The Great Radzinsky Debate - Sort of Spoilerish
I don’t really consider this to be a spoiler, unless you believe rumors over verified intel. The line of thinking has been around for a while, but recently it was suggested that through the magic of flash forwards, we will learn that Leonard may have been stationed at the Swan.
This loops in rather well with another theory: Sam Toomey is Radzinsky. Toomey, you will remember, was the first to bring back the numbers and begin using them for his own benefit, leading to a Hurley-like run of bad luck. According to his wife, his life ended when he put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Just like Radzinsky.
Perhaps the wording that Leonard used with regards to Hurley’s use of the numbers, "You opened the box!" is also telling, considering that ‘the box’ has become the metaphor for the islands seeming ability to manifest according to its inhabitants psyches.
Having Leonard be a former Swan worker would bring some much needed plausibility to the prevalence of the numbers. The next element needed to tie up the seemingly implausible nature of the numbers would be how Hurley won the lottery.
FIRST?!?!
This is a very interesting theory, and it is possible. This also proves that the creators knew what they were doing since season 1.
Comment by Madally Wurlpiz — October 10, 2007 @ 7:06 am
i hope they NEVER try to explain why Hurley won the lottery. Why would they need to? I don’t need everything spelled out for me. Leave a little to the imagination fer cryin’ out loud!
Comment by peter — October 10, 2007 @ 7:50 am
This theory is plausible. I don’t remember Sam Toomey’s wife saying her husband committed suicide in Australia. Except for one thing. She did say that Sam used the Numbers to correctly guess the number of beans in the jar and that they were in a car accident afterwards. So does that mean that Sam was able to get off the island and go back to the Swan and shoot himself while Kelvin was asleep?
Comment by LadySolitaire — October 10, 2007 @ 8:55 am
I definitley think our friend was a Swan inhabitant.
Lost as I see it is a huge untied knot.
We’re getting to see it from the outside all pulled apart.
I think there is ONE strand that if yanked hard enough will pull it all together.
Will it be Toomey? Will it be Libby? Who knows…
I just hate that it’s right under our noses. Not saying it’s obvious.
But it’s pretty much the best game of Clue ever. =]
Comment by Vainglorious — October 10, 2007 @ 9:23 am
I’m re-watching Lost season 1-3 right now and I just watched that episode last nite! I thought of the exact same thing, and I never caught it before. I think you are definitely on to something!
Comment by AnotherOther — October 10, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
I submitted that theory to The LOST Mag way back in issue 2 and am really hoping it comes to fruition so that I can have at least one correct theory before the end.
Comment by valentin_50 — October 10, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
WOW DocArzt, think this is our best LOST thread in months! Great, fun, and insightful posts … please keep weaving! Tx much - RichPundit
btw, was happy to see your buddy DocJensen mispell your persona cuz know I’ve done many times, perhaps because “Art” fits you well.
Comment by RichPundit — October 10, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Dunno how much plausibility there can be when the "numbers" have shown up just about everywhere, like the speedometer of a rental car one of the losties was driving in a flashback.
The writers went a tad number-happy there for a while.
I think plausibility kinda went out the window.
Comment by Michael Dobrofsky — October 10, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
I think they have it wrong…. I think that the two men were stationed in "the pearl".
Comment by skaught — October 10, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
I thought that the story we were told on the show, that Sam and Leonard heard the transmission of the numbers broadcast on the island was plausible enough… I mean why not?
Comment by Will — October 10, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
"Dunno how much plausibility there can be when the "numbers" have shown up just about everywhere, like the speedometer of a rental car one of the losties was driving in a flashback.
The writers went a tad number-happy there for a while.
I think plausibility kinda went out the window."
I consider that more of an in-joke, and a statement about how we as the viewers are free to look for interconnectivity on the show in a near-unending manner. Hurley sees the numbers everywhere, but instances like the speedometer or the girls’ team jerseys in the airport are easter eggs.
I think the times the Numbers matter are when they’re specifically script-oriented, i.e. Leonard’s ramblings, Hurley’s winning the lottery, and the serial code on the Hatch.
Lindelof even acknowledged, if I’m not mistaken, around Season 1 that the meaning of the Numbers wasn’t very important when they were writing it, it was more of a Twilight Zone-y thing. But I also think they recognized early on that they were going to have to find a more tied-in approach to satisfy the fans, and if such an explaination will eventually will play into the plot, it’ll involve Leonard and the Hatch for sure. And since the whole bringing back Libby (and *SPOILER CENSOR* w/a briefcase at Santa Rosa) will play into Season 4, I personally think that plays into the "recruitment conspiracy" theory and that the people on the plane were there as no accident. So it’s entirely plausible (in TV land, anyway) that Hurley was goaded, through Ms. Toomey and a dash of reverse-psychology, into going to Australia. So that brings him into the picture as well.
Only time will tell, I suppose…
Comment by Giovanni — October 10, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
wait… why would they need to explain how hirley won the lottery?? he played the lottery and they picked his numbers.
isnt that how evrybody who wins the lottery wins the lottery?? are you implying hurley had the lottery rigged??
i’m not crazy about this theory. i wouldnt balk at it, but it seems dull. someone else already pointed out that toomy used the numbers to win a contest with his wife, which means he couldnt be radzinsky because radzinsky never got to leave the island before his death.
plus, why bother going back to how leonard learned the numbers? he was stationed in the pacific and heard the numbers being broadcasted from the island. why bother doubling back and adding to that already satisfactory explanation?
Comment by joeblow — October 10, 2007 @ 11:26 pm
How the numbers that Hurley used in the lottery can even be "cursed". I think somebody knew that once these numbers were picked in the lottery. So if you can send that information back in time you can win the lottery. I think Hurley wasn’t supposed to win the lottery. But unknowingly he used the numbers that somebody brought back from the future so he changed his life. He wasn’t supposed to be rich. So the all unluck that happen to him is universe course correcting. Now I think if Hurley had possibility to correct his past (let’s say "again") he wouldn’t use that numbers and lived his life like he originally suppose to.
Comment by Spheare — October 11, 2007 @ 4:09 am
Doc, I agree with you that Leonard is probably from the Swan and now in a mental institution.
It must mean *something* that they’ve been shooting institution scenes with Hurley in his robe for Season Four.
Also … I think it was Doc Jensen at EW that suggested that, perhaps, the institution is a "clearing house" for people returning from the island, which may be why Libby was there!
I’m unsure about it all … but I do think that Leonard’s story has more to it!
Comment by Matt — October 11, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
we all noticed that sawyer’s girl was also hurley’s lotto lady. but thats hardly evidence any more than nadia’s presence in locke’s flashback means that she’s in on the conspiracy… or that desmond’s appearance in jack’s flashback means that desmond was a conspirator in geting jack AND HIMSELF stuck on the island.
i mean, if you were going to rig the lotto you’d have to rig the machine. you couldnt just send in a stooge to read off the wrong lotto balls. the lotto machine picks the balls, not the person who reads the balls on tv.
Comment by joeblow — October 11, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
If I remember correctly, didn’t Mrs. Toomey say her husband and Leonard were stationed together "in the Pacific?" Can’t wait til February..looking forward to seeing Matt Fox in "Vantage Point" also..comes out in Feb. also.
Comment by LostShane — October 12, 2007 @ 7:29 am
C’mon Doc! It’s so obvious that Michiale AKA "Patchy" Is Radsinski. He is not one of the others. Knows the lay of the land. Was observing the swan. And, if he had shot himself, he could have regenerated…or whatever he does to come back from the dead. Thus Making it look like suicide to poor Kelvin, while escaping from the swan to do unseemly things.
It would be neat if leonard was on the island though.
Comment by Steve — October 14, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
Let’s not forget about the valenzentti equation. I think the key to finding out why the numbers are cursed lays in the details of the equation and or the circumstances in which is was concieved or used. And how are these numbers used anways in regards to the equation? In other words how do these numbers tell us when we are all going to die, due to various catastrophes?
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — October 15, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Valenzetti.
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — October 15, 2007 @ 9:32 am
Steve is right, to an extent. Mikhail is Radzinski. Here are the reasons that prove it, in no particular order:
1. When Desmond is through watching the Swan orientation film in "Live Together, Die Alone", he asks Kelvin why there are parts missing. "Radzinski made some edits," is Kelvin’s reply. Well, the missing film is found in the Bible by Eko (my dog) and the Tailies in the chest at The Arrow(?). Found along with that Bible? A glass eye. Mikhail’s glass eye. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. While in the basement of the communication station at which Mikhail was living, Sayid eyes a shelf full of binders that appear to be informational, if not instructional. One of these binders is titled, "Lockdown Protocol", or "Lockdown Procedure", something of that nature, and the camera stops on it. Remember, in "LT, DA" Kelvin tells Desmondo that Radzinski taught him how to fake a lockdown. Now, assuming that Mikhail was at the communication station at least from when 815 went down to when Sayid, Kate and Locke find him, one might also come to the conclusion that Mikhail forced the lockdown in the "Lockdown" episode, from the communcation station, (I’m sorry I can’t remember what that station is called), to aid Ben in some way. Either to have Ben earn Locke’s trust, or maybe to have Ben enter some other code into the computer to turn on the black lights so Locke could see the invisible map. Whose invisible map? Radzinski’s. Mikhail’s. Same dude. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. If Radzinski did shoot himself, (and we can’t be sure Kelvin was telling Desmond the truth, either), he would be able to live again, assuming he is Mikhail. I know Steve already said that. I’m just reiterating that point. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by ekoisadebese — October 16, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Hate to be a downer but….guys, whats with all the ‘ FIRST!’s’ ? When did TTS become AICN? God forbid this site should become as ‘compromised’ as that one…
Comment by LostintheUK — October 17, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
I always believe that Sam e Leonard has been on the island, but i never think about Sam like Radzinsk.
I like the theory…
So, if Sam is Radzinsk, Leonard knew Kelvin… a nice conection!!!
Comment by Leco Leite — October 25, 2007 @ 7:09 am
ekoisadebese that is genius! mikhail did cheat death several times. who’s to say that he and kelvin didn’t have some sort of misunderstanding. kelvin may have shot him and thought he was dead, burying him somewhere. good points about mikhail/radzinski connection. they were both in the military too (kelvin and mikhail).
sam toomey and leonard simms may have had some sort of relationship with kelvin inman and radzinski being that they were all military. they may very well have been a part of DHARMA as well in a listening station. remember bonnie and greta? they were in a listening station and when mikhail met them down there, he said “i thought you guys were on a mission in canada?” there’s clearly more to this story and this group (lets say MITTELOS) is widespread.
on the topic of listening stations, those guys at the end of season 2 (mathias and henrik) were in some sort of listening station working for penny. that place was a snowy cold place (possibly canada???!!!). this leads me to believe that penny (or at least her father) is an OTHER. how else would she have accessed “the looking glass” station that fast??? also, naomi lied and said she worked for penny. perhaps naomi really is the enemy and ben was right about them. penny may be in on something but is caught up in her love for desmond and is trying to save him.
Comment by blake — November 4, 2007 @ 12:35 am
I never thought about the potential Mikhail/Radzinsky connection, but now that you mention it:
Kelvin did specifically point out that he only had 108 minutes to bury Radzinsky, which I’d imagine means it was an awfully shallow grave…which would be easier for a regenerated Mikhail/Radzinsky to climb out from…
Comment by Marie — November 29, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Along with the military stuff…I have went back and begun watching the first season again. I can’t remember which episode it is in but in a flashback of Locke’s he is on the phone in his cubicle at the cardboard company and the person on the other line refers to him as Colonel. Locke is being secretive in his demeanor like he doesn’t want others around him to know. I dunno just a thought…
Comment by maddie22201 — December 29, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
hey whats up? leonard, the crazy guy who gave hugo the numbers in the first place… i feel he was on the island way back, and got off the island and went crazy with the fact that he shouldnt have left. maybe he was once a button pusher! he is so traumitized that all he can speak are the numbers! like jack, he can think of nothing but getting back to the island.
Comment by Csongei — January 11, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
I HAVE WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES AND I DONT RECALL EVER BEING TOLD WHAT THE NUMBERS ACTUALLY MEAN…AM I WRONG DID I JUST MISS IT??????
Comment by AMN — December 17, 2008 @ 3:28 pm