Lost 3.18 D.O.C Vote and Discuss Thread!
Okay people, here is where you chime in on D.O.C! Basically the learnings are as follows:
- Jin is the father of Sun’s Baby
- Juliet left a recording for her people and said ‘I hate you’ off the record. Maybe she isn’t so bad after all.
- Parachute girl speaks a lot of languages! What did she say to Patchy in Italian? Anybody? Can we trust her?
- Patchy is alive, and in need of some Q-Tips
- The Medical hatch was not really cleaned out. Everything was put in a secret room. Sneaky others!
- Didn’t it Seem like Patchy came there expecting to find somebody, rather than just by chance. (As in he was expecting a signal Flare)
- It looks like Juliet’s mission is taking some sort of sample from the Beach women, and Kate is of particular interest. (I’ll bet you $10 it’s pregnancy tests.)
- Patchy REALLY wanted the satellite phone!
- According to parachute girl, Oceanic 815 was found and everybody was dead!
What did you think? Give your vote and discuss!
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It seems Locke did not recruit Sawyer to deal with Anthony
Cooper after all. So why does Locke want Ben dead? As usual the questions usually outnumber the answers at the end of each episode!
Comment by Alaine — April 25, 2007 @ 8:45 pm
We also see in the preview Sawyer demanding from Locke something like “Why did you really bring me!?” So I think Locke is actually brining him there to confront Cooper/Seward/Sawyer at the behest of the Others and just telling him it’s Ben.
See, they want Locke to chill with them, so they’ll have Sawyer kill Cooper, since Sawyer is an expendable murderer.
Comment by Will — April 25, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
It seems the theory for an alternate timeline might make sense… or does it?
Comment by anonymous — April 25, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
I read on lost pedia, that the parachute girl didn’t say “thank you” to Mikhail but actually said ” I’m not alone”
Comment by Meg — April 25, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
The tragic, beautiful, exceedingly well-conceived love story of Jin and Sun just got deeper, more tragic and more beautiful… Sun is an amazingly complex character!
This was a very satisfying episode, even compared with some of the jaw-dropping ones we’ve seen the past few weeks.
I wonder how Juliet gets the samples… eeew…
Comment by tomfishstory — April 25, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
I believe Locke is referring to Cooper when he says “I snuck into Ben’s tent and kidnapped HIM,” in response to a question such as “How did you get ahold of Cooper?” I think the preview is purposely misleading but will turn out to be about Cooper.
Comment by bonagua — April 25, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
Yes, I am pretty sure she told Mikhail I’m not alone. I don’t speak Italian, but I can speak Portuguese and they are similar.
Comment by kaykiwi — April 25, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
I’m 100% positive she said, “I’m not alone”.
This episode was a 10.0 on the richter scale for me.
-Mikhail was expecting someone.
-Juliets face bothers me.
-WTF is this 815 no survivors stuff?!?! OMG! ;[
Comment by Paradise LOST — April 25, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Notice the difference between Ben and Desmond: One keeps his word without fail, the other lies consistently.
90 days on the island? That makes it Dec 14, 2004 (Island Time).
If the Mothers die in the second trimester, then it is more than reasonable to assume that the fetus dies too.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 25, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
I found this to be a great episode and I’m glad I wasn’t totally spoiled by Dark’s insiderscoop ( I think I’ve broken free from reading those finally).
Anyway the reveals were great and I was hoping that Jin was the father because they’re love story has been IMO the best throughout the series. They have their ups and downs but like Rose and Bernard, I hope things work out for them.
I’m glad the whole prisoner storyline came full circle subtely tonight by also revealing that Sawyer and Kate were taken not only as leverage, but to mate as well. I think the other women are just back ups incase the background survivors have gotten down with each other off screen.
Alittle nitpick with the timeline…if it’s day 90 and the DOC was 53 days ago…that would make the time they conceived the child to be on day 47 where Jin was still with the tailies. But I guess we can overlook that and just say they conceived the morning of Day 49 when Hurley gave Jin the thumbs up in “What Kate Did”.
I’ll go with Carlton’s not so sly comments during a podcast a few weeks ago and say that the fence wasn’t turned up all the way so Mikhail survived and healed quickly as he so obviously put it tonight.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — April 25, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Yeah, portuguese: “Nao estou so” - matching with the portuguese (european, not brasilian, based on the accents) spoken by the dudes at the artic/antartic station. Then again, her portuguese was tough to understand due to her gringa accent…
So, of course, Patchy is now on the hunt for Parachute Girl’s colleagues.
Finally, did Patchy have some deal worked out with Locke about faking his death at the buzzer fence? And, speaking of the buzzer fence, when Smoky chased Juliet and Kate, why did it stop at the activated fence, why could smoky just go OVER the fence, like the humans did when they used the log to bridge the fence? Maybe Smoky is not truly sentient or intelligent in the conventional sense, maybe it just a sort of animated, albeit deadly, mirror. Perhaps, just like a mirror, it is dumber than a bag of hammers, since it cannot think for itself to use a stick to cross an obstacle - chimp-level stuff - or even elevate (which it can indeed do), change shape, and reach up and over the fence to reach it prey (Juliet and Kate). But I digress…
Comment by Erick — April 25, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
“I wonder how Juliet gets the samples… eeew…”
See, I’m thinking…
“I wonder how Juliet gets the samples… yeeeaaaah!”
Comment by AlienX42 — April 25, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
Bob. When they do a DOC its more of an estimant not an actual date. So somewhere around 45 days ago she had gotten pregnant. Just to clear things up. Tally o
Comment by Gimpy — April 25, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
Solid business. Part of me wonders if the whole alternate time-line thing may be out losting Lost. Logic following that it is well within the realm of the possible that the same clandestine heavily funded operation that built all of these bunkers with secret compartments could theoretically fudge the true fate of flight 815. Or not. I’m also getting the feeling from the trailers that the twist isn’t that Jack is dirty, but that everyone thinks he’s dirty and they betray him due to this unfounded suspicion. Or not. All in all good stuff.
Comment by B — April 25, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
It is so obvious that the information is false, and her message to Mikhail was a subtle hint to those of us who will seek out the translation. She is a ringer put there to keep them confused.
Comment by docarzt — April 25, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
Oh, and Ben may mean that he was born on the island in the sense that he was resurrected on the island and found some higher calling. This is assuming that Mikhail actually died and came back to life though…stranger things have happened. Could be another red herring. Probably very wrong.
Comment by B — April 25, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
One word: purgatory
Comment by Boss — April 25, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Like tomfishstory, I was very impressed by the continued unfolding of the Sun/Jin story.
But of course I also want to know how Patchy faked his own death, what Juliet is really up to (peel the layers of THAT onion), why Jack’s wearing a red shirt, why Hurley fired that flair and said “Oops.” Why the new girl is not just bilingual but multilingual, and of course the obvious questions concerning the ‘real’ fate of Flight 815 and its passengers.
Comment by Lance — April 25, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
Couple of things: It’s ABOUT 90 days since the crash, not 90 exactly. Juliet said it was a Saturday, which pretty much corresponds to Dec. 18, 2004, day 88 (Lostpedia has the official timeline)
Second, ITS NOT PURGATORY! The producers have said that about as many times as they’ve said Christian is dead. I bet the whole “they found the plane” thing is that the others crashed a dummy plane. If there really were dead bodies found, 5 will get you 10 they were the bodies from the front section or were dug up from the tail section beach. Most likely the front section; they never did burn or bury or do ANYTHING with those bodies. I’ll bet it was intentionaly on the part of the writers, they knew we the viewers would forget about them just like Jack, Kate and Charlie did.
Comment by Jeff — April 25, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
Doc, I think you’re right about the nature of DHARMA. “I’m not alone.” There comin baby, look out…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 25, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
A few thoughts, some not necessarily directly related to D.O.C.:
1. How was Ben born on the Island if all the pregnant mothers there die? Unless he was conceived off the island as we learned in Catch 22 and again tonight…
2. Perhaps the “sonic boom” fence is meant to incapacitate and not kill? Mikhail knew he was in for a bad hangover, but nothing more.
3. I also picked up on the “I am not alone” translation immediately…but was that directed at Mikhail, or Hurley/Desmond/Charlie?
4. Did Mikhail see the beacon the night before when the rest of the guys did? Or did he respond to the flare Hurley set off?
5. Juliet is obviously still helping the others, but last episode we were made to perceive her as sinister and conniving but with the “I hate you” line in this episode, perhaps she’s doing it very begrudgingly? Does she think there’s a way for Ben to to get her off the Island now…maybe something to do with Mikhail getting his hands on that sat phone?
Comment by Scott — April 25, 2007 @ 11:14 pm
Just FYI, what the parachute girl said in Chinese is “What happened?”
Comment by Joe — April 25, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
The New Girl Is Micheals’s Baby’s Mama …Walt’s Mom
Comment by JRog — April 25, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
I’m going to guess the smoke-thing is probably more intelligent than the average LOST fan.
I’m surprised no one has ventured to guess the reason why the thing didn’t hop over the fence was because it didn’t know it was activated. Still, none of us even know the nature the smoke-thing, so how can anyone even think there’s some kind of inconsistency with its action?
Comment by D — April 26, 2007 @ 12:38 am
Here are my thoughts…..
She definatly said “I’m not alone” so I think she in with the others camp, its just to much of a coincedence. Its all a set-up by the others to further confuse the losties, who knows it might be a set-up by Dharma and may be in on it. Alternate timelines would ruin the show.
Comment by fabcos — April 26, 2007 @ 12:39 am
The others lose communication. Mikhail knows they’ll be coming. He sees the beacon and/or flare and comes running. DHARMA is here…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 1:39 am
When Naomi said shes “not alone” she obviously meant in the sense that she has been funded for this little expedition by Penny or her fathers company Widmore Industries! She is not an other that would ruin it for me if its revealed she was. Why go that far to screw with the losties that much? She was referring to Penny when she said she wasnt alone END OFF!
I really liked this weeks episode as many people have previously posted, it further deppened the relationship between the characters of Sun and Jin, Plus any episode which focuses on Sun is good in my book she is GORGEOUS! THE BEST OF ALL THE WEOMEN ON THE ISLAND!
And finally speaking as a British guy loved the fact that Naomi could speak all those languages but in the end she came back to her native tounge english in that good old british accent! Makes you proud!
Comment by 24luke — April 26, 2007 @ 1:44 am
Looking back, it seems that Patchy wanted the flame destroyed. He may be a remnant of DHARMA. The others are either remnants of DHARMA themselves (with a rogue leader) or (more likely now) have been using DHARMA’s equipment and spared Mikhail, because he could run the flame station. Remember, Ben gets frustrated with Mikhail when his walkie is off. It seems that maybe Mikhail is particularly frustrating, because he’s always disobeying a man he does not want to follow. I think he wants them (DHARMA) to come to the island…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 1:49 am
So…
What do you think the range is for a helicopter to travel across the open ocean?
100 miles? 1,000 miles? 10,000 miles?
me thinks there must be a ship nearby.
But then again it could be AirWolf!
Comment by bad joke — April 26, 2007 @ 1:51 am
And remember, Widmore is in cahoots with DHARMA…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 1:51 am
The parachut girl is speaking portuguese when she tells patchy ” I
Comment by ana — April 26, 2007 @ 2:50 am
OK 1) The plane: it was found off the coast of Australia (or anywhere, really, just not close to THE island) and it was ASSUMED that everybody had died…
2) It is Cooper, that Sawyer and Locke will plan to kill. Locke still needs some more info about the island to kill him… yet.
3) The parachute girl is with the 2 portuguese guys we saw
4) Can someone tell me, what are the numbers Sun’s dad (MR. Paik?) pushes to open up is safe? Don’t tell me it’s THE number? lol I don’t know but I am asking!
5) juliet is not a bad person but she might be encountering the “Lucifer Effect”
Comment by MC — April 26, 2007 @ 3:19 am
Not too impressed with Sun Jin epsisode but I guess the story needed to be told. Trying to figure out why Naomi is speaking all these languages. Pick one and be happy with it.
Getting irritated.
Comment by Mad Dog Detroit — April 26, 2007 @ 3:36 am
i agree with the widmore possibility..but who knows!
as for a ship..anyone remember the St Anthony..? think back. harder. but im not sure if thats really canon…
what if ben was created by/on the island? seems an odd thing to say..but hey…its lost.
waheey for patchy
Comment by MW — April 26, 2007 @ 3:39 am
had a thought: the island likes stasis; people dont get born (..er..ignoing ben..maybe), and its not keen on them dying either (where possible).
to my mind, this notion of stasis fits with Dharma’s intrests in the island - i.e. their trying to control the valenzetti variables…er..if the LE was canon, which i dont actually know for sure.
anyway, just a thought i just had
Comment by MW — April 26, 2007 @ 4:14 am
Looking back, it seems that Patchy wanted the flame destroyed. He may be a remnant of DHARMA.
In Enter 77, Mikhail says, “I was never a member. But everything else I told you was true. I moved into this station after the purge.”
I think this is true. I really do. I think when we finally know all the answers, we will rewatch the shows and repeatedly go, “Woah! They actually were telling the truth.”
So taking out the DHARMA part, this is true: “I grew up in Kiev and joined the Soviet Army. I was stationed at a listening post at Vladivostok. After the Cold War, after we lost the Col War, my unit was decommissioned. I was dismissed from my life in the military. And after years of conducting unpleasant actions against our enemies, I found myself wanting to do something good. So I replied to a newspaper advertisement.” “Would you like to save the world?
Comment by 7ate9 — April 26, 2007 @ 4:26 am
@ kaykiwi
I’m Italian and believe me, italian and portuguese are not at all alike.
Comment by adamax — April 26, 2007 @ 4:28 am
-the stasis theory doesn’t work across the board though. Otherwise how could claire have had aaron or Rousseau have had Alex?
But this bugs me: If men’s sperm count is quintupled why is it that women can’t make it to 3rd trimester? I still wonder if the Others are doing something to the mothers just to get the unborn infants. -Hey look at all the children they’ve gone after.
–And completely switching gears, whether or not the show jumps the shark, I will. What if there ARE multiple timelines going on. Couldn’t Jacob be an alternate version of one of the people already there? (what with desmond flashing back through his past once it just gives a moment’s pause.)
Comment by sandman — April 26, 2007 @ 4:33 am
Guys, I don’t know where you learned your math, but where I grew up, 90-53=37. Sun got pregnant on day 37 (could be the day before she revealed her ability to speak English??) because for the last week or so before the raft set sail, she and Jin were not feeling very happy with each other.
Comment by t — April 26, 2007 @ 4:53 am
slow work day so im posting a lot lol..
it doesnt wrk across the board because in claires case the others purposely set out to ignore the islands internal “rules” - in otherwords, she SHOULDNT have been able to have the baby but for Juliet’s intervention; bear in mind that Juliet was brought to the island to ‘create life where life should not be’.
As for Rosseau, im guessing she was able to have the baby since she concieved off-island, whereas Juliet says that she belives the anti-pregnancy effect is something that happens at the point of conception..er…lol so infact actually i take it back maybe it does work accrss he board afterall now that i actually write all that out :-$
Sandman:
it looks like the others have 2 completely seperate agendas:
1 - getting kids & people to “see” something or other; my guess is that the former survivers who jack saw when he was in the cage were being taught to perceive or understand somthing in particular about the islands special qualities
2 - getting babies born sucessfully, and thus allowing the island to be independantly settled for whatever reason, or to allow their work to continue in perpetuity etc (still not sure what their work or purpose is, of course)
7ate9:
there could be a simpler explanation w/regards to Patchy:
1 - ben said not to shoot because mikhail might have been expecting the losties or rosseau, or just cos hes a bit crazy
2 - mikhail yelled at the losties about being allowed to stay as part of his cover story..which makes a lot of sense, since if he was going to lie to them regarding a “line in the sand” convincingly, he would need to set the scene for that. also note that “the others” territory was past his cottage/bunker and so again, he was probably just trying to make his ex-dharma story as convincing as possible.
The territory comment just makes me think of the others territory tbh. the territory they protected with a sonic fence.
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 4:59 am
@ mw
(Sandman) 2- Wouldn’t it have to do with The Valenzetti Equation ?? Maybe they have to bring babies to term (and mothers to survive) to counterfeit the We-All-Going-to-die equation…???
Comment by MC — April 26, 2007 @ 5:06 am
im going to answer in a roundabout way lol:
Sustainabiliy is at the heart of the Valenzetti equation, as i see it; the vaiables would change when our way of life, or a dharma model of it/an alternative, could be shown to be sustainable.
The ultimate form of sustainability, is stasis: the island is damn near innacessible, and has an amazing capacity to heal those on it who are afflicted by all forms of supposedly incurable diseases, and, further to that, people apparantly dont get ill, normally. I personally belive that the islands powers gave up on ben (for a time at least) because of the way he chose to live his life and control his people: by lies, manipulation, half-truths, and decite - please not that as well as being generally unchristian (lol), these things are also UNSUSTAINABLE.
Note that smokey kiled Mr Ecko for being unrepentant and having belifes that though arguably realistic, were very far from suited to a sustainable social/human environment - he would not see that it is a good idea to acept responsibility/confess/learn from his mistakes.
So…thats both an answer and not quite an answer…i think the island was - in part - a model, for a model way of living - including social systems, belifes, and population density/control. The last of thse factors is a stumbling block, of course…which is i guess why “the others”/dharma/whoever is pulling the strings is so invested in ensuring that there is the possibility of having children born on the island (and having the mothers survive, afterwards!)
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 5:22 am
Observations:
1. It is now around Dec 14, 2004 (90 days)
2. If Sun and Kate compare notes, they will figure out that Claire was not in danger. She would not have affected by the DOC problem.
3. If the mother only makes it to the 2nd Trimester, then the child most likely dies when the mother does.
4. Who is Mikhail working for? Is he trying to hide that he is alive from the Others as well? (Caps, I agree with you right now.)
5. (to D) Smokey cannot pass over the fence because it cannot detach from its anchor point on the ground. (there was an interesting vague allusion to this in a previous podcast)
6. (to MW) If a child is conceived and born on the island, then the variables in Valenzetti equation will have been changed. Thus the end of the world will have been averted.
If Doc Jensen is serious about his theory that pits Nihilism agaist Theism, then the conception and birth of a child outside of the “sight” of God would bring about the “overman”.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 26, 2007 @ 5:43 am
In regards to 815 being found and there being no survivors, I think it was a staged crash to that no one would find the island. Remember in Juliet’s episode that Mittelos Bio-science (sp?) has their own private airport, so maybe the sacrificed a plane and passengers to make the world believe that it had been found.
Comment by Matt — April 26, 2007 @ 5:45 am
This is not an expression of my political views, but here’s a thought: If women die in the second trimester due to pregnancy, why not abort the fetus? This is definitely a set up for a hot topic issue, but in all honesty it seems 100% certain that if carried to term both mother and child die. So what are their other options?
Also, screw Sun for pretending not to know what her husband did for her father. When Mr. Paik tells her that Jin we’ll move from floor manager to working for him personally she knew what that meant!
Also, NO SYMPATHY FOR JULIET! I don’t care what her excuse is for doing what she does (”Oh I want to go home to my sister”) she’s a lying B**ch and I SO wanted Sun to kick her arse.
Also, Charlie, “They started it.” Yeah, one of them hung Charlie and he was dead until Jack brought him back. So take that Desmond! And Goodwin wasn’t killed until after he broke (name escapes me)’s neck.
Also, “I took HIM from Ben’s tent.” Clearly not Ben. Why? A normal person would simply say, “I kidnapped him from his tent,” if they needed to say anything about where they took the person from. It wouldn’t make since to say, “I took Ben from Ben’s tent.”
Finally, I prefer the cover-up of the crash to the alternate reality theory … I know, I know, you wouldn’t think that from my articles, but it’s just more devious and thus makes the story that much more compelling (as opposed to just interesting).
Comment by MerlboroMan — April 26, 2007 @ 5:45 am
Merl,
Though I completly agree that John is talking about his father/the real Sawyer, you’re a bit confused.
John says “I went in to Ben’s tent and took him.” This statement, while meant to mislead us I agree, does logistically make sense that John took Ben.
He doesn’t say “I took him from Ben’s tent” because that WOULD make a world of difference in whether the statement makes sense.
Just saying…
Comment by evangelical poet — April 26, 2007 @ 5:55 am
I am not much a time loop theorist but normal human logic would tell me if there was multi-time lines going on would not they all but one end at the point of the horizon (hatch explosion) hence why life (babies-reproduction) can not happen!? Yes Desmond is looping o change the course of events to prevent the explosion. (he does not know it yet) but everything else past that point is dead. Time is not moving slower but faster. Everytime Desmond loops he pushed the inevitble out further. COurse correction occurs but he is delaying it a bit at a time. Mothers can not give birth to a timeline that no longer exists or has no future.
The island has no healing powers but its fast catch up to Desmonds loops are merely ramping up time making it look like healing happens in a few days.
Of course if this is the case the rise and fall of the sun makes no sense at all. It appears that the rotation of the earth is still occurring at a normal rate or someone would have realized this by now. The basis of all time is based upon the sun. Gee Losties the sun is still rising and still setting at normal paces.
BUT……
Lets be real here folks everything on this show makes little sense and at this point is looking EXTREMELY SCI-FI of which all SCI-FI is based upon human logic fantasizing. Time travel, time looping, islands with healing powers, Moving islands, Sky islands, ocean jumping islands, islands no one even God cannot see, pandoras box, manesfestations, not mention male rats bearing children……Ok you get the idea…. it is all far fetched, unbelieveable and not possible.
Hence, IF you are going to accept any of that as possible on LOST there has to be something that is absolute, everything hinges on at least 1 absolute. Not sure I know what that is yet. and as a TV show it can certianly make up its own reality.
Back to the script……Widmore has the resources to fake a crash. While the game changer lies in the next two weeks, time travel looping if indeed is true will be wrapped up soon and ANOTHER bigger mystery is to follow. After all the “WHO Are we” is out of the bag now!
Comment by thirdflr — April 26, 2007 @ 6:13 am
Doc, you said it. I was thinking it immediately.
If the others are so sneaky about walking through the jungle and they can kidnap Cindy before anybody realizes it then why was Mikhail running through the jungle like a bull through a china shop? He was waiting for that flare to go off. He knew she was bringing a satellite phone (maybe because he has a charger?). They staged the whole thing. They made up the phony they’re all dead story and made a fake chopper crash. This is just more others mind tricks.
Comment by thefallguy1 — April 26, 2007 @ 6:16 am
tabularasa:
very good point, i hadnt thought about the valenzetti equation being fulfilled in that way, though…i think it depends on which way yu interpret the equation:
1-the equation takes into account everything on earth a it were, and need not be scaed up and down - thus it automatically accounts for the effects of a child being born somewhere like the island, or the island specifically; perhaps the equaion is inteded to be generally predictive of the future, as indicated in the attempted-genocide figures that the hanso foundation provided the unnamed african nation/leader, and as such is abe to map the distance between the butterfly beating its wings and the eventual hurricane, if you catch my drift: in other words, it can map the effect of children/a child being born on the island over the years, and someone has decided that this should be done…?
2-the equation merely assigns a range of acceptable populations (and other factors, and their interdependancies) as contributing to the eventual and innevitable end of mankind, and can be scaled up or down to allow for experimentl colonies such as perhaps the island to function as acceptable test models
the difference lies really in how predictive you believe the equation to be…ive been assuming a varient of 2, because i felt it more realistic, however…now that you mention it, i really cant see why 1 shouldnt be the case - this is fiction, afterall!!
the outside the sight of god thing…well…maybe, and quite possibly. that would certainally add depth to the notion of Jacob being something akin to a fallen angel: “god loves you as he did jacob”; he didnt love jacob or was willing to se harm come to him etc - actually i forget the bible story and havent time to check atm, but will do later. anyway, if it is to be that way..well…ill be a little surprised, but maybe - ive always felt the show to be more generally alluding to religious themes (broad terms: a god, but not necessarily any particular named god, themes of repentance and judgement, but..well…differently) and as such i really cant see there being anything so ostensibly theologically orientated as an angel…but then again, i cant say whats going on in the writers minds!
i havent red doc’s theory on that, but i will. sounds a bit Nitzchean to me.
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 6:17 am
thirdflr:
Major falling-down point: babies couldnt be born BEFORE the hatch exploded, either.
otherwise i did like the reasoning generally, but alas…nah..also, i sem to recall talk of ben being healed after visiting a monument…and all the holy aussie monk-man’s talk of special places with special energy…it sems to me that wasnt just a red herring, although granted it might be…but..no…i think that i categorically dont much like the alternate timeline buisness…lol, evn though it may end up being true, i just dont like it at all….too convenient as a plot device for my liking..i want a mystery, not a blase’ explanation about looping and seperating timelines lol
Time travel stories tend towards the convoluted rather than the complex, if you get my meaning
PS - sorry for all my typos today; this keyboard needs changing..keeps skipping keys on me..bad action
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 6:26 am
Interesting point about Patchy.. where it almost seemed that he was expecting a flare gun. Could he be working with Penny too? Expecting Noami? I don’t think so… He sure wanted the Satellite Phone, but I think that it was more of a coincidence that Hurley happened to tell him about it.
I’m more amazed by the healing properties of the island, but also confused. If he was healed from the fence, (remember, lots of people said it looked like he was still breathing, if Noami is going to be healed in a day, but Boone didn’t heal when injured. Lockes leg healed pretty quick too(think about it.. the lockdown came down on his leg, it’s been what.. 30 days? And there are no signed of injury?) You would think that people on the beach would notice small wounds that heal quickly. I also wonder why the ‘marshall’ and others died on the beach.
Comment by tom — April 26, 2007 @ 6:28 am
ANSWER TO COMMENT 3:The parachute girl words to Patchy were in Portuguese. She said “Eu nao estou so”, which means “I’m not alone”.
Comment by lostcause — April 26, 2007 @ 6:38 am
i gues if its serious beyond the bounds of conventional healing, then youre just screwed; lockes leg healed faster because the tistes and bones simply grew together much faster and more cleanly than normally, but falling off a cliff is still falling off a cliff, and being shot in the heart is still being shot in the heart.
I note with intrest that nikki and paulo were poisoned for the full 8 hours, and so presumably the island wont necessarily aid the body in breaking down a poison etc, and only helps in cellular regeneration type situations (used in the broadest sense, as i am not a doctor lol). the same effect that promotes sperm count/development seems to aid the growth of any other cells, too..and if cancer generally doesnt happen, then i guess it aids in the regulation of cell growth, too…but was ben’s tumor MORE aggressive/faster growing, once it started growing, do we think? OR, are we merely meant to take the islands powers as being mystical, and that they merely apply where and when they apply? thats not a criticism lol: if the writers intend it that way, its fine by me
lost still kicks ass either way 
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 6:40 am
…this really, really is a slow work day.
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 6:40 am
I don’t think Jin is the father still.
I think Juliet said that and left a recording for Ben so when Sun lives (because she got preggers off the island) it will be looked as a miracle and thus be Juliet’s excuse to be able to leave the island.
Juliet is out for herself, Sun ain’t dying.
Comment by cekma — April 26, 2007 @ 6:45 am
See thats what happens when you do math in the middle of the night =)
My mistake, 90- 53 = 37 which still puts him in the clear. So whether it is Day 88 or 90 Jin still impregnated her back in season 1.
About Mikhail, as I said I don’t think the fence was on full force. If it was he should have been obliterated the moment he crossed it. Instead what he got was a low shock which probably blew out his ear drums and caused some shock. We all know, as he mentioned, the island has a certain healing factor which would attribute to his speedy recovery and ear drum growing back so fast.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — April 26, 2007 @ 6:59 am
Most of the airplane debris from the mid section washed out to sea. Is it possible that is what was found of the plane, with the burned, dead bodies within it, and it was assumed from there that there were now survivors?
Comment by Paralithodes — April 26, 2007 @ 7:06 am
Kate is carrying Sawyer’s baby.
Comment by bec — April 26, 2007 @ 7:11 am
If no survivors were found, then I think we can assume Michael and Walt never made it back to “reality”.
Comment by xolan99 — April 26, 2007 @ 7:15 am
Mikhail and Locke made some sort of agreement at the flame station. Locke can not kill Cooper himself, as seen by the preview, so why would he be able to kill Mikhail? He is not a killer and knew that when he pushed him he would not die. I also think Mikhail and Danielle are Dharma. Both speak multiple languages and Mikhail paid no attention to her when they walked to the sonic fence.
Comment by bdub — April 26, 2007 @ 7:29 am
Naomi : Italian - “help me
Comment by Ivan — April 26, 2007 @ 7:30 am
I agree that the plane being found is probably staged by DHARMA… take away any chance of rescue and you keep your subjects on the island, guaranteed.
Makes you wonder though…if Michael got off the island then wouldn’t he have told his story as a survivor to the press etc?
Comment by Matt — April 26, 2007 @ 7:46 am
MW - you missed my point the island IS the horizon. the crash and Losties are not a timeline in itself. Hence everythign on the island sort of stands still while rapidly moving as well…Make sense?
Comment by thirdflr — April 26, 2007 @ 8:07 am
um…italian and portugese are somewhat similar, whoever the person is above who said they are not AT ALL similar. don’t be so dramatic. spoken, they sound quite different, but written, you can pick out a lot of similar words.
Comment by mariootsa — April 26, 2007 @ 8:11 am
I think Ben said it best when Michael asked him the same thing. Does he really want to admit to killing 2 people and handing over fellow passengers to gain his own freedom?
That and the fact that he would never be able to find this place again…
I gotta say that as much as I love the multiple time travel theories and such, the fact that it’s being alluded to makes me think it’s not as pertinent as it looks.
I think Desmond is the only one who’s moving in an out of multiple loops. And I think the flight was staged to look like it was recovered with no survivors. which means, if they went through the trouble of faking a flight crash to cover up the real crash, then there must be some danger in the island actually being found by a rescue party.
So the mystery is, why bother faking a crash if it’s never going to be found in the first place? We’ve been through enough Bermuda Triangle stories in our lives to just accept that a plane can disappear.
So the Island can be found.
And if a plane crashed in one time loop, is it automatic that it will crash in another loop? Is there yet another loop where the flight landed?? That’s a lot of loops…and hoops and I don’t see this show willing to make that kind of committment to time travel this late in it’s inception. It would be seen as a rip off of Heroes. Time travel explains all….I don’t buy it…I like it but I’m not purchasing it.. I’ll just window shop for now…
Comment by El Prez — April 26, 2007 @ 8:12 am
D.O.C. was another ‘ho-hum’ episode. Ok if you didn’t have anything else to do, but not great. More jump the shark moments like:
-Desmond lets Patchy go
-Patchy is alive (WTF?)
-Too much Korean love story (zzzzz)
-Maternity hatch has a working ultrasound unit
It seems the episodes are going in a pattern. The 1st 2 or 3 in a season are a setup and pretty good…the next 15 or so are complete filler, then there’s one or to average episodes that just set up the finale, which looks to be pretty good. Next season we can watch the epi’s 1-3, skip all of the middle of the season, then just watch the finale and save ourselves a lot of time.
Comment by T — April 26, 2007 @ 8:13 am
Just a thought on Desmond’s photo…
We’ve been told that there are definitely two photos of Desmond and Penne on the island - one with Des and one with “Naomi”. I may be wrong, but last night it looked like the photo was in the corner of a larger piece of paper - not just a standalone photo like Desmond has. (Anybody got a shot of that?)
Do you think maybe the others stole the photo, scanned it, and printed it? Or maybe the photographer kept digital copies? Or maybe Desmond scanned it before he left and emailed it to a friend?
I just think that it’s a stretch to think that the two copies of the photo are indications of alternate timelines, especially after seeing the photo last night.
Comment by Scott — April 26, 2007 @ 8:15 am
I really don
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 8:15 am
Xolan, good point about Mike and Walt.
Bdub, I’m with you. It makes sense that Locke knew he wasn’t going to kill the patch man…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 8:23 am
i thought what you said was that mothers could not give birth on the island because there is no future, effectively. actually im really not sure what you mean at all, sorry!!
lets see:
Quote:
——————————————————-
I am not much a time loop theorist but normal human logic would tell me if there was multi-time lines going on would not they all but one end at the point of the horizon (hatch explosion) hence why life (babies-reproduction) can not happen!? Yes Desmond is looping o change the course of events to prevent the explosion. (he does not know it yet) but everything else past that point is dead. Time is not moving slower but faster. Everytime Desmond loops he pushed the inevitble out further. COurse correction occurs but he is delaying it a bit at a time. Mothers can not give birth to a timeline that no longer exists or has no future.
The island has no healing powers but its fast catch up to Desmonds loops are merely ramping up time making it look like healing happens in a few days.
Of course if this is the case the rise and fall of the sun makes no sense at all. It appears that the rotation of the earth is still occurring at a normal rate or someone would have realized this by now. The basis of all time is based upon the sun. Gee Losties the sun is still rising and still setting at normal paces.
——————————————————-
Im sure you said mothers can not gve birth because the future stopped exisiting, but maybe i have missed..a lot, there.
i think maybe i dont understand what you are saying…
there were multiple timelines, and all but one ended with the explosion? with you so far.
and so..after the explosion..? i dont really see what youre saying, there.
“its fast catch up to Desmonds loops are merely ramping up time ” ..well…no..i..er. i dont really feel…maybe. come again?
i think i see what yure getting at, but that wouldnt explain things which happened before the explosion w/regards to healing - locke’s legs, people not getting ill, mothers not being able to give birth sucessfully…all these things happened before desmonds presence on the island, or before he had the chance to change anything. unless your talking in terms of paradoxes, in which case time on the island has alway been speeding up cos desmond has always already gone back/forwards etc, and that stll doesnt explain nobody getting cancer (.er..bar ben), or Jacob, or…well anyway, this is why have problems with the time travel stuff..though dubtless it is going to crop up, because we already know tha desmond changed something, although..we arent sure about if it was a flashback of him flashing back or etc etc.
quack quack. am lost.
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 8:25 am
I think that once a child is conceived and born on the island, that the child will have the healing properties of the island and be in a sense invincible.
I think Naomi was expected by Mikhail, he did seem pretty surprised to see Hurley and Co when he got to the clearing after the flair gun went off.
I think the others did a cover up of the plane crash to keep people away from the island.
Comment by 1miletogo — April 26, 2007 @ 8:26 am
Great point xolan99! Hadn’t thought of that yet. Only problem would be if Naomi was lying.
Comment by PurdueBen — April 26, 2007 @ 8:28 am
“I think the others did a cover up of the plane crash to keep people away from the island.”
Whats the point if no one can find the Island to begin with? Also the plane vanished, it happens. Wouldnt that be enough? why try to cover up a plane crash that wasnt found in the 1st place.
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 8:29 am
My guess is Juliette is lying. Sun prob got pregnant before she arrived on the island, but Juliette is lying to her and to Ben, so that when the baby and Sun survive she can say she cured the pregnancy problem and finally get off the island.
Thoughts?
Comment by RobotEvan — April 26, 2007 @ 8:38 am
I love how some people are so sure about their “guess” on what is going on on Lost. All we know for sure is that Lost has proven many times, that you can’t always believe what you see, that there is a twist around every corner. So, for all you fans of Lost remember… your guess on what is going to happen next is still just that… a guess…
Comment by LostHead — April 26, 2007 @ 8:50 am
1. Please stop with the purgatory crap. This has been denied since early in season 1 again and again.
2. Naomi is not an other. She was sent by Penny. I think Mikhail saw the flare and was checking it out expecting just someone who crashed. His surprise was seeing thr group there but not because he was expected.
Comment by Akbar Fazil — April 26, 2007 @ 8:56 am
I agree 100% with the poster above who posed the question ” Why not abort? ” I was wondering that myself last night after Sun was told that she would die within 2 months if she continued to carry the child. Is she passed the point where such a thing would be medically possible? She should start looking around for some crazy jungle berry that takes care of the issue.
Also, if Mihcail saw the beacon coming down from the sky, and then a flare he would simply assume that the flare was from whoever had floated to the earth. He could have simply been running towards it to figure out who was in need of assistance to determine how to deal with the situation. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that she would be affiliated with the Others or Dharma to the point that she would recognize Mihcail as one of them and say something secretivly to him, somehow knowing that no one else there spoke Italian. Maybe she just thought he was with all of the other people around her.
I agree also that it was made to look as if Locke had kidnapped Ben via the trailer for next week and that it is probobly an intentional mislead.
It would also hold a lot of water for a major corporation cabable of the things that we have seen so far, and in possession of an airline to stage a crash to prevent people looking near the island.
Comment by Harbringer — April 26, 2007 @ 8:58 am
RobatEvan, good point. I was thinking along the same lines.
Question: Why would Juliette say ‘I hate you’ after the recording? I thought she was on Ben’s rag-tag team of Dharmies?
Theory: Patchy and Locke made some sort of agreement at the flame station, thus Locke knew Patches wouldn’t die when thrown through the sonic fence.
Now that Locke is with the others, he realizes he was deceived and retreat back with his compadres.
And what’s up with Jack and his red shirt?
Comment by freewheelin' — April 26, 2007 @ 8:58 am
RobatEvan, good point. I was thinking along the same lines.
Question: Why would Juliette say ‘I hate you’ after the recording? I thought she was on Ben’s rag-tag team of Dharmies?
Theory: Patchy and Locke made some sort of agreement at the flame station, thus Locke knew Patches wouldn’t die when thrown through the sonic fence.
Now that Locke is with the others, he realizes he was deceived and retreat back with his compadres.
And what’s up with Jack and his red shirt?
Comment by freewheelin' — April 26, 2007 @ 8:58 am
If you are trying to make something of Walt and Michael leaving the island, remember it hasn’t even been 2 weeks since they were let go.
There is a good chance that they haven’t reached mainland yet.
Also, who is to say that they were ever going back to the “real” world. Ben could have just steered them to another island where they have been captured.
Ben did threaten Michael about revealing his part in the murder of Ana-Lucia and Libby if he talked.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 26, 2007 @ 8:59 am
I said the same thing as Robert Evan in a much earlier post. Does anyone notice? Nope.
Comment by cekma — April 26, 2007 @ 9:05 am
Didn’t the island cure Rose’s cancer? Why not Ben’s?
Comment by RobotEvan — April 26, 2007 @ 9:12 am
I think the Island chooses who it will or will not heal.
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 9:13 am
The producers already debunked the purgatory theory…it’d be cheap to bring it back now.
We’ve seen DHARMA is active and well-funded. What’s some plane wreckage and a few corpses? My money is that the “dead” 815 was staged for the media so people would stop looking. In this day and age, that is entirely plausible. Of course, “entirely plausible” isn’t exactly in the writers’ vocabulary.
Comment by Grubby — April 26, 2007 @ 9:20 am
jimmy - either that or the “box” manifested the cancer to set things in motion when Jack arrived. Remember, Juliet was not looking at her sister’s chart, it was Ben’s. He knew he had cancer three months after Juliet arrived. Which means he’s possibly been living with it for 3 years.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 26, 2007 @ 9:21 am
I think that the story about the pregnant women does not ring true. There does not seem to be any information about what happens to the babies they only talk about the mother’s dying. I think as usual they are being lied to. I think that is why Juliet said to Syaid that if you knew the truth you would want to kill me. Whatever the Other’s are doing it is for their own collective benefit and the Losties are expendable. Juliet though is conflicted she is doing the wishes of the Others because she is lied to about her sister and about being able to leave the island. I think as I said last week that her sinister look at the end of “One of Us” means that she is laying a trap for Ben who we now know she hates. I think Jack may be in on her plan.
Comment by H20 — April 26, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Didn’t the podcast last week say that Penny sent Naomi? If Mikhail knew who she was then I’d think he wouldn’t have just run away so soon.
Also, Juliette said it was 6am when she recorded her message. It was light out before they even left for the medical station. Is she lying about the time or do the others work on a set timezone?
Comment by bdub — April 26, 2007 @ 9:26 am
“either that or the “box” manifested the cancer to set things in motion when Jack arrived.”
TabulaRasa - Didn’t Ben say that the “box” could manifest whatever you wanted? Why would Ben want cancer? Unless ur saying the Box can manifest both good and bad things. But Cancer? hmmm
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 9:35 am
Right now it seems to me that the others were pretending to be DHARMA to either take advantage of their resources or to prevent DHARMA from coming back (or both). If that is the case, the island would have lost favor with Ben (”you’re cheating”). His cancer is a way for the island to tell him to knock it off…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 9:40 am
Since the island can apparently heal certain things it may be that it appeared to Jack to be a cancerous tumor but it did not have the effects of cancer on Ben. Much like Rose. Ben knew it was there but it didn’t hurt him so it was a good way to study Jack and see who he would side with.
Comment by bdub — April 26, 2007 @ 9:42 am
Caps… very nice… i like thinking that the Island is a live entity, capeable of making conscience choices like that. If the Others were pretending to be Dharma, then i would assume that Dharma still thinks that they have control over their stations? and the fact that the communcation is down, now they will be coming to the island to see what went wrong?
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 9:45 am
What if Patchy was able to heal and come back to life because he was not buried?
Comment by Spoon — April 26, 2007 @ 9:48 am
I noticed Cekma but thats because I read through every post. I think Patchy saw what Jin and the others saw that morning. He was probably making his way to the coast line then saw the flare. You don’t want anyone using a flare on a island that no one is supposed to find. So he took off running because he was worried whoever fell from the sky might have had something that would jeapordize himself or the Others. Also Hurley always makes goofball mistakes he is the comedic relief in the series. Ha I do like though how Lost has gotten so many people bugaboo they have to chalk everything up to conspiracy.
Comment by Burger — April 26, 2007 @ 9:50 am
People! I’m getting tired of saying this - smokey doesn’t fly, he hovers, meaning that his position in the air is directly related to his position on the ground. A ten-foot fence would be more than sufficient to keep him out.
Comment by goldenmalicious — April 26, 2007 @ 10:21 am
Has anyone concluded that if Patchy is still alive, perhaps the bullet that Miss Klugh took (outside the Flame) may have been a set-up too. Will she resurface as well…
Comment by Desmond's Brutha — April 26, 2007 @ 10:26 am
Has anyone concluded that if Patchy is still alive, perhaps the bullet that Miss Klugh took (outside the Flame) may have been a set-up too. Will she resurface as well…
Comment by Desmond's Brutha — April 26, 2007 @ 10:26 am
That
Comment by Desmond's Brutha — April 26, 2007 @ 10:30 am
That
Comment by Desmond's Brutha — April 26, 2007 @ 10:30 am
I think Ben’s cancer was part of a long con. The promo pics from the brig prove this, I think.
Comment by docarzt — April 26, 2007 @ 10:32 am
here is my theory
the parachutist is really in with the others. she only knew who desmond was, perhaps because she was gathering information on him(We have seen the others get info on everyone). The flare went off and Patchy comes running, which makes me think that she was expected by him. The flight being found with no survivors is just another con by the others.
Another interesting thing, why did Hurley ACCIDENTALLY Shoot off a flare??? is he really working with the others, always the one making list? Fat jacob?
Comment by K.B. — April 26, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I’am Portuguese and the parachut girl clearly said “eu nao estou so” which means “i’m not alone”.
Comment by 2ySxx — April 26, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Doc, the promo also shows Locke’s hand being healed quickly. Isn’t there a supposed idol or sculpture with mysterious healing powers coming into the picture???
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 10:50 am
Plus, why would he want Juliet to think he has cancer? You saw how she reacted. Also, Jack operates on the tumor. That would seem to be way too long(shot) of a con…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 10:52 am
I agree with u Caps… seems too far fetched…
1.) Jack looked at the xrays, he
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 10:56 am
” Isn’t there a supposed idol or sculpture with mysterious healing powers coming into the picture???”
Christ i hope not… That sounds about as gay as a fag in an all boys catholic high school. people are being healed on every part of the island… whats the need for a healing magical statue?
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:00 am
As for next weeks episode:
Does anyone know(besides us) that Locke’s dad is the real sawyer? Cuz it seems odd that he picks sawyer to do his dirty work.
Comment by Supa — April 26, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Does anyone else think that Kate might be pregnant? I mean, she had her little hookups with Sawyer, and Juliet said that men are 5 times as fertile on the island. And who else are the samples coming from? She already got one from Sun, Claire just had a baby (no sex), and Rose (if she’s still on the show) is too old.
Comment by joeschmo — April 26, 2007 @ 11:03 am
i’m dying to know how patchy survived!
Comment by priscilla — April 26, 2007 @ 11:06 am
I would not be at all surprised if we find out Kate’s pregnant. But what I’m wonderind if she contracted any of sawyer’s STD’s…..remember season 1
That would suck for Kate
Comment by Supa — April 26, 2007 @ 11:13 am
i know how he survived!!! Locke and Patchy planned this… right before Locke pushed him into the fence, Patchy quicky put an alkselser into his mouth, got pushed by locke, started to spit up the alkselser, and faked his seziure while Locke made the “buzzing” sounds of the pylon being activated…. i know what ur thinking, impossible right? no… just shear genius. ; )
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Can we agree that Naomi’s words and their implications represent the ‘game-changer’ that we’ve been told to expect this season, or at least the beginning of it?
Either way, we have to remember that, judging from what we have been told by the producers, the game-changer is going to represent a change to the KIND of story that is being told, and not merely the introduction of a new layer of conspiracy or whatever.
Therefore, those of you who think that the Others/Dharma/whoever deliberately crashed a fake plane, or that the wreckage of the front section was found and everyone was declared dead, or that NO wreckage was found and everyone was declared dead, have to ask yourselves this: would those explanations ‘change the game’? The answer is, no, they woudn’t. In fact, not only would they not change the game, they wouldn’t even be particularly interesting to watch. Why would they give us such a jaw-dropping cliffhanger such as the one we saw last night if the resolution were going to turn out to be so prosaic? Okay, I realise that Lost likes its red herrings, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar even on this show, and everything about that ending screamed, ‘THIS IS IMPORTANT.’
Basically, what I’m saying is that if you subscribe to the NON-alternative universe view, you cannot also believe that Naomi’s words represent the (beginning of) the game-changer.
In which case, ask yourselves this: if it’s not that, what DO you think it’s going to be?
Comment by Jem — April 26, 2007 @ 11:17 am
MW - Yes mothers can not give birth because there is no future on this island. Doc and others have all theorized of the island being a threshold likened to an event horizon. all time lines come to this point and all end, yet another one starts or one keeps going.
My thinking is that birth can not exist on plane with no time in its future. (BTW I am not a subscriber to the island is a living breathing existance with a conscience….that is just too weird….to apply a spiritual form onto a phyiscal one. While this makes sense to those who watch alot of movies, it doesn’t in real life)
Think of this like a big black hole of time everything gets sucked into it the spiraling tornado of time/space. The close you get to the vortex the faster it spins down/up.Once at the cusp of the tornado time stops. (kind of like a vacuum cleaner, the ant lives on the carpet but once sucked into the sweep, hsi life is over but yet the journey still has course, it has several more curves, twists, turns and the velocity triples with each inch.)
“Major falling-down point: babies couldnt be born BEFORE the hatch exploded, either.”
Correct, the island is the place existance stops being.
“….i sem to recall talk of ben being healed after visiting a monument”
I don’t remember this anywhere on the Show…maybe TLE or someone else’s theory….I might be wrong but I don’t remember this at all.
“…Time travel stories tend towards the convoluted rather than the complex, if you get my meaning :(”
Man I totally agree, currently this is show is hinting at alot of SCI-FI stuff which I have little interest in.
“i think i see what yure getting at, but that wouldnt explain things which happened before the explosion w/regards to healing - locke’s legs, people not getting ill, mothers not being able to give birth sucessfully…all these things happened before desmonds presence on the island, or before he had the chance to change anything. unless your talking in terms of paradoxes, in which case time on the island has alway been speeding up cos desmond has always already gone back/forwards etc, and that stll doesnt explain nobody getting cancer (.er..bar ben), or Jacob, or…well anyway, this is why have problems with the time travel stuff..though dubtless it is going to crop up, because we already know tha desmond changed something, although..we arent sure about if it was a flashback of him flashing back or etc etc.”
Ah but you answered your own question, Desmond has always been looping. We have been aluded to the fact that Desmond has looped before the hatch, what is to say there have not been more?
Yes, time travel is nothing but convoluted. Like the back to the future movies, one loop begats another, then yet another, and so on….
As for those who shout down purgatory….Yes I know the producers have said this but they also said Anna Lucia was too important to the show to kill off then the next night she was toast. Do not even go there on what the producers have said…… They will lie, cheat and make up stuff just to throw you off.
The island cures just as death cures everything, It ceases to exist.
Comment by thirdflr — April 26, 2007 @ 11:17 am
He must have chewed an alca-seltzer upon his ear drums blowing out for effect. What I don’t understand is why Sayid of all people never checked the guy’s pulse, they just left him there, Idiots!!!!!
Comment by supa — April 26, 2007 @ 11:19 am
Jimyy, I agree with your point on the healing sculpture, but I think they would explain it differently than a sculpture with healing powers. For arguments sake let’s say the rumor on the monument is true. I believe it would have been built on the most powerfully healing spot on the island (the monument itself would not contain healing powers)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 11:28 am
thirdflr… i like 90% of ur theorys… but this
” (BTW I am not a subscriber to the island is a living breathing existance with a conscience….that is just too weird….to apply a spiritual form onto a phyiscal one. While this makes sense to those who watch alot of movies, it doesn’t in real life)”
Steve King pulls sh*t like that all the time. We just accept it. I think they said they wanted the island to be a character in itself… what a better way to do that then give it a conscience. Hell, Locke talks to the damn thing.
But i still respect ur theory, its very very interesting, and i like where ur going with it.
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:30 am
Mikhail did say, “I’ve already died once this week.” Perhaps he really was dead…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 11:30 am
Caps… Well now that u reworded it, i like it better. I’ve seen the screen shot of the statue… any pics where u can get a better look at it? cant really make it out, its very blurry.
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:32 am
Caps.. cmon, don’t tell me u feel for the old alca-seltzer fake death trick!!?! lmaoo ; ) didnt u seen Locke covering his mouth while he made those buzzing sounds of the pylon?! lmaooo
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:34 am
“um…italian and portugese are somewhat similar, whoever the person is above who said they are not AT ALL similar. don’t be so dramatic. spoken, they sound quite different, but written, you can pick out a lot of similar words.”
mariootsa, agreed…
They, along with French and Spanish, are considered “Romance languages” and are rooted in Latin.
Comment by Todd Anthony — April 26, 2007 @ 11:35 am
I’m really getting sick of all this alternative timeline theories. I think it’s a waste of time. You’re overexamining everything. But that’s only my opinion, I could be wrong
Comment by Supa — April 26, 2007 @ 11:38 am
If you subscribe to the most widely regarded idea of what a spirit is (pure energy), then there is no reason not to think any ecosystem is quite alive. This island just so happens to have more powerful energies at work than any other place. I’m sure there is a great explanation as to why that we’ll be hearing about two seasons from now. Some theories that have been thrown out there by the LOST community include Eden, haunted island (by a powerful psychic, once human entity), hell (or a place to keep the gates of hell closed), and the latest trying to destroy (or perhaps harness) god…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 11:39 am
It seemed to me that Ben was surprised that the plane crashed on their island. It’s not like they were expecting flight 815 to appear.
But surely it would take advance planning to have wreckage and bodies ready to plant in the ocean to cover the disappearance of flight 815 - which would hint at the crash not being an accident or as a result of Desmond failing to push the numbers that one time.
So if the crash of flight 815 was planned, why didn’t Ben know?
Comment by Control X — April 26, 2007 @ 11:40 am
Lol, yeah Jimyy, but my favorite part is the hidden ketchup packets in Mikhail’s ears…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Well said Caps… i for one, like the idea that the Island has a conscience. It opens up the doors for alot of theories.
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:43 am
Supa,
It’s the other way around. It’s the people who are REJECTING the alternative timeline theories who are over-examining.
Comment by Jem — April 26, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Jem… Honestly it can go both ways… for one if the timeline, time traveling,course changing,stopping people from dying.. Next they’ll be bringing people back from the dead by changing something or altering events differently… if they really do that, then this show would never end, it would have endless possibilities. if they want to end this by season 4-5 then i just dont see how far they can go with that… but then again i really dun0o wtf im talking about half the time. ask Caps or thirdflr. lol
Comment by Jimyy — April 26, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
Ok here me out on this theory…some of the Others are from the future…Hanso found the Island first but there was another “future” group (Others) that were already using the Island to save the end of the world. The Others and Hanso both co-existed until the Others knew that Hanso was interferring to much with their own experiments (the purge). Now hear me out on this, when the hatch exploded that caused Desmond to be able to tap into however some of the others travel through time, when they travel through time they can’t change anything just watch. Thats how they know so much about the Losties. The Island is a time portal thus why it has “magical” powers, thats just a positive effect of all the time travel being done. Anyways back to Desmond, thats why the mysterious women noticed something was wrong when he didn’t buy the ring. He had tapped into something he wasn’t supposed to and she knew there was no changing that. Anyways what I am getting at is because Desmond changed time with Charlies death now it is causing shifts in the real world. Like with the Parachute women, Mikail might have known she would accidently land but when Desmond intentionaly changed time this also changed what Mikail expected to be there. This also caused the Parachuter to get injured on the way down. Remember the man with the red shoes? Think about it, the monk told Desmond that his destiney was waiting outside and basically set up Penny and Desmond, he also had a picture of him with the women. Just another guy nudging Desmond into a path that they want him to be on. I think Mikhail and Mrs. Klough both have the ability for time travel. Mikhail was just way to coy at the scene with Desmond. Oh and here is something else that might support this. If they are trying to change time that could be why 815 crashed, and Ben got cancer. Think about it Desmond has always kind of been a loose cannon blowing up the hatch and all…or maybe they all already know this! Ha how is that for a crackpot theory!
Comment by Burger — April 26, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
Jem, your name rocks.
Just like your band rocked in the ’80s on saturday mornings.
But I’m pretty sure I’m not over or under examining anything.
Comment by Supa — April 26, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
Jimyy,
Don’t get me wrong, I have my reservations about time travel/parallel universes as story ideas too, (see my earlier posts on the matter).
My point is simply that the ‘game-changer’ has to be just that: it has to change the very nature of the show. To stick with the ‘game’ analogy, it is not going to be comparable to a ‘move’ within (say) a game of chess, no matter how audacious, risky or unexpected, but instead is going to represent a change to the rules of the game itself. (Well, to be precise, it’s not going to change the rules in itself; rather it will make us realise that the rules are not what we thought they were.) Apart from the alternative timeline idea, I haven’t seen a single theory from anyone, on any thread, that would meet that condition. All the other theories that people are bandying about are analogous to moves in a game whose basic conventions remain the same.
Comment by Jem — April 26, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
Supa,
Let me clarify: I didn’t mean that you personally were over-examining anything. I just meant that anyone who rules out the alternative universe theory has to work bloody hard to think of an explanation that makes sense.
The debate seems to me to be back-to-front. As I see it, some people are saying, ‘It’s an alternative universe!’ and other people are saying, ‘No way, it’s got to be something simpler than that!’ But as far as I’m concerned the parallel universe idea IS the simple explanation, and all the others are convoluted and (frankly) a bit boring.
Comment by Jem — April 26, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
Wouldn’t Locke knowing the secrets of the Island and going completly against Ben be a “game changer”?
Comment by Burger — April 26, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
Burger,
That would depend on what those secrets turned out to be, I suppose. Let me say though that I hope so! Although I seem to be defending the alternative universe stuff, in many ways I would prefer it your way.
As for Locke turning against Ben, I would say that one character reacting against another is still analogous to a ‘move’ in a game rather than an alteration to the very conventions by which that game is played.
Comment by Jem — April 26, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
Thirdflr:
mmm, well..lol this the the problem y’see…if it is a jump begetting more jumps ever and always..then….well im not saying that couldnt be it but i would completely lose my enthusiasm for what has up until now been a very interesting show..except for series one which i frankly didnt much care for lol.
anyway…yeah…please god let it not be too much of this timeline buisness.
anyway…so…how would your desmond/sam-beckett-from-quantum-leap model of lost explain the no cancer healning-ness? srry thats not an attack on the model, im just curious about how the island’s “powers” which arent simply related to increased speed of recovery/cell division fits into the equation? also, Locke’s dad, and the notion of “the magic box* TM” ?
(* product may or may not contain real boxes)
…same goes for smokey or sites of special power or…other things.
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
One thing that is being overlooked:
When Sun goes to talk to her father, she actually gets up the nerve to confront him!
“…my whole life, I’ve pretended not to know what you do. I’ve allowed you to keep you control over me. I’ve pretended that everything is alright. I will continue pretending.”
Could she be referring to his Paik Industries ties with DARMA and Hanso?? If Sun knows this information, would she have recognized their situation on the island as a connection to DARMA and, ultimately, to her father??
Comment by Lauren — April 26, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
Something else has been overlooked:
In “Catch-22,” when they first see Naomi (the parachute girl), the screen blinks and shifts just a little bit. It’s very subtle, and I thought it might’ve been my TV–but I noticed the SAME THING at the end of “D.O.C.” when Hurley is trying to talk to Naomi. The screen blinks and shifts. This could just be part of the cinematography, but I also think it’s a clue to what happened. Perhaps time, or even reality itself, has shifted somehow because of this girl’s appearance on the island. And, of course, it’s linked to Desmond and the fact that he keeps saving Charlie.
Did anybody else SEE what I saw? . . .
Comment by Joe — April 26, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Lauren,
No way
Comment by Supa — April 26, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
Lauren, I am pretty confident Sun was just reffering to the fact that her father is a gangster and does questionable things.
Comment by Akbar Fazil — April 26, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
MW - as I said death cures everything
Comment by thirdflr — April 26, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
Jem I understand what your saying…but I strongly think Locke is going to end up strongly opposing Ben. Not to say that this has anything to do with the “game changer” but in the first season Locke explained to Walt about Backgammon one white piece one dark piece. I think now we see who is good and who is bad and Locke is going to be the good force opposing Ben. Also look at the rules of Backgammon….
“It is played by two people with 15 checkers each on a board consisting of 24 spaces or points. The checkers are moved according to rolls of the dice. Each player tries to bring his own checkers home and bear them off before his opponent does, hitting and blocking the enemy checkers along the way. ”
Alot like the Losties vs. Others…but I digress as this is getting horribly off subject.
Comment by Burger — April 26, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
Ok guys,I’m italian, the parachute girl says to Mikhail “Sei uno stronzo”..well stronzo=shit,and so we know thei’re not friends.
Comment by AbbeyRoad — April 26, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
AbbeyRoad, are we to assume that “sei uno” means “my pants” in Italian?
Thirdflr, I like the death cures everything angle. Explain more if you will…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
By the way, top 3 Beatle albums…
3. Sgt. Pepper
2. Revolver
1. Abbey Road
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Great episode but I guess we have to accept that 1.) The significant amount of blood that sprayed from Mikhail’s ears caused no physical or mental damage to him and 2.) a focused, mission-ready pilot who has not only survived a punctured lung after somehow parachuting out of a helicopter with the largest gas tank in the world, but also the medical procedure to remove the stick, was able to remember a 3 month old plane crash, by flight number, and the tragic results. Yeah, I guess that’s reasonable.
Comment by Higdon — April 26, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
Higdon, I’m wondering if Mikhail’s statement, “I’ve already died once this week,” was true. You’re right about the helicopter with the largest gas tank in the world, but I think that will be explained with a ship or a closer landing strip of some sort. However, I don’t think remembering the flight # of a tragic airplane crash that happened 3 months ago is far fetched…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 26, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Yeah planes crash every day. It might be hard to remember the flight number unless something weird/gruesome happened but then again it might not. I remember that TWA flight 800 crashed and that was about 15 years ago but I don’t remember any of the specifics. If all the bodies were burned beyond the point of recognition or they recovered zero bodies that might be memorable but probably only in the country were most of the deceased are from…
According to oceanic-air.com: “Due to financial difficulties in the wake of the Flight 815 tragedy, we are no longer able to sustain service.”
If an airline went bankrupt because of a crash (I’m not sure why that would happen though) that would be pretty newsworthy and people would remember…
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — April 26, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
sorry thirdflr, i ant buying that lol; ben looked too damn surprised to find that he had cancer, in clear breach of his earlier statement to juliet that people dont get cancer on the island: note that he didnt say people are cured of cancer, he just said that “people dont get cancer”…
….wagh, i hate time travel.
Comment by mw — April 26, 2007 @ 3:44 pm
desmonds brutha-
smokey can go high, but that doesn’t effect his relationship with the ground. i can stand on my toes to get a few extra inches. doesn’t mean i can fly. anyway, tptb said in a podcast something along the lines of smokeys position is related to a point on the ground.
Comment by goldenmalicious — April 26, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Now it makes perfect sense why Michael was forced to bring Sawyer and Kate along with Jack and Hurley. In the recent Juliet episode, Ben says something about the possiblity of more mothers on the plane: for Juliet to continue her research on. Kate is put in a skimpy dress, Sawyer and Kate are put to hard labor, and they’re both in cages near each other, from which Kate can easily escape. Also, Kate fears that they will kill Sawyer. In other words, they set it up for Kate & Sawyer to need a comfort session, so to speak: they set them up to “mate.” Being that the sperm count is nearly 5 times normal, the chances of Kate getting pregnant were very high. It didn’t quite make sense to me before why they wanted Kate and Sawyer, but now it seems quite clear: Ben set up Kate to be a human guinea pig for the pregnancy issue Juliet has been working on for the last 3 years.
Comment by Paralithodes — April 26, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
when Locke says “him” he’s obviously talking about his father… who Ben is still holding hostage.
Comment by tpmmy — April 26, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
Maybe Ben was born on the island, but not concieved on the island. Just like Claire’s baby Aaron and Rousseau’s baby Alex.
Comment by Alaine — April 26, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
And what about all the different versions of the picture? I think I saw that posted sometime last week on this site. At some points when the picture appears, Desmond and Penny’s heads are in different places, the background is different, Desmond’s shirt changes, and (in one) the woman in the pic doesn’t even look like Penny. I’m not sure what’s going on with this show, but if the whole “time loop” thing is for real, I think these different instances of the same picture might be the biggest clue the writers are giving us.
Comment by Amoebasaur — April 26, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
how come no one is mentioning that the woman from the jewelry shop was in the photo on the monks desk.
OMG what does this all mean???
Comment by aw — April 26, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
She said to Patchy : “I’m not alone.” Its Portuguese. So is the book she has
Comment by missy — April 26, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
That is so last week.
Comment by docarzt — April 27, 2007 @ 5:08 am
Wasn’t kate awake during the crash? DOes she know more than she is letting on? Hope they don’t kill her off in a few weeks time?
Comment by jim robinson is jacob — April 27, 2007 @ 6:30 am
There has always been a gap between the plane breaking apart and everyone frantic on the beach. It makes you wonder what the hell was going on during that gap. All we ever saw was the plane breaking apart, Jack waking up (in the jungle by himself?), and the maddening beach scene. There’s probably not too much to look into here, but it would explain the scenario of the 815ers were never on the plane or the beach 815ers were duplicates (which I don’t subscribe to).
I think Mittelos/the others are powerful enough to have had a fake 815 directed to the island. It was not supposed to crash, but the island got to it first (which is why Smokey snatched the pilot immediately, as he was in on it). If they had done this, then it stands to reason that they would have crashed the real 815 (which would’ve been empty or full of already dead carcasses) in the “real world.” That’s my story, and I’m stickin to it (for now)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 27, 2007 @ 7:00 am
Actually now that I think about it, as powerful and wealthy as I believe DHARMA to be it might make more sense that they planned this. It would explain why Mikhail had tape of the plane taking off. Who has tape of a plane taking off?!?
Comment by cap10tripps — April 27, 2007 @ 7:07 am
Do you think Mikhail is a Gorbichev’s son?
Comment by Supa — April 27, 2007 @ 7:47 am
I’ve seen a few times since the episode that Mikhail had some kind of video of 815 taking off? How do we know it was actually that exact flight? I’m pretty sure when there is a plane crash in the real world that before they find the wreckage that they simply show planes from that particular company taking off and not necessarily the actual plane that crashed. I think Mikhail is a big character and has some answers but I don’t think he had footage of 815 taking off.
Comment by bdub — April 27, 2007 @ 8:01 am
Caps, MW, Prez…the Vacuum/Tornado theory-
Like a big black hole, time/space everything gets sucked into the spiraling tornado of time/space.
The closer you get to the vortex the faster it spins down(or up whichever way you want to look at it). Once at the cusp (the island) of the tornado (visualize the top of the tornado)time stops.
In simple terms think of someone vacuuming the floor. An ant walking along (living his life in search of food water, companionship…) on the carpet but once sucked into the end of the vacuum sweep, the Ant’s life is over as he knows it, but yet the journey of death still has course, it has many more curves, twists, turns and the velocity triples with each inch.
Whatever that has ailed his life to this point is immaterial, it is cured. His vital organs of his minut being caves in (cancer)(failure)(disease)(distort), in nanaseconds (of human time) death cures everything. He ceases to exist. Yet in grand scheme of the journey of death, finality does not come until it hits the bag of the vacuum.
The island is the cusp of death, it spins faster and faster and faster sucking down into the spiral of another life(remember the tornado axcelerates speed the closer to the bottom of its vortex.) But at the top of the tornado it sucks everything above it down into it. All 360 degrees of one plane of dimension (all the various journeys, timelines..)but yet it all drills down to a specific pinpoint of 1 final destination that creates another path/journey of its own on another plane of yet another dimension Some live, some die, some get flung into netherspheres.
I theorize Desmond is just looping meeting each journey as it gets there realizing they are all going to the same place.
Some may want to call this process purgatory I theorize
we as viewers are just witnessing the entire tornado in slow motion.
BTW, for the record, I don’t LIKe the multiple time line course either but if this show is time looping then I think this theory fits.
Comment by thirdflr — April 27, 2007 @ 8:08 am
WHAT ABOUT THE SCREEN BLINKING?!
Seriously. Watch the last two episodes again. During each episode, the screen blinks and shifts for just a second. It only happens when Naomi (the parachute girl) is part of the scene.
DID ANYBODY ELSE SEE THAT?
Comment by Joe — April 27, 2007 @ 8:23 am
Thirdflr, I love it. Good stuff. Very original. Cheers.
Bdub, Ben and Mikhail were showing Juliet footage of 815 taking off the same day it crashed. That is way too convenient (unless as you say it was a completely different plane)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 27, 2007 @ 8:56 am
Regarding the impending death of pregnant women, is this not something that a simple medical procedure, an abortion, could negate?
A contentious issue to be sure, but when the life of the mother is at risk and and the pregnancy is early stages worth considering.
Comment by Edgy — April 27, 2007 @ 9:02 am
Joe - I don’t see any screen shift/blink/disturbance. I just checked both episodes again in slow-motion, and nothing.
Then again, I DO wear glasses, so it could just be me.
Comment by Louise — April 27, 2007 @ 9:08 am
Doc, what’s the record for posts on one subject? This is the most I remember seeing…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 27, 2007 @ 9:10 am
Cap, I understand where you are coming from but given the things that Ben has lied about I just don’t see how it could have been the same plane. If it actually was, then I think that gives the theory that they were behind the crash some legs. Personally, I’m skeptical as to whether the “live” brodcasts were even real. It would not shock me at all if the news broadcasts were made by Hanso, Widmore, Dharma, etc. I think a lot of the things we’ve talked about the most on this site will have some light shed in the next 2 weeks.
Comment by bdub — April 27, 2007 @ 9:19 am
All good points bdub. There really are multiple plausible possibilities. I love the genesis of the possibilities within LOST as they come to fruition. It’s a big reason this is the greatest show in television history (imo)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 27, 2007 @ 9:32 am
By the way Doc didn’t you have spoilers alittle while ago that stated there was aerial shots being filmed? What happened to that? We didn’t get to see the parachutist decend.
Comment by Muscle_Bob_Buff_Pants — April 27, 2007 @ 10:08 am
Gracias, vs. no vengo sola.
Comment by jbar — April 27, 2007 @ 10:18 am
I think the video was the standard stock footage method used by most newscasts - esp when the plane at that point is probably still missing and assumed crashed.
Comment by SeenMyLuggage? — April 27, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
i think the others have an emergency plan if comm goes down to the outside world, and Naomi is part of that plan,(she had the sat phone) and mikhail knows this and he heard the chopper and saw the beacon thats why he was looking for her.
Comment by themachine — April 27, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Maybe i misheard but did Juliet not say that with the pregnant woman that the body treats the foetus like a foreign invader and tries to get rid of it. Like how the island gets rid of the rose’s cancer. I dont know why that means the women die but it would explain why the babies do. Maybe the women die from the trauma of this happening?
Just thought i would chip in on the discussion.
Comment by StevieC — April 27, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
Rumour spreading around the net this week is the potential revivement of people who died on the island. Boone, Shannon, Nikki, Paulo…
They say it’s because Mikail is ‘alive’.
It sounds false to me, but it was a very interesting thought. I thought I should let you people know.
Comment by anonymous — April 27, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Hi Guys, I’m a UK fan so dont get to see this until Sunday night, but by the looks of it this should be a really good episode. I think Naomi may be lying about the 815 having no survivors but do think its quite wierd that she can speak 4 languages and 3 of them are of people on the island, portugese (Hurley) korean/chinese/mandarin (Jin & Sun)
Comment by paulukfan — April 27, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
she didn’t say anything in italian, she said “jo no estoy sola” that means “i’m not alone” but in spanish!
Comment by Topper9 — April 28, 2007 @ 3:07 am
“themachine” had a good point. But I am going to take it a little further and say that Naomi was the Helicopter pilot and Penny was with her. We know that Penny had people monitoring in the Artic looking for something. What if they were also waiting for a distress message from the Island..something like someone typing in 77 into a computer? Anyways when Locke entered 77 it probably sent out a distress message to The Hanso Foundation. Penny intercepted this and located it’s orgin. The only problem? Because of electromagnetic fields the Helicopter crashed. Because Desmond changed time it altered who landed where. I still think Naomi only got injured because of Charlie being saved. OH AND…
I AM BEING OBNOXIOUS BUT EVERYONE SEEMS TO NOT REMEMBER THE LOST EXPERIANCE. IT TOOK PLACE AFTER THE CRASH AND DURING THAT THEY ALWAYS SAID EVERYONE 815 WAS PRESUMED DEAD. THIS MEANS NAOMI PROBABLY JUST ASSUMED THEY WERE DEAD.
Comment by Burger — April 28, 2007 @ 5:39 am
Oh and on that note….Desmond was always supposed to push the button. When he failed to push the button something had to even out fate. Thus causing the plane to crash. Or so I theorize anyways. But we can all agree Naomi was the pilot? She did have all the gear on.
Comment by Burger — April 28, 2007 @ 5:41 am
Oh and Damnit wasn’t there a picture of Naomi in Ben’s house??
Comment by Burger — April 28, 2007 @ 5:42 am
It’s not italian that Naomi speaks, it’s brazilian portuguese. I’m brazilian and I’m a 100% sure she said “Eu n
Comment by Gui BAldo — April 28, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
There is no supposed to be. Everyone’s going on about who this person “really is” and who that person actually is, and what the smoke thing is. …it’s a TV show.. these people do not exist. And I’m CONVINCED the writers are making it up as they go along. They may not even know what they’re doing with the smoke thing yet. Or whether Juliet is a good guy or not, or whether Jack is collaborating… or more about each character’s past. and since the writers don’t know, neither do the actors, which is why they all look confused as hell, cause they can’t commit to an emotion with any kind of conviction which may be contradicted when they’re handed their sides for next weeks episode. The on plothole I see though that no one has mentioned is Alex… isn’t she Russo and Ben’s baby? i.e. conceived and born ON the island? Did everyone forget about her?
Comment by The writers are lost — April 28, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
The writers are lost said, “I’m CONVINCED the writers are making it up as they go along.”
What convinces you of this? You say they ‘may not know’ about this or that, but what CONVINCES you that they do not know?
Comment by Lance — April 28, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
oh my goodness…Lance… of all the things I wrote, that’s what you’re going to pick on? Semantics? Answer the bit about Alex. How is Russo alive is all women who get pregnant on the island die, and Ben impregnated her. Did they go to an alternative island where there’s a Motel 6? Or, more likely, has this slipped the writers mind and they’ll have to create another plot twist to fix this hole once someone remembers, just as no one in this thread did?
Why am I convinced? because it’s a TV series, not a movie with a beginning, middle and end, it’s an ongoing tv series. It’s how the industry works. It’s about money… and keeping people’s interest in the show, if they don’t watch, the show goes away, whether or not anyone ever finds the people on the island. They’re writing it one week at a time. And while they may have a certain storyline for the season, if the masses are really hating a character (or more devastating to a studio’s tally, if a character is just uninteresting to the public, they are forced to phase them out), or if an actor (in real life) gets pregnant or injured in some way, or a better contract offer from a different studio, they have to change their scripting, this is how TV shows work. Lost just got picked up for another season, this means that where otherwise they may have had to end it - and be found or not, now they have to find a way to not allow them to be rescued for another year. Oh, I know.. ‘let’s say that another flight 815 was found with no survivors.’ It’s ridiculous, but fine.. it’s a ridiculous show and we love it despite and FOR its ridiculousness… . The only thing that bothers me is of this last episode is the Alex factor. Have any ideas on that one?
Comment by The writers are lost — April 28, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
Uhh, Ben isn’t Alex’s real father. Rousseau was pregnant when she reached the island, like Claire. This was stated ages ago. Ben’s a liar (nothing new, I know).
Comment by Louise — April 29, 2007 @ 5:46 am
I’m going to return to D.O.C. for a moment. Last night I rewatched “What Kate Did” from S2. It opens on the morning after Jin, Sawyer and Michael first returned to the fuselage survivors beach with the tailies. It was the morning after Ana had killed Shannon. (This would be the morning of Day 49.)It was also the morning after the first night that Jin and Sun had been reunited. The episode actually opens with Jin emerging from his and Sun’s tent. He pulls back the flap and steps out with an SE grin on his face, looks to his right and sees Hurley who gives him a thumbs up. The obvious implicaiton is that Jin and Sun had done the deed. We now know from “D.O.C.” that this was shortly after the moment of conception. Returning to “What Kate Did”, Jin retuns Hurley’s thumbs up with an even bigger SE grin…and then Sun emerges behind him with a satisfied smile on her face. Instead of looking to her right to see Hurley, she looks to her left and the smile immediately disipates into a look of horror as she sees Sayid digging Shannon’s grave. From the joy of making love with Jin (which we now know led to conception) to seeing a grave being dug. To “the writers are lost”: This is called foreshadowing. If you’d rewatch the first two seasons, you’d see multiple examples of foreshadowing of events from upcoming seasons in every episode. The ONLY thing I’m sure of with this show is that the writers know very well where they are going…from beginning to middle to end. And if you think Ben and Rousseau parented Alex, please change your name to “the viewer that’s lost.”
Comment by gusteaux — April 29, 2007 @ 8:16 am
Of course there’s foreshadowing… I didn’t deny them of this. It’s what makes it a decent show and fun to watch. (and don’t read me wrong, I enjoy it, I just looked at this site cause I did a google search to find out what parachute girl said in whatever language she was speaking and ended up reading so much about ‘what’s really going on’ - fact is, if the show gets cancelled, they’ll find some way to wrap it up, if it doesn’t it’ll continue - Ross and Rachel didn’t actually move to paris. The show ended, it’s a tv show). And WITH all the planning and foreshadowing and story scripting, it doesn’t mean that the writers can’t throw in the idea that.. I don’t know.. something completely random, that Sawyer and Kate are actually siblings separated at birth. They can throw that in somewhere way down the line if they want, where there was no foreshadowing to that effect and no way for the viewers to guess it. This is how tv shows work. I’m not lost because I missed one detail about Alex. Forgive me, I stand corrected. But it’s just a tv show. And it’s possible that they have not yet decided what the black cloud is. Or what will come of it. It could be. You guys clearly, from this site, go for many more out-there-theories… why is this one so hard to grasp? But in the first season, they covered much more ground each episode, they would tell a lot, and this sucked many people into the show - now it’s become a show that we’re oddly addicted to but strings you along for 40 minutes for the last minute and a half when they’ll throw in a cliff hanger that’ll get you to tune in next week. They’re brilliant, but the story line has gotten VERY weak and drawn out. Watch a few of the earlier episodes, you’ll see how the pacing has changed. And how remarkably unbelievable it is that now one has stopped Juliette or Rousseau or Jack or anyone and sat them down and said, ‘no more riddles, no more criptic answers.. what the hell is going on, spit it out.’ and y’know why they haven’ done this? because they’re not stranded on an island, they’re characters on a tv show that need to keep us watching from week to week, year to year, instead of just spilling the beans in one actually-informative episode.
Comment by The writers are lost — April 29, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Yes indeed, the parachutist said “Eu nao estou s
Comment by Alejandro — April 30, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
Waaaaahh.. stop crying and get a clue.. this site is for theorizing and having a good time.. go and google something else, maybe than you can find yourself a clue…
Comment by thewambulance — April 30, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
http://www.tv.com/lost/deus-ex-machina/episode/397844/trivia.html
“For a limited time a recap video clip could be seen on the ABC website. Within the clip, the audio had been changed for the scene of Boone contacting outsiders with the Beechcraft radio. The Audio had gone from, “…there were no survivors of…” to, “No, we’re the survivors of Oceanic flight 815!” “
Comment by Lost in Lost — May 1, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
Just some thoughts:
I haven’t seen anyone mention the possibility that before Desmond was given the book when he meat with Penny in the parking lot, Penny could have kept a copy of it for herself. Yes there was one picture but why couldn’t she have scanned it for herself as well.
Sorry I don’t buy Juliette looking at the ultrasound and telling it down to the day. Even when I had my daughter although I knew the date of conception myself, the OB still based her due date on a two week window. The look on Juliette’s face when Sun said she had slept with another man was telling too. I side more with the theory it isn’t Jin’s baby and was conceived off the island and Juliette is lying to Ben. Pretty rotten since now Sun thinks she is a goner while on the Island. Besides who says they can’t have children on the island now that the hatch has blown? They are assuming the same circumstances still exist as before. They haven’t shown any other mothers dying while preggers.
Another observation, everyone healing have been to the interior of the Island not on the beach. There might be something in the water too from the spring they found in the cave. Rose went to the hatch and spent time there which is in the interior of the island. Ben may have left the island same as Richard, the guy who was filming Juliette’s sister, and returned allowing him to manifest the tumor.
Dying and coming back to life is not unusual. Happens to people everyday being called clinically dead and then being revived. But I do believe it has more to do with will to live than anything else. Boone gave up and told Jack not to try to save him. Besides being on the beach, so did the Marshall telling Sawyer to shoot him. Eko would rather join his brother in death without compromise, he had no reason to be there after hatch was blown. Shannon’s death I believe had more to do teaching Anna a lesson.
I don’t believe Locke knew Patchy would come back to life. As for seeing him breathing excuse me he is an actor and alive and breathing in the first place. But no one took his pulse after the sonic fence got him.
I just go done watching Denzel Washington’s new movie on DVD DEJA VU. It has a time worm hole plot. Interesting and worth a watch for those interested. Like the movie Triangle I can relate to the time travel thing but only with a man-made device causing it. The idea of the island being alive isn’t far fetched to me but being that DHARMA said there was an incident, I tend to believe the man-made problem gone nuts more.
Now a little venting…
Alright already with the Portuguese business, how many times does it have to be posted about what she actually said and in what language.
To The writers are lost - The writers of the show I am sure read the conjecture of the fans and probably get ideas as well. But who really cares about the foreshadowing and blah blah technical stuff that goes along with writing a show. It’s a fantastic show, they do a great job. Unlike most of those watching, I don’t get cable tv and I live on cliff in TV black hole that only gets one channel on regular tv and it’s not ABC. I have a neighbor who tapes the show for me weekly so I can get my fix, thankfully. I could really give a crap about those who either think the show has slowed down or it doesn’t meet their expectations! That includes your opinion. I agree with the poster who suggested you change your handle! Get a clue!
Lastly those of you who post your dissatisfaction with the show, please stop watching it and stop posting to this wonderful board!!! Really tired of reading you and not being able to exercise my right to delete you nay sayers. Rather have more room for the fellow enthusiasts who I do enjoy reading!!!
THANK YOU DOC FOR ALL YOU DO ON THIS SITE!!!!
Comment by Sabina — May 2, 2007 @ 1:12 am
How did Ben and Ben’s daughter get born on the island? Isn’t the parachutist the girl from the picture on Ben’s desk?
Comment by jtm — May 2, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
the writers are lost never said he didnt like the show…just that he thought that the writer’s were making it up as they went. I don’t see why you all attack him for it.
Comment by anon — May 5, 2007 @ 11:39 am
anon - thank you. really! thank you! You must be the only one who read what I said. That’s right. Not only did I never say I don’t like the show, on the contrary, I do, I think it’s very clever, I said that. And more, I don’t think the writers are entirely making it up as they go along, as stated, they have a schematic for how the season will play out. But will certainly kill off a character or turn attention towards or away from them based on audience reaction, that’s just how TV series work. Anyone who does not know this may be a part of the dharma initiative and not living on planet earth as we know it. (okay, joke, it was just a joke, don’t jump down my throat for that one).
Sabina - you live on a mountain top, I live in the middle east (Israel). We don’t get the show here either. I download it from the internet. See? It’s not just simply showing up on my tv screen, I’m actively downloading it to watch it.. why? because I like it.
I just wonder how much more would get done by today’s generation if we watched TV when we felt like it, enjoyed it for what it is.. a TV show, and then let it go till the following week and we spent less time venting and blogging and posting messages all week long and more time putting all of this energy into constructive life. Imagine the world we’d live in. I for one, illustrate children’s books, I’m going to get back to that now. Over and out.
Comment by The writers are lost — May 5, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
last thing… if y’wanna talk about something REALLY unlikely though… the notion that on a flight from Sidney to LA there was not one Jew… that’s kinda funny. You’ve got a representative from most every other race/religion… they were even building a church at one point. Yes, they’re missing Indian as well… but a flight to LA? really? no Jews? I guess Mr. Abrams felt his name being in the title sequence of every episode was enough. That or… as I said… TV shows give the audience what they want to see, and if there’s not enough interest to throw in the jewish factor, they leave it out. Because at the end of the day, while in reality, there would be a couple of jews on this flight, in TV land, there aren’t. And I for one am okay with that.
Comment by the writers are lost — May 5, 2007 @ 10:23 pm