Why is Charlie Still Alive?
The biggest question that has been haunting me these past few days is why didn’t Charlie die as Desmond predicted. We know that Desmond had a flash, and we know that Charlie was supposed to drown in The Looking Glass, but he didn’t. And neither Desmond or Charlie altered anything. Why isn’t Charlie dead? Read on and you’ll get my take on it, then you can post yours!
First, I’m jumping for joy. Not only did Charlie not die in ‘Greatest Hits’, but, more importantly, I was right! Charlie isn’t dead yet (and I hope he isn’t going to be). The more important question, though, is why? Desmond saw him die in his flash. Here’s what I came up with.
The following assumes that Desmond is not lying about the vision he saw. We didn’t see his flashes for some of the other Charlie saves either and they were true. With regards to relevance, this is not merely about Charlie’s death, but about the overall theme of fate and free will, course-correction and altering timelines. Also, the flashes implied that Charlie wouldn’t get a breath of air, and would rather have to swim to the switch from the boat in one breath. The point is that Desmond’s flash didn’t happen how it was shown to him, yet no one did anything to change what was supposed to happen, and what was supposed to happen didn’t happen.
The Universe Course-Corrected and the Island Fought Back
We know through the LOST Experience that the Island (well, the DHARMA Initiative using the Island’s powers) is attempting to stop the catastrophic end of the human race. We also know that the Universe compensates for changes that will alter the fate it has decided for us. The Island is trying to fight the Universe’s power to correct fate, and maybe it did the same in Charlie’s case. The Island saved Charlie. The Island gave Desmond the power to see future events, and in so doing, changed those future events. Seven of Nine said it best in Endgame, Part 2 when she told Admiral Janeway that the knowledge of future events changes the possibility of those events happening. Ironically, she was also told she would die and didn’t.
The point here is that the Island, directly or indirectly, saved Charlie for some greater purpose that the Island has in mind. What is Charlie’s purpose? Why does the Island need him? Is this theory anywhere near valid?
Desmond Was Right!
Desmond is having the visions so he can interrupt them. This follows along with the theory above, saying that Desmond has the flashes so that he can stop them. The difference being that this theory holds that Desmond is the one supposed to die, and on all the occasions he has saved Charlie, he has narrowly avoided death himself. This time, he sees Charlie die so that he can take his place, the problem is that this time Charlie has altered what was supposed to happen. Maybe this combined a separate timeline where The Looking Glass wasn’t flooded, or the Universe course corrected because Charlie wasn’t actually supposed to die.
I lean more towards my second option. It makes a bit more sense to me, but maybe it’s a combination of both. Maybe I’m totally wrong. Maybe your idea is right, so please post it (or at least examine mine)!
My thought was and is still this:
The prediction is still up… it just didn’t fill in the missing segment of charlie getting trapped with those girls.. I think in the finale that there will be some flooding involved where he flips a switch and drowns, which makes dezzy’s prediction come true… so basically like all of his predictions, he leaves the stuff connecting the things all together.
Comment by Josh — May 20, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
This post was useless Arzt. You are completely wrong, first of all, in saying that Desmond came anywhere near death when he stopped Charlie from dying. He didn’t come close when the lightning struck, he didn’t come close when he saved Claire, and he didn’t come close when he got the bird from the rocks.
Secondly, the fact that Charlie didn’t die in his episode doesn’t mean it just HAD to happen that episode. There is still a two-hour season finale where Charlie may very well encounter the exact situation Desmond foresaw, and for the sake of plot continuity, more than likely WILL encounter that situation.
Be patient. The suspense of Charlie’s death (if you actually care about Charlie dying, I don’t honestly) does not need theory. If it happens, it happens, if it doesn’t, oh well.
Comment by Roger — May 20, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
Desmond said that he was going to die AFTER he flicked the switch inside the hatch. Right now he’s in the hatch but hasn’t hit the switch. So, there’s still time.
Comment by Jim — May 20, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
I’m just curious if anyone else put two and two together? I believe Charlie will die in the last episode based on what happened in “The Looking Glass Episode.” It practically plays it out for you. This is why:
1) Alex has killed a white rabbit - a little foreshadowing?
2) The Looking Glass station Map that Sayid was referencing had a white rabbit logo in the upper left corner.
3) Charlie represents the white rabbit in this episode as he dove down “into the hole” first.
4) Desmond is going to play the role of Alice…following him down the hole.
So, that brings me to this conclusion. The scene with Alex killing the rabbit last week was foreshadowing the fact that Charlie will die in the last episode.
Thoughts?
Comment by Backrow observer — May 20, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
You’ll notice that there were no Desmond “flashes” for the Charlie “dies while drowning” prediction. It would seem that Desmond is lying or atleast obscuring the truth.
Of course, if Charlie escapes the two-young-ladies-who-dress-a-whole-lot-like-danielle-and-meet-newcomers-with-the-same-gun-in-your-face-style and slips on a banana peel and goes into the water and drowns, then that theory is toast.
Comment by frank martin — May 20, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Hey Roger. Check the byline. Not my post.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
I was going to say exactly what Roger said.
Desmond’s vision had charlie dieing AFTER he flipped the switch near the yellow flashing light (which we all saw during the promo for the finale)…so the events of Desmond’s vision just hasnt happened yet.
Comment by taylor — May 20, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
Nah. Even when Desmond’s flashes have been visualized for us onscreen, they are always small fragments of the overall event. For instance, when Naomi crashed, we saw the cable, the chopper lights, the picture of Des and Penny, Charlie getting the arrow in the neck, the body in the tree. But tons of stuff happened in between all of that.
Desmond’s visions aren’t complete.
Comment by kkty — May 20, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
I don’t think the chain of events have yet run their course. It is intriguing to think that somehow an event was changed in the past and the result of the permutations were that the hatch was not flooded. I just don’t buy that yet.
We were told from someone that was supposed to know such things that Charlie’s fate was to be resolved in the “Greatest Hits.” The question is was it resolved?
Roger, Desmond was in harms way each time he saved Charlie except for the lightning strike. Desmond put himself in Charlie’s shoes each time he saved Charlie after that.
Frank, when Desmond saved Charlie the first two times, we also didn’t see the flashes. It was only in “Catch-22″ that we actually saw the flash of Charlies death.
Backrow Observer, damn fine observation. Very impressive and probably acurate.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 20, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
I’m just amused that you used a “Star Trek” reference. My two favorite worlds colliding again!
Comment by Randy — May 20, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
I think that Des was lying about Charlie going to die. The looking glass was never flooded in my opinion, Ben said that to scare people away from going down there, or to hide what was down there.
Also if you watch the preview it shows Des diving in right away after he wakes up like he knows what’s up down there. He wouldn’t dive down there trying to save Charlie from drowning he would just kill himself… and they’d both die. I dunno why Desmond would lie about that but it makes the most sense.
Also the brunette in the station looks very similar to the girl (that Sawyer conned) that helped Kate talk to her mom in the flash back.
Comment by Kevin — May 20, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
i think some of you are confused (or i might be wrong in which case i apologise) but My understanding is that Desmond says that he flips the switch and then the hatch floods and then charlie dies….none of which has happened…yet.
P.S. since when is “Hatch” an offical DHARMA name for the stations?
Comment by taylor — May 20, 2007 @ 7:47 pm
Maybe we need to start looking to another JJ Abrams show for clues. I am speaking, of course, of….Felicity. Yes, Felicity. The last 6 episodes of that show were all about time travel and course-correction. I kid you not. So, maybe if that is the theme here in Lost, something along the way has saved Charlie (as I believe others have speculated).
Comment by Courtney — May 20, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
What happened to Arzt writing these posts?
Who is DavidHume all out of nowhere?
How are all these people replying to other peoples comments that have not commented yet?
When did Alex kill the rabbit?
I only remember Karl and Alex mentioning the rabbit, but never showing her killing it?
Comment by frankie — May 20, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
I also think that Desmond was lying about Charlie’s impending death. We have already seen that Desmond is willing to put Charlie in harms way in order to get what he wants, and I think that Desmond’s story of Charlie drowning in order to save Claire and Aaron was Des’s underhanded way of getting Charlie to come out with him on the outrigger.
My theory is that Desmond’s premonition required Charlie to be on the boat but to not have the guts to go in. Desmond takes his place and then Charlie dies, while waiting on the surface. Unfortunately, Desmond’s story was too convincing, and Charlie was willing to sacrifice himself. This means that the future that Desmond wanted is not assured so Desmond is forced into action. By taking his fate in his own hands, Charlie has changed where the timeline is going and what might still happen is now unknown.
Comment by tillman — May 20, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
I agree with everyone else about desmond’s visions not yet having come to fruition. He never said anything about the hatch being flooded. He said “You’re in a hatch, you flip a switch, and then you drown.” Based on what Juliet said about the hatch being flooded, we assume it is flooded and that in Desmond’s visions it must’ve also been flooded. In my opinion, Charlie will still flip the switch and proceed to drown.
Comment by Jimmy — May 20, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
Taylor-
The reason the papers Sayid has said Hatch, as far as I am concerned, there is still some debate, is that in the traditional sense of the word hatch, this part of the looking glass station is actually a hatch.
Comment by Jimmy — May 20, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
“Also, the flashes implied that Charlie wouldn’t get a breath of air, and would rather have to swim to the switch from the boat in one breath.”
I disagree. I think that the implication that Charlie wouldn’t get a breath of air was one made on the part of the audience and on the part of Charlie. I am of the opinion that Desmond’s prophecy is still in play. I suspect that Charlie will ultimately flip the switch, and then either that or something else will result in Looking Glass Station flooding. (Pure speculation here; I avoide forbidden fruit.)
“The difference being that this theory holds that Desmond is the one supposed to die, and on all the occasions he has saved Charlie, he has narrowly avoided death himself.”
What is your support for this? We’ve never gotten any indication that Desmond has narrowly avoided death himself in saving Charlie.
Take him saving Claire from drowning in “Flashes Before Your Eyes”. Had Desmond done nothing, Charlie would have dove in, tried to save Claire, and drowned. By all indications, Desmond would have been safe on the shore. But he did change things and did dive in…but he didn’t die. Des wasn’t in danger either way.
Comment by S. A. Bonasi — May 20, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
At first blush, I didn’t make anything if this until I rewatched “The Answers.” I went into a little more detail on my blog, but here are the pertinent parts:
In LOST: The Answers, Carlton Cuse made the following quote: “This island has given them an opportunity to completely reinvent themselves, and that change, for these characters, is really what the end game of the show will be all about.”
…from what we know about Charlie, we know that the island has the ability to allow a person to correct mistakes. How he couldn’t swim and now he can is strong evidence of a reinvention. He gained this new ability to swim after he heard that he drowned while saving Claire. Did the island’s special properties give him the chance to re-live the moment of failure? This time, since Charlie was subconsciously aware that if he didn’t learn to swim, it would cost him his life. So he gathered up courage, trusted his father and jumped.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 20, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
thanks jimmy.
Comment by taylor — May 20, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
My apologies if this is a duplicate; I’m avoiding reading anything that might contain spoilers, even rumors.
My opinion is that Desmond’s vision is still in effect. He didn’t say anything about the time between events in it, possibly because they weren’t clear to him, just as in previous flashes, he seems to see groups of isolated events without necessarily understanding what connects them.
So, Desmond says words to the effect of “You’re in a hatch. There’s a blinking yellow light, you flip the switch, then you drown.” He doesn’t say “You’re only under water as long as you can hold your breath once.” There’s room in there for Charlie to spend some time in the Looking Glass, something to go catastrophically wrong down there, and for him to flip the switch just before he drowns.
Comment by Tim J. — May 20, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
Here’s another question. Going back to “The Man Behind the Curtain” and watching the cabin scene again, along with a brief profile of Jacob, there’s a brief flash of an eye in extreme close-up. The eye color is wrong for Locke, and there’s too much eyebrow too close to the eye to be Ben: whose eye was that? Jacob’s, maybe? And if it’s his, is it wide with anger, fear, or something else?
Comment by Tim J. — May 20, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
How about…
The Looking Glass floods after Charlie hits the button and drowns afterwards? Desmond never said Charlie was in a FLOODED hatch, just that he was in a hatch and drowned after hitting the button.
It’s possible Charlie hits the button and them the station de-pressurizes or something and Charlie drowns, that way Desmond’s vision is still true.
Comment by Chris — May 20, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
I also should clarify…my comment was a reference to Alice in Wonderland, which was also the topic of episode 5 in Season 1. The rabbit in the corner of the map of the “Looking Glass” map, I believe is truly a reference to Alice in Wonderland.
I’m just curious if anyone else put two and two together? I believe Charlie will die in the last episode based on what happened in “The Looking Glass Episode.” It practically plays it out for you. This is why:
1) Alex has killed a white rabbit - a little foreshadowing?
2) The Looking Glass station Map that Sayid was referencing had a white rabbit logo in the upper left corner.
3) Charlie represents the white rabbit in this episode as he dove down “into the hole” first.
4) Desmond is going to play the role of Alice…following him down the hole.
So, that brings me to this conclusion. The scene with Alex killing the rabbit last week was foreshadowing the fact that Charlie will die in the last episode.
Thoughts?
Comment by Backrow observer — May 20, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
Forgot where it was, in an interview Dominic says:
(Paraphrasing)
Charlie starts to make up a song while being tourtured… But finishes the song in an sort of unusual way…
Or maybe I just read it somwhere?
Anyone else remeber this and the source?
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 20, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
My take on this is in Desmond’s vision charlie didn’t have the extra weights the rocks provided. Remember Desmond only said it would get him there quicker, but he never said anything about them in the vision. I think it’s something Desmond added to increase likelyness of Charlie pushing the button but didn’t realise he was changing the future
Comment by Ian — May 20, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
“The biggest question that has been haunting me these past few days is why didn’t Charlie die as Desmond predicted.”
I don’t understand why so many people find this difficult.
Charlie hasn’t died because he hasn’t yet flipped a certain switch.
Desmond said that first Charlie would flip a switch, and then he’d die. Had he flipped the switch yet? No? Then he should not yet be dead.
Comment by Lance — May 20, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
I think the only reason Desmond has been saving Charlie is so that he can do just what he set out to do in Greatest Hits. It’s not for Desmond to die in his place.
As for your comment “and on all the occasions he has saved Charlie, he has narrowly avoided death himself” … I think you must have been watching a show that none of us have been watching. LOL Just how did Desmond “narrowly escape” death when saving Charlie?
Let’s see:
1] Lighting strikes the tent. Desmond has lots of time to set up his lighting rod and is not even touched by the lightning or even its sparks. No narrow escape there.
2] Claire drowning. Desmond gets in the water and gets her out with no problems. He’s not even breathing hard afterwards. No narrow escape there.
3] Charlie is supposed to drown while catching a pigeon for Claire’s rescue message. He’s supposed to hit his head on the rocks and drown. Desmond walks right up to the bird, picks it up and, if not for Claire, would then head right back to camp. No narrow escape there.
4] Charlie is supposed to dive to the Looking Glass station to flip a switch so they can be rescued. If Charlie hadn’t hit Des over the head with the oar there would have been no threat to his life at all.
For these reasons, that theory doesn’t work.
Comment by jbdean — May 20, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
My therory: Charlie will die, but not the way Desmond predicted. I think Desmond lied to Charlie about the circumstances of his death. Des knew that Charlie would be tortured by those women and wanted to spare him the grusome details. Desmond will intervine, perhaps with the help of patchy (who I think is not, and never has been a villan). Charlie will use the Looking glass “hatch” to transport to the outside world. The looking glass is a bridge or wormhole, and is the only way on or off the island. But that’s not all. It is a way into the past. Charlie will be taken back into his past with the foreknowledge of the island. He will summon help, but die in the process. this is how Desmonds helicopters wil arrive. Perhaps Charlie is murdered by Ethan, thus preventing him Charlie from killing him in the near futute. Could he be the aforemantioned cast member that’s coming back?
Comment by Stev — May 20, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
I don’t believe anyone has mentioned this before….. But, along the lines of Through the Looking Glass, the White Rabbit and Alice in Wonderland - did anyone notice that Ben’s mother was dressed a lot like Alice when he saw her through the sonic fence in The Man Behind the Curtain? I don’t know if it has any bearing at all on anything, it’s just someting that’s really stuck in my brain as possibly significant.
Comment by Lee — May 20, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
It should be pointed out that Desmond never said the hatch was flooded. He said he saw Charlie in a hatch, he hits a yellow switch (or pushed a button), and then he drowned. It was Juliet who later said the hatch was flooded. My guess is Charlie still dies as predicted. The hatch floods either immediately before Charlie hits the switch or as a result of it.
Comment by bboryla — May 20, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
P.S. since when is “Hatch” an offical DHARMA name for the stations?
HATCH: DEFINITION
a small door or opening
Sayid’s Looking Glass HATCH schematic is not a goof or production gaff. The creators are flat out telling us that the Looking Glass is a DOOR. The whole station IS a hatch = it IS a door.
When Locke first found a “hatch” he and Boone actually had found the door first. The hatch led to a drop down tunnel which was, in essence, the doorway to the station that was underground. So they were digging up the “hatch” - the door. Then they continued to refer to it as “the hatch” because that was what they had been calling it.
I could be wrong, but I don’t recall anyone ever saying, “Pearl Hatch” or “Arrow Hatch.”
So DHARMA intentionally put “HATCH” on this schematic because that is exactly what it is.
The question is if it is a door, then FROM where and / or TO where?
As to the topic of this thread, I’ve never quite understood why Desmond’s visions only pertain to Charlie. Can he see any other flashes that do not involve Charlie? He knows that the slightest change in the course of events changes the “picture on the box” _ it changes the outcome. So I would think it is a big gamble to risk Charlie’s life and have him intentionally go to his doom, when there is a slight chance that the outcome might change. I think Des knows more than he’s telling this time. Charlie defied Des the last time he had a flash and they had to get to the parachutist. Des wanted to go and Charlie insisted on waiting for daylight. So maybe this time, Des is lying to Charlie to make sure he does exactly what Des needs him to do.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 20, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
TabulaRasa, I have to say I like your theory best. Seems…. fitting.
I initially thought Desmond was lying. I’m not really sure what to think now, I guess I’m just kindof wanting to let myself wait and see.
Comment by KrissyLove — May 20, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
Sorry if someone else has already posted this theory, but I believe that Charlie might have passed the switch on accident. When he was struggling to both hold his breath and look for something that he had no idea where it could be, he could easily miss the switch. Therefore Charlie unknowingly saved himself.
Everyone else here has great theories, makes mine look ehh.
Comment by Wolfie — May 20, 2007 @ 10:57 pm
Actually Wolfie…. that’s an interesting thought too.
I think at this point I think I’m in favor of any plausible theory that *doesn’t* involve Charlie dying
Come on, writers, make my life!
Comment by KrissyLove — May 20, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
This may have been said, but I’m thinking Desmond was lying to Charlie about drowning. We can see from the previews that Des is down in the Looking Glass station, holding a spear gun to someone. I think in his flash, he saw Charlie swim down, he saw the women, and he saw himself, down there, eventually, shooting that spear gun.
I say that spear flies out and right into Charlie’s throat. Desmond kills Charlie because that is what he saw in his flash. The look on Desmond’s face at the beginning of Greatest Hits looked like more than a simple flash, Des was struggling with something.
He believes saving Charlie before caused a course correction and changed Penny into Naomi. He kills Charlie to ensure rescue, to make sure the choppers and the rest all happen…
Comment by Revolution — May 21, 2007 @ 12:20 am
In the first place, in S1 Charlie doesn’t say, “I can’t swim,” he says, “I DON’T swim”, a subtle difference, but a difference nevertheless. He isn’t prepard to take it on to save the girl that’s drowning, but by S3 he’s changed and IS prepared to take it on to save the entire community - especially Claire and Aaron, his experiences on the island have redeemed his character.
Secondly there’s Charlie’s ring. The close-up of the ring at the end is I think significant given the emotinal signficance that’s placed on it. Perhaps Charlie makes it back to the island, but is then killed when he’s forced back to the beach settlement to retrieve his ring. It’s possible that Desmond lied to Charlie about the nature of his death, because unless Charlie believed he’d die in the ‘Looking Glass’, he wouldn’t have left his ring in the baby’s cot, which ultimately leads to his sacrifce - for reasons that are yet unclear, Charlie has to die to bring about rescue.
Perhaps the power on the island is responsible for Desmond’s visions (Jacob?) - and if this power exists in a state of time out of joint, then it could be sending Desmond the flashes in order to manipulate the time-line to bring about as yet unclear objectives.
Comment by mark burgess — May 21, 2007 @ 1:12 am
Why hasn’t he died? Because the whole event hasn’t played out yet?
I’m betting that Desmond saw in his flashes that Charlie would be tortured. Can’t really blame him for not telling Charlie. Better to know that you are going to die than to know you are going to die after being brutally tortured.
Desmond’s flash also said that Charlie would flip the switch, and then he would die. He never said the stations was flooded to begin with.
It was Ben who told the Others that the station was flooded. Looks like you’ve gotten some of your facts mixed up here DavidHume.
Will the last episode be the one where Charlie bites the dust? Will Desmond die? Will they both die? It’s possible, but unlikely considering it’s all to obvious.
My bet on who dies… Rose.
Comment by d3bruts1d — May 21, 2007 @ 4:15 am
I think you’re reading too much into it, and Desmond simply didn’t tell the truth about his flashback. He knew that Charlie would be caught down there, and it has a significant reason.
We’ll find out what he actually saw in the finale.
Comment by Matt — May 21, 2007 @ 5:09 am
yeah im totaly agree with some of you.
He haven’t died because he haven’t been in that situation yet.
He haven’t been into that room with all the blinking orange lights and haven’t flip the switch.
I tink its maybe not time yet because there were still people on the looking glas, maybe it should be much more forward in time just like jack said before he changed his mind.
Or maybe this will happend in the two hour season finale.
Just my way theory.
Don’t know if I’d read it clearly or something.
Anyway, only time will tell.
Comment by Oli Makkaroni — May 21, 2007 @ 5:21 am
looks as though a lot of people here have read the spoilers and are being modest about it not wanting to spoil anything for others and all, wink wink.
Comment by nick — May 21, 2007 @ 5:32 am
Why would Desmond ask Charlie how long can he actually hold his breath, then? Curiousity, maybe. But I think there’s something greater there.
Comment by DavidHume — May 21, 2007 @ 5:59 am
Why are we assuming Ben told the truth when he told the others the hatch is flooded?? Why not just lie because there were still dharma personal trapped on the station, they’re stale-mated they block his communication, but they know they can’t leave the station.
Comment by joela07 — May 21, 2007 @ 6:02 am
It wasn’t desmond who said that the place was flooded NOW, he just said Charlie would drown after doing something to a yellow switch.
I think it was juliette who said it was flooded now.
Anyway, we did not see Desmond’s flashbacks, and when we do- we will see that desmond told the truth about Charlie’s dying BUT lied about the consequences part- He just made up the part that Claire would get into a helicopter. He probably saw Charlie die, and then something related to Penny. This is why he felt guilty on the boat, and offered to take Charlie’s place, because he knew he was using Charlie’s death to get to penny. desmond is a good person and could not go through with misleading Charlie.
Comment by Hawaiiheaven — May 21, 2007 @ 6:02 am
Is it possible that Desmond preparing Charlie to die the last few episodes was ultimately encouraging him to visit the Looking Glass? Maybe Charlie wasn’t ever supposed to die, and the Island was manipulating events/visions in order for it to appear that way.
Comment by DMC — May 21, 2007 @ 6:09 am
Is it possible that Desmond preparing Charlie to die the last few episodes was ultimately encouraging him to visit the Looking Glass? Maybe Charlie wasn’t ever supposed to die, and the Island was manipulating events/visions in order for it to appear that way.
Comment by DMC — May 21, 2007 @ 6:09 am
Wasnt Desmonds Vision that Charlie goes into the Looking Glass and flicks the yellow switch and dies trying to escape. he still hasnt touch the switch
Comment by baboom15 — May 21, 2007 @ 7:02 am
We didn’t actually see Desmonds vision this time? As far as I can remember, the other times we usually see his vision. Maybe he knows more than he is leading on.
Comment by Alex — May 21, 2007 @ 7:17 am
The thing I don’t get is that the only reason that Charlie volunteered for the mission is because Desmond told him he would to meet his fate and save Claire and Aaron. So, in essence, Desmond was the cause of Charlie’s death/near death this time, not the universe. Without his influence, or telling Charlie of the flashes, it wouldn’t have happened. Does that make any sense? It just seems like a catch-22…
The thing that irritates me the most is that even if Charlie DOES die, we all know they aren’t getting off that island any time soon (we still have 3 seasons to kill), meaning his death will be in vain.
And that pisses me off. He’s supposed to be Turniphead’s adoptive Daddy if and when they all get back to the real world. It just seems so anticlimatic that he die now, for nothing.
And boy is Claire going to be PISSED at Desmond for letting Charlie go to his death knowingly…
Comment by syko4bosco — May 21, 2007 @ 7:34 am
You guys are working under the impression that the lost producers are actively sentient of the elements in those episodes. All this theme, foreshadowing, and complex levels of the hero literary layers are, in my opinion, too deep and forced on your part. When the writers write the episode, all they care about is to create something that will attract more viewers(peripheral route to persuassion with an influx of nudity, sex scenes, and attractive women in recent episodes) and keep the current viewers loyal to the series (by arising new questins in every episode). I believe some of the minor elements are inplemented on purposes (i.e. easter eggs), but the literary devices are not thought out or planned by the writers. But naturally, a few things will connect and make us tink they have great literary minds, but not so. The extent of the show’s complexity can be fully attributed to allusions to other books, etc.
With that logic, the reason charlie didn’t die was that the producers wanted an ancor to pull the viwers back for another episode. At this point, they are doing everything they can to draw all types of viwers to the finale. This is critical for the preservation of the audience until next season since a large number in bound to atrophy during the haitus. The fact that it is already know[through spoilers] that charlie dies in the next episode goes to prove this.
Comment by getalife_noteventhewritersknow_yet — May 21, 2007 @ 7:50 am
You guys are working under the impression that the lost producers are actively sentient of the elements in those episodes. All this theme, foreshadowing, and complex levels of the hero literary layers are, in my opinion, too deep and forced on your part. When the writers write the episode, all they care about is to create something that will attract more viewers(peripheral route to persuassion with an influx of nudity, sex scenes, and attractive women in recent episodes) and keep the current viewers loyal to the series (by arising new questins in every episode). I believe some of the minor elements are inplemented on purposes (i.e. easter eggs), but the literary devices are not thought out or planned by the writers. But naturally, a few things will connect and make us tink they have great literary minds, but not so. The extent of the show’s complexity can be fully attributed to allusions to other books, etc.
With that logic, the reason charlie didn’t die was that the producers wanted an ancor to pull the viwers back for another episode. At this point, they are doing everything they can to draw all types of viwers to the finale. This is critical for the preservation of the audience until next season since a large number in bound to atrophy during the haitus. The fact that it is already know[through spoilers] that charlie dies in the next episode goes to prove this.
Comment by getalife_noteventhewritersknow_yet — May 21, 2007 @ 7:50 am
You can pretty much put your money on Charlie dying unless Desmond tries to stop it. Des was not lying. Just because we didn’t see Charlie die yet doesn’t mean he is not going to. Rememebr this….Des only has flashes of things he would see with his own two eyes. So if he saw Charlie flip a switch and then drown afterwards he would have had to be in the station/hatch with Charlie for it to happen. Since we did not see Des down there this past episode we would have to assume that it will happen in the season finale when (and if) he joins Charlie down there.
Comment by Chris — May 21, 2007 @ 7:53 am
syko4bosco- I agree
i think it is a supreme waste to kill off characters at this point- what was the use, then, of us learning about their pasts in flashbacks and their characters if they are just going to be killed off for a cheap end of season thrill of the moment??
i can think of ten more exciting things to happen to characters than just having them die.
What was the use of all Charlie flashbacks if he just dies now?
Killing off characters is just lazy writing.
Any killing off of characters should be done at the end of the series, if at all. i would rather see the crazy things that happen to them, their interactions, their choices, as they find out about Dharma and Mittelos and all the forces on and off island, I have said for a long time on these boards that there can be some amazing chase and escape sequences to .
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 21, 2007 @ 7:57 am
Hey Doc, who’s to say that Desmond didn’t actually change the future by merely telling Charlie what he saw?
Comment by jimmyzer00 — May 21, 2007 @ 7:58 am
First of all:
1.) In each of the “Flashes” Desmond was there to witness what happens to Charlie. How else would he know what happens to Charlie it he doesn’t go in after him (Charlie).
2.) Desmond knew the hatch wasn’t flodded yet and he knew that he had to take the crossbow with him and he knew that Charlie hit him with the oar (like he knew Charlie took his guitar with him the last time).
3.) Desmond knew that the women were down there, he just didn”t tell Charlie, so Charlie wouldn’t be expecting them.
4.) Side note… Did the fact that Charlie was the forth person to save Nadia and this is the forth time Desmond has to save Charlie have anything to do with each other?
5.) Desmond saves Charlie, Charlie flips the switch, Desmond and Charlie leave the Hatch through the door going “Back to the Future” current time (Date May 23, 2007).
Charlie is Alice!
Comment by BrightGuy — May 21, 2007 @ 8:00 am
Jimmyzer00 - that’s exactly what I’m saying. This time, it was Desmond who caused Charlie to go on this mission. Charlie didn’t even know about the Looking Glass or the trasmission jamming or any of it until Desmond told him. No one would have approached Charlie to swim down, Charlie most likely wouldn’t have volunteered on his own…he only did it because Desmond told him to.
It’s just so…off…
Comment by syko4bosco — May 21, 2007 @ 8:06 am
I recon des didnt have a flash but was instead being cheeky and makin charlie go down because he thinks it will save the island.
Comment by Rory — May 21, 2007 @ 8:54 am
JimmyZer00 Exactly.
Until Cuselof tells me otherwise, I am certain that merely telling Charlie that he drowned profoundly changed Charlie. We know that Desmond has already changed the past, but what if he is the only one (except for maybe Locke) that retains conscious memories of events in the future.
Maybe Charlie subconsciously knew how important it was that he learn to swim, so when he lived that critical moment, again, he faced it with bravery rather than fear.
What if Charlie’s greatest hits were actually the moments that were his worst failures before arriving on the island? What if these were the poignant events that he was able to change to become the hero that could have always been with a little courage?
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 21, 2007 @ 9:23 am
My thoughts and the most obvious solution,: Desmond said Your in a hatch, you flick the switch and you drown, Has he flicked the switch yet NO. So there is your answer.
Comment by Thomas Harrison — May 21, 2007 @ 9:53 am
I think Desmond lied to Charlie. I think he knows that charlie initially survived.
Comment by justjared — May 21, 2007 @ 10:16 am
64 posts for this?!?! Seriously?!?! You may as well have asked why they aren’t off the island yet!!
It’s ONGOING. sheesh….
Comment by Big Ern — May 21, 2007 @ 10:44 am
The only question I still have is why would Des follow Charlie down to the hatch if he thought it was flooded. He would know that he would die as well….maybe while he’s out he has another vision that the hatch is occupied and knows Charlie will need help to accomplish his mission. There seems to be more to the vision than Des has told Charlie. I think this will be a very small part of the episode and the whereabouts of those two will be a mystery until next season.
Comment by cr — May 21, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Just because Charlie didn’t die in last week’s ep, doesn’t mean he won’t in this one. I still think he will drown, just like Desmond said. Desmond never said the Looking Glass was flooded. Juliet said that, based on what Ben told everyone. SO, I think there is still plenty of time for Charlie to die.
But, I wish it had been in the last episode. It would have been beautiful. Charlie fulfilling his destiny, voluntarily. It would have been totally different than every other death on the island. This one would have been chosen by charlie. I guess, if he dies in the finale, like I said above, then he still went voluntarily. But he fully expected to get into the hatch, swim to this button, push it, and die.
I do not think that Desmond lied.
Comment by Frank — May 21, 2007 @ 10:46 am
The reason why Desmond told Charlie to go down there was to mislead the two chicks down there.
Desmond knew they were there and wanted charlie to get caught: when the girls are bussy with charlie, Desmond wil show up and take controle over the station.
Charlie will turn of the switch and Desmond is there to save charlie from drowning.
mission accomplished: charlie still alive, and losties able to send an SOS.
Couls it be like this?
GRTZ
Comment by Tyson — May 21, 2007 @ 11:27 am
Maybe the switch that Charlie flips will be another fail-safe like the one Desmond turned in the Swan. Maybe Charlie will go back in time and get some weird powers! Maybe flipping the switch causes the Looking Glass to flood. I hope the season doesn’t end with Desmond stuck in the Looking Glass…unless Penny is down there or he can communicate with her from down there, maybe the island becomes visible again when the switch is turned.
Comment by thenumbersarebad — May 21, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Ben told the others that the hatch had flooded, and some people believe him and others think he is lying. I’m convinced, and I don’t read spoilers, that Ben mistakenly believes that the Looking Glass is flooded. I got the idea when watching the scene just before he kills his father. He picks up the doll given to him by his girlfriend, which makes me think that her absence drives him to enact the purge.
What if Ben was told that the Looking Glass flooded, killing his girlfriend, and that drove him to revenge against Dharma? And that if the blond girl inside the looking glass is the same girl? If she is, then does Ben know about her or not?
And Charlie will drown after flipping the switch, end of story. I like Charlie, so I’m hoping for it to be something of a technical death, ala Final Destination 2, where his heart stops, fulfilling the prophesy, and it starts up again saving him for later.
Comment by The Exile — May 21, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
The reason I believe Charlie isn’t going to die was so obvious I overlooked it until I re-watched Dez’s last ep. In Catch-22 Abraham and his son Isaac were constantly mentioned in his flashback. In the story once Abraham was willingly going to sacrifice his son another sacrifice was provided and his son didn’t have to die. Once Dez told Charlie that he had to die and accepted that Charlie had to be sacrificed for the greater good he doesn’t have to die and another sacrifice will be provided (perhaps a blond or brunette…or a communications wiz pirate enthusiast).
That’s my little theory anyway.
Comment by flash — May 21, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
You all have good posts… and someone may have suggested this, but I haven’t read them all yet. Actually David touched it lightly in his original posting.
I think that Charlie has cheated death. Desmond set this up in telling him, “Charlie… this time you HAVE to die!” Each time that Desmond has had a vision and told Charlie, they’ve walked into it with Charlie’s expectation of Desmond saving him. THIS time, by choosing to sacrifice himself, he has cheated death.
I believe that is what this has been about all along. Think about it… he’s a rock star, and what is the typical portrayal? Self-centered, self-absorbed. Instant gratification. And with the flashback last week of the girl he saved from the mugging… you could see the 2nd guessing in his eyes — “Do I do this or not?”. He did… and did you notice what she said to him… “Three others passed by without helping me.” Hmmm… for those of you who know the parables, does it remind you of the Good Samaritan at all?
Charlie won’t die… simply because this time around he offered himself freely… “Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” (Jesus)
Comment by PastorOso — May 21, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
I don’t know if anyone has touched on this, but, Charlie did whack Des in the head just before he dove in. Des’s time line jumps cooincide with severe blows to the head as we’ve seen. I am not convinced that Desmond might have successfully altered our presnet islnd timeline enough to save Charlie from drowning, but it seemed a kind of forced moent when Charlie knocked Des out, as though the writers needed Des to have another timeline jump.
Comment by BillyPilgrimm — May 21, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
I thought he meant flipping the switch would cause the station to flood causing him to dround.
Comment by Oroso — May 21, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
I think this is one of the most important tidbits that could end all this bickering:
Does everyone who believes Charlie won’t die in the finale really think that Carlton and Damon would have had Charlie leave his “DS” ring for Aaron? …and write Claire the greatest hits?
…that makes me think too, I’m curious to see if Desmond jumps in forgetting that he has the paper in his pocket still, or does he throw Charlie’s memento into the boat before he dives
Comment by Damon — May 21, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
The producers are just faking us out. They used this episode to get all the Charlie fans to watch, for one last hurrah and then didn’t kill him. He’ll either die in the next episode or he won’t (which I doubt now).
Comment by Garrett — May 21, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
I like billy’s comment about des going back in time after the blow to the head. That would be amazing plot!
So…does des know what’s going on. was there more to his vision we weren’t shown? that’s the thing w/ this show…unless we hear the characters talking by themselves or get a look into their minds, we can’t know if they’re telling the truth. Did desmond know all along that the Looking Glass wasn’t flooded? I wouldn’t put it past him.
someone mentioned something (a while back post-wise) about a close up of the Jacob-shack part. Is there anyway you could post that picture, because everything happened so fast in that episode and I missed it.
And as far as Charlie cheating death…is his willing to sacrifice himself enough to keep him alive? or will he have to go through with the sacrifice to fulfill his purpose?
Comment by kelpipper — May 21, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
I like billy’s comment about des going back in time after the blow to the head. That would be amazing plot!
So…does des know what’s going on. was there more to his vision we weren’t shown? that’s the thing w/ this show…unless we hear the characters talking by themselves or get a look into their minds, we can’t know if they’re telling the truth. Did desmond know all along that the Looking Glass wasn’t flooded? I wouldn’t put it past him.
someone mentioned something (a while back post-wise) about a close up of the Jacob-shack part. Is there anyway you could post that picture, because everything happened so fast in that episode and I missed it.
And as far as Charlie cheating death…is his willing to sacrifice himself enough to keep him alive? or will he have to go through with the sacrifice to fulfill his purpose?
Comment by kelpipper — May 21, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
What if Charlie altered his fate by hitting desmond over the head???
A bit of a long shot but maybe desmond saw himself pressing the switch and something happened to Charlie on the boat????
Bit of a different view on it but i could happen mab!!!
Comment by Nick Sconey — May 21, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
The question for me isn’t “why isn’t Charlie dead?”(his events have yet to play out)
But i ask, “why isn’t the looking glass flooded?”
bare with me here, as i understand i’m speaking in technicalities, and as we all know with lost, technicalities are often forgotten. but i just have to bring this up as NOBODY seems to have realized this,
The looking glass is essentially a box(for lack of a better term) in the ocean w/ a hole cut in the bottom of it. So that being said, why isn’t the water filling the station?
I’m reminded of the scene in Pirates/carribean where a few men walk on the bottom of the ocean with a boat over their head that creates an “air bubble” where water doesn’t fill up to the top. This is essentially the same thing, is it not?
Shouldn’t water have filled up the hatch through the huge gap at the bottom of the “box”
Again, i realize i’m getting nit-picky, but it just surprised me that nobody seems to realize that the station, as is, should already be flooded.
Comment by Dr. Nope — May 21, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
@Dr. Nope.
Take a large bowl and fill it with water. Take a small cup, turn it upside down, and place it in the water. You will notice that the air remains in the cup and it doesn’t fill up, no matter how far down you push it.
Same thing with the boat and TLG station. It’s actually very common for underwater stations.
If you tip the cup, water will start to fill in…. my guess…. when the button is pushed, it’ll tilt TLG.
Comment by d3bruts1d — May 21, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
d3bruts1d,
Good stuff, being that i’m on my first week of summer vacation i actually had the time to do this little science project.
Now i know why that smarter than a 5th grader show works…. I vaguely remember doing this stuff in grade school, once. Then 15 years later, after not thinking about, it actually comes into play.
sorry, bout that rant then. apparently everything is still on the up and up.
Comment by Dr. Nope — May 21, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Thanks for the hit and run, dan.
Comment by Dusk — May 21, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
****!!!! Arg, i got a peek at the forbidden fruit. CURSE YOU PEOPLE WHO SPOILED IT!!!!
Comment by taylor — May 21, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
….and so the purposeful spoiling continues.
At this point, it’s not even pissing me off anymore.
Hey, dan and sert (and anyone else who may decide to be an idiot in these comments), guess what? Your little plea for attention there - 23482348234823 people did it before you. You’re not even original. Leave your parents’ basement and get a job already.
Comment by KrissyLove — May 21, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
Very simply he didn’t flip the switch yet, he flips a switch the ocean comes in and he is a goner.
Comment by vahan solar — May 21, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
so many ideas, here’s one.
desmond was lying to give charlie the strength to go down there.
Comment by Keely. — May 21, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
Ok, so is this how it’s going to be now, people just posting outright spoilers in the COMMENTS of articles? So ppl like me who don’t read spoilers can’t read ANYTHING now because it’s all going to be little kids who can’t keep the cat in the bag spilling it out so they can feel cool?
Whatever.
Comment by KJ — May 21, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
First of all, I agree that letting loose with the ‘Forbidden Fruit’ is truly bad form. Many of us (myself included) did not know until Dan and Sert came shove the ‘knowledge’ in front of us. -Tres tacky.
Secondly, lots of different theories out there. I have another, but there’s too many as is. I will say that it DOES seem dubious that Desmond has led Charlie into this of his own doing -whether or not he lied about it.
Yes, I KNOW that Charlie has yet to be in the actual circumstances Desmond told him of, but the women in the hatch that torture him throw a good sized snag into the likelihood of it occurring.
The most important thing to remember in all of this is the the following: Charlie came to the island as a washed up, one hit wonder who had become a down on his luck junkie thug. From the time of the crash, Charlie has done everything he could to help and protect his new ‘family.’ If he does die now, he dies as a romantic hero instead of a washed up junkie. So for those of us pulling for Charlie -if he dies, he dies a good death.
Finally, remember this all. Whether or not you want to add the word yet, the fact of the matter is that right now -CHARLIE IS ALIVE!!! -rejoice!
Comment by Sandman — May 21, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
Hi, I’m from Argentina… What I think is that Desmond has flashes and doasn’t know the exact time or date of the flashes, so he might have seen Charlie swim and everything, buy the part where he presses the button and dies might be later, possibly in “Trough the looking glass”… I actually think that Charlie wont die. I think they have a much more amazing twist in the story that will leave all of us happy and anxious to see the 4th season…
Comment by Nicolas — May 21, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
F— that. ok, no where is safe. I am not going to any lost site for the next few days. i REALLY hope none of what FunTime said wasn’t the snake in the mail box. All you spoiler people suck really really hard.
Comment by taylor — May 21, 2007 @ 8:32 pm
First-time poster, delurking to say that I am absolutely appalled at the level of immaturity by some people on this and other boards. Posting spoilers, whether they turn out to be true or not, is downright rude and inconsiderate. I hope something is done to make sure that people like this are banned so that they don’t ruin the experience for other fans.
Comment by shellinla — May 21, 2007 @ 9:42 pm
Shellinla said, “Posting spoilers, whether they turn out to be true or not, is downright rude and inconsiderate.”
I have to also say that posting total finale spoilers (even if they’re posted behind cuts with warnings like ‘DANGER’ and ‘SPOILERS’) is also rude and inconsiderate… and irresponsible. You have to realize that knee-jerk cretins are going to read them and then spam these spoilers in the form of unwarned comments on multiple websites. They read them and then start discussing them all over the place as if they were common knowledge. In some cases, I’m sure they deliberately post them where they’re not expected in order to maliciously spoil (see: ruin) the finale for others.
I’ve had so much of the finale spoiled (see: ruined) for me due to some people’s refusal to confine spoilers to spoiler sections, and some people’s insistence on posting total spoilers in the naive hope (see: turning a blind eye) that cretins won’t be cretins.
I am outta here until after the finale airs. No disrespect to DocArzt because none of this is his fault.
Comment by Lance — May 21, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Doc, post their IPs. At least FunTime’s. You know you want to. C’mon, let us have some fun!!!
Or anyone else who has some crazy software and can find that stuff out, do your thing. I fully encourage it and demand justice.
Comment by KrissyLove — May 21, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
PS: Fun_Time, you are a FULL TIME, first-class douchebag.
And now that I’ve said that, I can continue on with my day….
Comment by KrissyLove — May 21, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
I think Desmond was partially lying to Charlie…
In the season finale sneak preview we see Desmond diving too.. and we see him inside the looking glass !!
Now why would Desmond ever dive down there if he wasn’t aware of the fact that the station is not flooded with water… if he wasn’t sure to be able to breath down there ????
Probably Desmond saw himself as well in the flashes, or maybe he was supposed to dive instead of Charlie, that’s why at the very end of the episode he tries to take his place… tryin’ not to be the coward people always called him.
Anyway.. he knows it ain’t flooded.
Comment by diego — May 21, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
god! stop bitching already! In the finale, as far as he is concerned…charlie dies heroically just as desmond described…while in a random part of the hatch, Mikael (who he thought was dead) is about to set off a grenade so charlie seals that part of the hatch by slamming the door to keep des from drowning. After the grenade explodes, the room fills up with water and charlie drowns. The last thing he does before he dies is tell des that its “not penny’s boat” by writing it on his hand.
Comment by brihanaban — May 22, 2007 @ 12:27 am
I’m still successfully avoiding spoilers, but I can see the idiots are still abound, so I’ll post this and be out till Wednesday after LOST.
Has anyone contemplated the name “the looking glass?” Forgive me if someone else said this (I’m sure one of the crew a.k.a. Prez, Tabula, Thirdflr, Muscle_Bob, Jimyy, Gusteaux, JimyZer0, Merlboroman, Bdub, etc. caught on), but could it be a reference to the invisibility of the island? What if flicking this yellow switch suddenly makes the island visible? You would think that someone would have to make it invisible again until season 6, but it would seem to me that the name of our new hatch is more important than we know…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 22, 2007 @ 12:37 am
Cap10, been missing you. There is an increase of middle school boys trying to make up for their awkward social skills by ruining the experience of this site for the rest of us. This is a great site with a great community, so I refuse to let them ruin it. I think there have been some pretty good discussions about the Looking Glass in other threads. Personally, I see two possible references:
1. The Alice in Wonderland sequel, where there is another reality on the other side of the mirror. Reinforced by the White Rabbit imagery.
2. The psychological principle of Looking Glass Self (I took my kids to Shrek the Third which is a good study in this). This essentially says that you make judgments about yourself based on how others see you.
One of the interesting elements of this hatch is the anchor. If the hatch is in fact the doorway to the island, then the anchor (cable) may be anchoring the island to reality. Since it blocks communication, according to Juliet, it would also be a filter for information that gets to and from the island. Possibly things seen in the flame station from the outside would have been delivered via the Looking Glass.
On the psychological principle, if you change the reflection then you change and save the world.
There are a lot of great theories out their. You just have to dig through the crap to get to them right now.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 22, 2007 @ 5:52 am
I dont know if this has been raised yet, but has anyone considered a matrix style reason as to why desmonds visions predicted his death and he didnt die.
like the oracle she didnt really tell people the future instead she guided them. Maybe this is what the island is doing to Desmond, not allowing him seeing the future, but manipulating him so that there is an effect on future events.
If charlie hadn’t believed it was his destiny to die he would not have taken the risk and swam down (like neo going after morpheus), the island wanted him down there- it couldnt ask, so it manipulated.
Comment by tigers_hungry — May 22, 2007 @ 5:55 am
The inconsiderate pricks who wanted all the spoilers argued - that they were posted on a spoiler site and all one had to do was not visit said site if they didn’t want to be spoiled. But now so you pricks can have your cake and eat it too, I can’t visit any LOST site? Because you just HAVE to ruin it for us? I suspect you all do that because, in your heart, you know you ruined it for yourself by exercising that “free choice” to read ‘em, and now seek to force others into sharing your pain.
Comment by Dusk — May 22, 2007 @ 6:03 am
@cap10tripps-thank you, great idea!
I think Desmond knows more than he lets on. Anyone who knows how to-save the world, brothah- should be talking more than he has.
And I am not convinced Charlie or Desmond dies in the finale.
Comment by lostjunkie — May 22, 2007 @ 6:26 am
i think charlies death hasnt happend yet i reackon that charlie will get away from the two chicks and flip the switch by the yellow light then somehow will begin to flood or someone else will be in the hatch(mikihail) u see mikihail on the bech shooting someone/something in the finale promo proberly desmond on his boat then mikihail blows up the hatch killing charlie when it fllods….tell me wat u think of this ”THEORY”
Comment by joker — May 22, 2007 @ 8:59 am
If you pay VERY close attention to the promos, it pretty much gives it all away.
Mikhail plays a part, he does ‘drown’, but not in the way you’d think.
So, something to bite over
So… I still gotta watch to see if he accomplishes his task or if its another bad attempt
Comment by jake3988 — May 22, 2007 @ 9:20 am
I used to like when I could actually read info on this site without finding some bullshit spoiler floating in the comments…it’s fun to hear what others think and thats the point of this section…it’s what others “think”….not post what you scoured the internet for and found out. i bet u fuggin tools still waste that 2 hours of your day watchin it neways…probably tellin everyone you watch it with what happens before every scene…thats assuming are less of a douchebag in real life and can actually get people to watch it with u…Ur right Krissy, if they take the time to grow up they’ll truly realize the douchebags they are
Comment by Damon — May 22, 2007 @ 9:38 am
DOC IS THERE NETHING U CAN DO ABOUT TRASH LIKE THAT????
…it really is ruining your site
Comment by Damon — May 22, 2007 @ 9:44 am
He just swam into the submarine bay already, like everything is supposed to happen at once?! Charlie will probably die next week…
Comment by JoeLiberty — May 22, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Yo, Cap10. We are still around…cautiously reading only posts from familiar names who I know are not going to drop spoiler bombs. I too am still unspoiled…and very thankful to be so. Looking forward to some lively discussions beginning Thursday! By the way, anyone know what’s happened to docarzt? He hasn’t posted anything since Sunday!
Comment by gusteaux — May 22, 2007 @ 10:44 am
@ gusteaux - he said something about having major surgery last week I think, maybe he’s not feeling well?
I still say someone get the bastards’ IP addresses and post them anywhere you possibly can. I don’t know if that’s illegal or not, but it’d sure as hell be entertaining….
Comment by KrissyLove — May 22, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Thanks for the update Krissy…and I do like the way you think!
Comment by gusteaux — May 22, 2007 @ 11:07 am
I have to agree with Damon. I made it all the way till today, w/o getting spoiled, until i read fun-time posts.
He started arguing a point, then just jumped strait into the forbidden fruit.
Doc, this is ruining your site. I’m infuriated and at a loss as to what to do.
Comment by Dr. Nope — May 22, 2007 @ 11:23 am
New to the site. It seems really good.
I like this theory a lot, But I have my own little theory that Desmond’s visions are just possibilities of what COULD happen. I don’t think that any of his “visions” would happen if he didn’t tell charlie or try to make them happen.
I’m not reading spoilers about the finale, but I’m perfectley fine with other people doing so as long as they don’t post the spoilers all over the site. So please keep your spoilers to yourself unless you’re on a spoiler thread/site.
Comment by lost chicka — May 22, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
I think Desmond deceived Charlie. I think he knew that Charlie would not drown, but rather led him up toward where he was supposed to go by pretending to stand in his place. I think with Charlie as a decoy, Desmond now will be able to swim down and turn off the switch, it’s actually his mission. That being said, Charlie will still die in the season finale.
Comment by Dave — May 22, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
I think Charlie still gets it in the end, we haven’t seen the yellow light with the switch he is suppose to flip.
We’ll see this happen in the finale I bet, and after that happens then maybe he drowns. Poor Charlie, he’ll leave a big hole to be filled, I’ll miss him!
Comment by Danni UK — May 22, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
Oh. To me, Desmond’s vision made me think that Charlie hits the switch and then dorwned, like water came or something. But the way you said it makes WAY more sense into why Charlie was so damn happy. Wow. okay. atleast now i understand… i wonder why i didnt get that, probably because i thought that the underwater station wouldnt be flooded. How do those moon hole things work anyways?
Comment by Benji Leew — May 22, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
I think that NOR Charlie NOR Desmond will die.
Desmond saves Charlie again,im sure they’ll find a way out of the looking glass.
Stupid that the makers call it a “hatch”….
Why would the looking glass fload just by flipping a communication switch??That makes no sense at all.
Desmond can not die now because there is still some essential stuff we need to know about him and his link with the island, his visions, the women who travels in time, and Penny.
Charlie can’t die because it would make no sense dying after turning off a switch.would be stupid and annoying.
(if he gets shot by one of the girls , i could cope with that.Drowning on the orher hand….my advice to Charlie : try to find some diversgear and then turn off the switch.It’s an underwater station for christ sake: there must be some kind of bottled air somewhere.)
I doubt that the forbidden fruit spoiler would be true.
Can the makers realy be that stupid to leak such essential and detailled info about a season finale episode, so that someone could post it on a site??
I realy doubt that…
Anyway lets find out very soon..
grtz
Comment by Tyson — May 22, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Well i read the FF (forbidden fruit) for Greatest Hits…(after the episode aired of course) and it was spot on……does anyone think there is still a chance that the FF for the finale is a foiler?
Comment by taylor — May 22, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
I think that Desmond’s flashes are some higher power (the Island, God?) guiding him, and in doing so helping he and the rest of the castaways to survive for some greater purpose.
I think he was being tested when he was told by Mrs. Hawkin that it did no good to alter fate’s course because the universe would always course correct. The references to the story of Abraham in Catch-22 and the monk’s comments that Desmond perhaps had a higher calling reinforces this. God or Smokey or the Island wanted to see if he would do the right thing, even if he thought it was pointless and might cause him personal pain.
Just because Desmond see’s a different final result when he alters his visions by saving Charlie doesn’t make it a bad thing. I’m convinced that he was supposed to save Charlie all along, so that Charlie could perform this mission.
Desmond’s job is to see future events and do the right thing.
Charlie’s job is to swim down to the hatch, and do the right thing.
The castaways are there to accomplish what Dharma couldn’t. To save the world from catastrophe, or die trying.
Comment by berryjooks — May 22, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
@ taylor - I do
I haven’t read all of it, but what I did read, I don’t believe. I would be wonderously happy if I were to watch tonight and it was all wrong, would really make the shotgun-spoiler people look like idiots.
Personally, I think it’s a clever rouse from The Powers That Be, seems a little too convenient to me….
Comment by KrissyLove — May 23, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
Personally, I think Desmond didn’t tell Charlie the truth, because it’s the only way he could get hiim down there with him… Desmond needs Charlie down there for some reason.
Remember: We didn’t actually SEE Desmond’s flash (we saw most of the others), we’re just taking Desmond’s word on it.
Comment by Bryan — May 23, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
@ KrissyLove - plus, how GENIUS would that be if they released full spoilers for Greatest Hits (an episode that wasnt amazing…but set up an amazing finale) as to gain the spoilers crediblility…then give fake spoilers for the AMAZING finale…ugh. i would love them so so so soooo much.
Comment by taylor — May 23, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
@ KrissyLove - plus, how GENIUS would that be if they released full spoilers for Greatest Hits (an episode that wasnt amazing…but set up an amazing finale) as to gain the spoilers crediblility…then give fake spoilers for the AMAZING finale…ugh. i would love them so so so soooo much.
Comment by taylor — May 23, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
im pretty sure that Charlie didn’t have to die, he just thought that in order to fulfill Desmond’s prediction he had to die. i hope that charlie comes back in some way or another. because if you think about it. pretty much everyone that has died on the island has come back in some way or another. not like shannon or the brazillian or his girlfriend but like important people. like echo or bens mom. i just hope that this isnt the end of charlie
Comment by millman — May 27, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
awk well. guess this blog wont matter after season 3 finale!
Comment by funkychick1325 — May 27, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Charlie is not dead. In season four there is a newly discovered hatch called the orchid. In this hatch you are able to reverse time, which is what they have done with the rabbit, they duplicated the rabbit. It is mentioned that if the two rabbits ere to make eye contact, or even get close to each other, the course of time can be altered. Guess what happens with ben’s rabbit. Guess what happens to charlie.
Comment by Aidan — January 20, 2008 @ 9:32 pm
I believe Charlie never died in the first place. After all, we never did seem him officially dead. Think about it, right after desmond turned away, someone probably pulled out of the water and performed CPR on him or something. I know this doesn’t sound totally accurate, but I believe something like that happened and we just wont see it until Season 5!!
Comment by Vincent — September 2, 2008 @ 1:09 pm