Spoilers Ate My Brain!
Here I am with another round of 100% certified, insider-info free spoilage drawn directly from the materials officially released by ABC!
What I’ve done here is studied the events portrayed by their time of day and by who seems to be in control. As you can see, it is fairly easy to form a time-line and "fill in the blanks" of what has become known as "The Forbidden Fruit" AKA "The Spoilers of which I will not speak." No polls necessary!
I’ve given you the rough idea, you can use your imaginations to flesh these out even further, but suffice to say ABC marketing has given us a big chunk of information between the US and CTV promo’s from which to splice together a reasonable, yet vague, blow by blow.
The Expedition and The Encounter
The expedition to the radio tower takes off. Note Hurley in red shirt with Vincent, and Sawyer to the right behind Jack. Danielle is leading.
Meanwhile Charlie is being tortured by the women of the "Looking Glass."
Note: Sawyer is still with the group
Richard is there, so Ben still has some of his "others" there. Proof that he controls the room. For now.
Patchy is with them as well. Snazzy new black shirt. Way to go patchy.
They hear the explosions, and Ben tries to contact Pryce. During the confusion a couple of LOSTies, primarily Sawyer and Hurley (proven below) sneak off to check out things on the beach when the third explosion doesn’t go off (Rose says there was supposed to be three explosions.) Somebody slips up and Ben catches wind of the "Looking Glass" being infiltrated. (Maybe they radio him?) He sends Mikhail to "take care of it."
Hmm… static… wtf… (adjusts rabbit ears)
(UPDATE! Props to ‘Sayid it isn’t so’ for catchthing this 1 day, and 23 hours ago. Yes, I am really that slow!)
Can we extrapolate that the dynamic duo made it back in time to do some kung fu of their own on Pryce and the boys? Would three failures in one day be enough for Richard and the other "Others" to cast a vote of no confidence in our boy Ben? My, how things have changed from the beginning of the season, now Ben is the one in bondage. But where is John Locke, did Alpert go to help him?
Looks like things went well in the looking glass with Des seeming to have the upper hand, will the call be made?
Remember, even if you ate the forbidden fruit, do not use to comment on this time-line.
UPDATE: Some of you think I’m bonkers about that being Ben check out this ultra hires blowup. You can see that Danielle is stooped forward as if she is ‘pulling’ something behind her, and her left arm is crossed across her torso as if she is holding something off to her side with both hands.
You can see that the person to her right, behind her, has Ben’s hairline, Ben’s colored shirt, and it is buttoned approximately the same way. Logical conclusion? It’s Ben.
Click To Enlarge
love it doc. great detective work.
Comment by johobi — May 19, 2007 @ 3:44 pm
I like it, I like it a lot, and its would I would very much like to see happen.
BUT
We all know that the end of the season isnt going to be happy is it, when does a season ever finish well for the good guys? (with the exception of 24 because jack bauer is god, and even then it usually only ends up well for him, and sometimes not even for him)
Its a good theory and I like it, but I cant see it happening all like that.
Comment by Sheepboy — May 19, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
GREAT WORK!! Sounds like you write the episodes ;o) and I think we all know that this season (like all others) will end with a shocking moment!!!
Comment by Joey — May 19, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
It’s Not Ben… Look at the Last Screen, see the t-shirt color, hair color, etc. and then look at screen #2, Same guy is behind Danielle, and it’s NOT ben.
Comment by Chris Clegg — May 19, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
It is Ben. If you download the hi-res video, you’ll see he is bound at the wrist and being dragged by Danielle. I’ll do a multi-frame strip though just to prove… give me a few minutes.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
I think this is right and I think for once, in a small sense, the Others WON’T have the upper hand and it’s about goddamn time too.
That being said Doc, nice way of slipping in a snide remark about Dark. It was you I saw over there telling him not to reveal what he has. Why? Is it b/c you truly don’t want it out there (which I doubt since you’re supposing on things)….or is it b/c you’re pizzed that someone else beat you to the punch and outspoiled you…
This isn’t meant in disrespect but I disagree with your sentiment that you’re not a true fan if you get truly spoiled. A true fan is someone that decides for themselves what they do or don’t want to know and doesn’t judge others for the decision they make.
For the record, TPTB won’t kill off Sayid, Bernard and Jin, I so don’t think they will.
Comment by Cha Cha — May 19, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
“Remember, even if you ate the forbidden fruit, do not use to comment on this time-line.”
Thank you for that, doc
Now, that’s very, very interesting. Hm…. I just hope it’s Mikhail that ends up in the water, and not Charlie or Desmond.
I could never have put all that together by myself. Bravo! Absolutely can’t *wait* to see how it all plays out.
Comment by KrissyLove — May 19, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
I mean…you ARE the MAN!I read the forbitten fruit but this felt SO healthy!!Simply observing the promo felt SO GOOD!
I m trying to fight the good fight over at the spoil/don’t spoil poll for the people who are gonna be shotgun spoiled and for CC and DL who put such hard work on the show but I don’t think things will turn out right.
Comment by we2 — May 19, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
Doc….I got nothing. Be my BFF please
Comment by jimmy zer00 — May 19, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Hey, DarkUFO is my friend and always will be. You can quote me on that. But mark my words, the poll business over there is a ploy to get votes, people are gaming the poll like mad, in the end what he’ll publish won’t be much more detailed than this and probably didn’t even come from Lostfan108. Heck, his first round didn’t come from Lostfan108, it was just a copy paste from AICN. I call shennanigans! But I’m a webmaster too, so quietly… I salute…
But yeah, people who don’t get spoiled do enjoy the episode more. Its all about the surprises. There is a difference between being surprised with the aesthetic environment that the directors, actors, and writers create (and editors and soundtrack folk too), and being surprised by some crude grammatically challenged passage of silent words on a screen.
But remember, my rant was against those who spread the spoilers without caution. NOT the people who read them. you’re absolutely right that my opinion on how to properly enjoy art is up for challenge. But spoiling without warning is just wrong, and it’s not what we should do as a community of fans.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
“This isn’t meant in disrespect but I disagree with your sentiment that you’re not a true fan if you get truly spoiled. A true fan is someone that decides for themselves what they do or don’t want to know and doesn’t judge others for the decision they make.”
Absolutely, I agree….BUT, I don’t think a ‘true fan’ would post die-hard, in-depth, “100 proof” spoilers like a finale summary if it fell into their arms. Because that’s like taking a dump on the hood of Cuse and Lindelof’s cars…it’s just disrespect to their work, I think.
- Giovanni
Comment by CyHunter — May 19, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Right on man.
Comment by docarzt — May 19, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
Doc, is it possible to take away your vote from the Hugo cup. I cant vote for somebody that cant share the credit for this find.
Comment by Sayid it aint so — May 19, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Sayid it aint so: I always give props dude. Point to your find and I’m behind you 100%. But I didn’t read anybody elses analysis in coming up with the timeline.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
exactly.Plain and simple when the sh*t hits the fan (and I believe leaking the detailed sinopsis on the net constitutes sh*t hitting the fan for the show) you have to respect the WORK that the show is.People are talking about “freedom of speech” but as I said over at the “battlefield” what about the right of an artist to protect his work?
And let’s not kid our selfs, what freedom of speech?Giving away these spoilers is giving people a peek on copyrighted material, freedom of speech is taking a bath while all of this is happening…..
I know the guy emailed you etc etc but I have a tiny tiny hope some of it is foiler material.Yes hope dies last…
Comment by we2 — May 19, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
This is just the best LOST website ever…
Comment by Parris — May 19, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
Got you covered Sayid is aint so!
(UPDATE! Props to ‘Sayid it isn’t so’ for catchthing this 1 day, and 23 hours ago. Yes, I am really that slow!)
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
My post was a reply to CyHunter’s comment. Also, I want to take my vote back from the hugo cup.I wasn’t mad when the debate started over at the DU site but after the poll is being stated as cheated by so many and DARK NOT taking a position of responsability I am pissed off.And I am a DU resident danmn it!I m so dissapointed.
Comment by we2 — May 19, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
I agree
And doc, you’re right about it being all about the surprises. I have so much respect for you that you can post spoilers and still keep that in mind, still keep the art aspect of it in tact, and help me keep the enjoyment of my favorite show while at the same time making me go “ooooooh!” and making the next episode - whether it be the finale or an episode in the middle of the season - more enjoyable. It’s *fun* to speculate before hand, I’d never live the seven days between episodes if I didn’t. But I don’t want to know for sure what’s going to happen, *that’s* ruining it.
You made the right choice. And while you may lose visitors for it, who cares? The ones who will leave are either too hard-headed to understand what you’re saying, or are the jerks that are spoiling the finale for people who don’t want to be spoiled anyway. Major props to you. Yeah, it’ll probably leak eventually *somewhere*, but it won’t be on your conscience.
Comment by KrissyLove — May 19, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
we2… this isn’t the “battlefield.” I sympathize with your frustration, but its Dark’s fight not mine. I think at the root of it, Dark is milking it for all its worth. He has very little to add to the spoilers that AICN leaked. He did not get that info from Lostfan108 as has been proven, it was merely a copy paste, and I can only assume that anything more he is going to post is something along the lines of what I did here. If you added “The Forbidden Fruit” to what I’ve done, you could have the whole episode nailed pretty easily.
Part of what I wanted to do was illustrate that point. It’s easy after someone has leaked all the critical points, and you have two promos that spill alot of timeline info, to stitch it all together. Ultimately, the debate will be nothing but a boon of traffic.
I will say openly, and I hate to be critical of my friend Dark, but thinking the poll would take him off the hook is not one of his wisest moves. If 100,000 people wrote Bush and asked him to nuke Iran, and 99,999 wrote him and asked him not to, he’d still be the guy pushing the button.
If he’s trying to avoid the wrath of TPTB, he’s going about it the wrong way by claiming that he is under the influence of his majority.
Now, is TPTB pissed at the kind of work I’ve done here? I highly doubt it.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
are you sure you wasn’t pissed at dark ufo for posting the spoilers,you seem to go on about it a lot,maybe i’m wrong but i think you were probably pissed at dark uf after all, don’t know why if you atethe forbidden fruit
Comment by nickk — May 19, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
The reason for pretending is this: I would be writing these sorts of articles/analysis if the spoilers hadn’t come out. The spoilers came out, so now I have, basically, nothing to write about. So I’m just doing my exercise as I normally would. And guess what, I’ve given more plot structure than the Lostfan108 spoilers gave just using the promos.
Lostfan’s spoilers were just the big twists. Sloppy, thoughtless. This is the state of the art. If you can’t handle it, go back to cut and paste land.
The big problem is this… does Dark really have anything that is going to be as damaging or detailed as the Lostfan108 spoilers? No. You could add my exercise to the AICN spoilers and come up with an insiderscoop classed synopsis. (Which isn’t saying much, by the way.)
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Um…. the forbidden fruit was published a day before Dark published it, on AICN. I could have actually posted it before him. But that is neither here nor there is it? As much as I like DarkUFO he really attracts some idiots. I’m not in the race to be first with a spoiler, and I never publish a ruiner. But its sad that you people come here thinking that I’m jealous that I wasn’t the first to cut and paste. Sad for you, not for me.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
If he’s doing it to generate traffic, he’s definitely accomplished that. All it’s turned into is an all out circular-logic slugfest from both sides, totally stirred up hate, and if he was really so concerned about his conscience, he should’ve consulted other website administrators and not *US*, in my opinion.
But doc, I’m wondering if there will be serious reproccussions if he posts it. Do you think he’ll just lose all his sources, or do you think TPTB will actually take some kind of action? I apologise if I’m being too nosy, but man…. that’s not something *I’d* wanna mess with.
Ooooh, and the death toll is wrong? THANK YOU! That was one of the bits I inadvertantly stumbled upon, and thought was ruined for me. Excellent!
Comment by KrissyLove — May 19, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
No the damage is already done for perpetuating the AICN spoilers. If you add a little informed speculation like what I’ve done here, you can clean it up… but there is nothing that the source has to add at this point that is going to spoiler it further. It’s kind of like shooting a guy in the foot after putting a bullet through his brain. I think the ploy to absolve himself by putting it on his fans is not going to help him in the least, either.
The bottom line is, he was a prominent link in the chain of spoiling the finale’s biggest surprise. They aren’t going to forgive and forget about it.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
I’ve never really liked the tail section because theres nothing on it that can’t be found on Dark UFO. However, Dark lost a lot of respect when he posted those spoilers. If you are a fan of Lost, you won’t spoil it to thousands of people. And he should of known that there would have been repurcussions. People can’t even go on IMDB, 4815162342.com forum, and others just because of DarkUFO.
Face it, if Dark didn’t post it no one would have taken it seriously and not alot of people would of read it.
DocArtz what you did was respectful.
Also, DarkUFO has had in his screencaps for the trailer that its Ben in the background if u click on that pic on Dark’s site so its not really Sayid who found it out.
Comment by Auroni — May 19, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
Thanks Doc, I know you have more important things to write about than what i was speculating about. Thanks for all that you do. I love your site and your insight you give about our favorite show LOST.
Comment by Sayid it aint so — May 19, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Auroni. With all due respect I don’t think you are looking at the big picture. This site is all about original content and commentary on the news. There is very little cut and paste here. Aside from that, I’ve interviewed the producers, the writers, some of the cast, personally. Not just cut and paste an article from somewhere else. In terms of gathering tidbits from mainstream sources, your right. I have no desire to make this site a clearinghouse for other peoples copyrighted work, unless they ask me to. So in gathering from other news sources, Dark has me hands down. But I’m not even competing in that arena.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
Nah the props are valid. Looks like we were both scooped in Dark’s comments though.
Comment by DocArzt — May 19, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
What a tangled web we weave…
This might’ve worked better than we anticipated (but then, all that was needed was a heaping pile of truth to bury the lie within it).
You’ll come to understand this Wednesday. Enjoy.
Friend
Comment by Friend — May 19, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
I like this DOC. i like that you posted pictures one by one and put the story ,line in it. it made me forget the “forbidden fruit” i ate. lol. I really hope the Losties will have the upper hand this time, but i’m sure it’s not going to end in sentiments & happiness, rather a shock and “wha????”. lol. Although i’m all for the mushy and good stuff
Comment by LiLi — May 19, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
Can’t we all just get along? I feel like in the midst of all this, everyone has lost sight of why we’re even talking about this: we’re all here cause we love the greatest show on TV. Here’s what it boils down to:
1)if you’ve read the spoilers, that’s cool, just don’t spoil it for people who don’t want to, and
2)if you haven’t read the spoilers (like myself), just be careful what you read
Its FINALE TIME, people! It’s like Christmas, it only comes once a year. We should be discussing how awesome “Greatest Hits” was and how even more awesome the finale will be. DarkUFO and Doc both run great Lost sites, so let’s just enjoy the anticipation of the next few days. Because after that there’s no more Lost for 8 months. I sure don’t wanna ruin my excitement with petty arguments about things that won’t even matter a week from now.
-Justin-
Comment by Justin — May 19, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Can’t we all just get along? I feel like in the midst of all this, everyone has lost sight of why we’re even talking about this: we’re all here cause we love the greatest show on TV. Here’s what it boils down to:
1)if you’ve read the spoilers, that’s cool, just don’t spoil it for people who don’t want to, and
2)if you haven’t read the spoilers (like myself), just be careful what you read
Its FINALE TIME, people! It’s like Christmas, it only comes once a year. We should be discussing how awesome “Greatest Hits” was and how even more awesome the finale will be. DarkUFO and Doc both run great Lost sites, so let’s just enjoy the anticipation of the next few days. Because after that there’s no more Lost for 8 months. I sure don’t wanna ruin my excitement with petty arguments about things that won’t even matter a week from now.
PS - Love the detective work doc
-Justin-
Comment by Justin — May 19, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but here is a shot just after the one above. Suddenly, Jack is confronted by no other than Ben and look at the man now behind Danielle. It is definitely NOT Ben.
I SO wanted it to be.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/MagnoliaSoutherly/lost/17086.png
Comment by magnoliasouth — May 20, 2007 @ 3:33 am
when I said “battlefield” I meant the poll that was going on over at the DU site and not you and DArk.You and Dark is you and Dark It’s not for me to judge it.
Comment by we2 — May 20, 2007 @ 4:23 am
I think whoever is the leak in the production staff should be fired and never allowed to work in television again.
This is going to have major consequences on production. All of you spoiler junkies that had to have this info has ruined for all of us. Don’t be surprised if the producers stop talking to Ausiello and Kristen. Don’t be surprised if they stop doing podcasts..(isn’t it weird how the last podcast isn’t up yet?) And don’t be surprised if Ryan from the Transmission stops being able to take set pics and giving updates.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 20, 2007 @ 4:46 am
Maybe I’m jumping the gun here…
But what about season 4 and the remaining 48 episodes after this weeks final?
So far it looks like they decided not to kill Ben?
I wonder how many “others” will still be around… Will the good guys/bad guys scenario change in any way?
Will this episode end before Dec. 26 2004 island time?
(Last one was Dec. 23rd, this will be 24th and 25th?)
((Will the last episode be Feb. 11th 2005 island time?))
I see that Penny is listed to appear… Prolly in Jack’s flashback… Or will she reprise her season ending real-time appearance of last year?
Will Claire leave in a hellicoptor?
On the subject of the remaining 48 episodes:
Will it be 40+ eps before any outside contact is made? Or till anyone actually gets off the island?
How many NEW island guest will arive?
Will Sun give birth and survive?
Do things stay burried on the island?
How many characters will survive 48 episodes?
How many ways will “found” be defined?
And the biggest question of them all-
What’s up with Hurley and the numbers?
-Just one last peculiar thing:
Is this Lost releated?
Billy Dee Williams to star in a General Hospital spin-off called “GH: Night Shift”
Also a baby born last week on General Hospital named Jaccob.
-My source said there is no connection, but she also told me she had a secret.
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 20, 2007 @ 4:47 am
Good work Doc. You are the thinking person’s Lost Spoiler site. I love Dark’s site too, and there has been some Shenanigans going on over there, Dark even admitted that some people were rigging his voting.
I think Wednesday night, we’ll all be saying What????
After Lost goes off, whether we ate the forbidden fruit or not.
Back on topic, Ben is in a bad place again. That is great!
Juliette went with Sawyer??? Say it ain’t so. I hope Sawyer keeps an eye out for her double cross. I still don’t trust her.
Comment by Blackrockbob — May 20, 2007 @ 5:06 am
You delivered this timeline with such grace! not like the awful spoiled-rotten-spoiler, and there is so much detail and proof, wow, this is why the tail is home and dark is just too dark.
Comment by OxfordAngel — May 20, 2007 @ 5:41 am
it better be patchy and not des that falls in the water, but i think desmond is too central to the show now with the time-lines/visions plus des is such a great character.
Comment by rob — May 20, 2007 @ 5:50 am
when I said “battlefield” I meant the poll that was going on over at the DU site and not you and DArk.You and Dark is you and Dark It’s not for me to judge it.
Comment by we2 — May 20, 2007 @ 6:19 am
Neill, Neill, Neill…. I love Dark to death. However. This site is 90% original material not copy and pasted news items. And Has dark interviewed cuse, lindelof, michael emerson, etc, himself? Will he after this? No. So thanks for stopping by, but come back when you have a brain.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 7:25 am
Wow Neill… reading your second comment. You truly are a piece of work my friend. I have a forum with 30,000 active users attached to this site with about 70,000 threads. Sorry, but I dare say that I have more comments, I just have the option of a discussion forum available and thats where most of the talking goes on.
And for the last time, Dark did no release the spoilers first. It was AICN. Period.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 7:29 am
Doc, the best way to play the game is to rise above it. There’s no more need in beating the dead horse of Lostfan’s spoilers and who had them first. You put together a great analysis off of 45 seconds of promos and that alone should be your battle cry.
This site provides the best forums for discussions and theories, hands down. I look forward to the day when all the bandwagon forum jumpers go back to their daily lives and leave the spoiler free discussions to the pros.
I’ll bet in the last 2 weeks, your site has generated 6x the amount of normal posters and I’d also be willing to bet that they are only here for the gravy, not the real meat and potatoes of an honest discussion.
I hate the word, but I’ll call Shenanigans on all you forum busters….In a week, you’ll all crawl back under your rocks only to return next May…
Comment by El Prez — May 20, 2007 @ 8:12 am
in reply to DocArzt’s comment
Doc with the term “battlefield” I was reffering the the poll over at DU’s site and not you and DArk.Your relationship with DArk is your business not for me to judge or comment.
Comment by we2 — May 20, 2007 @ 8:33 am
oh excuse the repetition my computer has been playing games*blush*
Comment by we2 — May 20, 2007 @ 8:42 am
Nah, we2… it’s the site. I’m trying to heal it, but I can’t seem to summon enough island magic.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 9:23 am
So can someone confirm that Doc has admitted that Lostfan’s spoilers are 100 percent accurate regarding the big twist.
I haven’t seen anywhere that it says that, it is just implied I guess.
Comment by Lvanwheeler — May 20, 2007 @ 9:30 am
Too bad this has turned into a discussion of the ethics of “forbidden fruit”.
I am very interested in the looking glass scenarios. I am not sure that is Mikhail falling into the water. It could be Greta who also has a weapon and isn’t wearing scuba gear.
Comment by foiler repeater — May 20, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Can I be the first to say: Who the hell is Pryce?
I take it you mean Ryan?
Comment by Joe — May 20, 2007 @ 11:13 am
Nice work on piecing together the plot of the next episode through previews, Doc. Is it just me, or does it seem like the Producers are starting a running joke with Patchy getting beat up or killed in every other episode? (Locke throws him into the security system, Locke randomly beats the living crap out of him, Desdmond shoots him with a spear gun…) I’m just waiting for Ben to pop up out of nowhere and say “Oh my God, you killed Patchy…you b@st@rd!”
Comment by Dr_Smooth — May 20, 2007 @ 11:39 am
Neill. I did not attack Dark for posting the spoilers. And i wouldn’t have because he didn’t post them first. Somebody posted them in AICN’s comment thread. There is nothing preventing me from scooping them up and posting them here myself, other than common sense.
But regardless, the spoilers originated on AICN, Dark seems to be taking credit for it, but thats for him to reconcile not me. My article was against people posting the spoilers in non spoiler protected areas. But then again, if you’d actually read the article you’d know that. Now, get in line with the rest of the lemmings, you have a cliff to catch.
Anybody who wants to accuse me of being jealous is going to get the same reply: who is jealous of being second? AICN is a huge, well respected entertainment site, they had the spoilers first in both cases. In both cases I was aware of them and could have posted them here. And to answer your next question, no I’m not jealous of AICN either.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 11:53 am
I rarely post comments on here, or on Dark’s site, but I just felt I had to.
First of all, I think we can all agree that Doc and Dark have very different sites. Like Doc has said, The Tailsection focuses more on commentary and specualtion, while Dark offers a collection of Lost articles and spoilers collected from various sources and all put into one place. If you wanna get spoiled go to Dark, if you wanna stay involved between episodes without having it ruined, come here.
Reading spoilers are (usually) a matter of choice. Dark runs a spoiler site, can you really blame him for posting spoilers? No.
Doc - If Dark really is your friend, then why is it necessary to degrade his site (’cut n’ paste’) and it’s visitors (’mostly idiots’)? I get your position on spoilers, but it wasn’t necessary to make small snide comments about your ‘friend’…
All that being said, I do believe you made the right choice for your site Doc. It is your choice not to ruin it for others, I really respect that. And naturally, it only puts you in a better place to be offered the oppurtunity to have more interviews with the cast and crew.
Just my two cents. Keep up the good work Doc!
Comment by Victor — May 20, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Hey Victor! Whoa… that comes across wrong. I never ever ever said that Dark’s visitors were “mostly idiots”. I said the he “really attracts some idiots” which was in reference to the ones coming here to flame me for things which are ridiculous, like claiming I was jealous for not copying the aicn spoiler first.
Do you really think it hurts Dark that I use the term cut’n'paste? It’s not nearly as derogatory as it might seem. You make the distinction yourself.
Sorry but I’ll go on the record right now as saying Dark’s new spoilers are either complete forgeries, or somebody’s carefully deduced fan-fic. The Lostfan108 who came here gave additional info about greatest hits before it aired which proved his authenticity, and his entire purpose for posting was that he wanted it known that AICN used him by posting more information than he agreed to release.
If the Lostfan108 at DarkUFO is legit, why did he give dark ufo a word for word copy of what he posted hours earlier at AICN and package it as a ’scoop’? Did he open it as “Dear DarkUFO. I love your site, here’s a scoop for you: the word for word comment I published at AICN a few hours ago. Enjoy”
Were is the litmus? Lostfan108 came here, posted specific details on greatest hits which turned out to be true, then came back to clear the record.
So the finale answer is. No, I’m not jealous that Dark published second hand information hours after it was posted at AICN. I’d like to see the litmus though.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
And yes, for the record… it would be very wrong for me to generalize a sites visitors as ‘idiots’ and not in my nature at all. Then again, I’ve kept my blog and all my other work pumping after having fairly significant surgery this week, so you’ll have to excuse me if I sound crabby at times.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
OK, maybe you didn’t mean to sound anti DarkUFO, but it definitely came across that way.
And maybe you truthfully didn’t see that those at DarkUFO noticed Ben behind Rousseau before you posted it here, maybe you did think you were the first to spot it.
If that is the case, I apologize, and again, you do SEEM jealous that now lostfan108 is giving DarkUFO further scoopage, you wouldn’t claim it to be fraudulent if that wasn’t the case.
I do not like being called an idiot, i’m sure if you knew me you’d realise that i’m clearly not, I just felt that DarkUFO needed to be defended against your APPARENT hate.
To be perfectly honest, I do resent the fact that those spoilers were publicly shown on DarkUFO and equally resent the fact that I read them, but flaming DarkUFO for posting them (in the spoiler section, behind spoiler tags, giving the reader a choice) is just wrong.
I hope you now understand where I was coming from and stop calling me and other DarkUFO readers ‘idiots’.
Comment by Neil — May 20, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Brother Neill, you came and attacked me in caps! And you continue to look at the situation one sided.
“you wouldn’t claim it to be fraudulent if that wasn’t the case.”
How do you know my nature, my friend? How do you know that I don’t know differently? You don’t even know my site, to be frank. You rely on the backing of an army of imaginary friends that you think see what you haven’t had a chance to look at. This site is 100% original commentary, when ever there is something from another site, including Darks, I give props.
You come in like you know the site and make absolute statements. Where have I ever, ever flamed Dark for posting the spoilers? My ‘One Rotten Apple’ article is about the people who were posting the spoilers in comments sections and on forums. It digressed a little into personal opinion.
But again, my kool aid drinking friend, the spoilers originated on AICN. The new spoilers could easily taken from the promos, and it should be fun to see how close the minute details are on Wednesday.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
And sorry, if you come here to flame me with half-baked arguments that aren’t even based in reality. I will call you idiot. But not because I’m mean spirited towards Dark users. Because a spade is a spade.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
Well, I think I speak for the majority when I say the flame war is asinine. There is little doubt that this site has more respect in the professional community of LOST, as evidenced by Doc’s interviews here as well as his wide reaching industry coverage in other publications. I like DarkUFO as sort of a Nexxus for information, but it is mostly cut-and-paste with no critical analysis whatsoever. I come here for my meat and potatoes, and go to Dark for my bubble-gum. But that isn’t the topic is it? Clearly, Neill, you came here to flame Doc and while it is an ugly mess to read I can’t blame Doc for fighting back.
Comment by PaulL — May 20, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
That’s ‘potato’ Paul.
But seriously. lets just put it behind us. I’m not jealous, I could have posted it and credited Dark just as I have done numerous times without going to pieces. I am still a little astonished that he gets credited for AintItCoolNews’s scoop… but whatever. 
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
Can’t we all just get along? I feel like in the midst of all this, everyone has lost sight of why we’re even talking about this: we’re all here cause we love the greatest show on TV. Here’s what it boils down to:
1)if you’ve read the spoilers, that’s cool, just don’t spoil it for people who don’t want to, and
2)if you haven’t read the spoilers (like myself), just be careful what you read
Its FINALE TIME, people! It’s like Christmas, it only comes once a year. We should be discussing how awesome “Greatest Hits” was and how even more awesome the finale will be. DarkUFO and Doc both run great Lost sites, so let’s just enjoy the anticipation of the next few days. Because after that there’s no more Lost for 8 months. I sure don’t wanna ruin my excitement with petty arguments about things that won’t even matter a week from now.
PS - Love the detective work doc
-Justin-
Comment by justin — May 20, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
Don’t drink the koolaid!!!
The koolaid is bad! *nods*
Comment by KrissyLove — May 20, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
I am smelling something fishy but as Rose from the “Golden Girls” would say “I can’t put my finger on it”. I am talking about the spoiler details revealed today over at DU’s site.There are 2 things(DONT WORRY I AM NOT GOING TO REFFER TO THE SPOILER IN ANY WAY)that the moment I read them sounded SO weird and…frankly sounded opinion oriented the way fan-fic is written.
Doc do you believe there is a possibility the whole lostfan108 leak is a sham(from TFTB,a fan,a goat with a high school diploma,whoever, the identity of the writer is irrelevant)??
I am sorry, I know this is the promo/timeline thread…
Comment by we2 — May 20, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
The spoilers are quite genuine. But I’m told there are some inconsistencies. But having looked at some of the stuff Dark will be publishing over the next couple of the days, I think it is safe to assume all is true.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
ok thanks!
Comment by we2 — May 20, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Neil… you came here and called me out, remember? Now that I defended myself against unbased accusations you continue the attack? I didn’t call all of Dark’s visitors idiots.
And you can be dismissive all you want of my accomplishments. It doesn’t change the fact that they’ve happened.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
“You brand your (stolen) theories ‘for the intelligent LOST fan’, it’s really just intellectual masturbation.”
And your posts, Neil, seem to be on the verge of verbal masturbation…
Doc apologized for his ‘idiots’ reference, and wasn’t even necessarily referring to you directly. However, seeing the way you have reacted, it’s no surprise that some may see DU readers as ‘idiots’.
Talk is cheap, Neil. The Tailsection has done more for the online Lost community than you have or ever will do. And even though I’m also a visitor to DU, you can’t deny that there is more time and effort put into the articles here, than over at DU.
Comment by Victor — May 20, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
Okay Neil. I’m willing to extend the olive branch here and say that it looks like we both may have taken each other out of context. I’ll state my position here:
1) You came off a little harsh, hence the escalation.
2) You are wrong about the ‘jealously.’ I haven’t published spoilers of this magnitude for months.
3) I do not think DarkUFO attracts idiots.
4) I don’t ’steal’ theories. I don’t have time. I write 4,000 words a day for various press outlets. This is my quiet time. If I didn’t catch that someone in my comment system noticed Ben in the pic, what makes you think I would have had time to find it in Dark’s?
5) The original anti-spoiler rant was against people who were posting the spoilers in unprotected ways without warning. If you read the article, you’d know this.
6) Your insistence to cling to pegging me as jealous has no basis, and is just annoying. It’s immature actually. You said that if people don’t agree with me, I call them idiots? Why do you refuse to believe that my goals may not be as nefarious as you make them out to be?
7) Dark and I are very good friends. He used to contribute to this site. We are having a good laugh over the flame war, so why can’t you drop the hostility and laugh along.
Sorry I called you an idiot, but don’t run in here with your capslock on and start putting a negative spin on everything I say. I appreciate your patronage, and I’m willing to have an adult discussion about it, but you just came off like you had it all figured out. And frankly, you don’t.
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
Oh, and by the way. Dark gave me the rest of the spoilers. Nanananana
Comment by DocArzt — May 20, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
I only started viewing Lost stuff on the web about a month or so ago, so I think i have a pretty fresh perspective. This is regarding spoilers and the discussions that have insued thereafter. No matter what the infonmation may be, people like to bitch about it in some way or another. There are almost infinate ways that people complain about the info released. People act as if discussing/complaining/knowing spoilers about Lost on the web is more important than watching the show itself. I find it very amazing, because in the end, everyone will be watching the SHOW!
Comment by Scratchandsniffpuffysticker — May 20, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Beautiful job on the timeline, Doc, although that last linked image here in the comments has me questioning the “Danielle dragging Ben” assumption.
I still tend to lean towards Sayid it aint so’s and your interpretation, simply because the color in the screencap is more green than the yellowish “red shirt guy” in the linked image, and because the positioning of “Ben’s” and Danielle’s hands are so awkward if it’s anything else except her dragging someone whose hands are bound in front of them.
As to the other, I go to different sites for different purposes, and as many have noted, your site is more oriented towards original content, while Dark’s is a REALLY comprehensive aggregator, so to speak. I think that’s why Dark doesn’t always specifically cite that he isn’t the originator of some content–because his whole site is oriented around aggregated content from other sources.
I also think that the impact of people being unintentionally spoiled will hopefully not be as bad as people fear. There are so many bizarrely fake foilers being posted left, right and center lately that many may read the spoilers in a title and completely glaze over it, thinking it’s merely another of those–and thus still be surprised.
Comment by coffeecupkat — May 20, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
“Oh, and by the way. Dark gave me the rest of the spoilers. Nanananana ;)”
Hahahahahaha! Oh my god. I think I love you.
Totally worth all the frustration I’ve felt in the last three days because of assholes who purposely spoiled me. Thank you, doc!
Comment by KrissyLove — May 20, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
Would n’t you suggest that in the second from top picture, that its the same guy you believe is ben, just with more detailed facial features
Comment by Bromage — May 21, 2007 @ 3:09 am
I’ll be honest, I find internet flaming and pointless internet arguements hilarious. There were a few flame wars that started in other comments sections of LOST websites regarding the spoilers. And I fueled those arguements with my own input. I didn’t actually believe anything I was posting, I was just saying what I thought would generate the most response.
Last night, when I posted on this comments section, I was trying to get a reaction, mainly because I was bored. I didn’t get the reaction I hoped for per se, I wanted others to join in, but I did get enough reaction from you sir to keep me interested.
To put it simply, go on IGN.com, go to their message boards, in particular their ‘WWE’ message board. Then create a thread saying that in RAW this week, a new wrestler will be announced called ‘The Hedgehog’ and make up ridiculous backstory. Then see the response you get. It’s hilarious.
This was just a failed attempt to ironically start a flame war. Au-revoir.
Comment by Neil — May 21, 2007 @ 4:50 am
Doc - it is painfully obvious that you have read the script and are merely trying to portray yourself as a puzzle-solving Lost expert. Your site is getting pathetic and is an obvious second-best to Dark UFO. No Hugo Cup for you!
For the record, that is ben tied up behind Rousseau, no question.
Comment by Dirk Diggler — May 21, 2007 @ 7:20 am
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Exactly the kind of responses I was hoping to induce.
Comment by Neil — May 21, 2007 @ 7:50 am
i dont think that its ben in the last picture ….
if you look at the second picture going down, on this page… you can see that the guy behind russo has a beard and looks nothing like ben ….
Comment by JG — May 21, 2007 @ 9:02 am
ao Neil,
It is easy to be anonymous on the Internet, so it is a great showcase of people’s real beliefs unfiltered from how we want to be seen.
Character is refined in moments when no one is looking. So, what do your own words say about you?
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 21, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Doc - Thank you for taking a stand and not posting the spoilers. I saw them on DarkUFO’s site and it said “spoilers” not “complete ruiners” so I read them. I wish I had not and I really, really hope you are correct and they turn out to be false. I was predicting from the second I read them that they were not true and that lostfan108 was just guessing from trailers he had seen but the accuracy of the Greatest Hits spoilers has me confused now.
Until the finale is aired I will not be looking at DarkUFO’s site. Once the finale is over I will go back and visit it but not for the next three days.
Comment by Eric — May 21, 2007 @ 10:20 am
It’s Ben. i am a betting man, but even if I were not, I would make a ridiculous wager that it is Ben with his hands tied being led by Rousseau.
Comment by Dirk Diggler — May 21, 2007 @ 10:22 am
You read the spoiler (or complete ruiner as you put it) about The Greatest Hits episode and kept reading and are now complaining about it? Makes no sense. If you didn’t want to take the chance about the finale, you could have stopped reading. Doc has had enough comments fired his way about all this, and Dark UFO did nothing different than he has done all season long with his spoilers (or complete ruiners). They are (a) not in plain view, (b) set off with a hugo logo and the words, “caution” or “beware”, etc., and (c) they are in the section of the website where it is more than logical to find information that could tell you about an entire episode!!!!!!!!!!!! Get over it or go to ABC’s website, where you really have to do some link clicking to get spoiler information. Again, Dark did nothing wrong, Doc took it too far with the woe is me routine, and now his site has turned into a circus. And Kate is extrememly attractive with excellent definition in her arm muscles and a fabulous stomach. Thank you.
Comment by Dirk Diggler — May 21, 2007 @ 10:27 am
I am not blaming anyone but myself for reading the spoilers. I just listened to the ABC podcast and they said that the finale is not even totally done yet so unless the spoilers were taken from a script…
I totally agree with you about Kate, though.
Comment by Eric — May 21, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Dirk. Yeah. I read the scripts for season 4,5, and 6 as well. So everything you read from here on out, pure bunk.
Comment by DocArzt — May 21, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
that will happen! no questions!
Comment by shaun — May 22, 2007 @ 3:02 am
Its not ben being dragged. you can blatently see it isnt him in the next couple of shots when they use a close up of danielle its one of the non important losties. you dont need your high-res bollocks to see that.
Comment by Ben's Wheelchair — May 23, 2007 @ 1:25 am
Gee, if I was DarkUFO I would hate to have a “friend” like Doc!
Comment by smarkit — May 23, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Reading this in hindsight after 3×22-23, I must say: EXCELLENT work doing this from the ABC reel without true spoilers.
Comment by Santa — May 24, 2007 @ 1:59 am