Lost - The Kid in the Box?
A new theory is beginning to arise concerning the identity of the mysterious Mr. or Mrs. Lantham/Latham. A poster at the pearl did some pretty inventive detective work and confirmed that the casket was far too small for an adult. To see their study visit this link.
I will say in challenging their reading that i held my own hand down to see what my relaxed span was and my span was nearly 7 inches. I’m a mere 5′5" (Yeah, I’m short… get over it) and Matthew Fox is 6′2", I’m guessing his span could be as wide as 8" easily, which would make the casket around 7′4" wide. But I wasn’t going to just leave it to the double blind, so I tried another method to see if I came anywhere near their measurements.
.jpg)
click for full size
If we go with the mid-riff, we’re still looking at six feet max and with liner, you have an effective carcass storage area of somewhere around 5′8.
Looking at the height of some of the suspects: Michael Emerson is 5′8" making Ben a very good possibility going with the max measurements. Harold Perrineau is 5′10, which would be pushing it with either estimate.
Again, though, the LOST producers, prop masters, writers, editors, etc, are going to make mistakes which we are not intended to catch. So does work like this really get us closer to the truth, or just prove how insanely obsessed we are with the most minute details?
Wow! 7 inches, Doc. I’m impressed.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
While my analysis was nowhere near as quantitative, I thought the the coffin looked a little on the small side during the episode.
Comment by mmattm — May 30, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Do I dare reply?
Comment by DocArzt — May 30, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Isn’t there a scene with the funeral director standing next to the casket? I’ve seen him before so I’m sure someone knows who it is and could find out his height. Seems like a much easier task and more accurate. (I’m not trying to diminish your effort on this at all Doc)
Comment by bdub — May 30, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
Wow. I had to post… do you even know how big an inch is?? If you’re hand, laid out like Jack’s in the picture from the other guy’s comparisons, is near 7 inches then you, my friend, are a giant. A big handed, scary giant man. That is all
Comment by wowser — May 30, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
Doc,
The study shows Foxs’ width as 4 inches. That’s why Wowser thinks you are a giant. Besides, it’s not the size that counts.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
By the way, I’m 6 ft and my hand was about 6 1/2 to 7 inches. But real thick.
This never gets old.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
http://www.thetailsection.com/docs_hand.jpg
Granted, my thumb was straight out, which was due to faulty memory, But if you take the thumb right from the joint, to be conservative, its still 6 inches. (Reality would be closer to 6 1/2 I think, but I’m fair… even in the face of being called a giant handed freak
) and Fox clearly has a longer, more slender hand than I do. I figure him at 7 inches there at the very least.
Comment by DocArzt — May 30, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
wow…this site has taken a turn for the weird innuendo facts club….I’m not even going to get into the width of my hand but suffice it to say at 7′6″, it’s no slouch…yes, I am Yao Ming..my identity has been revealed
Back to WHO’s in the casket, I gotta stick with Michael..based on the obituiary(if that can be trusted) it still bothers me that even survived by a teenage son, there’s still no one showing up…
Comment by El Prez — May 30, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
It could be someone with no legs…
Comment by Brick — May 30, 2007 @ 5:33 pm
Well, it’s officially time to put the therapist on speed dial!
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 30, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
I’m not sure I understand why no one can just take the obit at face value: inside the coffin is (1) a MAN (not a child), (2) named J___ ___ntham (possibly John Lantham).
I’m going to have to go with Occam’s razor on this one and conclude that the person inside the coffin is simply a man whom we have not been introduced to yet in the show, unless someone can demonstrate why an obit that says a man named John Lantham died is actual code for a child dying or Michael, Ben, Walt, Sawyer, etc., etc. (i.e., people w/o the name John Lantham) dying.
Comment by Kevin — May 30, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Higdon: The Mearth theory actually does work!
Doc: This is starting to look like a CSI Mystery Island site.
Prez: I’m sticking with Michael too.
Comment by gusteaux — May 30, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
My brain is so fried by my obsession with this show. I cant believe I overlooked the obvious. The man in the box is Juliet’s husband after he got hit by that bus. They just threw the plastic bag inside.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
with all the explosions and deaths on the show it could’ve been someone who’s had their legs blown off!
Comment by nickk — May 30, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
You know, typing Mystery Island a few posts ago made me wonder why no one has named the island. It would seem that someone would have given it a name by now.
I fully understand that no one who has ever inhabited it had any desire for it to ever appear on a map or for the outside world to even know of its existance. I understand that in talking among themselves (losties, others, Dharma) they would likely just say, “the island.” But at somepoint, wouldn’t young Alex say, “Daddy, what’s the name of our island?”
I’m even more surprised that the fan community hasn’t given it a name. The fan community has created: Benry, Patchy, Smokey, Jate, Skate, Juliak, and Mrs. Hawking(althouth Ive never seen or heard, Desnelope).
When we didn’t know, or couldn’t remember their names, we called them The Crazy French Lady, Eye Patch Guy, Eye Liner Guy and Taking A S*** Guy. Everyone knew who was being talked about.
There’s a town on the island we’ve named Othersville. I think Danielle had a name for the patch of forest around the Black Rock, although I can’t recall it at the moment.
So, whata you say, Doc? How about a Name the Island contest?
Geeeez…it’s Wednesday night…it’s only been….one…week…
Comment by gusteaux — May 30, 2007 @ 6:37 pm
I like to refer to it as the Island. It is the God to the believers on the Island, and possibly off. You should probably refer to it as She. Because She is moody, constantly getting involved in other people’s business, inviting people over all the time and the judging! Enough with the judging woman! Now go make me a sandwich, Island.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
My friends and I all noticed that the casket looked a little small during the finale last week. I really hope that the size has significance. A mistake by the creators would just be real lame on their part. We all were thinking Walt. But it would make no sense for him to have kids and Jack would def call him a friend… wouldnt you think. Who knows. Must be someone we have yet to meet.
Comment by G — May 30, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
Just to back you up Doc, I’m 6′1″ and when my hand is laid out on a rounded surface, like a casket, in exactly the same manner as jack’s, I find a width of 6.9 inches.
That being said, I’m hoping that the person in the casket is someone we haven’t met yet. I’m hoping that we will be introduced to someone new who’s so significant to this whole story, that his suicide would be just enough to make Jack leap off of a bridge.
A thought just crossed me. You know in the movies how people are always faking their death for money, love, or to escape from a place or person? The people who are successful are the ones who totally mutilate someone else’s corpse (removing teeth etc) and then, say, burn the body in a house fire — or, at least, the ones who don’t have anyone identifying the body/showing up to the viewing. What if this person that Jack is so heart-broken about, merely faked his own death to escape the lies that Jack was yelling about — or needed to do so, for some reason/person, to return to the island.
Meh, just thinking while typing. It makes absolutely no difference if I’m right or wrong.
Comment by MajinTopcat — May 30, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Well, I did a little sleuthing of my own and found out the stand upon which a coffin rests for viewing is referred to as a Casket Bier. They oddly all come in almost the exact same size. 22″ high x 25″ wide x 65″ long. Making them a little shy of Five and a half feet. They do not make a children’s or youth sized bier. So that would make the coffin somewhere around seven feet. Which, allowing for padding, would accommodate an even larger than average adult. Why it looks small to some people, I don’t know. If I had to venture a guess it would be the length of the bier compared to the casket. It does look like it should stick farther out.
Comment by thejungleman — May 30, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
If Ben is in the coffin then maybe Karl is his real son (with hampster lady) as he is a teenager. They have never explained where he came from and who his parents are. There are no other teenagers because of the pregnancy problems and we know Alex was conceived off Island by Danielle & Robert??? So where would a teenager come from on that Island? LOL
Comment by H20 — May 30, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
Whether or not it’s a kid in the box, I have something to say about the one clue we do have as to who died. The name could possibly be Jeremy Bentham. Many character names are significant in Lost. Some cite specific individuals (John Locke), while others reference themes (Christian Shepard).
I was a criminal justice major at Georgia Southern University. If anyone knows the school…I graduated in 4 1/2 years! Anyways, now and then I’d go to class. I remember studying Bentham’s Panopticon prison and found it fascinating. The idea, which is still in practice today, is that all prisoners are given the feeling that they are being watched without actually having to feel watched. The prison design, for those that care, was a central turret able to look into each and every prison cell. Because of the probability of being watched, prisoners were less likely to behave poorly.
I submit that the name will turn out to be Jeremy Bentham, because of the connections we’ve seen regarding observation and the feeling of being watched. Obviously, the Pearl was used as a monitoring station for a psychological experiment and, ironically, was subject to that same experiment. Because of the many camera’s in the Swan, and again in the Pearl, the occupants always knew they were being watched and it certainly affected behavior.
The one easter egg that most Lost fans don’t know about, and few have explored are the whispers that we either hear, or are rooted out by the audio freaks out there. Not only do most cases of the whispers involve several independent voices, but they almost always indicate they are observing the action on screen. Furthermore, some of the characters have heard these whispers. Sawyer heard them, and his body language indicated he knew he was being watched.
Does this explain who Jeremy Bentham is? No. Just laying out the evidence of the thematic connection.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
A sentence above should end “without actually having to be watched”.
Comment by Higdon — May 30, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
I think we can all agree that unless jack has the hands of a small, small child there’s no way their estimate of 4″ is correct, which pretty much discredits the entire study, and at the same time, ironically, any considerations of the coffin being smaller than normal.
Honestly, all this speculation is just silly. We’ll find out who is in the coffin sooner or later.
Comment by Jimmy — May 30, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
C’mon Jimmy, we have to have something to do.
Comment by DocArzt — May 30, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
To someone who said maybe it’s a mutilated or burned corpse, that wouldn’t be, since they offered to open the casket. They wouldn’t do that if the body was destroyed or horribly disfigured in any way, I wouldn’t think…
Comment by Brick — May 30, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
More important than who is in the coffin, who killed this person? All of the noise the neighbors heard is evidence that someone put up a fight.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 31, 2007 @ 12:14 am
Brick, I wasnt suggesting that the body was burned or mutilated, just that thats what they do in the movies. I ~was~ suggesting however, that if no one knew him well enough to come to the funeral, maybe no one knew him well enough to recognize him or identify the body. That would allow him to disappear, go into hiding, return to the island etc etc.
It was just a random thought. I didnt mean for it to go anywhere really, seeing that I dont believe that it is the case. Just thought Id clear that up tho.
Comment by MajinTopcat — May 31, 2007 @ 12:40 am
when the funeral director asks ‘friend or family?’ jack doesn’t say ‘neither’
he says ‘either’
Comment by mr mcqueen — May 31, 2007 @ 2:20 am
It might sound a little obvious, but the episode was about Jacks sorrow/regret about getting off the island. In the episode, the Charlie sacrificed himself in order to get everyone off the island. Given that Charlie wasn’t exactly a tall man, wouldn’t it be more more appropriate to the story that Charlie might be the man inside the casket. (that they might have eventually found his body).
Obviously it doesn’t answer why the name on the scrap of paper is J___ ___ntham, or why Charlie’s brother/family never went to the funeral. But it would tie the episode up more fully if was the case.
Comment by davidnottingham — May 31, 2007 @ 4:03 am
I think the name in the paper is Jeremy Bentham as well. They like using philosopher names. I knew about the prison thing, too, and thought it sounded a lot like what is going on in Lost with all those whispers. Also, interesting is that Bentham had himself mummified. He is on display at a university in England, sitting in a chair, in something he called an “auto-icon”–a big glass display case.
They messed up his head during the preservation process, so he’s always had a wax head in the auto-icon. They used to display the head there as well, but students kept stealing if for pranks, so it’s locked away now. Maybe he is Jacob and he wants Locke to find his head and help him out of his chair?
Comment by jonv — May 31, 2007 @ 6:14 am
Ill say it again, the person in the coffin is the person that takes them off the island, and the first person we will see next season.
Comment by Sheepboy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:32 am
OK… sure… 4″ is the average width of a mans hand… the palm of the hand across the base of the 4 fingers!
That’s not including the thump and stretched out little fingers. Add on at LEAST another 3″.
Looking at the photo again, I think the casket is normal size…. and if it’s not, it’s just by a few inches… and it just a prop!
I can see them now.. Get me an 80″ casket! Not an 84″! The dead person is just 5′4 and we want to clue in our viewers that the yet to be introduced character in the casket is shorter than average by about 4″!
Just so you know… they generally sell 84″ caskets whether you’re 5′2 or 6′4… it’s when it’s a child, a dwarf, or if you’re 7′ tall that you get the other sizes.
Comment by tom — May 31, 2007 @ 7:36 am
I finally have something to contribute after lurking here so long. Yay!
I understand why we are using Jack’s hand and height to try and determine the size of the coffin, but since it seems to be prone to lots of error, why not change the measuring device?
My thought is the chairs in the picture on the other site. Surely someone could find one and measure it to come up with some numbers. They would be more “standard” than a body or body part. Granted the angle in the shot might change things slightly, but it would be an approximation. I may even work on this myself.
Maybe there is something else in a shot that might work even better. What do you guys think?
Comment by lucas — May 31, 2007 @ 8:03 am
Okay. I looked into it and taking the info about the chair here the seat is 12″x11″. I believe 12″ is the length across the front. Making a line and a very rough copy and paste in paint I can fit 11 and some of one more across the top of the casket so it would seem to be a standard size.
Comment by lucas — May 31, 2007 @ 8:30 am
Not to be critical of all the analysis. But caskets aren’t usually custom sized depending on the deceased. The exterior length of standard caskets appear to be between 81″ and 84″.
All I could find were interior lengths of children’s caskets which ranged from 40″ to 60″.
The dimensions of the “Lost” casket appear to be closer to adult sized than child sized.
Comment by gbfitz — May 31, 2007 @ 8:42 am
More info on johv’s post about Jeremy Bentham can be found at http://www.ucl.ac.uk/Bentham-Project/Faqs/auto_icon.htm
Although many feel that the last name in the newspaper article is Lantham or Latham not Bentham.
Comment by stingerdawg — May 31, 2007 @ 9:28 am
Maybe when Locke leaves the island he is so frusterated that he just chops his no good legs off hence casket small. Also no one would go to Lockes funeral because Locke had no one. And the reason Jack went and is so sad is because he wished that he would have listened to Locke by not leaving the island.
Comment by lost815 — May 31, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Wow Dav… I did take notice, that they were WRONG. Obviously you missed that part. Please complete remedial reading and return when you are intellectually prepared to comment.
Comment by DocArzt — May 31, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
How could we have forgotten already? The coffin is so small because it contains Justin Timberlake’s junk.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA
Is this the same box Ben spoke of?
Comment by Higdon — May 31, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
A little (well, a lot) off topic, but I found it odd that they had a Charlie flashback-esque moment to the previous episode when Desmond explained about the flashing light. I thought long and hard, and cannot recall anytime, during single character’s flashback (or, in this case, forward) episode, that another character had a flashback-type of scene. The only multi-character flashback that I recall were shows like the Paolo and Nikki, the Season 1 finale (where they were all heading to the airport–common theme), etc. I know what they were doing, but it felt out of place, and fit better at the beginning of the episode in the “previously on Lost” moments. Was it just me that felt this was an odd choice?
Comment by Brick — May 31, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
I’m still saying it’s Ben. If not Ben, then John Locke. A name can be changed. They can explain away the teenage son thing. Ben enjoys reading and seems to have a creative soul, so it’s possible he turned to art to fill some of the void caused by leaving the island. The casket is about Ben-sized from what I can tell. But most of my “evidence” comes from pure deduction based on dialogue and the narrative itself. A)When asked if Jack is friend or family, Jack looks confused and says “neither.” Obviously, he had no love for Ben. If it had been any other castaway, he probably would have said friend because, even though he had his problems with his fellow survivors, they had a connection. B)Ben was with them when Jack made the call. The writers intentionally put him in a situation in which he would be with the rescued group. Locke went off and hid somewhere, so it’s possible he never left. C)As you said, whoever died basically drove Jack to suicide. Who would be most likely to do that besides the man who knew the most about the island and how to get back there? D)He changed his name to John with last initial L as a sort of ironic gesture because Locke got to stay behind. E) Why does everybody assume that, just because there were a couple of black guys standing on the sidewalk across from the funeral home, that it was a “black neighborhood.” That seems a bit racist. I know they made a point to show them, but still. So, as far as just simple logic takes us, it seems Ben is the best candidate. I’m probably wrong, but it seems that to introduce a new character as a dead guy and not to give him any development and then just expect us to fill in the blanks about his importance is a bit silly.
Comment by Jared — June 1, 2007 @ 5:33 am
perseph:
Re: your last sentence above…
Pehaps you missed my reply from your first posting of the same commment on the “Lost Finale Analysis-The Journal” thread, so here it is again:
Charlie didn’t “guess the right tune on the first try.” Bonnie told him that the code was the notes to “Good Vibrations.” (Although I do agree that Charlie was the musician who originally programmed the code in another timeline.)
Comment by gusteaux — June 2, 2007 @ 8:19 am
Gusteaux: Doesn’t it makes sense that Charlie knows the tune because he’s attempted it before in another timeline as opposed to being the one who programmed it? We know we have time/space issues, but in Desmond’s flashback the changes he made in his life were more “course corrective” than anything. The idea that in another timeline, Charlie would be working for Dharma is a pretty big stretch. Although, I’m right there with you regarding him being familiar with it. I’m sure someone mentioned this, but the keypad wasn’t like your telephone pad, it had 15 numbers I believe. So to just start typing in numbers and getting it right after only a couple tries would be impossible.
Comment by Higdon — June 3, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Higdon,
That Charlie entered the code in another timeline rather than originally posting it is a very real possiblity. However, Bonnie said that it was “programmed by a musician.” My question is, what other musician have we met on the island? The only other I can think of is Jack. He seemed to be quite an adept pianist. For Charlie to have programmed it in another timeline does not necessarily mean that he was working for Dharma. It could be that he and Desmond, in another timeline, disabled a numeric code, realized the ship wasn’t Penny’s, and Charlie reprogrammed it so that the Others would not know the code in the future. The key pad had 16 characters.
Comment by gusteaux — June 4, 2007 @ 5:43 am
I stand corrected on the number of keys. With all due respect, I still can’t follow the logic of your argument. If Charlie programmed it with the intent that the others wouldn’t know it in the future, then how would Bonnie have known which numbers to push (she started listing them, before she revealed what the tune was) or the tune itself. And we may have met the musician. If you recall, all the Dharma employees in the Man behind the Curtain had name tags with job duties on them. I bet if we went back frame by frame there would be a musician, with a neatly labled job tag that read “Musician”.
I do find the name of the tune “Good Vibrations” to be very interesting. Obviously, the tune hits the hippie-surfer vibe that still embodies some Californians to this day. We also know that the song refers to having a really good acid trip, another hippie reference, and how I feel when I watch Lost. Less importantly, Brian Wilson’s Mom told him that some people give off “Good Vibrations” which is why dogs bark at some people and not others. The MOST interesting connection, IMO, is the Quantum Mechanic connection with that song. Here’s a quick quote from “Vibrations, Probability Waves and Quantum Mechanics”
“…atom as a collection of localised waves whose different vibrational states in space corresponded to different states of matter. Stable atoms consisted of wave configurations with the fewest oscillations in space and the lowest frequency in time”.
Basically, atoms in everything are always moving. Fast enough to vibrate. The speed of their movement determines the stability of the object.
I think the mythology of this show is deeply rooted in Quantum Mechanics. That’s what makes the possiblity of teleportation and time travel a scientific possiblity.
Comment by Higdon — June 4, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
the occupants always knew they were being watched and it certainly affected behavior.
Comment by wow gold — November 28, 2008 @ 7:21 pm