The Locke / Ben Connection
So Ben and Locke have a huge connection. Both have mothers named Emily. Complete coincidence? I think not. When has a coincidence ever not held consequences on LOST?
So what do you guys think? Complete coincident? Is there something in the etymology of the name ‘Emily’ that binds these characters thematically? The highlight here really that both women left their sons orphans of a sort, inadvertently depriving them of a proper direction in life?
Think about their kidney connection as well. Locke LOST a kidney, Ben was held hostage by a wounded kidney. In the bible, Kidney’s symbolize many things but one of them is the organ which is examined by god to judge an individual.
Are these connections intentional? Or am I just becoming one of those over analytical geeks I like to chastise so much? (I AM one of those geeks, but don’t tell anybody.)
I posted this already, but just incase it was swallowed by posts and not read…..
LOCKE IS NOT DEAD…. and ill get to how i know this in a minute. 1st off, great episode (all but the house shaking because jacob doesnt like flash lights ((very gay)) ).
Ben can see and hear Jacob. Ben was shocked that Locke heard Jacob right before he walked out the door. Now Ben feels that Locke is a real threat, Ben was special because he was the only one who could hear and see Jacob, untill that is, Locke comes along and within a few minutes can even hear Jacob himself.
Now my theory on whats happening next…
Locke isn’t dead, did u notice where Ben shot him? Could have been a fatal wound to the Kidney right? Good thing Locke gave his Kidney away on his left side, huh? (see, everything does happen for a reason!) Now Jacob can help him, and heal Locke. Few episodes sooner then later, Locke returns, fully healed, now we have reasons for wanting Ben dead. Locke can take Ben’s place at Jacobs side. When everyone see’s that Locke has returned, he will have ALL of the others following him after that.
Ben, ur great, and ill miss u, but whoever shoots locke, ends up deaaadd..
To take it a step further… Ben shot him there on his left side where his kidney was removed because he knew the wound wouldnt be fatal, he also knew that if John really did hear jacob, and if jacob really thought John was special, then jacob would indeed heal him, if not, then Ben wins. Proving to not only the Others that he’s meant to be in charge, but also to himself.
Why Jacob needs help is very simple…
Put urself in Jacob’s shoes if u will.. Your a powerful “ghost” and noone can hear you or see you… But BEN! That means, everyone has to listen to Ben, because its considered Jacobs will, but is it really? What if after years of doing Jacobs will, ben decides whatever ben says can be considered Jacobs word… even if it isnt, who’s going to say other wise? No one… but John Locke….
Comment by Jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 7:36 am
The connections go much deeper. Both asked the then ”leader” of the others to take them with them, Locke asking Ben, Ben asking Richard. Both killed their father before joining the ranks. I think the reason Ben killed Locke is because Locke is going down a path very similar to Ben’s own, and Ben is scared that Richard, Tom, et al (notice they didn’t listen to Ben when he told them to stop Locke attacking Mikhail) make Locke their leader above Ben. Obviously Richard once had more power than Ben, so the leadership of the group must be organic.
Maybe Locke hearing Jacob cemented in Ben’s mind the chance that the Others would prefer Locke to him, maybe it showed Locke has a greater ‘communion’ with the island than Ben had (Richard realised Ben’s ‘communion’ this when Ben said he seen his dead mother on the island.
It is completely definete that there are strong parallels between Ben and Locke.
Comment by Neil — May 10, 2007 @ 7:46 am
they also both had purposeful hand in contributing to their fathers deaths on the island.
Comment by solomonk9 — May 10, 2007 @ 7:47 am
Further, with all these STAR WARS analogies flying around recently, maybe a person’s communion with the island is much like ‘the force’, stronger in some than in others, the ability to see and hear Jacob, being the pinnacle of that ability.
Comment by Neil — May 10, 2007 @ 7:50 am
I’ve heard some crazy theories on all these different boards, but 1 jumped out at me last night as I watched the “Ultra Powerful” Jacob asking Locke for help was the one about the island being the home to Djinn or Genies if you will. It would explain the ruins…where the islands original inhabitants would have worshipped them and it would explain what we’ve seen from smokey, Locke’s different vision ‘of the island’ then anyone else (He said he looked into the face of the island and it was beautiful). Sounds crazy and kinda cheesy…but it fits. I think last nights episode just goes along with the real mythology of djinns…before Disney got a hold of it…
Comment by Moose — May 10, 2007 @ 7:53 am
Just a quick thought….I have been under the impression that Ben had some problems with Jacob. I mean, apparently Jacob can cure cancer-but Ben still had it, and was none to happy to learn that. If Jacob and Ben were tight, then why would he allow Ben to suffer, and possibly die from something that he had proven to be able to cure. (by curing Juliet’s sister.) Also, The line of sand that Locke sees in The Man Behind The Curtain, I was thinking that it was probably gun powder. And Locke knows it. Possibly Danielle’s doing, and she’s going to ignite the dynamite and blow up the others. It has to do something with her. She made too obvious of an appearance in The Brig with the dynamite for it to be coincidental
Comment by 80sKatie — May 10, 2007 @ 8:06 am
The promise for Ben is that he will be reunited with his mother. This is why he killed (?) Locke. Interestingly enough, Locke’s journey is to escape his need of parental bonding. Both are advancing through the island’s maze of supernatural infusions with entirely screwed up child-hoods, equally obsessed with ‘repairing’ themselves. For Ben, as stated, it is getting his mother back. For Locke it is, as far as we know, rising above the need.
Comment by DocArzt — May 10, 2007 @ 8:07 am
Gun powder will not explode unless it is packed tightly. It would just burn up the way it’s placed around the house. I think Ben is using whatever that substance is to trap Jacob.
Comment by GMoney — May 10, 2007 @ 8:17 am
I posted this elsewhere but…
Ben cannot hear Jacob any longer. That is why he had to ask locke what jacob said. Ben has been pretending for a long time to Richard and the others that he can still hear Jacob. Richard must have also once been able to hear Jacob and had to concede leadership to Ben when Ben was able to hear and see him.
That is also why BEN got CANCER, because Jacob was no longer speaking or healing ben. Once ben got cancer, RICHARD figured out that Ben may no longer have his powers with jacob, and so assisted Locke by giving him the folder.
Ben lost the ability to hear jacob a long time ago but was pretending to, and figured out a way to keep him isolated in the house (perhaps with the black dust that Locke saw that may be the “monster” dust granules that get activated)Or some other way.
There are only a few real indigenous “hostiles”, most others are recruited.
Locke will heal, because his bite mark healed. Ben may think Locke won’t heal because he killed his father and will be “punished” by jacob for that, but he doesn’t know that Locke did not kill his father.
Locke is now aware that the Ben and Richard and other Hostiles are evil.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 10, 2007 @ 8:18 am
I think the whole point of the episode was to show how Locke and Ben are on the same path (or, more precisely, how Locke is on the same path that Ben was on). Ben feels threatened by Locke, since he can hear Jacob.
A few thoughts: Locke is always wrong (wheras, Sayid is always right). I find this interesting, but Locke always has the wrong instinct about what to do in a situation, whether someone is telling the truth, etc.
In the Jewish tradition, the kidneys were the seat of the intellect (of decision making). Locke is missing one, which might be why he makes bad decisions.
I’ll be posting more on blog…things are getting good!
Comment by Greg — May 10, 2007 @ 8:18 am
“In the Jewish tradition, the kidneys were the seat of the intellect (of decision making). Locke is missing one, which might be why he makes bad decisions.”
I think Locke losing his kindey is in fact what is going to save his life… He was shot in the same side he lost his kidney on. Since the kidney isnt there, the bullet didnt hit it, now its just a gut shot, jacob will take care of that.
Comment by Jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 8:23 am
Loving that analysis!
Comment by docarzt — May 10, 2007 @ 8:29 am
80’s Katie, I agree with you.
Seems to be definite gun powder and I’m sure we’ll see that come into play in the finale.
Also, no one is talking about the obvious ageing effects this island seems to have. Alpert hasn’t aged a day and Ben seems to be ageing faster than others. Is immortality another theme to be looked at? Another observation that may or may not be important is the clothes people are wearing. Ben, Richard, and Juliette all wear nice modern digs, while the others wear rags, why?
thats all my brain can handle right now.
Comment by supa — May 10, 2007 @ 8:35 am
I think the dust around Jacob’s house is volcanic ash, hinted at in the flashback that the island had a volcanic eruption a long time ago.
I believe Locke is not dead; and I also agree Locke’s life will probably be saved because Ben shot him where his kidney WOULD have been.
The scene with young Ben and Richard was brilliant.
Comment by Ralph — May 10, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Ben and Locke are not brothers. Carlton Cuse almost fell out of his chair laughing at the same suggestion on a recent podcast because he thought the question was so ridiculous.
Comment by Ralph — May 10, 2007 @ 8:36 am
what I have to say is based off of this:
There is a species of humans that existed on the island that age slower and heal faster due to a communion that they have with the island [fullbloods].
There is a species of humans, like you and I, who age and heal “normally” [normals] even when on the island.
There is a species of humans who were created by fullbloods who left the communion/benefits of the island and mated with “normals” [mutts]. Mutts have the capabilities to heal while in communion with the island, but due to their “normal” genetic half lost the ability to age slower.
Fullbloods can mate with fullbloods while on the island.
Fullbloods can not mate with normals or mutts while on the island.
The Fullbloods are looking for a way to perpetuate their species on the island with normals/mutts in the hopes that if the child were born a mutt while ON the island they would not have the genetic disposition of mutts born in the outside world [i.e. short age].
They are doing this b/c the last female Fullblood to NOT leave the island has become a militant rogue.
I don’t know….just a few thoughts.
Maybe Emily was a Fullblood who left the island…maybe Locke has more genetic disposition than Ben. Maybe Jacob left the island once to fool around with some normals…a la Zeus…and Locke’s his kid…who knows
again, just some thoughts
Comment by kirch — May 10, 2007 @ 8:40 am
Not going into explanation but I think/hope it’s clear Locke is on the right/good path.
Comment by cekma — May 10, 2007 @ 8:44 am
Anybody see Evangaline on Kimmel last night? God is great.
Comment by supa — May 10, 2007 @ 8:50 am
Is it me or did the lantern fall onto the cabin floor and break open causing a fire when the place was shaking? Cause after Ben walks out where Locke is waiting after he ran out the lantern is in one piece and there’s no fire in the cabin. And ghost or not, how does Jacob cause the earth to quake? Didn’t an earthquake/tremor precede the gun fight in Ben’s flashback when he was at school?
Comment by boombalonga — May 10, 2007 @ 8:50 am
I think the circle (of ash, or of some mineral salt?) is a binding circle used to keep spirits trapped within it. Maybe Jacob is asking for Locke’s help to break the circle so that he can move on, or do whatever he originally intended to do?
Comment by Ian — May 10, 2007 @ 8:53 am
Could Emily be Rousseau perhaps? Or does that not make any sense. Also how come nobody is talking about alex, and the fact that she knew to give locke a gun?
Comment by anonymous — May 10, 2007 @ 8:53 am
i really like this kirch…. that cud b why Claire was able to give birth on the island and the fact that Sun will live past her second trimester
Comment by tom — May 10, 2007 @ 9:01 am
the gun that Alex gave John may of been for Ben.. he does like his mind games
Comment by chris — May 10, 2007 @ 9:04 am
The gun clearly wasn’t for Ben, Alex doesn’t seem to like Ben all that much, and Ben seemed completely confused by the fact that she gave it to Locke. Did Alex know that Ben was going to attempt to kill Locke because she knew that Locke would hear the voice of Jacob? And hence Ben’s confusion? Or maybe just because Ben was humiliated by Locke’s outburst amongst the others, alex knew ben would try to kill locke. This does seem somewhat significant though.
Comment by anonymous — May 10, 2007 @ 9:07 am
So far everyone shot in the stomach has died…but I like the kidney idea.
There is a HUGE section of Ben’s backstory missing…I can understand his hatred of his father, but he obviously knew all of Dharma was going to be gassed. Me thinks it has something to do with his girlfriend…maybe he got her preggers and she croaked? Hope we get another Ben flashback sometime.
How come no one is wondering about Dharma? What happened to the off island people? Has Ben been playing a ruse that Dharma was still going? That would explain why Richard was able to recruit more people and leave the island. Still waiting for the fallout from Locke blowing the shack…Dharma must’ve gotten a message…will they send people?
Comment by John — May 10, 2007 @ 9:27 am
I just found this info at this link
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000830.htm
Benjamin was the last born of Israel’s twelve sons (see Children of Jacob), the younger of the two children by Rachel (Genesis 35:24). He was born on the road between Bethlehem and Bethel, the only of Jacob’s sons to be born in what is today Israel. Tragically, Rachel died in giving him birth (Genesis 35:16-20). Her last words were to name the infant Benoni, meaning son of my sorrow, which was changed by Jacob to Benjamin, meaning son of my right hand. Rachel’s tomb near Bethlehem is shown in the photograph.
Comment by David — May 10, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Yes. Those are all accurate and great observations. The lantern did fall on break, then Ben returned it intact.
I can’t tell you how many time I have seen the cabin scene now. But there are definitely 3 sets of eyes that were focused on.
Ben, facing Jacob the turning right.
Jacob (possibly), facing Ben turning left. (or Locke meeting Ben’s eyes)
Locke, looking to get the hell out of there.
There is a look from Ben after Jacob is exposed where Ben himself seems surprised to see Jacob.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 10, 2007 @ 9:49 am
Was it coincidence that a DHARMA couple came along when Ben’s parents needed helped at the roadside?
And also that Ben came prematurely?
Comment by lostjunkie — May 10, 2007 @ 9:53 am
The parachute girl is a spy from The Dharma Initiative, and someone else was with her….it’s only a matter of time before T.D.I. sends a small army to put the balance back in their Facilities.
Comment by matt — May 10, 2007 @ 10:02 am
From TVguide…
Wednesday, May 23, 9 pm/ET, ABC
In the two-hour season finale, Lost viewers will definitely get some answers, with the help of Jack’s (Matthew Fox) flashback, a changed Locke and a long-awaited showdown that will determine a significant outcome for the future of the castaways.
http://www.tvguide.com/special/FinaleFever2007/may21-29-2.aspx
So Locke lives!
Comment by 108inIowa — May 10, 2007 @ 10:27 am
I think theres a definite connection. Both as you say had mothers named Emily (and we know how important names are on this show) and both had father issues. Both men had to murder there father for acceptance into the same group (The hostiles/others). One was healed by the island after losing the ability to walk and one seemed to be scorned by the island and lost the ability to walk.
The relationship between the two (especially after last nights episode) reminds me of two brothers vying for the attention of a father (Jacob). This was the primary motivation for Ben to shoot Locke. Locke heard Jacob. Up until that point I believe only Ben had heard/seen him. Ben did it out of simple jealousy and him wanting to be the sole communicator with Jacob. This also leads me to believe that Ben has somehow trapped Jacob (hence the “help me).
Comment by Dan — May 10, 2007 @ 10:48 am
Good point, about Ben and Locke vying for the attention of Jacob and the biblical connection . Especially considering Ben threw the favored child Locke in this show and Joseph in the Biblical narrative, into a pit and left him for dead. And considering that Ben-jamin was one of the brothers who threw joseph in the pit out of jealousy. If only Locke was named Joseph, this analogy would work perfectly!
Comment by anonymous — May 10, 2007 @ 11:11 am
The circle of ash/powder/brick sure looked like a way to keep a demon trapped within its circle to me. Common theme in many mythologies.
Comment by dkeefeboston — May 10, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Another thing …. Desmond seems to me to be the biblical Joseph, he of the infamous multicolored coat (remember when Hurley gave D that gnarley tie-dye?). Joseph is thrown into a PIT by his brothers. Seems to me something similar happened to Locke. Was Desmond the one destined for that pit? Has he altered the thread of the current reality by saving Charlie from the arrow in the throat??? Hmmmmmm………..
Comment by dkeefeboston — May 10, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Identity of the Monster.
I apologize if someone made this crazy connection first. If Jacob was human at one time, and transformed to his current state by the power of the island…? Is it also possible that the island evolved his dog(the picture on the wall)into what we all now call the black smoke monster?
Discuss
-C
Comment by Chris — May 10, 2007 @ 11:15 am
i like the idea that ben cannot hear jacob anymore but has been pretending to and now the hostiles are catchin on and lookin for a new leader.
methinks maybe jacob has some daddy issues, therefore maybe closing communications with ben after he murders his father.
realising this, ben tries to prevent lockes communication with jacob by geting locke to kill his father, and thinks he has succeeded when taking locke to see jacob. locke has not himself killed cooper however and therefore still retains the power to speak to jacob, much to bens fury.
dunno, its a pretty sketchy theory but it makes a little bit of sense
also, we know annie wasnt just a random guest character, surely there must be some significance to her, lets consider the options:
A) she died giving birth to bens child.
-this would mean ben would have a child, the only real contenders being karl and alex
-karl seems more likely as alex is supposedly rousseau’s daughter (despite calling him dad)
B) Annie is still alive an kickin’.
-if so who is she? did she go mad, run off into the jungle and develop a french accent?
-and why did they never concieve? fear? maybe ben is sterile?
im sleepy
Comment by mandy — May 10, 2007 @ 11:17 am
What if Locke is, dead?? man im really going to miss the baldie head…
by the way what if, they are all dead? i mean i keep going on about this and i dont even like the sound of this pseudotheory but lets face it ghosts have suddenly become very real…
by the way why hasnt Richard aged?.. -still fancy him
This Locke thing dying is not good for my revision, i have my finals on monday and i will be only looking forward to lost instead of finishing uni aah!!!!
Comment by OxfordAngel — May 10, 2007 @ 11:20 am
Honestly, the biblical connections, I think are intentional but don’t explain much more then the obvious. I think that the whole throwing Locke in the pit thing by Ben is clearly intentional to show that Locke is the favored “child” of Jacob and Ben is jealous. Nothing more then that though. I don’t think it has any implications as to Desmond being the true Joseph.
Comment by Anonymous — May 10, 2007 @ 11:20 am
It doesn’t matter either way we found fck all out about jacob, great dodging there we won’t show him nor not show theres not something!
Comment by nickk — May 10, 2007 @ 11:25 am
Think about the Locke and Ben connection it is almost starting to look like to story of Cain and Able.
Comment by Scott — May 10, 2007 @ 11:39 am
Who says Jacob was asking Locke for help? It could be that, just like with all the other time/space anomalies on the show lately, that Jacob merely offered Locke an audible glimpse into his own future. That whispered gravelly “Help Me” may have been Locke’s own voice from “the future,” in the Purge Pit (TM).
Comment by Vex Machine — May 10, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Emily = My Lie
Comment by midgetsaspets — May 10, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Is the pregnancy problem a manifestation of ben’s will? didn’t richard or someone say it was just a distraction from the real ‘mission’ or whatever?
Like the way Walt could make things happen. Young Ben reminds me a lot of young walt. And notice how Richard was very interested in ben. It was RICHARD who asked BEN if he SAW his mother. Richard definitely had some kind of expectations or knowledge about what really happened to young ben. and so you can see in Richard’s eyes that he thinks ben is ’special’. But now that’s the same look he’s giving locke. Or maybe he’s just gay… (joke)
Comment by Drakoi — May 10, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
HawaiiHeaven, I think you’re on to something. Richard was so obviously not much younger looking in Ben’s flashback — the producers can’t possibly have expected that we could suspend so much disbelief in terms of the passage of time. It’s not like there’s Dharma Just for Men hair dye!
I think it supports the slower-aging hypothesis.
Comment by kkty — May 10, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
LOCKE IS NOT DEAD wanna no how i no this is a quote from damon ”Locke will hear two words tonight,” says Lindelof. ”Those words, and the fact that he hears them, will change his course on the island forever.”
if he was dead what would be the point in damon saying that
Comment by steve — May 10, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
“by the way why hasnt Richard aged?.. -still fancy him” –OxfordAngel
I keep thinking the same thing! Both comments hehe. I love him and I’ll be happy if he never grows old but hey? How’s he do it? Does he have a good mousturizer and hairdye? I think he’s going to become a lot more important as the show goes on… Possibly replacing Ben as our most prominant other when Locke kills Ben…(If?) Or possibly killing Ben himself after finding out that Locke has been killed by Ben.
Comment by Brown — May 10, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
“LOCKE IS NOT DEAD wanna no how i no this is a quote from damon ”Locke will hear two words tonight,” says Lindelof. ”Those words, and the fact that he hears them, will change his course on the island forever.”
if he was dead what would be the point in damon saying that ”
I think if Locke died, that would drastically change his course on the island :). I actually think he’ll survive, but death would definitely lead him down a different path than if he were alive
Comment by bheat23 — May 10, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Another connection between locke and ben is as fallows:
Boone visits Locke and tells him not to worry (in reference to not being able to speak) and tells him he will speak when he has something worth saying. Ben arrives on the island and as he and his father are being welcomed his father comments that he hasnt been speaking…the crazy hippie guy says im sure he will tlak when he has something to say.
Also in the bible, Benjamens mother rachel gives birth on the side of the road and dies from pregnancy. She also names her son in her last breaths.
Comment by jerdrew — May 10, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
if we’re going to go with the biblical illusions, while there’s obviously a father-son thing going on, there’s also a brother-brother thing. maybe jacob had daddy issues, i don’t know, but don’t forget that the most famous jacob story is the jacob-esau story, in which jacob and rebecca (his mom) trick esau (hairy red twin brother) and isaac, into stealing esau’s birthright for jacob. although it was god’s will, they had to go about it by dubious means. can any of you creative people extrapolate a theory out of this?
Comment by hey — May 10, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
I think the black powder being volcanic ash is a great idea. I think thats what was significant about showing Ben learning about eruptions in class rather than say geometry. Which brings it down to how big was the volcanic eruption on the island years ago??? did it destroy the original four toed people?? Is that what made the ruins? I think that alpret is one of 3 things either slave/crew member of BLACK ROCK. Or he originally came to the island with Darma, when they were building all of the hatches, before ben, and was a test subject for the psycological and life extension programs!CONNECTED TO JOOP!!!!!!!! Or Richard Alpret is infact an ASIM as doctor marvin candle referred. I dont think that Richard is a native.
The natives were probobly all wiped out in the vulcanic cataclysm long ago. Perhaps seperated the large island into a bigger and a smaller!! Perhaps even caused SMOKEY???? Or is Smokey the native that they were keeping out????? the fence’s intention?????SOOOO MANY QUIESTIONS!!!! but i belive the black rock holds answers to a lot of them.
Comment by ledio — May 10, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
I am going with the Jacob Esau theory. Like I said before on the other topic board. I believe Jacob is Jack’s father. Remember how he would appear on the island? Jack also has issues with his father. The still shot of Jacob looks an awful lot like Jacks father.
Comment by Deb — May 10, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
I dont wanna seem obsessed (one post after another) but going back and reading some other peoples theorys about Naomi being a spy for D.H.A.R.M.A. wasnt the dharma initiative completely shut down after the incident??
I think it was something like 1987 when the last wing of D.H.A.R.M.A. was shut down. Besideds that Hanzo is no longer the cutthroat tycoon, he doesnt even run Hanzo foundation anymore.
P.S.: werent we going to see doctor marvin candle alive and well on the island in “The Man Behind The Curtain”??? thats what i read online so i was a bit disappointed in that matter.
Comment by Ledio — May 10, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Dude you shouldn’t call something “gay” in a derogatory sense. And it wasn’t that Jacob didn’t like flashlights. Ben said, “Jacob has the same disdain for technology as you do.” (talking to Locke)
Comment by Tukachen — May 10, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
Yeah and for god’s sake, don’t ever say something is ’stupid’ either, or all the idiots in the world will get really really mad.
Comment by docarzt — May 10, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
Richard Alpert is totally hot, its all about that smooooth voice and the suave style going on WOOOOAAAH!
Comment by OxfordAngel — May 10, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
on to more serious things:
BAD FATHERING FOR BEGGINERS:
1.Jacks -Alcoholic
2.Lockes -Conn man, murdered, wanker all the way
3.Bens -sour bastard, alcoholic
4.Kates -step dad, alcoholic, woman beater
5.Aaron (claire’s baby) ran away from responsibility
6.Claire -(Jacks) never introduced himself
7.Hurley -Totally abandoned and gave him, chocolate
8.Sawyer -Killed his mother and killed himself
9.Suns -Controlling, cold, calculating, gangster
10.Alex -real dad got sick and Russeau had to do him 10.1 Alex -step dad, Ben -unintentionaly but still bad father
11.Penny -Mr whitmoore, supperiority complex
Comment by OxfordAngel — May 10, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
seriously, I bet the combined therapy bills for the writing staff must be huge!!! Oedipus anyone?
Comment by Drakoi — May 10, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
Did you notice the flash between Locke and Ben right after Ben shoots Locke? Their faces flash back and forth realy quickly. My wife said, “Maybe it’s like they are the same, but the good and the bad” Remember way….. back to when Locke was playing chess with Walt and he explained that in eveything there is a black and a white, good and evil.
Comment by MacPhisto — May 10, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
Well, we have also been neglecting Ben and Locke’s great romantic loves.
Locke had a great romantic love that was ruined by his obsession with his father.
We don’t get to see the resolution of Ben and Anne’s relationship. I would bet that they had a teen romance. Did they have a daughter? Is that alex? Was Ben forced to sacrifice Annie in the purge? Did Ben have to lose Annie but get to keep Alex?
OR did Richard Kidnap Alex in the jungle for Ben as a consolation for having to sacrifice a pregnant Annie?
So, Besides Fathers and Patricide, losing Great Loves is also a big Theme (see Locke, Ben, Jack, Desmond, Kate, Sayid)
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 10, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Did anyone notice Richard’s clothing during his first meeting with Ben in the jungle, seemed like something a…pirate might wear…
Don’t believe me, anyone that has it on DVR or video, roll it back and think about it…
The volcanic ash/spiritual boundary line outside Jacob’s shack, both theories are great, but I think the boundary one holds a little more weight. Although I do think the whole volcano part was extremely significant, I think that will play in more to Season 4, and the RUINS.
The reason Ben was so angry as to kill Locke after their experience with Jacob is something interesting to explore. I do think Ben may not be able to hear Jacob anymore, and has been pretending. The fact that he got cancer as a result of this, and Alpert growing closer to Locke are important keys to this theory. As is Ben asking Locke what Jacob had said.
Ben most definitely sees Locke as someone who can diminish and/or deprive him of his power over the Others, due to the fact that Locke is special, and can hear Jacob when Ben either cannot, or has been the only one who can for a long time.
Kinda pissed the way they copped out on Jacob, but I read a spoiler somewhere (maybe even here lol) that said they had not cast Jacob yet, and the crew were done shooting for the season, so I thought something was up there…
I never even thought about the kidney shot before. It’s pretty damn perfect, and something did stick in the back of my head that if Ben did really want Locke dead, he would have done it a bit more definitively. I don’t wanna roll back up to get the name, but someone posted about Ben wanting to see if Jacob would save Locke, to see if Locke was special, and to also see if he was the true leader of the Others. Damn good theory.
After seeing the ep, and Ben’s flashback, I thought there was a large chunk in the middle, and obviously afterwards that was skipped over in Ben’s life, and he wasn’t going to die b/c there was so much, Annie’s fate for instance, to tell.
But after reading these posts, I think Locke killing Ben and taking his place as leader of the Others, and Jacob’s sidekick, is the most likely scenario. Which of course, sucks really hard as Ben is probably my third favorite cast member outside of Locke and Desmond.
Damn you Darlton, Kill Jack Instead!!! *shaking fist*
and BTW, no goddamn way is Locke dead…he is THE character on this show, the one everything revolves around and the one that will eventually play the only role that matters in the end. Jack may have the most flashbacks, but Locke is that Dark Horse, the one you know is there, but don’t REALLY see until the finish line is in sight…
Comment by Revolution — May 10, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
This is exactly what I was thinking. The DHARMA couple just happen to show up at the right time. Ben was born prematurely or was he? Is that just what Emily told Roger. Maybe she was pregnant before she met or married Roger by someone from the island. Maybe DHARMA people knew about infertility and sent someone from the island or maybe as you said, Emily was from the island and was sent away to give birth. Also Ben seemed to have some sort of feelings for Mr. Goodspeed (closing his eyes after the gas attack) or whatever his name was-the one who was there when he was born, recruited Roger to island, etc. Any other ideas? Maybe Ben was actually conceived on the island. Just a thought.
Comment by mrssayid — May 10, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Sorry- have to reply to the kidney comments… John was hit in the left upper quadrant of the abdomen. The spleen and intestines sit there, and maybe even the inferior part of the left lung, but it would have missed the kidney by a mile… in anatomical terms. Appreciate the symbolism and attention to detail. May even be what they are going for on the show, but in reality the bullet would have lacerated his spleen and bowel, maybe caused a hemothorax, and he would have died from massive bleeding into the abdomen.
Comment by doc pedro — May 10, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
My previous post was in response to lostjunkie.
Also another thought. I can’t remember if it was here or on another site-about the eye in the scene with locke, ben and jacob, but it looked like Desmond’s eyes. Maybe Desmond was there having a vision or something like that. Any thoughts?
Comment by mrssayid — May 10, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Sorry again- for the record, I think Locke will definitely live… Just not because he gave up his left kidney.
Peace
Comment by doc pedro — May 10, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
Ya- the old brown eye. i posted this in another section, but did anyone notice the brown eye in the cabin? Locke’s and Ben’s are blue…Not speculating in whose it is, but it is definitely not an old and future Locke.
Comment by doc pedro — May 10, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Did anyone else realize that when Ben was having his conversation with Jacob, supposedly Jacob said something to Ben that made Ben almsot say SAWYER!!!!111
Jacob knows that Sawyer killed John’s father.
Comment by Boss — May 10, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
Does anyone think Jacob looks like Mr. Eko, just something i caught in the picture? Also someone said that Ben could not her Jacob, but when they first got to the cabin Ben was aguing with Jacob, remember he told him to be quiet so he could hear what Locke was saying.
Comment by suz — May 10, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
Not a single mention of the fact that Ben, like his dad was just a workman. This to me was huge. Ben is not a scientist, genuis, natual leader, well educated or normal human being. He has some really big self-esteem issues. These stem not only from his dad blaming him for this mothers death but also because he isn’t qualified to lead anybody. This explains his method of leadership, which is manipulation. He feels so incompetent he thinks he has to set people up to get things done instead of leading them by explaination, rationalization and derivative logic.
Because of this insecurity, Ben clearly sees Locke as a threat to his leadership role. Locke’s personality change (pasive to authoritative) has driven Ben into insanity, so he shot him. Which, as we all know, is going to be very bad knews for Ben. Ben may even have known Locke wouldn’t die but based on Locke’s inability to kill his father, Ben figured Locke would be humble and easier to control. Basically what I am saying is we are going to see a whole new Locke when he comes back.
On the “stretch the beleivability” level, that was some powerfull gas to have killed the town guys all the way from the ‘mesa’ (where the mini bus was found). That is a full days walk away if I remember right (or at least an half day walk). I know of no gas that could kill from that distance as the dissipation factors would make it virtually disapear over that long a distance. Of course the Richard gang could have opened a can locally in the “town”.
Comment by dug — May 11, 2007 @ 5:27 am
Yes, I like the idea maybe Ben was concieved on the island, and to tie into the Locke/Ben connection, maybe Locke was conceived on the island also? We know he was an orphan, and we know that Hanso went looking for his grandfather in the 50s (if I have my facts right) and found the Black Rock. Maybe there is some Hanso/Locke/Ben connections?
And if people really do age slower on the island then the same Emily could be both Ben and Locke’s mom? Just throwing it out there…
Comment by lostjunkie — May 11, 2007 @ 6:52 am
What’s up… first time poster, long time reader.
Something to consider: you’ll notice that there have been a few spiritual journeys on this island (especially with Locke and those that surround him) that are of the psychedelic sort. Remember Boone’s trip after the grey paste was applied to his head wound, and also Locke’s sweat lodge trip which came about from the same grey paste.
What if the ring of powder around Jacob’s cabin was the same paste (Locke got it on his fingers and took a nice big whiff of it before entering the cabin)? What if the whole experience was hallucinated? This would explain why the fire from the lamp disappeared and would also explain why the lamp wasn’t broken. It would also explain why after Locke saw the building shake, and heard and saw Jacob he still didn’t believe it was real (given his experience with the substance).
You’ll also remember too, that after Boone’s trip on the drug, Locke was only focused on what the island had showed him after the trip. This lends to Ben questioning Locke so adamantly about what Jacob said to Locke (Jacob=The Island).
Ben has a tenuous hold on his camp and saw that Locke would be taking over soon. The whole Jacob trip was designed to get Lockes insight into the island, and of course set him up for the kill… or at least a wounding. Ben may still be trying to teach Locke a lesson. Ben saying ‘Let’s see if Jacob helps you now’ was said in a very sarcastic way… as if Ben knows that a man named Jacob is just a construct. Ben shooting Locke was a way for him to show him that he was not to be trifled with, and instead of Locke trying to learn more or take over… maybe he should just follow Ben.
This comment may just get buried in this article so I’m going to post it in a few other spots.
Now, much like Coffee Talk, I invite you to discuss.
Comment by Albert — May 11, 2007 @ 7:39 am
I think that someone is on to something. Richard was wearing pirate clothes. Didn’t Locke take Sawyer and his father to the slave ship??? Also - rewind to the beach when that lady talk to Walt(season 2) - she had a carribean accent - where some of the slave were captured and brought to the Americas? I am I reaching?
Comment by LaLa — May 11, 2007 @ 7:55 am
New reader but I’m so Lost obsessed I’ve been jumping around to a lot of sites because I can’t seem to get enough of Lost. Wanted to share something I heard somewhere else and that is that Kate is actually Annie. I know. I know. Most of you will probably jump all over this and smack it down but before you do think about it a little bit. Remember time reeks havok on people on this island - they either age really fast or the age process slows down at a certain leval such as with Richard. In a past episode Kate told the farmer her name was Annie. I know she uses a lot of alias but it is something to think about. And remember when they were captured by Ben and he put her in that pretty dress and they shared a breakfast together. They never really showed us what happened between them. Yes, it’s probably farfetched but on a show like this any theory is possible. Okay everyone, let me have it but don’t use the age excuse because on this show that just doesn’t work. So have at it!
Comment by candytopaz — May 11, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Pirates?
mm.. interesting, yes Alperts clothes seemed a little odd, either hippie (come on the timing is adequate ) pr pirates yes
but i think if you look at the freeze frame (not the fake one, the dark one) you kind of make out a monkey shape on the shoulder of jacob… very strange indeed..
feeling the pirate theory…
Comment by OxfordAngel — May 11, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
i know im going to sound really stupid for asking this question but i have to ask as the state my minds in from all this has made me go a bit dumb …
i don’t get the “Ben was held hostage by a wounded kidney” statement. can someone make me see sense and tell me what that meant? i know its not a real wounded kidney that was holding him hostage, although the image I’ve got in my mind of a wounded kidney with a gun is quite funny ..
please don’t abuse me for asking
Comment by eve — May 12, 2007 @ 9:26 am
if no one else has ever talked to Jacob, then why would danielle know that Locke would need a gun to go visit him. I guess she was wrong, because you cant really shoot a ghost, but how would she even think she knew anything about Jacob.
Comment by kd — May 12, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
oops. i meant alex in the previous post, not danielle.
Comment by kd — May 12, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
i think people are forgetting a HUGE connection between ben and another of our losties.
ben was a worker with the dharma initiative….but he joined the hostiles
he now acts as their leader even though he was taken in by them
‘he walks among them but he is not one of them’
i believe we know a man with a tattoo that says similar
thoughts?
Comment by mandy — May 14, 2007 @ 9:07 am
i love the LOL*Lost image with this post, reminds me of http://lollost.blogspot.com/
Comment by nadia — May 17, 2007 @ 3:55 pm