Numerology Of The Man Behind The Curtain
Do I need to tell you that numbers were important in last night’s episode? Particularly the number six. Six in numerology means imperfection. In the bible, however, Jesus had six jars filled with water and turned them to wine. Of the six jars in Jacob’s window, four of them indeed look turned to wine, the other two look kinda like they have pee in them.
Maybe Jacob likes Jam and Marmalade.
Comment by Eddie — May 10, 2007 @ 9:04 am
Am I the only one who sees a solid in the jars? Fetus, anyone?
Comment by DZAZ99 — May 10, 2007 @ 9:05 am
if there is a fetus in that jar then cough carnivale rip off! cough
Comment by cekma — May 10, 2007 @ 9:07 am
u know what doesnt make sense is that if richard was leader of the others before ben then who did he report to? jacob? if like ben said richard has never met jacob then ben must have made him up , remember the black box metaphor? that sand stuff on the ground looked like some sort of border maybe thats the edge of this black box thing ben talks about lol ,maybe im just confused lol feel free to ridicule this post
Comment by thomas muir — May 10, 2007 @ 9:12 am
The REAL question…how many toes does Richard have?
Comment by John — May 10, 2007 @ 9:28 am
Well… what if Jacob was thirsty? He turned all six into wine originally and then drank two, peed in the empty jars… so the real trick is going to be turning pee back into wine. C’mon Jacob, let’s see you do that!
Comment by Wayne — May 10, 2007 @ 9:35 am
To me it looks like Jacob uses jars instead of toilets. He does seem kinda paranoid about stuff - lights, electricity. Maybe he is also afraid of plumbing and leaving his remains out in the wilderness.
I don’t think Richard was the leader of the Hostiles/Others. I think he just happened to find Ben out there and sort of became his contact and maybe mentor.
But what makes Ben more special than the others that he gets to talk to Jacob? And why did Locke have to kill his father to gain status? Don’t these tie together? Ben killed his own father who happened to hate him and emotionally abuse him. And then Locke “killed” his own father and gained status with the Others. Pretty much everybody on the show has parent problems, but these two took care of it in a big way. How is this connection important? Is it important to Jacob?
Comment by AnotherOther — May 10, 2007 @ 9:46 am
If Jacob’s pee is really that color, he may want to see a doctor about more than just being a technophobe.
Comment by Stefanie — May 10, 2007 @ 9:47 am
The jars remind me of Marguerite’s jars in Anne Rice’s book “The Witching Hour.”
Jacob is a disembodied Taltos, trying to figure out a way into the world?
Comment by coffeecupkat — May 10, 2007 @ 9:51 am
This is not right but the numbers fit. The four red jars could represent the number of Losties killed in some way by other Losties. Boone(Locke persuaded him to go in the plane), Shannon (shot by Anna), Anna and Libby (shot by Michael). The other two yellow jars represent Nikki and Paulo who were killed by the other Losties but it was not intentional as they were burried alive. Wrong, but I had to put something to this as it seems important given how the camera showed a clear shot of these jars.
Comment by bdub — May 10, 2007 @ 9:52 am
Why is Kate considered bad and flawed by them for doing the same thing.
Comment by H20 — May 10, 2007 @ 10:12 am
Hey this just came to me when you guys where talking about the paraelles between Ben and Locke. Ben killed his own dad but Locke had to have someone else do it and that might be why he could not see Jacob. Just a thought
Comment by Scott — May 10, 2007 @ 10:16 am
they look more like candles to me… Look at the way its shaped into the Jar. .. not really liquid like… more Waxish.
Comment by jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Maybe they’re chemicals used to make smokey.
Comment by lostlover — May 10, 2007 @ 10:21 am
Hey! Considering the Ben/Locke connection, could there be kidneys in these jars??? I think there could be…
Comment by Sara — May 10, 2007 @ 10:26 am
Has anyone else taken the screen cap of Jacob and covered up the wig? It looks an awful lot like Locke. I’m thinking maybe Jacob is a Jesus-like figure to the inhabitants of the island and Locke embodies the return of Jacob. Just look at how everybody in the Other’s crew looks at him. They know he’s special somehow, however Ben says “he’s not who we thought he was” or something to that effect. Just speculation, but that would be pretty wild.
Comment by cabes — May 10, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Actually, according to Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans, 6 represented perfection. A number is considered “perfect” if the sum of the factors of the number (not including the number itself) add up to the number. Ex: factors of 6 are 3, 2, 1 and 3+2+1=6. That’s why the bible writes that god created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th.
Comment by Dean — May 10, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Anyone catch the number code for turning off the fences that they were given last night? I think it was something like 53349. I wonder if there is some mathematical link to THE numbers?
Comment by Paul — May 10, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Looks like jam to me… think y’all are reading a bit too much in to this one. He simply likes to make his own food, not the technologically packaged and processed foods being eaten by the Dharma Initiative.
Comment by DesmondRules — May 10, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Just noticing that they are all equally filled…
Except for the one that is smaller and has less “goop” in it. Also the one all the way to the left appears to be the most solid(actually does look like grape jelly.
In fact, none of them look totally like a liquid.
No theroies yet, but it did seem like Jaccob is stuck there in that chair…
Comment by Chuck_Farley — May 10, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Howard Hughes used to keep his pee in jars, too. Come to think of it, for years a lot of people weren’t sure if he was really there, either…
Comment by Chris Knight — May 10, 2007 @ 11:28 am
I really don’t understand why some Lost fans insist on reading so much into the show. Do you really think the writers/directors/producers sit around talking about how there should be six jars sitting in a window because it symbolizes imperfection, and how the contents of the jars should be/symbolize wine and pee? I personally think they have much more important issues to discuss. Like what a particular episode should be about, and what the dialog should be, and what locations they will need, etc.
But anyway… There are six jars. Big deal. You decided to focus your attention on the jars because they stood out to you and because you liked that there were six of them. If there had been five of them and you hadn’t been able to think of any significance to the number five, you would have ignored them and focused on something else. Like hey, Ben and his dad were drinking beer, and beer comes in six-packs. SIX! It’s like looking at clouds — some look like bunnies, some don’t. But most people are smart enough to realize that there’s no MEANING behind a cloud that looks like a bunny.
And finally, none of the jars look like they contain anything remotely similar to wine. Notice that none of them are level at the top. So you can forget about them containing liquid altogether.
Comment by Andulamb — May 10, 2007 @ 11:29 am
god i hope lost doesn’t go all religious on us lo, i fckn hate religion i’d rather it go full on sci fi then religion nooooooo!
Comment by nickk — May 10, 2007 @ 11:31 am
I agree about the jar business, i think people are reading far to far into it, i don’t think they did any link there to the bible, not being religious i wouldn’t know what the hell they are talking about anyway even if it was about main stuff in religion haven’t got a clue, and i know americas gone all ape shit in recent years on religion since the borne into as a result of the cold war, but seriouslt the producers can’t be trying to appeal to those die hard fanatic religious types surely, what a shit show that would make it
Comment by nickk — May 10, 2007 @ 11:36 am
Here’s my prediction: Jacob will come out of the dark, be revealed as Carlton Cuse, and tell everyone they’re actors on a tv show.
Comment by boonesghost — May 10, 2007 @ 11:52 am
looks syrupy to me, the way it hangs onto the glass in the jar at the top. also, three of the darker jars in the front look like they might have labels on them. My guess is some sort of manufactured substance or maybe wild honey. but this is Lost so who knows, we’ll find out maybe 32 episodes from now.
Comment by rcsurf — May 10, 2007 @ 11:53 am
did jacob react to something ben said or to locke turning on his flashlight? Ben seemed surprised at the flashlight.
Comment by Drakoi — May 10, 2007 @ 11:54 am
I just think that Ben has Jacob hostage because it looks like he tried to get out of the chair and couldnt. I am taking a wild guess here but I think Ben is afraid of Locke because he could here Jacob say “help me” wich is more of a clue than the jars of pee, and thats why he shoots him at the end.
I think Ben became the leader because he willingly joined the locals and has a natural connection with the island (he sees his mother) and he dosent want Locke replacing him. They both have a connection and similarities, but as someone pointed out, Locke couldnt kill his father, wich I think is a significant event for the future of these tow
Comment by bestiapeluda — May 10, 2007 @ 11:54 am
Yes Andulamb, most people actually do think that the writers deliberately throw in easter eggs into most episodes. The 6 jars could very well be one of them. Or not. Its all in the fun of watching the show! If you don’t like it, then don’t come to this site to complain. Furthermore, after you complained, you STILL participated in the discussion!!! THAT makes no sense.
Jars. I’ll bet its just Dharma Juice…or jam. mmmmm…jam
Jacob, Jam, Juice. J!!!
Comment by DrSheppard — May 10, 2007 @ 11:57 am
I’m not a fan of religion myself, but I think they are trying to explain things metaphorically. They’re not saying Christianity is the way, they’re saying religion is a turn off the path of truth. Maybe biblical stories (which are interesting whether you’re religious or not) are based on truth and prophecy but have been used for the purpose of power and wealth to the point where it’s a veil. I think tptb are using metaphors to say what if it were like this? Ultimately though they are perpetuating the truth, which is nobody really knows what the truth is…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 10, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Does anyone know the date of Ben’s birthday? Just wondered if it may be something to do w/the numbers, as it was a big theme this episode…
Comment by lostjunkie — May 10, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
i definately feel that the show is big into religion/mysticism, but in a fairly general way: no named gods etc, just…gods. so to speak. possibly a case of “gods sold seperately”, though…in which case just replace “gods” with “spirits” etc
im more than convinced that Richard may in fact be smokey. A lot more than convinced.
also, did anybody note that the guy who gave Roger the job hadnt seemed to age much? or did i imagine that :S ?
Comment by mw — May 10, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
I should ammend my last comment by saying sometimes religion can be a turn off the path of truth. While W. Bush uses god as a blanket while he murders innocents, the same god saves many people. There is grey area in between, but I believe the use of these biblical metaphors has a purpose that is certainly not religious…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 10, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
the purge took place at 4pm. 4pm is 16:00
16 is one of the numbers.
Comment by MikerMan — May 10, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
Actually, the purge took place at 4:00:15 and 4:00:16 pm.
So we do have a number reference there.
Comment by connorcam — May 10, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
very interesting is the fact that i belive that richard was not putting on his look of surprise when meeting young ben. theres a lot more of that story to be filled in before we can draw ANY conclusions, though. for example:
-what happened to bens friend?
-how deep was the bond between ben and that guy who gave his father the job?
-why did ben end up a workman?
-how long ago precisely was the purge? my guess is 3-4 years
-who were the other dharma-traitors? Ben made repeated references to other members of the former dharma initiative being “born” onto the island/survivng the purge
-when did ben stop being able to speak to jacob?
-DID ben stop being able to speak to jacob?
-does jacob simply choose for perticular people to hear him? he clearly isnt human, andso its possible that he said “help me” for locke’s ears only
-what happened between richard and ben?
-if jacob is captive against his will, whos doing is/was it? im not totally convinced ben has anything to do with it, really - i think locke was right to an extent when he said that ben knew nothing
-are the original “others” simply forever young as a result of being native to the island?
-is richard’s youth a red herring?
-if the original hostiles/others WERE forever young, that would explain the natives on an island where there can be no children born (generally…relatively recent scientific intervention courtesy of juliet aside)
Comment by mw — May 10, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
Dude,
GARMONBOZIA!
Ring a bell?
peace
L
Comment by redhood — May 10, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
From LOSTPEDIA:
If Ben’s birthday is December 22 (the date this episode takes place on the Island), why was the weather so warm 32 miles outside of Portland on the day he was born?
Comment by Cheex223 — May 10, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
mw,
Great question summary!
Go to Lostpedia’s page about this episode.
It explains that the purge must have been in 1992 bc of the Timex Indiglo watch Ben kept looking at in the Dharma truck with his dad that day
Comment by Cheex223 — May 10, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
Of course, the purge could’ve occurred after 1992
Comment by Cheex223 — May 10, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
Looks to me like a gel like explosive that would go off when the outer ring was lit on fire. Eventually destroying the house of Jacob
Comment by Doug — May 10, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
My question is…
Why is there sunlight coming through the windows?!
Comment by 7ate9 — May 10, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
How about they are just dumb props and really don’t have any significant meaning? Heresey!
Comment by T — May 10, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
actually yeah, 7ate9 gets it.
REALLY good point, man.
…why havent any of the rest of us noticed that!?
Comment by mw — May 10, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
I found this online.. i was trying to find out what that powder could be.. this was on a site about Hoodoo..
Draw Back Powder
A single ingredient powder from Hoodoo that is to be sprinkled around your home to prevent anyone from hexing you and reverse all evil spells
Comment by nikkee — May 10, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Thanks! I was wondering why nobody had noticed it. Where is that outside light coming from? We know they went there in the blackest of the middle of the night. When Locke opens the door to run out, it is dark. How can it be daylight outside while they are in the cabin and night time when they are out?
And for the record, I’m a girl.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 10, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
I wonder if 53349 is like 5/33/49 which could be Ben’s birthday? Although that wouldn’t make much sense considering it’s almost Christmas… unless time indeed has a different speed on the island…. hmmmm.
They all add up to equal 24… I don’t know how 24 fits into anything, it’s 42 backwards, but it also can mean 24 hours, but how that connects to anything I don’t know, unless that’s how many years he ended up being on the island =\
Comment by Josh — May 10, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
so, this is what i think .. Richard figures out Ben is special. Able to see ghosts, whatever the deal with that is. They take him in, and in the process the others try to use Ben as a way to talk to the island. In the process ben finds the island, learns about it and then turns on it. Taking him prisonor and using him to gain power.
Comment by Matthew — May 10, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Ok, to be realistic, the jars are pretty clearly honey with honey combs inside. Honey comes in different colors
Comment by Annu — May 10, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
“I wonder if 53349 is like 5/33/49 which could be Ben’s birthday? Although that wouldn’t make much sense considering it’s almost Christmas…”
Yes… That’s what doesn’t add up about this statement
Comment by RunKateRun — May 10, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Speaking on Pythagoras, there was a scene in the DHARMA school in which the sirens were going off, and when they zoomed up to show the siren that was blaring, they showed to the left of it a kid’s poster explaining the Pythagorean theorem. Connection???
Comment by Frenk Melk — May 10, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
“Two of them kinda looked like pee”
lol, I guess that solves where Jacob goes to the restroom then.
Comment by Sara — May 10, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
If we’re going the biblical way, has no one else noticed that Jacks last name is SHEPHERD???
Comment by beachlover — May 10, 2007 @ 7:46 pm
What a coincidence!! MY birthday is May 33rd. : )
Comment by 7ate9 — May 10, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
I think that the light coming in the window could have been a goof on the part of the lighting/camera crew.
Just a thought. It’s not like there hasn’t been a million other similar mistakes on this show.
Comment by Shawn — May 10, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
“I wonder if 53349 is like 5/33/49 which could be Ben’s birthday? Although that wouldn’t make much sense considering it’s almost Christmas…”
“Yes… That’s what doesn’t add up about this statement :-D”
LOL!!!!!!!!!
It’s easy to get “mushy brain” when you’re over-analyzing Lost. Too funny.
Comment by Shawn — May 10, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
Locke will be back.
Comment by JoshRad — May 10, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
Four bucks says those jars are filled with honey.
I’m almost positive those jars contain wildflower comb-honey. It looks like it has the same consistency, and the solid bits look like it could be the part of the honeycomb. Wildflower honey also varies in color, from light yellow to dark brown. I live near an apiary (a place where bees are raised) and the honey that the sell often comes with pieces of the comb in it. It is consumed as a sort of delicacy in many places.
If I had to read into the significance of these jars of honey, though, there’s two things I can think of. One, honey is mentioned in the Bible as a staple food source. Two, honey requires no refrigeration and has a long shelf life. This seems to fit perfectly with Jacob’s lifestyle. Exactly why these jars were featured so prominently, I have no idea. The mystery will probably last until the fifth season, when this single shot will be given loads of mythological significance in the context of the story.
Comment by Mikey — May 10, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
Ben Linus was born on December 22
Comment by t — May 11, 2007 @ 2:41 am
Could it be the other sailors from the Black Rock?
Comment by GMoney — May 11, 2007 @ 7:13 am
Well - 3*4*9 = 108 (that whole button thing) - not sure what the 5 and the 3 mean. But that is the only thing that stood out with the numbers for the sonic barrier.
Comment by Sarah — May 11, 2007 @ 7:54 am
The best two theories on these jars I’ve heard so far is from blogger 1miletogo. One is that it’s wine from Moriah, which would support the Brother Campbell theory. Another interesting point here is that if the gold liquid is honey, it would also be in support of Campbell (monks often make honey). His other theory was that the jars are samples (studied by DHARMA?) from Jacob who is a super psychic that can reform himself. I like this one particularly because of the black orb we see in the chair just before Locke busts out of the house. It would support a theory that Jacob is a highly evolved human who is now pure energy, but can reform into his human shell (and maybe even other shells)…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 11, 2007 @ 9:14 am
If that’s honey in the jars, there must be bees around. Could Smokey be a huge swarm of bees?
Comment by Tresbien — May 11, 2007 @ 10:05 am
If Ben was born in December I can tell you one thing. You would never go Hiking in Oregon in December because it would always be raining.
Second the two colors of Jars. Maybe Jake has turned water into wine…he just likes Red and White wine.
Comment by Bob Bob — May 11, 2007 @ 11:14 am
re: Bens Birthday:
Supposedly he was born sometime in 1963 based on the cars used in the birth scene. This info is on a Spoiler site by the person that was asked to supply the cars to the shoot.
Comment by BP — May 11, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
7ate9, I was also thinking about why there was light coming in through the window. The island date is currently 12/23/04, There was a full moon on 12/26/04, could be the moon coming out behind cloud cover.
Also, some time seemed to elapse while Ben & Locke where in the house, it is daylight when they come out…
Comment by 1miletogo — May 11, 2007 @ 1:57 pm
I could see it being moonlight if they were out in the open, but a canopy of thick tree cover would make that near impossible. Especially from two different windows on either side of the room.
Comment by 7ate9 — May 11, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
I think MW has some good questions…I think Locke was right on when saying Ben was a fraud. Ben was pretending to hear and see Jacob only to see if Locke could see or hear him too. Why else would Ben, who was in the room, ask Locke what Ben said? And when Locke asked Ben why he shot him, Ben said “because you heard him John”…And based on the current technology DARHMa was using up til the purge, I would guess that the purge was in the early 80’s…everything in the hatches was very dated. As for the sub-terranian terror I can’t wait to see what is made of that. Locke almost made it their when he was dragged towards that “rabbit hole”, but that is a question that needs to answered. 3 more seasons and that’s all she wrote.
Comment by soxfan — May 11, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
The powder is a ring of salt around the house which is used to keep spirits captive… which means that Ben is holding Jacob captive
Comment by lithium — May 12, 2007 @ 3:03 am
…and also Jacob asking Locke for help. he wants to be freed. I think Ben shot him because he wasn’t “special” for being the only one to hear him anymore. Ben felt threatened that maybe Locke would try to free him.
Comment by lithium — May 12, 2007 @ 3:17 am
I think the jars are the same ones as in the window in the classroom scene.
and may 33rd. LOLOLOLOLOL!
Comment by Drakoi — May 12, 2007 @ 3:30 am
what i want to know is… when jacob threw his little paddy ,he knocked over the lantern which then burst into flames.. so why did Ben walk out of the hut with the lantern still in tacked and what happened to the fire that started?
Comment by eve — May 12, 2007 @ 8:44 am
also sorry for posting twice… i know what im about to write has nothing to do with the jars but i don’t know where to put it and i have to share my thought, i think Annie (bens friend) became bens girlfriend/wife? and maybe she died while pregnant and thats why bens obsessed with trying to find out why women r dying when they fall pregnant…..
or heres another no doubt stupid idea….
its a curse put on the island by jacob, (who is really bens dead dad), that no women can give birth to get ben back for killin his mum and him!
Comment by eve — May 12, 2007 @ 9:09 am
I was thinking, if Ben is supposed to be so important because he can see dead people (his mother) then what about Jack in season 1 when he sees his dad and chases him through the jungle. Also, why do you think that Ben cared so much about what Jacob said to Locke? I dont think it is because Ben cant talk with Jacob because he seemed to have a large conversation with Jacob in the cabin. I suppose he could have been acting, but i dont think that is the case.
Comment by kd — May 12, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
bodily fluids for hoodoo
http://synchromysticism.blogspot.com/
Comment by synchromystic librarian — May 12, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
If Jacob’s wee is turning brown on standing then he has acute intermittent porphyria, which drives you mad.
Comment by kerel — May 13, 2007 @ 5:42 am
I seem to remember my high school Latin teacher saying that in Ancient times, wine in its original form was actually gelatinous and was then watered down for drinking. So it could be that or…
Jam, jelly… a.k.a PRESERVATIVES. Think of Richard, he appears not to have aged, and we didn’t get any actually close-ups of the other Others, so its possible they haven’t aged either. The jars could then just be symbolic of the preservative qualities of the island.
Comment by LaMer — May 13, 2007 @ 8:57 am
The makers of lost haven’t even figure out themselves what’s coming.They are just waiting untill WE give them some theories and story lines.
I love ” Lost” but it’s taking to long for me getting some REAL and SATTISFYING answers, and it’s sometimes annoying for me to go from mystery to mystery.They need to speed it all up a little.We are 68 episodes far and still know way to little.
(i love the show most of the time, but sometimes they are losing me.just personal, hope you don’t mind)
Comment by Tyson — May 13, 2007 @ 10:01 am
There is a Portland in Flordia also, which could explain the warm weather in December.
It’s not too far away from Tallahassee either.
Comment by pontis6 — May 14, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
Take a look at the trees in the background when Ben was born. Defenately tropical vegetation.
Comment by pontis6 — May 14, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
hahaha these theories are so funny, where did you come up with six jars of wine?
somebody said “The REAL question…how many toes does Richard have?”
good times indeed
Comment by heppamies — May 15, 2007 @ 3:13 am
Good call. All of these Florida issues have me wondering if they’re all clues to the bermuda triangle…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 16, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
cap10tripps, cool that you mention it, i’ve been pondering about bermuda triangle too. Not sure how that would tie in with the flight path, but it certainly is an interesting idea.
Comment by oyam — May 17, 2007 @ 12:25 am