the other hand, Robert didn’t think Charlie was actually there at all. "I do not believe that it was Charlie that we saw there," he wrote. "Rather it was some kind of manifestation of the island but what’s interesting to me about that is that whatever is behind the island, this mystical power, can interact with people when they’re not on the island."
J Nall thinks the appearance of our favorite rocker was all in Hurley’s mind. "Given Hurley’s history of seeing things that aren’t there I don’t think Charlie is corporeal," he said. "As much as I hate to say it I think Charlie is just dead."
Could Charlie be both dead and alive at the same time? locke_look_alike thinks so, thanks to the wacky time issues on the island. "Charlie is both alive and dead — a time loop could allow for that."
As for Hurley referring to the island as an entity, most people seemed to think that something must eventually happen to make him believe in the island’s power. "Obviously something happens down the road that reveals to everyone the fact that the island is more than just a mass of land floating in the ocean," Robert theorized. "Jack knows this too which is why he is so desperate to return later down the road."
However, Skeez thinks that "Hurley may not have been referring to the island when he said ‘it’, he was probably talking about Jacob."
One thing that Lost fans seem to agree on is that the mysterious "they" referred to by Charlie and Matthew Abbadon refers to people left on the island. Nobody offered up any alternate theories about that minor mystery, so we may have that one figured out.
As for Naomi’s true motives, those are a little shadier after her death. Was she actually on a genuine rescue mission? "At first I thought definitely not because she ran, but then I realized she had no idea who tried to kill her so I would’ve run away too," Skeez said. "Although they lied about who they were, we still don’t know for certain that they are not there for rescue as everyone assumes. I however believe that they are the original Dharma and have been searching for the island since Ben killed all the Dharma employees and now they plan to kill Ben’s others for revenge and to take back the island."
J Nall brought up another possibility, saying, "I think her telling her crew mates to wish her sister well was code. Much more subtle than ‘The situation is all F’d up. Come kill these crazies!’"
Perhaps the biggest debate that raged over the weekend was who the eyeball in Jacob’s cabin belonged to. The screencap can be seen here if you want to figure it out for yourself.
MT said that, "I think it’s obvious that the face that popped up in Jacob’s cabin was Locke’s," but others disagreed. Amanda pointed out that, "I have looked at Jacob’s cabin several times through the wonder of my DVR and the eye we see looks brown to me. Doesn’t Locke have blue eyes? It makes sense for Locke to be there, but the eye color is not right."
Jeff thinks that the eye belonged to the big man himself, Jacob. "Jacob can assume the form of anyone/thing he wants to," he wrote. "He can also teleport his cabin around too. (OR just project things into people’s brains)"
Now that those questions have some possible answers, it’s time to discuss the other big mysteries of the episode, including:
Why didn’t Desmond go with Locke?
Why didn’t Rose go with Locke when we know she wants to stay on the island?
Does Hurley have some magical mental power to make things appear and disappear?
Why could the other mental patient see Charlie? This screengrab may hold the answer. Check out the patient in the background who seems to be watching Hurley:
Nice response time.
Black Lodge?
Comment by theonefin — February 4, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
I think the new two groups are going to go back to the real roots of the idea for this show. It’s going to become some sort of version of Lord of the Flies and I think that friends will become enemies and start killing each other. Lord of the Flies there are two groups of children abandoned on a deserted island. The leaders of the groups are Jack and John. It would make sense that Jack doesn’t want to go back because they had a war that they’re not proud of.
Comment by steeeeve — February 4, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
I reckon that the eye in Jacob’s cabin cannot be Locke’s.
Both from the Hurley Point of View and from the image looking out at Hurley - the owner of the eye clearly has a head of dark hair
Comment by macdonsj — February 4, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
I think rescue is an ulterior motive for the freighter people, but a motive nonetheless. I think they plan on employing (or enslaving) the survivors to do whatever it is they want them to do, and it’s a good bet that a lot of people are going to die along the way. I doubt that Charlie is just in Hurley’s brain because there have been way too many dead people show up in Lost’s history for it to be that simple. I refuse to assume anything about Jacob at this point, but I think it’s obvious the smoke monster can take the form of people’s memories. More, I think it assimilates certain dead bodies (Christian Shephard, Eko’s brother), which allows it to take that form. But it isn’t as strict as that because there was Kate’s horse, and Walt appearing on multiple occasions throughout the show’s history. Despite what the survivors want to believe, they have become an integral part of the Island, and no matter how far away they go that can never be escaped, and it will always be calling to them. What happens if/when they get back, now that’s the real mystery.
Comment by wolfboy13 — February 4, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
in respone to the naomi thing…what if..when john entered the code in the “enter 77″ episode…that ur supposed to push it when the hostiles are attacking..what if that sent more dharma people out there to finish of the hostiles? any thoughts?
Comment by luke — February 4, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
where did buddytv get the screencap of christian shepherd in jacobs cabin….my friend has lost in hd and has rewound numerous times and theres definately no clear image like the one on buddytv of jacks dad….a lot of people seem to think its christian shepeherd but its just a sillehoute (sp] of a person.
you cant make anything out
Comment by Dan — February 4, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Dan,
it’s an image from one of the trailers that were shown before the premiere took place. in an interview i heard jorge garcia say that when they were shooting that scene, Hurley himself took place in the chair. but for some reason they changed it. i guess between the time the trailers come up and the final edit of s04e01 they darkened the shot a bit… but it’s still him though.
Comment by dust — February 4, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
wow it looks lik the Tailsection is alive and kicking once more… nice job Don
Comment by morty — February 4, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
wow it looks like the Tailsection is alive and kicking once more… nice job Don
Comment by morty — February 4, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
i have no idea y that posted 2wice…
Comment by morty — February 4, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
Apparently I’m missing something. What clue should I be seeing in the screengrab of Charlie at Santa Rosa?
Comment by Tim — February 4, 2008 @ 4:00 pm
i could have missed something from the third season, but the gun that locke had was loaded when he tried to shoot the phone before jack picked it up…but when jack pulled the trigger it didnt shoot. maybe the island saved john…or it only had the one bullett lol
Comment by chris — February 4, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
Desmond can’t go with Locke, simply because he must do all he can to get off this island and find Penny. True, he was with Charlie when he died and saw, firsthand, the message of “Not Penny’s Boat”, but after spending so long away from his love - and seeing her on the monitor in the Looking Glass - he wants to be with her again. At least, that’s what I think.
I’m probably way off, but that’s what I assumed when I was watching last week. No debate about this in my head.
Comment by me — February 4, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
Not much to add here just thought this readers response idea is great. Lost is an awesome show because it gives so much room for fans to speculate. Hope this can continue. At the very least in the end someone will be right and we will know from this article… or every one can be wrong.
Comment by Satchmoe — February 4, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
My question is…at exactly what point did Rose turn on John Locke? Previously, they shared a moment relishing the healing powers of the island. She had intended to stay on this island…did something change…and I didn’t notice? This seemed to be a drastic ‘about face’ ‘180′ on her part-.
Comment by The Invisible Swordsman — February 4, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
I know that we are all assuming that Rose is referring to John Locke when she says, “I’m not going anywhere with that man”; but is there any way possible that she was actually referring to another man? She said this after Hurley made his speech and joined Locke, along with BEN who asked permission to join John. I totally believe Rose was talking about BEN when she said she was not “going anywhere with that man.”
Comment by Amanda — February 4, 2008 @ 6:20 pm
The person in the rocking chair in the cabin was obviously Jack’s father. And the eye is the eye of Jacob. Therefore, Jack’s father and Jacob are working together on whatever they work on.
Who do you guys think are the other three of the “Oceanic Six?”
Comment by Daaaaaave! — February 4, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
I was just reading an article for one of my classes by Bourriard called Relational Aesthetics….listen to this part:
“the state of encounter” that has been ‘imposed on people, as Althusser puts it, as opposed to the dense and unproblematic jungle of Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s state of nature. Rousseau’s jungle was such that there could be no lasting encounters”
Interesting!
Comment by abc_Ash_UTM_OPH — February 4, 2008 @ 6:57 pm
I wasn’t confused at all about Rose’s bad words for Locke. Seeing it as such a contested fact here has certainly got me thinking, but to me it makes sense. She just saw Locke kill a woman and threaten to kill Jack. Besides that, we know that she has a very strong friendship with Jack stretching back to the pilot episode. She knows how much Jack distrusts Locke, and Jack’s probably talked about the submarine. Besides all of this, it’s important to note that Locke has never been everyone’s favorite person. He’s been a loner, a bit eerie (”what does a guy need two hundred knives for?”) and he spent all of season 2 in the hatch. Probably Rose still associates him with Boone’s death. It seems like Jack is the obvious choice.
Comment by Vaquero — February 4, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
I’ve watched it three times, and I’m betting the eye in Jacob’s cabin is Mikhail’s. It’s got that bewildered, crazed expression that our Russian friend is apt to wear.
Comment by thewoodstove — February 4, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
After staring at the eyeball in Jacob’s cabin for some time, I began to see it differently. Instead of my initial perception - a right eye (which actually looks like it could belong to Desmond!), I saw it as a left eye (Locke’s!) Am I reliving the brain teaser in which you look at the image that is clearly an old lady, but if you look more closely, you clearly see a young lady?
Look again, and tell me what you see:
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost/more/lost-easter-eggs-episode-41-th-16286.aspx
Comment by LoriluvsLost — February 4, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
Hey, I can’t believe my theories made it into your post! Wow, thanks! As far as your other questions are concerned, here are my ideas.
Why didn’t Desmond go with Locke? Of all the things we saw in this first episode this one really had me scratching my chin more than anything. After all, Desmond saw first hand (no pun intended) Charlie’s warning, yet he chose to remain with Jack. I believe this could be due to the fact that Desmond is clinging to the hope that it is indeed Penny’s boat or that these people can somehow lead him back to her. After all, when Naomi crashed, she called Desmond by name. We all know that Desmond is trying to get back to her and I think he’s willing to take any chance to do just that. Even if these people aren’t who they say they are, he doesn’t care as long as he can leave the island.
Why didn’t Rose go with Locke when we know she wants to stay on the island? I think she’s simply convinced that Locke is nuts after his little stint throwing a knife in Naomi’s back. That was a move very uncharacteristic of Locke.
Does Hurley have some magical mental power to make things appear and disappear? Probably not the ability to make them appear but certainly he has the control to make them go away…or does he? Perhaps the island’s ability to reach out to those not actually present there is limited, which would explain why he was able to dispel the image of Charlie so quickly. As far as making Jacob’s cabin vanish, well, I don’t think he made it go away at all. Rather it went away on its own because the goal was accomplished…Lock found Hurley in the jungle immediately thereafter.
Why could the other mental patient see Charlie? Probably for the same reason that someone else saw Kate’s horse on the island. Because the manifestation is physical, others can see it too. Also, I think that was a way for the writers to throw in the fact that Hurley wasn’t having a delusion…the entity, whatever it was, was indeed there in a physical form.
Comment by Robert — February 5, 2008 @ 12:32 am
I’m straying away from the questions posed in the original post, but this has been bugging me since the episode aired.
I’ve poked around a few fansites, and the consensus seems to be that the “Oceanic Six” is a group comprised of Jack, Kate, Hurley, and three others. We know that Hurley is a member, certainly, as he claimed membership in the group, and assuming that the Six are six people from the flight that have celebrity status as survivors, Jack’s comments in this episode, as well as “Through the Looking Glass,” would confirm this as well.
But what about Kate?
Consider that Jack and Hurley met publicly. While the two of them were alone at the time of their meeting, anyone could have seen Jack coming or going. So why did Kate and Jack have to meet secretly? I think the general theory has been that the mysterious “he” that’s going to be waiting for Kate would be upset about Kate and Jack meeting, but consider the possibility that Kate might not be known to the world as one of the Oceanic Six. Maybe THAT’s why she and Jack keep their meeting a secret.
We’re looking for three more people; perhaps we should be looking for four.
ALSO.
There’s been a lot of chatter speculating about the identities and motives of the people on “Not Penny’s Boat.” That’s fine, and it seems like a relevant question to ask, especially given the previews about the next episdoe.
But what about Penny?
Charlie flicked the switch at the end of season three, and, immediately, Penny’s image showed up. Why the hell would the Looking Glass Station have a direct line to the (fifth grade class-) room in which Penny was located, with somekind of webcam already up and running, with Penny at the screen? Much as I’m pulling for Penny and Desmond, I think it’s a pretty big coincidence that she should simply have been sitting at her computer, completely ready and waiting for that particular signal. Could it be that there’s more to Penny’s search than a simple desire to find Desmond? Has she been in contact with the island before? Even if her motives are pure, what’s the status of HER search for Desmond and the island?
Comment by ByronBunch — February 5, 2008 @ 1:43 am
I think the face in the cabin was Jack, who was in there with Christian and Smokey…in other words: the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.
Comment by Bob J. — February 5, 2008 @ 7:13 am
How did the other mental patient see Charlie?
Who says the other mental patient was real? Wouldn’t be the first time for Hurley to imagine other patients.
Comment by Crankylemming — February 5, 2008 @ 7:31 am
Just a thought here…
Maybe the eye that appears to Hurley in the cabin is Charley’s!?
Think about it… Hurley apparently sees Charley three times in the flash forward. That might be a clue to whom he sees on the Island as well. Also, the first time he sees him he runs away.. just like he did when he saw the eye in the cabin.
Plus.. it wouldn’t be the first time a dead person appears on the island.
Comment by Mr Bombastic — February 5, 2008 @ 9:02 am
We’ve got to assume now that Locke has taken over the role of Ben, at least as far as Jacob is concerned. Whatever happened in that cabin in “The Man Behind The Curtain”, whatever conversation Ben had with Jacob, it seems clear (both from Jacob’s seemingly angry telekinetic response to Ben and by John’s having heard Jacob’s cry of “Help me”) that Jacob has now chosen Locke as opposed to Ben to be his vessel by which he accomplishes whatever it is that alternate-dimension ghost-people do in their spare time.
This is supported by many things, including Alpert’s little speech on the hill with Locke about regime change, the apparent prophecy that led Cindy to say “We’ve been waiting for you” and Ben to say “I’m sorry, he’s not who we thought he was”, Locke’s ability to communicate (at least one-way) with Jacob and, in a more general sense, Locke’s Island Destiny (sounds like a Nintendo DS game) and his miraculous ability to heal like Wolverine on Prednisone (also keep this in mind: Ben discovered he had a tumor and three days later Locke arrived…could his tumor be proof of Jacob revoking Ben’s privileges and passing the torch to Locke?). Now that Locke has taken Ben into custody and led half of the group back to the Barracks, he has completed the transition from Temp to Perm at Jacob’s company of Others.
What are Jacob’s motives? Did Jacob choose Locke because Ben had stopped listening to him? Will Locke continue to blindly follow his “fate”? How was Ben able to maintain control over Jacob, assuming that is what led to Jacob’s SOS to John?
Another strange thing I’ve been pondering: Why does the leader of the Tribe of Others have to kill their father? It’s obvious that this is requisite to getting hired on as the CEO of Otherville, but why? Ben killed his father (along with 40+ other people) and somehow became the group leader. Locke killed his father (at least that’s how it looks to everyone but Sawyer and Alpert) and suddenly he’s on Jacob’s hot list and has a group of followers.
What the hell does patricide show? Is it some sort of sacrifice to the island? Is it just one of Jacob’s crazy requirements to be his BFF? If it’s tied to Jacob, how come he couldn’t tell that Locke hadn’t been the one to kill his dad? And if Christian Shepard does in fact have any relation to Jacob, could the father/son relationship between he and Jack somehow tie into this?
Burning questions, burning answers, burning sensation.
Comment by TheFirstBardo — February 5, 2008 @ 10:47 am
i’ve been bugged by the statement hurley made that he is sorry for going with locke. how can he be sorry for leaving and wanting to go back, yet be sorry for going with locke and not jack, who wanted to leave?
does locke go jim jones on everyone with some cool aid ?
also, wouldn’t the oceanic 6 likely be:
jack, kate, hurley (obvious)
claire, aaron, desmond (the ones desmond saw leaving, plus dez wants penny)
also, i think the eye in the cabin is mikhail. one thing that might be happening is jacob “reanimates” people .
Comment by rooster — February 5, 2008 @ 10:56 am
I thought Mikhail also at first. That eye just has a crazy look to it - intense like Mikhail had. Also, it would be the right (well, left) eye, since his other is patched.
Jacob playing re-animator is a cool idea, though that probably means Charlie will be getting some more island time.
Re: Hurley, something obviously happens between island-time and mental-health-facility-time that makes Hurley decide to go with Jack - though it may not be related to his apology to Jack as Hurley is now convinced they shouldn’t have left the island yet still tells Jack he’s sorry for going with Locke.
Maybe Jack and Claire find out they’re related at some point and Locke causes the death of either Claire or Baby Aaron…the way Jack responds “That’s water under the bridge” leads me to believe that there were some hard feelings there for a while and further actions that we’re yet unaware of that have led to guilt on Hurley’s part.
Comment by TheFirstBardo — February 5, 2008 @ 11:06 am
what really bugged me but no one has mentioned is the fact that locke knew about charlie’s death and not pennys boat before he met up with any of the people that knew. that is confirmed in the way sayyid reacts to johns arrival at the cockpit. who told locke what happened? was it walt, or jacob, or did locke have a flash like desmond.
Comment by doyousmellcarrots — February 5, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Hurley told him after Locke found Hurley in the jungle. It was alluded to, but not put on film.
Comment by TheFirstBardo — February 5, 2008 @ 11:45 am
It didn’t seem like there was a break in dialogue or filming between the point in which locke find hurley and he talks about charlie. I may be wrong and will rewatch that scene.
Comment by do you smell carrots — February 5, 2008 @ 11:50 am
There was. Hurley sees the cabin, wishes it away, falls over backward and opens his eyes - Locke is standing over him with a torch. Then it’s cut to next scene, Hurley and Locke sitting by a nice roaring campfire, and Locke says “You’re sure that Charlie’s message was Not Penny’s Boat?” or something to that effect. The passage of time is shown by the difference in location, environment and the disposition of the characters. They just didn’t waste 3 minutes of premiere time having Hurley recap something that he was going to have to recap to Claire later in the episode. That would have made the Claire scene a little less dramatic.
Comment by TheFirstBardo — February 5, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
what also has been bothering me is desmond. in all of the time that naomi was there, between her landing and been knifed, you’d *think*, desmond would have a sit down with her, ask about penny, etc,etc. how is she, why do you have my picture. did PENNY send you, etc? that would have happened.
so, the confusing part is, we know that conversation must have occurred, and naomi must have fronted that penny did send her, correct……so why would desmond go with jack after what charlie said?
Comment by rooster — February 5, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
Does anyone think there is any significance to the balck bird on the t-shirt Charlie is wearing when he appears to Hurley?
Comment by Brian — February 5, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
I personally wonder if Charlie is even dead. Think back to the end of Season 1, when the hatch exploded and Desmond sacrificed himself to save everyone else. He was spared death (or brought back to life, however you want to look at it) and as he passed this test, he was granted a new power… the ability to see the future.
Secondly, when Eko was faced with his trial, he did not repent, sacrifice himself, or however you want to call it, and was killed and has not been back.
Now jump forward to the season 3 finale, Charlie is faced with his fate, and he chooses to sacrifice himself for everyone else. Which brings me back to my original point, is it possible that he was spared or brought back with a new “power”, just like Desmond?
Just a thought…
Comment by Korben — February 5, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
The eye: I would love it if it were Mikhail (bring back Patchy!), but it looks like Hurley’s own eye to me. Totally.
Comment by GreenHeart — February 5, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
brian, perhaps the black bird is a raven? wasn’t poe an addict?
Comment by rooster — February 5, 2008 @ 7:02 pm
I have no heard of anyone bringing this up, but to be honest, the most shocking part of the premiere to me was when Hurley told Jack something along the lines of “I’m sorry I didn’t go with you, Jack!”
They both got off the Island (or so we’re lead to believe) so it must mean something catastrophic happened to the group that Locke lead. That is the only way of interpreting that from the way Hurley said it, and for what happened throughout that episode. It’s quite unnerving. I bet that Locke dies within the next 7 episodes.
Comment by Extra — February 5, 2008 @ 7:46 pm
Brian:
It’s the Hurley-Bird!
Comment by TimM — February 5, 2008 @ 7:57 pm
i think the one who was the mysterious eye looking out Jacob’s cabin was ………………………….Micheal
I closely examined the eye and Micheal and they look like a match and remember the credits to the opening of LOST season 4 said we’d see Micheal…………if he is not “the eye guy” then where was he?????
Please let me know what ya think by IMing on on yahoo messenger xxcharmedfairygirlxx
Comment by B — February 5, 2008 @ 10:30 pm
Re: the eye
It looks a bit like Dave to me.
Comment by Cranky — February 6, 2008 @ 4:31 am
The eye sure looks like Mr. Friendly to me.
Comment by Vergil — February 6, 2008 @ 9:24 am
This isn’t the first time the eye has appeared. If you slow motion the scene where Ben first takes Locke into Jacob’s cabin in “The Man Behind The Curtain” on the season 3 DVD, you can see the eye for a split second. It’s the same intense brown eye. It’s funny nobody’s mentioned that yet.
Comment by Walcer — February 7, 2008 @ 12:44 am