Theory - Guys WTF Are We - The Violet Solution
The sky turning violet is a huge clue, and here is why.
There are models of the universe that say things start from the big bang, dissipate, cool down, and eventually cease to exist. All forces weaken until sub atomic particles no longer ’stick’ to each other and all we’re left with is a big cloud of cold constituent particles with no reason to exist. Bleak, I know.
There is another theory called "The Big Crunch" though, that works a little differently, and I am laying down the gauntlet right now and claiming it made its way into the LOST writers room at some point last year and is messing with our minds at this very moment (assuming you read the spoiler below.) Click on through and I’ll explain.
The failsafe was not supposed to be turned. Why? Because it ended the universe, everywhere but on the island. The evidence? The violet sky.
The Big Crunch theory says that there is enough mass in the Universe that eventually all this scattered ’stuff’ will begin to accrete until a massive enough conglomerate forms with enough gravity to essentially collapse the universe back down into the tiny point it was prior to the big bang; at that point, it starts all over again. If you were standing on a planet, looking at the sky, you would know this was happening becomes you would notice a ‘violet shift’. Just like we use red shift and blue shift to determine our position in the universe with relation to objects around us, ‘violet shift’ has a special meaning. It tells us that things are ‘contracting’.
So was the failsafe the end of the universe? Did a new universe construct itself outside of the islands privileged frame of reference? Would that universe follow the new law of LOST time mechanics called ‘Course Correction’?
sounds a bit too smart for the writers who thought that the love triangle was a really important story line to do, and those that told us that Paolo and Nikki would be iconic important characters.
Comment by Akbar Fazil — April 24, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Sounds like an interesting theory, but I doubt it’s going to be the game changer for the show. I’d expect a lot of people who don’t consider themselves sci-fi people leaving the show in droves if something like that were to be presented.
Comment by GodBlessTexas — April 24, 2007 @ 10:34 am
“Because it ended the universe, everywhere but on the island.”
How does this account for Naomi arriving on the island last week?
Comment by Horace Greeley — April 24, 2007 @ 10:35 am
Again, yeah, I love all the postulating and theorizing that Lost fans are capable of.
At the same time, I’m a little leery of assuming that - in the already-hyped final episode of the series - the big explanation we’ll get will actually require an understanding of quantum physics, cosmological theories and an interest in every major philosopher of the last 500 years.
I love that the show’s created a fan base of such intelligent free-thinkers. But I’m hoping I don’t have to use wikipedia to understand what happened.
Comment by Robin — April 24, 2007 @ 10:37 am
Well the contraction was a fast forward effect. So the universe collapsed, then was ‘recreated’ but this time from the timeline influences by our boy Desmond.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Right, Robin. In the end it is going to be a K.I.S.S solution (keep it simple stupid). On the other hand, Stephen Hawking is fond of saying something to the effect that the ‘perfect’ theory of the universe would be composed of the language of speech, not mathematics. Not saying that this is going to be how it goes, but it could end in a reality bending philosophy that is not so hard to grasp. Research “The Holographic Universe” for one possibility.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Doc, this is why I love thetailsection. It’s like I’m back at Penn State in a class that wasn’t available in the mid 90’s. That being said, I love the theory. However, I’d be more inclined to think that if what you say is true, there’d be a slower contraction. Like the universe is now contracting, and Des will have to figure out how to make it right…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 10:51 am
then how did Naomi end up on the island if it was the end of the universe?
Comment by Sam — April 24, 2007 @ 11:00 am
It was recreated and time was corrected by the mysterious “watchers”. Desmond’s time trip, however, messed things up again.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Although it’s a very interesting concept, what evidence from the show supports this? Besides the violet sky, which I certainly grant you.
In all honesty, I could see this as being some background for the theory I’m backing, that Desmond rearrange time. You could argue that one can’t ‘rearrange’ time, you can only deconstruct it and reconstruct it (slightly differently). So maybe we’re saying the same thing in different ways!
I just can’t imagine Lost trying to get this concept across. The amount of background that would be required to express this idea would not slip easily into the show. The stuff with Desmond re-writing time has already been laced in this season.
Comment by Nick — April 24, 2007 @ 11:34 am
Doc, I have to say it. In a desire to come up with interesting content for the site here, you’re definitely overthinking the show.
Whenever coming up with theories we should ask ourselves this: is this theory inaccessible to the general audience? If so, are the writers and producers stupid enough to take the show in a direction that is inaccessible to the general audience (meaning, then 10 or 12 million that watch every week and that DON’T look at websites and aren’t hardcore fans)?
The answer to the second question is no. The writers and producers aren’t morons. What’s going on on the island will not be hard to understand. If it is, the general audience will stop caring, and quickly.
What is going on at Lost Island has to be simple and straightforward. Wild internet theories about timelines and alternate universes are NOT SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD. The average viewer would not understand Lost and would not give a crap if this is what the show was about. There’s no way they work.
Then again, part of why Lost is so great is that it lets us challenge our brains by coming up with crazy theories like this.
Comment by Mook — April 24, 2007 @ 11:34 am
Doc, is there anything you can reference explaining “violet shift?”
Red shift and blue shift refer to the Doppler effect… objects moving away from us have their wavelengths lengthened, appearing more red, and shifting into microwaves at the extreme (this is the background radiation/”noise” measured in the universe… leftover photons from the Big Bang shifted to the extreme red end of the spectrum.) Conversely, objects moving towards us shift blue, as their wavelength is shortened. This is the same effect as the siren on an ambulance sounding higher-pitched as it approaches (the soundwaves pile up on each other, effectively shortening wavelength) and lower-pitched as it speeds away from us (effectively stretching the wavelengths.)
It has been several years since my study of physics, but I fail to recognize any “violet-shift.” A reference would help me understand. Thanks!
Comment by mj — April 24, 2007 @ 11:35 am
Just to add, everything being blue-shifted would indicate contraction. Not getting the “violet”…
Comment by mj — April 24, 2007 @ 11:37 am
google: “violet shift” universe contracting
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 11:40 am
Mook,
I 100% agree with you. My theory I have bandied about is only possible, in my mind, because I think the writers have taken steps to make it understandable by the general audience. The solution to the island’s mysteries will be a combination of KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) and 4-5 years of carefully leading the audience to the conclusion.
I feel like the photograph and “Flashes” have laid groundwork for the “Desmond changed the past” theory in a reasonable way. Thanks to Hurley making jokes, every Lost viewer realizes that time / timelines are changeable around Desmond. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect them to stretch that theory as time goes on to explain that Desmond changed the past when he jumped back in time.
And wouldn’t a Jack flashback in the finale that shows his past in the alternate / new timeline get the point across in an interesting and understandable way??
Yeah buddy.
Comment by Nick — April 24, 2007 @ 11:43 am
Wow! Didn’t think I would be reading about the doppler effect on here, but way cool thought….to a point.
They can’t destroy the world, time, etc. because the audience (not me) would revolt. I could see the purple shift (which in terms of doppler would mean everything was approaching the island REALLY fast) be more about a timeline shift.
Comment by Kevonski — April 24, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Yeah… I should put a disclaimer on any post like this. As I stated, I’m in the Nick column that when the show ends it is going to be easy to explain. However, when it is all said and done, all of the time mumbo jumbo will be analogous to ‘the force’ in Star Wars. We’re not going to need an answer for all that because it is going to come down to a metaphor for ‘destroying the death star’. OR it will come to a melt down of characters and a sacrifice in the face of overwhelming odds based on faith. OR, some other tried and true epic resolution.
At any rate, this doesn’t mean the writers can’t, and don’t, texture the story with enough lore to keep us busy while the real story plays out. If anything, that is the recipe for legends. Imagine Star Wars without the force, for instance. You can do the whole plot without it, but it lends a subtext to the universe that can never be explained within the story. Without that mysticism to ponder, the story is just a little flatter.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 11:55 am
docarzt,
Well said. No matter what the solution to it all is, it’ll be outlandish to some degree. They’ll spend years laying the groundwork to make it at all believeable, and it’ll still take a leap of faith. At this point, every crazy theory is still possible!
I personally take every theory and run it through my “would the Lost creators undergo the effort to get that across to the viewer?” test.
So, like, the violet shift thing. I would not at ALL be surprised if someone in the writer’s room knew about all this, and that’s the reason for the particular color used. But, I do doubt they’ll every say a word about it on the show.
Bless them for leaving us little easter eggs like that to dissect, though!
Comment by Nick — April 24, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
I’m not sold on the idea of the universe ending or contracting as a result of the failsafe being used, but I do think there’s a strong possibility that it was supposed to represent a Doppler shift. (This isn’t the first time Doppler has come up in this context) More likely than the universe ending, the blueshift at the end of season 2 (blueshifting sky-blue gets you to violet) was supposed to show the island and its environs “moving” through time / different realities. Desmond traveled back in time and changed some things while there; the “bubble” around the island has been moved to this new reality where the outside world is different, but nothing inside the bubble has changed. Fate is now trying to make things on the island the way they should be in the new reality, and for some reason Charlie is supposed to be dead.
I don’t think this is too complex for the audience to understand, but you’re right that simplicity is a constraint on the producers.
Comment by hexonxonx — April 24, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Yes. Yes, yes and yes.
Thank you, Doc & Nick!
You’ve summed up the paradox of Lost perfectly. They are telling a complicated story textured with hints of physics, philosophy, religion, mythology and psychology, and (I hope) they will eventually have to boil down the overarching theories and themes to a literary converging point. Eventually, all these theories will be proven right or wrong, and I have utmost faith in the writers and creators - not necessarily to know where they’re headed, but at least to know how to get there. (Very Stephen King. But also very Herman Melville, Victor Hugo and Charles Dickens…)
Ultimately, as with anything dealing with complex scientific theories and humanistic philosophies, the success of the show is still going to ride on where the writers decide to stand and how they choose to develop the characters. (I argue that this is why the Matrix series somewhat unfortunately implodes by the third film, but conversely why I might still watch a bad-idea sequel to Memento.)
I definitely fall into the camp watching for the stories and the characters. With the exception of the hit-or-miss consistency of this season, I’ve been impressed with the pacing and complexity of the show and characters (I admit, I’m a Juliet fan) and I’m moer than happy to let them explain things in their own time.
Comment by Robin — April 24, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
The only plausible way I could see this working is if the Failsafe “reset” the universe (except the Island) and everything played out exactly the same except Flight 815 never crashed on the island.
That way, Naomi saying “They found Flight 815, there were no survivors” would make sense. Naomi and everyone else are from two different time lines. Desmond, for whatever reason, has the ability to transcend both.
I know some people have mention Star Trek, and in the last episode of ‘Voyager,’ the Janeway from the future boarded Voyager and told them it took them 30 years to get home. She’s time-traveling to make sure they get home on that day instead of taking another 30 years. It’s possible there’s a similar storyline to that going on.
That would explain why Walt and Michael never return; sky turns purple and they’re gone and their timeline is altered so they were never on the island to begin with.
Comment by Chris — April 24, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
Doc, who is watching the watchmen? This wonderous line resonates through LOST more than we know…
So how about this. The “big crunch” had already begun and the universe was contracting. DHARMA (who is obsessed with the Valenzetti equation) built the swan to control the magnetic anomale (will someone please tell me how to spell anomale) and prevent eventual anihlation. By turning the failsafe Des took his finger off the dam. If he didn’t the universe would have been destroyed as Doc stated. Now not only is the universe contracting again, but it’s contracting faster. This is why Ben and the others (who I believe to be remnants of DHARMA) believe they are the good guys. We see hints of this with “only fools are enslaved by space and time” and the purge. The watchers as Doc calls them (Ms. Hawking & the monk Doc, who is watching the watchmen? This wonderous line resonates through LOST more than we know…
So how about this. The “big crunch” had already begun and the universe was contracting. DHARMA (who is obsessed with the Valenzetti equation) built the swan to control the magnetic anomale (will someone please tell me how to spell anomale) and prevent eventual anihlation. By turning the failsafe Des took his finger off the dam. If he didn’t the universe would have been destroyed as Doc stated. Now not only is the universe contracting again, but it’s contracting faster. This is why Ben and the others (who I believe to be remnants of DHARMA) believe they are the good guys. We see hints of this with “only fools are enslaved by space and time” and the purge. The watchers as Doc calls them (Ms. Hawking & the monk
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 12:46 pm
By the way, the magnetic anomale within the swan (in this theory) would be the original point of the beginning of the universe (and the eventual point of the end)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
For some reason my whole post did not get posted. I’ll continue from the watchers.
The watchers are trying to steer Des towards course correction. We are left with the wondering who are the good guys. Do we lean towards fate and pre-destiny, or do we demand free will? My best guess is that in the end fate will take hold. Then the question will be who were the good guys. This will remain an ambiguous question for us to ponder…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Just enrolled at MIT so I can begin to understand the plot to Lost. Remember Doc, this is TV. The basest and most thoughtless of all the entertainment media. They call it the Boob Tube because it literally will give you man boobs. And it’s not from all that complex thinkin’.
Comment by Higdon — April 24, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
If the sky turned purple, this is very important since purple is the color of Concord Grape Jelly!! This could mean that the smoke monster read Hurley’s mind and created a universe out of grape jelly.
However, if the color purple actually represents the color of a tall cool bottle of sparkling Grapico soda, then this means that the smoke monster read Sawyer’s mind and created a Grapico universe.
Q.E.D.
Comment by Maurice Tift — April 24, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
Maurice.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
impossible! but interesting! It’s impossible because we wouldn’t have gotten a new ‘member’ last week (that english chick!) Interesting because other than the new arrival it SO would have been IT !!!
Comment by MC — April 24, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
doc, sorry if i sounded harsh on that last one. Like I said at the end, there, the fact that Lost allows us to theorize like this is a huge part of why the show is so great and so fascinating. Thanks for your thoughts and theories. I like the new interview you just posted.
Comment by Mook — April 24, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
DocArzt: think it would be useful for all if you would add this as a new Theory thread, perhaps called “WTF are we? (W = Where, What, When, and Who)”. I very much like your general concept, tho’ I doubt that the universe collapsed … perhaps the Island’s FailSafe technology caused a radical electromagnetic event resulting in at least color and time shifts, maybe other shifts too like location - RichPundit
Comment by RichPundit — April 24, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
I hate to always shoot something down when I post, but that is NOT what would happen if a Big Crunch were to occur.
In fact, the Big Crunch would collapse the universe down into a singularity and, it is believed, another Big Bang would take place. Theoretically, this cycle repeats itself forever.
Everything in the universe would be destroyed, and maybe, in about 13-14 billion years, life would arise again.
Not to mention, how the hell would the failsafe cause a Big Crunch that causes the universe to implode in upon itself?
Comment by Brian L. — April 24, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Higdon (and all of those who fear that LOST will be too complex), this show since day one has been about using television as a medium of enlightenment the way it has been thought that only books could. It is the single biggest reason LOST is so groundbreaking. You don’t have to be a genius to learn. As a matter of fact the further you are away from genius status, the more this show could teach you. For instance El Prez and I have spent many a day talking about magnetic anomales, black holes, and slower than earth moving (even non-existent) time. We started this discussion the moment Hawking’s book on black holes was revealed as an important easter egg. Now I can’t tell you all the quantum physics behind a black hole (although I bet a few of us ran out to buy the book), but I do know quite a bit more than I did about them. Just because the television set we sit in front of watching the latest mind blowing installment of “The Surreal Life Fame Games” doesn’t often do anything but numb our brains, does not mean that a show like LOST can’t come along to stimulate that same under used muscle. It’s like Doc said (paraphrasing), you don’t have to understand the mathematics of the universe to enjoy and comprehend this great show, but it does offer interesting subjects for us to discuss that we otherwise have left for the doctor’s of modern science. What a great analogy to “Star Wars” use of the force. People like me sat around their basements (often with a self rolled cigarette) discussing what the force was and how it could be applied to the great scheme. Most people probably enjoyed the story coupled with the special effects and never had one analytical discussion about the dual trilogy. LOST will play out the same way (TPTP=self proclaimed “Star Wars” geeks)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
Brian - tiny point = singularity.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
hmmm…seems a bit much for me. you must rmember aswell that the shift is in the light from stars, i.e. the redlift and the blue sift is shift in the light from distant stars moving towards or away from us. i really dont think their were any stars moving towards us when the key turned… and a big crunch would take millions of years to occur, even if it travelled at the speed of light…
being a physicist and a fan of lost i find this theory hard to believe, but a very good attempt. im more inclined to some sort of cover up though. we are yet to see anything majorly out of this world yet on lost… yes there is smokey and such, but we havent delmed into the world of the outer limits yet.. and if they do.. i hope they dont go to sciency on us… keep it pop sci, keep it pop philosophy too, mass appeal…big audience… good publicity for both areas of academia
Comment by NimishL — April 24, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Brian - how the failsafe could do that would be up to the writers to fictionalize. Obviously it would require the island to have some sort of unknown energy. How about a ‘Holographic” universe?
And, don’t feel bad about shooting anything down… I don’t consider a re-write in more concise terms shooting down as much as being anal about the whole thing.
(I’m joking Brian… smile…)
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Let me reitterate, the failsafe could have caused the big crunch to move faster (not to happen all at once), as DHARMA was attempting to stop it and Des unplugged the dam. If Des did not turn the key, the universe would have imploded at a greater rate (evidence-everything being sucked into the magnetic force walled up in the swan). I’m not saying I subscribe to this theory but if this were true, it would explain why Naomi came to the island days after the sky turned purple (or violet)…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
NimishL: Remember when the producers mentioned something about time moving at a different rate off the islamd. Fans pretty much obliterated that theory when Desmond’s time-line matched the 815r’s perfectly. HOWEVER, what if they were referring to only a brief period of time? What if during the failsafe period, time outside of that sphere went into ultra fast forward.
Comment by docarzt — April 24, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Doc, I’m not sure that Desmond’s timeline matches the 815ers. We’ve seen his consciousness jump to different times (future and past) quite often. We may have even seen his consciousness jump parallel timelines or alternate planes. I would not be surprised at all to find out it is modern time (2007) in the real world while the 815ers believe it’s October of 2004…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I think making the outside world be in a “current” time would be too confusing. If that were the case then they crashed in 2004 and it would be 2007 when we start season four in 2008. I don’t see that happening. Also, with the numbers I would think that something big has got to happen on their 108th day on the island.
Comment by bdub — April 24, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
With all due respect bdub, 2008 would start in 2008 (still end of 2004 815er time With all due respect bdub, 2008 would start in 2008 (still end of 2004 815er time
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Damn, I got cut off again!
It would still be 108 days for the 815ers. Time either moves slower on the island (which would make Doc’s center of the universe/big crunch theory more plausible) or time doesn’t exist here…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
I guess I’m not getting the whole rate of time thing (and I don’t think this is the first time that you and I have had misunderstandings cap). If they would say that instead of it being December 2004 that it is actually April 2007 off the island then it wouldn’t get to 2008 off the island at the start of season four given that there should only be 5/6 more days of island time in this season. Yeah, I’m starting to think that I’m just gonna let this time thing go because that last sentence was ridiculous.
Comment by bdub — April 24, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Damn…And I always thought it’s was reference to Purple Haze, the Hendrix song, hence the whole story being one giant trip….back to my school books…
Comment by JDSalinga — April 24, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
It will melt people’s minds if the Jack flashback sets up an alternate universe time line. That being said, anything can happen.
I like to think it will happen a little more simpler than time bending and black holes. Once you start dicking around with the space time continuum, you’re a heartbeat away from bending all the rules.
But who knows with this show? I’m in it to win it…I’ll be around til the zombie season at least..
Comment by El Prez — April 24, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
I have to say that I believe (and hope) that the writer’s “don’t go there,” so to speak. To me personally (probably the shippers and casual audience too) alternate universes and time crunching sound way too far fetched.
Having another universe drop into the story, as a result of Desmond turning a key, kind of cheapens or devalues all the backstories and everything that occurred the first timeline. Maybe I’m just nitpicking.
I guess I find the whole idea problematic because it is essentially Lost’s version of “The Hellmouth.” On Buffy, they introduced the Hellmouth right from the start, thus giving latitude to pretty much do anything plot-wise. The Lost “split universe” theory feels antithetical to the “Point A to point B” roadtrip analogy. If this is the direction of the show, then 3/4 into the trip the passengers have split up gotten different cars and are now going to two different locations.
These theories are definitely exciting but ultimately they feel like a Deus Ex Machina, where anything can be thrown out or dismissed by an “alternate universe.”
Comment by sandleford — April 24, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
El Prez, while I was rambling away, you succinctly conveyed my point.
Comment by sandleford — April 24, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
I don’t want to come across as a hater of all things time traveling. I love the idea and I love all the posts on the subject. Nick and Caps and Doc are throwing out some great stuff. We very well may be witnessing the cabal of the next great show on these forums.
But sometimes I like to play Devil’s Advocate and think about how this show needs to maintain it’s appeal to the MASSES….It’s gotta pay the bills. You throw too much in there and people will start to revolt….especially when a show doesn’t start that way..
I’m not saying it can’t evolve but it’s certainly come a long way in a short amount of time…
Comment by El Prez — April 24, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
I see what you’re saying bdub. It doesn’t fit that season 4 would start Jan. 2008 in the real world, but it would be the next day after season 3 ends for the 815ers. Good point. I guess that would only work if time does not exist at all on the island (which is possible). Otherwise there would have to be some kind of 1 month=1 year rule…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
A thought I’ve been pondering since reading Doc’s violet sky post.. If this island is the center of the universe (original big bang spot, eventual big crunch spot), then time would cease to exist. Think about it. If the sun is the center of our solar system, and we orbit the sun, then it would stand to reason that if there were a center of the universe, then everything in said universe would be orbiting that center. The closer you got to that spot (the island) the faster time (by our standards) would move. Days, months, years, decades, etc. are dependant upon orbit and rotation. Now if you were standing on that center, time would not exist. No days, months, etc. The sun still rises and sets, but it is orbiting the center where you are now stranded on from a mysterious plane crash (as opposed to you and the place you reside orbiting the sun). This would explain why aging still occurs within reproductive systems but not in physical appearance to those who are inhabitants of earth but not of the island (while living on the island). Our systems would be fubar. I have a tough time with the time change on a flight from the east coast to the west coast. It would also make sense that if the universe was extracted from this spot, it would eventually (maybe billions of years later) contract itself back. Again I’m not saying I subscribe to this theory, but I love it anyway (kind of like a lot of women that have come and gone). It would also fit into the not too complicated realm (I made it more complicated than needed). All we would need is an episode where Jacob said the big bang was real and now everything is collapsing back into itself. Considering the big bang has long been considered the most likely scenario of the beginning of our universe, then this would not be too hard to wrap your brain around…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Cap10Tripps: I humbly submit to your brillance, however, just because you discuss something doesn’t mean everyone else does. I’ve made the point before that I spend an awful lot of time wrapping my head around this show, most people who watch the show don’t. So you may be very prepared for multiverses, anomales, and time travel, but others aren’t. And I think Ahkbar up at the top of the posts summed it up best when he stated that these themes are a lot more substantial and complex than any of the other content that has been so far delivered by the TV show. Think about it, they’ve told us nothing in almost 3 seasons. They’ve kept most of our attention with smoke monsters and Kate half-naked, while you took away book titles that could only be made out using a DVR and other references that had to be looked up on Wikipedia. Yes, LOST is the Dennis Miller of serialized television. I think the audience is ready to suspend their disbelief, but I think Doc’s theory is way to complicated for the average viewer.
Comment by Higdon — April 24, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Higdon, I apologize if my post came off as being pompous. My point was that I am a layman. I don’t understand black holes, parallel universes, theoretical time travel, magnetic anomales, etc., but I do enjoy discussing and learning more about them. I do not consider myself any smarter than the next guy/girl who watches LOST. However, while you may not like indulging in these subjects, I do. Doc is right when he says you will not have to understand these things to “get” the show, but they remain interesting side bars (to me). I’m a writer at heart, so sometimes I don’t come off as I would in a face to face discussion. My “brilliance” (as you put it) is not meant to offend. People are here for different reasons. Mine is to expand my mind. I humbly respect your reasons as well…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
Time is a very important part of this show. It could very well be that Friar Campbell and Mrs. Hawking are Adam and Eve. Cuselof told us that Adam and Eve are an important part of the timeline of the show.
The swan could have been a mechanism that allowed the isalnd to exist at the same rate of time that the rest of the world experiences. Every 108, built up energy would need to dissipate to continue the cycle that island the exist at the same rate of time that the world does. This would explain the consistence of the timeline to that point. We need another confirmation after the fail-safe was activated that time is moving at a consistent rate.
All of this is consistent to scientific theory, where a gravitational source will cause time to move slower the closer you get to the source.
If we are closer the center of the universe and a strong gravitational source, a source stong enough to cause the universe to collapse, then time would pass much more slowly than bodies that are on the outer edge of the universe.
You could theoretically have the experience of a few days in our time equal thousands and possibly millions of years on the outer edges of the universe. These are logical conclusions to Einsteins proven observations of the theory of relativity. (that last sentence is not necessarily contradictory.)
How this relates to lost, with the fail-safe activated, the island returns to its time shifted existence because the gravitational anomaly is no longer fettered by the swan station.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 24, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
So time actually moves faster the further you move away from the center? The things you learn at thetailsection. BRILLIANT *drinking a guinness*
Comment by cap10tripps — April 24, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
There are a lot of really great ideas here. I just want to make what seem to be some obvious connections that might bring some of them together. How likely do you guys think it is that the island is Eden? That would account for a few things: the show’s incessant biblical references, Adam and Eve, perhaps even the four-toed statue.
In regards to the latter, I really like TabulaRasa’s idea that the Pearl was meant to keep the island’s time consistent with the rest of the world’s, and am inclined to believe that Desmond lived through an iteration of the entire universe. This might seem like a stretch, but perhaps the statue was evidence of a previous iteration of Earth in which humans had four toes. Perhaps the island/Eden has been inhabited by several versions of humans, some with certain powers, and the Losties are all descendants of previous iterations that shouldn’t be existing in the universe/iteration of the Oceanic flight’s — which would make their gathering and subsequent crashing on the island a kind of course-correction.
Comment by egg — April 24, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
I check this site a few times a day. I rarely post comments. I really dig most of what is being discussed. Everything I’ve read in the last two weeks has been pretty interesting. The time travel thing is going to be ok to a point. Time travel and the sort is a very difficult thing for people to wrap their brain around (mine included). I don’t think it will fly, so to speak, with the general public. Honestly, if I could get answers to some of the more burning questions I might be more willing to buy the multiple Des/Penny photos and Christian isn’t dead etc. As crazy as it sounds, I really want to know what happened to Walt and Michael. I don’t need to see what happened, but somebody on the show should find out and clue me in via a two minute informative speech around the campfire. I also want to say this… If Tricia Tanaka is Jacob I will sell my S1/S2 DVDs on ebay with no reserve and free shipping anywhere in the world.
Comment by jmaxx — April 24, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Cap10Tripps:
“However, while you may not like indulging in these subjects, I do.”
You started off so good, apologizing for sounding pompous. I believe I wasted my time writing that I spent a lot of time wrapping my head around this show. I guess you were too busy thinking about what you were going to write next that you didn’t really read what I posted. I think I’ll just go back to reading the garbage that Doc puts up everyday rather than trying to sustain some online argument with a dude who obviously didn’t take his ritalin today. Or leave his Mom’s basement for that matter.
Comment by Higdon — April 24, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
Higdon, man, chill. Have some of Jack’s forbiden mushrooms or something. This is an amazing thread. No one is being pompus. There are some brilliant ideas, theories, concepts and speculations herein. I agree with at least some part of what everyone has said.
My compliments to you all.
We’ve come a long way from two months ago when even this site(which I consider to be the best, most stimulating, most intelligent on the web) was inundated by the haters, frosties and shippers.
The one thing I will add to the actual discussion is this:
The dual (possibly multiple) timeline and vast time descrepency between them dropped from the sky in the physical form of an iphone last week. It will be further verified with Naomi’s revelation about the fate of flight 815 in the timeline from which she came. In other words, stop worring about, “if they go there.” They have. The challenge now is, how do they explain it to a much less-obsessed-than-us mass audience. I think they can do it, and that they can even satisfy us in the process.
Comment by gusteaux — April 24, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
I think, if anything, Chris’ post about halfway up comes closest to the mark, though I dont know anything, so whatever.
One of the things I DO know, is we all need to get together and party like young masters when the series finale rolls around.
Comment by Jimmy Zer0 — April 24, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
Googled as you suggested, Doc… seems “violet-shift” and blue-shift are one in the same, simply different terminology. Saw it referred to several times as “ultra-violet shift”, so they are just describing the extreme blue end of the spectrum, just as the extreme red-shift moves to infrared and microwaves but is still called red-shift.
Makes sense, it just wasn’t a term I had come across, it was always referred to as blue-shift. Very interesting idea as it pertains to the show.
Comment by mj — April 25, 2007 @ 5:54 am
Tabula,
My god man, I’m a doctor not a physicist. I believe you are on to something. Thinking of the island as Eden and the “center” of the universe. It explains virtually all time and Swan related matters. It is simple to understand for the masses, yet complex in nature. It fully ties the “faith vs fate” arguments, religeous references, and even the Friar and Mrs Hawking as Adam and Eve. WOW….I postulate…Smoky = God? The one that sits in JUDGEMENT of people? Could it be that simple?
Comment by maddogruf — April 25, 2007 @ 5:57 am
Right… well light in that spectrum of blue would suggest a speed only possible by contraction, for some reason…
Comment by docarzt — April 25, 2007 @ 5:59 am
That makes absolutely no sense at all. If the universe was destroyed, that means so was our sun. You can see the sun on every episode of Lost. Oh, and what about that little thing called gravity, wouldn’t that cease to exist as well?
Stop with them drugs, they’re making your mind into mush!
Comment by supa — April 25, 2007 @ 7:12 am
Dear lord…
Don’t you think your theory is a bit overstretched?
Here’s free physics lesson, Doc:
Visible light is just part of electromagnetic spectrum.
Huge magnetic force released over the island would bend/distort that waves or shift them toward ultra/infra part of the spectrum, thus creating “purple skies”.
As simple as that.
Comment by El Bradbury — April 25, 2007 @ 9:09 am
yeah i really hope the producers try and keep everything as logical as possible and don’t start turning lost into a complete sci fi show, im not into the whole ufo stuff and like a logical explanation for things, i really hope the smoke monster can still be explained in some sort of logical fashion, maybe it still is made of nanobots, however i’ve given up on the whole desmond time lapse thing, i wish they didn’t do that not star trek no no i need a science show damn it no more science fiction!
Comment by nickk — April 25, 2007 @ 9:59 am
by the way i’m aware nanobots are fictitious, but its a lot more logical being made of some physical matter rather than some sort of apparition!
Comment by nickk — April 25, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Wow Higdon, I was sincerely apologizing for seemingly offending you. It seemed as though you didn’t want to get into the things that I do (even if you yourself have been wrapping your head around LOST). I’m not sure what you’re so angry about, but I guess I’ll have to learn to accept you for who you are. I love you man…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 25, 2007 @ 10:16 am
supa, the universe was destroyed and fastforwarded, another iteration initiated, and then fastforwarded to moments after Desmond was ejected from the Pearl.
maddogruf, I think you’re absolutely right, re: the faith vs. science theme, which is why I like the Eden theory so much. I don’t think Smokey’s anything like god, however. There are a lot of parallels to Shakespeare’s Tempest, and I think it’s likely that Smokey is some sort of powerful Ariel-spirit, and that either Jacob of Ben is some kind of Prospero character. Aside from those analogies, I have no idea how to explain Smokey.
Comment by egg — April 25, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
Egg, you lost me at destroyed.
Comment by Supa — April 25, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
El Bradbury - it could be localized, or not. I was working out a scenario that would allow you to watch the big crunch, not necessarily raise an em barrier. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Comment by docarzt — April 25, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
This doesn’t really explain how we saw Penny and the researchers right after the purple sky.
Comment by DrIanMalcolm — April 25, 2007 @ 8:19 pm
El Bradbury,
Relax, mi amigo… DocArzt surely doesn’t need anyone to defend him, but as someone who has read this site for a long time now, I would say that Doc’s ideas aren’t always to be taken as a literal theoretical conclusion to the Lost mystery, but are frequently somewhat of a mind-stretching exercise.
Frequently, I myself do not agree with the ideas or theories he puts forth, or, as in this case, think they wouldn’t fit well as a resolution to a TV drama. I think that the point is to generate deeper thought and discussion.
For what it’s worth, I appreciate that, and find tremendous value in his site. Use it as a jumping-off point for your thoughts, that’s all.
Keep up the good work, Doc!
Comment by mj — April 25, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
This is actually the best theory I’ve heard regarding lots. Hats off to you. It would make perfect sense and would explain the loss of communication to the outside world.
Punching in the numbers in the station could have been maintaining the “Dark Energy” which drives the universe’s expansion and maintains the “Hubble Constant”. This would lead to a Big Crunch like effect and a violet shift. Cosmologists have pretty much disproved the big crunch theory due to the fact that the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate. However, if the dark energy was switched off, a big crunch would indeed occur.
If you assume the island survives the big crunch somehow and the Lost survivors are the only survivors of earth, they would be existing in some sort of black hole. Now the black hole connection would explain the changing time line theory and how “time” seems to be a major theme of the show, with all the flashbacks.
Excellent theory.
Comment by Spetz — April 26, 2007 @ 4:28 am