How ‘Lost’ almost went ‘Nowhere’
Chicagomag ran an interesting article on a guy name Jeff Lieber. You probably know who is he is, because he is ‘listed’ as one of the creators of LOST. It’s a situation that has been handled diplomatically for, I think, way too long. (It’s times like this I start to wonder how much trouble my mouth is going to get me into.)
The fact is, Lieber did not create Lost. He created a similarly themed show called ‘Nowhere’ that had some similar characters. There is another pieces of fiction that has similar characters as well, its called The Stand by Stephen King, but we’ll come back to that.
The fact is, Lieber did not create Lost. He created a similarly themed show called ‘Nowhere’ that had some similar characters. There is another pieces of fiction that has similar characters as well, its called The Stand by Stephen King, but we’ll come back to that.
Lieber was with Spelling, yes as in Aaron Spelling, when ABC took its first shot at developing Llyod Braun’s concept for a "Castaway the series" project. He developed a show that was ultra realistic. If I understand correctly, one episode would have revolved around the survivors attempt to catch a fish. There was no monster, no Dharma, no healings, and definitely no ‘others.’
Lieber and Spelling were taken off - or fired, as some like to say - for failing to come up with a concept that had enough scope to build a following and JJ Abrams was brought in with the show eventually coming under his Bad Robot monicker.
You should really read the article front to back then tell me how you feel about it, but here is my possibly short sighted summary of the events.
Lieber created a concept that was essentially a rehash of the various "Castaway" predecessors ala Daniel Defoe and others. He specifically decided he wanted to model it after "Lord of the Flies." Not only is it nothing new as far as people being stranded on an island trying to survive, but the dramatic narrative is openly based on a story that revolves around a group of people marooned on an island.
Lieber eventually did the equivalent of launching a lawsuit against ABC by filing a grievance demanding credit for the creation of "Lost."
The problem with this is, for all I can see, Lieber’s "Nowhere" is nothing but a variation on the ’stranded on an island’ plot that has been done to death. He openly says over and over that "Lord of the Flies" is the source for the dramatic underpinnings, and the cast of characters is so close to the ensemble of "The Stand" that until you read Lieber’s character descriptions you would swear JJ took the characters from "The Stand." I still believe he may have.
Even if the character’s had been directly inspired by "Nowhere," are the archtypes (Doctor, Pregnant Girl, Spoiled Rich Girl, Military Officer…) so stunning in their makeup to be considered patent worthy?
If Lost, under the influence of JJ and Damon, had no Dharma, no Whispers, no Monsters, no Others, and no whatever else that has kept us glued and will keep us glued until the end, sure Lieber might have a case. But then the question would really be, is anybody doing anything new.
Lieber got equal billing with JJ and Damon for contributing a story about people surviving on an island. An idea that existed before he was brought into the picture from the mind of Llyod Braun, and an idea that was openly contrived from countless other adventure stories. Lieber attributed the narrative of his story to a famous work of allegorical literature "Lord of the Flies," but had the nerve to demand credit as a creator of the show on the basis of those borrowed themes.
Lieber does not necessarily act like too much of a jerk about it. He basically says the fact that he collects a check for every episode of a series he never wrote a single episode of, never contributed a single innovation to, and never had to labor over to the brink of exhaustion a ‘hollow victory’ because if ABC had just told them they wanted a monster, he could have done that.
The problem wasn’t that ABC wanted something and he didn’t have the opportunity to do what he was told. The problem was ABC wanted something innovative from someone who didn’t need to be told what to do. Someone whose own imprint on the overused ‘castaways’ motiff would outshine the subtle homages to "Lord of the Flies." Jeff Lieber could not deliver that.
Lieber calls his ‘victory’ a ‘hollow’ one, because that is what it is. He is the paper mache of a creator standing in the company of true to life geniuses.
I read the whole article. In my opinion this Lieber character is a POS. Enough said. I in a previous past life remember writing a story that started with “In the beginning”. Now I want my name to be in every bible because I feel they have a similar premise.
Comment by The Glamorous — August 6, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
Just finished reading the article. Lieber got 60% of the credit for the show with JJ and Damon splitting the other 40%. Hardly seems fair considering the innovation and genius JJ and Damon added to what would undoubtedly have been a mundane and short-lived series. Yes his vague description of characters does sound like those introduced in the series, but the show is so much more than a list of characters. Without the flashbacks (and now also flashforwards), the intriguing mysteries, the fate vs. faith contingent, the connections between strangers, this show would not have become the compelling drama that it is. And that was JJ and Damon. Lieber may feel his receiving credit is a hollow victory and he should. But I hardly feel sorry for him. In fact, I find it disturbing to listen to someone complain about his recognition for Lost while banking 6 figures for the same.
Comment by Dana — August 6, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
I think Lieber rightfully gets a portion of the “created by” credit, but perhaps 60% is too much. However, that’s just the system having to quantify exactly how much his efforts are worth compared to the efforts of others namely Damon and JJ. Instead of coming up with a vauge sentence long description of the show, he worked for a period and developed something substantial that can be be credited. Anybody in his position would seek some sort of compensation for any work they contribute to a network project. I can’t really fault him for standing up for himself and his interests.
Comment by Kuato — August 6, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
I read the whole article - it was so good, I didn’t even realize how long it actually was until I finished it. I just think it goes to show you how much talent JJ and Damon have to come up with an incredible show like LOST from a simple, unimaginative script like Lieber’s.
Let’s be real here. Lieber didn’t even come up with the CONCEPT of the island. That idea was Lloyd Braun’s. Lieber basically did what he was asked to do, write a script about an island. So he wrote a dull, boring script. And when the powers that be read it, they fired his ass because even though they didn’t know what they wanted from the island, they knew it wasn’t THAT!
Enter JJ and Damon, bless their hearts. They took Braun’s idea of the island and created the incredible show LOST is today. Their idea was so good, ABC bought it from an outline! I guarantee you that if JJ and Damon had started from scratch, they would have created the exact same show we are watching today. Even Lieber admits he had nothing to do with the show that is on TV.
And yet he feels he has the right to whine about not getting enough credit? IMO, he’s getting too much credit! Lieber doesn’t have to work another day in his life if he so chooses. What more does he want? How many people would like to be getting ANNUAL royalty fees “in the low six figures” for writing one lousy script? He’s making money for a success that has nothing to do with him. I’d be embarassed to tell anyone where my money was coming from!
If I were Damon and JJ, I’d feel cheated at only getting 40% of the creative credit. But they’re probably making so much money, they can afford to be generous. Personally, I think they deserve every dime they get and more. LOST is a brilliant show but Lieber had nothing to do with creating it.
Comment by islandgirl329 — August 6, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
The true innovation of a show like LOST is introducing the Island as a character. Rewatch “The Genesis of Lost” from the Season 1 extras (also on YouTube). You get the sense that the creative team (JJ, Damon, etc) just didn’t know how to make a show like “Castaway - the series” watchable, let alone intriguing. ABC didn’t ask for a monster because they didn’t know they WANTED a monster. Seems like a sad excuse to me.
I suppose it’s the dream of every screenwriter to get the chance to produce something that is later filmed and turned into a hit show like LOST, but I would hope even Lieber can admit that he had little to no creative input in where the show went. Taking a fat slice of that “Created by” credit sounds pretty underhanded, but I’m not sure that was entirely his doing since it was the Writer’s Guild that went into arbitration for him.
If Lieber is suddenly a hot commodity for HBO and Showtime, then maybe he does have talent. But it’s certain not evident from his vision for LOST.
Comment by StuGibson — August 6, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
I have an idea for a TV show. People should be in a location and interact with each other and inanimate objects. Now all I have to do is sit back and wait for the checks to roll in.
Comment by Chainsaw — August 7, 2007 @ 7:45 am
If anyone deserves to share credit with our guys shouldn’t it be Braun? Not sayig he deserves credit simply saying if anyone deserves it, it makes the most sense that he would share credit with jj damon and carlton. He’s the one that had the original idea for a series that got the green light!
afterall the man had a character in seinfeld named after him!
Comment by cekma — August 7, 2007 @ 8:42 am
There’s a show on Discovery Kids right now called Flight 29 Down. Does this guy want credit for that, too?
Or maybe the Flight 29 Down creators should also ask Lindelof/Cuse/Abrams et al for a creative credit, since it was in production before LOST.
This guy should either take his six-figure income and enjoy it, feelings of guilt and all, or give the checks back, refuse the screen credit and go do his own thing. Either way, he should definitely stop whining.
Comment by Laura — August 7, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Okay, I’ve read comments about this article on several sites, and people need to understand that while Lieber is more or less a hack as a writer, he DOES deserve some credit for Lost (though certainly not 60% creative credit).
Yes, the idea of people surviving on an island is nothing new, but concepts and ideas do not count as intllectual property. Once Lieber wrote his draft, which was pretty weak and trite, he owned this specific take on the “lost on an island” premise.
Getting sacked by ABC does not take away his intellectual property rights on his script. Once you write something, it’s your’s. Granted, there is a certain window during which copyright is assumed, but if you let a draft like that sit for 20 or 30 years, you’re out of luck. This was not the case though.
ABC quickly gave Lieber’s script to JJ. It was the starting point for the creation of the series as we know it. JJ liked the setup, but could not find anything remarkable about the story. It needed some kind of extra element to grab people and bring them back each week for more.
Lieber had every right to file suit against ABC because of the substantial similarity of several characters. Lieber came up with the idea of putting a pregnant girl, a doctor, a rich priss, etc. on an island together. He retains the right to this construct. Even if Lieber’s script hadn’t been given to JJ, he still could have applied for some kind of credit, as JJ and Damon were all in the writing guild and would have ample access to all kinds of scripts floating around the TV wilderness due to the substantial similarity of characters.
So Lieber can claim some level of creation credit and it’s prefectly fine that he did. JJ and Damon took some of his characters and expanded them and completely altered the events happening around them, but they still took Lieber’s characters.
I read the snippets of Lieber’s script and I can only say thank God that ABC sacked him! His draft, while original, was nothing remarkable whatsoever. The show certainly would not have lasted a whole season, because nobody would care to watch people merely surviving on an island. JJ and Damon injected the mystery and suspense element that was lacking.
As for Lieber and his ‘hollow victory,’ it must be a really tough life when you’re getting paid good money for something you were barely involved with at all. Especially when that easy money alows you to have nothing better to do than whine to a hometown publication (with national reach no less) who is willing to write a 5 page article defending your no talent hack abilities. I mean, have you seen Tuck Everlasting?
Point is, while Lieber does deserve a minor amount of credit, he seems rather ungrateful about it. I completely agree with DocArzt when he writes “The problem wasn’t that ABC wanted something and he didn’t have the opportunity to do what he was told. The problem was ABC wanted something innovative from someone who didn’t need to be told what to do. Someone whose own imprint on the overused ‘castaways’ motiff would outshine the subtle homages to “Lord of the Flies.” Jeff Lieber could not deliver that.”
That explains it right there. If you’re not going to try and take chances on a script and instead wait and hope the network will tell you what they want, then there’s no place for you.
Comment by G-Man — August 7, 2007 @ 10:25 am
I apologize for my comment being all squashed like that. I didn’t realize you needed to put break tags in to separate paragraphs.
Comment by G-Man — August 7, 2007 @ 10:36 am
If I may offer my two cents: No, I don’t think Jeffrey Lieber “created” LOST. Although ABC may be a little dodgy in their comments, it’s basically true . . . if you gave the concept to ten writers, they all would have created similar characters. That’s just how writers work. They draw on archetypes and scenarios familar from previously told stories. However, it’s putting a new spin on those things which matters. JJ, Damon and Carlton have taken a bunch of familiar ideas and remixed them in a cool way; Jeffrey Lieber didn’t.
However, I think it’s a little unfair to say he’s a hack simply because he didn’t come up with anything along the lines of DHARMA, the monster, the Others, etc. In his defense, at the time ABC was not thinking in those terms. Lieber was told to keep it very true to reality. He was working in a very small box. I mean, the network thought a shark attack scene was too far out there. That’s telling you that ABC themselves weren’t exactly thriving with imagination. They couldn’t tell Lieber what they wanted because they didn’t know what they wanted. Lloyd Braun had an absolutely half-assed idea for a TV series and had no clue what to do with it, and Lieber was left to handle Braun’s extremely limited concept.
It wasn’t until JJ and Damon arrived and said they wanted to incorporate mystery into the series that ABC realized the concept needed to expand. And it’s important to remember that JJ and Damon had to convince ABC that LOST isn’t really a sci-fi show or involving the supernatural. The network didn’t want that and were iffy on anything that suggested sci-fi or fantasy. JJ and Damon pretty much had to lie to the network, so that ABC wouldn’t peg LOST as a genre series. So even the people who created the series had to downplay its more creative elements. All of this is a way of saying that networks don’t want imagination and creativity; they want viewers, they want advertising, and they want money. It’s a business, simple as that. They had no clue what they wanted, creatively, with their series, and gave Jeff Lieber very little to work with. JJ Abrams has more clout than Lieber and can get away with more, so the network trusted him. I just don’t think the lack of creativity in the NOWHERE concept rests solely on Lieber’s shoulders. ABC and Lloyd Braun were clearly little help to him, and they can take no credit for the creative direction of the current series.
Comment by Paula Abdul Alhazred — August 7, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
That guy makes me really angry. Shows go through re-write after re-write. Hollywood is filled with writers who get written out of projects they had contributed to, or even worse included in projects that don’t resemble what they originally wrote. He is lucky he got anything. What a baby.
Comment by Me — August 8, 2007 @ 9:41 am