Man Behind the Curtain Vote and Discuss
I beg you, please… do not game this poll. The Man Behind the Curtain is over, Jacob has been revealed, and John Locke is in serious trouble. Did the long awaited reveal of "Jacob" meet with your approval? Vote and discuss!
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Can’t wait For some Eggs!
Comment by Bigbenguy — May 9, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Who ever is Voting It bad I really hate you.
Comment by Bigbenguy — May 9, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Yeah, yeah…me too!
Comment by Vanessa — May 9, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
holy crap, that was a good episode.
some answers but even more questions.
I fear that Locke may be a goner.
Comment by crooKed — May 9, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
Two possibilities:
1) Locke’s going to be rescued/healed by Jacob, whereupon vengeance is theirs on Ben, and Locke is then the new chief of the Others. Setting in motion the Jack/Locke showdown that has been referred to.
or
2) The shark has been jumped.
Comment by Rook — May 9, 2007 @ 8:45 pm
Boy, that profile sure does remind me of “Beast” (Ron Perlman). Can anyone tell who it is? When I saw it on TV I thought it was a reverse image of Ben but now I see it’s not.
Why would Jacob need help? Is he being held against his will?
And Locke is “special”…I think he will be healed.
What an awesome episode and great scoop on that image, Doc!
Comment by Cassie — May 9, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Wow !!!!! What we learned:
1.) Ben was a wacked out kid who committed mass murder, or as he calls it “the purge”.
2.) Roger “WorkMan” was his freakin father.
3.) Richard, the ageless snake in Eden, manipulated him into doing it.
4.) Dharma was some kind of hippie Utopian experiment…Namaste Bro!Want some flowers? Maybe a VW?
5.) Ben was brought to the island.
6.) The entity know as Jacob hates technology…guess he didn’t build all those stations.
7.) John Locke is going to die from a bullet wound to the stomach in a mass grave. Maybe he’ll become a ghost whisperer.
8.) Jack is back…and he has a plan.
That’s enough answers in one episode for me! Hey haters, you only have 2 more years to complain about the show. Enjoy it (errrr loath it) while you can.
Comment by The Reptilian — May 9, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Before they got to the cabin, there was a gray, fine powder that seemingly marked the perimeter. What was that?
What was the painting in the cabin? And the Jars?
The purge was on Ben’s birthday. nice touch.
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 9, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
Yeah, I wasn’t all “Oh crap, they killed Locke” because he is special and if Jacob can cure cancer I’m sure a stomach wound isn’t a problem.
Am I the only person sick of Jack? He has a plan! Glad he decided to share it with Juliet and not the people that’s been with him (and saved his life…cave in). I demand at least one episode where Sawyer kicks the crap out of Jack!
Okay, my rant is done. The show is awesome and the haters…for the love of all that is holy go watch Medium.
Comment by MerlboroMan — May 9, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Jack has been getting on my nerves too….He’s hot but still getting on my nerves. So did kate when she told Jack about Naomi….Locke can’t be dead, he just can’t!
Comment by LiLi — May 9, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
How much time has elapsed from when Ben gassed his Pop and joined the “Hostiles” (does anyone have a screen cap of the canister he was holding)? So Michail really is a Dharma remnant living in an uneasy truce with the Hostiles — because of his technical/medical abilities –and why did he shoot Bea in the Flame epi?
Man, do the writers have a Father neurosis or what?
Jack — Dad’s a two-timing, drunken hack surgeon
Claire — Ditto
Locke — Father is a con man/murderer/organ thief
Sawyer — Father kills mother and himself in rage
Hugo — Father skips out on family, returns for money
Kate — Father (biological) is a wife-beater and borderline incestuous
Penny/Desmond — bully with hubris
Jin — father seems to reasonably good man, but a “nobody” and an embarrasment to his son
Sun — Father is a crime boss
Ben — Father is a drunken lout who sees his son as an emblem of failure and death.
Did I leave out any other reject Dads? Yeesh!
Comment by Apollobar — May 9, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
So, the ageless guy with the eyeliner who recruited Juliette, also recruited Ben.
Ben said he outsmarted all the Dharma by surviving them, but he was really manipulated by the eyeliner guy to kill them. The eyeliner guy KNOWS that locke did NOT kill his father because he gave the file, so he knows sawyer killed him. The Eyeliner guy may still be manipulating Ben. The hostiles convince people to Kill in order to join them. That makes them evil. We have not found out yet what the ‘hostiles” are doing there and what they are all about.
All I know is I HOPE that Desmond does not fall into the “island’s” trap and kill charlie.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 9, 2007 @ 9:13 pm
And, Appollobar- Ben and Kate both killed their fathers. and sawyer Killed Locke’s. Ben likes people to kill their fathers. Jack saw his father on the island and Ben saw his mother.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 9, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
And Kate saw a black horse … um … nevermind …
Comment by Apollobar — May 9, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
Couple of other observations, The purge occured at 4:00.
One of the Dharma people in the mass grave had a gun shot wound to the head.
Apparently, Ben didn’t hear Jacob?!
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 9, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
Is this the “incident” that is mentioned in the Swan’s training film? Were the stations attacked? Kelvin talked of the “hostiles” to Desmond — it seems that Dharma made a second incursion onto the island. Was the quarantine a ruse or did Dharma employ some bio-warfare to rid the island of its bellicose prior inhabitants?
Comment by Apollobar — May 9, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
Doc, so your spoiler/foiler topic the other day was half and half eh? Jacob appeared to be imaginary but then it appeared that he is real. Also, Jacob has not been cast so you were tricking us…clever clever.
I’m interested in learning what Jacob is and who he was or is. I thought the reveal was great and psychologically terrifying.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — May 9, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
LOCKE IS NOT DEAD…. and ill get to how i know this in a minute. 1st off, great episode (all but the house shaking because jacob doesnt like flash lights ((very gay)) ).
Ben can see and hear Jacob. Ben was shocked that Locke heard Jacob right before he walked out the door. Now Ben feels that Locke is a real threat, Ben was special because he was the only one who could hear and see Jacob, untill that is, Locke comes along and within a few minutes can even hear Jacob himself.
Now my theory on whats happening next…
Locke isn’t dead, did u notice where Ben shot him? Could have been a fatal wound to the Kidney right? Good thing Locke gave his Kidney away on his left side, huh? (see, everything does happen for a reason!) Now Jacob can help him, and heal Locke. Few episodes sooner then later, Locke returns, fully healed, now we have reasons for wanting Ben dead. Locke can take Ben’s place at Jacobs side. When everyone see’s that Locke has returned, he will have ALL of the others following him after that.
Ben, ur great, and ill miss u, but whoever shoots locke, ends up deaaadd..
Comment by Jimyy — May 9, 2007 @ 10:24 pm
“Good thing Locke gave his Kidney away on his left side, huh?”
Absolutely brilliant, Jimyy.
Comment by Will — May 9, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Thank u sir, my friend and i , after picking up our jaws from watching locke get shot by our second fav character, put some thought into things, and came up with what i wrote above…
To take it a step further… Ben shot him there on his left side where his kidney was removed because he knew the wound wouldnt be fatal, he also knew that if John really did hear jacob, and if jacob really thought John was special, then jacob would indeed heal him, if not, then Ben wins. Proving to not only the Others that he’s meant to be in charge, but also to himself.
Comment by jimyy — May 9, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
Jimyy: awesome clue. i didnt think he’s dead, actually know he isnt , but that def was an awesome clue to that! the hostiles have totally made dharma think the project is still going, and thats why they are coming. (loss of comm) ben totally shot locke bc he knew he heard jacob, and ben is not his “fave” anymore…typical middle child syndrome..i should know, I have it!!!
Comment by themachine — May 9, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
“Jacob” is Terry O’Quinn with a wig on . . .
Comment by Jay — May 9, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Why Jacob needs help is very simple…
Put urself in Jacob’s shoes if u will.. Your a powerful “ghost” and noone can hear you or see you… But BEN! That means, everyone has to listen to Ben, because its considered Jacobs will, but is it really? What if after years of doing Jacobs will, ben decides whatever ben says can be considered Jacobs word… even if it isnt, who’s going to say other wise? No one… but John Locke….
Comment by jimyy — May 9, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
Totally agree with you, Jay. Maybe Locke is a clone of “Jacob” or the other way around. It DEFINATELY looks like Terry O in that still… maybe once we have a high def…
Comment by Burz — May 9, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
Awesome episode. I got goosebumps when Jacob talked.
What does Jacob want help with? Is he a prisoner? Or does he want help against Ben [I suspect this one is correct]. Locke will come back, since he has no kidney there [gave to his dad]. Locke and Ben will fight for leadership. Locke will win.
But, what the hell is Jacob? Angel? Demon? Someone caught between dimensions? Scientist with a fishbowl?
Does Richard not age?
We now have proof that there is something other than ‘normal science’ on the island. Locke couldn’t see Jacob, but *we* saw him. We know what Locke does not: Jacob is real! Why can Ben see him, and no one else can, but Locke heard him. And I agree… Jacob totally looked like Locke. The nose especially. Can we get a profile shot of Locke to compare to Jacob?
Can’t wait for the caps.
Comment by DJ-Anakin — May 9, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
I love Lost, but I have to say, I’m one of those who voted it should have stayed behind the curtain. The episode was OK in terms of revealing things and adding new questions/mysteries, but I was quite disappointed with the whole mass murder/hostiles taking over deal. I always thought and expected the realtionship between the hostiles and Dharma to be more complex than that. Gassing everyone just seemed like too wasy way out of the problem. It’s not like I hate Lost now or anything, but comparing this to the (for exmple) previous two episodes, I can’t say I liked this one much. Also the stuff with Losties, tape recorder, Juliet and Jack was … meh. It was obvious from the previous episodes and from the teasers (the teasers gave away way way too much) what was gona happen. I’m not saying I hate Lost or anything (with the way things are going, people seem to percieve small disappointments that way) … but I can’t say I liked this episode much.
And yes, otherwise I’m with you: Locked will survive, Ben sucks (eventhough he’s one of my fav chars), Jack is annoying.
@Apollobar: From other stuff JJ did, it seems he likes to mix in lots of parenting issues and focus the father side of things.
Comment by mayo — May 9, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
What a fantastic episode.
Locke isn’t dead. Terry O’Quinn is listed as an actor on IMBD for finale where as… Charlie is not.
Plus, what dynamic would there be for Ben if they killed Locke… plus the show isn’t going to jump the shark this badly killing off the “man of the island”.
Oh yeah, I noticed he got shot in the kidney area too. Guess Ben got too cocky…. again. Well Ben, now Locke can throw one back at you…
“You really screwed that one up Ben.”
Now what’s creepy is that Jacob said “help me.” wth is up with that?
and Richard was just kind of scary.
It reminded me of the wrinkle in time seriously with Ben running around in glasses and the girl. Not to mention the “trees that whisper”.
Comment by Sara — May 9, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
I love how this furthers Doc’s Hero’s Journey theory, too.
9. Apotheosis. The hero is deified.
This is also part of what we are seeing right now. We know there are good people amongst the others, the tailies that were kidnapped etc, and to them Locke has now become a hero. The nemesis, however, has a different plan as we saw; he plans to humiliate the hero to prevent him from gathering support.
10. The hero receives the power. (Now he just needs to figure out what to do with it!)
Here is where we are leaving off. As you can see, we are pretty close to the end of the second act of the myth. What happens here and in the following steps is what predicts the end of the show.
There’s no way Locke is dead; it would appear the island’s secrets will make #10 a reality. I think Ben went pretty far in ‘humiliating’ poor Locke, can’t wait to see it bite him in the ass.
I’m also digging Alpert’s role here; I’m liking how his ancient Egyptian look seems simpatico with ruins and four-toed statues.
Lost Media has the Jacob still up, sure looks like a wigged out O’Quinn to me.
Comment by ungabunga — May 10, 2007 @ 12:33 am
Also, if Mikhail is a Dharma holdover it’s interesting that he was sharing that “I’m not alone” with Naomi also. Where do those Dharma supplies come from, anyways?
Comment by ungbunga — May 10, 2007 @ 12:39 am
There was a subtle clue that perhaps Ben did NOT hear Jacob himself.
After he shot John Locke, Ben demanded to know what Jacob told Locke. Locke said “Help me!”
Which set Ben off, instead of Ben realizing that that really was what Jacob told John. John had to spell it out for Ben, before Ben walked away stunned.
Comment by Azure — May 10, 2007 @ 12:43 am
forgive me if this is a stupid question but….. have we ever seen locke’s mother before? her name was emily too wasnt it?
Comment by mandy — May 10, 2007 @ 12:50 am
good point mandy.
Comment by shaun — May 10, 2007 @ 1:43 am
The eye patch Russian guy is the sole Dharma person to survive. Think about it. When Sayed first stumbled upon his house, Mr. eye patch flashed his rifle and said he had a deal with “you guys”. We also know that Dharma is still sending supplies to the island. That means Dharma might not have any idea what happened on the island (that Dharma participants were all mass murdered). I’m thinking that Ben and the Others told the eye patch guy to continue communication with the Dharma program, where ever they are located, in exchange for him to live. Remember, that this is the only character that still wears a Dharma overall.
Comment by Locke Rules — May 10, 2007 @ 2:11 am
Jacob is Alvar Hanso.
Sincerely,
Persiphone
thehansofoundation.org
Comment by Persiphone — May 10, 2007 @ 2:15 am
Jacob needs help because he can’t go outside the line of sand (or whatever) around the house
Comment by Bear — May 10, 2007 @ 2:32 am
Wow, great catch!! I think your spot-on with that one. It’s almost definitely Alvar Hanso.
Comment by Insomn3ak — May 10, 2007 @ 2:59 am
Locke: “Ah, it’s only a flesh wound.”
Comment by Josh — May 10, 2007 @ 3:31 am
The only problem with that is she died giving birth to Ben, and Locke is like 40-50 years old when he last sees his mother… I don’t think it’s possible for them to be related, if that’s what you’re hinting.
Comment by Josh — May 10, 2007 @ 3:33 am
Alex gave Locke a gun and told him he’d need it if he was going to go see Jacob. Maybe she wanted him to kill Ben? Hmmm…
Comment by Arodis Atool — May 10, 2007 @ 5:19 am
I think Jacob is a cursed witch doctor and last original inhabitant, and the hostiles are desendents of the crew of the old ship wreck, ageless and cursed to live in limbo with the monster and the damned. what is the name of the ship anyway? and does anyone recognize the monsters howl?
Comment by jusgr8 — May 10, 2007 @ 5:44 am
The line could well be salt.
A circle of salt was used to keep witches, deamons and whatnots containted/trapped, afterall…
i dont believe it could be smokey tracks, as we have never seen it before.
im guessing that ageless-richard is intended to be someone/thing annologous to satan, and that the story is generally gonna get…er..fairly damn more mystical!
Comment by mw — May 10, 2007 @ 5:49 am
“Jacob”s voice really sounded like Michael Emerson to me. We weren’t looking at Ben when the voice spoke to John. I don’t necessarily like where this is going, but I’m gonna stick with Ben is Jacob. I think Ben is “special” like Walt(sees some dead people, has a bit of telekinesis), but maybe Ben can’t handle the power and has created Jacob to cope.
Comment by e-z-e — May 10, 2007 @ 5:57 am
…you know, to be honest i know this going to sound…mauybe a little lame, but im going to have to come out and say that im not totally unconvinced that the island aint altantis or simillar, and that Jacob aint [a?] god or summant like that…
tha atlantis-or-simillar-thing evidence:
1-there is classical-era architecture on the island - atlantis was, i seem to recall, described in some odd bit of plato/socrates (yeah..same thing generally/supposedly i know)
2-there is a big-assed old statue …which sint directly evidence but im running with it re: 1
3-theres an old ship in the middle of the island, as if the island rose up underneath it and caught it by surprise. i dont buy the mining bit
4-its not on any map
5-this one is really REALLY tenuous, but i did just read a Gaiman novel which involved atlantis sinking and an angel being held prisoner …now, this to me seems simillar enough in a sense yet utterly different in the details, and so represents the sort of core thematic element that could be relatively easily scavenged/salvaged/incorporated on a really basic level
lol, feel free to rip into that
Comment by mw — May 10, 2007 @ 6:04 am
reply to: jusgr8
If you are right, that could explain the powder around Jacob’s residence. Did anyone ever see the movie “The Skeleton Key?” It dealt with the voodoo religion “Hoodoo.” In Hoodoo, you can keep spirits confined to an area with brick powder. Perhaps, the powder seen in last nights episode could be similar.
PS. Did anyone notice the interior of Jacob’s residence? I can’t remember, but was there, at any point, a ladder shown somewhere in his cabin?? If there was, then it could be assumed that is would be Jacob’s Ladder. Do you guys know what a “Jacob’s Ladder” is?? Perhaps another spiritual clue?
Comment by Elephants_Gerald — May 10, 2007 @ 6:12 am
what is that on Jacob’s head? Something is definitely hanging out the side of his head. It almost seems like a gunshot wound or something. weird. Jacob is some sort of a prisoner….but of what?
Ben is really evil and should die.
Comment by bjorn — May 10, 2007 @ 6:21 am
What a disappointment - LOST has turned into nothing more than an old-fashioned ghost story. Jacob, the trapped, furious soul looking for help; people seeing dead family members; Ben is nothing more than a grown-up little boy who is still pissed at his alcoholic father after all these years and committed mass murder to get back at him, and now the ghosts of the Dharma folks whisper about the living. How prosaic. Thought they would be far more creative than that. YAWN.
Comment by Dr. Shredder — May 10, 2007 @ 6:28 am
Just in case anyine doesnt remember, I posted last week that Alvar Hanso was Jacob. Look at the screencap.
Comment by jerdrew — May 10, 2007 @ 6:31 am
What if we have this (”Richard is ageless”) thing all back asswards. That Ben is actually aging faster than anyone else. This is why Ben’s father can’t figure out when Ben’s birthday (date of his wife’s death) is. If the purge actually happened when Mikhail was on the island (after 1990) and Ben did not look that old when the purge happened.
If time on the island is moving faster, maybe that is why there are fertility problems on the island. Claire was 8 months pregnant most of her term has off the island (Aaron is ok). The lady that died on the table was “Ripped” open at the stomach in her 2nd tri-mester, maybe she was actually full term and the baby was trying to GET OUT!??!?!
I notice the past few weeks that when someone goes into a hatch (Sun/Juliet) / house (Ben/Locke) in the dark, they come out in the light. Time moving fast and Ben is aging fast.
Just my observation.
Comment by Brite_Lites_Big_City — May 10, 2007 @ 6:38 am
The powdery substance is a barrier to keep Jacob in the shack. It’s used by witch doctors to keep evil spirits from crossing over and doing possibile harm to anyone. Smokey and Jacob are similar only in that they are not physical beings but inhabitants of the island prior to the hostils, the others and the losties.
Comment by John — May 10, 2007 @ 6:40 am
Did anybody think that Jacob’s profile looked a lot like Roy Schneider, especially that nose? Also what happened to the little girl that Ben was friends with? Did she get killed by the gas attack too? That seems weird, even for evil Ben. I don’t think Locke dies either, at least I hope not since, to me, he is the most interesting character on the show.
Comment by jks — May 10, 2007 @ 7:07 am
2 forces on island: good vs. evil
richard is satan (or an agent thereof)who can only act through mortals he/it seduces to do his/its evil bidding.
jacob is spirit of God/Jesus (healer) who can only be heard by those of pure heart and who’s powers are expressed through such pure of heart mortals.
Comment by richard aka satan — May 10, 2007 @ 7:10 am
The fact that they were hippies suggest they were in the early 70’s, late 60’s
The fact Locke mother is also called Emily, and could have had locke early 60’s, doesnt disprove she could have also been Bens mother.
Also with the free sex agreement back then, there is no rules against a different father.
Comment by Shano — May 10, 2007 @ 7:12 am
I think I’ll go for that theory that Jacob has something to do with the Black Rock - as well as the ‘hostiles’ do. It’s like a Jules Vernes story: mysterious islands in the middle of the Pacific, ancient civilizations existing there before, a shipwreck etc etc. Plus, 20th century metaphysical sci fi and ghost stories. You can imagine the rest.
What is interesting is the flight: Jacob had a ‘list’. Has anyone seen that movie ‘Millenium’? It’s about the Bermuda triangle, where airplanes that were going to crush are being abducted by folks (sort of ‘Atlanteans’) outside our timeline, who can predict those accidents. Passengers destined to die are sent to a secret place in another dimension, in order to preserve a dying civilization. Then these ‘Atlanteans’ send back fake airplanes filled with dummies pretending to be corpses. Jacob could be an otherworld force that kind of does the same thing.
Comment by Nick — May 10, 2007 @ 7:12 am
“jacob is spirit of God/Jesus (healer) who can only be heard by those of pure heart and who’s powers are expressed through such pure of heart mortals.”
Well, Ben can hear him… and i wouldnt say he’s a posterboy for the “Pure of Heart” foundation.
Comment by Jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 7:13 am
“Well, Ben can hear him… ”
or can he? We know Ben can see him but it is not clear that Ben is telling the truth about hearing him or at least hearing him since he committed mass murder…
Comment by richard aka satan — May 10, 2007 @ 7:17 am
I think it’s clear that Ben was talking to Jacob.. Ben wouldn’t fake all that, Ben’s not crazy or insane. When Ben saw his dead mother, Richard knew this was the boy they were all waiting for, finally someone who can see and talk to Jacob… But now we know that Bens not the only one who can do this, Thats what’s worrying Ben the most, Locke.
Comment by Jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 7:21 am
“Richard knew this was the boy they were all waiting for, finally someone who can see and talk to Jacob…”
Your theory and mine are not incompatible if you adjust my comment about only “pure of heart” mortals being capable of hearing / seeing Jacob (God.) Perhaps there is some other reason these 2 have that ability - but the Biblical overtones are unmistakable.
Comment by richard aka satan — May 10, 2007 @ 7:44 am
remember the girl in the school class asking the teacher if that was the same type of volcanic eruption that had happened on their island! what could that mean?
i think that this may have been how the island was formed. a hot spot beneath the earths crust that eventually formed an island (like the Icelandic island of ‘Surtsey’ if anyone knows about that). the island could have grown out of the sea this way, thus explaining why the ship is in the middle of the island and why the island has not been discovered by anyone else.
of course this is a total guess and you may think it is stupid. but i think the previous volcanic eruption definitely holds some significance to the story, otherwise why make such a point of mentioning it???
also, could someone explain to me what all this ‘Alvar Hanso’ stuff is about? i typed into google and saw a video of him explaining some equation that is to be used to save the world, which was why dharma was set up… but i don’t remember seeing anything like it on any lost episode.
also like to add that lost is the best tv programme ever!!! truely love it!!! but i want answers to all these mysteries!!!
Comment by rhodri_10 — May 10, 2007 @ 7:49 am
Couldnt agree more, Ben was at a time, Pure of Heart, probably up until he commited that awful sin. Ur right about the biblical overtones. We’re close, and indeed on to something.
Comment by Jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 7:50 am
It is clear that Ben is NO LONGER able to hear Jacob. Remember, BEN ASKED LOCKE WHAT HE HEARD, SO BEN DID NOT HEAR. Ben was testing Locke to see if he could hear him.
Once Ben lost his ability to hear Jacob, he feared losing his position of “leader”, and feared telling Richard. Richard may suspect ben has lost this ability and so was helping Locke (by giving him the Folder) Richard may realize that locke has a greater power than Ben.
Locke now knows that:
1. Ben cannot hear Jacob anymore
2. Ben and Richard are evil
3. That they are killers
If this is the case, why would Locke want to be their leader?
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 10, 2007 @ 7:57 am
Ben was surprised that someone else can hear Jacob, Jacob can talk to individual people. So if Jacob was talking to John, he didnt want Ben to hear, i mean he is a powerful “ghost” it is very possible that Jacob just didnt want Ben to hear that.
Comment by Jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 8:02 am
True to form, this episode was also built up but failed to deliver. Some of my observations:
- the actor playing Ben’s father was PISS POOR. Not a very convincing performance at all
- the boy actor playing Ben was also not very good.
- Ben as a boy mythology was SO NOT revealing or mysterious. Ok, so he was a weird geeky kid who never said anything. They could have made it much more interesting as a “Walt-like” kid who was ’special’. Ok so he saw his dead Mom, big freakin deal so has everyone else one that island seen someone who was dead.
- the Purge was a MAJOR letdown…gassed DHARMA? Please, since when does gas from a small cannister kill people who are all scattered about outside anyway? The atmosphere would suck up the poison gas and it wouldn’t be strong enough to kill, maybe knock out but not kill.
- the way Ben killed his father…totally bogus. The father did not even try to open the car door to get out of the gas, he just sat there and died…how contrived!
-Jacob as ‘invisible friend’ of Ben. Wow, what a stretch. Talk about asking the audience to suspend disbelief…sheesh. I did not like the setup or hte scene…Ben appeared to be wacko psychosis suffering mental patient as a opposed to manipulating mastermind which is what we have come to know him as. No crazy person could ever pull off some of the mental manipulations he has been capable of.
-Locke getting killed…I don’t know what to say about this scene…ok so he’s going to come back from the dead or get healed. Maybe a shark jumping moment for a later episode?
Comment by T — May 10, 2007 @ 8:05 am
I got the impression that Jacob could choose who could hear and see him. Therefore when Locke heard him say “Help me” he was speaking to Locke and Locke ONLY.
Comment by dave11:11 — May 10, 2007 @ 8:07 am
I don’t know if the powder is meant to keep Jacob prisoner. It might be the other way around, to keep Richard away from Jacob so that Ben is the only one able to talk to him. To me it seems like Richard at some point lost his power to Ben and Ben took control of the ability to visit Jacob by putting that powder around Jacob’s place in order to prevent the spirits (hostiles) from entering. Now Richard sees another mortal (Locke) with the potential to speak to Jacob and is trying to get him to overthrow Ben in hopes of gaining a connection to Jacob once again.
Comment by Jesse — May 10, 2007 @ 8:30 am
Richard didn’t seem to be all that interested in young Ben until he told him that he could see his dead mother. Maybe he knew that Ben would be able to see Jacob as well….
Comment by 80sKatie — May 10, 2007 @ 8:32 am
I posted this on another site but I felt the need to post it here.
Jacob is Sawyer.
When Ben says, “Did you think that that was my…Sawy..(pronounced as “soy”)…may I finish?”
“You’re crazy” Locke interrupts, and it goes on.
When the voice speaks to Locke, it sounds like Sawyer.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 8:42 am
The way we know that ben can no longer hear Jacob, is:
1. Because he had to ask Locke what Jacob said because he could NOT hear him, and
2. Most obviously, Because he got cancer- now we know why. This “gave it away” that Ben was no longer able to hear jacob, as he was pretending to for a long time (he may only have been able to hear Jacob in his youth BEFORE he killed his father, and was pretending since then.) Ben has retained “leadership” because he can profess to hear ‘instruction” from Jacob. NOW Richard can’t be sure when exactly Ben started to dupe him by pretending, but Richard knows that Locke may have this ability (because he “brought” his father to the island).
Ben must have figured out a way to isolate Jacob in the house after he lost communication with him, as a way to retain “leadership” over Richard. [the Black powder- monster particles that can acivate?] After Ben got cancer, Richard and the others figured out that Ben was losing his powers with Jacob and this is why Richard helped Locke by GIVING HIM the folder, so that he could bring the body back to Ben and then force ben to bring him to Jacob!
The wrench is that Ben will NOT cede leadership to Locke at any cost. Alex may know that Ben always kills off anyone who threatens his leadership, which is why she gave Locke the gun.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 10, 2007 @ 8:51 am
Now that I see that screen shot of Jacob-it reminds me of when Tom was running around with that fake beard…….was that ever explained?
Comment by Shazoo — May 10, 2007 @ 8:54 am
For everyone speculating that Ben and Locke share the same mother, don’t you remember Locke’s mother was played by Swoosie Kurtz, who looks NOTHING like Ben’s dead mama? They are NOT the same person, so throw out the theory they are brothers.
Comment by FROGURT — May 10, 2007 @ 8:55 am
For everyone speculating that Ben and Locke share the same mother, don’t you remember Locke’s mother was played by Swoosie Kurtz, who looks NOTHING like Ben’s dead mama? They are NOT the same person, so throw out the theory they are brothers.
Comment by FROGURT — May 10, 2007 @ 8:56 am
And Also, IS ANNE, the little girl in the flashback, Alex’s MOTHER? Did Ben and Anne have a teen fling? Did Ben sacrifice poor Anne, Alex’s mother, in his mad desire for power, and does Alex suspect this??
This would be a big shock because we have been led to believe it is Danielles daughter. Someone else may be Danielles daughter…
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — May 10, 2007 @ 8:57 am
Yes, there was an episode that showed all the fake beards and hair and theatrical glue in the lockers,
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 9:02 am
I missed the last few episodes in season 2-ABC was showing them last summer and stopped in mid-August so I had to ctahc up on the boards -so forgive me but what was the explanation for the fake beards and theatrical make up then?
Comment by Shazoo — May 10, 2007 @ 9:10 am
It’s been made clear, throughout the episodes, that Danielle Rousseau is the mother, and I suspect she’s about to go to great lengths to get her back.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 9:12 am
Why does everyone assume Richard is evil? What have we seen him do? He is an interesting character who seems content to let things play out.
Here’s what I don’t get…if Richard and company are ‘natives’ and Dharma was wiped out, how did the natives get so much $$ and facilities in the US? Seems to me the natives are either ex-Dharma, test subjects, or some form of competition. I don’t buy into the Black Rock survivors theory.
Best episode of the season IMHO.
Comment by John — May 10, 2007 @ 9:13 am
Surtsey took about a year to be a fully formed island, and any boat would have had plenty of warning from the clouds of ash rising from the sea. unless they were all dead, then they probably wouldn’t have moved. but the boat would have burnt from the hot ash etc.
Comment by jim robinson is jacob — May 10, 2007 @ 9:21 am
Another quirky observation:
Ben celebrated his birthday by killing his dad. Ben took Locke to see Jacob on his Birthday. Ben’s birthday is in December.
What the heck were Roger and Emily doing hiking in December when she is 7 months pregnant?
The question to Richard, “you do remember birthdays?” Was this a reference to the purge or to Richard’s age?
Didn’t Jacob look alot like Horace? And when Horace said his name, “Horace Goodspeed,” did anyone else think of the “The Rock” where Dr. Goodspeed and Mason discussed the origin of the name?
Couple of other things:
Naomi is definitely Dharma. Doc’s seems to be right on about Naomi being a Dharma operative. Is she there to restore order, or to kill Desmond? or both?
Locke is in the process of returning the island to its natural form.
I am convinced that the submarine was a prop. Especially since the extra’s on the Dharma video (where candle appeared to be wearing the prosthetic arm) were shown “arriving.”
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 10, 2007 @ 9:27 am
I just watched it again, and a couple of small(?) things jumped out at me, like…
- Ben’s jumpsuit doesn’t have a Darma patch, unlike EVERYTHING else on site. Foreshadowing? Probably.
- Richard is looking a lot more clean cut (despite his rag clothes) during the purge, including a nice looking watch. This make me think that there is an others beneficiary during that time and they are much more sophisticated than they appear.
-Kate has totally lost the badass instinct she started the series with. A symptom of pregnancy or her crush on Jack? Whatever it is, she is becoming more and more disappointing.
Personally, I think Richard is holding more strings than we give him credit for. Just because he seems passive, doesn’t mean he isn’t aggressive. I am looking forward to learning more about him. I especially want to get a good look at his toes…
Comment by babelfish — May 10, 2007 @ 9:34 am
The “others”, the same ones who took Walt, wore fake beards for some reason…maybe to appear like wild people or what? They wanted to hide their real identity.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 9:50 am
Ben’s comment, “You do remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?”
and the fact that Richard hasn’t really aged seems like some sort of obvious clue.
It appears that Richard seems (to Ben) to be so old that he doesn’t even think about the passage of time. (it passes as a sarcastic remark)
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 9:57 am
very nice… very nice…
Comment by jimyy — May 10, 2007 @ 10:09 am
My theory on Ben and Jacob - they are one in the same. When Jacob says “Help me” it is Ben projecting - he is the one that wants help. Since he can’t say it himself he “creates/projects” a person to say it for him. Kind of a dual personality. Any thoughts????
Comment by DJ — May 10, 2007 @ 10:37 am
alright i got one for ya, its a stretch but i think its still interesting
for arguments sake lets say ben was recruited by alpert because of his gift, and that alpert knew he would be able to speak to jacob.
lets then say that ben and jacob did converse and planned the purge together.
then lets say after the purge ben lost his ability to speak to jacob but continues to pretend he can.
flash forward, the others (especially alpert) are starting to catch on, and they see the same gift in locke.
ben, threatened by this, presents locke with his father, and orders to kill him. (hes a good liar remember, lets say his plan WAS for locke to kill cooper)
then, after that he reluctanly agrees to take locke to jacob, but is shocked and surprised at lockes ability to speak with jacob.
aaaaaaaaanyways, long story short. could there be a connection (maybe a god-like, holy father style thing), between killing ones father, and losing the ability to talk to jacob…. i know it doesnt make a whole lotta sense but im tired so there
Comment by mandy — May 10, 2007 @ 10:48 am
The other “others”, the ones that “Richard” was a part of when he met the young Ben, were the crew of the Black Rock. Richard was a strong member of the crew.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 11:03 am
If “Jacob”(whoever that turns out to be) has become some sort of time-warping energy being, then the sort-of semi-circle-ish path of gray matter may be something like iron filings. Something that would have a reaction with pure energy as it passes over it. Like a generator. Perhaps a generator of all sorts of things.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 11:21 am
When Ben is about to open the door, he says,
“Jacob, I’m here with John Locke.”
Doesn’t that imply that Jacob was familiar with Locke? Otherwise, he would have said something like, “I’ve brought a friend” or something.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I keep reading these responses where you guys are speculation on the spiritual duality of Jacob and a possible “other” presence on the island. Jacob is good, the other presence is bad. Also you mention people who are righteous can see and hear Jacob.
Let me tell you this. These events have happened before. You want clues to what this is all about, then go back and watch every single “Echo” themed episode in the show.
-It was Echo who went from being a drug runner/murderer to a saved/reformed priest. (redemption/salvation)
-It was Echo who saw his dead brother on the island just as Ben did.
I cannot believe that Echo’s role in this show was to simply die as a victim at the hands of an then unknown force. I tell you, there are clues in his episodes. I’m going to do some research and go back and watch them again.
Echo
Echo
Echo
This mystery begins with him.
Comment by Elephants Gerald — May 10, 2007 @ 11:41 am
When I reply, to comments, it doesn’t come out that way, even though I click on the comment to reply to.
(Pardon the poor grammar, there)
How do I make this right?
By the way, it’s fairly obvious that Ben is freaking his wig (so-to-speak) when he sees that Locke has heard something.
I agree with the folks that are saying that Ben was either:
a) Pretending to experience Jacob or,
b) Was happy that Locke couldn’t see him, or,
c) Ben was seeing and hearing Jacob and didn’t want Locke to have the self-same “special relationship”, or
d) Ben has lost it and Locke has it, which made Ben freak-out and shoot Locke (which is a part of premise ((a))
I still think that Jacob sounds like Sawyer. I still think that Ben called him, phonetically, “Soy”, not “Sir”.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 11:43 am
When I reply, to comments, it doesn’t come out that way, even though I click on the comment to reply to.
(Pardon the poor grammar, there)
How do I make this right?
By the way, it’s fairly obvious that Ben is freaking his wig (so-to-speak) when he sees that Locke has heard something.
I agree with the folks that are saying that Ben was either:
a) Pretending to experience Jacob or,
b) Was happy that Locke couldn’t see him, or,
c) Ben was seeing and hearing Jacob and didn’t want Locke to have the self-same “special relationship”, or
d) Ben has lost it and Locke has it, which made Ben freak-out and shoot Locke (which is a part of premise ((a))
I still think that Jacob sounds like Sawyer. I still think that Ben called him, phonetically, “Soy”, not “Sir”.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 11:44 am
When I reply, to comments, it doesn’t come out that way, even though I click on the comment to reply to.
(Pardon the poor grammar, there)
How do I make this right?
By the way, it’s fairly obvious that Ben is freaking his wig (so-to-speak) when he sees that Locke has heard something.
I agree with the folks that are saying that Ben was either:
a) Pretending to experience Jacob or,
b) Was happy that Locke couldn’t see him, or,
c) Ben was seeing and hearing Jacob and didn’t want Locke to have the self-same “special relationship”, or
d) Ben has lost it and Locke has it, which made Ben freak-out and shoot Locke (which is a part of premise ((a))
I still think that Jacob sounds like Sawyer. I still think that Ben called him, phonetically, “Soy”, not “Sir”.
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Richard doesn?t age (I think that is obvious). I think that a lot of people on the island do not age. TPTB have said that the island heals based on a person’s character. One form of this healing would be increased cell regeneration. That is why Jin is now fertile, Rose no longer has cancer, Locke can walk again, and Richard doesn?t age. Ageing is a process of cells dieing. On the island that doesn?t happen. When someone becomes pregnant, the boosted immune system treats the fetus like an infection (or cures cancer). Don?t worry about Locke, he will be fine.
I also think that there is a certain connection between Smokey and Jacob. Either they are one and the same or Jacob controls Smokey (this is not clear yet). But one way or the other, Smokey/Jacob can read minds and materialize into different forms. Those people who interact well with them have a chance to redeem themselves. Yes, they will be judged (Eko did not repent his sins and was therefore judged and killed) but if they pass judgment, they will be redeemed. Or something like that.
So if you meet Smokey or one of his apparitions and pass the test (Ben having to wait for decades, Locke not showing fear) you are accepted as one of the “others”. Alpert saw promise in Ben and recruited him to help the natives get rid of the scientists who were interfering with the mystical properties of the island. Afterwards, it turned out Ben has a greater connection with Jacob than the rest. So he becomes the leader and takes direction from Jacob.
But absolute power absolutely corrupts. And now he is a false prophet. He has imprisoned Jacob and Jacob is angry and is using Smokey to take it out. Now, however, Jacob has a new pupil. We will see what happens to him.
Lastly (and thanks for reading this long), take a look at the four noble truths of Buddhism.
THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS:
1. All is suffering (dukkha).
2. Suffering is caused by desire/attachment.
3. If one can eliminate desire/attachment, one can eliminate suffering.
4. The Noble Eight-fold Path can eliminate desire. Extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification should be avoided.
Anyone we know suffered in the past? Locke maybe? Ben too. These two specifically have suffered in the past and therefore are closer to “nirvana” or enlightenment. They also have rid themselves of attachment. Locke especially (he is on his own journey). But if you take a look at the 8th fold path, you will notice that Locke is much closer to the true path. I guess we will see where that leads?
Comment by Jordan — May 10, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Jacob started the great and wonder oz routine when Locke began to repeat his words to ben. It wasn’t when he turned on the flashlight, it was right when Locke said, “You said, ‘h…” I think to prevent Locke from telling Ben what was said. To prevent Ben from knowing that Jacob could be heard by Locke.
The text, with the CC turned on, has Ben saying “sorry” not “sawy”
Comment by TabulaRasa — May 10, 2007 @ 11:57 am
You have made me realize my own mistake. How would the sailors of a wooden ship like the Black Rock be able to speak in late 20th century American English? Especially considering Hanso?
Comment by rosemeow — May 10, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
Did anyone notice that the rabbit looked like it had red eyes? Made me think of Donnie Darko - the movie involving dimensions and time travel etc. (very fitting here).
It just seemed like the camera stayed on the rabbit for so long it might be special (I mean more than the obvious “Alice in Wonderland” bit).
Comment by Jimm 17 — May 10, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
i think u r right , i too agree Ben is Jacob.that both the characters are played by michael emmerson. just compare their nose -of ben and jacob, they r way too similar.
Comment by italiana — May 10, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
1. Ben can’t hear Jacob anymore. He could once, but lost that ability when he killed his father.
2. Ben is afraid of Locke. Locke is a rival for power.
3. Ben tries to trick Locke into killing his own father so that Locke won’t be able to hear Jacob
4. But Locke didn’t kill his father, so he could.
5. How would Locke know that Richard is evil?
6. Does Locke have some kind of personal beef with Mikhail? Does he keep beating him up to silence him?
7. Why is the architecture of Jacob’s house so different from anything else on the island?
Comment by Drakoi — May 10, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
i agree with you dj. i think Jacob is a manifestation by Ben with the help of smokey, that is by controlling the power of smokey.
Comment by italiana — May 10, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Tabula Rasa- I am also convinced the submarine is a prop. We have never seen it move, and noone has ever arrived on the island awake and aware of exactly how they got there moment by moment. Richard has been on and off the island, and, it has yet to be explained how jacob “healed” juliette’s sister-was she brought to the island? Did someone go there? Who filmed her at the park?. One of the biggest reveals will be how people get onto the island. Some have been drugged (Juliette, locke’s father) those on the ‘plane’[which plane?] were unconscious [probably gassed]
[I would LOVE to see the show moving Off Island in future seasons. It would make sense for the lostaways to figure out how some have been coming and going, and for them to continue the mystery off island by coming and going and searching for Dharma remnants and other reasons which i can think of dozens.]
Comment by Hawaiiheaven — May 10, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
It is Terence Stamp.
Don’t say, “No it isn’t.” Because it IS!
If you say, “Whose Terence Stamp?” (Well… shame on you!) Terence Stamp is General Zod in Superman 2, also in Star Wars as Chancellor Valorum, also in Haunted Mansion (with Marsha Thomason who plays Naomi,) he was also in Alias (JJ Abrams’ friend?)
It is most definitely without a doubt Terence Stamp. Spread the word and credit me!
Comment by 7ate9 — May 10, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
Hello
Is there any official information abouth Locke’s death?Because the wound doesnt seem to be on his left kidney(look at the image here: http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bscap0004gb2.jpg) As seen, it is far from the kidney.
Comment by sephiroth — May 10, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
that was great when locke kicked the hell out of that one guy.. great part and i thought it was very necessary
im frickin sick of jack–write him off the fuckin show already!
Comment by keith — May 10, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
Drokai - do you remember that Mickial knew Locke’s name in the episode where Mickial’s house blew up? When Locke threw him across the invisible fence and he beat him up in yesterday’s ep, Locke is hiding a past history with Dharma. Remember the weird group he was with in one of his flashbacks?
Comment by MeL — May 10, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
you might be on to something. But Pot growing hippies in california are not exactly a rarity. I do think Mikhail knows locke more than just from watching ‘the internetsss”
Comment by Drakoi — May 10, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
to mel did you not watch i think it was one of us which showed how mikhailnew the history of the losties,also i think this ep did jump the shark they never did answer who jacob was indeed we still don’t even know if he is real, and dharma bha drama more like, put shame the the mysterious psychology orientation video pants!
Comment by nickk — May 11, 2007 @ 5:32 am
On a side note, I find the low percentage (compared to other polls) of people who loved this ep to be interesting considering how much interest (you can tell by the number of comments since the ep ended) “The Man Behind the Curtain” sparked. I wonder if a lot of people are frustrated because they didn’t get the definite answers they were hoping for, or if a lot of people simply didn’t enjoy it (which I would find hard to believe)…
Comment by cap10tripps — May 11, 2007 @ 6:21 am
clearly richard doesn
Comment by lostaddict — May 11, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
Michael Emerson said on an interview that Locke’s kidney is important to his survival. check darkufo for the spoiler
Comment by Drakoi — May 11, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
The girl is KATE!!!!! The little girl that was friends with Ben when he was young is Kate….same nose, same coloring..Kate loves those Dharma chocolate bars and so did the little girl.
Comment by Lostaddict — May 12, 2007 @ 10:51 am