Through The Looking Glass!
Well, the finale is behind us… time to come to grips with what we witnessed!
- Is Christian Shephard alive? Maybe the best question is, will today’s modern, networked, computerized pharmacies fill prescriptions from dead doctors?
- Okay Des, why did you stand there with your mouth agape when you could have high tailed it into the water and brought poor Charlie an air tank?
- Maybe that is exactly what happened! Wasn’t that the song Charlie was ‘writing’ playing on Jack’s radio when he pulled up to the funeral parlor?
- Ben’s diary, the news clipping… anybody have a good HD screen cap?
- Game Changer! But how will the game change? Will we continue the linear island story but have a future story running parallel in flash forwards? Or will this evaporate for another season like last years game changer?
- Continuity flaw, or is Naomi just a cunning spy? Naomi already told us she never met Penny.
Don’t have a screen cap, but all I could see was “Man found dead in downtown apartment” and mentions of a loft.
So we know it was a man…
Comment by Dan — May 23, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
The song that was on Jacks radio was Nirvana. From the In Utero album..I think it was released it 94 if that holds any relevance…
Comment by Wilco — May 23, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
Wow. what an ending! my husband and i were yelling at the tv the whole time and were so surprised! i have to say that i’m so sad about charlie. i cried a little. why did he do that? he could’ve shut the door behing him or held his breath to swim out of the window when the water filled the room. anyways, great show. i can’t wait for next season!
Comment by Lauren — May 23, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
I truly hope they don’t have season 4 focused on the Lostie’s lives off the island. I can’t even venture a guess as to where season 4 is going to take off though. Awesome finale!! ALEX AND DANIELLE FINALLY MEET! YAY!
Comment by Dale Smith — May 23, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
people keep on telling me it was sawyer’s funeral but kate told jack she had to get back because “he” would wonder where she was or whatever….
Comment by yes — May 23, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
It was Serve the Servants
Comment by Joe Shmo — May 23, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
I’m guessing the dead man was Sawyer, but thats just my gut. So is this future definitive or could it possibly change depending on what happens between now and then? I wonder.
Comment by Todd — May 23, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
One more thing - we know that Chris Shepherd is dead because we saw his dead body in a flash back scene at the morgue.
Comment by Dale Smith — May 23, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
I was thinking, what if the next season they are all off Island and having flashes of on Island or after they left the island? Maybe Charlie sacraficed himself because he figured that’s what was suppose to happen. Maybe Jack made Ben get off the island too an maybe Ben was the one who died / jack went to the funeral for. Maybe Kate and Sawyer got married? This episode was AWESOME!!! i can’t wait for the season to return…so many thoughts and speculations….
Comment by LiLi — May 23, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
Unfortunately, what we witnessed, was nothing. NOTHING. NO answers. NO surprises. NOTHING shocking. Just more questions. Which I am fine with if that is what we were promised, but it was not. We were promised answers and I want them. I already knew Naomi was not from Penny. I already knew Lock was going to “raise from the dead”. I already knew Ben would find out that Juliet was double crossing him (which was, I am sure, his plan all along). I am tired of the “come and talk with me alone” cliche that miraculously EVERYONE falls for (ie Ben requesting to talk with Jack). I have a lot of faith in the writers of this series to keep it something special. But to tease us with answers we never really needed was cruel and unusual punishment in my opion. That said, had I NOT been expecting some legitimate answers, I would have to say that this was yet again another beautiful episode. Dominic performed extraordinarily well (hope he is still alive, of course). I would say I can’t wait for next season, but until the producers, the bigshots, the writers or whoever, get it through their heads that true fans are not to be toyed with, I honestly don’t know if I will pick this book up again.
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 23, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
I think the show is going to change from flashbacks to “future-backs.”
I think we’re done with real-time moments on the Island, but things will change because different choices will be made.
Jack’s future reality is the end-all reality.
What did Jack mean by “I’m tired of lying?”
Comment by Rell — May 23, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
The Nirvana song is indeed from the album In Utero…but the song is called “Scentless Apprentice.”
Comment by Craig — May 23, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
BTW does anyone know why Sawyer told Mr. Friendly AKA Tom “that’s for taking the kid out of the raft” after shooting him. I was a bit puzzeled. I don’t think he was talking about Karl because Tom wasn’t there when they all escaped from the others.
Comment by LiLi — May 23, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
actually the song was Scentless Apprentice and its from 1993.
Comment by Sean — May 23, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
I can’t wait for the next season. I really want to know what the real story is behind Naomi, and whether or not Locke knows something about her. Also, are Walt and Michael destined to return? And I think the funeral could be for either Ben or Locke, but that’s just a guess.
Comment by CLi — May 23, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
I can’t wait for the next season. I really want to know what the real story is behind Naomi, and whether or not Locke knows something about her. Also, are Walt and Michael destined to return? And I think the funeral could be for either Ben or Locke, but that’s just a guess.
Comment by CLi — May 23, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
He was referring to him taking Walt away from them in season one. Also, I think the funeral was for Lock.
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 23, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
Tom was aboard the boat when they abducted Walt.
Comment by Craig — May 23, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
They answered a TON of questions…
Comment by Rell — May 23, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
Stupidly kept spelling Locke “Lock” - I am up wayyy past my bedtime. Apologies.
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 23, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
Sawyer was talking about Walt. It’s interesting that he still is really upset about that. I mean, hadn’t Sawyer seen Tom before on the small island? Suddenly, so enraged about it.
Comment by Lauren — May 23, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
Rell - what questions did they actually answer?
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 23, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
The song was “Scentless Apprentice” from “In Uetero.” It was released in 1993. I think there is plenty of signifigance here. I don’t think it was a flash forward. I’m convinced the island has a great deal to do with bending space and time. I think Jack and Kate are in the mid 90’s when we see them at the end. What if the island is a doorway to alternate planes? It seems Jack knows they made a mistake by leaving. Desmond’s ability will be real important. When all is said and done I believe we will have to piece things together kind of like “Pulp Fiction” with a space/time continuum twist…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Two things:
Jack: “Get my father down here. Get him down here now. If I’m drunker than he is, you can fire me.” Two things:
Jack: “Get my father down here. Get him down here now. If I’m drunker than he is, you can fire me.” < Indicating that Christian is alive.
I was thinking it was Michael’s funeral. Who would go? Would Walt even go?
Comment by gusteaux — May 23, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
I like the future flash, but the more I think about it it seems to me that Jack was thinking what might happen if he is wrong about what they were doing and what would happen to him if they did get off the island..doesnt explain the funeral though.
Comment by Wilco — May 23, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
That phone was very modern-day.
Comment by andy — May 23, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
I believe on one of the stills from the obituary posting, it says that the man is from New York. From checking lost-pedia, Michael is from NY and so is Bernard. But i doubt its either of them, From what i can tell…the Obituary reads as follows:
Los Angeles
Man found dead in downtown LA
The body of J …. ntham of New York was found shortly after 4 a.m. in the ….. of Grand A…
and thats about all i can tell…the rest is gibberish…could it be Jacob?!?!? cant think of any1 else thats name starts with a J and last name ends in ntham…by the way…i hope that they can still alter their futures and that the flashforward we saw wasn’t definitive cause it was a little depressing…
Comment by RDT — May 23, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
I don’t think it can be the 90’s because of Jack’s razor phone. i thought there was a big point about that because we saw it, like, 8 times.
Comment by Lauren — May 23, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
What I found odd was Jack insisting that the doctor at the hospital talk to his father to see who has been drinking more and the girl at the drug store that his father filled/wrote the prescription. If this was a flash into the future…what could have changed so much that Jack’s dead father comes back to life?
Comment by Craig — May 23, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
Thank’s you guys!! i forgot all about WAlt being taken for a moment.
Comment by LiLi — May 23, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
I’m guessing this is going for the Donnie Darko plotline.
They shouldn’t be back home because they’re bodies were found in the plane under water.
Comment by ruckstande — May 23, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
i think the funeral was for ben. nobody would want to go to bens funeral, except for jack, because jack realized ben was right, they werent supposed to leave the island.
the beig thing is that there is definately some problem with the world. jacob is either christian sheppard or locke, and jacob is sill on the island. when jacob said help me, it was because he knew what jack was going to do and he knew it would cause everything to happen and things would go bad. i still think that time travel is in play, one way or another.
Comment by skip — May 23, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
Funeral has to be Ben’s. After everyone is removed from the island, Ben had NO ONE back in the states. Neither “friend or family.”
Jack visited him because he knew, in the end, Ben was right.
Kate even said “Why would I have gone to his funeral?”
It was someone who was despised by the losties and someone who had no one back home to attend his funeral.
This is just a guess. I doubt it’d be Locke. I assume he stays on the island. But then again…so would Ben…
This is brilliant writing and a great idea for the next few seasons. We’ve seen the past and present. Keep with the day to day story telling and make the flashbacks flashFORWARDS. Great story telling and a great show!
Comment by xtremdelt — May 23, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
Another point here is that when Jack is talking about his golden ticket he mentions going to Singapore (tattoos). Perhaps there is quite a bit more to other flashbackforwards we’ve seen…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
It’s the future — Oceanic wouldn’t have given them golden tickets unless they felt they had to make it up to them or something.
But Jack is tired of lying — maybe they left some people behind?
Comment by andy — May 23, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
I’m guessing the man who was found dead in his apartment was Michael. Why? The neighborhood where the funeral parlor was was definitely shown to be an all-black neighborhood. They made a point of showing it. It would also explain why Kate would be angry at Jack’s expectation that she would have gone to the viewing, and it would tie into the story of Michael and Walt getting off the island.
Comment by CG — May 23, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
I always look real close at people hanging around any scene…and I swear I saw Jin on the plane with a bearded Jack, anyone else see that or was I seein’ things?
Comment by I'm LOST — May 23, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
so will someone please try and explain how Jack’s father could be alive? and also who you think is in the casket. Thanks
Comment by Shannon — May 23, 2007 @ 9:36 pm
Brilliant writing - yes. And yet NO real answers. Does anyone have anything definitive? It is okay if you don’t, because I think the show can stand on its own without answering ahead of the game. I am just frustrated that there was a teaser about some answers and all I saw were more questions (great ones - YEAH!), but answers, nada. Maybe I am just too tired to process this, but can anyone throw me a line here?…
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 23, 2007 @ 9:36 pm
I posted links to some screens and no one seems to care. Not sure where the psot went, So anyways, someone claims to have decoded this name:
Jeremy Bentham
Comment by Mr herman — May 23, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
Good point about the phone. I’m stuck on Christian. Why would he be alive? Maybe it’s more like 2004 right around the time Christian goes to Australia (Jack says he’s out of town)…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
time warping is a cool idea, but you’re forgetting Jack was showcasing a brand new Motorola cellphone throughout the entire “flash forward” that was definitely not around in 1993. also, a very pregnant sarah came to visit him at the hospital.
Comment by WaLtIsJeSuS — May 23, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Oh yeah…and I am venturing a guess that it was Locke that died. Once he got off of the island so to speak if thats what went on, he couldnt walk anymore. My guess is he commited suicide.
Comment by I'm LOST — May 23, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
quote from RDT:
Los Angeles
Man found dead in downtown LA
The body of J …. ntham of New York was found shortly after 4 a.m. in the ….. of Grand A…
————————
I was able to make out “The body of Jo…” But then since the image isn’t very clear (due to a crease right after the “o”) it could very likely be an “a”.
John Locke / James Ford???
Comment by Koobie — May 23, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
I know it was only a flash, but did anyone else see someone who looked like Mr. Ecko standing on the corner/in front of the store when Jack drove his vehicle up to the curb to walk towards the funeral home? Prob. just seeing things….
Comment by Craig — May 23, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Also, Kate doesn’t seem to be a fugitive anymore.
Comment by gusteaux — May 23, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
I’m Lost - I thought I saw Jin and Sun behind Jack on the airplane at the beginning too, but I looked at it over and over on DVR and it wasn’t them, but they were Asian.
I’ll tell you who’s funeral I bet it WASN’T - Richard Alpert. The man lives forever.
Comment by lostlover — May 23, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
These future-backs are definately not for certain, I think they reflect the results of upcoming decisions Jack and the other Losties will have to make. Just wait.
Comment by Wes — May 23, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
I know one thing as an absolute certainty. This will be haunting me until February…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
What’s everyone’s thoughts on the Locke and Walt situation???
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Christian could be alive due to changes that Desmond made. It could be have been watching the alternate timeline since the beginning.
What about the hint to 815? They said if you watch closely you’ll get a clue. Anybody?
Comment by DocArzt — May 23, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
thats the worst thing about it…..we have to wait till freaking 08….
Comment by yes — May 23, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
Indeed, the funeral must be for someone for whom no one would show up, and for whom the funeral would be held in a run-down funeral home in not the best neighborhood.
We also know it’s male. I would rule out Michael (he doesn’t strike me as the type for whom no one would come to the funeral), Hurley (has family), Jin (would be in Korea), etc.
I think it points to Locke or Sawyer, and I think Kate’s line about “him” should indicate Sawyer being “at home.” The idea of it being Ben’s funeral is really interesting, but I would wonder why no one came. What would have happened that no one from Hanso/Mittelos etc would come?
Comment by kkty — May 23, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
A few things stand out to me:
“Are you family or friend?” … “Neither.” Don’t guess it could be his OWN funeral, could it?
Then Locke telling Jack - “You weren’t supposed to do this.” Makes me think Locke is clued in to the whole choices affect your timeline thing.
And Jack at the end saying “I’m tired of lying.” What the heck is he lying about?
Comment by lostlover — May 23, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
What about this, the last clip of Kate and Jack talking. They both obviously are off the island. Jack obviously feels he needs to go back and Kate does not.
Maybe kate has no remorse for something Jack does about the island as they left it. Im saying that a few of them might have left everyone there and Jack feels guilt about it. or…jack felt a sense of importance being a leader on the island and feels he needs that cause now he doesnt have anything…hope that made sense
Comment by Wes — May 23, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Everybody should keep one thing in mind… it is possible that we may not yet know the person in the coffin.
While the flash-forwards are most likely current day, that does not mean that there wasn’t alot more time spent on the island before they were rescued.
Perhaps as the next season unfolds, we’ll see events events occur on the island that answer questions we have about the flash-forwards… not too much unlike how the flash-backs answered questions about charchters on the island.
Comment by Gadget27 — May 23, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
Jeremy Bentham…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
Comment by Rell — May 23, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
One: I think we saw Jacob’s eyes again. I have a screencap in the gallery area of the link.
Two: I figured the funeral was bernard’s. Jack and Kate would have felt responsible for the death of Rose. She would have died shortly after leaving the island from cancer. Bernard probably would not have lasted much longer.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 23, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
Why do some people “die” on the island and others miraculously do not? (Locke and Patchy obviously; Christian Sheppard?). Could it be that they are not in their natural timeline and therefore cannnot be killed (like Desmond when he turned the key?)
How does Desmond’s time traveling experience tie into this new future thread?
Why did the non-aging Richard(in with the time travelers) let weasly Ben take over? I mean if he could cause a bus to take out Juliet’s ex, why does he need the Wizard of Oz to manipulate the people on the island?
Why does DHARMA keep dropping off food to the island when Ben killed off the 40 DHARMALites year ago? How could they not know their people were killed by Ben?
Could the freighter by owned by Penny’s father who is trying to get to him before Penny does?
Comment by suznotsuzy — May 23, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
I think the cellphone Jack had was the KRZR which is a very new phone (September 2006 release). I noted it right away and thought it was a bizarre thing for the producers to miss. Then when I saw Kate on screen I was like… damn… the future.
So the question is, is this future written in stone. Will we have flash backs to the island from the future. The word is they will be shooting in LA… so maybe that affects it somehow. There is still much to explain about the island, I can’t imagine the lostie’s actually leave at this moment.
Comment by MossMan — May 23, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
It will be interesting if the flashbacks become island based scenes, and the present is off the island.
Comment by a — May 23, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
It will be interesting if the flashbacks become island based scenes, and the present is off the island.
Comment by a — May 23, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
I love the idea Gadget. Future stories, posing questions about what has happend after jack called for rescue. A great way to keep the mystery and suspense going for another 48 epi.
Capt10,
Usually your pretty spot on with this stuff, but c’mon man… That was definatly a flash forward. The mid 90’s?? are you kidding?
Great epi. I just wish i didn’t get spoiled about the end.
Comment by Dr, Nope — May 23, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
Da time warping thing is intresting…
remember when Locke say Walt
Walt was Apperently Much older then when he left ..
Great Show
Comment by Penko — May 23, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
Will we learn more about the four toed statue when Richard Alpert and the othes reach the Temple?
Comment by a — May 23, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
I bet it was Ben’s funeral. Strange neighborhood for it, but don’t think Michael would be detested so much.
Comment by Brian — May 23, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
The funeral was for someone named “J???? ??anthem”, who was found dead at 4am in Grand Avenue. Period. It’s very clear. We don’t know that person yet.
——————————-
“Duality”, yin/yang, have been an overarching idea throughout the series. Seasons 1 through 3 had a theme of “fate”. Flashbacks showed a life in which they were destined to end up on the island. I think seasons 4 through 6 will have a theme of free will and the mutability of the future… nothing is set in stone.
It started with Charlie, who thought it was his fate to drown. We know better… he didn’t have to drown. By the end of the episode, we saw Jack and Kate living miserable lives, wishing they had never left the island.
Flashbacks are a thing of the past, I think. We will now get flashforwards, which move back in time. In the S4 premier, we will learn who died, and the circumstances leading up to his death will be revealed as S4 progresses. I think we will see the losties resuced from the island LONG before the show ends. The flashforwards will move backward through time, will show the rescue, and will keep moving back as the show progresses.
Here’s my bold prediction: I think the ultimate season 6 finale will portray events long before the rescue… at that point, we will be aware of some ultimate decision which results in their getting off the island (tonights sat phone call was just the first of many). By that time, we will be hoping that they DON’T leave the island, because we will know their bleak future. We will be hoping that they make the “right” decision, the one which results in them remaining on the island. That will be the dramatic finale to the entire series.
I think we will
Comment by DaveS — May 23, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
jack’s phone seems to be a motorola k1 (a 2006 model) and maybe the name on the newspaper doesn’t give away that much because some of the survivors had to change their name in order to come back to the real world, such as kate.
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Comment by international pharmacy — May 23, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
I guess I’m trying to wrap my mind around Rousseau (Sp?) having Alex on the island. Did she and Ben meet off the island and conceive, or was she impregnated on the island? Or, maybe she was pregnant before the island, and Ben is not the father (most likely scenario)?
Comment by Sam — May 23, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
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Comment by international pharmacy — May 23, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
Someone told me a few days ago that there was a rumor that the flashbacks would actually be flash-forwards, but actually, even without their telling me, I spent the episode thinking/knowing they were in the future, because at the beginning, when Jack said “Hey” on the phone, I thought he said “Kate” — so I wasn’t surprised at the end. It was only later when I watched the beginning again that I realized he’d said “hey” rather than “Kate.” But beyond that, with that beard, plus all the stuff about him being a hero twice over, wasn’t it obvious that this was a flash-forward? I also don’t quite see how this is a game-changer: I mean, they’re not off the island yet — what if there’s some truth to what Ben said about everyone dying? It just seems like there’s a mountain of stuff that still has to occur and get answered on the island.
Also, was anyone else surprised at how few of the spoilers have come true? Wasn’t Charlie’s fate supposed to be decided in #2-21? What about the Claire-Charlie-Desmond love triangle that was supposed to be in Charlie’s head? Weren’t three of the Losties supposed to die, not just one? Didn’t the producers say the flashback would tell us something about what’s been motivating Jack? I wonder if there was just a whole lot of misdirection?
Comment by Brendan McGrath — May 23, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
i think the “lie” that jack was referring to when he spoke to kate is that they arent telling anyone about the time on the island. that also explains why oceanic would give them golden passes, it is all one big coverup. why else would no one mention that jack was stuck on an island when talking to the chief of surgery, or being written about in the paper or talked about on the news….no one mentions that he was also a survivor of the crash….because no one knows about it!
Comment by mbloom — May 23, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
my bet is on ben, it makes most since seeing as kate didnt want to go to the funeral; u know kate would want to go to sawyers funeral.
Comment by Bronson — May 23, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
I love this show. Here are some thoughts~
Why wouldn’t Michael get them some help somehow?
If people truly thought they were dead, wouldn’t his sudden appearance cause some uproar?
Why would the dirty others be impressed with Ben the Weasle — because he killed his father? Why would non aging Richard allow him to lead their group?
Why does Dharma keep dropping off the food if their people are dead?
Immortals on the island: Patchy, Richard, Locke, Desmond? Rose? Charlie?
Why would Desmond’s “power” be so centered around Charlie’s fate? If charlie is truly dead, what use is Desmond now? Is he an immortal/time guardian in the making?
Dead End plot lines that went nowhere (so far)
~the tailsection
~Eko’s church
~Dharma
~Libby
I don’t think focusing on the future (filming in LA )would be so great for Lost. It would reduce the show to six degrees/Pam Ewing dream sequence/the nine. That would be shark jumping time for sure.
Comment by suznotsuzy — May 23, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Just because we see that they were rescued doesn’t mean we know HOW they were rescued exactly. It may not be right after the radio tower thing. It could be events that started there and don’t culminate for two more seasons.
Basing the show in present day (or future) with the characters off the island still maintains the mystery of what the island is/how they left.
Every week, we might encounter a different Lostie in L.A. as Jack travels to get his shit back together. Like Bruce Banner!
Comment by andy — May 23, 2007 @ 10:37 pm
Reading through, I think there are two things that people are confused about but probably shouldn’t be:
1.) Jack’s Dad. Christian is dead. Jack is lying about prescriptions and decides to use his dad’s name quickly to cover it up. Thus, why he freaks out when she says she can call him. Also, after he says “invite my dad down and see which is drunker”, the other doctor gives him a coy look and Jack responds “don’t give me that look!” He’s obviously still living in the past, trying to justify his own drinking by bringing up his dead, alcoholic father.
2.) Something happens on the island to stop the majority from being rescued. Something big. That’s what he’s lying about in present day, the same way in the flashback he was only a hero by lying about why he was there. Either Ben, or more likely Naomi, are up to something, and that’s why Jack feels guilt over being a hero and why he says he needs to go back. He needs to go back to save the other people, since only him, Kate, and maybe a few others were allowed back in. The rest of the series will deal with revealing this and cuts between Jack in realtime and Island realtime trying to rescue them. He’ll meet up with Penny, Michael, etc. while things are run by Naomi on the island.
Comment by benjaminjames — May 23, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Reading through, I think there are two things that people are confused about but probably shouldn’t be:
1.) Jack’s Dad. Christian is dead. Jack is lying about prescriptions and decides to use his dad’s name quickly to cover it up. Thus, why he freaks out when she says she can call him. Also, after he says “invite my dad down and see which is drunker”, the other doctor gives him a coy look and Jack responds “don’t give me that look!” He’s obviously still living in the past, trying to justify his own drinking by bringing up his dead, alcoholic father.
2.) Something happens on the island to stop the majority from being rescued. Something big. That’s what he’s lying about in present day, the same way in the flashback he was only a hero by lying about why he was there. Either Ben, or more likely Naomi, are up to something, and that’s why Jack feels guilt over being a hero and why he says he needs to go back. He needs to go back to save the other people, since only him, Kate, and maybe a few others were allowed back in. The rest of the series will deal with revealing this and cuts between Jack in realtime and Island realtime trying to rescue them. He’ll meet up with Penny, Michael, etc. while things are run by Naomi on the island.
Comment by benjaminjames — May 23, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Reading through, I think there are two things that people are confused about but probably shouldn’t be:
1.) Jack’s Dad. Christian is dead. Jack is lying about prescriptions and decides to use his dad’s name quickly to cover it up. Thus, why he freaks out when she says she can call him. Also, after he says “invite my dad down and see which is drunker”, the other doctor gives him a coy look and Jack responds “don’t give me that look!” He’s obviously still living in the past, trying to justify his own drinking by bringing up his dead, alcoholic father.
2.) Something happens on the island to stop the majority from being rescued. Something big. That’s what he’s lying about in present day, the same way in the flashback he was only a hero by lying about why he was there. Either Ben, or more likely Naomi, are up to something, and that’s why Jack feels guilt over being a hero and why he says he needs to go back. He needs to go back to save the other people, since only him, Kate, and maybe a few others were allowed back in. The rest of the series will deal with revealing this and cuts between Jack in realtime and Island realtime trying to rescue them. He’ll meet up with Penny, Michael, etc. while things are run by Naomi on the island.
Comment by benjaminjames — May 23, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
whoa, sorry that went through 3 times on accident.
Comment by benjaminjames — May 23, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
The clue about 815 - was it the fact that the Others were building a runway? Hmmmmmm……..
Comment by Courtney — May 23, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
It’s certainly possible that Christian Shepard is still alive.
Remember the empty coffin that was supposed to contain his body on the flight that Jack found early in Season 1…..it was empty. Jack assumed that the airline didn’t actually ship his body back……
We have seen “appearances” by Christian on the island. Perhaps he truly did die in Sydney but was “resurrected” on the island. This might explain why he’s referred to in the Flash-Forwards as being still alive (surely the producers made that so clear for a reason).
Comment by CL — May 23, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
So you think the “Others” were building a runway for Oceanic? sorry, i missed the first few minutes of the show.
Comment by LiLi — May 23, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
Could the people jack saved on the bridge be juliet’s sister and kid?
the kid is about the right age for a few years in the future.
thoughts?
Comment by ian — May 23, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
“This might explain why he’s referred to in the Flash-Forwards as being still alive (surely the producers made that so clear for a reason).”
The only reason they made it that clear was so that we wouldn’t think we were seeing something in the future. From the very start I had the feeling that that’s the only thing they could do to really change the series (which everyone said they would) so I paid particular attention to any mention of things pre-Island.
I mean, Christian was the ONLY thing in the episode to mislead you into thinking it was the past. Nothing else matches up. The plot of the “flashbacks” wasn’t really a plot but just little vignettes. I think they made it so obvious about his dad because he’s clearly not alive and it was a way to ground it for the audience until the big reveal. Think about it, if his dad was really alive, why not just show him and mislead the audience even further into thinking for sure that we aren’t visiting the future before the big reveal? His dad being a live is hardly jaw-dropping, so why not use it to play up this surprise even more?
Comment by benjaminjames — May 23, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
guy in the coffin HAD to be ben. That’s all I gotta say.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
Yes Dr. Nope, big oversite on my part (the phone). The song was probably there to throw us off, but I think Christian is alive. A perscription is one thing, but telling the chief surgeon to bring his father down is another. Either space and time is way out of whack (making Jack a nut case) or Christian lives…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
Absolutely, Ben was in the coffin. No doubt.
Comment by Ken — May 23, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
Some further thoughts….
Concerning the ‘flash-fowards’ ->
Maybe what we will be seeing from here on in is present day, post-rescue storylines. The scenes on the island will serve as the falshbacks, and detail more of the how their final time on the island unfolded. They can also give answers to questions that may arise in the present-day storylines.
Concerning the fact that their bodies and wreckage were supposedly recovered ->
Perhaps some powerful person/organization was able to get Oceanic to cover up the true details off the crash, and create the false story of the bodies being found dead and wreckage out to sea. Or maybe Oceanic has some larger role in this (didn’t we see a flight attendant hangout out by the cages in the earlier episodes this season?). In either case, this would explain why Jack was sick of ‘lying’ (about the true nature of the crash). Those that made it back home could come up with some cover story of their own to explain their absence (and maybe how they survived, or never boarded the plane in the first place). Also, this would help explain how Kate is seemingly able to roam about freely… it is possible she is assumed dead in the crash and has taken on a new identity. This person/organization could have assisted all of them with those details, and the Oceanic golden ticket was just another perk for them to keep their mouth shut.
As for Jack’s dad being referrenced in a way that suggests he may still be alive… we have seen/heard him on the island a few times. There is alot more story to be told on the island for sure… we might find out that he was resurrected by the island… I know that’s stretching it really far, but again, there’s still much more story to be told… and perhaps he makes it back to the US, alive, with his son.
Comment by Gadget27 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
the song is nirvana’s,helloooo
Comment by panos — May 23, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
This finale left me BREATHLESS! I knew Charlie would die, right after we found out that Sayid, Bernard, and Jin had survived. Something horrible always happens after the good.
I’ve been reading some of the comments here, and I’ve noticed some people saying that the person in the coffin may have been Ben. But even if he was, why would Jack be so upset?
Comment by Wolfie — May 23, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
Benjaminjames, I carefully avoided spoilers for the last two weeks and did not see that coming at all. You admittedly knew the big spoiler, so your mind was working completely different from those of us who were not spoiled. I made an analogy before tonight about wanting LOST to smack me square in the face and it did (with a 3 stooges eye poke for good measure)…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
If the name is really Jeremy Bentham on the newspaper, then that makes 3 characters who are named after philosophers, along with Locke and Rousseau.
Comment by cult_classic — May 23, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
Wolfie, I’ve been pondering who Jack could be so upset about that all hope was LOST. Ben would be the logical choice here, as he may have been Jack’s only chance at returning to the island. I can’t even think of anyone else. The only other explanation is that it is a story line that we have not quite gotten into yet…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
btw the little kid in hospital is like eathan in baby version…
Comment by panos — May 23, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
I have no idea why you all think Ben would be in the coffin, if it’s anyone from the show so far it would be Michael, why would Michael be popular?
I am betting it would be Jeremy Bentham, and don’t forget Desmond Hume and Mikhael Bakunin (patchy) are other philosophers. Jeremy Bentham was the originator of the theory of utilitarianism, and then in a very unutilitarian fashion he requested that after his death he be stuffed and kept present at board meetings. This is a paradox of the sort they love, as Jeff Jensen talks about on EW other than Patchy everyone is close to the opposite of their templates.
I will say this: Ben wanted them to make the call and get off the island. Otherwise he would have given Jack at least one actual reason not to make the call. He wanted Jack to think he wanted to stop him.
Comment by zango — May 23, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
Honestly, I think the Losties in US/Korea/Australia will be boring. The escapism of the island is the draw.
The irony of this episode is that Jack mirrors the addiction that he hated in his father. Yet perhaps it is the same desire to save others that brought it out in both of them.
Kate is obviously free - meeting Jack at their usual place by the aiport. Because she is free she has obviously been pardoned or arranged a deal or perhaps her past was wiped out/never existed.
When I first saw this and was thinking that it was a flashback (which I think is what they wanted people to think with Jack dropping his father’s name all the time. I also thought he saw Sara’s wedding or birth announcement and that he was crying over her as in the past.) when I saw Jack and Kate I thought to myself, Wow that is the ultimate con — they knew each other. Then I realized, oh it’s the future - they are not together. That was a disappointment for me.
Part of the big pull of the show and even the producers pointed it out was who would Kate choose? Well they showed us that it wasn’t Jack. I think that is why Jack is so miserable. They showed him telling her he loved her.
Comment by suznotsuzy — May 23, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
Sorry cap10, Jack’s dad, dead or not, is still on the island. That whole thing with Jack in the pharmacy was just him lying to the woman behind the desk. That’s why he bailed when she said that she was actually going to call him. And the bit where he tells the doctor to call in his dad to see who’s drunker was just Jack being out of his mind with grief and Oxies. They don’t call that shit Housewife Heroin for no reason
The ONLY thing about this ep that sucked for me was the totally boneheaded way that charlie died.
I’m sorry, but before I put in that code, I’d have already been fully hooked up with a scuba tank, and If I wasn’t, as soon as I saw Mikhail waving a grenade around, I’d have shot him the finger and ran out the door.
And if THAT hadnt worked, id have taken a deep breath swum through the huge fucking grenade hole that was allowing water to seep into my self imposed tomb.
Crap like that just totally ejects me from the drama and reality of any scene, fantasy fictional or not.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
IT MAKES PERFECT FUCKING SENSE
Much like Desmond, both Kate and Jack were both able to eventually find a way off the island: And like Desmond, the two of them ended up in the past.
Remember the Anagram: LOST TIME!!
Recall season 1: Where Jack discovered the caves and the presence of two, aged dried corpses? It would make perfect sense for that “Adam and Eve” (as Locked phrsaed it) to be Jack and Kate– they did eventually find a way back to the island– but not to the right time.
Remember the pouch with the twin stones: One white, one black? Well, it is also all together likely that Jack kept the stone through seasons 1, 2, and 3 only to bring it back in the very end. A TIME LOOP.
Comment by James J. — May 23, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Kate could have been referring to “him” meaning her son, not necessarily her husband or boyfriend. It was late at night and her son would be wondering where she went.
Comment by sara — May 23, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
wow! great episode! i was screaming at my tv the whole time! a couple of observations:
1) luved how sayid snapped the dude’s neck with his legs.
2) luved how hurley ran over the one guy with the van & saved the day!
3) i like the idea that the flashforwards were either a) possible future or b)when kate & jack got back to the real world they got put in an altenate timeline & now their lives are totally diferent.
4) i thought radzinsky (or however u say his name) was dead.
5) so glad rose is back for her great lines & makin bernard say “i’m a dentist, not rambo man”. hehe. that craked me up.
6) they didn’t make us wait till next year to tell us that locke was still alive! and walt!
Comment by dixierose — May 23, 2007 @ 11:24 pm
according to juliet - I thought there were four people holding jin, sayid and bernard at gun point. But did we only see three of them killed, or did I miss one of them dying??
Hurly runs over one
sayid breaks another one’s neck
And Sawyer kills Tom…
What happend to the Fourth person
Comment by anon — May 23, 2007 @ 11:24 pm
Sorry cap10, Jack’s dad, dead or not, is still on the island. That whole thing with Jack in the pharmacy was just him lying to the woman behind the desk. That’s why he bailed when she said that she was actually going to call him. And the bit where he tells the doctor to call in his dad to see who’s drunker was just Jack being out of his mind with grief and Oxies. They don’t call that shit Housewife Heroin for no reason
The ONLY thing about this ep that sucked for me was the totally boneheaded way that charlie died.
I’m sorry, but before I put in that code, I’d have already been fully hooked up with a scuba tank, and If I wasn’t, as soon as I saw Mikhail waving a grenade around, I’d have shot him the finger and ran out the door.
And if THAT hadnt worked, id have taken a deep breath swum through the huge fucking grenade hole that was allowing water to seep into my self imposed tomb.
Crap like that just totally ejects me from the drama and reality of any scene, fantasy fictional or not
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:26 pm
cap10:
That makes more sense to me now, thanks!
Comment by Wolfie — May 23, 2007 @ 11:26 pm
ack double post, my bad
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
I THINK JACK IS LYING ABOUT HIS FATHER BEING DEAD. IF YOU REMEMBER - CHRISTIAN DIED IN AUSTRAILIA AND JACK WAS THE ONE WHO CAME IN TO ID HIM - JACK THEN LEFT TO TAKE HIS BODY HOME - THEN THE PLANE CRASHED WITH HIS BODY. SO I THINK WHEN HE GOT RESCUED, HE LIED ABOUT HSI DAD BEING DEAD AND IS USING CHRISTIAN’S NAME TO WRITE PRESCRIPTIONS - AND JACK’S SAYING HIS DAD IS “OUT OF TOWN.” ISN’T IT REALLY ODD THAT THERE ARE 3 PHILOSOPHERS ON THE SHOW!! JEREMY BENTHAM, LOCKE, ROUSSEAU!
Comment by kd — May 23, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
Excellent episode. Nice season ender. It’ll leave us gasping and begging for more.
One thing that was quirky with me, however.
Juliette joins Sawyer to take him to a cache of guns several miles from where they were (when they broke from the main group). When they get to the beach, though, they make several comments of the ‘Others’ being armed and themselves being unarmed. Did she forget to take him to the guns first?!
Yeah, I know, minor point.
Anyway, excellent episode for an amazing show. I am looking forward to Feb 2008!!
Comment by Sean — May 23, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
Does anyone else find it remarkable that Jack met up with Kate in this supposed future-flashback, and not Juliette? Personally, I hate all the speculation people do when 9 times out of 10 it all ends up being proven wrong a few episodes later, but I really found it interesting that Kate and Jack met up at the airport, and not Jack and Juliette. I’m not going to speculate anything in statement, just that I found it really odd that it was Kate. It didn’t even have to be Juliette instead of Kate, it’s just strange that it was Kate.
Also, in regards to some of the conjections that some people have made, I think it’s really interesting to think that some of the Losties got Left Behind. That would definitely help explain why Jack turned into a drunk. GREAT FUGGIN SHOW CARLTON AND CO! You’ve definitely got me stoked for next season!
Comment by dylan — May 23, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Juliet told Sawyer there were no guns on the way back to the beach and that she was going because of Karma.
Comment by Mossy — May 23, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Is it possible that the island is stuck in time or timeless (a nexus between alternate planes)? We may see a hint with Richard’s non-aging. Perhaps Kate and Jack are in the present but if they could go back to the island they would be right back at episode 1. They keep going back (orchestrated by Mittelos) to try and get it right. I also believe that Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
Sean, theres a scene between Juliet and Sawyer before they get to the beach where she tells him that she was lying about the guns because she felt that it was the only way Jack would let them leave.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
I believe the future shown is what initially happened from making the phone call, but as we know there are time travelers(or just alternate time line travelers) such as Desmond and the old woman he met. John Locke will be the key to fixing the mistakes and leading the Island to a better destiny for everyone.
Comment by Mossy — May 23, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
I’m not even gonna speculate on the whole Lost Time/adam and eve thing cap10. That’s just a futile endeavor because you know the writers are gonna do something that will totally beat you in the head lol
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
uh, the comment below mentions naomi running the island. isn’t that sort of hard when she has a knife locke threw stuck in her back?
Comment by enoch — May 23, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
alot of stuff happened in this finale and as usual with no answers. this “show’s” idea of explaining the OTHERS is saying they were natives that gased the Dharma Initiative and suprisingly had a multi-billion dollar company that attracted juliet and other scientists to join? naturally there is some absurd scenario to tie this all together (i.e. the natives took over the entire company then the world with their “big-bad corporation”; Mychael did say: “I thought you were in Berlin” to those good-as-shot/drowned ladies).
Either way, if they are off the island and the writers want to pull some “Alias” stuff on us, because there are no new ideas OR explanations for the giant-tree-lifting-black dust bunny, they can be my guest.
Comment by vegasfan — May 23, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
The glimpse into the future is all very interesting, but why is no one talking about the *actual* cliffhanger:
Who is on the freighter?
I think people are too ready to link the fact that they establish contact with Naomi’s people with the revelation that Jack and Kate will eventually get off the island. Admittedly, the structure of the episode manipulates us into making that connection, but I very much doubt it’s going to be as simple as that.
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 23, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
Just realized Naomi has been telling them they were found dead but maybe the people she actually works just covered it up and gave her that story to keep the survivors confused. Most likely Penny’s father wants the power of the island or maybe Hanso and the phone call has made it possible and it happens in the timeline we were shown in the future but events on the Island will change that timeline. I don’t know many ideas flying through my head I just gotta post them all.
Comment by Mossy — May 23, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
Zer00, I’ve never wanted a beating so bad in my life (well there was that girl in Amsterdam)…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 23, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
Agreed, Clovis.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
Anyone think the lady and child in the car accident were Claire and Aaron?
Comment by Jindianajonz — May 23, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
@Sean:
Bro, you need to learn to pay attention. If you had actually watched the episode, you would know that Juliette plainly stated there were no guns, and that the only reason she said there were guns nearby, was so that Jack would “let” them leave and go back to the beach.
Learn2watchTV.
Comment by dylan — May 23, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Honestly, I don’t think I can stand to watch next season in 1 hour segments. I’m gonna wait for dvd, which is going to be BRUTAL.
How disgustingly rad would it be if somehow Lost came back in a 2 hour format? Barring all the commercials, does anyone else agree that 2 hours is the PERFECT amount of lost to watch in one sitting?
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
Jindiana bro, thats a fucking amazing question.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
Why does everyone say flash-FOWARD?! It’s so bloody obvious that Looking Glass involved a flash-BACK?! How can the majority of Lost watchers be so STUPID?
Most of us who frequent this site are more informed and more thoughtful than typical Lost watchers. Don’t you guys thing that it’s obviously a flash-BACK and not a flash-FOWARD?!
Comment by James J — May 23, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
Jack’s flashback did totally show us his motivation on the island because the future we saw is not the result of the Island we have been seeing. That is a result of the worst case timeline of what happened on the Island but we will see how the future changes from the events that happen differently. His motivation on the island will be the horrible future he has lived after leaving the Island.
Comment by Mossy — May 23, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
If this is really how it all ends, then this is going to be a real bummer of a next few years.
Guess what? They get off the island! But it’s a downer! Woo! (We have _this_ to look forward to?)
(My wife likens it to the Newhart or St. Elsewhere or Dallas endings.)
I predicted early on that these were flash-forwards we were seeing, but I hope it doesn’t go in that direction. Or worse yet, they get off the island and we have to spend the next few years (if it doesn’t get canceled) watching warmed over “The Nine”-type story-lines.
Comment by James — May 23, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
OMG, WHAT A GREAT FINALE!!!!
If that isnt an amazing cliffhanger I dont know what is.
All I have to say, because I hate the retarded speculations you idiots make (much like dylan said), is that the absolute BEST SCENE OF THE SEASON was when Jack told Tom, “I’m going to get my people off this island, and them I’m going to find you, and I’m going to kill you.”
If LOST were not on syndicated television, that line would have been ended with, “you motherfucker.”
GOD!!!! GREAT SHOW CARLTON!!!!
Comment by lollercopters — May 23, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
James, what show were you watching? All those “flashes” took place either after Jack and Kate got off the island, or took place in some wierd tangental reality, where Jack and Kate had STILL already gotten off the island, which would be more of a “flash-diagonal”
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:54 pm
Jimmyzer00. Remember why Charlie actually went down to the station? He was acting with the belief that his death would cause Clair and Aarons rescue, that is why Charlie made no attempt to escape.
Comment by Necrotism — May 23, 2007 @ 11:54 pm
my above post was to James J, not the James who posted after him.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
i’m going with the alternate reality theory.
in the reality they’re rescued in jack’s dad is alive, kate isn’t a fugitive, etc. the losties from this future reality really did die on oceanic 815. the true original losties are basically taking the place of their alternate reality selves.
the alternate reality world has no idea, only the losties know the truth. that’s what jack meant when he said he was tired of lying. jack wants to go back because he did everything he could to get back to his own life, and now he’s stuck living someone else’s.
i’m sure you can poke hole after hole in this, but right now it seems just as plausible as any other idea.
it makes sense kate doesn’t want to go back since she doesn’t seem to be headed to prison for murder in this reality. i mean, if this is where they’re headed it could mean many of the flashbacks we’ve seen before might not have even occurred in this reality. when kate said “he” would wonder where she was she could have meant anyone … the doctor she was in love with as a kid, the cop she was married to, or someone we’ve never met before. i doubt she meant sawyer b/c she probably would have said his name.
Comment by peachy — May 23, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
Necro, yeah, but its been established that des has changed the future by warning charlie before. and If you honestly believe that her being rescured hinged solely on charlie dying, and not the jamming being shut down, then whatever.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
Youre right peachy, I could poke about a million holes in that. Nice try though.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 23, 2007 @ 11:58 pm
If Ben was right Naomi was hired by Penelope’s father. Maybe Penelope found out what her father is trying to do and is working against him.
Comment by theisland — May 23, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
Hi,
I had to tape the show because I was at work but unfortunatly I put a 2 hour tape in and the last bit got cut off.
My video shut off when Jack and Kate meet up (in the future) and Jack shows Kate the paper of the dead guy.
Can someone tell me what happens after that? I know it’s not much left but I’m dying to know.
Comment by Bogdan — May 24, 2007 @ 12:02 am
Jimmyzer00. I don’t believe it but Charlie obviously did.
Comment by Necrotism — May 24, 2007 @ 12:02 am
What’s the difference between flash-forwards and flash-backs? If you can flash back for insight into the story, why not also flash forward? They all give us insights to the story being told. I think it was Cuse who said (very loosely paraphrasing) that this is a mosaic–past, present and future–which we don’t have all the pieces of yet, but by the end of the show we’ll have a completed jigsaw puzzle.
I thought that the finale was fantastic (certainly the best of the season finales thus far), even though I was almost totally spoiled by cretins in comment sections. The cretins didn’t spoil everything.
Comment by Lance — May 24, 2007 @ 12:03 am
I feel you on that, theisland. My thoughts on that were always that Penelope’s dad must have died in the 3 years since Des vanished, leaving her in control of her dads company/assets. Otherwise, without inheiretance, it’s pretty unlikely she would have the cash to fund her little arctic research station, let alone do it without her dad knowing.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 24, 2007 @ 12:04 am
very good episode but the so called game changer came no where near living up to the hype it never blow my mind away i never thought it was a crazy idea that only insane people would come up with.
Also they promise us a big Jack secret they have been holding back for a very long time where was it??????
Comment by steve — May 24, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Darlton also said we would understand why there cant be more than 48 episodes left i still dont understand why there cant be more than 48 episodes
Comment by steve — May 24, 2007 @ 12:05 am
I have never been more angry at any two people than I am at Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse right now. I have never considered not watching Lost until tonight and this episode’s lack of answers and the major and possibly unnecessary twist has caused me to majorly consider not watching it anymore.
Comment by Garrett — May 24, 2007 @ 12:06 am
Wow, then Charlie is now so noble that his nobility even surpasses common sense(yeah i know we’re talking about visions here) and basic human survival instinct
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 24, 2007 @ 12:06 am
I don
Comment by season3finalerules — May 24, 2007 @ 12:07 am
This is really only speculation, but I think a good one. Jack is tired of lying because he can’t tell anyone about the island or anything that happened on it. Seems like whoever “rescued” everyone is keeping close tabs on them. Jack wants to get back to the island because he knows the corporation is on the island, and using it for their own plans. Why would the airline give the passengers golden tickets. Who in the world would fly on the same airline that they crashed on before?
Comment by theisland — May 24, 2007 @ 12:07 am
i think its a flashback.. not flash forward.. the plane jack flies in is an ‘Oceanic Airlines’ plane.. but hadrnt they they ceased all operations and the company ‘Closed there doors’
maybe jack and kate knew eachother…
Comment by chris — May 24, 2007 @ 12:07 am
I realized last week that Lost was going to pivot from flashbacks to flashforwards … they did a fine job of that tonight… Flashforwards
About Jack’s father being alive: I think Jack was just using his father’s name to get the drugs. He back off pretty quickly about his father …
Comment by Paul Levinson — May 24, 2007 @ 12:08 am
The secret that Jack is carrying is that he has done this before. He knows about the alternate time lines we just haven’t been shown that yet. He knows about the awful future and we will see events that make it change. Somehow Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve I believe also there is a timeloop on the island and it allows the creation of different futures for the survivors.
Comment by Mossy — May 24, 2007 @ 12:09 am
Things to note about this episode:
1. Jack’s father is dead. The image he has seen on the island of his father is likely the smoke monster (see Mr. Eko’s encounter with his “brother”) Jack may indeed be lying about his father being dead to get his prescriptions, etc. but that is likely not the case. I think that was a plot device by the writers to keep us thinking we were seeing a flashback.
2. Charlie closed the door because he saw Desmond running to the room once he realized it was Penny on the screen. Charlie knew that Desmond would likely die there if he didn’t shut the door. Also, if you notice when Mikhail releases the grenade, the porthole there was barely big enough for his face to be visible. Charlie could not have swam through that.
3. John didn’t really see Walt. That was likely a manifestation of the smoke monster trying to convince John to do what needed to be done.
4. The dead person is likely Ben. Once they were rescued, Ben probably went back to the real world and either went to prison or, most likely, a mental institution. He was likely released at some point and probably killed himself. He had no family to speak of and no friends. Jack went to the funeral because he realized that Ben was right in the end (also why he wants to go back so desperately).
5. Kate and Jack had a meeting point there at the airport. I believe that when they were all rescued, Kate was granted some kind of pardon and married Sawyer. She still met Jack there at the airport from time to time for a while. Perhaps they were carrying on an affair for a bit. Kate wants to forget about the past and the island and move on while Jack realizes that something terrible is going on with the island that may effect the rest of the world.
6. Finally, I don’t think we’ll see the Losties rescued until the very end of the series. I do believe that from here on out we’ll see flash-forwards rather than flashbacks while in real time, they are still on the island. All the pieces will come together like a puzzle in the series finale.
Just my thoughts and observations. Enjoy.
RCDynasty
Comment by RCDynasty — May 24, 2007 @ 12:09 am
ugh, wake me up when it’s February, i already can’t handle this crappy feeling
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 24, 2007 @ 12:10 am
theisland go back and watch the episode because i think your missing something very important only jack & Kate made the choice to leave the island so only jack & kate have been rescused watch the end again he says we made the wrong choice we need to go back which implies only him n kate left the island.
Comment by steve — May 24, 2007 @ 12:10 am
Not the porthole RC, the huge gaping hole that filled the room so fast.
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 24, 2007 @ 12:11 am
And instead of slamming the door, why not just tackle Des and keep him out, while also saving your own ass and changing the future the way des did with the lightning rod?
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 24, 2007 @ 12:14 am
Mossy they promised us theyed reveal a BIG SECRETE ABOUT JACK THEYEVE BEEN HOLDING BACK FOR A WHILE NOW WHERE WAS THE BIG SECRETE. He knows about the alternate time lines we just haven’t been shown that yet thays just speculation on your part. Darlton said they would reveal a big secrete about jack which they have been holding back for a while now. Where was it
Comment by steve — May 24, 2007 @ 12:15 am
My complete thoughts:
I think not everyone got off the Island… Both Ben and Locke warned Jack not to make that call, and though Jack’s been rescued in the flash-forward, he clearly is distraught about something he’s done. Every time people call him a hero he gets even more and more upset. Because he knows that the last time he tried to be a hero, on the Island when he thought he was getting everyone rescued, he ended up bringing an evil group of people onto the Island, and even though Jack and Kate made it off (with possibly a few others) he knows that he failed in trying to be the Hero and now he needs to get back to the Island to make it right.
We’ve heard rumblings for awhile that there would be a format-change for the remaining seasons, mainly because the flashbacks have become stale and it’s no longer interesting (or pertinent) to see boring things from people’s pasts.
So from now on there will be mainly flash-forwards, showing what’s happening to those that were rescued, and even possibly what’s happening to those that weren’t.
So we’d have 2 parallel timelines, on-Island present time before the rescue, dealing with whatever trouble Naomi’s people bring with them and future-time with Jack trying to get back to the Island.
At some point present-time would catch up to when Jack (and Kate) were rescued and at this point, future-time would show us Jack finally returning to the Island (probably eventually with Kate).
At this point the show would be Jack back on the Island trying to get everyone off (probably in the final season).
Now that we know that Penny is still looking for them, but that Naomi is not with them, and according to Ben, and it seems Locke, the people Naomi is with will be bad (at least for those people living on the Island). It might be a resurgent DHARMA Initiative, or another group of powerful people, but it looks like the interplay between these factions will be very important next season. I mean, if they are good people then 1st episode next season they’ll be rescued, which clearly can’t happen, so Ben must be at least partially right there.
I don’t know what Walt told Locke, but it was something. And no, I don’t know whether or not to believe that Christian Shepard is alive. I don’t know who Kate has to get back to (I can guess), and I don’t know who the funeral was for.
Comment by David — May 24, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Remember the episode when Hurley, Jin and Sawyer were trying to figure how that couple died (the episode with the diamonds)? Remember when Hurley says “It’s the monster, it’s gotta be the monster.” They were paralleling (and mocking) the fans that come up with these wild theories to explain the show.
In that episode, the explanation for the death of the couple was that they poisoned each other. The monster did not have anything to do with it, as Hurley/speculating fan hypothesized.
I don’t buy all these alternate timeline/alternate reality theories. Do you really think that’s going to explain the show? The creators and writers of Lost are a lot smarter than that. They know if they copped out like that, Lost would go down in the history of television shows as one of the biggest disappointments ever.
Stick to Occam’s razor, people–even if we are talking about Lost.
Comment by commonsense — May 24, 2007 @ 12:21 am
I really think you have to dig for answers sometimes with this show and Desmond’s time travel is the key to the alternate timeline of the Island. Jack’s big secret maybe wasn’t a big obvious statement but the signs of that future not ending up the real future have been built over 3 seasons to me. I don’t watch this show for promised answers from the creators, I watch for the twists and turns that will lead to answers in time. They give promises to piss off the fans and get them buzzing on the Internet. The creators have made a unique experience never seen on tv before. We are all just puppets to their great idea.
Comment by Mossy — May 24, 2007 @ 12:22 am
Is everyone forgetting that Locke killed Naomi? That was a huge surprise for me especially since he couldn’t kill his father who had done so many wrongs to him but he could kill a complete stranger. I think we might see Locke take a very dark turn in season 4.
Comment by Chadizzo — May 24, 2007 @ 12:25 am
Maybe I’m all wrong about Jack knowing of the future and that John Locke knows it now because of the help of Walt and most likely Jacob. John Locke will be the key to fixing the evil that is coming to the Island.
Comment by Mossy — May 24, 2007 @ 12:29 am
Oh man…wow.
I’m so confused. Yet, I do believe I have some sort of idea on where things are going…I’m most likely wrong, but ya’ never know!
I know how much of a nerd I am for posting this, but everyone should look at this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_%28TNG_episode%29
Pretty much, it involves an episode wherein the Enterprise is caught in some sort of time loop, where the same events occur over and over again, yet with somewhat different events. I think that this is where Lost is going.
It almost makes sense; the show might have been setting it up from the beginning. How did the white shoe end up in the tree, and Jack so far from the plane? Perhaps he went back to the beginning farther away from the crash “this” time to fix something bad from happening that occured before. Also, with Desmond’s flashes, perhaps he is seeing what happened “last time” he was there. The failsafe switch perhaps knocked him through time 3 or 4 times, accelerated him through the time cycle’s up until the timeline we saw this season.
It would also be a great way to show more answers about the show—having them revealed in situations that we’re familiar with, only from a different view ( Similar to the flashback in “three minutes” where we saw events we already knew from Michael’s perspective”)
This is just a rant; a very much not thought out theory…but what do you all think?
Comment by Mark — May 24, 2007 @ 12:31 am
Charlie is still alive.
Lost always shows us how and the exact moment the character stops breathing. They cut away from Charlie drowning before he completely dies. I know they cut to Aaron crying as a connection to seem like Charlie has died, but he is still going to be alive.
Comment by Jose — May 24, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Ben said for his people to go to the temple like they planned. What temple, and a temple to what person or thing?
Comment by theisland — May 24, 2007 @ 12:35 am
anyone remember how the guy at the funeral home asked if jack was a friend or family and he said neither….that just makes me think it was jacob or one of the others more and more….
Comment by PainCorp — May 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
I couldn’t agree more!
Comment by exlost07 — May 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
If it was bens funeral, why would jack be so upset he would jump off a bridge after one last look at the newspaper clipping and say out loud while standing on the bridge “Don’t leave me”. I think it was juliets funeral? I couldn’t read the clipping
Comment by John John — May 24, 2007 @ 12:46 am
NOT Juliet’s funeral. Read the clipping.
Jeremy Bentham’s funeral.
Comment by AstrosNLC — May 24, 2007 @ 12:48 am
The “Mystery Personage” from the funeral has to be BEN!
Why? Well, when the man asks Jack whether he was FAMILY or FRIEND, Jack says NEITHER.
Comment by n — May 24, 2007 @ 12:48 am
Other sites have noted that the name of the funeral parlor “Hoffs/Drawlar” is an anagram for “Flash Forward.” So no doubt it was a flash forward. Well with LOST, I guess there always could be doubt.
Comment by AndrewGettinLost — May 24, 2007 @ 12:50 am
David my take on it was the Flashbacks will become the island aka how jack and kate got off the island as the we he implyed we suggested to me they were the only 2 that got off the island.
and the main story telling would become jack trying to get back onto the island unless they do something completley diffrent and forget about it for god knows how long like they did with penny-des-and pennys guys which still hasnt been addressed
Comment by steve — May 24, 2007 @ 12:58 am
Here is what I can read from newspaper clipping. Something discovered and loud in the loft. I also see something about a discovered a run beam. Probably makes no sense yet:(
Comment by theisland — May 24, 2007 @ 1:00 am
Who has an answer for this stuff??
- the numbers on the soccer girl’s jerseys in the airport
- the Spanish comic book with a polar bear in it
- all the coincidental relationships (Libby and Hurley in the mental hospital… Jack and Claire… Sayid and the General… Kate and Sawyers ex… Sawyer and Locke’s dad…etc etc).
- speaking of Locke’s dad, how and why DID he end up on the island?
- why is the island so inescapable? Desmond was never able to get away in his boat, and Michael and Walt apparently needed special coordinates to leave
- why were the kidnapped kids and the stewardess so oblivious to their fellow survivors being in cages?
- whats the story behind the old slave ship?
- finally what’s with the black and white marbles that Jack put into his pocket and Locke made such a big deal about with Walt?
Comment by Clark — May 24, 2007 @ 1:14 am
….and one more thing:
- why and how was the shark marked with the Dharma logo??
Comment by Clark — May 24, 2007 @ 1:15 am
Regarding the funeral- People have reported seeing “J… ntham” on the obituary, and have suggested that this refers to Jeremy Bentham. Since we haven’t seen a character going by this name, it must be either a new character, or somebody assumed a new name after returning from the island, possibly trying to escape their past (Sawyer) or to disassociate themselves with the events of the island (Locke, Michael, and Ben could all feel guilty about their actions, and may have changed their name to escape publicity.) Also, the obituary said the deceased was male, so we can discount a number of people from that.
The other clues we get is that Jack considers the deceased neither friend nor family, and also nobody showed up to the funeral. While this *could* refer to one of the nameless masses of Losties that Jack wasn’t particularly close to, I doubt it. I think the most likely suspects are:
Ben - Jack obviously doesn’t like him as a person, but apparently feels that he is right. Ben would also not have anybody show up to his funeral, since he pretty much grew up on the island and killed or alienated everybody he considered a friend. Jack did say that he would kill Ben after the ship was contacted, but this was before he found out the others were alive, so he could easily have softened. He also could very likely be depressed after leaving the island, and his death could have been a suicide. He would have had to adopt a new name to fit the “J… ntham” clue.
Locke - Firstly, perhaps the “nthem” in the obituary refered to something else entirely, and the “J…” stood for John Locke. John Locke fits the bill for not having anybody attend his funeral, since he was primarily a loner in life, killed his father, and scared his wife off. After leaving the island, he would also have been depressed, thus giving suicide as a possible cause of death. He was constantly fighting with Jack, fitting the bill for being neither friend nor family.
Sawyer - Like Locke, the “J” on the paper could be for “James Ford.” He took the woman Jack was in love with, which would be a motive for Jack not claiming him as a friend. He was never particularly close to anybody outside of Kate, which would explain why nobody was at the funeral. It would also give further meaning to the reason Jack called Kate about the funeral to inquire why she didn’t go. This brings up the question of why Kate didn’t attend, and also who the “he” is that Kate was talking about.
Michael - Probably the least likely of the four. He wouldn’t be considered a “friend” after he betrayed Jack and the others, and the funeral was in a black neighborhood, but thats about it. He *may* want to change his name to escape association with the island, and the guilt of killing Anna Lucia, but it is hard to account for the fact that nobody showed up for his funeral, since Walt would certainly be there.
Comment by Jindianajonz — May 24, 2007 @ 1:18 am
how did pinelope get the phone number for the pearl?
Comment by john john — May 24, 2007 @ 1:20 am
What was all that “Richard, go to the temple” talk?
Comment by WeHaveToGoBack — May 24, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Jack said out loud “don’t leave me” just before he was going to jump. What or who was he talking about?
Comment by john john — May 24, 2007 @ 1:25 am
There has to be something to a meteor hitting Hurley’s chicken shack. Maybe something about the world coming to and end so Jacob brought them to the island.
Comment by theisland — May 24, 2007 @ 1:31 am
If the equipment was waterproof like Bonnie said, then why should Charlie shut the door? And if Penny didn’t send Naiomi, who did with the picture of Penny and Des? Sounds like that boat is Charles Widemore’s to me.
Comment by noclevername — May 24, 2007 @ 1:33 am
I thought Oceanic went out of business after the 318 crash disaster??? Isn’t that what the game said, or the official website said???
Comment by Zyzzy — May 24, 2007 @ 1:44 am
ANOTHER POINT TO MENTION:
That was Eko that they showed breifly when Jack parked his car!!!
Comment by Zyzzy — May 24, 2007 @ 1:46 am
1 more BIG point to mention:
Why is Jack suddenly a celebrity just because of the car accident rescue. Wouldn’t Jack already be a celebrity from being rescued???? The whole rescued crews would be getting talk show guest spots and book deals!!
check my link for music that messes with your head as bad as lost does!
Comment by Zyzzy — May 24, 2007 @ 2:12 am
suznotsuzy wrote:
“Dead End plot lines that went nowhere (so far)
~the tailsection
~Eko’s church
~Dharma
~Libby”
Oh, come on, the tailsection plotline? What else could they have possibly done with that? Some people survived, they joined the fuselage survivors, most of them died. Story over.
-Eko’s church has been seen in the background several times, so maybe it’s not all over yet. Even so it wasn’t really a plotline, but a motivation for his character.
-Dharma’s story is far from over, so you can’t say that’s a dead plotline. In fact it’s only really started.
-Libby will be back for some more appearances.
And I’m fairly certain the person in the coffin was someone we have not seen yet. Possibly he will appear in season 4 as a new character, maybe from Naomi’s freighter…or whatever.
“That was Eko that they showed breifly when Jack parked his car!!!”
Eko is off the show, his character is dead, the actor’s contract is over and he is not in Hawaii. Has not been there for a while. Not Eko.
“If the equipment was waterproof like Bonnie said, then why should Charlie shut the door?”
HE did not close the door because of the equipment, but because of Desmond, with the window broken, the station would depressurise and Des would have possibly drowned, too.
“What was all that “Richard, go to the temple” talk?”
Obvious foreshadowing. We have been seeing ruins of an ancient advanced culture on the island for a while now. Also, when the Others leave the village, Ben says “we are going to an old place. It couldn’t have been clearer. But I hoped we would see these ruins this season…
“Jack said out loud “don’t leave me” just before he was going to jump. What or who was he talking about?”
He said Forgive me. Because he was about to commit suicide, obviously…duh.
“Who has an answer for this stuff??
- the numbers on the soccer girl’s jerseys in the airport
- the Spanish comic book with a polar bear in it
- all the coincidental relationships (Libby and Hurley in the mental hospital… Jack and Claire… Sayid and the General… Kate and Sawyers ex… Sawyer and Locke’s dad…etc etc).
- speaking of Locke’s dad, how and why DID he end up on the island?
- why is the island so inescapable? Desmond was never able to get away in his boat, and Michael and Walt apparently needed special coordinates to leave
- why were the kidnapped kids and the stewardess so oblivious to their fellow survivors being in cages?
- whats the story behind the old slave ship?
- finally what’s with the black and white marbles that Jack put into his pocket and Locke made such a big deal about with Walt?
- why and how was the shark marked with the Dharma logo??”
-Oh come on, that was goddamn obvious. The numbers were popping up randomly in Hurley’s life since he played the lotery, that was just an easter egg/injoke.
-What answers does the comic book need? It was Hurley’s, Walt picked it up. It was an old Green lantern comic and the Polar bear was just another alusion to the real ones , nothing more.
-It’s because coincidence and fate is a big theme on the show. All the cross relationships give the impression these people were destined to end together. That’s all.
-Locke’s dad was probably kidnaped by the others after his incident. Either that or we will get another explanation next season.
-Because a) the radio signals have been jammed b) the island is covered by geologicaly unique electromagnetism
This makes it virtualy invisible to the outside, but it also screws with electronic equipment and compasses in planes, ships, etc.
- Because they believed the Others were the good guys and they themselves have been taken into the society…
- It was explained partialy in the lost experience but we will probably get more. It was the ship of Alvar Hanso’s great great father or something like that.
- The “marbles” Locke displayed to Walt were not the same. Those were Backgammon game tokens.
The stones obviously rapresent a black-white symbolism and the eternal strugle between two forces order-chaos, good-evil, man-nature, etc. Two stones such as those found in the caves are used for divination in Jewish tradition. A person asks a question and pulls a random stone out of a pouch. White is for yes, black for no.
- Dharma did tests on animals, such as polar bears. The Hydra had a special room where they could operate on sharks and other marine animals. Obviously they brandished them, as scientist tag the animals they observe, so they know which one is which.
Ah…
Comment by Roger G — May 24, 2007 @ 2:38 am
Why is Jack suddenly a celebrity just because of the car accident rescue…
The other doctor actualy calls him a hero “twice-over”.
So yeah, he is already a hero for being a 815 survivor, just that people mostly forgot about that at the point of the future this story is taking place in.
Comment by greg — May 24, 2007 @ 2:41 am
“Hero, twice over” could simply be because he saved two people from the car. DUH!
Comment by Duh — May 24, 2007 @ 3:17 am
Jeremy Bentham — I’m surprised no one has surmised that Ben could be short for Bentham or that it is the name Ben takes when he gets off the island..
Comment by Duh — May 24, 2007 @ 3:19 am
~THEORY~
While jacks in the transition from being on the plane to crashing on the island, something tells me he had that dream of him and kate off the island and that they must “go back”, this makes me think that that dream has motivated jack and this is why he is so hungry for leadership on the island, i’m trying to relate it around the time change/effect theory which was similar to desmonds storyline.
Comment by Bromage — May 24, 2007 @ 3:20 am
I think they just revealed where the Island is. Jack made a point of telling Kate that he had been flying Los Angeles and three other places; Tokyo, Singapore and Sydney. Wouldn’t it be logical if the Island lies where those traveling routes intersect or something? Someone with a map and a steady hand could draw some lines and tell us the result. Just a thought.
Comment by thelastfreeman — May 24, 2007 @ 3:27 am
Comments Carlton made about the next season in “The Answers” show that preceded the finale make me think that we are definitely going to spend the next 3 seasons seeing some post-island. He said we see how what happened in the past to the characters affects how they act on the island and will begin now to see where that is taking them.
Comment by DT — May 24, 2007 @ 3:31 am
By the way, hi, first-time poster here, though I have been silently reading for some months.
Comment by thelastfreeman — May 24, 2007 @ 3:33 am
First off, Hurley with the van was kickass and Sayid breaking that guys neck with his feet - Outstanding!
Are we sure Jack said “Don’t leave me”? It sounded to me like he said “god help me”. I don’t think his flash forward is concrete or that Christian is alive. Oceanic is owned and operated by the same Widmore or Mittleos and when Jack and Kate get off there is a cover up. I think Kate’s “he” is someone bad she’s has to be with in some sort of trade off.
Comment by do_or_dharma — May 24, 2007 @ 3:50 am
Definitely the best scene: Hurley driving to the rescue and the look the other hostages and sawyer give each other after Sayid breaks the guy’s neck with his legs.
Sayid rocks my socks.
Comment by mick — May 24, 2007 @ 4:07 am
I know it’s the only thing you people want to talk about, but can we move the flash-forward to one side just for a moment?
Am I the only one who thinks that ending the season with Jack’s conversation with the guy on the freighter WITHOUT letting us see that guy or giving us any information about exactly who his people are (beyond the negative revelation that they are NOT Penny’s people), is a little like ending the season with Jack and Locke staring down the hatch without giving us any idea of who or what is down there?
Damon and Carlton received a lot of criticism for the way they ended season one: it’s just a little surprising to me that they should have pulled the same trick all over again.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought it was a great episode overall.
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 4:19 am
i dont think they bent time and went back to the mid before the crash because Jack was telling Kate about using the free airplane tickets that they were given (assuming if you survive an airplane crash, the let you ride for free from then on)
Comment by Chris — May 24, 2007 @ 4:33 am
He said “Forgive me” when he was standing on the ledge.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 24, 2007 @ 4:35 am
Thank you for the “no guns” info. There was one scene I missed due to a phone call. That must’ve been it! Thanks again!
(although I -do- know how to watch the episode…)
Comment by Sean — May 24, 2007 @ 4:41 am
sooo… i think this wasnt a flash’forward’ since Jack’s dad is still alive. he tells the doctor that he should go see his dad and if he is ‘drunker’ than him he could fire Jack.
Comment by omata — May 24, 2007 @ 4:54 am
Was I the only one dissapointed in the final episode? I thought that the flash-forward was useless. -(For all the speculation on Jack’s dad being in an office at the hospital, it’d be a fitting place for his cremated remains.) –and did anyone else find Jack’s beard taking them out of the moment???– I was also crushed that fools spammed the spoiler info and ruined the few scenes I was looking forward to.
Having said that -just a few other comments/theories.
An earlier post mentioned using an ‘Alias’ like moment. Remember how season 1 of that show ended? Vaughn submersed underwater and floating out of view. -I REFUSE to count Charlie out yet. He could get a breath as the room is almost full and then swim out the hole in the wall.
Personally I think that it would be very interesting to let the people at the radio tower get rescued. -But only those at the tower (Alex and Danielle shuffling off like Locke has done, of course.) The ones left on the island would be a very different group to deal with story-wise. Let the rescued people be the ones who have flashes.
-The boat off the shore of the island, not penny’s. As naomi still had a copy of Desmond’s photo, could it be that the boat is Mr. Widmore’s? -Working with Paik Heavy Industries, even? Hello-Dharma- Those food drops have to come from somewhere.
And last of all: WALT -was he really there or was it just another island illusion, like when he kept appearing to Shannon?
Comment by Sandman — May 24, 2007 @ 4:55 am
Okay, every one bust out your Season 1 DVD and rewatch. Jack had his wish come true. He was sent back to the island to “get it right.” When he wakes up in the jungle in the pilot episode, he has been sent back from the episode we just watched. It is a time loop.
He is not lying about Christian being dead in “Through the Looking Glass,” it just hadn’t happened yet. (This is certain - as the pharmacist and the other doctor would know Jack’s father had died. It would be a pointless lie. And if he was that totally loco and was referring to his dead father upstairs, he’d be stripped of his medical license immediately.) Jack gets cleaned up and forgets the island and his need to go back and “fix it.” But then he ends up having to go get his father’s body in Sydney and the crash puts him back on the island to redo it. He has no real memory of things, but a vague deja vu - like familiarity sometimes. He wakes up in the middle of a silent jungle. No idea where he is and no sounds. But he gets up and runs. Fast. To exactly where the crash is and he knows exactly what to do when he gets there.
It is a good theory that is holding up to most of my speculations so far. I just don’t get the “golden pass” thing. And did Jack go back willingly? Intentionally? Or was he pulled back in without knowing it was going to happen? And I can’t figure if Kate is going back through with him or not. (In the beginning, she asks Charlie if she knows him from somewhere.)
And of course, it doesn’t even come close to answering any of the other plethora of puzzlers. Smoke monster. Healing. Whispers. Jacob. Temple. Dharma. Numbers.
But the articles on a panoticon are a very interesting, and likely relevant, read.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:01 am
Sorry, that should have said “panopticon” there.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:03 am
Comment on the flashforwards: I really can’t see them COMPLETETLY replacing the flashbacks with flashforwards…I think we’ll start seeing MORE flashforwards interlaced with flashbacks. Darlton have already promised a Rousseau flashback, and that we would see more of the Purge.
I also think it would be ridiculous to change the on-island time to flashbacks and have the post-rescue time as the present. I think this would remove SO MUCH that we all love about the show. I think (or maybe hope!) that it’s already been established in the finale that the on-island time will continue being present with flashes forward. Either way, we can’t lose the island…Darlton have said it’s a main character in the show.
Comment by dave11:11 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:03 am
Sandman no as i was disaapointed to so to speak thought the episode was good but the so called Game-Changer cam no where near to living up to hype of it it was 100% overhyped in my book so that made be very disappointed
Comment by steve — May 24, 2007 @ 5:04 am
Didn’t read through all the posts to see if this is covered but Naomi said that Penny hired her company to find the Island but Penny never heard about any boat so Naomi lied. It was awesome when Locke knifed her too bad he didnt shoot the radio out of Jack’s hand :).
Comment by vahan solar — May 24, 2007 @ 5:06 am
What a beautiful show last night! Here is my take: the casket Jack visited was Ben. He is obviously sad because he still held hope of getting back. I think the rest of the show will be in the present day. We
Comment by m8ball — May 24, 2007 @ 5:10 am
IT sucked…..it was predictable
Comment by thirdflr — May 24, 2007 @ 5:14 am
Just to prove that I did in fact like this episode, here are two things that made me punch the air with joy:
1. The deaths of Bonnie and Greta. Had they survived, these would have become intensely irritating characters: ‘They’re cute chicks … but they KICK ASS!’ A horrible, excruciating cliche. Besides, listen to the way Bonnie says ‘(Grunt) I told you to shut up!’ when Charlie starts singing as he’s tied up. It’s buttock-clenchingly embarrassing. There is no way I’d've been able to stand any more of that.
2. The death of Naomi. As a British viewer, I was overjoyed when I first heard the rumours that Charlie was going to die, and utterly dismayed when I found out that the mysterious new parachutist was going to be yet another British character. Why do they insist on having a British presence in the cast? It’s not as though the writers are Anglophiles: the occasionally offensive inaccuracies in the representation of a native British idiom and in the references to British culture make that VERY clear.
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 5:17 am
I think Michael is the most likely of the options of who was in the coffin. Black neighborhood and Kate really didnt like who was in the coffin and was neither friend nor family to Jack so Jack didnt like him either. I think Walt wasnt there because well they never really got along either and when Walt figured out what Michael had done to get off the Island that may have been the breaking point.
Comment by vahan solar — May 24, 2007 @ 5:18 am
How come nobody is asking the most important question, who was Naomi, and who is coming to kill the Losties from her ‘camp’? We know she’s not a good guy, we know Ben is right, and we know Desmond is the only living person right now who knows this, to an extent.
Comment by Jeremy032180 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:20 am
I think if you look at Kate when Jack says “We have to go back” — she agrees with him - look at the sadness and regret in her eyes.
I think she knows it is the right thing to do but isn’t willing to take the opportunity.
BTW for all those who are thinking massive coverup; What if they offered Kate and Sawyer full immunity for past crimes in return for their silence — that would explain why she is not in jail.
Comment by Michael — May 24, 2007 @ 5:20 am
1. It was Bernard’s funeral. Bernard would have blamed Jack getting them off the island which caused Rose’s cancer to return.
2. Did anyone else Jacob’s eyes? I think I did.
3. Damn fine episode.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 24, 2007 @ 5:23 am
Jeremy032180:
EXACTLY!
I’ve posted to this effect myself, if you can be bothered to scroll through and find what I said.
NO ONE on here is even asking those questions, let alone offering any theories.
WHO IS ON THE BOAT?
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 5:25 am
funeral was in the African-American community so it was probably Michael or Walt’s funeral.
When Jack pulls up to the store across from funeral home there are two cars in the right background one is a 2006 model and one is a 2007 model. The phone he uses was also not available in 2004 (the time of island present.
Sayid is the worst Intel office ever. He has been “captured” three times, once by Russo, twice by “others”.
Comment by stelvis69 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:25 am
OK for the people complaining the writers provided “no answers”, were you not watching last night?? I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Jack and Kate make it off the island. Seems to answer a BIG question right there as to if anyone would ever leave the island.
Would Charlie die? Yes
Rousseau meet her daughter? Yes
Is Locke still alive? Yes
Not sure what more you would want. Remember they need enough storyline to fill 3 more seasons…
Comment by Tom — May 24, 2007 @ 5:34 am
I agree with Tom’s comments about no answers being given. Clearly some people were not paying attention. Did you expect the writers to explain everything in this episode and use seasons 4,5 and 6 as fillers? Come on folks, get with it.
Comment by JackDaniels — May 24, 2007 @ 5:37 am
What a waste of a finale. Charlie died for no reason (the button combo didn’t unlock anything suddenly killing him, he willingly locked himself in the room, only fufiling what Desmond said, making it completly circular). Suprise Naomi wasn’t working for good people from what Ben told us (anyone following the online game can only suspect it’s Widmore Corp)
To say finding out Charlie died, Rousseau met her daughter, and Locke still alive as answers is BS. When 8 episodes tell you Charlie is going to die, its not a suprise when he does. Rousseau meeting her daughter was inevitable with how much they had made it known, and no crap Locke is still alive, if he didn’t die from the bullet right away, why would they keep him alive, so we could see him die an hour later?
This episode didn’t even raise interesting enough questions to keep me for 7 months. Ok so they show the future when they were saved, telling us they get off the island. Whatever crazy “arc” they throw at us inbetween is pointless because we know they get off, unless it was an alternate reality, but they gave us no reason to believe it was.
And why wasn’t Kate in jail?
Comment by Brian — May 24, 2007 @ 5:47 am
I don’t think Christian is alive….Jack is drinking and taking pain killers and when he makes the comment about his father the Chief of Surgery rolls his eyes.
What people are missing here is that Jack in the future was flashing back to the on island events of when he led them to the Radio Tower. And I think thats why it is a game changer because the show will change format by having the present be Jack and whoever got off the island, flashing back to the island events which is the past.
They chose last night’s episode to be the first “flashback” for future Jack because that was the turning point in the show which led to the eventual fate of Kate and Jack…..the bad people coming.
Personally I don’t like this route…as much content as they think they have for the future of them off the island, this show is about the island and it’s mythology…The only way this would be cool is if in the season premiere of 4 Jack and Kate gets back to the island and we see what has happened to it.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 24, 2007 @ 5:52 am
The person in the coffin was Ben, he died from his cancer returning once he got back to USA.
Comment by abstract-adam — May 24, 2007 @ 5:55 am
Did Walt look older?
Comment by Squirrel — May 24, 2007 @ 5:56 am
The whole concept of LOST (so far) is that past experiences influence your actions. But everyone knows that every descision you make is culimination of your experiences plus what you think the outcome will be. These “future” flash forwards are actually what the Losties think will happen when they get off the island. Now we will see how predicted outcomes affect current actions.
Comment by Deepak — May 24, 2007 @ 5:58 am
what a depressing finale.Dont get me wrong…I loved it!But after a couple of hours thinking about it, all i could think was how very sad.I have been obsessed up to this point but now I think I can quite happily see out the hiatus.After one day of wtf thoughts,I really dont think i can take it further.It was a beautiful episode but it really seemed like the series finale not the season finale.
Comment by donna — May 24, 2007 @ 6:00 am
Donna, I thought that too as for the end of the whole series.
Comment by abstract-adam — May 24, 2007 @ 6:08 am
Its Lockes funeral. Jack holds enough anger yet sympathy for locke to go to his funeral. Kate is not on the run because some survivors (to their convenience) decided to change their names and start over. like locke aka jeremy.
Comment by Dharma&Greg? — May 24, 2007 @ 6:18 am
Thelastfreeman, I like your idea about trying to find the island that way, but direct routes from Los Angeles to those places would diverge, not cross. Now, if you had layovers somewhere, that might be another question.
But it does suggest that even after getting off the island, Jack has reason to believe that it’s in the South Pacific (i.e. when they were rescued, it didn’t turn out to have wandered to another part of the world).
On the other hand, in the scene where he’s sprawled among maps, it seems pretty clear that one book is open to a map of the UK (the shape looks right for it, and the ocean nearby ends in -tic, which I’m guessing is the Atlantic, not the Arctic or Antarctic). Why would he be looking at Britain?
Comment by Tim J. — May 24, 2007 @ 6:18 am
No.. the article in the paper said
“Man found downtown” and was “shot”
Comment by Tom — May 24, 2007 @ 6:23 am
Time Travel!!! Jack and Kate have traveled back in time to the island to lead an assult on the others and change history. The flash forward showed that something horrible will happen when they get off the island and now they must travel back in time to change the outcome. Jack and Kate on the island now are really the FUTURE jack and Kate - notice the strange looks they were giving eachother? Kate’s line to Jack, “here we go again”. Des has already traveled back in time but doesn’t know it (his unexplainable visions). Locke is also a time traveler and is starting to figure it out (he was laying on his own dead body in the pit - the skull with a bullet hole in it, they were gassed! not shot) Walt came back in time to tell Locke not to kill himself because Walt knows that Locke is needed to change the future.
The girl in the car accident - Julia’s sister! That was her kid in the waiting room. Julia must have died before they leave the island, so Jack feels double guilty for the accident and wants to do the surgury himself. The funeral? Locke. No one attended because he has no one in his life.
The black smoke? It’s what happens when time tries to correct itself (there has to be some sci fiction in there). Jacob? Maybe someone stuck between past and future? Darhma? The original company who discovered and protected the time travel thing. Ben? He knows what will happen if this secret gets out - some sort of time/space catastrophy - and is protecting the island at all costs. The hatch? It was the mecanizm controling how far back in time the island was going. Theory of time travels says that you cannot travel back in time to before the time machine was invented, you can only go back to the instance the time machine was invented. You have to continually go back because time continues to go forward. Maybe you keep reseting time every 108 minutes?
wadaya think? Not all of this is original content. I must admit I borrowed some of it from other posts.
Comment by JoeJoeCee — May 24, 2007 @ 6:25 am
Time Travel!!! Jack and Kate have traveled back in time to the island to lead an assult on the others and change history. The flash forward showed that something horrible will happen when they get off the island and now they must travel back in time to change the outcome. Jack and Kate on the island now are really the FUTURE jack and Kate - notice the strange looks they were giving eachother? Kate’s line to Jack, “here we go again”. Des has already traveled back in time but doesn’t know it (his unexplainable visions). Locke is also a time traveler and is starting to figure it out (he was laying on his own dead body in the pit - the skull with a bullet hole in it, they were gassed! not shot) Walt came back in time to tell Locke not to kill himself because Walt knows that Locke is needed to change the future.
The girl in the car accident - Julia’s sister! That was her kid in the waiting room. Julia must have died before they leave the island, so Jack feels double guilty for the accident and wants to do the surgury himself. The funeral? Locke. No one attended because he has no one in his life.
The black smoke? It’s what happens when time tries to correct itself (there has to be some sci fiction in there). Jacob? Maybe someone stuck between past and future? Darhma? The original company who discovered and protected the time travel thing. Ben? He knows what will happen if this secret gets out - some sort of time/space catastrophy - and is protecting the island at all costs. The hatch? It was the mecanizm controling how far back in time the island was going. Theory of time travels says that you cannot travel back in time to before the time machine was invented, you can only go back to the instance the time machine was invented. You have to continually go back because time continues to go forward. Maybe you keep reseting time every 108 minutes?
wadaya think? Not all of this is original content. I must admit I borrowed some of it from other posts.
Comment by JoeJoeCee — May 24, 2007 @ 6:25 am
Can I also just say that, while Charlie’s death seemed in some ways unnecessary, it was really beautifully handled. Those final moments drew together his musical ability, his habit of carrying a marker, and his overwhelming desire to take care of someone as best he could. The look in his eyes as he made sure Desmond understood what was on his hand, and the moment where he crosses himself–just heatbreakingly beautiful.
And for anyone who says we didn’t see him take his final breath: bollocks. We saw his last breath explode out of him in a burst of bubbles. Takes a brave man to go into a situation where he knows he’ll drown, of all things. Charlie is utterly and finally redeemed.
Comment by Tim J. — May 24, 2007 @ 6:25 am
The Kid taken from the raft was Walt on season one.
Comment by tom — May 24, 2007 @ 6:26 am
COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME, I HAVE HAD IT WITH THIS SHIT PROGRAM.
started as the most excitign program I have ever seen, has turned into a soap opera that is mroe frustrating to watch than any program I have ever seen.
I am interested in the exciting parts of the program not the BS love this person blah blah waste of air time it has become.
WHAT WE WANTED TO KNOW
What about the fertility testing.
Why would richard recruit the fetus chick.
How was the island hidden from people
Where is walt and michael
What are the secret properties of the island
Who was on the boat
How did the original people get on the island
Whats this side story about jacob as some ghost
John Locke can just stay on the island if he wants
What is the black smoke
How did the Boat with dynamite get there
Why was the people in the original hatch, spying on other people in a diff hatch
How come people dont seem to die on the island
How did echos brother get on the island
Why is desmond able to see the future
WHAT THEY TOLD US
the people at ABC and the people who made prison break etc are just getting to greedy and playing you all like fools if your excited to see the next season. If they cared about what we think of the show they would have ended it now, told us all what the fark was going on, and they would have spent their time and money making abother great show instead of ruining this one.
I would not be surprised if 20% or more of their viewers didnt watch series four. I watched the last 3 episodes and saw nothing, just flashbacks or flash forwards taking up valuable time.
I am angry, mainly at myself for thinking that they might auctually tell us something that would make we want to watch more.
I saw the answers show from the producers, and the intro promises some answers, but its just the dumb pricks trying to suck up more of your money so they can buy new cars, giving us a walkthrough of what we already know.
We know that desmond not pressing the button crashed the plan, were not a bunch of downsyndrome monkies drooling as we watch the pretty pictures.
Im going to go and delete all 3 episodes I have saved on my PC, everysingle person I meet who hasnt seen it yet will get to hear my thoughts on how shit it is, and dont forget these people make more money with the accesories, DVD copies, toys posters etc than they do on the show, so if you didnt like the fact they just hung you out to dry then DONT BUY ANYTHING, i hope the producers catch an imuno deficency disease for there ignorance.
sorry for the rant but I have never had anyone waste so much of my time, after 3 years and no answers I doubt ill get into another program ever again.
Comment by Hamish — May 24, 2007 @ 6:27 am
7ate9’s great insight to the first episode
Comment by false fate — May 24, 2007 @ 6:27 am
One big thing to keep in mind: the producers have stated that if the survivors of 815 ever get off the island, the show is over. We know there are three more years. The island is still part of the show and I don’t think the rescue is for real.
Comment by PirateJenny — May 24, 2007 @ 6:29 am
I was hoping Danielle would tell Alex that Ben isn’t her father!
Comment by Pete — May 24, 2007 @ 6:32 am
I think it was Sawyer who dead. I think Kate was talking about her sone with Sawyer when she said he’s waiting for me.
Comment by kevin — May 24, 2007 @ 6:35 am
I think it was Sawyer who dead. I think Kate was talking about her son with Sawyer when she said he’s waiting for me.
Comment by kevin — May 24, 2007 @ 6:35 am
First time poster, but long time reader. I think Jack and Kate get everyone together and they go back to the island to change the future. They are all miserable and they want their lives to end differently. This could explain Walt’s age when he’s talking to Locke. Could be that he went back to keep Locke from Killing himself so Locke could stop the rescue. Just a thought.
Comment by holly — May 24, 2007 @ 6:36 am
I’m thinking the funeral is for someone we haven’t met yet, and here’s why (please feel free to shoot the theory down)
When Jack sees the death notice, he’s reading the LA Times. To garner that much space in the Times Obit section, you’ve got to either be marginally famous of connected in California. Neither Ben, Sawyer nor Locke fit that description.
Secondly the visitation is set in a minority funeral home. That would lead to the notion that it’s either Walt, his dad or Rose. We’ll omit Rose, since she’s not a he. None of them would be universally disdained as this person apparently was. Certainly Kate would have wanted to go to the service.
But…none of them (at laeast as of yet) have done anything to garner that sort of mention in the Times.
Therefor, it MUST be someone we haven’t met yet.
Comment by RevDodd — May 24, 2007 @ 6:36 am
10 semi-simple reasons why last night’s episode kicked ace!
1. Sayid killed someone with his feet.
2. Charlie died. Yes, I admit I’ve wanted him to die since season one. Wow Cha-lie, you found imaginary peanut butter-you’ll be useful on this island. But he totally redeems himself when he’s getting his faced bashed in and says ” Hey Ben! It’s me Charlie” He met death like a man.
3. Those underwater sea b*tches got what was coming to them.
4. Hurley ran someone over with the, what I call, the
” Workman Speedwagon.”
5. We saw a flash-forward. Debate all you want whether there is a time warp or if it’s real or not. That doesn’t really matter. It was great writing and something entirely new. Plus, Kate looks even hotter in the future.
6. Jack beats the snot out of Ben. If you weren’t cheering during this scene, then your not American.
7. We get hints that Ben may actually be a “good” guy. Strange to think there may be a good reason why Ben has beeen so deceptive this entire time. Let’s wait and see- till 2010, oh god.
8. We saw what was under Mikail’s eye patch. YUMMY!
9. Naomi died. She’s just annoying.
10. We didn’t have to see anymore of Jacob. In my opinion Jacob is not even real. He’s a construction of Ben, yet another method of manipulating and controlling his people. Why? I have no idea. Why can’t Ben just say the truth. Perhaps, if he told everyone the truth about what’s actually going on noone would stay or he needs the others or he’s just a prick who carries around a wooden doll. (This wasn’t the best reason why last night’s show kicked ace…oops)
Comment by Brian Redman — May 24, 2007 @ 6:40 am
I’m intrigued by this idea of inverting the relationship between the ‘on-island’ present and the ‘off-island past’ in future seasons.
However, I’m not sure that this would be sustainable on an episode-to-episode basis. Any series, even one as novelistic as Lost, has to contain some sense of a status quo, i.e. a set of circumstances which are in place at the beginning of each episode, and which are restored at the end of that episode. Each episode of Star Trek, for instance, begins with a ‘business as usual’ situation on the Enterprise, and ends with the restoration of that same situation. Admittedly, in the post-X Files, post-Babylon 5 environment, the requirement to restore the status quo each week is nowhere near as rigid as it used to be, but nevertheless, there has to be some sense of normality (however imperfect or provisional) to which the characters can return at the end of each week’s show.
Bearing in mind that the survivng castaways may very well be scattered across the globe, I just cannot see how the writers could move the ‘present’ of the show to an ‘off-island’ future whilst maintaining any sense of day-to-day normality for the regular characters (and, therefore, for the viewers).
Apart from anything else, we have to consider the practical considerations, such as the limitations on the production. The main action of any episodic television series has to take place in a finite number of recognisable locations. In the series so far, we’ve been given the beach, the caves, the Swan, the Hydra, the barracks … What would the ‘off-island’ equivalents of these locations be? Where would our characters live? Where would they meet to talk to each other?
As I see it, no matter how much a television series aspires to the condition of the novel, no matter how much it claims to have ‘arc’ storylines, it can never truly break free from the requirement to divide itself into discrete units, self-contained episodes which tell self-contained stories. If the main action of Lost were to move to a post-island future, I cannot see how this would be possible.
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 6:40 am
When Mr. Friendly took Walt off the boat Sawyer promised him that he would kill him.
Comment by Sam — May 24, 2007 @ 6:42 am
“The song was “Scentless Apprentice” from “In Uetero.” It was released in 1993. I think there is plenty of signifigance here. I don’t think it was a flash forward. I’m convinced the island has a great deal to do with bending space and time. I think Jack and Kate are in the mid 90’s when we see them at the end. What if the island is a doorway to alternate planes? It seems Jack knows they made a mistake by leaving. Desmond’s ability will be real important. When all is said and done I believe we will have to piece things together kind of like “Pulp Fiction” with a space/time continuum twist…”
I agree. In addition, the possibility of Jack’s Father still being alive also points to this (Think scene in hospital hallway- Get my Dad down here, and if he’s drunker than me, you can fire me….”). This episode vindicates my earlier post regarding Time Rooms. Finally, I’d like to add, it’s also possible that the timeline of the rescue (Possibly malevolent ship/Sat phone call) ship is “not” the same timeline/universe(Think….multiverse) as Penelopy’s Com-Link conversation with Charlie just prior to his demise.
Comment by JoeLiberty — May 24, 2007 @ 6:54 am
totally a flash forward but an alternate one.
i think the writers did this on purpose for “us”, the audience. think if they spent all of season 4 trying NOT to get rescued. how confusing that would be. jack has made a mistake about calling naomi’s boat. he now realizes it. somehow he gets the chance to relieve that moment when locke tells him to put the phone down and he does. because we know that it is possible to go back in time.. that’s why we saw desmond with penny before he joined the military. — that whole episode and sequence… that was for us to realize that it is possible.
Richard (non aging) will have a play in this. And I think the man in the coffin is someone we haven’t met. definetly.
Comment by ang — May 24, 2007 @ 6:54 am
Thank you, Brian, for pointing out to Tom that the answers were ones we already knew! I am still a fan of the show, but agree with the poster who said this looked more like a show finale than a season finale. Also, I like some of your ideas JoJoCee. Finally, I know Juliet could have marked three tents for the fun of it, but the idea that there are THREE pregnant women among the losties is wonderful. We know Sun, but definitely Kate being another explains a lot of why she would not want to go back to the island (babies and mothers not surviving pregnancy, etc). Who would the other mother be?…
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 24, 2007 @ 7:04 am
wasn’t Julliet going out with Ethan or Goodwin when the plane first crashed? Could she be the third pregnant woman. Thus hasting even further her need to get off the island, because she knows her own fate!?!
Comment by ang — May 24, 2007 @ 7:07 am
http://bp0.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/RlUOKWnofdI/AAAAAAAAALw/2oyx2_B2Wq4/s1600-h/a04.1-full.JPG
Screen cap. “Jo…” and then a last name that’s definitely longer than Locke.
And it’s definitely a flash forward. Jack’s not talking on a Motorola Krzr in the mid-90’s.
Comment by KB — May 24, 2007 @ 7:12 am
I really don’t think that Charlie is dead. I think Desmond will save him with the air tanks and take him back to Claire.
I’m going to go with the funeral being Ben or Michael. It is possible that Michael became a famous artist when he went back to New York. But, that Walt probably didn’t go with him (I’m guessing the others are keeping him underground) and that he just couldn’t take it anymore, and hung himself.
Kate’s with Sawyer.
I like the idea of things being in the future from now on and the island being a flashback.
The makeup department did a hideous job on Jack’s fake beard. Terrible.
Did anyone notice that Jack had a color tattoo on his arm? Or did I imagine that?
Comment by Kate — May 24, 2007 @ 7:13 am
The funeral had to be for Locke. No one else who may have been rescued had as much to lose as he did. And the fact that not one person, save Jack, came to the viewing shows how leaving the island reduced him from “special” visionary to total nobody. Jack saw this as a huge sign of just how big a mistake it was for him to get everyone off the island. Also, I don’t understand what this site’s author means by last season’s “Game Changer.” This season’s twist was light years ahead of last season’s finale. This changes the DNA of show, not just the plot. It was a brave move. Nice going, Damon and Carlton! Well done!
Comment by mr.guy — May 24, 2007 @ 7:13 am
I’m still working on the part where the girl turns out to be Danielle’s daughter. Does that mean that Ben is her biological father or did he steal her from Danielle?
Also, I thought all the babies born on the island had mothers that died — and Danielle says, ‘That was three days before you were born’. Who’s her father? Someone from off the island? Then why did Ben have her? Also, I thought Danielle had a son who got sick and died. Isn’t that what she said in the beginning?
Comment by more questions — May 24, 2007 @ 7:20 am
Let’s see…we’ve been on the island for what…90 days?? Let’s do some math. 90 days and the show’s been on for 3 seasons. That means we may have up to 3 more months of on-island time to watch. All of our questions will be answered in due time.
Comment by Pete — May 24, 2007 @ 7:22 am
Please guys, no more posts of the ‘I think Charlie is still alive’ variety. If I read one more I’m going to scream.
And the same goes for all of you who think that Christian Shephard is still alive.
Can we move on?
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 7:24 am
Sorry for not going through all the posts so this may already have been said… but I just want to give props to my girlfriend who caught Jack using a blueish Motorola Razr phone which basically gave away that the scene was taking place “post-island.” She had only watched like 2 previous season 3 episodes and most of seasons 1 & 2 and had no idea what the twist was going to be.
Comment by adam — May 24, 2007 @ 7:26 am
Alex is Russeau’s daughter. Russeau was pregnant when she ended up on the island after her ship ran aground. After she gave birth to Alex, the baby was stolen by the others. Ben has no biological relation to her.
Because Alex was concieved OFF ISLAND, Russeau did not die. Ben raised her as his own for his own reasons.
Comment by ang — May 24, 2007 @ 7:35 am
The scene where Sayid, Jin and Bernard were captured…did anyone else get Deja Vu? Like they had seen it before? When I was watching it, I could’ve sworn that there was a scene exactly like it in a previous episode…like word for word and shot for shot…
Comment by rightfrog — May 24, 2007 @ 7:36 am
This adds absolutely nothing to the current discussion, but did you know there is a real life Pearl Station?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6687139.stm
Now I’ve got finish reading all these posts.
Comment by Higdon — May 24, 2007 @ 7:36 am
maybe jeremy bentham is the post-island pseudonym for someone and it is one of the things that jack is “sick of lying” about….it would make sense that if there’s a cover up, they would be using different names since kate’s not in jail….they don’t forgive murder just because you were in a plane crash….
Comment by dr spooky — May 24, 2007 @ 7:36 am
Jack was obviously drunk and high as he spoke about his father (and he probably wrote the prescription for himself as well). I don’ t think that futureflash automatically means that Jack’s father is dead. I do believe that when they are rescued, many people who were leaders, who had friends, who became strong and were weak before - are going to have alot of difficulty getting back to a reality where they are nobody…
Comment by drmoogu — May 24, 2007 @ 7:36 am
The other Mother could be Ben’s Kid. He had said in a snotty double manner that he was trying to keep her from getting pregnant… I forget what he says after that but basically it was both a jab that he should have just let her and a wish that he could keep her from getting pregnant knowing that it would kill her.
ALSO from another web page:
WHAT IS THE ISLAND?
A possible ”real science” explanation of Lost
Guest commentary by J. Wood, author of the great new book Living Lost and writer of one of the best Lost blogs out there, housed at powells.com. J. recently sent me an email with this take on the Island. Given that his theory addresses Desmond’s visions of Charlie’s death and Naomi’s claim that the Oceanic 815 passengers were all found dead
Comment by jhk — May 24, 2007 @ 7:36 am
I think the man in the casket was Sawyer. The J in the article could mean James and you have to consider the fact that perhaps Sawyer went and changed his name again. Also, it would make perfect sense as to why Kate was upset when Jack showed the article. Sawyer has relatively no contacts back in true civilization and Kate, true to her nature probably left him for some other guy when they got off the island. I don’t think Jack would call her up to discuss Micheal, Ben or Locke either. I hate to think they would kill Sawyer, but it isn’t too far of a stretch…..i mean, they even went far enought to make jack a suicidal drug addict.
Comment by Mads — May 24, 2007 @ 7:46 am
I know this is long, but i think i have a really good theory going here, and i really want to hear your thoughts.
I think some stay on the island and some go home. The group that was with jack gets on the heli, the ones on the beach see the helecopter fly over and start hightailing it to the radio tower but dont get there in time, or, theres no room on the heli, and whoever picks them up plans on making another trip to pick up the others, and jack promises rose kate sun and clair that theyll go back for bernard, convincing them to get on the helicopter. So they plan to come back for bernard, sawyer, sayid, jin, hurly, juliette, and charlie and des, but when they go to take off to pick them up, they find locke has jammed the radio, on destoryed the phone, so they loose contact again, and cant rescue them, and are forced to leave without them.
There is some even bigger reason they werent supposed to leave, and locke knows this, and it appears jack realizes it once he is back home, and goes nuts with booze and pills, and even suicide because of it, its something pretty life changing, and something he feels responsible for, because he was completely changed when we saw him.
I think Jack is so fucked up on oxy and booze, that he pretends his dads alive, or just said that line in reference to his father once working on the third floor and being a drunk, not actually meaning he is up on the third floor, but just as figure of speech, remember he was pretty fucked up in that scene, and hes kind of turning into his father, and is quit disorented and obviously distraught over his choices, for someone who always has to fix bad situations, that would really get to him if by getting everyone off the island, he really did something horribly wrong, and in turn ruined these peoples lives, hes messed up in his head, and the father thing might just be a part of that, it seemed the other doctor was just humouring him.
I think the dead person is rose. The priest walked out holding roses. Jack was so upset when he found out and didnt want to see her body because he feels responsible for her death and the fact that bernard wasnt with her, she trusted jack, and when jack brought her off the island, her cancer came back. No one came to the funeral because as far as we know, she had no family other than bernard.
There are reasons for every single person to stay on that island, and those reasons will start to come out. Jack mumbled “not again” when he ate that last pill in the bottle while standing over the coffin. That could mean not again hes out of pills, or not again, something else went wrong because they left the island.
Kate wont talk to him because hes gone loco over leaving, and she still beleieves it was the right thing. Maybe because she was really pregnant, and its her child who is wondering where she would be? and if she stayed on the island, she would have possibly died along with sun. That would still tie her to sawyer although he is still stuck on the island, that being the reason she finally agrees to go back with Jack, whome i think will get together with penny, who now knows thanks to her chat charlie that the survivors of flight 815 are with desmond, and start planning together to go back, with pennys social status and money, and jacks stong desire to go back, they might pull it off together.
Notice how all the couples are seperated at the end, and the pregnant women are with jack, the group that contacted the heli, that means if they go home, sun will have her baby and survive, but possibly without jin, claire will always be wondering what happened to charlie, kate will be without sawyer, possibly carrying his baby, and rose without bernard, giving them all reason to go back too, and the fact that there all spit up would alone cause jack to feel like shit about leaving. I think season 3 will show what happens with the ones left on the island, and the ones off the island, and jacks efforts to get back and convince the others to come with him, including walt and micheal! if there not already back on the island…..
i have other theorys about the hatch emplosion and the ramafacations of that pertaining to whats happening, but thats a whooole other story
thoughts?
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 7:48 am
Hey folks- its called a “cliffhanger” for a reason. Wouldn’t you be disappointed if they cleaned up too many mysteries? And as much as I’ll miss Charlie (and who knows if he is really gone- maybe Desmond will find a way in yet) he felt he had to die to get Claire and Aaron rescued. To change Desmond’s prophesy might jeopardize that.
I’m intrigued by the circularness of the story last night. In past episodes, flashbacks help to illutsrate why a character is acting/reacting to things in the present. How might us learning about the future help with that exposition? And is the fufture really set in stone? (yes, I watch “HEROES” too…)
Except for the scene where the dentist spilled his guts about EVERYTHING, I thought it was a pretty good episode other than the commercials every 7 minutes. (I found myself wondering if it was really an hour long with twice the commercials!) I appreciate not being talked down to by the writers. Too many shows take the easy route to crank out their product.
Comment by WeeblesWobble — May 24, 2007 @ 7:56 am
THE ENTIRE FIRST THREE SEASONS WERE JUST A FLASHBACK…
Comment by radnac — May 24, 2007 @ 7:56 am
I told you there’d be consequences to the mass spoiling….
http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=9c9aafc1-e118-4d0c-9686-6b982fbd4e87
I hope all of you that enjoyed this massive spoilage bathe in your own contempt as detox insues with the lack of spoilers over the longest hiatus of the show, ever.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 24, 2007 @ 7:56 am
Jack is in the coffin-the other Jack-because their are 2 now because he came off the island and should not have.
Comment by PlumBucket — May 24, 2007 @ 7:59 am
Wow. This really is amazing. I’ve been keeping my eye on this thread for nearly twelve hours now, and still no one is addressing, or even *asking*, the most important question:
WHO IS ON THE BOAT?
Can we stop talking about the snake in the mailbox for just a moment, and start talking about the elephant in the room?
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 7:59 am
I think the people that are using the comment that Jack made about his father as proof that the scenes off the island weren’t glimpses of the future are grasping at straws. The Chief of surgery clearly looks at Jack like he’s lost it, which he has because his father is dead. There are also other clues. After he saves the motorists someone mentions that this is the second time he was a hero. The first being when he got the survivors off the island. When he is in his apartment calling Kate there are maps and charts all over. It looks like he is trying to find the island.
It also makes sense in the context of where the show is at. There is very little left to explore in the past of the main characters. How can they reveal more about Locke that will be more shocking then what has already been revealed. So to avoid subjecting viewers to more “how Jack got his tattoo” episodes they have opened it up. Now they can do flash forwards and flash backs. Many more options to keep things interesting.
Next season they will still be on the island. Everyone seems to assume that because they got through on the satellite phone they will be immediately rescued. I certainly didn’t see the survivors getting on any helicopters at the end of the episode. Also, it appears from Jack’s statement at the end of the episode that they weren’t supposed to leave the island. That would suggest that perhaps Ben wasn’t lying for once. It seems highly possible to me that the people with Naomi aren’t there to rescue them or even Desmond as she claimed. Keep in mind that Penny didn’t know about them.
The funeral. At first I was thinking Sawyer. Now I am thinking it is a new character that hasn’t been introduced yet. On the screen capture blog it looks like the name is Jeremy Bentham. If you look the name up on Wikipedia he was an English philosopher, legal and social reformer and influenced the development of liberalism. It also states that the name will be used for a character on the 4th season of Lost. Since it is Wikipedia it is hard to tell if that can be trusted, but it certainly makes sense and fits with the theme of incorporating the names of philosophers. It is also consistent with the producers constantly saying that they know where they are going with the show and have left clues that will pay off in the end. i.e. having Jack go to the funeral of a character that hasn
Comment by Joel — May 24, 2007 @ 8:00 am
Further thoughts. The “he” Kate referrs to with Jack is not Sawyer. It is her son. Is that a Volvo she’s driving? The impression I had after watching the episode was that Kate was stable and living a normal life. Not really the Kate and Sawyer we know. I don’t see Kate and Sawyer living a white picket fence kind of life together. Kate seemed to genuinely love the husband in her flashback but couldn’t make it work. This begs the question . . .what would finally cause her to settle down? I don’t think the answer is Sawyer or any other romantic interest. What is more likely to cause her to cut Jack out of her life, not wanting to make Sawyer jealous? Or is it because she is trying to protect her kid from an obsessed, boozed up, oxycodone addicted Jack?
Comment by Joel — May 24, 2007 @ 8:10 am
Clovis
I think it is Dharma and Naomi was there originally to kill Desmond to prevent Penny from looking for the island. What are the full implications of this? will there be payback for the “purge?”
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 24, 2007 @ 8:12 am
Joel:
I think you’re exactly right.
I don’t know how they’re going to get off the island in the end, but I’m pretty sure that they are NOT going to be resuced by Naomi’s people, whoever they may be.
We all know that Ben is a bit of a fibber, but something tells me that we need to pay close attention to what he has to say in this episode.
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 8:13 am
Try this one for size. There is still the possibilty that Locke hid the sub and didn’t blow it up right? So when he leaves after telling Jack not to make the call to the freighter, he is on his way to the sub. Maybe he uses the sub to take out the ship?
Comment by FairhopeAlabama — May 24, 2007 @ 8:15 am
1)Is Christian Shephard alive? Maybe the best question is, will today’s modern, networked, computerized pharmacies fill prescriptions from dead doctors?
2)Maybe that is exactly what happened! Wasn’t that the song Charlie was ‘writing’ playing on Jack’s radio when he pulled up to the funeral parlor?
1) When Jack lost it in the hospital and the head of surgery was confronting him he told him to bring his father down from his office and see if he’s drunker than Christian. I’m assuming Christian is in fact alive.
2) The song playing on the radio when Jack was going to the funeral parlor was Scentless Apprentice by Nirvana. The song is based on a book called Perfume by Patrick Suskind. In short, the book follows a man with an amazing gift and his struggles with that gift. I great read and highly recommended.
Comment by GMoney — May 24, 2007 @ 8:19 am
Has anyone mentioned/discussed the fact that we never actually see Desmond’s premonition of Charlie’s death or of the helicopter rescue? Maybe he didn’t actually see this at all? Maybe he is actually manipulating everyone? Why was he so eager to take Charlie’s place?
I think the Desmond/Penelope/Penelope’s father triangle is the key. Also, the monk’s seemed to definitely knew more about Desmond’s fate/purpose in all of this.
Comment by RichardWeed — May 24, 2007 @ 8:21 am
How do we know that Jack’s flashforwards weren’t also flashbacks?
The events happening to Jack appear to occur in the future and apparently after he and, at least, Kate get off the island. But what if they are the memories of “current” Jack-on-the-island. What if Jack got back to the island now knowing the consequences if the outside world discovers the island.
But then why would he contact the freighter? I don’t know. Maybe so he can maintain the rest of the Losties loyalties and draw the people on the freighter into a trap like the one he just made for the Others? That doesn’t make sense.
I’m confused because from a story-telling perspective, I don’t understand why the producers would show that last scene. We would now know that some will get off the island which is a major source of suspense on the show. Showing the end - if it really is the end - will turn away viewers. The producers know this and I’ve read they’ve said it too. So why would they show us the end?
Unless it isn’t the end. Unless it is part of the beginning. What if that scene at the runway with Kate took place in 2004 before the crash? What if Jack’s S4 “flashforwardbacks” tell the story of how he finally understood what the Others were doing, why sinister outside forces wanted to find the island and also how Jack finds a way to get back on Oceanic 815 and back onto the island.
What if… someone powerful comes to Jack in is distressed, depressed state with an offer. “I can see you want to fix what you have done. You want to go back to the island? I can make that happen. But first you must go to Sydney, and kill your father. Don’t get on the plane unless you bring his body with you.” What would that be similar to? Ben and Locke had to kill their fathers to gain access to the island. It would allow us to see Christian Shephard’s death (at what could be more dramatic than having Jack kill him?). Having succeeded in doing that, Jack is returned to the island with a chance to change things.
I dunno. I just think that the runway scene CAN’T just be a “look to the future to see the consequences of what happens on the island”. It CAN’T just be “uh-oh, maybe getting off the island wasn’t such a good idea, maybe Ben was right”. That scene has to be part of middle chapter and not the last words of the novel.
Comment by Stitchmonger — May 24, 2007 @ 8:23 am
I also think it was interesting that Locke killed Naomi. He didn’t kill Jack and he couldn’t kill his father, even though he clearly thought his father deserved to die. It has been a theme that Locke is not a killer for a while now. Think back to the end of the flashback when Locke is on the pot farm. When he gets the undercover officer out into the woods he cannot kill him. Yet he was able to kill Naomi. Suggests to me that he knows she isn’t one of the “good guys.”
Comment by Joel — May 24, 2007 @ 8:24 am
The many flashbacks were needed for us to care and understand the characters as much as we do. Now I think moving forward they are going to spend a lot of time doing the individual flash-fowards. I have a feeling that these forwards are going to be miserable that they will wish for death for most of them. This leaves Jacob, the “spirt” or whatever that controls the island, which in turn controls Ben. Is he/it good overall? Is it looking out for everyone by not wanting/letting them go back to their lives. Maybe Jacob spoke to Locke for him to help him instead of Ben. Why wouldn’t Jacob kill Ben for trying to interfere with Locke helping him or becoming the new leader. The black smog…is this Jacob in the spiritual form or is this controlled by him/it? Is it a ‘God-like spirit or evil? Is it judging the past evil actions of the characters OR their hearts? Ultimately what makes sense is that it is Jack is a fixer, and feels incomplete until something has closure on the island whereas Kate is stronger and can handle the either heartache or the tragedy they left the island in. Posing all these scenarios in my head is tiring.
Comment by Sonnie Deane — May 24, 2007 @ 8:25 am
Have no idea if this is relevant or not but FYI - here are the Scentless Apprentice Lyrics:
Like most babies smell like butter
His smell smelled like no other
He was born scentless and senseless
He was born a scentless apprentice
Go away - get away, get a-way
Every wet nurse refused to feed him
Electrolytes smell like semen
I promise not to sell your perfumed secrets
There are countless formulas for pressing flowers
Go away - get away, get a-way
I lie in the soll and fertilize mushrooms
Leaking out gas fumes are made into perfume
You can’t fire me because I quit!
Throw me in the fire and I won’t throw a fit
Go away - get away, get away, get away, get away, get away, get a-way
Comment by RichardWeed — May 24, 2007 @ 8:29 am
TabulaRasa:
It’s certainly tempting to think that Naomi represents Dharma. My only question is that if she is, why would they delay that revelation until next season? It’s a highly plausible explanation, but not a terribly exciting one, (at least, not in my opinion).
Actually, I can answer that myself: they want us to infer a causal link between Jack’s contacting Naomi’s people and the revelation that Jack and Kate do eventually get off the island. They want us to think that one leads directly to the other. Revealing that the boat is from Dharma would have undermined that attempt to pull the wool over our eyes.
(By the way, what’s happened to the ‘Reply to so-and-so’s message’ box on here?)
Comment by ClovisSangrail — May 24, 2007 @ 8:31 am
To me some of the more intriguing questions are:
- What’s the deal with Cindy (the stewardess)? She said she was “observing” when she spoke to Jack in the cage. It doesn’t seem like she could be a plant since she was on the plane and could have died but still. She’s a wrench in many of my theories.
- Why is Penelope searching for the island and Desmond? Surely if he had been lost in the race she would assume he was dead or at least wouldn’t be looking for an uncharted island. Seems like people’s Widmore Corp theories would have some bearing on this.
- Did Mikhail take a spear through the heart and live?
- Richard is also a big x-factor.
Good stuff!
Comment by Kevbot — May 24, 2007 @ 8:32 am
now this maybe way off but i think it’s something to think about.. i think a third person got off the island and that person is in the coffin and it’s sawyer.. he doesn’t have no family or freinds as he’s a conman.. i don’t know why kate wouldn’t show up but jack did and they never regarded each other as friends.. what do you all think?
Comment by LostLegend — May 24, 2007 @ 8:33 am
I think Jack’s decisions on the island in the present time are molding what happens in the future. And the future flashes were just that.
Also, about the line at the end where Jack says I’m tired of lying. Perhaps once they got off the island they find out that Naomi isn’t sho she says she is and everyone is forced to cut a deal with whoever runs the freighter not to tell anyone what the true nature of the island is.
Comment by Safi — May 24, 2007 @ 8:34 am
The reason Malcolm David Kelley or “Walt” looked older is because he was 12 years old when they started filming and now he is 15! I’m thinking thats why they used the angels and baggy clothing to try and make him look younger.
Comment by John Locke's Bastard Son — May 24, 2007 @ 8:37 am
I think there is a lot to say of Locke’s actions at the end of the episode. First of all Locke never met or knew of Naomi, but had no problem throwing a knife in her back POTENTIALLY killing her (i don’t beleive she is dead.) This poses another interesting questions I ‘ve never seen Locke kill anyone, he couldn’t kill his father, but yet wanted his father dead. Why was he so quick to again potentially kill Naomi, and if it was because he would do anything to stay on the island. Why could he not pull the trigger on Jack? And why did Jack know that he wouldn’t do it? It appears that Locke knows the answers, but isn’t willing to share. “You’re not suppose to do this.”
Comment by elars1979 — May 24, 2007 @ 8:40 am
Wow… lots of comments… only read through the first 100 or so, so hopefully I’m not repeating anyone.
Several episodes ago, I was telling my wife about “Jacob” and she suggested it was Jack… Jack - Jacob. Pretty darn close. I chose to go with a lot of other people and say that it was Locke. However, after seeing bearded Jack, going to the future, and all… I think Jack is definitely Jacob. Somehow, he figures out a way to travel back and but can only appear as an abohrition since he still exists on the island at that time. Ben is actually working for Jack the entire time. Jack wants to keep everyone on the island for whatever reason we don’t know yet. Jack travels back, tells Ben and the resistence to kill the Dharma group and block any incoming transmissions to stop the incident that just happened. The others have not tried to kill anyone at this point - until my wife mentioned to me they hung Charlie. Charlie is the one Jack would want dead because he flips the switch for the Looking Glass. I like what someone said before on here about them actually building the runway for flight 815 but because of Desmond, that never happened. Back to Jacob/Jack - at the end, where Locke won’t shoot Jack to stop him, it would defeat Jacob’s orders - killing Jack kills Jacob. Locke is acting in the same way Ben is now, trying to help future Jack in his mission of keeping them there. Desmond is the kink in this entire plan. Charlie was supposed to die long before he flipped the switch. Desmond is interloping in the path.
Some other things - I think something happened to everyone. I don’t think Kate is with Sawyer, I think everyone is dead except for Kate and him. I don’t think funeral guy is someone we know and if it is, I think it could only be Michael.
New Questions: Why does Naomi have a picture of Desmond and Penny when she doesn’t know Penny? Why isn’t Kate wanted anymore in the future?
Comment by Wayne — May 24, 2007 @ 8:41 am
blooody amazing episode. i couldn’t fall asleep till 1:00! wait so i read all these like 1,000 comments and people are saying we have to wait till february, so they have marked a date for the season 4 premiere. oh and i thought it was 5 seasons, not 6? and whoever was ranting on, about never watching lost, and not getting answers, 3 more seasons, would explain obviously why we’re not getting these answers you demand. did you really believe you’d get them so fast?
Comment by keely — May 24, 2007 @ 8:43 am
Naomi was obviously out to harm them, maybe kill desmond so penny wouldnt find the island, because locke doesnt just kill anyone. Dharmas on the boat, and it should be an interesting helicopter ride when they pick them up, which i belive WILL happen. Des wont be there when the heli comes, and they most likly know that these people were on a plane that crashed, there names would have been in the papers. So they will offer rescue. Maybe force them all to live in LA so they can keep an eye on them and make sure they dont tell anyone about the island. Thats why kate doesnt want to go back, maybe dharmas covering up her crimes, like a backwards whitness protection program, in return, she cant tell anyone about the island or have contact with the other survivors. Thats why no one was at the funeral and she had to meet jack at night and told him not to call her. Jack said he was sick of lying because none of them are allowed to speak out about what happened to them, all they got was a lowsy gold card from oceanic. Also kate has a son, that is her life now, shes safe, and she doesnt want to go back, but her love for sawyer is still burried deep down, and she has a strong hidden desire to go back too, but is somewhat afraid of who jack has become, and doesnt trust he can pull it off, and that dharma will hand her over to the feds if they find out that shes made an effort to go back. Going back is not in any way going to be easy. you should read my other post if your confused hah.
Comment by jess — May 24, 2007 @ 8:45 am
Ack - forgot about another thing - Danielle! Her timeline is very very strange. Ben admitted the purge wasn’t long ago - no earlier than 3 years and whatever as admittance from Juliette from when she came to the island. Danielle came there 16 years ago and had the baby 3 days after she started the transmission sequence. Was she pregnant before she got to the island? What research mission would take a pregnant woman in her second or third trimester there? I think there’s a lot to be answered in her story now.
Comment by Wayne — May 24, 2007 @ 8:45 am
Here’s my take:
Jack and Kate (probably other losties as well) were given a deal to get off the island. Don’t talk about the island and we’ll let you off. Maybe they were even allowed to return to an alternate timeline where Christian didn’t die and Kate never killed her father. I think the ‘he’ Kate referred to was her original husband. So they both got to return to their lives before the crash (but ‘improved’) in return for their silence about the island. But now something is happening, something is going wrong and it is tearing Jack apart because he feels he is responsible and that he has to fix it. So obviously, leaving the island screwed something up. I think that the funeral was the last straw for Jack. The person who died was 1) Someone else who was rescued who was killed for taking about the island or 2)Someone who was Jack’s last hope of getting back to the island.
Just my two cents . . . .
Comment by el_loco — May 24, 2007 @ 8:49 am
Ack! - sorry! One more comment! I think there was more in Sawyer’s words than let on when he shot Mr. Friendly. If Walt wouldn’t have been taken, Michael would have never went after him, and would never have been lead to shoot Ana Lucia.
Comment by Wayne — May 24, 2007 @ 8:49 am
Here is a thought - what if the show ends, where in began (i.e. Stephen Kings the Dark Tower series)
Let’s say the show sticks with the flashforward theme - our take on the purpose of the flashforwards would be to show us that the Losties are desparatley trying to return to the mysterious Island ~ meanwhile, the show continues with some of the Losties trying to GET OFF the Island (LOST 2004 timeline). Season 6 finale ends with reuinon on Island…
Thoughts?
Also, does anyone think that smokie will attempt to stop this yet-to-be-seen rescue mission? Or at least cause chaos to prevent anyone leaving?
Comment by locke_and_key — May 24, 2007 @ 8:52 am
RE: The whole Christian Sheppard thing:
Jack talking to the doctor about his father I believe was just thrown in to keep people thinking it was the past so the shocker would be more shocking. If you notice the doctor looks at him strangely and then Jack says, “Don’t pity me.” I think he was merely aluding to the fact that his Dad had much worse problems than he does, so get off his back. He was saying it int he midst of explaining all the problems he has just experienced. Also “down the hall” could refer to ashes of his father in his office.
Also I think the people Jack rescued from the car were Claire and Aaron. She had an 8 year old son and Jack seemed realy passionate about making her ok. They mentioned a last name, but that is easily explained with a new marriage off the island. The son seemed to waive very happily to Jack like he had known him for a while. The chief of staff put a big emphasis on “8 year old son.”
Comment by Gavin — May 24, 2007 @ 8:52 am
I slow-mo’ed the scene where Jack was looking at the newspaper clipping before he went into the funeral parlor. It’s definitely a man, and the first line reads “The body of J…” that’s all that can be made out. It’s Locke for sure. Also the funeral director asks if he’s friend or family and Jack replies “neither”
Comment by Eric — May 24, 2007 @ 8:54 am
They couldn’t have left anyone on the island or else why would Kate say they don’t need to go back? Why wouldn’t she want the rest of them to be rescued? Somehow, time has changed and Jack realized Ben was right. The person in the casket has to be someone Jack was upset enough about to want to jump off a bridge. Can’t be sawyer, Michael or other losties. He wouldn’t want to kill himself over them. Possibly Ben (because he was right) or someone new. Walt is obviously older, I mean c’mon he has been on the show for years duh. Interesting finale.
Comment by Trekee35 — May 24, 2007 @ 8:54 am
My big question is , if Ben really thought it was a huge mistake for them to leave the island then why didn’t he just tell Jack the truth? Why not give him a reason why they are there, what they are working on, and who Naomi really is??? Seems like he didn’t try hard enough to get Jack not to make that call.
Comment by Trekee35 — May 24, 2007 @ 8:57 am
I LOVE THE FACT THAT THEY KEPT IT FRETTY TRUE TO REALITY IN SAWYERS CASE… ONCE YOU KILL ONE… YOU CAN KILL A MILLION TIMES… THATS WHY HE “ALL OF A SUDDEN HAD AN ISSUE WITH TOM ABOUT SEASON ONE’S ACTIVITIES”..
Comment by Reed — May 24, 2007 @ 8:59 am
will someone please read my posts! you guys are so “lost”
Trekee35 - They couldn’t have left anyone on the island or else why would Kate say they don’t need to go back? The person in the casket has to be someone Jack was upset enough about to want to jump off a bridge.
- read my comments!
…and i wouldnt buy into the screen capped clipping shit just yet.
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:00 am
I LOVE THE FACT THAT THEY KEPT IT FRETTY TRUE TO REALITY IN SAWYERS CASE… ONCE YOU KILL ONE… YOU CAN KILL A MILLION TIMES… THATS WHY HE “ALL OF A SUDDEN HAD AN ISSUE WITH TOM ABOUT SEASON ONE’S ACTIVITIES”..
Comment by Reed — May 24, 2007 @ 9:00 am
I LOVE THE FACT THAT THEY KEPT IT FRETTY TRUE TO REALITY IN SAWYERS CASE… ONCE YOU KILL ONE… YOU CAN KILL A MILLION TIMES… THATS WHY HE “ALL OF A SUDDEN HAD AN ISSUE WITH TOM ABOUT SEASON ONE’S ACTIVITIES”..
Comment by Reed — May 24, 2007 @ 9:00 am
First I would like to start that when Locke saw Walt it was not Walt. Of course it was the Black Cloud/Monster/Jacob if you agree with me. The island communicates to these people in such ways. Perhaps Jacob chose Walt to help him believe in the island even that much more. For the writers to chose to bring Walt back though they will have to explain why he looked a hell of alot older in a matter of a month and a half. Time is going by much faster in the outside world. I imagine the two times that the button was not pushed there was a time split. I’m not good with details but I’m sure it will have something to do with that. I’m also pretty sure that the only time we see Walt is with Locke in the jungle since I highly doubt he is back. The rest of the people won’t see him just as Hurley and Dave, Jack and his father, etc.
As far as the “flashback” in the finale I was completely fooled. I had no idea what was really going on until Kate got out of the car and then what Jack said next. Absolutely perfect ending to a season where we are going to have to wait eight months to get more. It is going to drive us all crazy before then I’m sure. But there were a couple of things I found fishy during the flashes so I’m kind of suprised I didn’t see it. DID ANYONE ELSE NOTICE JIN AND SUN SITTING BEHIND JACK ON THE AIRPLANE IN THE OPENING FLASHBACK???? The Oceanic flight he was on where the lady refused to bring him another drink. I don’t have tivo or anything fancy like that so I’ll have to wait for the dvd release to check again. I guess it’s just nice to know Oceanic gets back into the traveling business after their little ordeal in Sydney. I would imagine that the person in the casket was a fellow 815er who starting dying once they left the island which could be several people so I don’t find it necessary to indulge in all of them. Whoever it was it made Jack very upset to hear about it and apparently Kate didn’t give a rats ass so I would say the body was probably the only person that could have taken Jake back to the island which he wanted so badly…Ben…
Back to the island…like I said in a previous post on one site or another…once Sawyer finds out he is most likely the father of Kate’s baby, he’s going to become the badass leader/hero that they will need to defend against these new foes brought to them by Naomi. This was one instance where Jack should have taken Ben seriously. Forget about Jack, Sawyer is going to be the one that isn’t going to let these newcomers mess with people. I see them all migrating to the ruins giving them a little time to prepare for whatever awaits them. Plus that would be cool because that is one part of the island we have seen very little of. The more history of the island the better for all of us. Somehow I imagine that Locke is going to be an outcast on the next season. Living and learning from the island I’m sure that he will be rarely seen in upcoming episodes (8 months from now) but when he is around I’m positive he will be doing the will of Jacob since it’s pretty evident that the island/Jacob is what healed him from the get go. Ben will no longer be an authoritve figure within the group. His people did go the “The Temple” which is another part of the island we have not seen so I imagine that will play into the end of season 4 and then most of season 5.
Poor Charlie, we went out like a gangster though! I will give you this much assurance that if we see Patchy/Malikai walking around fine and dandy then you better believe Charlie is still alive too. Just think of what Penny would have said had Desmond been the one at the screen. She would have spilled the beans on everything she knows right then and there but instead she got some british guy. She is going to be a very big key as to knowing what is going on with this island. The guy who plays the role of her father is a rich arrogant asshole in everything I’ve ever seen him in so you know there is something sinister behind Mr. Widmore.
And so now the long wait begins. At least until the DVD comes out with a mystery bonus disc that will “tie us over” until season 4 premieres! And of course theres the Lost video game which who the hell knows when that is coming out. Maybe we will all get lucky and go to bed some night and wake up next February. I wonder is they make pills for that? I mean seriously what am I supposed to watch this summer? A bunch of stupid over budgeted blockbuster movies??? BAAHHH!!! Thats me acting like a sheep because yes thanks to season finales what else am I supposed to do for eight months??? Go outside and enjoy the sun??? YEAH RIGHT!!! I guess I’ll just have to sit and wait for Prison Break to come back on. I’m not sure when season 3 premieres but it sure as shit better not be eight months from now!!!
Comment by Tyler C — May 24, 2007 @ 9:01 am
WHY I THINK CHARLY DIDN’T SAVE HIMSELF……
THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE………
I’ve heard many people ask why Charly shut the door from the inside?, Why didn’t Desmond help Charly?, Why didn’t Charly try to swim up through the port hole?
This is what I think: If you’ll remember the episode when they first found Naomi, Des’ vision actually showed him it was supposed to be Penny in the parachute, but when it wasn’t, viewers were led to beleive that events in Des’ visions had to happen exactly the same in reality as they do in visions, or the outcome is altered… so:
Charly-arrow in the throat=Naomi instead of Penny. So we can assume that Charly beleived the only way for Des’ vision to remain accurate was for him to let himself drown, otherwise Claire and the baby may not be rescued. Let me know what you think.
Also I studied the news clip Jack had. 46″ HD and I still couldn’t decipher the whole thing…from what I could read the person dead (I think it was a man but Jack’s reaction also makes me wonder if it’s Juliette)
has a Name that starts with J-(a or o), and is from New York. What I read made me think it was an act of heroism…more later after I’ve had more time to decipher. But who else on the Island could it be, John Locke, Jacob?
When I get home from work I’ll post exactly what I’ve been able to decipher…It’s wierd because it’s half of the article. (the screewn split because of a crease on the newspaper, and the left and right side came into focus on seperate screewnshots) I really need to view a clip in a format that will allow me to progress frame by frame.
Comment by Jeremy — May 24, 2007 @ 9:01 am
to whoever made the statement about lost being “in syndicated television”…..it is not in syndication it is merely on broadcast television. even if lost was in syndication, that has nothing to do with censorship.
Comment by mbloom — May 24, 2007 @ 9:02 am
How could the dead guy be ben, honestly. Why would ben of all people leave the island, you guys need to use your heads. and why would jack want to jump of a bridge when ben died, thats just rediculous. Its going to be someone who dies as a direct action from jack, im thinking roses cancer came back, jack really cared about rose and she trusted him with some really heavy stuff on many occasions, and if he was responsible for her death, by taking her off the island, i think he would be devastated, i think a few people who left will have some bad things happen to them, they werent meant to leave that island!
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:10 am
I think the island ages you without actually doing so… as Ben said “if they come, we all die”, meaning that the Others who haven’t aged, if they go off the island, their age will catch up with them, as it might have happened to jack (the beard?) and like walt… so since the Others have been there for a good while, if they leave, they will die because of becoming too old to live (like maybe 120, who knows)
Comment by Josh — May 24, 2007 @ 9:14 am
Jeremy! you said it “has a Name that starts with J-(a or o), and is from New York.”
Rose was from the bronx! the funeral home was in a black neighbourhood, im not being racist, the only people shown there were black, even the priest, who was holding ROSES! i dont care if its a j! lol im sticking with my theory!
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:14 am
time loop. totally.
didn’t the writers say that these last jack-centric flashes would explain why he does what he does on the island and the episode? and didn’t they say the jewlry lady time travels?
if so then what we saw is why jack made the call to be rescued..why he called locke’s bluff about shooting him, why lockes ays “you’re not supposed to do this”, why he let ben shoot the three on the beach. jack has done this before and he knows it, if only a little bit. i think this is jack’s mulligan b/c the flash BACK we saw is the terrible FUTURE that awaits, that happened, if jack doesn’t fix it. maybe people die, like rose, or maybe something terrible happens to sun b/c she got pregnant ON the island, or claire’s baby becomes evil, or hurley dies b/c the numbers curse comes back, etc etc.
locke’s response of “you’re not supposed to do this” echoes what the jewelry lady said to desmond about buying the ring. there is an awful lot about time travel, premonitions, karma, destiny forshawdowings by psychics on babies and plane crashes, connections ala down the rabbit hole (movie about quantum physics and spirituality ) etc. i think that is why locke is the central hero. ben can “See dead people” (that’s why richard was so interested in young ben, he saw his dead mother which is why he can see jacob and no one else…richard needed ben) but locke is tied into the destiny aspect of the island which is the balance needed to understand what’s going on and why ben is so threatened.
i also like the idea that jack took the two stones from the “adam and eve” in the cave and that he will bring them back since he and katie will turn out to be those bodies..it’s cool to think about that.
i think there are time travelers and immortals, that not everyone is aware or part of it….b/c there is the whole walt thing…
i also thought maybe it was walt’s funeral no one went to but now i just think it’s someone we have yet to meet.
anyway, does this sound true? it’s a little jumbled, i know
Comment by lostopedia — May 24, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Also… A Vigorous “WAG OF MY FINGER” to Bernard, who practically switches sides at the end. psshhhhh. You Suck.
Comment by Jeremy — May 24, 2007 @ 9:20 am
Josh, i like that theory alot. Im interested to see claires baby. And if walt was a vision maybe that was a clue to locke about the island being in a different time, or when the hatch emploded it shifted time, and desmonds flash of the past, was actually happening at the same time, the island went back about a year, and is still moving slower than the rest of the world. So when jack and whoever else gets back, time is all messed up, either that or just cetching up to the island time. So they dont have much time left to go back and fix things, and prevent all the crazy horrible messed stuff taht is happening to them, that was never suuposed to happen, because they were never meant to leave, and now they have a chance to change the furture! ooo! cool!
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:21 am
1. It’s a flash forward
2. It’s either sawyer or someone we haven’t met yet in the coffin
3. Kate has to get back to either Saywer or her son
4. Seriously Ben could have given Jack better reasons to make the phone call
5. And double seriously, what a lame way for charlie and mikhail to die. I assume it had more to do with the end of a contract. a) charlie could have closed the door from the outside, at least long enough for him and des to dive out and swim to the surface, he could have swam through the big hole the grenade made. b) What is mikhail thinking??? The island already brought him back from ‘near death’ He’s just got a little spear through the heart, ‘it’s just a scratch’. Why not try to take out both desmond and charlie? this is the biggest WTF????!?!?! of the episode.
Comment by drakoi — May 24, 2007 @ 9:22 am
lostopedia, I love your theory!
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:23 am
I think that they are going to play it like last seasons finale, when we see the losties again next season, the rescue will not happen, because as lindelof said in the answers episode “they cant get of the island, there would be no show”, and as everyone knows they are going to change the show from flashbacks to flashforwards, and with that in mind remember that if they went to the future jack and kate, we still dont know if thats as far as they go, I mean, they have started a new timeline into the future that will probablly continue towards something important…. maybe the last episode of the show is everyone getting rescued at the same time we see a flashforward of them getting back to the island
Comment by bestiapeluda38 — May 24, 2007 @ 9:23 am
I think that they are going to play it like last seasons finale, when we see the losties again next season, the rescue will not happen, because as lindelof said in the answers episode “they cant get of the island, there would be no show”, and as everyone knows they are going to change the show from flashbacks to flashforwards, and with that in mind remember that if they went to the future jack and kate, we still dont know if thats as far as they go, I mean, they have started a new timeline into the future that will probablly continue towards something important…. maybe the last episode of the show is everyone getting rescued at the same time we see a flashforward of them getting back to the island
Comment by bestiapeluda38 — May 24, 2007 @ 9:24 am
THE MAN IN THE COFFIN IS MICHAEL.
My current theory (and please forgive me if this mirrors previous comments, there are a lot to go through) follows …
1. The dead man was from NY, just like Michael.
2. He was found dead in a loft — perhaps in an artist’s loft, as that was Michael’s true calling.
3. The funeral was in a predominately African-American neighborhood (not that white people wouldn’t live there, but it seemed to be a hint of some sort)
“Jeremy” is the fake name Michael adopted after escaping the island. After all, he had to go into hiding — otherwise, people might recognize him as a survivor of Flight 815, discover the island and find out what Michael had done to rescue Walt. He took on a fake name, took a menial job (doorman), and disappeared in a poor neighborhood of L.A. No one came to the funeral because he has no family left — remember his time in the hospital during season 1, he was completely alone for months — and I’m sure Walt grew to hate him over time and abandoned him, too.
Kate wouldn’t go to the funeral, of course, because she saw him drive his boat away from the island and leave the other castaways for dead. Jack would, however, because he still feels responssible for everything that happened on the island — he has a “hero” complex that he just can’t shake.
Okay, that’s it for me. And I loved the ep, by the way.
Comment by jenndavo — May 24, 2007 @ 9:24 am
as lindelof said in the answers episode “they cant get of the island, there would be no show” hes was obviously joking around knowing what we would see in the finale, hes a smart man obviously, you gotta read between the lines sometimes. I knew that when he said that he meant that they would get off the island, and the show would go on, and be awesome as ever. WHICH IT IS! i absolutly loved that episode, and am really happy with where this is going, its the most interesting story line they could have gone with, it is open to so much speculation.
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:27 am
jenndavo, i think it could be micheal too, that was really convincing! ok my theory is now either rose, or micheal.
i love discussing this.
Comment by Jess — May 24, 2007 @ 9:30 am
Will Jack “go back” as in go back IN TIME?!
Comment by radnac — May 24, 2007 @ 9:37 am
How about J…..ntham being the “mysterious waving figure” from the Lost Conections on the Season 2 bonus disk?
Comment by hardy — May 24, 2007 @ 9:37 am
When the others let Michael and Walt go Ben gave coordinates and said their would be an freight liner that will pick them up. I think it’s the same boat that Naomi is from 80 miles off shore.
Comment by Mike — May 24, 2007 @ 9:43 am
everyone go read Wayne’s prediction a few comments up. if i had to put my money on an over-all hero story arc with jack, that would be it. i’m sure there are holes, but it could really work.
Flashforwards are a terrific idea. We get to see the consequences of leaving the island. Apparently they are not good. Maybe the island is so all-powerful that when one leaves, they become weak. We should definately get ready for some “dark territory” with season 4.
Comment by Nick — May 24, 2007 @ 9:52 am
everyone go read Wayne’s prediction a few comments up. if i had to put my money on an over-all hero story arc with jack, that would be it. i’m sure there are holes, but it could really work.
Flashforwards are a terrific idea. We get to see the consequences of leaving the island. Apparently they are not good. Maybe the island is so all-powerful that when one leaves, they become weak. We should definately get ready for some “dark territory” with season 4.
Comment by Nick — May 24, 2007 @ 9:55 am
Couple of thoughts:
1)The flash forwards:
- Jack is clearly in the future (or at least the present) as there has never been a cellphone like the one he was using, until the last 12 months of current time. I work in the cellular industry, and I got annoyed looks from the people watching with me when early on I yelled out, “Hey, this can’t be the past, that phone is too new!”
- Jack has been living a depressed/alcoholic/drug-addicted life for a while. The full grown beard is indicative of a person who has stopped caring about maintaining appearances, as does the badly littered mess in his apartment … that didn’t happen overnight. His behavior throughout the flash forward is consistant with that condition, and when he meets with Kate at the end, she definitely is looking at him with pity. Her attitude and reluctance to meet him indicate she has seen him like this for a while.
- Alcoholics routinely remember/believe things to be that are not so. His dad is dead … stone cold, we’ve seen the body. We’ve seen the island keep people alive, but never bring anyone back from the dead. When he makes the comment about his dad being drunker, there’s only one reason for the look of pity that the other doctor gives him. It is the look you give someone when they are so far lost in the bottle that they no longer have a grip on reality. Christian is dead … let it go.
- Which also suggests that much of what Jack says or does in the flash forward is very unreliable. I would not assume much about his comments about needing to go back and fix it.
- His comment about the golden ticket is intriguing however, and suggests a settlement from the airline. A payment in agreement for what, secrecy? Would such a deal require some people to live under aliases (Jeremy Bentham)?
2) The game changer:
- I’m not entirely sure that the game changer is that the people on the freighter might be the new bad guys. Or that we’re going to start seeing flash forwards instead of flash backs. But it could be the fact that it now appears certain that at least some of our castaways do get off the island in the future.
3) Character analysis:
- I believe that a dynamic has changed. We’ve seen four major characters for the good guys get increasingly dark, tortured and twisted over that most recent episodes: Locke, Sawyer, Jack and Desmond. Let’s take a count of what each side did last night.
THE OTHERS
1) One group failed in their attempt to assault and kidnap/murder the beachies.
2) One chick beat the crap out of Charlie.
3) Mikhail committed suicide (probably) after being mortally wounded (probably) to take Charlie out and flood the Looking Glass.
net result - 1 assault and 1 murder.
THE BEACHIES
1) Seven Other’s killed by the dynamite in the tents thanks to Sayid and Jin’s marksmanship.
Sawyer did kill Tom!
2) One Other killed by Hurley driving the Van ‘O Doom.
3) One Other killed by Sayid’s leg lock of death.
4) One Other mortally woulded (probably) by Desmond (ala speargun).
5) Ben pummeled to a bloody mess by Jack.
6) Naomi mortally wounded (probably - not certain she’s dead yet) by Locke.
7) Jack threatened to kill Tom.
net result - 1 assault, 10-12 murders and 1 death threat.
I’m trying to remind myself who the good guys are again. Oh, I understand our heroes have been backed into a corner. But I am a bit disturbed by how easy they are finding it to kill people.
- How many people are now in the killer club? Since revelations in season one, I have been counting how many of our castaways had commited murder in the past. The list of innocent people is rapidly shrinking. Last night Hurley and Locke dropped off of that list. How many major characters have not killed someone? Claire? And what about Gin? I only ask as I have been keeping tabs on people’s relative innocence or guilt since early theories about this being hell or pergatory started becoming popular.
- Ben is still alive but seems very disempowered. Will Richard take over the remains of The Others? Will they stop being a threat? What if the people on the frieghter really are some kind of threat? Could we see a Beachies/Others alliance?
——————–
Good episode and it worked well in the 2 hour format, but damn all those commercials! Also, I don’t really think it answered all that many questions, but I enjoyed it none the less.
And I guess this pretty much cinches it that they can’t kill off Jack or Kate.
Comment by Blanetalk — May 24, 2007 @ 10:03 am
My current theory:
It was Ben in the casket. Jack is willing to kill himself because he thought Ben was his best way to find out how to get back to the island and without the island his life becomes pointless. Jack has discovered since returning that the island is important in the overall salvation of mankind (creating a utopian society alluded to by all the philosopher names) and that Ben was acting to protect the island. We find out that to Ben, the ends justified the means: killing so many people was necessary to achieve the goals that the experiments and mysteries of the island will make possible. Ben and the people that Richard represents believed that the Dharma Initiative people were too idealistic about achieving the goals via peaceful means and that greater expediency was necessary to advance the potential of the island. Jack doesn’t agree with Ben’s means but believes that he (Jack) can be the one to help humanity by tapping into the island’s potential without sacrificing morality. Jack ultimately gets back to the island and it is ultimately revealed that the island is a conduit through which human survivors of some great apocalyptic event in the future are trying to influence past events. These future humans cannot travel back themselves but use their advanced technology (including smokey and messages through “Jacob”) to try to change history. Some people in the present have discovered this and have been trying to exploit the island for profit. Ben has worked with these people to exploit them for their resources but has also kept them at bay because he better understands the island then they do. Because of Jack’s call, they’re able to remove Ben as the middleman and in the time that they’ve removed Ben and the 815 survivors they have been working to exploit the island further. They have not been successful which is why they bring Jack and some of the other survivors back but Locke has been hiding out and he joins with the survivors to thwart the evil profiteers and bring about the changes that the future humans need to save humanity and build the utopian vision that the island was meant to fufill.
Ok that’s it for me until next season. Can’t wait to see how wrong I am!
Comment by Kevbot — May 24, 2007 @ 10:06 am
The most entertaining 2 hours of TV I have ever seen, bar none.
I’d just like to address the crowd that is screaming that the finale sucked and that they’re going to stop watching the show.
First of all, if rants like this are all you have to contribute, why bother wasting your time? Just turn the channel to American Idol where you can get all the ‘answers’ you’ll ever want. It’s almost like you want to use your negativity to bring us down from loving the show. “Oh, please, please, don’t stop watching the show–for the love of Jacob, just give it a chance! It just won’t be the same if you stop watching it, waaaaaah!” Haha, good luck with that. If you want to give up on the show, PLEASE DO–this way I can be guaranteed that I won’t have to read your pointless drivel on the internet next season.
Second of all, this discussion is pointless because you know as well as I do that in 8 months from now you’ll be tuning in for the premier of season 4 just like the rest of us. Be honest with yourself.
Comment by dharmabum — May 24, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Couple of thoughts:
1)The flash forwards:
- Jack is clearly in the future (or at least the present) as there has never been a cellphone like the one he was using, until the last 12 months of current time. I work in the cellular industry, and I got annoyed looks from the people watching with me when early on I yelled out, “Hey, this can’t be the past, that phone is too new!”
- Jack has been living a depressed/alcoholic/drug-addicted life for a while. The full grown beard is indicative of a person who has stopped caring about maintaining appearances, as does the badly littered mess in his apartment … that didn’t happen overnight. His behavior throughout the flash forward is consistant with that condition, and when he meets with Kate at the end, she definitely is looking at him with pity. Her attitude and reluctance to meet him indicate she has seen him like this for a while.
- Alcoholics routinely remember/believe things to be that are not so. His dad is dead … stone cold, we’ve seen the body. We’ve seen the island keep people alive, but never bring anyone back from the dead. When he makes the comment about his dad being drunker, there’s only one reason for the look of pity that the other doctor gives him. It is the look you give someone when they are so far lost in the bottle that they no longer have a grip on reality. Christian is dead … let it go.
- Which also suggests that much of what Jack says or does in the flash forward is very unreliable. I would not assume much about his comments about needing to go back and fix it.
- His comment about the golden ticket is intriguing however, and suggests a settlement from the airline. A payment in agreement for what, secrecy? Would such a deal require some people to live under aliases (Jeremy Bentham)?
2) The game changer:
- I’m not entirely sure that the game changer is that the people on the freighter might be the new bad guys. Or that we’re going to start seeing flash forwards instead of flash backs. But it could be the fact that it now appears certain that at least some of our castaways do get off the island in the future.
3) Character analysis:
- I believe that a dynamic has changed. We’ve seen four major characters for the good guys get increasingly dark, tortured and twisted over that most recent episodes: Locke, Sawyer, Jack and Desmond. Let’s take a count of what each side did last night.
THE OTHERS
1) One group failed in their attempt to assault and kidnap/murder the beachies.
2) One chick beat the crap out of Charlie.
3) Mikhail committed suicide (probably) after being mortally wounded (probably) to take Charlie out and flood the Looking Glass.
net result - 1 assault and 1 murder.
THE BEACHIES
1) Seven Other’s killed by the dynamite in the tents thanks to Sayid and Jin’s marksmanship.
Sawyer did kill Tom!
2) One Other killed by Hurley driving the Van ‘O Doom.
3) One Other killed by Sayid’s leg lock of death.
4) One Other mortally woulded (probably) by Desmond (ala speargun).
5) Ben pummeled to a bloody mess by Jack.
6) Naomi mortally wounded (probably - not certain she’s dead yet) by Locke.
7) Jack threatened to kill Tom.
net result - 1 assault, 10-12 murders and 1 death threat.
I’m trying to remind myself who the good guys are again. Oh, I understand our heroes have been backed into a corner. But I am a bit disturbed by how easy they are finding it to kill people.
- How many people are now in the killer club? Since revelations in season one, I have been counting how many of our castaways had commited murder in the past. The list of innocent people is rapidly shrinking. Last night Hurley and Locke dropped off of that list. How many major characters have not killed someone? Claire? And what about Gin? I only ask as I have been keeping tabs on people’s relative innocence or guilt since early theories about this being hell or pergatory started becoming popular.
- Ben is still alive but seems very disempowered. Will Richard take over the remains of The Others? Will they stop being a threat? What if the people on the frieghter really are some kind of threat? Could we see a Beachies/Others alliance?
——————–
Good episode and it worked well in the 2 hour format, but damn all those commercials! Also, I don’t really think it answered all that many questions, but I enjoyed it none the less.
And I guess this pretty much cinches it that they can’t kill off Jack or Kate.
Comment by Blanetalk — May 24, 2007 @ 10:11 am
The most entertaining 2 hours of TV I have ever seen, bar none.
I’d just like to address the crowd that is screaming that the finale sucked and that they’re going to stop watching the show.
First of all, if rants like this are all you have to contribute, why bother wasting your time? Just turn the channel to American Idol where you can get all the ‘answers’ you’ll ever want. It’s almost like you want to use your negativity to bring us down from loving the show, and we’re supposed to be disappointed that you think it sucks, like “Oh, please, please, don’t stop watching the show–for the love of Jacob, just give it a chance! It just won’t be the same if you stop watching it, waaaaaah!” Haha, good luck with your campaign, let me know how you make out. If you want to give up on the show, PLEASE DO–this way I can be guaranteed that I won’t have to read your pointless drivel on the internet next season.
Second of all, this discussion is pointless because you know as well as I do that in 8 months from now you’ll be tuning in for the premier of season 4 just like the rest of us. Be honest with yourself.
Comment by dharmabum — May 24, 2007 @ 10:24 am
no one has mentioned that the code charlie types in goes directly to penny widmore at her father’s company.
it is obvious that widmore has something to do with this now. remember, she says “how did you get this frequency?” she has been trying it for a long time.
how did we know naomi was not working for penny? are we just guessing? the writers left plenty of clues otherwise…book in portugese, copy of the only picture of penny and des.
why isn’t the boat from widmore and not penny. like her dad wants to keep des there. perhaps naomi was sent to kill them all like ben suggested.
i think only a handful of people got off the island. jack needs to go back to get them all off or he realizes ben is right. he has no life to return to (grass is always greener) and realizes the island was better.
my two cents.
Comment by badlands23 — May 24, 2007 @ 10:38 am
I rewatched the show and Jack answered the “friend or family” question with “either”.
Comment by Thrill — May 24, 2007 @ 10:53 am
Did anybody else see Jin and Sun sitting down on the plane in the background of the opening scene. Let me know if i’m the only one.
Comment by Thrill — May 24, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Since everyone is pitching, I have to jump in.
I didn’t see anyone mention the angle of Jack wanting back on the island so I agree that BEN is in the coffin.
1. “Neither” comment
2. Kate disagreement with going
3. Jack’s disappointment with the obit that he wanted to commit suicide right after leaving him without true means to be connected with the island.
Technically the last one makes the Jo…an obit thing make Locke more likely. But, one person would have shown. The girlfriend, the son, Hurley…regardless of all Locke did, he had friends. Brings me back to Ben.
Big question is why Jack is how he is after the fact. I think this leans on Juliet dying among a small list of other things.
Comment by Tv Miller — May 24, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Did anybody else see Jin and Sun sitting down on the plane in the background of the opening scene. Let me know if i’m the only one.
Comment by Thrill — May 24, 2007 @ 11:01 am
One other thing that still bothers me more than the rest of the new events all season is HOW DID THEY GET OUT OF THE HATCH? Is Mihkail one of the “immortals” and had something to do with it blowing up and them getting out? Desmond was nude, Charlie forgot, et cetera. Ben was pretty disinterested with the weird explosion and noise while on the pier making me think it was an order. They better not Libby this part of the story because Eko is dead and can get away with it.
Comment by Tv Miller — May 24, 2007 @ 11:05 am
I just thought of something. Why did the hostiles/others/Dharma not do something about Danielle’s distress signal?? They could have easily turned it off years ago!
Comment by Pete — May 24, 2007 @ 11:08 am
anybody notice that the last name Bentham.. includes the name “BEN”.. could just be a coincidence.. who knows?
Comment by LORI — May 24, 2007 @ 11:20 am
anybody notice that the last name Bentham.. includes the name “BEN”.. could just be a coincidence.. who knows?
Comment by LORI — May 24, 2007 @ 11:20 am
i need to know if anyone say the hurley bird in the finale.
it’s shown up ONLY twice and only in finales. was it in this one?
Comment by hurleybird — May 24, 2007 @ 11:27 am
As much as I’d like it to be. It can’t be time travel. In every time travel scenario that I’ve seen on film or tV the characters had some sort of capability to move in time. They were always aware that they were Time traveling. If they knew there would be some kind of character realization (a deja vu of sorts)
Question- Whatever happemed to “You’re in a coma?”
Could it be Eko’s funeral. I had that aura of Eko when jack entered the funeral. maybe the character comes back..i don’t know.
Observation/theory
When Ben first met Richard, Richard was not dressed modern day but somewhat tribal. Richard knows about the temple. He knows that the island holds power. He has somekind of power himself (When he tells Juliette she can have all that she needs for the research and the power he had over the bus)Maybe he thought Ben was somekind of god or something and whne Locke came along ,saw differently and questioned ben’s authority/power. Ben is threatened by this and when John failed to kill his father, he faces the crowd somewhat relieved and says “He wasnt who we thought he was.”
I’m a newbie sort of I posted once before about Christian Shepherd being Jacob.
Lot’s of biblical hints there Christian Shepherd is someone who leads a flock (congregation of believers)
Go easy on me I’m new
Comment by Debbie — May 24, 2007 @ 11:40 am
They DID reveal a secret Jack has been holding back for a long time… he is in LOVE with Kate!
Also, what’s your definition of game-changer… mine is something crazy that I never expected and completely blows my mind. (I obviously didn’t get spoiled to the season finale.)
Comment by DesmondRules — May 24, 2007 @ 11:47 am
They DID reveal a secret Jack has been holding back for a long time… he is in LOVE with Kate!
Also, what’s your definition of game-changer… mine is something crazy that I never expected and completely blows my mind. (I obviously didn’t get spoiled to the season finale.)
Comment by DesmondRules — May 24, 2007 @ 11:53 am
We are so obsessed that they are flash-fowards, could the flashfowards be Jack’s mind thinking what the future will hold if he makes certain decisions in the season finale? Most likely not, just food for thought…
About Jack sick of lying….Maybe when they got rescued they couldn’t tell the truth of what happened to them on the island(leaving certain people behind, the deaths that occured on the island) if they told the truth they would all be put in an insane asylum or infact arrested. Jack needs to fix things. He wants to fix the way things went down.
The whole theory of Time-Lost, etc. As we known desmond sees flashes of the future. What if everything happens the way it does, and as different decisions are made, changes occur. Desmond is the key to it all. Finally as it all come sfull circle, maybe Desmond doesn’t forget to punch in the numbers and the plane doesn’t crash. But everyone remebers waht happened in their mind. they remeber everything(like Desmond does) but in reality it never happened.
or
With the future, they make different choices and have to keep secrets from the real world but some were left behind to do so. Kate gets a freash start and a happy life. Jack’s life takes a turn for the worst.
Comment by HEATH — May 24, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that the voice on the phone sounded a lot like sawywe, “Hell yea.”
More questions
If we are going by the time travel theory perhaps Jack wasn’t committing suicide but leaping into another time warp which is why he said, “Forgive me.”
Comment by Debbie — May 24, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
ok - please tell me I’m retarded.
Could the guy in the casket be Sawyer? And the reason Jack was so upset was because he and Sawyer became gay lovers? This could be why Kate, when asked why she didn’t go to the viewing said “why would I”. And when Sawyer asked Juliet, “have you slept with Jack yet” she replied “have you”.
I hope this is not the case, but could it be?
Comment by RichardWeed — May 24, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
What I could decipher from the newspaper clipping, the lower left portion was obstructed because as much as I tried I couldn’t get my DVR to stop exactly where I wanted it to; there were times when i would rewind then hit play, and for a split second the screen would be right where I needed it, but I couldn’t stop…very frustrating if anyone has a clearer screenshot, post it… I dont have a capture card for my hd dvr yet or I’d post what I had…
anything that isn’t in parenthises or followed or preceded by question marks:
Los Angeles (Times?)
Man Found (?–)
The body of J(a,o?- -?)ntham of
New York was f(ound?)(?shor)tly after 4
A.M. in the ? ? ? ? ? ? of Grand
A(venue? or arena?)
Left ????????????????????? at the
Side ???????????????(?cour)tyard loud
Unreadable ????????? (?–)m’s loft
Sorry ?????????????? (?sa)fety; he
????????????????????(?disc)overed the
????????????????????a b(eacon or better?) in the
REST IS UNREADABLE
Comment by Jeremy — May 24, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
If Jack and Kate are in the present at the end, then everything we’ve seen would have been a flashback based on Jack’s decission to call the freighter. In the future we may see Jack get back to the island and make things right…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 24, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
there was a scene in the hospital,
where they accused jack for drinking
and he said:
“call my father from the lower floor, and if I am more drunk then he is you can fire me.”
this is why i don’t think this is the future,
this is some kind of alternate reality.
Comment by KatzMan — May 24, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
i just had a thought. a rather beer filled thought. but could the person in the casket be juliett. He needs to go back. he feels guilty. im sorry im an idiot
Comment by kida_a — May 24, 2007 @ 1:01 pm
OK, listen up. I am only going to say this once today):
1.) It is Sawyer’s Funeral… JAck never liked him and only went to see if anyone else (Kate) showed up.
2.) The “he” Kate needed to get back to was either her son or Hurley. Hurley changed everything when he became the “Hero” and two things… Kate driving a Volvo (soccer mom ish and a car Hurley can afford) and her area code was from the Upper scale neighborhoods of LA (he still has his $150,000,000.00)
3.) Did I hear Jake call Kate, “Annie” when he left her a message?
4.) The unknow woman and her son either Claire and Erin or Juliete’s sister and her son.
5.) Jack’s father is dead. Never actually seen him, anytime someone mentioned him Jack either ran or they confronted Jack about his problems. Which all mirror his father. If Jack would have done the operation, she would have been as good as dead (just like dad).
6.) Who was it that kept missing the dynomite, the actual “heavy” Jin. He is not a killer, he is a fisherman.
7.) Jack saying he wants to stop all the lieing. What really happened on the Island must stay on the Island. That is why someone killed Sawyer (someone with a copy of the news article has a witness saying there way a struggle.
Comment by BrightGuy — May 24, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
Charlie definitely wasn’t in the process of writing Scentless Apprentice by Nirvana.
Great episode, great cliffhanger, lots of people moaning over nothing. This TV show is nothing short of mesmerising.
Comment by Edward — May 24, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
saywer and saied are bad ass by the way. balls to the wall.bad ass. beer+lost finale = GOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!
Comment by kid_a — May 24, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
Jack’s father is dead. The pharmacist threatens to call him and Jack freaks and runs. Jack says to the young doctor, “call my father from the lower floor, and if I am more drunk then he is you can fire me.” And then barks at the young doctor “don’t look at me that way!”
Its obvious the younger doctor knows Jack’s father is dead and was apparently looking at Jack as if to say “I know your father is dead and you’re fucking crazy!”
Comment by RichardWeed — May 24, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Also, someone (don’t feel like looking for name) posted above:
“It was Ben in the casket. Jack is willing to kill himself because he thought Ben was his best way to find out how to get back to the island and without the island his life becomes pointless.”
Brilliant! It is no coincidence that Jack’s last name is Shepherd. A Shepherd who has lost his flock has no reason to live.
Comment by RichardWeed — May 24, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Remember how upset Jack gets when he learns of the death of the guy?
He wouldn’t that upset over someone who hasn’t even been on the show yet.
Neither friend nor family.
Jeremy BENtham-what Ben changes his name to back in society.
Jack tells Kate they need to go back to the island but who knows how to get back other than BEN…..hence that is why Jack is upset that he’s dead because he was their hope in getting back to the island.
Comment by ocsurf — May 24, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
about the couple on the plane at the beginning: it was definitely an Asian couple … but I wouldn’t swear it was Sun and Jin…
just started a series of posts on Lost New Questions … 1. How Far in the Future was the action in LA last night?…
Comment by Paul Levinson — May 24, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
OK … I read through most of these and felt I had to comment.
1) Charlie closed himself in because Desmond told him that he had to die if Clair and the baby were to be rescused…he had to die so he closed himself in.
2) Jack and Kate (and the rest of them) could have come back at a differnt time (past)… I would say after Jack saved Sarah…but before his father died. This would account for the father being alive… Jack being a hero twice over (sarah being the first time) and Kate not being on the run because she hasnt done bad yet.
I have more but just realized im late for a meeting
Comment by lbgrob — May 24, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Here’s a cool link that shows flight paths for anyone interested where they may be.
http://gc.kls2.com/
Comment by ocsurf — May 24, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Many sources have revealed that the name in the newspaper was Jeremy Bentham. The J was not short for John Locke or James Ford and Bentham has no reference to Benjamin. It might be a character we haven’t met yet, but one thing is for certain: it’s another philosophy reference.
And, contrary to many posts here, it’s not just 3 references to philosophers (John Locke, Rousseau and Jeremy Bentham) - there are MANY more: Desmond David Hume, Edmund Burke (Juliet’s ex-husband), Mikhail Bakunin, and Anthony Cooper. (More interestingly, all but Hume were primarily social & political philosophers who had different theories about just political governments and societies that rested on assumptions about what people would be like in a state of nature.) Also, philosophers Boone/Shannon Carlyle and Sayid Jarrah are probably referring to Thomas Carlyle (a 19th C. Scottish political philosopher who wrote about the psychological struggles of “heroes”) and Edward Said (pronounced sai-yeed) (a Palestianian-American literary theorist who termed “The Other” as that which we cannot comprehend, particularly with regard to foreign cultures. Source:Lostpedia)
Check out Lostpedia’s entry on Philosophy for more detail:
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Philosophy
Comment by hanto — May 24, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
Bravo…bravo. It’s good to be a fan of Jack again.
Thinking out loud…
Could Kate have been needing to get back so a parole officer or the like wouldn’t be looking for her? But that couldn’t be right, since she was also given a “golden ticket” per Jack’s comment about using the golden ticket “they gave us.”
Kate wouldn’t hook up with Hurley. Maybe there’s some crazy bargain that allows certain people off the island. Maybe Dharma. From the sound of it, (someone’s post earlier noted Kate’s area code value) Jack & Kate both have some comfort. He apparently doesn’t do much work if he flies off every weekend to Singapore, etc. Maybe they get hooked up but enslaved to their new freedom off the island.
Walt & Micheal will be back in Season 4. Who cares?!
Christian Shepherd may still be alive…I think there’s got to be a way Jack & Claire find out they’re related & that would only happen through Christian.
I’m so excited for next season. Will definitely watch finale a few more times to observe what I missed.
Comment by lostlush — May 24, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
In response to someones earlier post…Jack was just spewing nonesense about getting his dad (depressed, on drugs..hello)…and he was a hero twice over because he got them off the island?!?!
Comment by Michele — May 24, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
I have been thinking long and hard after the amazing mindfuck that was last nights finale and I have come to the conclusion that the person in the coffin is definitely someone he haven’t seen yet, but have heard from. My guess is that it is the guy that was on Naomi’s phone, the guy on the ship that rescued them. I think that he rescued only some of the survivors, and then Jack realized that Ben was right all along about Naomi not being who she said she was. And that is why Jack wants to go back to the island, to save the rest of the people, including Ben. Take it for what it is, I could be WAAAAY wrong, but it sounds legit to me.
Comment by Kage530 — May 24, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Does anyone else think that the Black Creature has something to do with this? I think the creature did what it was doing to Locke at the very begging of Lost.
Comment by Sammy — May 24, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Jack was so upset after reading the clipping, that he broke down and cried after parking on the bridge and then just before he was going to jump he wispered ” don’t leave me” not “Forgive Me”. Tvo’s check it out, and Kate did not say “Why should I go to HIS funeral” she said why should I got to the funeral. Who could make Jack cry like that over leaving him?
Comment by john john — May 24, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
As for the question as to why the others needed a fertility expert it was probably because it has been too risky to keep bringing outsiders to help protect the island. Think about it. You can raise and indoctrinate the children into the island ways without the risk of having outsiders causing problems. Ironically, Juliet “an outsider” who was brought to help them solve the issue ended up causing huge betrayals that could have catastrophic consequences.
Comment by cypher_21a — May 24, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
John John,
Tivoed the jack jumping scene, and i have to disagree. I’m convinced he says “forgive me”
Comment by Dr. Nope — May 24, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
Regarding the name in the paper. I just read an interview where Lindelof says it is “False” that Jacob has been cast. I don’t know why, but this made me think about other major characters that we haven’t even been introduced to. When I saw the name that equates to something like J….ntham, maybe this is the name of a character that we haven’t met yet. Someone who Jack didn’t consider family or friend, but whose death moved him to tears. Maybe this person convinced Jack that he had to return to the Island to make things right. Apologies to anyone who has already posted this, but I did my best to scan all the posts.
Comment by Higdon — May 24, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Why hasn’t anyone asked this question yet???!
If keeping the survivors on the island is so important for Ben, why did he go alone (almost alone) to stop Jack and co? And why didn’t he convince Jack with stronger reasons?!
Oh and… I think it was Locke’s funeral, and Kate hooked up with Ben somehow. Just a thought.
Comment by dja — May 24, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
This may be a bit off topic for most … but no one seems to have commented on that till now, and those prop errors drive me crazy.
The Looking Glas moon pool is an opening at the bottom side of the station, which means that the station inner air pressure is maintained at level high enough to prevent the sea water from entering through the pool.
Thus, after Michail having blown up the small window of the communications room, no water could have entered through the opening - the air pressure would have kept it out even more than it kept out the water at the pool opening located 5 or 6 feet below.
Instead, the air would have started to blow *out* of the broken window, and water would have risen through the pool until its level reached the window.
Thus no real reason for someone to drown here … okay, besides the fact that Charlie really knew that he had to drown to make the prophecied rescue of Claire and Aaron happen.
Comment by AndreasS — May 24, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
AndreasS, damn fine point. I even tried that with a styro foam cup held under bath water. Poked a hole in the side and air came out. Water filled from the bottom. It filled only to the point of the hole. There would have been air still in the room and air in the station if he never shut the door. Plenty of opportunity to escape.
I would say that was an oversight.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 24, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
This is a perfect link of close up of the newspaper clip Jack ripped out of the paper. it seems to me it may be Jacob or a new character we will be introduced to soon.
http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d4/Newspaperclipping2.jpg
love hdtv!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by buckets2007 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
The newspaper that Jack tears the article out of can be seen on the seat next to him. It is the April 5, 2007 edition of the LA Times. This shows the flashes to be after the 2004 crash.
I think the pilot episode from the first season IS jack being sent back to the island to redo it and get it right. Maybe they damaged the island in the process of leaving it or by allowing Naomi’s people to find it. The island needs things to be fixed, so it pulls them all back to relive it until they get it right.
In this timeline, Christian is still alive and Kate has not killed her father.
But in the pilot episode, Jack is sent back to redo it, but the timeline is changed. Kate DID kill her father and Christian is dead.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the season started next year with them leaving the island in the first few episodes. But in that process, bad things happen to the island and to some of our characters. Then 3 or 4 shows into the season - Jack wakes up again in the jungle. Boone’s back, Shannon’s back, Charlie’s back, etc. Then we essentially rewatch the shows, but different things happen. No distinct memories of the things that happened the other time through, but some vague familiarities now and then.
(And I beg you all to stop saying Jack was not correct when he said his father was alive. In this timeline HE WAS. It would be useless to lie to a pharmacist - she’d know he had died. And if he was walking around talking about “go get my father” and everybody knows his father is dead - not only would Jack not be a doctor and have had his license pulled, they would probably institutionalize him along with Hurley and Libby. There is no “look” from the new chief of surgery. “oh that silly Jack! Talking about his dead father again.” No way! Uh uh! He was just pitying Jack at that moment.
In this episode/timeline Christian was alive!!
Comment by 7ate9 — May 24, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
I think that Naomi’s people work for Whitmore (sp?) and Whitmore is connected with several major world governments and is funded by ‘unlimited money’ so they have major resources available. I believe when they arrived and found Naomi dead they weren’t too happy.
Comment by lockefreak77 — May 24, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
WOW yes, IS Christian Shephard still alive? Thought about it all day. Didn’t think of the fact that Jack had current RX’s from dad. What I caught is, after being confronted with his RX addiction by new Doc @ hosp Jack suggested he call his father etc etc etc in . This finale was amazing! Enough fodder here to peruse til next season. Bravo!
Comment by desert_rose_53 — May 24, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
RE: above comment–Jack told new Dr to give his father a call sometime–speaking present tense in “flash forward” as if still alive & kicking. He looked awful though in that silly beard lol!
Comment by desert_rose_53 — May 24, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
Yes, I think we’ve been given hints that Widmore is looing for the island (Ben says “they are looking for the island.”) Widmore’s logo is on Henry Gale’s hot air balloon. Widmore was sponsoring, and has many times, a race around the world.
I am just beginning to wonder though… Are we absolutely certain that Penny WAS looking for Desmond? We saw the Arctic guys, we saw the blip on the computer, we saw them call Penny. But how do we really know for sure that it was because Penny is looking for Desmond? If she works for her father (Widmore) than maybe it is just her job to find the island. She had no idea Desmond was on it. But then when she spoke with Charlie, she realized Desmond was there. Possible?
Comment by 7ate9 — May 24, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
So here are my thoughts…after no replay on the episode….no ‘in depth’ look….
I think that the people who are rescued from the island have a ‘Final Destination’ plot, like the movie. Once they are rescued and return home, people start dying off…one by one.
Kate and Jack are the last 2 remaining survivors. This is why Jack was ready to kill himself and/or why he wanted himself and Kate to go back to the island so bad. Could also be the reason why he’s losing it, he probably lost Juliette, and couldn’t do nothing to save her. He could also feel responsible for bringing them back to the real world just to have them die off.
I also believe that it is Rose who was in the casket. In the last episode she said to Jack “Live together, Die Alone”. No one showed for the viewing. Possibly if Bernard was rescued as well, he past away before her.
Comment by Christina — May 24, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
Scratch my 2 comments above LOL hadn’t taken time to read thru previous 365 comments Mea Culpa! Bravo too to all great theorists and enquirers here. Boo to the moaners a naysayers. If ya don’t like the show change the channel! God Bless the Losties
Comment by desert_rose_53 — May 24, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Christina,
to clarify, rose said to jack, “if you say ‘live together, die alone’ i’m gonna punch you in the face” as in she didn’t wanna hear that motivational bs anymore.
Comment by Dr. Nope — May 24, 2007 @ 7:35 pm
don’t have time to read all the comments so sorry if this has already been said but….does anybody think that ben can see into the future? why he wasn’t so surprised to see the plane crashing, why he didn’t look surprised when locke showed up, how he knew (assumin he’s telling the truth) who naomi’s people are, jack’s flash forwards & ben knowing it was gonna suck for him off the island (assuming they were forwards). i’m absolutely convinced for now. tell me what u think!
Comment by dixierose — May 24, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
Most people are trying to decipher only the final episode and and are not looking at the broader picture. We know this: the time theory is not practical, they are indeed “future forwards” because the technology is that of the twenty first century, and not the 90’s, so the whole space-time plane theory is just trash! (a motororola in 1991?)
Here’s what we do know: we do know that there is something special about the island, it is NOT purgatory though. Walt keeps appearing, especially last season, and the black smoke still can’t be explain.
But what kind of shed light on the island was the existence of the polar bear, and the man who mysteriously appears to be the same age in comparison to Ben, 30+ years later (the guy with the black hair) How is this possible? and…
Why can John Walk? Pehaps the Island is a “fountain of youth” persay? The people who have been looking for this island are seeking to find an island where people, and animals live for long periods of time? but then, some might ask, well why has ben aged so much? well, first of all, he was older when he came to the island, and he must have left temporarily because he met the frenchwoman and impregnated her off the island: (a mother wouldn’t be able to conceive on an island, because the fetus wouldn’t develop and this perpetuously long pregnancy would result in the death of the mother and child.
As for the coffin, there is a lot of wiggle room, but would John, who practically worships the island, ever leave it?
So it isn’t John, but i agree with the comment that perhaps the people who are rescued start to die off, and perhaps Kate, who is married to Sawyer, and Jack are now the only remaining survivors, and maybe Ben is in the coffin, and now there is no way to know how to get back.
As for the Dharma Initiative, I know… its way back in the first season… maybe it was exploring this fountain of youth, and the real others, the people who Ben helps to exterminate dharma people, are really really old natives. I saw on a screenshot that the HANSO foundation tape had a slogan that involved lengthened lifetime, better health, and better mind, (or something like that)
So for all the skeptics, consider that the island is a pacific fountain of youth, like Pounce de Leon and other explorers spent decades trying to find.
Comment by dave — May 24, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Without reading all the lengthy comments, does anyone know what book was at the funeral on the table? It didn’t look like a Christian Bible. Notice there was no Christian cross either.
And, I’m sick of this Charlie could’ve escaped stuff — he wanted the vision of Claire and Aaron escaping to come to reality. Easy.
Comment by andy — May 24, 2007 @ 8:32 pm
Sorry, it’s long but I have a possibility about the Kate/Jack thing.
WHAT IF… Jack is the only one that has memory of what happened, or he is the only one that was sent back. He comes back (wakes up?) to find that, essentially the crash DID NOT HAPPEN. People he thinks he ‘knows’ are alive and don’t have the memories he does. He tries to convince everyone that this time on the island happened. But everyone thinks he’s nuts.
Maybe he seeks out Kate. Surely SHE, the one he loves and has a connection with, will know what the hell he’s talking about. Maybe he doesn’t want to freak her out right away so he softens her up with talk about how he knows stuff about her. And it intrigues her. Who is this guy? But then, he just starts to act nuts so she cuts him off. Yes, clearly he knows stuff about her so she’ll entertain a phone call from him if he sounds like he’s in trouble — and he is this time. He’s lieing by pretending he’s not nuts — fooling the shrinks etc. — but he can’t anymore.
That’s why she has no interest in going back to the island… BECAUSE NO ONE BUT JACK BELIEVES THERE IS AN ISLAND. He’s trying to prove it with all the maps and stuff. Her husband doesn’t want her seeing Jack anymore, but she does sometimes.
The only hole is the golden ticket. Why is he allowed to fly for free? I haven’t figured that out, but maybe an unknown benefactor? He never said Oceanic gave it to him…
Just a crazy theory…
Comment by ab — May 24, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
Did anyone catch the us toll free # on the show, to link up with the online game that ABC just released? I, surprisingly, need something to tide me over for a couple of months. midgetsaspets@yahoo.com if you can help…me
Comment by shawndandrew — May 24, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
i agree with dave’s theory on the fountain of youth. it all makes sense, how an ice age bear can still exist, but what if there still is a religious factor to this? there have been a lot of religious references, like jacob etc.
i hope that the lost writers answer the questions in the end, and tell us why the island is so special. but if it is a legendary fountain of youth, then the explorers and people eager to find it makes sense
Comment by Tony Flow Kiedis — May 24, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
I just can’t get people saying Christian is alive. Jack was high as a kite when the doctor was talking to him. After he made the comment about “go get my father” the other doctor looked at him sadly, and looked as if he was about to say something such as “Jack, your father’s dead…”, but he seemingly thought better of it, and was cut off anyway by Jack. In the pharmacy, I think Jack was trying to simply get one over so he could get the drugs he desperately needed to get through a given day post-island. He isn’t able to cope without them (or even with them, it seems). I doubt the pharmacist would know whether a doctor is dead or not, especially in a big city, off the top of her head. The perscription paper would have contained the doctor’s office number and info, and she could possibly have looked it up in the computer as well, but she wouldn’t necessarily just know every doctor, and who is alive, dead, retired, etc, off the top of her head. Jack just tried to get one over, and was pissed when it failed. He said that his father was out of town because he didn’t want her to follow-up and catch him in the lie…
As for Locke throwing the knife at Naomi, he couldn’t kill his dad, he couldn’t shoot the cop in the woods (in that flashback), and besides tossing Mikhail at the sonic fence, he hasn’t been able to finish off anyone yet, so to do that to Naomi I have to think he’s come to some realization after seeing Jacob. With Ms. Kluhe (or however it’s spelled) so willing to die to protect secrets, she had to know something about the island. Maybe whatever she and Ben knew, Locke has also discovered. If it’s alternate realities or maybe death on the island isn’t death in reality, or something else, he knew that killing Naomi wouldn’t be a bad thing. Or maybe he simply came to the realization that she was bad, and had to die to try to stop things. Ultimately, he couldn’t shoot Jack, so you have to wonder why it was so different with Jack (it’s not because they are lifelong friends, by any means). If protecting the island and staying on there was so important, why not kill Jack, or at least shoot the radio (or his hand)? There’s much more story to tell, but I thought it was great!
Comment by Brick — May 24, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
response to ab’s topic:
that is pretty interesting stuff with no one remembering the island, however, it seemed like kate implied that she had no desire to go back, so im not sure it works.
and oceanic would have definitely given the free flights out, i mean, they did spend 60 days on an island as a result of a plane crash, so he would be able to fly wherever he wants..
kate’s subtle acknowledgement of the free flights also disses your pathetic theory, it is crazy
Comment by dave — May 24, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
Do some people actually believe that Ben and Rousseau are the parents of Alex? We know Rousseau is Alex’s mother but I am confused that one would think Ben actually hooked up with her at one point. He is so obviously not the father.
I look forward to next season but fear these flashforward possibilities. For one thing we can clearly see who survives the island if we see a flashforward of them off of it. This takes away alot of the shock of killing off a character. We now know Kate and Jack will most definitely survive and are now safe if you will. I can only hope for tptb that they have at least them locked for the last 3 seasons otherwise you have alot of explaining to do. I would not buy the crap of they changed the future with actions they changed while on the island. That would negate all of the flashforwards we see then. If I see a flashforward I am gonna expect it to go that way as a result of what we see here on out. I think its a dangerous path the writers are going down, but really hope they get it right.
Comment by stigmatic — May 24, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
Dave,
Maybe. But it happened to Desmond…
It would explain why Christian is alive.
It would explain why no one recognizes Jack as being this miraculous survivor of flight 815.
It would explain why Jack finds an obituary for someone he thinks he ‘knew’ and when this keeps happening, it only furthers his thinking that he’s not crazy. The funeral director asks ‘friend or family’. Jack realizes that according to everyone, he’s neither — he doesn’t know the person.
And to further my ‘pathetic theory’… what if the obituary is for Sawyer? Under a con alias. He shows Kate. She doesn’t know who the hell this person is. This only further makes her think Jack’s nuts.
Just like me, huh?
Comment by ab — May 24, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
The casket was not Rose’s or Sawyer’s. Kate would not have contempt for going to Rose’s funeral. She didn’t hate Rose. Surely someone would have gone to Sawyer’s funeral, Hurley would have gone for sure. Anyway, Jack wouldn’t want to jump off a bridge for either of these people! He had to be in anguish for some other reason. I also doubt the Dharma people are on the boat. If they are, then surely they know all their people are dead and why are they still dropping food??? They came to live in peace according to Ben, so why would they be the bad guys?
Comment by trekee35 — May 24, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
ab,
i like the idea, but i think too many things can prove it wrong. Particularly with Jack and Kates conversation. Jack told kate that they weren’t supposed to leave, and kate said “yes we were”
Comment by Dr. Nope — May 24, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
Question: Why does Jack think the only way to get back to the island is by plane crashing? Why isn’t he looking by boat? Just a thought. Anway, the people on the boat could have forced everyone to leave the island, Ben and Locke included. I like the theory that they age rapidly when they leave the island. Maybe that explains the casket, I for sure think it could be Ben. Jack is obviously upset because Ben was RIGHT.
Comment by trekee35 — May 24, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
HELP, how does everyone know the show is going 3 more seasons????? I guess I missed this somehow. I read somewhere on the net that they were planning to end the show and it is only going one more season with a few episodes after that to end it. Anyone? Thankyou. (sorry for many posts, I am still psyched up from watching the finale, ha ha)
Comment by trekee35 — May 24, 2007 @ 9:36 pm
[color=red][size=70] OMG THEY HAVE JUST SAID THERE WILL BE NO 4TH SEASON …. OMG IS THIS TRUE I JUST HEIRD IT ON THE DAILY NEWS [/COLOR][/SIZE]
Comment by jimmy — May 24, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Ok I found it, sorry! I am almost disappointed though, I want to know the entire story so bad it will be hard to wait 3 more years to see how it all ends.
Comment by trekee35 — May 24, 2007 @ 9:48 pm
What was the name of the guy on the other end of the phone call that jack made? is he someone who works for widdmore?
Comment by Ace — May 24, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Hi
Just a thought. Perhaps the Chief of Surgery is Walt but much in the future. For some reason Jack and Kate are not agin.
Comment by rich — May 24, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Not sure if this was said but the song on the radio in the car was a nirvana song
Comment by dave — May 24, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
hey an anagram for the name of the funeral home is “flash foward.” its not the nineties. its no question a flash foward.
Comment by Anderson Krayne — May 24, 2007 @ 11:02 pm
Ok - my last say on this. I love this show, have always loved the show, and could continue to love this show - as long as the writers, or producers, or whomever decide to stop treating us like children with teaser commercials, annoying lost “answer” shows (more like recaps), etc. This show is great enough on its own without that crap. I almost am afraid that it will become so commercially driven that the writers will be forced to write whatever crazy thing they want just to throw us all off once we think we are coming to some plausible (maybe still paranormal, or time-bending, or whatever) theory. I don’t believe the writers want that - no good author does. When I read a great novel, like Lost is playing out to be, I expect that there will be surprises ALONG with the unfolding of answers that keep the reader satisfied that they are indeed somehow connected successfully to such a masterpiece.
I thought last night’s episode was AMAZING! I don’t think there were any real ANSWERS, but I didn’t NEED them. I want the answers to unfold gracefully throughout the play of the entire SERIES - spread over the seasons. For example, I thought the episode where Michael shot Libby and Ana Lucia and the episode after were mind-blowing and yet ANSWER GIVING episodes, as much as they raised entirely new and wonderful questions. That was a good thing. Not too many answers, just great writing.
My point about this is a total fear that due to slowly declining ratings (which should not matter, but seems to) that some bad choices will be made in terms of forcing writers to write for ratings instead of for the fans that love what they have done, what they have been doing and what they CAN do without pandering to a bunch of fickle channel changers. I DON’T believe the writers have done this, but I am seeing signs of it in the awful hyping of something that really isn’t happening (commercials, games, teasers, dvd extras, etc.
This episode was entirely about presenting new theories and giving us something crazy to hold us over for SO LONG! And thank God! With too many answers it would have been easier to forget (though I am not sure that is possible). I just want to make it clear to whomever might be reading this that is anybody with this great show. No more silly teasers. Please just give us pure, fantastic Lost and I will be happy.
Thank you.
Comment by peanutmom2001 — May 24, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
looks like we will be stuck with Jack until the very end. Of course he may leave the island durring s04ep01(or 2) and be shown only in flash forwards from now on. Desperately trying to figure out how to get back, while we sit and wonder what happend to everyone else.
I kind of got the felling that in Jack’s flah forward that he had only been off the island for maybe 6 months or less. Or about 6 months passed 3 years from current island time of 2004. Also the map above Jack’s head in his flat appears to have blacked out spots on areas where I’m assuming he’s concluded is not the island. Also he only had about 6 plane tickets laying around. Definately not 3 years worth. If that was ment to be a clue?
Jack’s flash forward arch could concievably have him recruiting a group to locate and return to the island for the series final(or season 6). First tracking down Penny, then convincing Kate and “him”(the only three who leave the island and are still alive?) to tag along after all. The first few die off adter Jack visits them perhaps.
~Just a few quick thoughts on Jack’s story~
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 24, 2007 @ 11:54 pm
in response to the dead bodys name begining with J and finishing in in nthum
it could be john locke etc etc and carrys on to another word… but how can nhe say u “get my father down here now and we’ll see if he’s drunker than me” when his dad is already dead and the future-backs are in he future…
Im Confused ;l
Comment by Conroy — May 25, 2007 @ 3:18 am
I’ve never posted before but nobody has suggested this so I think I’d throw it out there: DHARMA keeps dropping food on the island because Jin is Candle’s son. They said in the last Kwon story that they don’t know who Jin’s dad is, so it’s probably the Asian dude in the video.
Comment by Pig-Phuker — May 25, 2007 @ 3:40 am
The hint for the finding of Flight 815 was this:
When Ben was talking to Jack he said, I have had to sacrifice 40 innocent lives before to protect this island” or something to that degree. That meant to me that the others had arranged the fake crash site.
Also I think its highly likely that Jack travels back in time to the first episode again but some things are changed. If this is true though why would alow the rescue to go ahead again? Maybe he has to keep going back until he gets it right or until Locke shoots him.
I also really like the theory somebody posted above about Jacob actually being Jack from another time. I think that could work.
Comment by T — May 25, 2007 @ 4:35 am
Also other theory I have is that episode one of the show isn’t actually the first time they have been to the island.
Time Order: flashbacks, first time on island (episode 1), rescue, Jack becomes messed up realises the importance of the island which we have yet to see, return to island (this could be a return to episode 1), fix everything, show ends.
I don’t and I bet everybody else doesn’t like the bummer future for Jack. Saying all this though is only based on the factor’s of the show they have revealed to us so far. They only revealed time travel possibilites not too long ago so who knows what else is possible.
Time Travellers: Jack, Locke( “you aren’t supposed to make that call” ), Desmond, Richard Alpert, Jacob, Ben, Walt?
Comment by T — May 25, 2007 @ 4:42 am
1. Christian Shepard is dead (or out of town, or needs to be ‘brought down here’)
2. Locke is a Wussie. Shoot Jack! Shoot the phone! Shoot Jack in the arm or the leg or some other non lethal point on this magical healing Island Mr. “I just got shot through the torso and have recovered from paralysis THREE MUTHERFUDGING TIMES!!!”
3. The woman Jack saved from the car crash (which he indirectly caused) is named Arlen (or maybe Arland)
4, What kind of idiot is Mikhail for even thinking of using an explosive underwater?
5. To everyone who thought they saw Jin or Sun or Eko in the flashforward, you are like the cops in “Harold and Kumar go to White Castle”!!!
Comment by Drakoi — May 25, 2007 @ 5:09 am
oh, and after listening to a couple of podcasts, Darlton are a couple of jerkoffs. They like to make fun of their fans (some of it deservedly so) and they like to purposely fuel stupid rumors that they themselves have said are untrue.
Ezra James Sharkington?? Ok we get it, they think the fans are dumb and obsessive. A runway for the Aliens?? Haha, okay funny. But keeping the ‘Christian Shepard is alive’ rumor alive is just plain annoying.
Comment by drakoi — May 25, 2007 @ 5:15 am
And don’t even get me started on Purgatory!!! they said ‘it’s not purgatory, it’s not purgatory, it’s not purgator-THEY’RE ALL DEAD!’
They are like the ambigously gay kid in school who always gets picked on and so their defense mechanism is to relentlessly tease people about whether or not their gay. We’ve got it, they’re PAT.
Comment by Drakoi — May 25, 2007 @ 5:19 am
Some people mention above that they still think Ben is Alex’s Bio father but Damon in a Post season interview confirmed that he is not her real father.
K- Alex is actually Ben’s biological daughter.
Damon-False.
http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=9c9aafc1-e118-4d0c-9686-6b982fbd4e87
Comment by H20 — May 25, 2007 @ 7:15 am
two things:
Jack’s father is dead. The girl behind the desk didn’t now Jack’s father (she told him h can’t write his own medicine) so that’s why she tried to call him. And the thing Jack said to the other doctor….. let us not forget that Jack is drunk and a drug addict.
Whatever happend to that girl that was burried alive on the island (the one thatwas bit by a spider)
Comment by Mootjee — May 25, 2007 @ 7:32 am
Any thoughts on why Jack kept saying he was having headaches, dizzy, falling over….perhaps before he left the island they implanted a chip in his head to keep tabs of him and that is also why he had to meet Kate at the airport so that the signal can be jammed..
I just figured out Lost, sorry for spoiling it:)
Comment by Wilson — May 25, 2007 @ 8:46 am
I think Charlie had to close the door because it looked like the door could only be closed from the inside (several flashes of the door - have to check again) and also to save Des - he would have drowned trying to talk to Penny
Comment by AV — May 25, 2007 @ 9:23 am
http://www.latham.org
Comment by coachJ — May 25, 2007 @ 9:55 am
coachJ;
Food for thought the Others and Dharma seemed to have an interest in children and animals.
Latham.org
“Promoting Respect for All Life Through Education
A magazine presenting balanced perspectives on humane issues and activities. Appropriate for anyone interested in preventing child and animal abuse and domestic violence, the human-animal bond, animal-assisted therapy, and humane education.”
Comment by H20 — May 25, 2007 @ 11:01 am
first, Pig-phucker(you said it, not me),
We’ve known Jin’s dad from Season 1. Jins dad was also in the last Kwon Episode. He’s a fisherman, who Jin is ashamd of becaues of his low-level status. There is NO question as to who his father is. In fact include him in the list of people with daddy issues.
second, T,
Ben referring to having to killed 40 people was in direct reference to The Purge. When he and the natives gassed the Dharma workers and took over control of the island.
Sorry, but when i see things so blatantly mis-understood i feel the need to correct.
Comment by Airdank — May 25, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Airdank,
Jin’s “father” didn’t know if he was the real father because his mother was a prostitute. He raised him as a son, but he wasn’t sure.
Comment by AV — May 25, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Airdank;
You are right about what Ben was referring to the Purge.
But as for Gin we learn that his mother had been with many men and Mr Qwon does not even beleive he is his biological father but emotionally he still is his father as he raised him. Gin’s real father is an unknown factor.(D.O.C.)Hopefully he is not unknowingly Sun’s brother. EWH
Comment by H20 — May 25, 2007 @ 11:39 am
Did anyone else watching T.T.L.Glass expect jack at any moment to shout out, “THIS IS THE ISLAND!” (Knock-off of the movie 300, get it?) I know, bad joke. But he really looed like the guy from 300!
Comment by Declan O'Callahan — May 25, 2007 @ 11:40 am
I love this show. It is the best. This is the first time I’ve posted but I’m looking for a man who is as passionate about lost as I am.
Comment by monica thomas — May 25, 2007 @ 11:48 am
okay seriously, i dont see why its such a shock that everybody was calling jack a hero twice over or whatever. i personally think that it was quiet clear. his ex-wife, sarah, called him a hero for saving her. if you remember, her car accident was almost impossible to save her. she wnatd to “dance at her wedding” and that was the first time he was a hero…had nothin to do with the island and the plane crash or anything!
Comment by tootie — May 25, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Monica:
You’ve come to the right place. You’ll find lots of them here.
Comment by gusteaux — May 25, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
My theory for the rest of Lost:
Representitives from the off shore ship arrive and as Ben warned start to kill or capture the survivors. Maybe a lot of survivors die - including the likes of Rose, Claire, Hurley etc.
Jack and Kate and whoever is left team up with Ben and the others and are eventually rescued by Pennys team.
Jack realises the cost was too great and so has to alter the timeline. My guess is we will see a replay of the finale scene with Locke, Jack and the phone but it plays out differently and Jack never makes the call. Maybe the survivors then have to stay on the island forever?
Thoughts?
Comment by Lee South — May 25, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
“He never said Oceanic gave it to him… ”
YES HE DID.
In fact he said in reference to the free vouchers “…that Oceanic gave US.” so Kate has some too.
Comment by Rein — May 25, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Lost and Alias - Something Else in Common not only JJ Abrams create them both … but both series also astonishing reinvented themselves in mid-series… an analyis…
Comment by Paul Levinson — May 25, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Yeah Airdank pay attention, even if it IS a stupid ass Kwon episode
Comment by Pig-Phuker — May 25, 2007 @ 6:47 pm
My thoughts on the whose funeral Jack was attending are Ben, Locke or Michael. I’m assuming most likely Ben?? What do you think of my theories?
Comment by SirREggie — May 26, 2007 @ 8:34 am
On the subject of Charlie, I saw something that someone either posted before, or was written in a website article, about how Charlie wouldn’t have been in The Looking Glass if not for Desmond’s vision, as he wouldn’t have known to volunteer, etc, and wouldn’t have argued with Jack about doing it. Using that logic, which I tend to agree with, I noticed most of his other would be death traps would have been averted without the insight of Desmond…
Ok, the lightning strike may not have been averted without Des (or maybe Charlie wouldn’t have been in Claire’s tent if that crazy guy wasn’t hanging around building something right nearby—maybe Charlie felt he had to stay there to protect her in case he came over acting all nuts and stuff).
As for the drowning, Charlie was in the middle of the woods, and they ran back at top speed to follow Des (who had a vision). If not for Des’ vision, they may not have even left the woods, but definately wouldn’t have done so at such a high rate of speed. It’s very likely that Claire would have already been long gone before Charlie ever got back to the beach, so he may not have ever gone in the water at all…
As for the falling off the rock, I really have nothing, except that if Claire was already dead (above), Charlie wouldn’t have gone looking for the bird at the rock, but that may be kinda weak logic…
The arrow in the throat: If not for Des’ visions of the cable and the paratrooper, they likely wouldn’t have gathered such a rag-tag group of Losties together to go on a hike, and Charlie wouldn’t have been in harm’s way in the first place. It took a lot of convincing to get everyone to agree, if I recall, so it seems as if there was little chance that it would have happened in such a way.
As for the Looking Glass, Charlie only knew the details because of Des’ vision, and went looking to go down there. Had it not been for the vision, he wouldn’t have known about the switch by the flashing yellow light, and wouldn’t have been so coy when stating he was going to turn it off. That means he probably wouldn’t have been told about the code, and may not have had Des there to stop Mikhail. He also wouldn’t have known to stop Des (who probably wouldn’t have gone with him at all anyway) from finishing off the blond lady so he could get the code from her…
Charlie could have gotten out of the room, but didn’t because of Desmond’s vision. The door obviously had a wheel on the outside of it to secure it, and even without that, he could have had a oxygen tank ready before keying in the numbers. He gave his life to fulfill the vision of Des, and save Claire and Aaron.
Does this mean Charlie was really supposed to die each time that Des had a vision, but Des changed it? Or was it that he was supposed to die *because* Des had his visions, and may not have if Des wasn’t getting “flashes”? Does this mean that it’s not course correction so much as it is course predestination?
I just found it interesting, but there are still some holes to fill in. Maybe we don’t know the answers to fill in some of the gaps because we only were given the info based on the visions, or maybe some of the events wouldn’t have occurred at all depending on the outcome of previous events. Would it have turned out different if Desmond didn’t see flashes?
Comment by Brick — May 26, 2007 @ 9:35 am
I by no means want to sound racist but that funeral did take place in an African American section of town with a black undertaker. That leads me to wonder if it was either Rose or Michael.
Rose makes sense because we already knew she was terminally ill and the only thing keeping her alive was being on the island. Jack got them rescued and inadvertently sentenced her to death when her cancer came back.
However, Kate’s reaction “why would I go to the funeral” and the fact that this person had no friends or relatives makes me think it was not Rose.
It could be Michael, that would explain Kate’s hostile comment, since she still views him as a traitor. Apparently his son Walt is still on the island so the fact that no family came to the funeral is not surprising.
Whoever it is, it seems that Ben was telling Jack the truth. I think Jack is depressed because he is witnessing as one by one, the rescued people are dying off, all because of his decision to get them rescued.
Comment by Stripe — May 26, 2007 @ 11:51 am
I by no means want to sound racist but that funeral did take place in an African American section of town with a black undertaker. That leads me to wonder if it was either Rose or Michael.
Rose makes sense because we already knew she was terminally ill and the only thing keeping her alive was being on the island. Jack got them rescued and inadvertently sentenced her to death when her cancer came back.
However, Kate’s reaction “why would I go to the funeral” and the fact that this person had no friends or relatives makes me think it was not Rose.
It could be Michael, that would explain Kate’s hostile comment, since she still views him as a traitor. Apparently his son Walt is still on the island so the fact that no family came to the funeral is not surprising.
Whoever it is, it seems that Ben was telling Jack the truth. I think Jack is depressed because he is witnessing as one by one, the rescued people are dying off, all because of his decision to get them rescued.
Comment by Stripe — May 26, 2007 @ 11:52 am
I by no means want to sound racist but that funeral did take place in an African American section of town with a black undertaker. That leads me to wonder if it was either Rose or Michael.
Rose makes sense because we already knew she was terminally ill and the only thing keeping her alive was being on the island. Jack got them rescued and inadvertently sentenced her to death when her cancer came back.
However, Kate’s reaction “why would I go to the funeral” and the fact that this person had no friends or relatives makes me think it was not Rose.
It could be Michael, that would explain Kate’s hostile comment, since she still views him as a traitor. Apparently his son Walt is still on the island so the fact that no family came to the funeral is not surprising.
Whoever it is, it seems that Ben was telling Jack the truth. I think Jack is depressed because he is witnessing as one by one, the rescued people are dying off, all because of his decision to get them rescued.
Comment by Stripe — May 26, 2007 @ 11:53 am
hey anyone notice? jeremy BENtham.
Comment by lostfanatic — May 26, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
Question.
What did you think when Danielle said she made the radio transmission three days before Alex was born?
Didn’t she say in season 1 (or 2, my memory fails me) that she also landed on the island by accident? Then how does daddy Ben fit into the picture?
Im not getting it……any help, guys?
Comment by Queppy — May 27, 2007 @ 3:05 am
People!
For those of you who are still thinking that Ben somehow impregnated Danielle, come on! She said that “Alex was taken” in sesason 1. She was like only a few weeks old and Ben kept her as his own. He is not the father of Alex!
Comment by Robb — May 27, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
Dear Rein:
About your response to my Oceanic Golden ticket…
QUOTE: “YES HE DID.
In fact he said in reference to the free vouchers “…that Oceanic gave US.” so Kate has some too. ”
Actually, I believe he said ‘that THEY gave us’. He doesn’t specify.
Comment by ab — May 27, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
I just noticed something off. I rewatched the episode and the iteration count on Danielle’s transmission is not right. Production goof?
Once they are inside the radio tower station, the number of the count seems to be right - 17550445. That would put the count at 16.69 years. (When Sayid hears it in the first episode it is at 16.45 years.)
But when they are standing outside and Naomi turns on her phone they hear the transmission, the iteration count is not what it should be.
I wonder if any mathematicians out there could figure exactly how days ago the message was first recorded and compare it to the day Sayid hears it, and then when they get to the tower and compare that to the number of days they’ve been on the island. See if it all matches up.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 28, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
I think the next season will be full of flash forwards and they’ll get off the island. The next season will be Jack trying to get back to the island.
They werent supposed to leave. Plain and simple. Something bad happned and Jack needs to get back to fix things. In the one scene you see jacks place full of maps and it looks like he’s trying to plot a course back to the island.
IMO it’ll be Jack, Kate and maybe Sawyer going back for unfinished biz. Maybe against Jacob, Locke, Ben or whatever bad guy is there.
Comment by Jefferson — May 28, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
“hey anyone notice? jeremy BENtham.”
OMG NO ONE EVER SAW THAT ONE COMING. YOU SURE SLUETHED THE WORLD AND THE MILLIONS OF OBSESSED FANS WHO NEVER SAW THAT COMING BEFORE.
GOLD STARZ FOR YEW!
Comment by lostfanaticisstupid — May 29, 2007 @ 8:55 am
Ok a few things - one. i think the funeral was bens. When Jack was asked was he friend or family he says niether - which wouldn’t suggest anyone else on the island but ben - even the ones he didnt get on with on the island he would still consider them a friend. Besides the coffin was too small to be anyone elses.
Two - when Kate says “he” it’s obviously sawyer - They got off the island and hooked up and thats whats been eating away at Jack and thats why he’s become an alcoholic.
three - when jack says “get my father down here and if I’m drunker than him you can fire me” is sarcastic.
And four - I hate the writers for throwing that idea in at the end of a season - we have to wait for too long before we find out what happens. I just feel cheated.
Oh and a few posts back someone was asking for the names on the island beginning with J - so far i have John locke, jack, juliette, james, jacob, jin and jack
Comment by MICBING — May 30, 2007 @ 7:01 am
Time travel? It would sure explain why there are problems with babies being born on the island. Too far back and there’s no conception, too far forward and there’s no gestation.
Also, in time travel, remember the monster beasts we heard but never saw? Only one creature has ever walked this earth that was that size, and they lived a long, long time ago
Richard Alpert? Why do we know his last name and not any others? The real Richard Alpert is now known as Baba Ram Dass. He was a professor at Harvard in the ’60s who lost his job. The reason? His counter-culture work on LSD experiments with his colleague…Timothy Leary
Kate shows up for her meeting with Jack driving a new Volvo (so, along with the cell phone model, we can throw out it’s not in current time) looking quite well cared for. She is apparently not a fugitive anymore. So the murder charges were just dismissed? Not likely.
And, I think it is Ben in the coffin. There are other really, REALLY, bad people coming to the island that Ben is instrumental in saving the survivors from. There’s no return without him, and yet Jack and Kate, at least, are living “the lie” Jack mentions. Also, did anyone else think the coffin looked on the small side? Watch when Jack, with him facing the camera, is shown standing over it. It seems just the right size for the tiny Ben
Comment by Upstatejefan — May 30, 2007 @ 8:40 am
well…flash forward FUTURE!!!my little boys!!!
Ex jack`s wife visiting him in hospital after the car accident…She is pregnant!!!…I dont remember her pregnant after Jack left L.A heading to Sydney…it means while or just Jack`s arrived in the island …she was conceived!!!…Therefore between 7 and 9 months around after Jack arrived in the island the encounter in the hospital did happened!!!!…..
I got more stuff for you little boys…Want a hint?…please read carefully all the titles of the episodes from season 1 to 3 (there is encripted messages..a whole narration!!)…You will find many interesting things!!!
I will be back !!!
Comment by edo — June 7, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
Alright, Edo, if you found “encripted messages” in the episode titles, how about sharing them?
Comment by Upstatejefan — June 12, 2007 @ 6:55 am
sd
Comment by suresh — September 19, 2007 @ 12:57 am
if you zoom the picture you see another letter after the “j”, i might think its an “a” or an “o”. Logicaly it would be an a because of jAcob. well thats my opinion:D…what do u think??
Comment by xavier — February 14, 2008 @ 11:17 am