Doc’s Finale Predictions and Speculations #1 - Does Ben Say He’s Sorry?
The big spoiler dump that took place this week didn’t leave me much wiggle room, but none-the-less… using only the power of the US and Canadian Previews, I will attempt to make some unembellished predictions of what might happen with some key events in next weeks LOST, without incorporating a single tidbit from the fore mentioned basket of forbidden fruit.
When Ben says "Everything I did, I did for the island!" who do you think he is talking to? Clearly from "Greatest Hits" we see that Richard is getting more and more agitated with Ben’s decision making. Has it finally dawned on the ageless one that Ben’s communion with Jacob is just a bad ventriloquist act?
I’ve actually suspected this since "Man Behind the Curtain." What actually transpired in the episode was anything but an allusion to the "Wizard of Oz" namesake. The Wizard of Oz was a fictional being created by Professor Marvel, but in the 1939 film (not the original book) Professor Marvel appears first as an obviously phony fortune teller. Despite being a huckster, he applies the same reasoning as his Oz counterpart, utilizing double-speak and appealing to Dorothy’s sense of duty to her family to persuade her to forget running away, and get her tail home. Both characters are essentially the same, but in the case of Ben, he has less in common with the Professor Marvel of Oz then he does the roadside fortune teller - because, as we saw, Jacob really exists.
His plea sounded like a cry of contrition, and as we know Ben apologizes to no-one. Taking that into consideration, could it be possible that Ben is in fact making that comment to his own people who have, through some miracle, found out that Ben has not been talking to Jacob all along, and must now account for his nefarious plans.
What do you think?
Oh, I think that’s absolutely a possibility. Perhaps it’s a rejuvenated Locke who tells them what’s what.
Comment by ChrisClark — May 17, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
Good ideas Doc. I was wondering when Richard would do something.
Maybe Locke does take the role of the new leader of the Hostiles. I think Ben needs to be slapped down, and start lurking in the shadows planning his return.
Comment by blackrockbob — May 17, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
my question is, why did ben take locke to the cabin to start with?
was he expecting locke to see/hear jacob?
why go through that whole cherade if he didn’t expect locke to see him - or - why shoot locke because he did actually hear something?
Comment by ofd — May 17, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
I think Ben was half curious to see if Locke could indeed communicate with and/or hear Jacob. He’s not completely ignorant to the fact that Locke is special. I think he needed confirmation before he could plan his reaction.
Ben’s leadership is clearly slipping. The question is, who will follow him until the end… and who won’t. And most importantly, who will die as a result. 6 more days.
“Spoiler free is the way to be”
Comment by theonefin — May 17, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
I think that Ben didn’t actually believe that Locke was special. In spite of the evidence (Ben being able to walk once Locke was around,) it seems that Ben more or less dismisses anything that runs contrary to his view of how things are or should be.
Ben probably didn’t expect Locke to see or hear Jacob. This would both make Locke believe that Jacob wasn’t real and assure Ben that Locke wasn’t a threat to his leadership. Obviously, it backfired.
If Locke had returned to the others saying that there was no Jacob, Ben could use this to convince that Others (or Hostiles, if you prefer) that Locke wasn’t special. The Others certainly believe that Jacob is real. This would eliminate the threat of Locke.
When Locke DID see Jacob, Ben would have had only two choices: concede that Locke was special and meant to lead the group, or eliminate the threat. He chose the latter (though, in his overconfidence, perhape, it was poorly executed.)
Comment by Random Zombie — May 17, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
I hope Ben is usurped and Locke becomes the new leader.
Wouldn’t it be cool if Ben has to live like Danielle throughout the rest of the series? Alone and on the move.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 17, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
I think Ben may be pleading with the “Others” new leader, Locke. After Locke miraculously appears, healed gunshot wound and all, Ben will finally see that Jacob has someone new to talk to. Jacob will be relying on Locke to “help” him, and give the others a new purpose, possible the one Jacob intended for them, instead of the destructive path Ben has lead them down. This would definitely lead to the Jack/Locke showdown….Jack the leader of the castaways and Locke the new leader of the Others. Maybe this will all eventually lead to balance on the island….
Comment by WhiteRabbit21 — May 17, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
I think Ben suspected that Locke is special and so tried to discredit him in front of his followers. If Locke were special, Ben must have realized that would make Locke a threat to his own leadership (surely he’s already aware that there are people within his group who are unhappy with him).
I don’t think Ben wanted or even expected to have to take Locke to meet Jacob, but Locke surprised him by actually showing up with Dead Daddy in tow. This put Ben in a position he did not want to be in, and I think at this point Ben was already pretty sure within himself that if Locke did see and/or hear Jacob, he (Ben) would have to get rid of Locke.
Getting back to when Ben says, “Everything I did I did for the island” in the finale preview, I think he’s finally being called out and confronted by his own people (perhaps due to a return of Locke) and that his leadership is now being directly challenged. Desperate to hold on, he’s trying to justify his past actions.
It also seems to me that since Locke told Ben that he’d heard Jacob’s voice, Ben’s actions are becoming increasingly rushed and reactive. He’s seeming a bit more stressed out lately, isn’t he? It seems to me he’s no longer thinking 50+ moves ahead and is no longer so sure of what’s going to happen. He knows his hold on the people around him is slipping rapidly. His ability to plan ahead and manipulate events depends on his ability to control his own people, and he knows this as well.
Comment by Lance — May 17, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
I’m fairly certain we just caught Juliet in a lie this last episode…
Wasn’t Jack, Juliet and Ben, underwater IN the ‘looking glass station’? Yet, Juliet says that she’s, “never been there”…
I thought it was an awkward line when she said it… but now it seems fairly obvious (remember when Jack tried to escape, all of the rooms started to flood…) that she HAS been there and she’s holding something back…
But for what reason?
Comment by Bryan — May 17, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
I personally would like to know more about the Ben - Richard dynamic. We know from Man Behind The Curtain that Richard “recruited” Ben as he recruited Juliet. We know that Ben is a tragic figure due to his father (what else is new), but we don’t have the slightest clue as to Ben’s motivations. What led to him becoming the leader (or Jacob’s second in command) and what is his motivation for being leader? How does Richard fit into all of this? and further how does John Locke tie in, as well?
Comment by Gitmo — May 17, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
@Bryan
Jack was being held in the Hydra station, part of which is underwater for marine animal observation (Dharma purpose)
Comment by Gitmo — May 17, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
Here’s another question/thought - there was certainly a specific reason that Ben chose to shoot Locke as they looked over the mass grave of Dharma folk. It wasn’t just a convenient spot to perform the act.
Is there something about that mass grave that has physical properties? Maybe the same stuff Ben spread around Jacob’s cabin is also around the grave. Or is it just a metaphorical place Ben buries all of his sins at..?
But this is interesting also: Let’s say Locke had never seen or heard Jacob. Locke and Ben go back to the Others and Locke tells all of them that Ben is a nutjob, there is no Jacob, etc. Wouldn’t that have threatened Ben’s hold on the Others as well?
I think that if Locke hadn’t heard Jacob, Ben never would have shot him. I don’t think Ben is afraid of the Others, including Richard. He can control them. I don’t think he’s afraid of Locke, either. He can obviously manipulate that man as well.
I think he’s still afraid of Jacob. We saw a weakened Jacob, whatever he/it is. And if Locke can help Jacob escape, that’s the real threat to Ben.
Comment by Nick — May 17, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
Mmm, yeah, I could see that. I thought they were just moving him to the hydra occasionally… that’s why we saw him being moved in at times… (and why Kate and Sawyer saw him at those times too).
But yeah, I could see him being at the hydra the whole time… it’s just weird for there to be a room full of unending water… enough to flood 3+ compartments (the hall, his room and the viewing room).
Comment by Bryan — May 17, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
I was wondering as I watched the Richard-Ben interaction last night if Richard was perhaps in on Juliet’s intentions. What if Richard wants to remove Ben (perhaps because Ben is using the island for selfish reasons), but can’t because Ben controls the guys with the guns and apparently has some sort of control over Jacob. He wanted to delay the attack until the scheduled time because he wanted the gun toters to arrive when they were supposed to and be wiped out by the losties, leaving Richard and Locke to assume control.
Possible??
As to the Looking Glass, my guess is that since folks come to the island unconcious (and supposedly on the sub), the truth is that they come by way of some portal at the LG station, are transferred to the sub for the final (albeit short) trip to the lagoon with the dock. Perhaps the portal at the LG is a portal between alternate realities, or something (…I guess I’m thinking back to long past discussions about black holes etc that might be at the heart of the island’s powers).
Comment by SeenMyLuggage? — May 17, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
This later part of the season had me thinking Ben isn’t that bad of a guy…. until the preview for the finale where he says kill them. He will regain uber-evil status.
Comment by J_Zabi — May 17, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
I think Locke would have seen Jacob if he’d actually killed his father. Ben killed his father and is the only one to see Jacob, maybe being special and eliminating the thing that causes you the most pain gives that extra something needed to see Jacob.
Comment by deeznutz — May 17, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
If Ben commands it and Tom and Pryce actually do kill Sayid, Jin and Bernard or any one of them, moreso Sayid for me would ruin the series.
Personally, I think from the promo we see Rose saying there was supposed to be three explosions but there were only two. I think Hurley and Sawyer go back to the camp and somehow rescue Sayid, Jin and Bernard.
Were I anyone on that island and Ben were apologizing or saying whatever, I wouldn’t care. I’d tie him up to a tree sure to be exposed to the sunlight and let the buzzards have him.
Comment by Cha Cha — May 17, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Maybe Jacob only exists because Ben willed it. Obviously, Ben is a liar. That being said, the producers said that the “box” that Ben spoke of was a metaphor. Clearly, they admit that there is a metaphoric box on the island that can summon people and probably animals, maybe inanimate objects as well. Why couldn’t it physically reproduce a figment of someone’s imagination?
At this point, I have to say the Island is the central character of the show. The Island represents the “God” that most people worship. A “God” that influences conflict to drive His agenda. That’s putting it bluntly, but think about it. A lot of people believe that their “God” tests them. Other’s believe that it is “God’s Will” for certain events to play out. A good example is a Hebrew belief that if the Third Temple is raised the Messiah will come. Christians believe in the “End of Days”. Now dont get your panties in a bunch, I’m using Religion in general, and God is in quotations because I’m referring to multiple religion’s Gods.
This Island is the catalyst to all the events that are currently going on in Lost. It is the angry, happy, compassionate God that we’ve all read about. One could describe what the Other’s are doing at this point as a sort of an Inquistion. Only without the choice. Those that believe, or are able to believe are “saved”. The rest are sorted out by the Island. It seems that the Island is influencing the Others to wipe out non-believers or “Bad People”.
So what’s the point of all of this? Well, consider Christianity. How does the rest of the story play out in Revelations? An Anti-Christ ascends, and ultimately the Messiah returns to judge the living and the dead. Who’s our Messiah?
Comment by Higdon — May 17, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
Questions:
Is Jacob maybe not such a nice guy / entity?
Did Jacob tell Ben to go early to the beach because…?
How did he find out?
Was it Ben making it up?
What a coincidence… Go early to the beach… The 815ers are not ready yet…
How did he find out?
Does he know he’s going to a possible trap?
Why does he seem in such a rush?
Who told him…?
Discuss the show, don’t spoil it!
Comment by Danny — May 17, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
obviously there is still 1 or more traitors among them. jack most likely made a deal with ben if he could arrange a trade of all the castaways for his and someone
elses freedom off the island. what a deal, everyone including the troublesome danielle all led right into a trap laid out at the tower. only thing though, they forget about Locke. his sudden appearance will be certain to undermine bens leadership immediately. richard and co. will listen to Locke instead. One thing
else, this ship they speak of, i’m certain it is a
research vessel owned by the others. it was sent to check up on the island since communications had suddenly halted because of the e.m.p. from the swan
station. jacks idea of freedom off the island may in fact turn into imprisonment on this ship along with everyone else. we shall see.
Comment by kendral — May 17, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Could the downed helicopter pilot be an other? She did have that (Italian semi-consious?) exchange with the Russian. Do the others have a presence in the ‘real-world’? If Dharma is deposed, what is the source of the great intelligence the others have on everyone?
Comment by Crow — May 17, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
NEW LIST BEING CREATED:
All those in favor of Richard becoming leader of the Others again will be added to the list:
Muscle Bob Buff Pants
Richard is awesome and I hope he gets at least 2 flashbacks next season. We need Richard character progression!
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 17, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Well I personally think he is agitated with the whole locke/jacob issue (he probably knows there will be massive repercussions), and his way of venting frustrations is getting back at the losties for whatever hole he ended up digging himself into. I think he’s a man on a mission to get to those losties before he loses the power to do so.
Comment by Kellybee — May 17, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
I vote for Boss being the new leader of the Others.
Boss 1,382,394,910 :: Richard -0!
Comment by Boss — May 17, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
As I was watching Naomi talk to Charlie last night, I couldn’t help thinking that she was lying. You would think that if there was a big greatest hits album and a huge memorial that as soon as he mentioned he was in a band (from England no less) that she would know exactly who he was. Also, when he mentioned their hit song she didn’t even know it. She never actually mentioned a specific detail about him or his band. Everything she said could have easily been made up. I just don’t think she has the losties best interests in mind. Darhma perhaps??
Spoilers are for hosers!!
Comment by MDG — May 17, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
Buff, I’m with you. Richard is becoming as interesting as Ben to me. I’d rather see more Dharma/Others/Hostiles flashbacks than anything about the Losties.
You know who else I think is interesting right now? Karl. Who’s his daddy? What’s his deal? Is he an ageless hostile?
Comment by Will your hero — May 17, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
I’m on the list. I don’t think Locke will take the post as expected, he is on a personal Journey. Wonder what this does for poor Ben though?
Comment by DocArzt — May 17, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
My take on the sneakpeak at next week:
1. Thought it was Jack telling Kate “eveything I did, it wasn’t for the island, it was for you…I love you.”
2. What about Claire possibly being Jack’s half sis?
3. Who’s gonna get killed? of the alleged 3 to bite the dust; one of them has to be Charlie…as they can’t keep killing him every episode or so.
4. who’s gonna survive? Desmond is interesting & I believe will survive to Season4 as he has the whole Penny connection for possible rescue & his flashes are interesting that could be strong plot thickeners on an ongoing basis. Jack & Locke & Ben, b/c that’s just great TV tension. Kate & Sawyer also add great tension. Plus, you have the whole love triangle of Kate, Jack & Sawyer. Oh & now…
5. Kate’s lovechild - I think Kate will be pregnant & Sawyer will get offed, leaving Jack to love her & care for her or “comfort her” in her baby’s daddy’s death (Sawyer) that Jack loves her & she loves him.
So, my prediction is say Aloha to Charlie & Sawyer. I hope Juliet gets 86′d. She makes me want to hurl & the last few episodes where Jack is hanging with her made me like him less too. But, I LOVE the side of Jack from last night.
I hope Locke, Sayid, Jack, Kate, Ben, and Sawyer survive this season’s finale…the show wouldn’t be as good without them.
Comment by Lost Lush — May 17, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
I would think that if Richard were going to take on the leadership role he would have done it by now.
Plus, if Jacob is the “Emperor” like TPTB have eluded to, then Richard may be nothing more than Grand Moff Tarkin. A second in command, but not someone who has the Force behind him.
I like Richard though. Nestor Carbonell is verygood at playing aloof.
Comment by El Prez — May 17, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Maybe, he’s saying it to Rousseau, as a nifty little mate of mine found this screencap of the trailer, Ben looks bloody, AND seems to be captured (haha once again by Rousseau and the LOSTies)check this out, i think this confirms it …kinda :S….great posts as always Doc
[img]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g300/yas-m/PDVD_000.jpg[/img]
I so feel like LOST season 2 was a diff show, I MEAN, as in i don’t really remember him as Henrey gale..and have the time consistency in my head kinda thing, but it shall be wicked! Danielle and Benry reunited :)..and ALEX steps out! WOO!
Comment by Darnyay — May 17, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
THE NEW LIST:
Muscle Bob Buff Pants
Will Your Hero
DocArzt
WE VOTE FOR RICHARD AS NEW LEADER.
El Prez I think that Richard is more important than Grand Moff Tarkin…it seemed as if he was the leader before Ben but let Ben take the mantle because he was special.
I don’t know if he can be referenced to anyone in Star Wars.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 17, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
I don’t know what to think! A few things that keep going through my mind is that the writers since the beginning have been leading us down many paths about the others. First, they look like savages taking people against thier will. Then, we are lead to believe they are Darma personel only to find out they are not really that but that they are the supposed original inhabitants of the island with maybe a few left over Darma people. Now we are virtually are back to square one or season one if you want to be technical about it and the same question of who are these people and what do they want?
I feel like we are going in a never ending circle, does anyone else agree?
Comment by JennB — May 17, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Maybe this has been mentioned before, but my thinking goes as follows:
In the scene in the cabin, Ben *was* faking talking to Jacob. He’d spoken to Jacob many times in the past, but since the 815ers arrived Jacob had stopped appearing to him, like Lucifer fallen from the grace of god. He was half hoping to just run the bluff on John, or that Jacob would appear to them both and he would be restored in Jacob’s graces. However, what happened is that Jacob spoke only and privately to Locke, and that was the final straw for Ben. Consequently he snapped, leading to the scene at the graveside, and his less than relaxed demeanour ever since.
Comment by Moore — May 17, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
I keep going back to the ep when Ben said something like, I needed a spinal surgeon and one just happened to fall out of the sky.
I agree, I think Richard has always been the leader, somehow he put ben in charge to be the fall guy for some bigger purpose.
Also when Richard was showing Locke the file on Sawyer and he was downplaying the capture of the women for fertility issues by Ben.
Something tells me Richard has always been the Man…
but I am probably wrong
As for the Star wars reference, could Richard maybe be like Yoda?
Comment by lostjunkie — May 17, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
(spoken using my best Hurley impression):
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, No.
Comment by gusteaux — May 17, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
I’d agree that it was Jack that said I love you, but I’d be willing to bet it was in a flashback and not on island. What, in the last 15 episodes, has Jack done to even hint at loving somebody on the island?
As for Ben, I’d say he has fallen out of grace with Jacob. The tumor is proof of this. If he makes an apology, my guess is that it would be to his people and not Jacob.
Comment by C — May 17, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
I can’t go with you on this one Musclebobbuffpants.
I think Richard does what he wants to, but I don’t think he is a leader type.
If Locke dies, then I think that Richard would take over. I just don’t see Locke leaving the show.
Richard seems to be more in tune with the island. I think Ben trapped Jacob and Richard might not be able to go to that cabin either.
Comment by Blackrockbob — May 17, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
Dark, In the US promo it seemed that Danielle has Ben tied up and pulling him along behind her. Has he turned himself over?
Comment by Sayid it aint so — May 17, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Sorry Doc! I have my sites mixed up.
Comment by Sayid it aint so — May 17, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Good lord, would you shut it about the spoilers? You’ve mentioned them so many times in your blog that I serously have a hard understanding it. Do you *want* people to read them? That’s the only possible solution I can gather. You write two essays about your thoughts concerning them, and have probably given about as much exposure on this blog to the fandom as darkufo, the fuselage, and AICN on their own. If they’re so real and so awful why don’t you just shut the hell up instead of using it as a lead-in for your finale predictions?
Sheesh…
Comment by Sterile Firefly — May 17, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
Wow, do you feel better now SF? They do make drugs for that, y’know.
Comment by DocArzt — May 17, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
Wow. You said more about the spoilers in your little panty wetting episode than he did in this post. Why don’t you shut up?
Comment by OpinionatedBastard — May 17, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
Thanks Gus. I was just kind of thinking out loud.
Jenn:)
Comment by Jenn — May 17, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
No one cares that much about Richard. He seems at most a yesman for whoever.
Comment by Silky — May 17, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
Okay, this article is on the finale predictions and speculations. If you seriously think you’re not even going to get an inkling of a spoiler you’re kidding yourselves.
As for the pics of Danielle leading Ben by a rope and being bloody and stuff, I say hallelujah. Someone should have shown Ben the original Friday the 13th b/c that alone would’ve taught him not to mess with “mother”. It’s about time that Danielle avenges this separation from her child and hopefully saves my Iraqi God’s life in the process.
Comment by Cha Cha — May 17, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
MuscleBob…
I have another conclusion. I agree that Locke will not be the new leader. He is on a journey that will solve the riddle and ultimately lead everyone off the island.
I think that Richard will still be there providing support to a leader from one of the losties. Richard may also go with Locke to help him discover some island secrets, but not necessarily be in charge of the others.
I guess I can’t be on the list. I feel so excluded.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 17, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
Did anyone look up the name charlies brother said, “something Stanton” I think??? Also Juliet should have known about the people hanging out it the looking glass, is she still on Bens side??? Please comment…
Comment by Charliesgrandfather — May 17, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
I agree that Ben did not hear Jacob, but was faking it. I also think Ben has Jacob imprisoned in that cabin, and whatever the substance is that Locke touched and is encircling the cabin is what keeps Jacob imprisoned.
I’m not sure why Ben ended up as the leader of the Others, but whatever it was they believed him to be, they were mistaken. He has lied to everyone — not just the Losties — and, due to his slow-healing surgery and the appearance of Locke, some of the Others have lost faith in him.
He had to shoot Locke because his life depended on it. When the majority of the Others come to the conclusion that Ben is an imposter, his life isn’t worth a dime. The fact that Locke was healed by the Island and heard Jacob’s plea for help threatened Ben’s carefully contrived web of lies. First he tried to discredit Locke. That didn’t work, so he tried to kill him.
Comment by Acovell — May 17, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
I agree. Makes me hopeful that when he tells Mr. Friendly and Pryce to kill Jin, Bernard and Sayid they don’t.
Comment by Cha Cha — May 17, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Why didn’t just cut the cable coming out of the sea?
Or have Sayid tap into it and broadcast a messeage?
Comment by CoachJ — May 17, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
Ben is the illegitimate leader of the Others who has power because he wanted it so bad he manipulated and forced his way into its possession. Locke is the legitimate leader who’s a loner and does not want that power.
Yet I think that Locke does not want to leave the island under any circumstances. If that means assuming the mantle of leadership of the Others, he’d take up the staff in an instant.
Comment by Lance — May 17, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
I think Richard is the man behind the curtain. It seems as though he almost isn’t human and that he NEEDS a human (or non-native) to INTERACT with the island in some way. He gets excited whenever someone has a strange experience on the island, such as Ben seeing his dead mother and, of course, Locke being able to walk again.
Whatever keeps him from aging, or “remembering birthdays”, doesn’t allow him to interact very well with the mysteries of the island and he’s waiting for the guy who can get done what he wants done. He’s the mover. He’s the shaker. He’s the hand on the wheel, I think. It’s just not obvious because he HAS to take his chosen’s lead on things, since they’re the ones connected with the island. And I think he’s decided that Locke is in and Ben is out.
Comment by AZRogue — May 17, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
This has been mentioned several times — it would be suicide to cut the cable. Assuming they could find something big and sharp enough to do it, that “something” would be metal. Cutting into a live electrical cable with something metal would cause electrocution. It seems kind of obvious to me.
Comment by acovell — May 17, 2007 @ 8:34 pm
They have dynamite. They don’t have to “cut” the cable, they can just blow it up. However, they have no idea what things are really like down there. Maybe there’s a back up generator or emergency batteries.
Still, I would have tried it, just to see if the interference went away.
Comment by AZRogue — May 17, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Actually, trying to blow it up with dynamite would just kick up a lot of sand and/or water. The cable would just fly up into the air and come back down again with little or no damage. Any cable that runs through sea water is going to be well-insulated enough that an explosion wouldn’t harm it. It would have to be severed with something very sharp — and it wouldn’t be an easy thing to do.
Comment by acovell — May 17, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
After watching the season recap, I think Jack and Locke will come to a confrontation over the sat phone.
Comment by ThomasamohT — May 17, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
The cable is apparently nothing more than an anchor to the island, so they needn’t worry. They could sever it with metal (or sharp rocks or whatever) and all they’d be doing is severing the anchor. I see no evidence that the cable carries any kind of electric current. It appears it’s just a tether to the island.
Of course, on this show appearances are endlessly deceiving.
Comment by Lance — May 17, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
Its been announced that “Richard” has a new role in the next Batman movie as the mayor of Gotham. He long life might be coming to an end, or he may use hiatus time (most motion pictures are shot in 6 months and actors often fit their roles into shorter “shooting” times). I think Ben might be history, finally!! He was only supposed to be in three episodes of Season 2 and his strong performance won him Season 3. His pleading he did everything for the island may be his last words before Danielle or Alex shoots him. Rumors abound that “Charlie” hasn’t been signed for Season 4. I think his death would be a sad misstep for the series. He has too much to live for and his survival would mean that the future isn’t fixed and that, while the Lostees are on the island by fate, that fate was written by choices they and others made.
A great scene would be for Charlie to come back from the looking glass to hear Desmond say, “I guess I was wrong, your not going to die.” Charlie then replies, “Oh, I am going to die. But, I’m going to be the one who chooses when, where, and how”.
Comment by dbuer — May 17, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
Hey, I just thought of a cool twist. How ’bout Charlie suddenly realizes that the two women who are torturing him in the Looking Glass are the same two Liam found him in bed with in Helsinki!!! The reason they have him tied up and are beating him is he won’t repeat the threesome with them because of his relationship with Claire. Being stuck underwater for years without a man, they take out their frustration by beating the S&^t out of poor Charlie.
He then tells them he will let them have their way with him only in the dark. He then asks them to turn out the lights by flicking the switch next to the flashing yellow light.
Comment by dbuer — May 17, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
After they flick the switch, Naomi’s satellite phone starts to work. She calls her ship and hears Penelope’s voice say,……..”I’m sorry I can’t come to the phone right now…….”. That will be the closing scene of the season.
Comment by dbuer — May 17, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
Last post for the night. They re-played the scene just before Ben shoots Locke. Ben says, “I’m one of those that avoided ending up in that ditch!!!!”. This means Ben didn’t kill all the Dharma group. The others must be a combination of Dharma survivors and hostiles!!! Did Ben let Annie live, or did he kill the only girl who ever really cared about him? Was Tom the zoologist who took care of the Bears? He seems to show strong emotional loyalty to Ben. Maybe, Tom is Ben’s lover. That would make both Ben’s and Tom’s deaths possible for the finale.
Comment by dbuer — May 17, 2007 @ 9:37 pm
While I think that Tom is the ‘gay’ character so discussed in recent past, I’m not so sure he’s all that loyal to Ben (much less his lover).
Comment by Lance — May 17, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
I was thinking Annie might be one of the chicks down in the looking glass. Which may be why Ben said it was flooded.
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 17, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
I was thinking Annie might be one of the chicks down in the looking glass. Which may be why Ben said it was flooded.
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 17, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
I was thinking Annie might be one of the chicks down in the looking glass. Which may be why Ben said it was flooded.
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 17, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
A little off topic, but interesting:
One thing that struck me about ‘The Man behind the Curtain’ was that when little Ben went outside, just before he saw Richard we all heard the “whispers”. We haven’t heard those in a long time!
Are the whispers a tool of the others? Why stop using it now? Was it a trick to look and feel primitive? If so, why was Richard so primitive?
and while I’m on it, why the hell was Ethan so strong? Strong enough to pick up a man by the throat with one arm is not normal.
Comment by Mattlesnake — May 17, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
I know this is random but maybe Ben is telling the truth that he did everything for the island instead of manipulating his people into staying on the island. Jacob hates technology so is in not fair to surmize that he may have instructed Ben to block transmission to avoid the detection of the island and indeed the purge of the Dharma initiative.
Comment by Sbujero — May 18, 2007 @ 12:56 am
I agree that Ben is probably talking to the Others, and that they know that hes lying about Jacob - likely because they look up to Locke now.
But did anybody see the still of Sayid, Benard and Jin being held captive - when ben said “kill them” I think he meant those 3 (or talking to the Others in the Looking Glass about Charlie and Desmond)
Comment by The Ghosts of the DHARMA Initiative — May 18, 2007 @ 2:43 am
Ben is not sorry for anything IMO but he may say it
What id Like to know…………….
is the chicks in the looking glass the OTHER others?
if not where are all these other others that was supposed to make ben and co. not seem all that bad?
1 more ep. no other others…..we have been going to see them for a while now(heard on podcasts several times)… or am i just missing things?
Comment by Wes Johnson — May 18, 2007 @ 2:59 am
I believe Ben is in control of the Others, he has somehow managed to take control of Jacob, so that no one can see or hear him. Locke was shot because he would go back and tell everyone what he heard and saw, that Jacob is in Ben’s captivity…
Comment by signify — May 18, 2007 @ 3:10 am
i reckon ben can maybe see jacob/communicate with him, but only occasionally, or perhaps jacob doesnt say everything to ben..or has stopped talking to him etc.
i dont belive ben is entirely following his own agenda, because..as with everything lost..that would be too easy, and make ben too 2-dimensional a character.
Comment by mw — May 18, 2007 @ 5:09 am
Juliet came all the way in the sub.
Comment by dug — May 18, 2007 @ 6:04 am
Juliet came all the way in the sub.
Comment by dug — May 18, 2007 @ 6:04 am
Exactly! Richard can’t be leader, he doesn’t have “the force” behind him like Prezzy said. Richard knew about Jacob, he just needed the means to communicate with him. Then along came Ben, Anakin Skywalker, was a good person, then turned very evil along the way..
Comment by jimyy — May 18, 2007 @ 6:31 am
Jack, Ben and Juliet weren’t in the Looking Glass in that episode. They were holding jack in another hatch on the island, not underwater.
Comment by Chad — May 18, 2007 @ 6:36 am
I think that Locke’s hand is covering the wound, and it doesn’t look like it is bleeding. I think perhaps Locke reappears, b/c he has not been injured, or recovers, tells the others what Ben did, and gains the upper hand. I think this might be what leads to Ben’s outburst. Perhaps Locke outs Ben to the others and says that, all that time, Ben could not communicate with Jacob at all, but that Jacob is real, and he can speak with him, and that Ben took him there because Ben needed Locke to tell him (ben) if Jacob was real.
this is just my humble theory. This, to me, would certainly make Ben look weak.
Comment by LockeFan — May 18, 2007 @ 6:42 am
My opinion is that there are only two real leaders on this island. Jack and Ben. Locke has never been able to do anything right in his whole life. What makes anyone think he can lead the others. He is simply not a leader. He would like to see himself as the great hunter/leader but he will never be. Locke is a tragic character. The island seems to favor him for some reason. Maybe because of this. I do think he will be apart of the 4th season but not as the leader of the others.
Comment by AH — May 18, 2007 @ 6:44 am
Now, Dug, how do we know Juliet came all the way in a sub? She was drugged and woke up in the sub, already docked in the lagoon. “The Looking Glass” harkens back to a portal between two worlds/realities/dimensions. Since we know that folks generally don’t arrive when they are awake, it is more than plausible that people actually arrive ‘through the looking glass’ and are ferried to the barracks via the sub. I’d really be interested in figuring out how that works.
Comment by SeenMyLuggage — May 18, 2007 @ 6:53 am
Ok, several things I have noticed and surmised
THAT IS NOT BEN being toted behind Danielle. That guy is much too tall and if you notice the next frame Ben is in FRONT of Jack and Jack seems startled to see him there (with the rest of the Losties behind Jack).
Unless there is some real SCI-FI crap going on here, HOW would people GET to the LOOKING GLASS before boarding the sub for the final leg to the island. And if the sub leg was a just a few miles why the need to strap Juliet in?
Naomi is working for DHARMA. She was sent to see if everything was OK with the project. Communications is cut off, the EMP was on the radar. No one is sending codes anymore…humm do we keep making food drops? Lets send some people out there to check on this. And btw we know DEsmond has been there for the past 3 years so lets send a ruse that she is working for Penny…or better yet, maybe Penny is DHARMA, after all Daddy’s little girl is very, very rich.
Ben is sooooo freakin pissed that Locke heard Locke. I think Ben has him contained somehow with circle of ???? around his shack. Ben’s act is a ruse itself. Jacob/Locke wants loose, released from Ben’s captivity…hence the “Help Me”. Locke can not see himself as that would violate the laws of time travel/looping (one can time travel but can not exist at the same place/time)
Richard is not the leader, nor even displeased with Ben.
Richard was sent to Locke with the file on Sawyer from Ben to edge him on. Richard is merely a pawn like everyone else.
Ben is a complete Jim Jones/david Koresh genius psycho type who is Grand Master manipulator.
Dharma is NOT dead, it is very much alive and well. Ben is carrying the ruse for them.
Charlie will not die but his condition will be left in the air…..
Jack has indeed sold out to Juliet’s plan. He is trying to save himself but blinded by the blonde
(…gee what man isn’t)
The producers have mentioned that there will be an ariel shot….my prediction the final parting scene for the season will be such showing the island in a way we have never thought of…..
Sayid is NOT going to die, otherwise why else would Nadia keep showing up….that connection has to be wrapped up somehow otherwise we have yet another unresolved I’ll-love-you-til-the-day-I-die story.
FATE is at play here…..Desmond’s story IS the story of LOST and not Jack-Kate-Sawyer’s. They are just the sex draw….
In another life, brutha!
Comment by thirdflr — May 18, 2007 @ 6:58 am
Yeah Nestor is playing the mayor, and seeing how they’re already filming and he’s playing a minor role, he’d be done way before Lost begins season 4 production.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 18, 2007 @ 7:30 am
Vote me in.
Locke is too rogue for me. Why on earth is he so gung-ho on keeping everyone on the island. If he wants to stay he can stay. They all don’t have to just cos he wants to find out the reason they’re all seperated by 7 degrees.
Point of discussion: The Answers special last night showed Juliet flashback Not in Portland. Where Richard tells her she can research women and the cause why - when he shows her a MRI or Xray of a woman’s pelvic area/womb and Juliet says it looks like that of a 76 year old woman and he says no she’s 25/26 or something… Did any one catch that ? Does the island age the women’s reproductive system?
Comment by EE — May 18, 2007 @ 7:45 am
to quote a friend of mine
“And by the way. As I recall the last time our other supposed “hero” Jack came face to face with the others, Ben to be specific. The FIRST time Ben offers Jack a way home, Jack cuts a deal! Some Hero!
But im glad he’s not my hero! My hero has been infultrating since the begining! My hero went into the heart of ther others (on his on will, not because he was captured) and demanded some answers!
But hey if ya wanna follow Jack, Kate, and Sawyer be my guest! Im sure you’ll get see them in more experiments like “how to get a fish bone”, or “lets make a deal”, and my favorite “mating at the zoo”.
But as for me, im gonna lay in that ditch until Locke is able to crawl out, and when he does…..lets just say he wont be cutting any deals! lmao”
Comment by jimyy — May 18, 2007 @ 7:45 am
Think about it like this. Your stranded on a deserted island and you want more than anything to be rescued. Jack has gone above and beyond what is needed to take care of everyone. He feel’s salvation will come with being rescued. But on an island as special as this one, and with the dark past of everyone on the island, is being brought back to their miserable lives off island what is really needed? Remember, most of these people have nothing to go back to!
Locke on the other hand feel’s the island itself is their salvation. So its not that he is being selfish, he just see’s something in the island that no one else does. And because only Locke see’s this, and no one else does, he is preceived as selfish. But in the end he will understand the island, and he will bring salvation. Just like he was forced to overcome the disasters of his life, he will help the survivors overcome their own inner demons, and bring balance to their lives.
Jack would probably be dead back in season one when he was chasing his dad and fell off a cliff… Who’s hand was there reaching out to save him? Locke, who convinced Jack that flight 815 needs a leader? Locke.. Who got charlie off the H-Train? Locke. Jack is too blind to see the islands secrects, to focused on science and being rescued. Besides, Jack was supposed to die in the pilot.
Comment by jimyy — May 18, 2007 @ 7:51 am
I think Ben is/was special at some point. Something happened to him and his friend Annie between the time Ben met Richard as a child and the purge - and that’s why he rules the way he does (fertility problems being key). I think he is going to be isolated/bannished from the group, but I think they’re going to need him in the end because something wicked this way comes to the island!
Comment by WisIrish — May 18, 2007 @ 7:52 am
Don’t get me wrong. I am not following Jack or think that he doesn’t have any flaws. I firmly believe however that he saw his way off the island as a way to come back and rescue all of the losties. I think Locke does have good intentions and I do believe he is important to the outcome of the show but he lets his emotions lead him down blind alleys quite often. I like him. I think he has courage, I don’t think too much of some his decisions. He represents the tragic hero, not unlike Hamlet. He is very important to the final outcome of the show. As far as Jack’s leadership. I think he has lead as well as he could. Remember the others have had all the cards up till now. We will see if this changes in season 4.
Comment by AH — May 18, 2007 @ 9:01 am
All im saying is Take away Jack’s Medicial Degree and what is he? What’s left of him? All it takes is a woman to totally mess Jack up, he’s be better off gay. I used to like him back in season 1, and even most of season 2… Anymore he’s really out of my favor. “When the Others come we’ll blow them all to hell”… great idea Jack… I expected more… but then again, sometimes i expect less and less.
Comment by jimyy — May 18, 2007 @ 10:05 am
Also, if their going to “war” then why would u put a doctor with no war experience in charge? I mean, if Jack was a true leader, he would of included Sayid into his plans, since the man is a solider. Matter a fact, he should just put Sayid in charge. would u listen to the Doctor? or the Soldier? who would u rather lead YOU to war? hmmmmmm….
Comment by jimyy — May 18, 2007 @ 10:07 am
Remember at the end of last season, the hoods were going over the heads of sawyer, kate and jack. And, they all looked at each other and nodded? We all thought that it was something important, that there was a plan. Well that turned out to be nothing.
The lesson there is don’t always focus on the minute detail, consider the overall picture. These characters are going in different directions, because they must to progress the story, before they will come back together. Locke will not take up any mantle of leadership until the end of the story, or he may continue on his journey.
Richard’s story is only tangentially connected to the losties. He is a major player there to introduce a new element and possibly conflict to our heroes. But his story will only go so far.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 18, 2007 @ 10:08 am
I agree with you Jimyy, but Jack is an iconic leader to these people. Much like W, he doesn’t have a lick of military leadership experience but for some unexplainable reason, people listen to him. When Sayid told him to step off, he knew Sayid was more qualified to pull the counter attack off than he was. Plus, strategically, Sayid knew this was a great plan, so there was no reason for him to intervene at that time and suggest a better strategic alternative.
At best Jack is an extremely flawed leader, who lacks the desire to be responsible for this situation. However, he is motivated to get off the island. Fortunately, that’s everyone else’s goal too. And as the Doctor, he beat out the Chicken restaurant owner, the box factory worker, the ex-cons, pregnant lady, wedding planner, rock star, people who can’t speak English, and even the genuine Iraqi to lead initially. Not much competition for the likes of Scott and Steve to pick from. Personally, I would’ve chosen Shannon as my leader and volunteered to wash her bikini whenever it needed to be done.
Comment by Higdon — May 18, 2007 @ 10:26 am
If you will remember, Ben said to Locke that he would know he was special if he killed his father..Locke DID NOT kill hid father. he had him killed..
Comment by rexieman — May 18, 2007 @ 10:38 am
“I think we caught Juliet in a lie”
I don’t believe this is where they were. When you saw Charlie swimming to the looking glass, It was like a separate submersed station. Kind of like the rig in the movie THE ABYSS. The place where they held Jack that flooded was under the water attached to the second little island.
Comment by Matthew Torbik — May 18, 2007 @ 10:38 am
I can’t think of a better way for the finale to close than for the supposed closing shot to show the island in an enclosed tank in the backyard of some Dharma facility….the Island being one huge experiment where all the “magic” is man made to see how people interact with one another in a controlled environment. Then again it probably wouldn’t be that great….we will probably see a boat or a helicopter.
Comment by cr — May 18, 2007 @ 11:43 am
In addition to your comments, Locke is the one that understands that to get off of the island you have to discover the island’s secrets. He understood that Ben would not let Jack off of the island.
We are still unsure of the fate of Walt and Michael, but I suspect that they did not make it outside of the island’s influence. Again, Ben is unwilling to let anyone off of the island.
Everything that Jack has done has gotten the losties further from rescue. Even if they succeed in this war against the others, they will be no closer to rescue.
What got Naomi onto the island? It was something Locke did, not Jack. So, while Locke seems to be preventing people from leaving, his actions are ultimately saving them and leading them from the island.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 18, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Who’s to say that there aren’t secret tunnels leading underground to some Dharma lab? I really doubt it and hope that it’s not so. I think the reference to Alice in Wonderland w/the Looking Glass is to misdirect us to think that there is some sort of time portal/blackhole. It would explain alot but since the sub was blown before Cooper got there how would they have taken him from there to the holding cell. Even though he did look wet it could have been just sweat. It really strikes me as odd how all the lives of these people are connected in some way. Almost like the events happened intentionally so that they would all end up together….and maybe realize they are there because of the actions of “other” people…not because of all the poor decisions they made in there lives. Maybe Des took the plane down on purpose….Juliets husband hit by a bus….Jacks father dying in Australia…just think about it. Could it be possible even young Ben and Roger suffered the same fate? An experiment on a massive scale to put all the people together at this point in time? Maybe I’m overthinking it but with this show anything is possible.
Comment by cr — May 18, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
I never looked at it like that, but ur right! Tho, i would say, Locke probably doesn’t really care about anyone getting rescued, i think he believe they “are all here for a reason, for a purpose”. I think he believe their supposed to be there, he’s not thinking about rescue at this point. Don’t u think so?
Comment by jimyy — May 18, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
Yes it is Ben behind Danielle and did you think that maybe they’re walking him like that AFTER Ben says hello and tells Alex to shoot them and then Alex sees Danielle for the first time as her mother and refuses to shoot them? (Just my theory).
But it IS Ben being dragged behind Danielle, I’d bet my life on it.
Comment by Cha Cha — May 18, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
I agree, I don’t necessarily think that he is thinking about rescue.
In my opinion, he is destroying everything that has the appearance of a way off of the island. The submarine doesn’t actually lead off the island, it is a conduit to the Looking Glass. The flame did not communicate to anyone on the outside world. It could only communicate with stations within the island. (i.e. the video with Richard in Miami watching Juliet’s sister was a recording)
Since he is a master games-man, this experience is a riddle to be solved, a game to be won. He is manuevering, much like chess, by taking the opponent’s pieces off of the board.
When he is able to solve the riddle, he will have made it possible to get off of the island.
Again, just my opinion.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 18, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
“But it IS Ben being dragged behind Danielle, I’d bet my life on it.”
If you do, you’ll be jamming with Charlie soon.
Find the second US trailer for the episode and it’s pretty clear that it’s not Ben. In fact, I don’t even think the guy is tied, it just kinda looks like it in the one scene because of the positioning of his hands.
Also, the dude in question is in the same scene as Ben and wearing a different colour shirt.
Comment by Rain — May 18, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
when desmond first came to the island, he was greeted by the hatch guy saying “what did one snowman say to the other?”
desmond did not know the answer.
when locke discovered desmond was back on the island, he approached him with the greeting, “what did one snowman say to the other?” Locke is in communion with the island.
My point is, the others think he is special. He heals spontaneously. He can communicate with Jacob. The others are willing to believe he is special.
They are discontent with Ben, and are open to finding a leader - “The One”.
Some of them seem to believe it is Locke.
Comment by blankslateisland — May 18, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
when desmond first came to the island, he was greeted by the hatch guy saying “what did one snowman say to the other?”
desmond did not know the answer.
when locke discovered desmond was back on the island, he approached him with the greeting, “what did one snowman say to the other?” Locke is in communion with the island.
My point is, the others think he is special. He heals spontaneously. He can communicate with Jacob. The others are willing to believe he is special.
They are discontent with Ben, and are open to finding a leader - “The One”.
Some of them seem to believe it is Locke.
And Jack is flawed, but all the characters are flawed in some way - a drug addict, a torturer, an unlucky lottery winner, a con artist, a hit man, an adultress, a murdering fugitive, a spy…. They’ve almost all killed someone or committed major sins in their past lives. and what leader hasn’t got major flaws now? He’s brave, though, and sacrificed himself for Kate after she slept with Sawyer, and he continues to lead even though it’s lost its appeal for him.
Comment by blankslateisland — May 18, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
But if the tape of Rachael and Jullian that they showed Juliet was recorded, how did they have a Miami newspaper with the date Juliet expected to be current in the shot? Remember, it was Juliet who made the demand for information on them on that specific date.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
My friend Gusteaux, Juliet did not request to see her sister on that day. Ben pulled her aside after the crash and told her to come with him. There was no interaction with Richard, just Ben barking commands to a silent screen. We had no proof that it was even Richard doing the recording. And, if it was a live shot from Miami, it would have been nighttime. I am firmly convinced that all of the footage, even the television feeds, were setup.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 18, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
I think we all have to realize that everything Ben says to anyone at any time is probably untrue. He has consistently lied to everyone, even when it wasn’t necessary. As far as Annie is concerned, my guess is that she and Ben may have been together, or even married, at one point. She probably died in childbirth. That may have been what pushed him over the edge enough to kill his father and the rest of the Dharma people.
Comment by acovell — May 18, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Hummmm…Of course you are right, Mikhial had the crash on the monitors when they entered the Flame…duh! For some reason I was mistakenly thinking the video of Rachael and Jullian was shown to Juliet on the day she told Ben he had cancer. My Bad. As for Ben taking her aside and initating the visit to the Flame…I’m going to watch it again.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
*red-faced*
Tabula, you are 100% correct.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Wow, I had totally overlooked that fact until now. I think you’re *definitely* on to something. Did Ben ever *say* it was live, or give any indication? I can’t remember…
Comment by KrissyLove — May 18, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
I am still a little confused by Richard’s ageless appearance throughout Ben’s life. I am curious to see what happens when Ben and Richard disagree another time, and if Locke has something to do with why Ben’s behaving so sketchy.
-LOST PWNS-
Comment by Gates — May 18, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
Yes, he did. I just rewatched the scene.
Comment by gusteaux — May 18, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
cr - we don’t see cooper until the sub is blown, but ben sent his folks to get ‘the man from tallahassee’ before locke blew the sub up.
Comment by SeenMyLuggage — May 18, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
Regardless of who Ben is making his comment to, he is not saying he’s sorry. He’s attempting to justify his actions, not apologize for them.
Comment by Lance — May 18, 2007 @ 9:42 pm
I have a comment about Dez’s visions. We got to see all of the previous visions of Chuck’s demise, but not in “Greatest Hits”. Any thoughts?
Comment by bh — May 18, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
You’re absolutely right. Well maybe there is an actual portal to other times and places…I can’t decide if that would make the show more interesting. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Comment by cr — May 19, 2007 @ 6:44 am
You’re absolutely right. Well maybe there is an actual portal to other times and places…I can’t decide if that would make the show more interesting. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Comment by cr — May 19, 2007 @ 6:45 am
No one usually reads this stuff so I’ll keep it short.
“God loves you as He loved Jacob”
If you take it at face value, you can infer that either God doesn’t love Jacob anymore, or that Jacob is dead.
Here’s the theory: Jacob used to be the immortal, omnipotent leader of the Other’s. He’s no longer with us. Ben either killed him, or somehow made him “disappear”. The Others think he is dead because that’s what Ben told them. Ben can conveniently commune with Jacob, and has proved this to the Others which gives him an interesting control over his people. But wait, a plane’s just crashed landed on the island. Locke get’s off and he can now walk. Ben end’s up in a wheelchair. Locke begins to commune with the island. Ben starts to lose his ability to commune with the island. Queue the journey to see Jacob. Ben, no longer able to see Jacob, begins his charade. Locke is fed up and begins to leave. Whoopsie! Locke hears Jacob. Ben’s convinced he did. Kablamo! The threat has been neutralized.
Locke will be back. The Others know he’s their leader. They “know” he is special. He’ll depose Ben and he will never leave the island.
Refer to Richard and Ben’s very first conversation on the island. Ben said he saw his Mother. Richard’s body language and response were enough to convince me that Ben would always be viewed with a certain reverance.
Comment by Higdon — May 19, 2007 @ 8:27 am
No one usually reads this stuff so I’ll keep it short.
“God loves you as He loved Jacob”
If you take it at face value, you can infer that either God doesn’t love Jacob anymore, or that Jacob is dead.
Here’s the theory: Jacob used to be the immortal, omnipotent leader of the Other’s. He’s no longer with us. Ben either killed him, or somehow made him “disappear” (Help Me). The Others think he is dead because that’s what Ben told them. Ben can conveniently commune with Jacob (Richard’s body language and response when Ben told him he saw his dead mother on the island was enough to convince me that Ben would always be viewed with a certain reverance), and has proved this to the Others which gives him an interesting control over his people. But wait, a plane’s just crashed landed on the island. Locke get’s off and he can now walk. Ben end’s up in a wheelchair. Locke begins to commune with the island. Ben starts to lose his ability to commune with the island and speak with Jacob. Queue the journey to see Jacob. Ben, no longer able to see Jacob, begins his charade. Locke is fed up and begins to leave. Whoopsie! Locke hears Jacob. Ben’s convinced he did. Kablamo! The threat has been neutralized.
Locke will be back. The Others know he’s their leader. They “know” he is special. He’ll depose Ben and he will never leave the island.
Comment by Higdon — May 19, 2007 @ 8:31 am
Higdon, people actually do read this stuff. Not sure that there is anything that can be read into the past tense of the quote. Since it is a quote, it is simply retaining the tense of the original source. I just don’t think we can make any substational conclusions about Jacob using the tense of the quote.
This is not an attempt to minimalize your view, but to just add another to the discussion. You could very well be on to something.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 19, 2007 @ 9:11 am
Alpert is Ben’s personal Iago, showing just enough loyalty and sharing just enough information with him to watch him destroy himself and see Locke become the new leader. Kinda like the historical Cardinals of the Catholic church and French kings, the power (this case Alpert) is behind the throne (i.e. Ben), and he’s deemed it time for a change. Don’t expect him to be any more loyal to Locke.
Comment by Bjohn18x — May 19, 2007 @ 11:11 am
You’re one of a few who makes the attempt. I put that disclaimer up there to try and get a few others to take a gander.
“God loves you as he loves Jacob.”
“God loves you as he loved Jacob.”
The tense means everything and you know it. Yeah, we don’t have any “evidence” that allows for a substantial conclusion, but I took what was given and developed my theory from that. Sounds a little better than Island manifestation, crazy Ben, or imaginary friend. The dynamics of the Island allowed for Desmond to exist in another reality. Why can’t Ben have turned Jacob into a little inter-dimensional static? Why don’t you give me your take on this or why/who/what Jacob is?
Comment by Higdon — May 19, 2007 @ 11:12 am
That would be a great plot for a Mitchell Bros. film — look it up. But I seriously doubt the show will be going for the S&M, soft porn market this week.
Comment by Bjohn18xss — May 19, 2007 @ 11:18 am
everything i did, i did for the island. maybe ben controls the security system aka: Smokie!
Comment by thenumbersarebad — May 19, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
I originally thought that Jacob was Locke. But the eyes are wrong.
Here is the framework. I thought that Jacob was a prophecy to be fulfilled. So, when Ben talked about Jacob, he was talking about his faith in him. Jacob’s list would have been a prophetic writing.
That theory is not necessarily off the table, but the introduction of Jacob in “The Man Behind the Curtain” gives a few complications. It is now evident that Jacob is being held prisoner, either by time, space, Ben, or someone else. Ben is the only one that can talk to him, so his word carries Jacob’s authority.
That gives Ben an unquestioned authority and absolute power on the island. A power that he has obviously abused. Now that many are on to his deception, the others are looking to Locke for hope, the other one that can hear Jacob.
There is a double meanings to Locke’s name: The philosopher that believed that we all enter this world as a blank slate ready to be written upon; The metaphor that he is the Lock to the secrets of Lost. When he discovers the comnination to un-lock his potention or power, then everyone may be able to be freed from the island.
Back to Jacob… I think that Locke will have significance to the identity of Jacob, but so will everyone else on the island.
Another thing to add, there is a greater villian at play here. I am not sure if it is Dharma, the Others, or Jacob himself.
I would like to still hold to my first theory, but it is breaking down. I need to get some opinions on the following questions to reformulate a theory about Jacob.
Who are what imprisoned Jacob?
Is Jacob the villian?
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 19, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Prior to the Jacob “reveal” in “The Man Behind the Curtain”, I too was convinced that Locke was, or would become, Jacob. I still cing to about a 10% possibility that Locke may still somehow be “HIM.” But it is time to explore other possibilities.
While I don’t have a new fleshed out theory, I do have some random thoughts I’d like to share, hoping that you, or someone else can use or expand on them.
Obviously someone among the Hostiles was able to communicate in some manner with Jacob prior to the Purge and Ben’s joining them. Now, only Ben is able to do so. In fact, if Ben is to be believed–which seems to always be a bad idea–no one else has ever seen Jacob. If this is true, it can only relate to post-Purge. Who was able to see/hear Jacob pre-Purge and why did that communication end and shift only to Ben?
My thoughts on Jacobs current condition:
Prior to being “trapped” by Ben’s circle of containment, Jacob had full reign of the island. We all acknowledge that the island has a variety of “special” properties. Perhaps there is a center of these properties on the island. Let’s call that place the Nexus. Perhaps it was necessary for Jacob to vist this Nexus occassionally to “recharge” his powers or at least his ability to manifest himself to the Hostiles. This theory would point to Jacob being more a spirit being than a flesh and blood human. When Ben “trapped” Jacob, HE was cut off from the Nexus and his abilities have been fading away. As HIS powers have weakened, Ben has become more and more bold in the pursuit of his own private agenda…to find a way for women to conceive, carry to term and live through giving birth on the island. This probably somehow relates to Annie and/or “bringing back” his mother.
In short, Jacob is dying. HIS, “help me”, was a plea to Locke to release him before he “fades away” completely or “dies.”
Another partial theory is that Jacob’s decline began prior to HIS being entrapped by Ben. This would explain why Richard’s interest in Ben spiked when Ben told him that he could see and hear his dead mother. Richard arranged a meeting between Jacob and Ben to see if Ben could see/hear Jacob. Ben somehow gained Jacob’s trust and lured him into the “trap.” Ben then informed Richard and the other Hostiles that he (Ben) alone would communicate with Jacob from that time forward and that their only link to Jacob would now be through him. This could be how Ben took control of the Hostiles and became their “leader.” *Guess you could call this a true Hostile Takeover.*
One last partial theory:
The “Nexus”, as I described it earlier, is the junction of the time/space continuim. The place where all timelines intersect. Jacob, Mrs. Hawking, Brother Campbell, Richard and the other original hostiles are spirit guardians of the Nexus…Jacob being the leader or god-figure, the others being his “angels”. The angels, have the ability to move between timelines, initiate “course corrections”, etc. But only Jacob possesses the ability to take full advantages of the “powers” bestowed by the island. It is the job of the others to do Jacob’s bidding and to prevent the destruction of all time and space by keeping all the various timelines in sync with the original timeline. It is very unlikely that the “original timeline” included Ben cutting Jacob off from the Nexus. Thus, John Locke is needed to: 1)institute an on island course correction; 2) free Jacob; 3) replace Ben; and, possibly 4) replace Jacob.
Please feel free to take these random thoughts and run with them.
Comment by gusteaux — May 20, 2007 @ 7:52 am
Lost is like the best show ever because it’s sooooooo mysterious!!!! I LOVE IT!!!! Jacob really freaked me out i didn’t even notice that picture of him in the real episode!!!! But i love it!! Also i don’t want Locke to die i like him! and kate and jack i am soooooooo excited!;-)
Comment by Kelsey — May 21, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
Well, Lost has certainly run the gamut of all the major religions, with references to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism especially in spades, but now we veer into the realm of Shamanism, undergoing a major renewal in Mongolia and the Americas.
The trickster, con artist hoax theme which is so predominant in Lost is one of the mainstays of this belief system. I swear, we are about to have an episode called Coyote anytime now.
So, Ben’s childhood trauma has left him with a second personality he does not recognize as his own and that he can slip into to really freak people out. Plus, like many traumatized kids, he has developed some interesting psychokinetic ability. Add that to some special effects and you have the “shaking tent”, a classic trick in shamanic cultures.
Well done, it can be so powerful it nearly converted dour Church of Scotland member and noted explorer Alexander McKenzie to the vision quest fold. However, David Thompson, another explorer, was cursed by an Anishnabe shaman for having figured out how the string rigging that was used to shake the tent worked. Smart enough to get the trick, not smart enough to keep his mouth shut, he got into loads of trouble after that. I guess some of the shaman’s mojo really worked.
I just had to laugh when I saw Ben shift personalities and start poltergeisting away in the hut. I can understand that people fall for the act. Hey, it’s dark out, they’re in the middle of nowhere, things are flying around the room and some creepy guy acts like he’s completely bonkers.
Ok, Ok, Jacob lives and he’s being victimized by Ben. You got me convinced. Unfortunately for Locke, he’s off the gullibility market and doesn’t care who knows it. Ben’s ego sure can’t handle that, ’cause that same bag of tricks raised him up from the bottom of the food chain to the throne of unquestioned authority he so enjoys. Going back to being a nobody ain’t an option for our friend Ben. Sort of like David Koresh asking if you want fries with that. Not a possibility, he’d rather die and take all of his crew with him than to lose his creds with them.
Comment by Odette — August 7, 2007 @ 9:59 pm