Lost - The Dharma Factor
So now we know how the purge came about, or at least we have a good idea. However, what we do not know is why was Dharma’s supplier still dropping in palettes of supplies? Should we just accept that there was no off island element to Dharma, and that the supplies are dropped from a contractor paid for by a bottomless pit fund? Is Dharma functioning in agreement with the change of pecking order on the island, eyeing wholesale murder as an acceptable exchange for the advancement of their cause? Assuming that there is an off island arm of the Dharma initiative, how have Ben and his people kept up the rouse that Dharma is still in operation? Check out my crazy theory below.
First, let us get our mythos straight. If smoky is the Cerberus on the blast door map, then Cerberus could be a creation of Dharma. This is evidenced by the following info on the map:
“Caduceus station believed to have been abandoned due to AH/MDG incident of 1985. Or, possible catastrophic malfunction of Cerberus system.”
“Cerberus System” could refer to the fence, but could possibly reflect that Cerberus was an experiment designed by Dharma scientists. Its purpose? I say Holography.
What if the Cerberus experiment was designed to create three-dimensional beings, and the island’s ‘genie on autopilot’ somehow used Island magic to infuse consciousness into that system. Why would Dharma be interested in creating life like holographs? For the same reason the island infused consciousness of those holographs would go on to image itself the judge of all that is good in the world: to create visions of popular religious icons. Think that is a reach? Keep reading… I get weirder…
We know that Dharma was trying to create a society, as well as make advancements in science and research. None of this explains why a ‘mathematician’ was working in a supply depot called ‘The Arrow!’ What if the ideals of the Dharma initiative ran a few clicks below the rational level of hippy idealism; say… more in the direction of Hitler-youth like idealism. What if Dharma’s plan to address the ‘post modern condition’ was to obliterate societies outside of the Dharma Island? Could the “Arrow” mean “missile?” In that case, a mathematician would be quite at home plotting trajectories and designing guidance systems.
Perhaps Cerberus was being utilized to create lifelike embodiments of cultural religious icons. In a world recently ravaged by The Arrow’s assault of weaponry, your own personal Jesus or Buddha, complete with ‘smoke’ and mirrors miracles, could come in pretty handy in your attempt to convert what remains of the world to the Dharma doctrine.
Once the island magic channeled the perception of the inventors, making the holographs self-conscious beings, they took on the simplistic values of judging good and bad as absolutes, the impressions of the Dharma engineers who were creating them, complete with amorphous spiritual forms.
Now, the goal wasn’t necessarily to solve the smoke monster riddle, but there you have at least one theory. The other side is, what if the technology used to create these life like images, besides being absorbed by the island for its own agenda, is currently being used at some undisclosed location to give the appearance that Dharma is still in control?
FIRST!…i think
great theory, its plausible too which is more than I can say for most other theories.
Comment by doug — May 14, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
I wonder if Others/Hostiles work outside of the island as well. We saw Richard and Ethan off the island before, posing as Dharma or Mittelos, but we can assume that, after seeing Richard in Ben’s flashback, that they are just Hostiles/Natives/Others. This makes me wonder if the Others research has anything to do with Dharma’s research. I also wonder if Widmore, Hanso, or even Paik are funding them.
Comment by thenumbersarebad — May 14, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
If we base so much on the blast door map, Kelvin and Radzinsky must have known alot about everything going on on the island. So I hope Kelvin didn’t really die, so Sayid can torture him for answers! Just kidding. If Kelvin worked on the map so much, I would expect Desmond knows more about the island and Others than he acts like he does. He did refer to the Others as “the Hostiles” on Live Together, Die Alone. Kelvin also refered to the Hostiles, so was Kelvin actually Dharma and not a recruit of Ben?
Comment by thenumbersarebad — May 14, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
I always visit this site. and I must say this is one the best theories on the smoke monster I have ever heard.. and i must say, after reading it.. i think its awesome.
Thanks for giving me something else to think about all day long!!
Krypt.
Comment by Kryptic316 — May 14, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Comment by belzar — May 14, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
Isn’t it reasonable to think that the Others are just posing as DHARMA people to continue to get supplies and funding? I mean - that would explain what Mikhail was doing in the Flame and why he was wearing a Dharma jumpsuit. He’s just hanging out and keeping in contact with Dharma.
Also, because Kelvin & co. were still pushing the button in the Swan, Dharma assumed everything’s A-OK. Now that both the Flame and the Swan are destroyed, Dharma may become suspicious and send people there to find out wtf is going on.
Comment by Chris — May 14, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Which reminds me chris…
Comment by Jared Katz — May 14, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
First of all, beyond awesome theory DocArzt, as crazy as it may sound. They said we would have to wait till the series finale to find out what the smoke monster is, so its pretty safe to say its going to be something crazy.
About the whole dharma food drop thing, I think when ben and the hostiles took over they kept the swan and flame running to keep the dharma people back home believing all is well and so they could still recieve supplys and outside info, and also sending some of there people back to the states to pose as dharma and scout out “new blood” and to further keep everything under control. like alpert with juliette. The Swan was left running to keep the electromagnet under control, and they could still hire dharma people, or whoever for this, since there stuck in the ground anyways! because dharma probly has stations set up to detect island activity (arctic dudes?) and an electormagnetic pulse, would not be wanted. They got old patchy to take care of the flame, to recieve information and keep in contact with there people back home and dharma, so they can keep letting them thinking dharmas still in control. Thats why the computer was still asking locke if there was a problem with the hostiles, and if dharma already knew that the hostiles have taken over, they would have already came to the island to check things out, and most likly kill all the hostiles once they have seen what they’ve done. Since the 815ers have landed theyve only fucked things up for the others, blowing up the hatch, and the flame, and apparently (apparently!) the sub, there “only way off the island”……. apparently. So now with all the purple sky buisness, and the transmission going down, dharmas goin wtf is going on over there, abd coming to check things out. Thats where naomi comes in. remember she said “theres more of us” not thank you! and thats why mikail came frantically running to the camp yelling for ben about naomi. BUSTED!
Comment by Jess — May 14, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
thats what i think to!
Comment by Jess — May 14, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
god dammit i cant spell. sorry bout that guys
Comment by jess — May 14, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
I like the theory about Cerberus, maybe the incident involved smokey going haywire and blowing up the arrow station.
I think maybe penny/naomi are working for Dharma and they are coming with forces back to the island.
Comment by 1miletogo — May 14, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
im tempted to say that smokey are cerebrus are seperate…but mostly on the grounds that you would think that three ’somethings’ would play a part in a system named Cerebrus…however, i grant that is somewhat unimaginative; i think that an obvious characteristic which has something to do with the number 3 is almost a scifi/fantasy prerequisite for anything dubbed “Cerebrus”, BUT, lost is notable and has kept my interest where almost nothing else has precisely because it has not yet fallen prey to m/any such “traps” of logic or standard/accepted practice…
here’s something that i think at the moment:
i think that smokey is richard is something akin to the devil, and wants to do away with jacob, who is perhaps an anti-smokey; the catch? richard cant see, hear, or interact with jacob, and so begins a long cycle of manipulation.
..there isnt a whole lot of proof for this, and as ive said before, theres a good chance that all the original hostiles are “ageless”, and richard’s enduring youth is a red herring to throw us off the trail….and also, i think Doc’s theory is fairly sound, except that i dont buy the bit about the arrow…unless TLE was meant to be hinting at Dharma’s real agendy through a process of…well…an unusual allegory…with an alternate reality haso foundation lol…which i dont entirely buy….id still like to know how TLE bits will play out…
..anyway, back to my point: i dont buy the stations as being named so…straightforwardly. The Swan and The Pearl would seem to have little to do with their intended functions, afterall ..speaking of the stations, has anybody idea about patchy’s glass eye yet?
…the notion of smokey as machine comes dangerously close to what we know him NOT to be, which is a cloud of nanomachines gone hatstand…as in that book, “prey”. My guess is that smokey is part of some sort of yin-yang dual force particular to the island, and i am also partial to the idea that a rise in smokey-ness may be connected to a certain hole in the ground where the hatch (and desmond’s clothing) once was…because the personal jesus thing just doesnt ring true…doesnt have the right ring to it for me
Comment by mw — May 14, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
That’s what I was thinking…as far as the Flame and Swan are concerned. That is also why when Ben showed Juliette the ‘live’ shot of her sister and child, only Patchy could bring up the link.
Comment by pete — May 14, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
oh, and whats with 1985!?! my guess is that we’ll find out about the same time we find out what happened to ben’s childhood friend…the blonde girl whose name escapes me.
Comment by mw — May 14, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
Hi all… just FYI… in this week’s podcast, Darlton confirmed that not every Dharma-ian was killed in the purge - there were Dharma people other than Ben that were spared. The comment was made very obviously and without any question that that was they said. But they didn’t say how many Dharma originals were allowed to live, nor why. Seems to me that with a few Dharma guys still around, they would be able to keep up the ruse indefinitely… as long as they continued to produce whatever results the Dharma-ians were working towards.
Comment by LostMyMarbles — May 14, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
oh! and finally for tonight: i reckon that if the hostiles/others knew that dharma was en-route, they would be fairly bricking it..or at least looking a little more nervous…but then again, it is possible afterall. dharma coming back is one i just cant decide on.
…i know who’s on the ship
…its CRAB PEOPLE.
Comment by mw — May 14, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Is this show starting to resemble an episode of “Scooby-Doo”? Maybe the Others think our heroes are just meddling teenagers, complete with a mysterious dog. The pop culture connections are too obvious. We’ve got the “Scooby-Doo” scenario playing out on a deserted island. Now consider this…what group of preternaturally athletic people appeared on both Scooby-Doo and a show that featured a group of castaways on a deserted island? That’s right…The Others are THE HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS! Furthermore, if you squinted during the JACOB scene, I swear you could see Curly Neal crossing over a white guy in the background.
On a serious note, Mikhail seemed to be permanently camped out at the Flame. In a DHARMA jumpsuit nonetheless. Probably for when Alvar called looking for Horace. Mikhail functioned as their communications officer, but also knew what to do with the Flame if anyone stopped taking the Kool Aid and tried to call for help. That’s Kablammo. Room 23 showed us that they obviously had to adjust a few attitudes on the island. Using this info it’s safe to assume that DHARMA thinks all is well on the island.
We saw young Ben show up initially on the island on the submarine. That appears to be the same submarine we saw Locke blow up. If they thought something was goofy, they wouldn’t let that thing come and go and be used by the Mittelos coporation.
But what about the Swan and Kelvin? The blast door tells of “incidents” and Kelvin referenced the Hostiles. If the Swan was so potentially world-ending why no direct communication with anyone that mattered? The Pearl stated the Swan was an experiment. And maybe that’s all it was. But we are set on an island with a “box” on it. This “box” can set in motion your wildest subconcious desires. It made Locke’s Dad appear, so we know he communes with the island. Maybe he subconciously wanted the button to matter, so the island made it matter for him. This would explain the puzzling purple sky. No one in the know knew that would happen, because it couldn’t have happened until Locke wanted it to happen.
Comment by Higdon — May 14, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
“the rational level of hippy idealism”
Never thought I’d hear that phrase…
Comment by Ben — May 14, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
Sorry, me again… it’s at about 13:50 into the podcast, and Carlton says, “They took some members of the Dharma initiative and inculcated them into the others… it was referred to…at the end…”
I’ve gotta say, I didn’t catch it, but if Carlton says it’s there, well I believe him.
I hope this wasn’t an unintended spoiler thrown out to those of you who are like me and don’t like to be surprised by them… I thought that since it’s supposedly already been said (by Ben… I reference the podcast again) in the show, it would be ok.
Comment by LostMyMarbles — May 14, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
I like it. I’m unconvinced by “the arrow”, but the holography idea is very seductive.
I’m just loving the show at the moment, and if you’ll bear with my analogy; Lost is like a ball of string. At first you just get to see all the surface of the ball, and although there are many fascinating twists and turns in the surface it only makes you more curious to see how the insides work. Then, as the ball starts to unravel you start to see how the surface fit together, but also uncover unexpected patterns and things you have never seen before. It’s ok though, because you know what you’ll be left with is a straight piece of string that you can see every part of, but still made up that fascinating ball.
Comment by Moore — May 14, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
I think Dharma knows of the purge. My theory is that Naomi is Dharma and they are coming back to take the island.
Comment by RazzleDazzle — May 14, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
I have no clue what the Smoke Monster is, and won’t presume to speculate. Juliet said they didn’t know what it was; but then again, she may have been lying.
I think it’s a sensible theory that the Others (consisting of “Hostiles” and a few non-purged Dharma folks) are pretending to Dharma’s outside financial backers that Dharma is still functioning, carrying out its mission, etc. That is evidenced by the fact that the Others and the Swan hatch have regular Dharma food-drops. When the Swan hatch and the Flame station were destroyed, I think it’s possible they sent somebody (i.e., Naomi) to check up on Dharma. I don’t think the Others could have knowledge that anybody was coming because the “purple haze” cut off contact with the outside world, and the destruction of the Flame Station only ensured that there would be no further communication.
Comment by Airk — May 14, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
Fuck the finale - here’s your goddamn snake in the mailbox since ABC can’t lock this sit down:
Jack is a murderer. He strangled his ex wife, he killed her new boyfriend, and he killed his father in Australia. All of this comes to light after he kills the members of Naomi’s team who come ashore to rescue them then joins ben and says fuck y’all. If you don’t think this is true you are an idiot! Pass it on everywhere. Be the first! Amaze your friends! Fuck LOST!
Comment by fuckthefinale — May 14, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
and there is a control room for smoky where you can watch the information it downloads from peoples minds. GAY
Comment by fuckthefinale — May 14, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
This is shockingly plausible.
Comment by Moore — May 14, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
Which just goes to show that pretty much anything is.
Comment by Moore — May 14, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
DocArzt, first of all: it seems that you realy take your time thinking everything over and giving plausible theories.You realy want to get to the very bone of it all and it’s fun reading everyone’s thoughts and mindtwists…tryin’ to solve the mysterie.
It seems to be clear that the smoke monster has abilities to look into the soul.Why did it kill Ecko and why didn’t it kill locke?It judges you i think by looking you in the eye.To me it’s clear, that it kills with a reason, not random killings.So ,why is it that some have to die and some get to live…what’s the connection?
Is smokey realy dharma made, or just an original part of the island?
I don’t think Desmond knows more about the island than he already told: he got there somehow racing around the world, got shipwrecked, woke up in the hatch and pushed the damn button.He only knows what Kelvin wanted him to know.
I think there were still fooddroppings because the button was still pushed: as far as dharma knew, Kelvin and Radzinsky were still in the hatch, “saving the world”.
That’s why the fooddropping was not that far away from the hatch: Dharma knew there were still men at work.
Maybe the Cerberus system is indeed the fence and the malfunction refers to the fact that the hostiles were able to get through it and kill every one of the Dharma population on the island.
I say Ben turned it off like he did before and let the hostiles in.
I think Ben is in controle of the off island arm of Dharma (or what used to be dharma )
and doing the research HE wants with the people HE has chosen himself.
He manipulated Locke for not pushing the button anymore, for blowing up the submarine,…. to lock the island off from the rest of the world.He doesn’t want anyone to leave.why??
Look how surprised he was Naomi was still able to get on the island.
I think he also ordered to stage the plane on the bottom of the ocean ,not wanting anyone to search anyfurther for survivors.
A key question is: howcome this island is so special:Why is it so important that there had to be research at so much different aspects.Where does the island’s powers come from?
If we know something more about this aspect, i think we are getting somewhere.
I could be very wrong …. any comments my friends?
grtz
Comment by Tyson — May 14, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
It IS the end. Return in 9 days and thank me for spoiling it for you fuck-o. It’s a total ripoff.
Comment by fuckthefinale — May 14, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
Am I right in thinking that Smokey did try to kill Locke in season 1? I think the important thing is that Eko stood face-to-face with smokey on one occasion and survived, but was later torn to pieces. What changed? What changed was his repentance. When Eko was repentant and trying to live a good life to attone for his past life Smokey didn’t touch him. After his encounter with “Smokey as brother”(?) when he refused to apologise for his past actions he was smashed to bits.
Comment by Moore — May 14, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
its a pretty good theory but didnt they say that cerberus was a security system? why would they use holographs to gaurd their territory….. plus holographs cant touch things like smokey does. Also if smokey is in fact cerberus system could that hint at what it is? Cerberus the 3 headed dog gaurding the underworld for souls that enter and try to leave? Hades pet.. maybe smokey is jacobs pet but i highly doubt it. Currently im thinking smokey has no connection to Dharma, i think his really old on this island. I think cerberus is the fence.. or maybe something yet to come
Comment by ledio — May 14, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
its a pretty good theory but didnt they say that cerberus was a security system? why would they use holographs to gaurd their territory….. plus holographs cant touch things like smokey does. Also if smokey is in fact cerberus system could that hint at what it is? Cerberus the 3 headed dog gaurding the underworld for souls that enter and try to leave? Hades pet.. maybe smokey is jacobs pet but i highly doubt it. Currently im thinking smokey has no connection to Dharma, i think his really old on this island. I think cerberus is the fence.. or maybe something yet to come
Comment by ledio — May 14, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
I believe that the Dharma Initiative (which was funded by Widmore and Paik) has continued under the auspices of the Others (who are still funded by Widmore and Paik). What evidence do I have for this theory? If you watch Richard emerge from the jungle after the Purge, he is wearing a very expensive watch — the same watch that Paik sent Jin to Los Angeles to give to a contact there. Paik (and by extension Widmore) were funding both sides in the Purge (a la Iran-Iraq); they continue to fund the Others today.
Comment by GoodOneSawyer — May 14, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Awesome theory. DocArzt
I think its definately possible that dharma has sent someone else (ie. Naomi) to the island to check up on everything after the sky turned purple. I’m assuming that, if she turns out to be Dharma, does that mean Penelope is also working for Dharma or is she just using her father’s leverage for finding the island?
Also, about Radzinsky and Kelvin, I think they were possibly recruited by Ben after the purge. My reason is because Kelvin asked Desmond if he was “him”. (Which we now assume is Jacob).
What I’m wondering is: how could Marvin Candle talk about the incident in the Orientation video for the Swan if the food drops were still being dropped (assuming that Dharma knew that it was currently being manned before the sky turned purple and the flame exploded)? Wasn’t the swan started before the incident occurred? Wouldn’t that mean that they had an original Orientation video without the added “incident” talk?
LoL. I probably just talked myself into a circle right now.
Comment by trahald10 — May 14, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
If Jack murdered his ex-wife, why would he ask Juliet how she was and if she was happy? In the season 3 premier, he asked Juliet if she was happy, and Juliet told him that she was well and very happy.
Comment by Tukachen — May 14, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
I think it’s highly plausible that Naomi is Dharma, coming back to survey everything before they arrive in force. The Widmore Corporation was shown in the TLE as being connected with Hanso, and therefore (theoretically) with Dharma. So Penny could easily be using her Widmore name to delve into Dharma. She may have found this Dharma project (defunct on their side or not) and thought that somehow, maybe, possibly Des had crashed there. So she hired the Arctic dudes to look for the Island, knowing the area, but knowing they couldn’t physically see it.
But then the key turn happened, purple sky, Dharma was alerted that something had changed in a major way. They send a scout team to check everything out. Naomi did use the word ‘us’ when she was delirious, talking about the ‘helicopter’ crash. Naomi will try to communicate the situation to Dharma so they can take the next step (Have fun explaining it all, gonna take all of us six bloody years lol)
As for the Smokey/Dharma connection, I just don’t buy it. I agree with MW that Smokey is probably a yin/yang type of phenomena, as Locke described a brilliant white light, and we’ve seen the dark smokey depths all over the place. This brought to mind the white light snapping off of Juliet when her and Kate were in the jungle together. Could be totally unrelated, but that’s the only other time I can recall where Smokey has been anything but Smokey.
I think in Season 4, when they go into the REAL history of the Island, with the major setting being THE RUINS, which I am so pumped about, we’ll find out that Smokey has been around forever on the Island, predating the Black Rock survivors, Hostiles, Dharma, everyone.
I think we broke the reality expectation barrier for good with Jacob last week, so Smokey could just be a mystical force, judging those on the Island for as long as its existence. I don’t know if we need any more than that to be honest, at least I don’t. If they try to rationalize and define Smokey, I think it’ll just take away from the mystery and mystique of the whole idea.
Comment by Revolution — May 14, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
It’s possible Jack is a murderer, etc. but I can’t imagine a lamer finale. I would be upset if the “big reveal” at the end of the season was that Jack killed his ex-wife in a jealous rage.
Comment by Airk — May 14, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
I think you are partially right about Kelvin and Radzinsky. Radzinky worked for Dharma and Kelvin works for the others. Radzinsky’s brains splattered on the ceiling of the swan could be from the hands of Kelvin. Kelvin could have been sent to the swan to keep up appearnaces just as patchy did at the flame. Concerning the films I have found it puzzling that the orientation films for the swan were 8mm (from the 70’s) and the orientation films for the pearl and flame were VHS (from the 80’s) hmmmmmmmmmmm…………..
Comment by osupokie — May 14, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Osupokie,
I agree with your last point, I took particular note of that as well. The Swan Orientation was on 16mm film, the dominant production medium of the early ’70’s and the Pearl Orientation was on videotape. But it wasn’t on VHS, it was on a 3/4 cassette tape, the dominant production format by the MID ’70’s. I point this out not to correct you, but to note that the time difference between the technology used to produce the two Orientation messages was about half what you thought it was.
Comment by gusteaux — May 14, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
I don’t think that Jack killed his ex-wife, unless he was trying to determine how much Juliet really knew, but it makes sense that he could be a murderer, and in the grand themes of Lost, he would still be a good guy. (because aren’t most of our favorite characters murderers?) But if that is all that the hyped finale amounts to, I would be extremely disappointed.
Comment by 80sKatie — May 14, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
Oh, and I was just looking at the myspace for this site, and someone had mentioned the Widmore had sponsored Henry Gale’s balloon. Coincidence? I think not.
Comment by 80sKatie — May 14, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
I think I have a plausible answer to this. VHS tapes are magnetically encoded. 8mm reels are not. The Swan was near an electromagnetic anomoly which easily could have demagnitized VHS tapes or audio tapes. Hence 8mm reels and records were used. This could explain the mix of older and newer technology in the Swan. Of course, there are other things that could totally disprove this idea.
Comment by C — May 14, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
We don’t know if smokey tried to kill Locke. All we know is that it tried to drag him underground to some undisclosed location. My take on ol’smokey is that it is the eyes of JACOB. It scans our island inhabitants, and shows what information it gathers tho JACOB. He makes the decision on if it hunts and kills a supposed threat to him, or the island.
Comment by Stev — May 14, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
The mythological cerberus also guarded the gates of hell-so the meltdown the map referred to could have been a malfunction of the system (cerberus) controlling smoky, thus releasing him to wreak havoc on the island.
Comment by sara — May 14, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
No Jack’s not a murderer. His Thai girlfriend saw a selfless leader etc.
My guess now for Jack is that he met Penny at the stadium, made a deal for a cure for Sarah, coz after the stadium he goes back to the hospital and a miracle has occurred.
Comment by GeeWizz — May 14, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
While DocArzt sleeps all hell is breaking loose in Lost Rumourland, as complete spoilers for the remaining two episodes have been posted. I read them - don’t make the same mistake. Stop reading Lost websites NOW!
Comment by Bob — May 15, 2007 @ 1:07 am
i have a theory - but i’ll only post it once i have time to register. you might find it… believable.
i’ll say this much.
if richard, ethan or anyone else was born on the island, why do they act so naturally in the ‘outside’ world? driving gmc’s and all.
Comment by rob — May 15, 2007 @ 4:56 am
waghhh i really do waste my time posting such long theories i reckon.
this time a shorter one:
Naiomi being Dharma seems far too obvious
also, 2 questions:
does anybody else think that smokey and the hatch may somehow have been linked?
was the lost experience canon, non-canon, or semi-canon?
Comment by mw — May 15, 2007 @ 5:26 am
I like the theory, but I think the answer with Dharma and the food drops is much simpler, and doesn’t require much of a theory.
Looking at Ben’s age at the time of the purge, I’d guess that event happened around 1985-1990 (meaning, interestingly, that the purge happened around the same time Danielle arrived and Alex was taken from her). If the hostiles were unable to capture the Swan station, it would have remained in Dharma’s hands, staffed by the few remaining island researchers. Kelvin helps back up this theory, since he said he worked for Dharma, and that was just a couple years before the plane crashed. Assuming he wasn’t being misled, Dharma probably kept the Swan operating for 15-20 years after the purge because it was important to prevent another ‘incident’ (an event that happened long before the purge).
Comment by Ed Holden — May 15, 2007 @ 5:53 am
The “spoilers” are bogus as they contradict several things already in the series. They reek of someone reading the AICN clues about the finale and slapping them on the framework of a vaguely interesting idea.
Comment by Trent — May 15, 2007 @ 6:08 am
Does beg us to consider that an arms dealer was integral to the founding of Dharma…
But I still stick to my personal theory that the Others strategically attacked Dharma with weapons designed to kill people without destroying equipment, then stealthily took their place. Part of their plan was to bribe/gain the allegiance of Dharma’s communications personnel (Mikhail). This way the rations would keep coming and the outside world wouldn’t know any difference.
Comment by Herr Terror — May 15, 2007 @ 6:16 am
Thank you. It is obvious that Ben was lying about ALL the DARMAs being killed.
Matter of fact I never beleive what Ben says. He is a living version of the Monkey’s Paw. For the reference, if you wish for something you get it but not like you think. For example you wish to be the richest person on earth, so the paw kills all the other people, hence you are the richest person on earth. Eveytime Ben promises something it comes true but in a very Catch 22 way.
I’ll bet that Mikal is an original Darma guy.
Also one more thing not mentioned to date is technology. The swan had new washer drayers. The flame had some very new electronics/computers. Yet the off island bear cage place was run down and had very old technology, same for the pearl and the hospital place. The sonogram looked exactly like the one used for my first born and he is over 21 now. What does this say about Darma resupplying the island?
One more thing, why was Richard on the mainland and why did he go back? Were the other guys with Richard hostiles also?
Oh well guess we just have to wait.
Comment by dug — May 15, 2007 @ 6:27 am
There IS A CRAZY thread at DARK UFO which is either going to totally spoil the last two episodes or is a giant foiler but either way its totally nuts!!!! WHAT THERE SAYING IS HUGE!!
Comment by DMS — May 15, 2007 @ 6:34 am
I think the answer to why the drops continue(d) is much simpler: Baukunin was manning the comm center (the Flame, right?) and was working with the Hostiles to maintain the illusion that Dharma was still in control. When the comm stopped working (purple sky event) or when Locke blew it up (Enter 77), Dharma’s off-island contigent/backers were alerted. The food drops won’t continue — instead they will be dropping in “reinforcements.” Naomi and whoever she was with (”I am not alone”) were manning the scout ‘copter.
Comment by vernicus — May 15, 2007 @ 6:38 am
I was just going to ask about Richard as well. Richard working of the island, recruiting people, taking video footage … would a hostile do all that? I mean before Dharma they were island “natives” or at least island locked correct? Now they are flying all over the globe?
How does that happen unless a deal was made with Dharma.
Comment by zepperdude — May 15, 2007 @ 7:09 am
My personal opinion is that Smokey is just a part of the island - not Dharma or the Others - it is just a package deal when you are on that island…
Comment by Lost In Florida — May 15, 2007 @ 7:32 am
I have always thought that Juliette was infiltrating the island, as a ’spy’ for what is left off-island of Dharma. Remember, she was doing some very very shady dark experiments before she met up with Richard.
It was never explored what was meant by juliette’s “creating life where there was none”- what does that mean? What did she impregnate her sister with? Whose sperm? Was it sperm or something else..?
Remember also, even Richard asked her why she would agree to join them under such crazy terms and she never answered but just drank the drugs…
Also, remember that Jack has the tatoo that says something to the effect of that he walks among them but is NOT one of them, so there may be more to Jack also, especially since he woke up inside the jungle at the beginning…
People have said that naomi may be Dharma, but then why would she have the picture of Desmond and Penny? Did Dharma somehow intercept Penny’s people in order to get onto the island?
The biggest question is how Richard and others are coming and going to the island. It seems that some people never leave, but that Richard and Ethan do- maybe Jacob because he supposedly ‘cured’ juliette’s sister(though that is still very fishy and I dont think that juliette even believes that).
Also, I think that the black powder around Jacob’s cabin can be activated into that black cloud “monster”, under certain conditions, and that Jacob was a hologram as were other apparitions seen on island.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 15, 2007 @ 7:45 am
Lostpedia pins Kelvins arrival on the island around 1991 at the earliest, some think the purge happened around 93, and I thought it was stated that Ben didn’t know about the Swan, (what it was for).
It’s possible Kelvin and Radzinsky stayed there out of a sense of duty. May also be why Radzinsky was editing the film, to screw with the hostiles if they got control of the station. And why Kelvin always wore the hazmat suit, so he didn’t get gassed.
And why he basically kidnapped Desmond in the first place. He said he wanted Desmond to take over for him so he could escape in the boat when Desmond confronted him. I’d think after ten years of pushing the button with no replacement in sight, I’m sure he’d be going a little stir crazy.
And in Enter 77, they were supposed to signal if the hostiles got control of the station, also Mikhail was apparantly studying and wrote that “he was Andrey” in the margin of one of them. Like he was trying to masquerade as someone else.
so if they had Dharma fooled all this time, and now they don’t, and Dharma is coming, that may be why the show can’t go on any longer then another 48 episodes? Because Dharma is coming to kick ass.
“Attention all planets of the Solar Federation. We have assumed control” :’)
Comment by Joezeppy — May 15, 2007 @ 8:03 am
C.
That wouldn’t be the reason. The audio for 16mm film is carried on a magnetic strip between the film frame and the sprockets.
Comment by gusteaux — May 15, 2007 @ 8:34 am
Hey, your mother just called. She told me to tell you that dinner is in an hour. Go home, eat, get some rest, and grow the hell up.
Comment by GMoney — May 15, 2007 @ 9:49 am
WELL SAID!!
Comment by Tukachen — May 15, 2007 @ 9:57 am
I was thinking about the timing on Ben’s childhood and how it matches Danielle’s arrival. It could well be that Alex is in fact Ben’s daughter - with Danielle! Maybe Danielle was Dharma and escaped the purge and now is hiding with fear that she would be killed if the others find out she’s still alive…
Comment by Rog — May 15, 2007 @ 10:38 am
I think that the pallets are still dropped because Mikeal was still requesting them through the computer that locke conveniently blew up. So to the dharma folks “off of” the island…it’s business as usual. You get the request via the computer, you drop the pallet. Now that the tech station Mikeal was manning is blown to bits, I think Dharma will get wind of it. That and the fact that the hatch is blown to shreds and no-one can push the button. The Dharma folks are going to come looking for the island i think. I think that whold Dharma story line is going to come to a head because all of the “business as usual” stuff is now blown up, thanks to locke. Swan, Mikeal station, Submarine. What doesn’t this guy blow up. Jesus!
Comment by Kevin — May 15, 2007 @ 10:39 am
But one thing….u didnt describe how you thought the hostiles roamed the island before the Dharma Initiative….how the hell did they get there? and why?
And why is it Richard that now takes command from Ben if he was indeed an “original inhabitant” of the island (Richard ages very well I might add). They unlocked a whole new story with that last episode….and I love how Roger “Work Man” was Ben’s dad
Comment by Damon — May 15, 2007 @ 10:40 am
ANNND…everyone forgot about Penelope’s Dad…He’s got sumthin to do with Dharma, i’m tellin ya. And member??? they asked Mr. Widmore to come back…and he said yes..he’ll be really important to this show at some point, probably next season
Comment by Damon — May 15, 2007 @ 10:49 am
seriously tho…people are referring all these connections with Naomi and Dharma…yeah somewhere along the line they’re connected maybe ( being that Mr. widmore has an affiliation, and penelope is his daughter…penelope sent Namoi there) But Naomi already said she was there for Desmond and that Penelope sent her. I’m gonna puke If i hear another person say that Dharma sent Naomi to make sure eveything is okay
Comment by Damon — May 15, 2007 @ 11:41 am
I like your take on Smokey/Cerberus. It jives with the overall themes that Dharma’s downfall in this respect may have been an attempt to contain Smokey using Cerberus. Their attempts to control the island’s (weird but) natural phenomena have generally failed and even led to their downfall; why would this one be any different?
Comment by Tim J. — May 15, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
Isn’t the Arrow used for meteorology? At least, that’s what I think. Nice theory, by the way.
Comment by Rachel — May 15, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Has anyone posed the idea that Naomi MIGHT be DHARMA? Come to check on why there is suddenly silence from both the Flame and the Swan?
Comment by Bumfluff — May 15, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Gonna puke now?
Damn, wish i’d read every post
Comment by Bumfluff — May 15, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Does anyone remember the pile of pneumatic tubes that someone had been sending from the pearl? Perhaps Dharma was picking those up. Which was not what most people thought at the time. Could there have been Dharma there and Radzinsky in the Swan left to mind there long term assignments? It makes sense that since they are supposed to wait for replacements; the station operators could have been left alive by the Hostiles at least until they could get things together to impersonate Dharma.
I believe the action is going underground soon. Could that be were everything started?
Comment by DT — May 16, 2007 @ 1:36 am
hi first time poster i like lots of others liked the theory that it was smokey who took the form of walt eko’s brother jack!’s dad however i don’t think so now as ben saw his mother outside the window of his room which was inside the sonice fence that smokey apparently can’t get past so while i like your theory doc i don’t think there’s any proof of smokey taking human appearance anymore
Comment by mattb — May 16, 2007 @ 1:56 am
Not only that but also what was Kelvin doing their then? He refered to the others as hostils or was he just a plant in the station for the others like mikhali in the flame? I forget all the details of his backstory, why he got to the island,etc…any help here? But most likely he was not Dharma unless the purge occured very recently within Des’s time on the island……So Kelvin - Dharma, other, or something else?
Comment by ezsteel10 — May 16, 2007 @ 7:07 am
I’m new to this and all those theories are great! But isn’t cerberus a 3-headed dog who guarded the gates! If so i’d say the purpose of cerberus is to guard something! But WHAT???
And cerberus can look and see things about that person! In the episode where we first saw it and when Eko stood up to it as the screen goes through the smoke images flash and you see people connected to Eko’s life! Discuss!
Comment by Tom — May 16, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
AH/MDG= Alvar Hanso/Marvin Degroot. I think I spelled that correct.
Comment by Joshua Standifur — May 16, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
I totally agree with you about cerberus. I think he’s there to gaurd something, but what is the question. It was almost like he was looking through Eko’s life. Trying to decide if he was a good or bad person.
Comment by Joshua Standifur — May 16, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
the time loop theory explains the drop offs of supplies.
Comment by emoline — October 3, 2008 @ 8:16 am