The Best Laid Plans… My Finale Predictions
Throwing spoilers (foilers?) to the wind, I’ve come to a few conclusions regarding the finale that are motivated by a few lingering plot threads. Like, why does Ben trust Juliet to go undercover? Her plan to kill him probably was legit, and he must be aware of this. Why doesn’t he notice that Richard and some of the ex-hostiles don’t seem to be on his side anymore?
What follows is my speculation on what might be happening with at least the war segment of the finale, obviously there are many more diversions awaiting us than just the war, I’ll get into that next.
While it is 100% speculation, I’m treating it as spoiler just in case. Yes, I am aware that it does not consider some spoiler details already released, so don’t even bother going there.
I may be way off, so no accuracy is guaranteed, but if I had the ball here’s how I’d play it…
The Facts
Is Ben stupid? No. In fact, we now know he is a master manipulator; so much so that there sometimes seems to be a bit of prescience involved in his plotting. Just look at the whole ‘get my self’ captured deal from season two! (Yes, that was plotting of convenience to accommodate Emerson’s popularity, but it doesn’t change how things are.) So dismissing any notion that Ben is suffering from a bout of naiveté, let’s make some assumptions:
- Ben knows that he cannot trust Juliet. In fact he is counting on her to betray him.
- Ben knows that Richard and the other ex-hostiles have doubts in him.
- Ben knows that Locke could potentially nudge him out of his role as leader.
- Ben knows that Locke, as leader, would take the hostiles down a path of peace.
The Setup
So we can see that Ben has a few problems here and that his agenda (resurrecting his mother via island magic) is at risk in the process. What’s a manipulator to do? Manipulate, of course!
First he puts Juliet in the LOSTies camp. He knows that she will see this as an opportunity to finally break free of her bonds, so he gives her a mechanism she thinks she can use to her advantage: he will tell her exactly when his people will show up.
Next he acts on the opportunity to allow Locke to mix and mingle with ‘Hostiles’ who he knows are plotting behind his back. That’s right, Ben’s not stupid. He knows some of them have LOST faith in him, and that is okay by him as long as he takes care of the problem before they organize.
Next, he creates a situation which he knows will cause his people to choose sides between him and Locke. By shooting Locke, he convinces Locke that he really did hear Jacob. When he shoots him, he even makes sure to aim for the side which contains the least vital organs, ensuring that with a little island magic, he will live. The hostiles will be convinced that Locke must be followed because they have some sort of spiritual imperative to follow the "one who talks to Jacob." The non-native others will be more apt to continue following Ben. Either way the event will weed out the faithful from the faithless.
The Plan
We find out that some of the hostiles, maybe even all of them, were following Locke and Ben all along. They rescue him from the mass grave and are able to heal him with island magic. They pledge their loyalty to Locke and tell him that his people may be in danger, and that they think Ben has been misleading ‘the others’ for his own gain. They agree to accompany Locke to the beach in peace to offer their assistance in repelling the ‘other’ others. What they don’t know is…
Ben has no intention of raiding the beach. He knew once Locke was amongst them he could manipulate the situation so that the ex-hostiles, who were a threat to his position, would gravitate towards Locke. During that same time, he would plant Juliet, who he knew would betray him, and cause the LOSTies to prepare an aggressive ambush. He also knew that once Locke was in control of the hostiles, he would lead them back to the beach, particularly since Locke’s definition of ‘good people’ would now carry far more weight than Ben’s. In essence, he has setup the demise of those who challenge him; the LOSTies are doing his work for him and they have no idea. This fits with the Locke and Jack confrontation perfectly.
Remember, aside from the war, Charlie still has to hike 8 hours down the beach to reconnect the sonar beacon, Naomi’s alliances will probably be revealed. End LOST season three with just a big fight? I doubt that! What other twists await?
What do you think folks? Crazy? Could Happen? Chime in.
So, you think that the showdown would be between the Losties and Locke’s others? If so, i think that this could be a valid theory, because we know that there is going to be a rift between two of the Losties. This would then force the Losties to choose either Jack, who they think may be an Other, or Locke, who will have some explaining to do, but may be able to win over people solely based on the fact that they dont want to follow jack anymore. This would cause the two factions of Losties that we have heard so much about.
I like that you have Ben still being in control. I think that many people are forgetting that Ben has risen to power with these people for a reason, and he will continue to control them by using his manipulation skills. Great theory!
Comment by kd — May 13, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
I actually think that is a BRILLIANT theory. I was really getting into that. Although I doubt it would happen I hope it does. It would be quite a jaw dropping twist.
Comment by Barry — May 13, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
I completely agree, it is the ONLY thing that makes sense. There is no way that Ben has been slipping like this the last few weeks (misplacing his tape recorder, allowing Locke to call him out like that) without some kind of master plan behind it. Yet the one thing that doesn’t make sense is the whole Jacob thing. If Ben wanted Locke to think he heard Jacob, either he a. knew Locke would hear him or b. faked the voice. I can’t imagine that Ben faked that creepy voice, but how would he have known Locke was “the one” to hear Jacob?
Comment by bostonite — May 13, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
Perfect!
Comment by Flave — May 13, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
My theory is…
Jack’s the enemy!
Ben felt threatened and this is the outcome of that.
Comment by Boss — May 13, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
i like it!! i believe that locke is the big hero in all of this as well…
Comment by kakapp — May 13, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Actually, I was thinking the same thing since that preview. I think the Locke-Jack confrontation is not Losties vs. Losties (picking sides), it’s Locke’s Others vs. Jack’s Losties.
Comment by Chris — May 13, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
I totally agree Doc. With the addition that something wild and unexpected will intervine at the end of the finale. The game changer. I’m not even gonna touch this one.
Could it also be, with all the father-cide going around, Alex will be put in the position of offing Ben next season?
Comment by Stev — May 13, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
I don’t think Ben shot Locke knowing that he would live. I think that Ben knew that Locke would want to go see Jacob, so Ben brought the real Sawyer to the Island so Locke would kill him. By killing him Locke would become “bad” and “unpure”. Ben doesn’t realize that James(Sawyer) killed the real Sawyer, so he thinks that Locke is just going to die in the pit since the Island doesn’t heal “bad” people.
Comment by Kyle Laskiewicz — May 13, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
I like where your head is at, Doc, but I’m a little fuzzy on one point: if setting Locke up to lead the Others to the beach was Ben’s plan all along, why shoot him? Why take the chance? The crisis of his leadership was there the second Locke returned with his father’s body. In fact, it seemed to me that they were ready then and there to turn away from Ben and embrace Locke. With the opportunity at hand, why not Ben just fake a hissy fit, say, “Fine! Follow him! See how far that gets you!” And storm away. Or storm away after introducing Locke to Jacob. Why shoot him?
Comment by Doc Jensen — May 13, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
I totally agree! The final could be between Locke’s new friends vs. jack and the survivors.
Im still not sure who is going to die though, i’m sure I heard somewhere that there were 3 deaths looming. My guess is Alex gets killed in the ambush by Danielles TnT, and that Jack gets shot by Locke. No clue of the other! A pun? maybe!
Pure speculation! Can’t wait!
Comment by Stu B — May 13, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
Anyone think that maybe the reason Ben is obsessed with fertility on the island is because maybe Jacob needs to be reborn or something to that effect? It’s a possibility. But so is anything at this point…
Also, what I think is falling under the radar is that Juliette did allow Claire to get sick via computer ship virus… can we really trust her?
Comment by Steeeeve — May 13, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Would that not make ben a “bad person” in the eyes of the island. If there is any truth to all this talk about the island favoring the “good people” and that killing someone makes you “impure” why would Ben, with the knowlege of the island’s judgment that you assert he possesses, shoot Locke and leave him for dead. By your assumptions, this would render Ben himself “impure”. That motive is illogical IMHO.
Comment by Chris Moonier — May 13, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
I agree with this comment. Juliet is definately not helping the others because they are forcing her too. I think that she may play a major role in the looming destruction.
Comment by kd — May 13, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
I think that this is not a bad theory overall. It fits right in with, and more-so elevates the whole “Ben is a mastermind of manipulation” construct of this season. While watching the ep 20 I truly did begin to believe that Ben was cracking up, loosing his touch. If this IS indeed the case, I think it makes for a great turning point in the storyline.
If indeed Ben is still just pulling the strings in a carefully orchestrated con, well, like I mentioned before, it would elevate Ben to a brand new class of manipulative asshole, which is also great TV. I do worry that a con this long could be dissapointing to many viewers, who have perhaps taken more at face value and would be offended at having been in a way conned themselves.
Not a bad theory, It is highly plausable, yet so much is uncertainty. It has got me thinking though, so much that I have never posted anything ever until now.
Comment by Chris Moonier — May 13, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Hmmm sounds like a very good theory…but what about the clips where Ben tells them to take out anyone who get’s in the way and Karl yelling “my people are coming!”….can you theorize with this fitting in there too?
Comment by LiLi AKA ilovelocke — May 13, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
Well, the interesting thing is, Michael Emerson pointed out in an interview a few days back that Locke will survive because of something he gave up. Could Ben have purposefully shot him so the bullet would clear the Kidney? Or here is another, possibly more likely option, Ben knows they are being followed by a contingent of the hostiles who are eager to see what happens at Locke’s rendezvous with Jacob.
It could be the hostiles have a measure of control over island magic. How this would relate to Ben’s tumor is an unknown, of course. But they may be responsible for Locke’s miracle healing.
One dead give away that something is slightly off is Ben’s line in the promo “If any of them get in the way, kill them.” That practically guarantees someone other than the beach folk are at play. Killing beach folk who get in the way would be basic protocol at this point, we’ve seen enough beach raids to know that is how the others roll. Ben saying that again must have some higher meaning.
Comment by DocArzt — May 13, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Of course, I must defer to my disclaimer on accuracy, or the lack thereof. One possible variation is Ben counts on the first wave as being the diversion, and intends to come in after.
Karl is not with ‘his people’ anymore. We haven’t seen him amongst them and he was pretty sure he’d be killed if he returned. I think he’s been living in the periphery. So from that vantage point, he might not realize the wrong people are coming. (Ie locke’s others)
Think about this. When Juliet says that Sun’s baby was conceived on island, was she lying? Was Juliet’s job to find pregnant women who were knocked up off island? They might have trimmed that from the lost moment, because Juliet never actually lied to Sun that we know of.
Comment by DocArzt — May 13, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
Another possibility is that if Locke has the communion that Ben identified, he may have known the bullet would only, at best, slow him down.
Comment by DocArzt — May 13, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
OK. wow. this is great. i think this could definentaly happen
Comment by berf — May 13, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
This is all good.
Questions:
- Where does the Danielle has got the dynamite to avenge Ben stealing here child bit come in?
- What about the Tsunami? The dates fit. Looks to me (given African planes and ships; mention of Bali) that the Losties are in the Indian Ocean. Plus this would give a great end of season cliffhanger scenario.
- Where is the Penny and ‘the last five minutes’ bit?
Comment by GeeWizz — May 13, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
Back to the topic of Ben and Alex…I don’t think Ben is really her father. We know pretty much for sure that Rousseau is Alex’s mother. Yet, when Rousseau captures Ben in Season 2 (and hands him over to Sayid), you’d think that she would know a bit more about him if they had a child together…so either Rousseau is in with the Others, which I doubt, or Ben and the Others kidnapped Alex when she was a kid, and she isn’t really Ben’s daughter.
Regarding your theory…I think you’re right, there’s no way Ben overlooked the missing tape recorder, or even trusted Juliet to begin with. He’s definitely planning something bigger, this could be it, but I don’t think what happened at Jacob’s hut was what Ben was expecting to happen…he looked honestly shocked when Locke asked him what he said (after he heard the ‘Help Me.’).
Comment by Greg — May 13, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Juliet apologize to Sun for lying to her? What did she lie to her about? The only thing I can think of is she lied about why she had to go back into the medical station, other than that it made me wonder if she lied about something else to Sun (father of the baby?). Just wanted some clarification on this.
Comment by bdub — May 13, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
Someone please answer this if possible:
Why is Ben wanting war against the Losties?
Comment by Josh — May 13, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Ben is already “unpure” in the eyes of the island. Whatever he is planning it is not for the good of the Island, which is why Richard tried to help Locke and tell him about James. Richard knows that Locke is the only person who can stop Ben, and he knew that if Locke killed the real Sawyer then he would not be able to stop Ben.
Comment by Kyle — May 13, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Ben’s Smart, but sometimes smart people do stupid things. Ben maybe chasing too many rabbits (no Pun) and he may have gotten so preoccupied with Locke, Jacob, retaining power, fertility issues, and having to wait all the way to Feb 08 for season 4! That he might have slipped up. I don’t think it’s been Ben’s past experience to suspect that people are gathering against him, this would be new to him and I don’t think he’s going to be that prepared.
As far as the Karl comment, Karl would consider the Others to be his people, and I don’t think he would mistake Locke as his people. Even Juliet considers the Others her people. She told Kate - My people left me Behind. Old ties, people don’t forget easy. Ben even acknowledged Dharma as his people. I don’t think Karl would forget so soon.
Then there was a comment about Locke (after having Cooper killed) was impure and the island/hostiles may not accept him as leader. But, what about Ben? He killed his own father, and was the intentional reason that many innocent Dharma people died. That’s pretty unpure. If it’s purity, than the only one’s fit would be Hurley (any Death around him was accidental and out of his control) or Aaron.
Comment by CajunAngel — May 13, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
In regards to everybody’s opinion of the good and bad. How do we know that we aren’t functioning off what Ben determines to be good and bad based on his agenda?
Comment by docarzt — May 13, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
Actually this is just a fragment… there would be much more to come after.
Comment by docarzt — May 13, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Doc, I liked your theory on first read, but then I thought about it and it doesn’t add up for me.
Do you think Locke’s Others would just walk casually down to the beach like that? They know what happened to Ethan. Locke would surely make himself seen first. Besides, even if they did mistakenly attacl Locke’s Others, this wouldn’t be something you’d call a “Locke vs. Jack” war. It would be an accidental slaughter.
Comment by Joe — May 13, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
First of all, I believe one key thing we are missing is why was Jack laying in the middle of the jungle when the plane originally fell from the sky ? Thats against all physics to have him land out their! He didnt just pop out of the plane window. The only other castaway to land away from the plane was Bernard! and he was in a passenger seat. So where was Jack’s passenger seat? because if you look back, he was buckled in my friends.
Also did anyone notice when he was running out of the jungle after seeing vincent, that he ran by a white shoe? lol
Also i’m sorry I’m on an irrelevant rant but was watching season 1, episode 2 and towards the middle their is a segment where you hear Rose talking about her hearing the sound of the so called creature out in the jungle ( aka Smokey!) and she was saying that it sounded like something she has remembered in her life! So does Rose know something about Smokey lol? should go watch it and hear for yourself, maybe i’m just looking for things.
Comment by White Shoe Jack! — May 13, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
I know it’s off topic, but the the thought just came to me head for the first time and I don’t think there has been any discussion about this. Where did Karl come from? He’s the same age as Alex, who we know was born on the island, probably, shortly after the Purge. Was Karl one of the Dharma kids or did he come from somewhere else? And who raised him? Ben seems to protect Alex, even when she is causing mischief (yes, she’s the boss’s daughter, but still). Karl didn’t seem to have anyone claiming him, even though he talked about spending time in the backyard of the barracks with Alex as kids. Do you think he was raised by the Others? I think maybe he snuck into the barracks to see Alex and “his people” aren’t the Others. Any thoughts or ideas?
Comment by C — May 13, 2007 @ 8:43 pm
Rose was familiar with the sound, as it is similar to the sound of a receipt printer in a NYC Taxi Cab (which is, in reality, the basis of the monsters ticking sound).
Comment by Brick — May 13, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Yes, you may be onto something…however, about Juliette apologizing, could it just be a general “sorry” because she told Sun she wanted to help her because she wanted to give someone good news again, but really just wanted the info? know what i mean?
Comment by LiLi AKA iloveLocke — May 13, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
Hahahahahaha, you might be right!!lol
Comment by LiLi — May 13, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
BTW the last comment i made was referring to Brick
Comment by LiLi — May 13, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Well done Doc, as always. It seems as plausible to me as what Darlton will end up showing us, as always it is always different than our predictions, sometimes way better, but great nonetheless.
Comment by tanside — May 13, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
doc, i think you’re way off-base here. lost has always followed a theme of two sides-one light, one dark. under your scenario, where is bens faction? now we have locke vs jack vs ben? i don’t think so.
Comment by goldenmalicious — May 13, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
Well, one thing in this theory I defiantly am buying into is that some of the others at least, have been following Locke and Ben. Wasn’t Locke dropping orange peels and looking over his shoulder like he was leaving a trail? That wouldn’t have been an accident to put that shot in.
Comment by 80sKatie — May 13, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
It would be awesome but the only thing that doesn’t click with me is why both sides would start to fight? Locke wouldn’t demand his “Others” start killing Losties, and on the flip side once the beach-folk saw Locke casually walking in, they wouldn’t just ram him with a pitchfork. He’d be like “guys, not rolling in to steal kids, we’re just kinda not big on Ben these days.” All it would do is put both sides together because they’re certainly not just going to murder each other for fun.
Comment by benjaminjames — May 13, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
Maybe Ben somehow knows of the dynamite in tent plan and will let Locke and his new groupies walk into this ambush planned by the Losties, thereby once again letting the Losties and Locke do is dirty work for him. Kill 2 birds with one stone. Locke and his Ben rejects are gone, Losties are out of ammo, he pulls a hostile take over of the pregnent women. The Losties thwarted by Ben…again
Comment by Sbujero — May 14, 2007 @ 1:48 am
Damn it am I the only person that thinks Richard hasn’t aged a bit. Look at him in Ben’s flashback, the only thing that has changed since ben was a kid is Richard’s hair!!
Comment by Ben's Wheelchair — May 14, 2007 @ 2:50 am
Damn it am I the only person that thinks Richard hasn’t aged a bit. Look at him in Ben’s flashback, the only thing that has changed since ben was a kid is Richard’s hair!!
Comment by Ben's Wheelchair — May 14, 2007 @ 2:50 am
Doc — your theory fits with the rattlesnake in the mailbox name we know was given to the finale. Diabolical concept — good others lead by Locke causing war with losties thinking they are defending themselves. All of this manipulated by the crazy of all crazies BEN.
I posited that Ben was not well educated, not stupid per se. Ben is smart in the same way Charles Manson is/was smart. Both are crazy as the day is long but very keen on what makes people tick.
Because we are not living the island in a linear manner like the characters, we can see all the manipulations and what seem like disconnects. It would help to keep the viewers aware of this. Back in the old days of radio and theatre serials there were little reminders for audiences such as, meanwhile back at the ranch, or at the same time and the newer date time stamps. Without these reminders I find it difficult sometimes to grasp what each character knows at any given time.
Now back to your theory; while it appears to be logical and most likely, I don’t like it as a story line. It is too diabolical and once the source (Ben) is indentified to all (others, losties and hangers-on), all hell will break loose. One other kicker, Jack and Juliet are very smart and well educated so I find it hard to believe they have underestimated Ben. Each was manipulated masterfully by Ben in previous episodes. Each became aware of the manipulation, and in the case of Jack, even took it as a challenge and figured a minimum disturbance (surgery episode). So while I think you are right, I’m hoping the powers that be are not dumbing down J&J to fall into this trap.
One more on the Ben trap; did Locke hear the other side of the tape? It seems that if Ben had put his message on it and Sawyer heard the Juliet side, then Locke HAD to have listened to Ben’s message. SO for Locke to walk into the losties camp with a party of others on the designated snatch the preggers day would be INCREDIBLY stupid. So because i don’t like the theory I’m holding on to this last string to “say it ain’t so”.
Lastly — who is the third to die? Naomi is an obvious choice. Her unanticipated appearance (no background story with Penny ordering it all) and obvious escape potential remind me of the unnamed away team member in Star Trek — always doomed to die.
Comment by dug — May 14, 2007 @ 4:07 am
Nah, here we have Locke vs Jack by Ben’s manipulation. The fact is, there IS going to be a Lock/Jack battle royal. Ausiello spoiled it.
Comment by DocArzt — May 14, 2007 @ 4:47 am
No offense Sbujero, but that is exactly what my article says.
Comment by DocArzt — May 14, 2007 @ 5:02 am
So far in the finales we have two or three subplots such as raft,black rock and hatch or Michaels leading the losties into the trap along with locke and des in the hatch.So its safe to assume there will be more than the battle on the beach.Maybe Jack heads off with..say…
Roussou to find the radio tower while Sawyer and gang are left at the beach.Jack bumps into Locke who isnt keen on getting the radio signal out and thats when they have their showdown.
Comment by donna — May 14, 2007 @ 5:36 am
It’s definitely obvious to me that Ben definitely knows what he’s doing by telling Juliet and Locke about the “taking of the pregnant women” because he doesn’t trust either one of them and he is setting some kind of trap for the Losties so he figures they will both go and tell Jack and the rest what is going to happen but of course something will happen but will not be what they anticipated…
Comment by Lost In Florida — May 14, 2007 @ 5:53 am
i have been following lost since day1, seen this site a few months back, followed it closly, never posted as never knew what was going to happen.
When i watched season 1 seeing the hatch in the final episode blew my mind.
So I kept watching, all the while the only thing I really wanted to know was wtf is up with the island.
In fact, i didnt even really care what was up with the island, I just wanted to know what was up with the hatch and the 108 minutes. Since the hatch blew up and nothing major happned eg island is still there i have lost a lot of interest but I have kept watching.
Now above my post, someone has said SEASON 4? Is this true, I honestly like the program, but it has been going on for some 4 years, and they havnt answered 1 thing in the whole 4 years except that the dharma initiave (the most interesting part of the whole show) was a hippie resort, i dont care about a ghost, i dont care about some porterican chick falling from the sky, i sure as hell dont care about a war between a few group of people totaling 100 or less.
Its fun to get into a show, but after some 68 hours (almost 3 full days) of watching and no answers, and im getting the distinct feeling that they are not going to have an end even that even comes a smigen close to my expectations, AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO JUST WANTS THE F*#KING THING TO END SO WE CAN SEE WTF IS GOING ON, OR IF THERE IS A SEASON 4, TELL US WTF THE ISLAND IS, AND HAVE A WHOLE SEASON ON THEM TRYING TO ESCAPE, BUT U CANT ESCAPE WHAT YOU DONT KNOW, IM FARKN RAGING HERE, ANOTHER SEASON, COME ON, IM SICK OF SUB PLOTS, AND TWISTS, THEY ARE HAVING LESS AND LESS IMPACT BECAUSE THE WRITERS ARE TWISTING THINGS THEY HAVNT EVEN EXPLAINED, AND I THT EP20, THE DHARMA FLASHBACK WOULD AT LEAST REVEAL SOMETHING, ANYTHING ABOUT THE 108 MINS AND THE NUMBERS AND WHT HAVE YOU, AND ALL WE SEE IS SOME RAVING LOON GASSING SOMEONE, IF i WANTED TO SEE THAT ID WATCH SHINDLERS LIST.
Doc I like that you have taken the time to write up what you think is going to happen in the final, is there anychance that you could take a little time and give us some info on what you think the whole thing is about, or if you think the writers have just gone and dug themself a hole by not having an ending in mind when they started, especially if they thought it would be 3 seasons now its 4, thats another 24 episodes of what?
I saw the post re, timelines, and not purgery because the writers said it wasnt, but really, if that is the end, how many people will be lining up to bomb the producers home.
Comment by Hamish — May 14, 2007 @ 6:04 am
i think they should all just stand like penguins in a huddle around sun because then she won’t be taken!
i also think although this theory is logical, i agree that ben was suprised and scared when he realised locke could hear jacob.
don’t forget the spoilers said:
HURLEY WILL PLAY A MAJOR ROLE IN THE FINALE!!!
Comment by ross — May 14, 2007 @ 6:10 am
Hmmmm… Maybe the showdown has little to do with Ben but all about Naiomi and more importantly: Her satillite phone. We already know that Locke hates anything that could get anyone off the Island (the submarine?) and this phone could be the key to their escape. Jack wants to get this phone to work and Locke will do anything to stop him from succeding! It wouldn’t be as blood, guts, and glory as everyone seems to think but Ben might pop his head in and support/manipulate Locke into destroyig the phone (as he did with the sub). This could cause a war of sorts between those who want to leave the island, and those who don’t (Wonder which side Rose and Bernard will chose!)
Comment by Brown — May 14, 2007 @ 6:23 am
“I don’t think Ben shot Locke knowing that he would live. I think that Ben knew that Locke would want to go see Jacob, so Ben brought the real Sawyer to the Island so Locke would kill him. By killing him Locke would become “bad” and “unpure”. Ben doesn’t realize that James(Sawyer) killed the real Sawyer, so he thinks that Locke is just going to die in the pit since the Island doesn’t heal “bad” people.”
This is my opinion, too. I’m not sure if Locke knew that going in, or was just lucky, but I’m sure Ben was counting on it. He figures Locke wants in so bad, he’d overcome his hesitancy and “bite the apple” in the biblical (Adam and Eve?) sense, thereby rendering himself unfit for the island.
Comment by joezeppy — May 14, 2007 @ 7:43 am
Come to think of it, maybe that’s why he beat the crap out of Mikhail, to cement the concept in Ben’s head that he’s flipped out and become a ruthless killer. That seemed to be really out of character for him.
I also wonder if Jacob has the ability to influence things from inside his confinement. (I’m not sure what the circle of powder was, but I immediately thought it must be there to keep Jacob in.)
If he can push people or events in a certain direction, he could be a “ghost in the machine” so to speak, adding an element of chaos or unpredictability to Ben’s plans, whatever they may be.
Comment by joezeppy — May 14, 2007 @ 7:54 am
I think you hit the nail perfectly on the head.
Comment by Mentat — May 14, 2007 @ 7:57 am
The question is, if Ben was never talking to Jacob at all, how do we know they aren’t following Ben’s interpretation of a ‘Bad’ man.
Comment by Joebee — May 14, 2007 @ 8:05 am
Has anyone thought that maybe rose and bernard are going to be killed in the finale? They are listed in the cast as per the press release.
Comment by JonW — May 14, 2007 @ 8:07 am
i understand that we end up with jack vs locke or sawyer, but my question is what is bens new group doing in your scenario? watching?
Comment by goldenmalicious — May 14, 2007 @ 8:22 am
I agree almost completely, with the one caveat of the whole “making him believe he heard jacob”. I’m going with the potentional hint that Darlton threw out there that Ben brought Locke to see Jacob as a litmus test to see if he really was special.
Comment by Daneurysm — May 14, 2007 @ 8:42 am
I’ve been thinking about it , i think jacob is a program, like all the defense systems on the island as such ,i’ve been thinking about it thats why other people cant see him because he has to be turned on to be seen, and plus in the man behind the curtain , the wizard of oz reference refers to the machine representing the great and powerful oz being manipulated by a man , thats my 2/100.and i think that the scenario you listed would be awesome and may be right.
Comment by nick — May 14, 2007 @ 8:56 am
Something by Kristin/E! Online kinda makes me thing it won’t exactly happen that way.
“Ben will be left cowering like a wittle baby”
I don’t think he’s in as control as much as we think he is.
http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=511e4d1c-682e-4052-8fb6-1d8ddabe178b
Comment by Daneurysm — May 14, 2007 @ 9:09 am
I think I found a fly in the slaw. Remember Ben got really nervous when found out his tape recorder was missing. If he was really planning to be as slick as Doc thinks he is then we wouldn’t have gotten nervous about it.
Plus if this island is as isolated as the others want you to believe why would they be so worried about a ship being so close to the island.
Comment by Lynn — May 14, 2007 @ 9:11 am
If Locke would become unfit for the island for killing his father, then why would Ben be considered fit for the island after doing the exact same thing?
Is there an expiration date (pun unintended) on consequences for killing your dad on the island? Or has Ben been carrying on a charade of communion with Jacob for these many years.
Part of the conversation between Ben and Jacob seems to indicate that Jacob questioned the motives of Ben. It is as if Jacob accused Ben of attempting to subvert Jacob’s authority.
There seems to be no doubt that Jacob is Ben’s spirtual father, or that Locke is a Joseph-like character in this story. The comparison goes as far as leaving Locke in a pit to die just like Joseph’s brothers did to him.
I believe that Locke will ultimately give the losties the ability to leave the island, but some will stay with him.
More to the point of the thread, even Jacob does not trust Ben. Ben is manipulating the Great Him. Someone with that kind of ability to deceive certainly has the capability of manipulating would-be allies into destroying each other.
Since Locke is a master games-man himself, it will only be a matter of time before the tables are turned and Locke prevails (that is if he lives beyond the finale). After all, do we really know that the sub was destroyed?
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 14, 2007 @ 9:15 am
I like the theory, but Some of the loose ends in the theory is;
Why, really, would Jack trust Juliette? Why would he trust anything she says? Can’t he see that Ben and Juliette might have set him up??
Doesn’t Jack remember the last time they went- they got hit with poison arrows?? That ambushes never work?
Don’t jack and sayid remember that the last time they thought they knew where they were -the tent village with Michael- it was all a SETUP and PROPS? That they can never predict what the Others will do?
Of course, Ben Knows they will be waiting for them at the appointed time at the Losties camp and he will send people who he wants to be killed.
They should know that anything Jack tells them about his time with the Others is suspect, because the others could have been manipulating jack all along just for this, just like they fooled and manipulated Michael.
If Sayid of all people falls for Jack’s stupid scheme of Blowing up anyone who shows up at the beach I will lose all faith in Sayid.
Of Course, it will turn out that ben was not after who we think he was after (NOT Sun) and that this was all a ruse, and he will end up taking who we don’t suspect (Aaron? Kate?), or having the Losties kill someone who Ben wanted dead.
We forget that Juliette was doing some very sinister strange experiments BEFORE she met up with Richard, and why would she have been working with Ben so closely even though she knew he would never let her off that island? She Came to that Island with HER OWN AGENDA which has yet to be revealed.
Also, Locke at this time does NOT know who is good and who is bad from the others- who was complicit with the killing of Dharma.
I believe one of the surprises is that Alex is ANNIE’s daughter. That Annie was pregnant from a fling that Ben and Annie had. Or, it could be that Richard did gas Annie and her baby, but tricked ben by saying that he had “saved” Annie’s baby, but he really kidnapped danielle’s daughter and presented her to Ben as the baby.
I have a feeling that Cuse & Co. are going to try in future seasons to try to present Dharma, and what they were doing on the island, as evil as well, to try and “redeem” what the Hostiles did, but that won’t wash with me because they will never be able to convince me that they all deserved to be gassed.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 14, 2007 @ 9:25 am
This is a crazy thought, but what if Locke climbs out of the pit, goes into Jacob’s house and Jacob’s spirit enters Locke’s body?
I imagine that would completely freak Ben out.
Comment by Shawn — May 14, 2007 @ 9:29 am
juliette told sun that the reason she was giving her the ultrascan was to give someone good news again, this was complete rubbish as her actual motive was to check up on the developing feotus to make sure that it was suitable for bens fertility research, so she had lied to sun by claiming a false motive.
Comment by K1llJ0y — May 14, 2007 @ 9:37 am
Interesting theory and very plausable. My predictions are on the other side of things…Naomi and her ship.
I think we are going to find that she is Dharma and they are back to reclaim the island. Of course with the Original Inhabitants gone, Ben is going to have a very different battle on his hands.
And just a (wild and crazy) thought here regarding Ben, His Mom, Annie, Jacob and the Infertility issue. Given that perhaps Annie might still be around, could Ben be trying to find a way to fix her infertility? And perhaps he might be trying to get her pregnant by the island (Jacob) so his Mother can perhaps be reborn via Annie? I’m talking crazy…I need coffee.
Comment by RazzleDazzle — May 14, 2007 @ 9:40 am
sure theres black v white. but there are always shades of grey.
im still under the impression that we’ll be introduced to a new evil as a set up for next season, that evil being the dharma boys.
the image in my head is the conflict and problems of the episode being (somehow) resolved and everything seeming like it might work out…. then BAM you reach into that mailbox and you pull out a seriously evil snake. i see dharma (namoi, someone else….penny?) killing a lostie favourite without hesitation or remorse in the final minutes
Comment by mandy — May 14, 2007 @ 9:52 am
The biggest question in my head that, as far as I know, know one here has addressed is how did Ben come to know Jacob? I seem to remember that when Locke threatened to have Richard take him to meet Jacob, Ben replied that Richard had never seen him. Did another member of the Hostiles introduce Ben to Jacob? Did Ben stumble upon Jacob himself? Was Jacob known to the Hostiles before Ben?
Personally I like the theory that Jacob is Alvar Hanso’s anti-technolgy, pro-island twin theory that I have seen a few places.
Comment by CoryMac — May 14, 2007 @ 10:23 am
Doc, I honestly can’t see it playing out any other way.
Comment by jimyy — May 14, 2007 @ 10:53 am
While I did not think it out to this degree, I have been arguing that Ben would not let things get so out of his control for weeks now. We would need a pretty good explanation to see Ben go from a master manipulator who is hatching extremely elaborate, convoluted schemes that always seem to work out; to being a flustered guy who leaves someone with a wound that probably wouldn’t be fatal off island expecting him to die.
Ben has a plan.
Comment by Eric — May 14, 2007 @ 11:37 am
Ben “pretending” to be slipping-up with the tape recorder, etc. seems unlikely to me. Why would he feign surprise at losing the tape recorder to Alpert and/or Tom. That would be completely unnecessary.
Comment by Walt_vs._Michael — May 14, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
This is a pretty good theory, but there’s some flaws in it. If Ben sent Juliet merely as a ruse to oust his non-faithful, that doesn’t really explain why Ben kept Juliet for 3 years working on a fertility problem. She never complained about him impeding her progress on it (just that she wanted to go home), and he never complained about anything she did. If he was causing the pregnancies to fail over some guilt complex for “killing” his mother, then keeping Juliet there was a waste.
Also, I don’t think John Locke would lead a bunch of Others back to the beach to abduct people, no matter what the cause. He would be the type to bring them all there, explain what’s happening on the island, and let the women decide themselves. Ben is greedy, and wants the island for himself, while John Locke is open and giving and thinks anybody should deserve it (if they don’t put chicken in their refrigerator, that is).
Comment by dhinge — May 14, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
The writer’s code name for this season finale is “snake in the mailbox”… Aside from the things discussed here about Losties vs Others, we are going to see a real twist in the last five minutes of the season finale.
Think about this:
Remember the end of last season? After all the episodes about having to press the numbers or else they are all going to die? But when they don’t press the numbers and the explosion goes off on the island what happens? Penny’s team finds them on the radar.
What if Penny’s “rescue team”, will come to the island, to wipe them out? Therefore, not pressing the numbers does lead to them dying…. hmmmm.
Comment by PoChop — May 14, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
Ben’s shock when Locke heard Jacob speak was not at all about Locke hearing Jacob speak. He was shocked at the fact that Jacob had somehow enlisted the aid of a mysterious, wily shoulder monkey!
Everyone knows that shoulder monkeys have a penchant for reeking havoc, so Ben became terrified that this shoulder monkey might help Jacob to unravel his convoluted, manipulative plans, ruining what he has been working so long and hard to achieve.
When Jacob regains enough strength to unleash the shoulder monkey upon the island, it will sneak in to the Losties camp and steal the sat-phone, but rather than phoning the offshore ship to save them, he will make prank calls to Mikhail in the remnants of the flame, driving Mikhail so crazy he will stab out his other eye with a broken bottle of Swan hatch merlot.
Doubt it? Doubt yourself, then! It’s gonna happen, baby, just you wait and see!
Comment by ShoulderMonkey — May 14, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
ShoulderMonkey drops knowledge like it’s toxic!!! Peace on the Lost beach, y’all! Peace on the Lost beach!
Comment by ShoulderMonkey — May 14, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
When I went home Sunday for Mother’s Day my mom and I discussed the latest episode of Lost. As we were sitting brainstorming ideas I think we might have hit on a good idea - remeber when Locke’s father described how he came to the island and he said the last thing he remebered he was in a car crash? We that started us thinking that maybe you can bring someone to the island if you kill them outside the island (think of Locke’s dad and Ben’s mom). And then we thought that if you die on the island you become one of those whispering voices the Losties hear in the woods sometimes.
Comment by Rebel Princess — May 14, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
didn’t anyone see when Ben and Locke were in the hut when Jacob seemingly went angry, becoz Locke turned his flashlight on, that there was a spilit second glance of a figure sat on the chair? it was when the hut was going crazy and Ben said “thats enough, you’ve had your fun” and gets pushed away. it is then it pans onto the chair for a second and a figure is there - which Locke must have seen. therefore, Locke must not only heard Jacob but also seen him. Is so, this opens the issue of Locke being “special” and be able to see this spirit-like person that is Jacob. can anyone tell me if they saw it as well and what they think.
Comment by simon87 — May 14, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
didn’t anyone see when Ben and Locke were in the hut when Jacob seemingly went angry, becoz Locke turned his flashlight on, that there was a spilit second glance of a figure sat on the chair? it was when the hut was going crazy and Ben said “thats enough, you’ve had your fun” and gets pushed away. it is then it pans onto the chair for a second and a figure is there - which Locke must have seen. therefore, Locke must not only heard Jacob but also seen him. Is so, this opens the issue of Locke being “special” and be able to see this spirit-like person that is Jacob. can anyone tell me if they saw it as well and what they think.
Comment by simon87 — May 14, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
It never made sense to me that Ben would somehow be in charge of the others when Richard was already one of them and much older than Ben. How did Ben get in charge? We know he is a master manipulator so I was wondering if Ben either was:
1. Able to hear Jacob so that made him special and he became some sort of chosen one to lead the others (hostels).
2. Able to hear Jacob at one time but he lost that power and was faking the conversation in the house… or maybe he could indeed hear Jacob but could not hear what Jacob said to Locke (thus making Locke special too).
3. Never able to hear Jacob at all and was just being his usual master manipulator self.
I’m wondering if the others have some prophecy thing about a man coming to the island who will one day kill his father and become some sort of leader. That’s why Ben had to kill his father and why Locke had to kill HIS father. Once that happens, someone takes this “leader” to Jacob to see if he can see or hear Jacob.
Remember that everyone seemed in awe when Locke joined them. Remember the looks they gave him? They all came to witness him killing his father and when he didn’t do it, Ben announced that Locke wasn’t who they thought he was. Ben seemed pleased and did his best to belittle Locke. Ben knew enough about Locke to know that he had his weaknesses, yet he also seemed to be nurturing him along. Maybe when he saw his leadership finally being threatened, he freaked and shot Locke.
If the cancer thing is true (Jacob being able to cure cancer or keep it away from the others), obviously Ben is falling out of favor and Jacob is allowing him to die.
Maybe Ben faked his “Jacob skills”, maybe not. But the fact is, Locke seems to be some sort of chosen one and Ben doesn’t want his leadership taken away.
Comment by Spike — May 14, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Wow, I can’t even remember who I am directing this to, but earlier up on the thread, there has been discussion of Locke beating the hell out of Mikhail. From the episode Enter 77, we know that Locke and Mikhail know each other somehow (or at least Mikhail knew about Locke) and Locke had no problem at all by trying to kill him then (via the fence)
Comment by 80sKatie — May 14, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
wow…I just thought of something,when locke went to the blackrock and let sawyer kill lockes father, Rousseau walked in to get dynamite….that probly was about 2-3 days away from current island time. Do you think that she knew something was going on, and needed the dynamite? or did jack ask her for it in advance? was he aware of he was going to do back then?
Comment by ohskux — May 15, 2007 @ 3:26 am
I think that This is to easy to be correct. I think that Ben is working for the Devil (Jacob). Going back to one of the first ever therories ever, that they are all in Purgatory. Notice the way that none of the Hostiles have aged (Richard) I know Ben has aged but he is still just waiting to get to heaven or Hell… I know this all sounds very religous, But I think that religon is all about mind games and this is what this show is all about!
Comment by Leon — May 15, 2007 @ 3:51 am
i am thinking and slate this all you like.. that the finale will be a locke return to the beach and naomi’s people will arrive and start a fight and will shoot jack and there will be no doctors there to save him.. GAME OVER for jack im thinkin!
Comment by LostLegend — May 15, 2007 @ 7:44 am
The finale is supposed to be a “game changer.” And there is supposed to be a game changing aerial shot coming.
My guess is that they reveal the actual location of the Island by doing a withdrawing shot away from the Island up into space.
Supposedly, it will shock everybody and change the trajectory of the show.
So, the island is either:
A) Not really an Island
B) In a location we never would have guessed (Antarctica?)
C) In a TIME period that is different form what we expected.
D) Combination of all three!
Comment by Hesiod — May 15, 2007 @ 8:13 am
In “Tricia Tanaka is Dead” we got the song “Shambala” by Three Dog Night stuck in our heads. I thought this might be a hint that the island was located deep within the Himilayas (Penny’s arctic Portuguese dudes would actually be located in a very high altitude as opposed to Antarctica). With all the shaking and volcano references in “The Man Behind the Curtain” I’m starting to wonder if it’s located deep within a dorment volcano. Perhaps there is a snow globe affect being used deep within a large mountain/volcano. It would explain food drops and Naomi, but the only explanation I can come up with for the crash landings would be that there is/was some sort of gateway that was maintained by the swan. Desmond’s failsafe would have put an end to that.
I really like the idea that the island is in another time. I think it would make for some real interesting story lines if we find out that DHARMA or Mittelos has finally made time travel a reality…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 15, 2007 @ 9:15 am
There is just no way they can make the island purgatory now. This may have been one of their original ideas, but as soon as everyone said it’s purgatory they would have had to go in a different direction. This coupled with the fact that they have refuted that claim so many times now means no purgatory. Now if we wanted to start talking metaphorically…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 15, 2007 @ 9:24 am
While it seems like Richard never aged, and I believe that is the case, it is possible that the long-haired “Richard” (who is never referred to by name) was not Richard at all, but his father. The timing could be right, if Richard was a little boy at that time, and was grown up during the purge. I think it’d be hard to swallow that he looks exactly like his dad with shorter hair, however no harder to swallow than Richard never aging. The “You do remember birthdays, don’t you” comment could be simply a smart-ass remark, and not an insinuation of “ageless”.
Comment by Brick — May 15, 2007 @ 10:35 am
Interesting theory…i mean, you are right ben is a master manipulator so we dont know what his real intentions are in many matters.
Not only that but at least Richard would know that Locke would seek out Sawyer in killing his dad, which would lead to the revelation of Juliet being a mole to the camp (Ben may be in on it too because he so freely told Locke about it and let him see and hear the tape). So, at least Richard, would know that the Losties would prepare for them (and Ben would too).
Its a win-win situation for him: Juliet can actually work with Ben to capture Sun, or (thanks to Richard, and Juliets hatred for him) he knows Juliets turned on him and can easily defeat the Losties because he knows what they would be doing
Comment by The Ghosts of the DHARMA Initiative — May 15, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
In response to the comment about how Jack was the only one away from the plane crash….what about Kate? If you watch the pilot, Kate is nowhere to be found until she mysteriously walks out of the jungle and stitches up Jack.
But I’m not too wild about this theory…I would feel really ripped off.
Comment by proppenator — May 15, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
and this would all bring about the two factions of others?
Comment by ian — May 16, 2007 @ 5:23 am
She could have lied about her D.O.C.
It was not on the island. Or she could be lieing about lieing…
Comment by BriteGuy — May 16, 2007 @ 9:39 am
that’s actually a really good theory, and it’s probably likely that that’s what it is.
but you know, lost is infamous for not being what you think it is.
Comment by Simone — May 16, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
I think that we HAVE to see someone betray the Losties.
The whole Lashade is the Cobra, has to have been important.
I think that who betrays them is a bit of the shocker in the finale. Who would it be? Was the whole Nikki/Paolo storyline a red herring? Maybe it was.
Comment by Blackrockbob — May 17, 2007 @ 9:34 am
In response to the question about Ben’s obsession with fertility on the island, I think it stems in part from the fact that his own mother died giving birth, which might somehow connect her to this island where all the women die giving birth or in pregnancy. In terms of ressurrecting/regenerating, maybe it’s to do with Jacob, but I would think also with his mother.
Hey, by the way, is there anyway Mikhail might be Jacob? He also apparently died - even the Others/hostiles thought so, and then managed to come back to life (Similar to what we all seem to presume will happen with Locke - and since Locke was the only one who could really hear Jacob, that implies a connection). And it could have been his (Mikhail’s) eye/profile seen in the rocking chair for those few frames….
OK, now that I’m on the whole re-birth/resurrection theme anyway, I’m going to throw this theory out there:
what if you have to die to have life on this island? Obviously I need to work this theory out a bit more, but think about it: all the mothers die, and people who seem to be dead come back stronger than before; and in the “real world,” Flight 815 actually has died…yeah, ok, that still needs some finetuning.
Comment by Dean K — May 17, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Firstly, u people are forgettingi that something has happened to Juliet on the island that made her turn from nice to a cold blood killer……what was it?????? i cant figure it out.
For the finale I think that Naoimi is definately a part of Dharma, but the present dharma run by Penny and her father. (the same people who sent the helicopter food) I think when locke pressed that button in the hatch recently Pennys Dharma realized finally that a “purge had happened.
It is CONFIRMED by lost that Penny’s dad is funder of Dharma, along with Sun’s DAD!
Comment by perseph — May 17, 2007 @ 11:52 am
I think Ben is accidentally killing the pregnant women on the island by forcing them (electronically) to have premature births. He is trying to show that he is not responsible for his mother’s death.
Comment by Bowser — May 18, 2007 @ 10:17 am
I think ben shot locke , because he got angry when locke disrespected jacob. No other reason. Although… locke taking the tape recorder without ben noticing, is very weird. Aaaaaaaand, I think the women in “The Looking Glass” are Dharma , ergo they will help Charlie/Desmond.
Comment by Euge — May 19, 2007 @ 12:36 am