Saving Charlie - (Minor Spoiler Warning)
"Greatest Hits" was the epitome of Greek tragedy. Literally! Tragedy having its roots from the post Athenian age of the Dithyramb, "Greatest hits" resembled, at its thematic core, something more akin to the root of art - including the art of story - that Dionysus himself would have been proud of. I refer specifically to the little ditty that Charlie himself wrote, his personal "Greatest Hits." Not only designed as a vessel for his memories, but a piece of whimsical reminiscence meant to ease the grief at the loss of this man. A touching exercise that left a lot of the Charlie-weary audience, myself included, feeling a little heavy in the heart.
LOST has created this exercise amongst fans, sort of an unintentional social experiment. Look at how we judge which character’s are expendable? If Cuse and Lindelof need anymore justification for why their show should warrant a college course they need think no further than the reams of observations that could be derived from how LOST fans wager and negotiate the value of characters lives.
The redemption episodes are sometimes not as successful. I was never convinced by Ana Lucia’s redemption, for instance; and with three kids of my own, I still can’t see where Michael was coming from. "Abandoned" and "Greatest Hits" are character redemption in the state-of-the-art. If you were a Charlie-hater, how did you feel after "Greatest Hits?" If you’re like me, you felt guilty.
So despite various spoilers leading up to "Greatest Hits," including the fact that Charlie would NOT be in the finale (he very clearly is), is it possible that our newly redeemed Rock Star will be spared to live on in seasons to come? In reality, the episode would be more successful if it dispatched Charlie into the here-after in the wake of a tidal wave sized turn of public sentiment. The redemption, after all, is meant to make the character remembered in a positive light rather than "that useless Charlie." Even though more people than ever probably want to see Charlie live, now is the perfect time to kill him in an artistic sense.
Whether or not Charlie makes it, I’ll say that Dom’s performance is one of the most nuanced on the show. From the very beginning with Dom’s hoodie language of Dark Charlie and Light Charlie, to the infamous "fate" bands, Charlie has been a well textured patch in the LOST quilt.
So what do you folks think, will Desmond save Charlie? Looks like there is a chance!
hey just a question, not relating to the post (although i think charlie is a great character) but does anyone else think that the second chick that came out of the door in the underwater hatch looks like the woman who was conned by sawyer/ helped kate meet with her mom?
Comment by jon — May 18, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
You’re right, he has been a “well textured patch in the Lost quilt” but his part of the show seems to be done, for the most part. Perhaps its just me getting agitated with Desmond having numerous amount of future scenes of Charlie dying and nothing taking action. But then again, if Charlie’s gone, who would Claire scream deliriously at to bring her baby back…
I’m over it.
Comment by HateKate — May 18, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
*Out of topic comment*
If the looking glass hatch was connected to the island with one cable… wasn’t more easy and logical to just cut the cable… unless the cable ins’t the power supplie… just a though…
Comment by Jair — May 18, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
YES! I thought the same thing!
Comment by Jared Katz — May 18, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
YES! I thought the same thing!
Comment by Jared Katz — May 18, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
I rather thing that the way things have been set up, Charlie’s redemption won’t truly work unless he *does* die in the finale. They’ve sold me on his demise but not on a last minute reprive. Could just be me, though.
Comment by S. A. Bonasi — May 18, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
I agree, I think it is time for Charlie to go. His story has been told. I like the character but I can’t see the writers bringing him along for the 4th season. There are too many new characters they need to develop such as Richard. One theory I have about them, although this is just a guess and I could be totally wrong, is that Richard and the hostiles were sailors on the black rock. Somehow they have not aged for centuries. I also think there may have been some kind of mutiny and Jacob may have been their captain. He was killed but came back in the form of a spirit on this island. They needed someone who had a way with the island and Ben became what they needed to control Jacob. This would put Richard behind the wizard of oz curtain all the while. Remember it was he who first brought Ben into their group. Just a thought. Who knows what the writers have in mind.
Comment by AH — May 18, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
It looks as if Des and Mikhail will both be in the Looking Glass station from the preview. Maybe Mikhail is the one on the beach with the gun and Des’ only chance for survival is to dive down to the station where he finds Charlie held captive. Mikhail would definetley pursue him to protect the station…so maybe Mikhail doesn’t even know it is occupied. Maybe no one knows…except Ben. I do believe that Charlie will survive only to be saved again by Des…Des kills Mikhail…saves Charlie…again….and they flee the station after accomplishing the mission….the two unknown “others” radio to Ben the news and that is when he knows he has to stop the castaways from reaching the radio tower….then the real fun begins….just guessing…I am probably way off. It’s very easy to be wrong about this show as we all know.
Comment by cr — May 18, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
i have been preparing myself for charlie’s death since the reveal of desmonds first premonition of it. however…having to sit through the whole “greatest hits” episode, watching them explore how charlie had accepted his fate & in turn, becoming a hero for the losties…i would ABSOLUTELY HATE to see him go now. especially after hearing “I’M ALIVE!! I’M ALIVE!”
for me…one episode of the possibility of charlie dying was enough…now we have (technically) 2 more to go before we know for sure! ugh!
i TOTALLY have my fingers crossed that desmond will come through for charlie. i really do.
Comment by aim — May 18, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
i have been preparing myself for charlie’s death since the reveal of desmonds first premonition of it. however…having to sit through the whole “greatest hits” episode, watching them explore how charlie had accepted his fate & in turn, becoming a hero for the losties…i would ABSOLUTELY HATE to see him go now. especially after hearing “I’M ALIVE!! I’M ALIVE!”
for me…one episode of the possibility of charlie dying was enough…now we have (technically) 2 more to go before we know for sure! ugh!
i TOTALLY have my fingers crossed that desmond will come through for charlie. i really do.
Comment by aims — May 18, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
sorry for the double post, a little tech. difficulty!
Comment by aims — May 18, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
I had grown weary of Charlie’s character at about the mid-point of S2 during his Aaron and Sun kidnapping phase. When Desmond predicted his impending demise at the end of FBYE, I was indifferent. And then I rewatched S1 and realized how vital Charlie’s character really was to the overall texture of the story. I further realized that I did indeed care for him. I immediately rewatched S2, after finishing S1, and without the delay between seasons, Charlie’s actions in S2 didn’t bother me as much. I guess my “sorrow” at the prospect of Des’ visions of Charlie’s death coming true really went into high gear during Tricia Tanica Is Dead, specifically when he and Hurley were, well, hurling down the hill. At that moment, I wanted Charlie to live. Unfortunately, I don’t think he will, but I would be very happy if he does…as long as it doesn’t discredit the accuracy of Desmond’s flashforwards. Charlie has literally been “cheating death” since Day 1 on the island. But we have never had the heart-tugging redemption episode we had this week before. I don’t think the writers would attempt to pull off another redemption for the same character, so, IMHO, if Charlie lives through the S3 finale, he’ll be safe through the S6 finale.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
I’m very much holding out hope that Charlie will live. I cried the entire episode! He was never my absolute favorite but I’m very attached to all the Losties so any of them being killed now would be devastating. My guess is that we may not know his actual fate until next season. Remember in S2 finale he survived the hatch implosion so my bet would be we don’t actually see him die in this finale but it will look like does. I’m grasping at straws here what can i say…
Comment by Amber420 — May 18, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
The only problem with him dying is the have opened some new questions about him. The conversation with his brother….the mugger…(why couldn’t we see his face?)..was it all staged? Was that his brother mugging the women for drug money? Maybe I missed something but it seems like there are now new questions about his life before the crash. How did he get hook on drugs after his bro said he was the only drug-free rockstar on the planet?? Like I said maybe I missed something….Charlie lives on to escape death another day….I think.
Comment by cr — May 18, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
The only problem with him dying is the have opened some new questions about him. The conversation with his brother….the mugger…(why couldn’t we see his face?)..was it all staged? Was that his brother mugging the women for drug money? Maybe I missed something but it seems like there are now new questions about his life before the crash. How did he get hook on drugs after his bro said he was the only drug-free rockstar on the planet?? Like I said maybe I missed something….Charlie lives on to escape death another day….I think.
Comment by cr — May 18, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
The only problem with him dying is the have opened some new questions about him. The conversation with his brother….the mugger…(why couldn’t we see his face?)..was it all staged? Was that his brother mugging the women for drug money? Maybe I missed something but it seems like there are now new questions about his life before the crash. How did he get hook on drugs after his bro said he was the only drug-free rockstar on the planet?? Like I said maybe I missed something….Charlie lives on to escape death another day….I think.
Comment by cr — May 18, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
All of what you said does sound very plausible except for one thing. Why has Ben aged? That has really bothered me b/c it does seem like people on the island don’t age.
Comment by Amber420 — May 18, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
First off - the theories on Richard’s aging. The DHARMA people aged so the theory that the island doesn’t let you age doesn’t hold water. What I think is that Richard is the CHILD of people who crashed on the Black Rock and people who are BORN on the island don’t age past a certain point. This would keep everything consistent.
As for Charlie I have been saying he will not die for quite a while now. It would be too obvious, they’ve been foreshadowing this all season and to just kill him like everyone expects seems a very un-Lost-like thing to do. However if it was put in the context of how fate can’t be changed it might work. Desmond could try to save Charlie and fail and we are reminded of the universal course correction mechanism.
As for the character of Charlie, like many other people I grew indifferent to him somewhere in Season 2. He just kind of faded into the background and was at times very annoying. This last episode was a phenomenal acting job on Monaghan’s part and really redeemed him to me. Charlie is pretty central to the survivor’s, but that doesn’t mean he won’t die.
Comment by Eric — May 18, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
What about Claire?!
If Charlie suffles this fictional coil, fine. But the writers better give Claire a new storyline, and perhaps not just one about her baby. The notion that she and Jack are siblings is tantalizing.
But if she has to recede into the background, I’ll be pissed, because not only is actress Emily de Ravin totally gorgeous, the female characters on this show kinda get short shrift when they’re not busy being baby-ovens.
Comment by kkty — May 18, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
I count myself among those who don’t care much for Charlie, but after “Greatest Hits”, I am not in such a hurry for him to go. Still, if Desmond’s visions are true and “Cholly” does purchase the old farm, I won’t be that upset over it. I think he has served whatever purpose he was supposed to,and at times he is still annoying. But so is Jack.
Comment by Dr. Quest — May 18, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Who besides Richard have we met on the island that does not appear to age? Perhaps the other hostiles. But, so far, Richard is the only hostile we have seen at the time that Ben was young and in present island time. But even if the absence of aging is limited to the hostiles (because they are the original island inhabitants?), the question would then be, when and why did they STOP aging? Because if they’d NEVER aged, they would all still be infants.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
Amber, I think the aging/not-aging and healing/not-healing are part of how “good” of a person one is in the eyes of the island, and the island is telling Ben (and his followers) that Ben is not “good.”
Wasn’t there something in a producer pod-cast awhile back about how Ben’s living in modernity was part of why he was healing slowly? Something about the plate of chicken in the refrigerator? I wonder if Ben’s attempts to lead a “modern” life on the island are at odds with what the Island wants.
Comment by kkty — May 18, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
gusteaux, that’s a great question about when they stop aging. I think the Natives and those that are in true communion with the Island age really slowly. (Though how Walt factors into this I don’t know.) I think the x-rays Richard showed Juliette in Portland were Danielle’s and that they experimented on her.
And what was Danielle’s line about the signal, “16 years? Has it really been that long?” (Though with the show moving at the rate of about a day an episode, I feel ya, Danielle! 90 days has taken 3 dang years!)
Though I have a question. Could the magnetism be what influences that? And when that hatch imploded, does that mean that the magnetism is gone? Like, forever? Because there’s clearly no more button-pushing going on.
Comment by kkty — May 18, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
I thought Danielle’s line about, “has it really been 16 years”, was odd too, but for a different reason. That being that a few episodes later, when she was trying to steal Aaron to attempt to exchange him for Alex she clearly stated that Alex would now be 16 years old. Unless she made that assumption based on the fact that Sayid had told her the signal had been playing for that long, but that seems unreasonable. Surely she would have known how long her child had been missing.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
I always liked Ana-Lucia. She needed no redemption for me. As for Michael, I still believe Three Minutes served as more of an explanation as to why Michael did what he did as opposed to excusing his actions.
I firmly believe there is a difference between a reason and an excuse. Three Minutes was Michael’s reason. Nothing more.
Though I do agree with you, Doc! (on everything else…)
Comment by mike — May 18, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Something tells me that Charlie might not be the big death of the season finale. I was looking at some still photos and noticed one of Desmond in a room that looks similar to what we saw of “The Looking Glass” station. Remember that Desmond said that maybe he was the one who was supposed to sacrifice himself and not Charlie…also, there was another photo of a body floating down, almost as if pushed, into the pool of water in “The Looking Glass”…what if it is Desmond who dies and not Charlie?
Comment by BigMattyB — May 18, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
To me, Charlie’s impending death is very much like George Mason’s demise on 24 (season 2). The audience is very well aware that it will happen sometime during the season, however, it doesn’t take away the gravity about what’s going to happen. Just like George Mason’s death on 24 is one of the most well remembered deaths in 24’s history because he goes out with a bang (no pun intended) but also as a hero; Charlie’s is the same way.
I think the “impending doom” feel that ended with Greatest Hits will carry over into the finale. I’m guessing that Charlie will not only flip the switch (thereby indirectly saving everyone so they can get rescued) but also by saving Desmond who I think will try to rescue Charlie. Overall, he’s been a great character but its time for him to go but when he does, he’ll go out as a hero.
Comment by trahald10 — May 18, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
I GOT A QUESTION
Okay, so when Dom said in an interview his character would be in the finale without physically being there, how is he shown in the finale then? Was that just a lie then?
Comment by Josh — May 18, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I do agree about Charlie as annoying as he had started to be it was a good redemption episode but I can’t imagine them keeping him around.
There is one thing about the Looking Glass itself that is bothering me. Okay turning the key in the Swan fried the Flame and the becon right? If that’s the case then why is the radio tower still broadcasting, and how does the Looking Glass still function? Were they lying about those systems not working?
Comment by Westix — May 18, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
The current scenario playing out reminds me of Will Ferrell’s recent film “Stranger Than Fiction.” The whole story is about a writer killing a character that they had so fully brought to life and had slowly fallen in love with then facing the dilemna of the decision. While, as in the film, it seems that the most artisticly poignant move would be to kill the character, is it the right thing to do?
Here is where I argue for the fact that it is also artistically poignant to save the character. Just as in the film, Charlie has grown from being a well fleshed out, but uninteresting character to being a living, breathing hero that audiences hope will overcome the overwhelming odds. Some will feel cheated if he lives and some will feel defeated if he dies. But his living, like the whole VW Van-excursion, would provide hope for all the castaways that has been sadly missing for nearly two seasons. If Charlie can overcome his “fate” then all of the castaways can take their lives in their hands and stop “waiting for rescue.”
As I watched “Greatest Hits” I too felt that Charlie had to die and move into the world of immortal, iconic characters. But now I also realize that living, can also move him into that same world. Would you have preferred for Harold Crick to die?
Comment by MerlboroMan — May 18, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
I never understood the Charlie haters. He has always, always been one of the more nuanced characters on the show. Well-written, and well-played, he has been deeply flawed, but well meaning.
We’ve seen Charlie be brave, cowardly, strong, weak, smart, stupid, deep, petty… Oftentimes, within the same scene. And inner demons aren’t as forced or as grandiose as some of the other characters on the show. Charlie’s path is a little more reality-based, making him much easier to relate to.
Whether he stays (which at this stage WOULD be the surprise) or goes, it was nice to have a Charlie-centric episode again, and as stated, his redemption song has been handled well.
And if he does go, the creators of the show will need to find another character or storyline to inject a little levity and realism to balance some of the more outlandish paths they continue to travel.
Comment by Nick — May 18, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
I think Ben is able to see dead people and locke is able to hear them. Jacob is going to be a huge character in the next season.
Comment by Ed — May 18, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
What?!?!? You can’t see where Michael was coming from? I don’t have kids, but I have a wife and 2 dogs. I would definitely sell out a couple people that I’ve known for a month or so to get the dogs back.
Comment by Higdon — May 18, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
MerlboroMan, I’m pretty much in the same boat. I thought he needed to die, but after contemplating the themes of redemption, hope and fate throughout the show Charlie’s survival could be equally important to the rest of the Losties.
I almost feel that the writers had a perfect opportunity to tell a compelling, complete hero-story in “Greatest Hits.” But they needed to end that chapter of Lost by having him complete the task and die while doing it. Granted, TPTB may have needed to delay Charlie’s actual demise until next week due to editing but I personally feel like that “good feeling” that was built up for the entire episode has now been suspended.
The fact is when the credits came on screen, Charlie was very much alive. Sure he was being held at gun point, but if those women wanted him dead they would have shot him on sight. Not only do I as a fan of Charlie, need him to live, it will seem anticlimactic if they kill him at any point in the future.
Bottom line, IMO, the writers kind of blew a golden opportunity… if in fact their intentions are to kill the character. It makes me weary that we could end the season still not knowing Charlie’s fate. I need a “What the hell is happening” cliffhanger, not another “my favorite characters are in peril” situation. They’ve played that hand to get them through the last two hiatuses, please no more.
Comment by sandleford — May 18, 2007 @ 3:44 pm
It’s funny that so many people hated Michael’s character as well. He was complicated, his storyline, from a moral standpoint, was complex, and I bet many people would have made the choices he made.
To me, Charlie, Jin, Michael, Locke, Jack, Ben, etc. are the most interesting characters, with many different shadings and some ugly aspects to their personalities that really challenge us to care about, you know, real people.
Boone, Shannon, Ana-Lucia, Kate, Hurley, Claire, Sawyer - I actually think they are fairly one-dimensional. Not much depth or complexity to the character’s issues - yeah, they have problems, but many of these characters were passive in the sense that lots of their problems weren’t self-imposed (SO many of us are the real source of our own problems - right?). Bad things happened to them, external forces caused them to be the way they did.
What’s cool about a character like Charlie is that we saw a character forced to confront the ugly aspects of himself, and overcome them (or in Michael’s case, his guilt over being an absent father twisted into something terrible that overcame him).
It’s also too bad that Eko had to go (regardless of the circumstances surrounding the actor’s personality). That was a richly drawn character that just begged to be explored extensively.
Back to Charlie - most redemption stories end with a Charlie confronting his fears, overcoming them, and accepting his fate. But at this stage, wouldn’t it be even more interesting to turn into a story of rebirth, and have Charlie return to shore, alive? What happens then?
Comment by Nick — May 18, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
I don’t care for Charlie. He’s annoying to me.
I also didn’t care for the flashback. I thought it was one of the more meaningless flashbacks. It didn’t really tell a story - just gave you some insight into his life.
Sorry, but the character nor that episode did very much for me.
Comment by lostlover — May 18, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
If the mission were to revitalize the character, I’d be right there with you on the rebirth idea. However, I think it is the LOST way to try to end their character’s lives on an emotional note. This reeks of preperation for death.
Comment by DocArzt — May 18, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
I’m still thinking of, for me, what was the most shocking episode of LOST (or most shocking twist). When Michael killed Ana-Lucia and then Libby, following it up with shooting himself.
We had all heard for quite awhile that Ana-Lucia was going to die, for weeks. What surprised everyone was who did it, and that Libby died as well. That secret didn’t get out of the bag early. That was a hell of a twist.
Charlie living could be another one - just to keep this ride rolling in new, unexpected surprising ways.
And you know, for all the spoilers that floated about the past few weeks, someone did a damn good job of hiding Ben shooting Locke, didn’t they? Even the synopsis that had been posted on Dark.Ufo.Blogspot the day of the episode omitted that event.
We could still be in for an amazing twist next week. I’m not a betting man, but hey, who knows?… Either way, I’m watching, and enjoying nearly every minute of it.
Comment by Nick — May 18, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Hey jon, I was thinking exactly the same thing about the 2nd woman, but I somewhat doubt it is, because if it was that lady sawyer conned then I think they would of made a bigger deal out of it.
I really hope Charlie doesnt die, he is one of my favourite characters
Comment by icerfish — May 18, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
I suppose. They are both brunettes with hair just past their shoulders. But is it her? NO.
A different actress plays that role.
Comment by iowaslost815 — May 18, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
I’ve always liked Charlie and would hate to see him die. I get teary eyed when any of the characters die, in fact I still get a lump in my throat whenever they show Boone. Hell, I’ll probably get teary eyed when they kill off Ben. I don’t think it’s Charlie time to go…yet. Remember in “Flashes” Desmond thought his soccer team was going to score but it wasn’t until his next time in the bar that it happens. So according to Desmond, Charlie drowns. As I figure it, December 22 is Ben’s birthday and “Greatest Hits” took place the day after, Dec. 23, 2004. That means the Christmas tidal wave is only a couple of days away. The finale looks like it takes place over the course of the next day, Christmas Eve. The timing here can’t be a coincidence!
Comment by David — May 18, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
FOR THE LAST TIME PEOPLE: THE CABLE TO THE LOOKING GLASS IS NOT A POWER LINE. IT SAYS QUITE CLEARLY ON THE DIAGRAM OF THE STATION THAT IT IS AN ANCHOR TO THE ISLAND.
Comment by Stev — May 18, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
I agree with the statement somebody made that there is a lot more to be explored. I think there has not been enough information on Charlie’s past, and that maybe the writers are leaving out a significant bit of information for use in a future flashback. I really, really think they showed us about the time his father taught him to swim to make us question what exactly is going on. (And very clever use of it by the writers, if that was the intent). I’m almost positive Charlie said “I can’t swim” at one point (I can *hear* him saying it), though he did also tell Jack “I *don’t* swim,” I believe. So what exactly happened there? I could be making a big huge deal out of nothing, because Charlie is my *favorite* character, but I don’t think I am.
And to Josh - When Dom said he would be a huge part of the finale without actually being there, I think he was referring to the fact that he is seperated from the other Losties. Does that make sense? Being there - “there” meaning at this giant battle/confrontation that’s going down. He could’ve just said Charlie is going to be somewhere else, but that would be giving away the fact that he didn’t die in Greatest Hits, and therefore he was doing his best to give a teaser that we just misinterpereted because we didn’t have all the information yet - and maybe that was even his intent, who knows. I don’t know if any of this made sense, *I* know what I mean, but it’s a bit tricky to explain, so I apologise.
Greatest Hits had me in tears. We kindof knew from the previews and from what was circulating around that Charlie was going to have to give his life for someone, and I assumed (never assume with this show, I’m telling you…) that “someone” was going to be *everyone*; all the Losties, for whatever reason. I never, ever, in my wildest dreams expected it to be to get Claire and Aaron rescued. It was just… heartwrenchingly beautiful. Him saying his goodbyes, leaving Aaron the ring, calling him turnip-head one last time, telling him he loves him right in front of Claire, writing out all his memories… Ohgod, it killed me. Perfectly executed by the writers, and I totally praise them for coming up with it. Many will disagree with me, but I think Greatest Hits might have been my favorite episode of Lost to date.
I think if they kill Charlie, Claire’s going to have to go soon too - and remember what Richard Malkin said about her kindness and her goodness needing to be an influence on this baby? Something tells me that if Claire dies (unless Aaron dies too), it wouldn’t bode well for the Losties. Claire’s storyline obviously still has the huge bombshell that she’s Jack’s half-sister, but what after that? Unless there’s something huge left to be revealed in *her* past, they’d just be dragging her character out, I believe. She *needs* Charlie, in my opinion. I’m starting to think the evidence for him living is a lot greater than the evidence for him dying.
Besides, where would we be without all that great Hurley/Charlie dialogue. They should do stand up comedy together after they get off the island. Save the (ex) junkie!
Comment by KrissyLove — May 18, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
I had similar thoughts, except for Jacob being their captain. NICE! I agree!! I also agree that Richard is the man behined the curtain….Ben just dos’nt know it.
Comment by Stev — May 18, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
I hope charlie lives for the simple fact that if he doesnt than determinism prevails and nothing can be changed. It is all inevitable. All the faith in transformation that we have invested to this point has been ill spent.
Comment by Mick — May 18, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
Oh, and doc - how do we *know* Charlie needs to be saved?
Maybe the two unknown females down there are just going to give him the Benry treatment and eventually he’ll be able to convince them that he was on a plane that crashed, ect, ect, ect. That’s assuming they’re not evil (though didn’t I just say assume nothing? D’oh!). And, unless, of course, I’ve missed something - if that’s the case I apologise sincerely.
Comment by KrissyLove — May 18, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
Why would anyone hate Charlie. His is like every young male in this world. Scared, lonely, misunderstood and desperately seeking acceptance and a sense of purpose.
As time has gone on, he has, Friend to Claire and Father figure to Aaron. We have seen him grow up in a short time and in the process kick a nasty drug habit. He has been a true friend the Hurley and as much a rock at the beach camp as any other figure this season.
He is truly his father’s son. A working class stiff that looks out for his family first (Claire, Aaron and Hurley), his neighbors second (our losties) will do what is necessary for the group when he has to.
To me that is something special. That is being a good person. That is something that should be cherished and protected.
But for you Charlie haters out there that wasn’t enough. He was to plain, to boring, to normal for you. You couldn’t see the special things he did just by being himself.
And now that Charlie is willing doing something truly extra-ordinary you say “Don’t let him die.”
I say they should let him die. Charlie is clearly too good for you anyway.
Comment by Whyyouahater — May 18, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
Here’s a thought for ya…… When Domanic said that Charlie will accomplish a lot without actually being there, here’s what he ment: Charlie is the one who goes through the Looking glass portal to the outside world. He will be trasported to his past and will subsiquently change somthing which will have a positive effect in the future. Those helicopters Demond saw that save Clair and Aaron?? Desmond obviously did’nt tell Charlie the whole truth about his vision. Also…
******SPOILER*******!!!!!!!!!
If you have read the spoilers for Jacks flash backs you know he attended a funeral for someone yet unknown. That someone is Charlie.
Comment by Stev — May 18, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
For me I’ve always been a Charlie fan, that is to say that I’ve always “got him” and what he was all about. This just was my proof for it.
As I’ve said from the beginning, I would hate to see him go and he’d better not. Lost needs to stop that ax that they swing so easily. Enough already.
Comment by MagnoliaSouth — May 18, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
Whyyouahater, I understand your frustration, because, as I stated previously, Charlie is my favorite character. Over the past couple of months, reading everybody say “just let him *die* already” hasn’t been easy. You just want to scream “NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!” But I never once lost faith in him. However, I think it’s sortof ironic that you used the screenname “Whyyouahater” to *hate* on the people who want/wanted him to die. The things you said will only spread extra hate, which is not what the Lost community needs right now. Don’t be so hard on them, please, from a fellow (still slightly frustrated) Charlie lover
Comment by KrissyLove — May 18, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
its just a show.
Comment by HateKate — May 18, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
Sometimes I almost wish I could say that. “Almost” being the operative word.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
i didn’t care whether or not harold crick died, but the film should have explained itself a little better. sort of like when lost finally ends and we still don’t know what the smoke monster is, or why richard hasn’t aged, for example.
if charlie dies, then i want to see a helicoptor come for claire and aaron as a result. otherwise, charlie will have given his life under false pretenses.
Comment by ofd — May 18, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
I’d have to say that the episode did kind of make me feel something for Charlie aside from my typical Charlie malaise. Not since the Sun kidnapping (which I thought was kind of bad ass, but I’m a root for the bad guy type) had I felt that he was really worthwhile. The one problem I had with the episode was that in the beginning of Season 1 Charlie was trying to get with Shannon before his Claire fixation. It only lasted maybe an episode or two, but for the sake of posterity the person e was trying to get with immediately after the plane crash wasn’t Claire….just saying it. (Yay redundancy) I don’t know I always felt that the love was a bit forced. Think about it: Kidnaps her baby, things get weird b/t the two, hatch blows up and she kisses him. But, I’ve learned to let it go and roll with it. In closing it was a good penultimate chapter to what has shaped to be a damn fine season. And hey, the brought Rose and Bernard back…probably to kill them, but it’s nice to see them again.
Oh, and this made me laugh hysterically when my lady friend said it so enjoy. Okay, so last week the losties were getting prepared a la Home Alone. So we did our best Sayid impressions and said lines from Home Alone. Here were the funniest three in order: “You give up or are you thirsty for more?” “Is this toothbrush ADA approved” and the winner “Buzz’s girlfriend…Woof.” Imagine it and try not to laugh.
Comment by B — May 18, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
I agree with you totally. I’ve always been a big fan of Charlie (especially the Charlie-Claire-Aaron family thing), and ever since Desmond’s first premonition I’ve been dreading his death (and hating Desmond for having the future flashes). I still think his chances of living are slim to nothing, but I’ll still hope…
Comment by Wolfie — May 18, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
Let’s keep a little praticality, even on a show about smoke monsters manifesting into thoughts from someone’s mind..
The Looking Glass is not a portal to the outside world. If it were, how would the plane arrive on the island?
I’ll submit to the IDEA that it MIGHT be a portal to another world but that’s not how people leave the island. I really think I would lose respect for the show if they just sprung that on everyone, that getting to the island is utilized the same way as the Stargate movie…
And if Richard arrived on the Black Rock, he wouldn’t be anymore special than Ben or Rouseau or Desmond…He is obviously a native of the Island, an Original, thus explaining the aging stopping after a certain point….
And Charlie improved his worth last night, or more specifically Dominic did, putting forth a great acting performance and really making us care about him…But as soon as he hit the inside of that Hatch and started screaming, I’m alive, I went back to wanting him to die….
His best moment was puking into the copier….That was my Greatest Hit for Charlie…A one hit wonder
Comment by El Prez — May 18, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
About Richard and the whole aging issue. One thing that I haven’t seen brought up, in this regard, is that when Richard is recruiting Juliet, he shows her CT images/x-rays of a woman and asks her what she sees (paraphrasing here). She says by the look of the uterus, the woman is in her 70’s (way past childbearing age). Richard says it is a woman in her 20’s…..etc.
So, not only are the young women who can somehow get pregnant (and that may only be with fertility treatments) dying in the 2nd trimester, but some or all of these same women have uterus’ that are aging way too fast! Consider: their “outsides” still look young and if Richard was truthful about the real age of the woman what does this mean? Richard’s outsides don’t seem to age, the “regular” men like Ben, seem to age appropriately, the women living on the island have their insides aging aggressively fast (no wonder they can’t carry a pregnancy to term, but you’d think they would miscarry or go into premature labor,not that they would die - it is hard to figure out what Juliet and Ethan were trying to do to save the pregnant woman in the OR, it was just a huge bloody mess in her midsection, which doesn’t make much obstetrical sense. If they got the baby out, they should be able to save the mother….) women who come from off the island and who have had normal aging can get pregnant and we know/believe Danielle had Alex on the island without dying, as well as Claire.
Anyway, lots of questions…anyone with some guesses as to why the women’s insides are so aged(the “islands” punishment for Ben behaving badly?) and/or why pregnancy kills the mothers? Or how this might relate to Richards lack of aging?
Comment by momof12 — May 18, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
Stev,
I mean this with all due respect. You like Lost, so that makes you respectable. However… Just putting *** Spoiler *** without someway to cover it up is not helpful. It was easy to see what this spoiler was about which you “warned” us. I hope no one does that again!
On a positive note, I’m glad that others think Richard is the Man Behind the Curtain. I thought I was crazy for a while. Or very lonely in my absoluter rightness. He is so in control of Ben (and John, and Juliette…)
Totally off-topic: I think Tom saves the day. Still think he’s gonna get all sentimental about his football games with Jack and his crush on Juliette, that he sacrifices himself for the group.
Comment by tomfishstory — May 18, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
momof12 –
I think you raise an interesting point. The issue with the women is that they are dying before the fetus reaches viability. In DOC, Juliet tells Sun that she is 8 weeks pregnant, and that women die in the middle of the 2nd trimester, or around 20 weeks gestation.
A fetus is viable when vital organs like the lungs and kidneys can operate on their own. This occurs at least 23 weeks into the pregnancy (timed from the date of the last menstrual period). Before that point a fetus cannot be sustained even with a respirator. So even having a “NICU hatch” wouldn’t solve the problem.
But yes, why are the women also dying? Are they bleeding to death? If an older woman gets pregnant, the odds increase that when she miscarries, she will hemhorrage severely. If they don’t have proper medical equipment to stop it, the women could easily bleed out. Hemhorraging is also a not uncommon problem for some women when they reach menopause and can result in women having hysterectomies.
So, in short, your older-insides hypothesis could explain why the women are dying… Their insides are too old to sustain a pregnancy past 20 weeks.
Comment by kkty — May 18, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
I think Charlie will be shot in the opening seconds of the next episode.
That’s what I’d do if I was writing it.
Comment by TheSlasher — May 18, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
Guys,
I too think the easy way to shutdown the Under-water hatch to cut the wire? dont know why they are taking the long-tough-route to flip the switch.
May be bcos they want to bring in more mystery thru the Looking-the-glass hatch and add more spice leading to the season-finale! Like they brought the surprise element of those 2 women with guns. Remenber Juliet mentioned that noone among “Others” know about the hatch except Ben.
I love every moment of Lost! Whenever I see Lost, I always feel that I’m one of those lost’ies in the island. Its damn good…amazing!
As most of you mentioned I would like Charlie not to die!
Just a wild guess, I expect Locke to return on season finale to help our guys fight Ben & co!
Another Lost’ie.
Comment by Tippu — May 19, 2007 @ 2:17 am
the two women in the hatch are cassidy and jacks wife. in “lost: the answers” they gave extreme closeups of both women and its the same face….anyone else catch it?
Comment by jason — May 19, 2007 @ 9:04 am
I rewatched parts of The Answers and the cable looks just to be a steel cable wrapped in plastic. There are no power conduits in the cable. It seems more to be an anchor than an umbilical chord.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 19, 2007 @ 9:44 am
“the two women in the hatch are cassidy and jacks wife. in “lost: the answers” they gave extreme closeups of both women and its the same face….anyone else catch it?”
No and no. The women in the hatch are neither cassidy nor jacks wife. There is a 0 percent chance. Unless they say the characters got reconstructive surgery and are now played by different actors.
Comment by Jason — May 19, 2007 @ 10:30 am
“Greates hits” was absolutely heart-wrenching! It’s been killing me to watch dom monahagn “die” numerous times…and now it looks like it’s finally going to happen. It seems to easy to kill charlie now that they’ve set everything up…too predictable…on the other hand, boone’s death took an entire episode, and that outcome was pretty obvious from the moment locke pulled him out of the fallen plane. I really hope charlie survives…but it’d be tragically poetical to kill him now that he has made peace with his life. and he’s dying so they may live. to have him end on a hero note is bittersweet…I dunno. i’d like to know one way or the other by the finale, though. not knowing if he’s dead or alive for 7 months would drive me crazy.
unrelated, but this should open up a new thread of speculation…no way we get through season 3 w/o Michael or Walt coming back. They couldn’t have gotten off the island. and it would be a bloody brilliant twist to bring them back for the finale!
Comment by kelpipper — May 20, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Anyone know why all characters have had problems with their fathers! At first I thought this may be a coincidence, but when I found out Ben killed his father it became obvious that it is more complex. Even Claires baby has parenting issues relating to its father figure. Also the characters seem to be entwined through their fathers, this can be seen by looking at the connection between Jack and Claire and Locks father being the cause of Sawyers fathers death. (You can almost pick any character and find this problem)
Could this recurring theme be the reason why all the characters have been pulled to the island and provide any reasoning to why women on the island are having such trouble giving birth? Will this be the storyline that will end the entire series?
In the last episode I saw possible trust issues between Charlie and his father (swimming pool) that leads to the conclusion that his character will not be lost. The new information revealed by his character must be developed and means that Charlie will be saved or his fate will be unknown such as the location of both Michael and Walt until a later season. Or is everything I am saying totally incorrect?
Comment by jayjay — May 20, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
I think that when Ethan hung Charlie from the tree in Season 1, Charlie was meant to die, but didn’t, and at that point something happened :S.
I ALSO think it is possible Charlie did sort-of die in The Looking Glass station, but I’m pretty convinced and my fingers are crossed that he survived. I mean, we see Locke’s dad saying he is dead, then Sawyer kills him :S.
I think that the losties are on that island to make up for all the bad things that they did in their lives; if they are good on the island ect ect, they will survive. If they don’t change, and do more ’sins’ they will die.
Charlie has overcome his drug addiction on the island and has fell in love with Claire, and protected Aaron.
He shouldn’t die!
The whispers, I think it made quite clear in Ben’s episode, are the dead people, NOT the others!
The whispers always come before someone dies, and they were whispering “Ana Lucia” before Shannon died. They Ana Lucia shot Shannon. Not a coincidence!
Anything is possible, though!
It’s Lost!!!
Janie xx
Comment by Janie — May 21, 2007 @ 1:23 am
During the swimming pool flash back did anyone else hear a women call for Desmond. I might just have been hearing things.
Comment by Gempster — May 21, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if they DO kill Charlie in the season finale only to find a way to bring him back in the season 4 premiere. Revive him or allow Desmond to go back in time or something.
We’ve got three seasons to go. They aren’t getting on any helicopters anytime soon, which means he’ll die in vain if he does die, and that is so unfair.
Without Charlie, Claire and Aaron bore me a little, but when he’s there and they are a family…I guess I always figured the three of them would have a happy life together if/when they get off the island.
It seems so obvious that TPTB would kill him because they’ve been TELLING us that all along.
There are so many other characters I’d rather see go.
Comment by syko4bosco — May 21, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
no way des is going to bail him out this time…this time charlie is the hero. Like the woman in the alley said in his flashback, he’s a hero.
It’s his destiny to die to save them all. He’s a martyr. Charlie ends up flipping the switch. Mikael sets off a grenade in the section of the hatch where charlie is and in an effort to save des before he dies, charlie slams the door to that part of the hatch shut and sacrafices himself so des can live. Charlie ends up drowning and in his last moments, tells des that penny doesn’t know naomi and that its “not penny’s boat”.
Comment by binx — May 22, 2007 @ 12:42 am