Lost 3.17 - Could it have been penny?
In changing the sequence of events, did Desmond change destiny? This concept may seem a bit far fetched, particularly to those of you who are averse to the whole time bending theory, but what if the parachutist was originally destined to be Penny?
Is it Charlie’s death that would have changed the time line? Perhaps not. Personally, I think the issue with whether or not to let Charlie die lay in Desmond’s latent inability to understand why Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Isaac. In the present island story, Desmond gets to learn how Abraham felt first hand except instead of sacrificing for the love of God he was sacrificing for the love of a woman.
He finds that he still cannot accept the demand of sacrifice, so he ‘chickens out’ - so to speak - and saves Charlie instead. Result: No reward. No Penny.
Penny was destined to appear, we see that in the flashes. Take a look:
.jpg)
Unfortunately, the people who know for sure aren’t going to be talking.
That exact screen shot can be found in his last flashback sequence. It’s from a previous episode.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-675.html
Comment by iowalost815 — April 19, 2007 @ 10:12 am
100% agree with this theory…and to be honest, i think that’s the first time i can say that about one of your theories!
Comment by anon — April 19, 2007 @ 10:14 am
I think the sacrifice equation is different: Desmond has to learn to give up his own selfish desires and fears for something greater. If he’d allowed Charlie to die in the hopes of making the parachutist become Penny, letting an innocent die so Desmond could be happy, he would have been committing a most selfish act. In the end, either the person in the suit was in it before Desmond was faced with the choice, or having Naomi appear from under the helmet is a bigger reward for some reason than having it be Penny.
And after all, if Pen’s on the Island, what can she do for them? In this case, it seems her emissary, in getting lost, can provide a clue to Penny about where to look.
Comment by Tim J. — April 19, 2007 @ 10:16 am
He is wearing the same scarf in both screencaps. I think the background may have been slightly altered as a redherring from TPTB or who knows. But the scarf is what does it for me. She was not supposed to be there.
Comment by Kevonski — April 19, 2007 @ 10:18 am
Not all of his flashes were from the future. One of the flashes was from the moment they took the picture together. You could even hear the flash go off. I think that scene was from when he told her he was leaving her.
Comment by AVREY97 — April 19, 2007 @ 10:18 am
I meant to add.. that TPTB did go to effort to add some green to it.. so ya never know with LOST. Your theory sounds very plausible.
Comment by iowalost815 — April 19, 2007 @ 10:18 am
I saw on the forums of someone who took this screenshot and compared with the one in FBYE’s. Its the exact shot, but high contrast and the green color bumped up. Here it is for comparison:
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/avi3000/untitled-1.jpg
Comment by capper — April 19, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Weren’t there flashes of him taking his photo with Penny as well? Those were in the past….
Comment by superheroboy — April 19, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Not being a firm believer in the “time loop” theories, I have to say that this appears to be Desmond projecting his own desires into these “flashes.” Or perhaps it is the island or smokey that purposefully injected those mental pictures into his mind in order to complete the greater task.
Comment by sandleford — April 19, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Could be from the distant future! Maybe Penny is on her way and will show up in the finale? That would make for a great cliffhanger. Penny shows up with a small army on the island and everyone thinks they’re rescued.
Comment by MikerMan — April 19, 2007 @ 10:29 am
i totally agree with Tim J. you said it better then i could have
Comment by LiLi — April 19, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Just posted this on another thread, then say that Doc posted this article. So, yes I am duplicating this here. My theory on this hasn’t changed yet. But comes into a clearer view.
Yes, he was expecting Penny. Charlie dying would have caused Penny to be in that helicopter. There is a strong redemption theme to the show (not presenting anything new here). When one makes amends for the mistakes in their life, they are then given the chance to relive those moments. They are killed on the island which releases them to make the right choices in the moments where they failed.
Charlie, once released from the island in death, goes back to avoid the drugs, be his brothers keeper, to make that hit song, or even make that chance contact with Penny that would have inspired her to be one on the helicopter. …to sacrifice everything to be with her love.
Charlie didn’t die so it is Naomi. On the next loop, there will be another opportunity to bring Des and Penny together, but Naomi is there and nothing can change that now, until she is killed off. When will the Naomi flashbacks begin?
Locke and Desmond, not being destroyed by the hatch are able to relive and retain memories from the loops. It might explain why they are at times confident and strong and at other times unsure and weak
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 10:32 am
Thanks, LiLi!
Comment by Tim J. — April 19, 2007 @ 10:33 am
yo doc arzt,
how cum there is no trailer for 3.18 yet, as i havent seen it lol.
Comment by rob — April 19, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Despite what everyone else thinks, I don’t see Penny as the type of woman who’d fly a helicopter to the island by herself.
Comment by boonesghost — April 19, 2007 @ 10:45 am
Disagree with you on this one. Remember they find the backpack with the book in it before he save Charlie? That book is in Portuguese. The people in the monitoring station at the end of Season 2 spoke Portuguese, so I think the parachutist is connected to them.
And since he found the book before the Charlie incident, it never was Penny.
Comment by Andrew — April 19, 2007 @ 10:46 am
This theory is flawed because the parachutist had already landed by the time des saved charlie. He would have had to do something different to change the outcome of penny and naomi
Comment by m — April 19, 2007 @ 10:49 am
Even though I don’t think (for the reasons above) that Penny was destined to come to the Island, but I do think Charlie is destined to die. We haven’t had any proof on the show that anything has actually been altered by a time loop. For example, Bernard and Rose weren’t replaced by Nikki and Paulo, as proved by Sawyer’s acquisition of some Phil Collins tunes–an intentional tip to theorists, I think. But Ms. Hawking demonstrated the way in which saving someone just sets them up for a different death later.
Immediately when Desmond revealed that he’d started saving Charlie, I knew it couldn’t last, and my first thought was that Charlie would have the chance to make his death mean something: he and Desmond can delay it until he can take a bullet for Jack, or hold back an Other so Claire and Aaron escape, or donate his organs to save Sun. Desmond, by sticking with the efforts to save Charlie as long as possible, will gain some measure of redemption, and Charlie will, in one stroke, redeem all his drug abuse, baby theft, faked kidnapping attempts, impulsive killing of Ethan, and general annoyance.
(And then Dom Monaghan can audition for a part in The Hobbit.)
Comment by Tim J. — April 19, 2007 @ 10:54 am
Exactly agree w/ that last post….it wouldn’t have made Penny be there instead of Naomi because when Charlie would have gotten pierced by the arrow, the parachutist ALREADY had ‘crash landed’ on the island…and had been hanging in the tree at least 2 - 3 hours time (because remember when they were first going to go into the jungle to investigate,it was still dark out, but Charlie said no, it’ll be light in 2 hours, we’ll go then). So…that wouldn’t have changed anything since Charlie’s “death” happened AFTER Naomi landed in the trees.
Comment by Kyle — April 19, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Maybe more plausible, expanding on something in a previous comment, is that the Portuguese crew found the island, and sent this chopper in to find information. Why it crashed is a mystery I am guessing they will touch on in this week’s episode, but it could be that the girl was sent there to find the island and see what the deal was for Penny, and maybe some island defense mechanism is what took out the chopper and lead to her crash.
I can’t buy that Penny would fly the helicopter herself. At most she would be on a ship somewhere in the vicinity of the island. She knows that this island is powerful, since she knew how to find it. I don’t think she would risk being the first person to try to land the copter on it.
Comment by John K — April 19, 2007 @ 11:17 am
It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out. The reality is that I put a lot of effort in trying to get my head around LOST and it’s numerous mysteries. The biggest problem I have with the multiple time line theory is that most people who watch LOST don’t put as much effort into understanding it as those who lurk on these LOST fansites. So do the producers think the average Joe, who hasn’t visited this website and seen all the easter eggs (Brief History of Time, Mittelos anagram, freeze frames of Desmonds future glimpses, etc.), is going to be able to digest multiple universes and parallel timelines? We can geek out and discuss it ad nauseum and we still have absolutely no idea what the hell is going on. By the way, that scene with Penny and Desmond last night was killer. The chemistry between those two reminds me a lot of Rose and Bernard. The power of love. Huey Lewis would be proud.
Comment by Higdon — April 19, 2007 @ 11:18 am
If you look in the “flash” it also shows charlie holding the parachute with Jin. So it his flashes charlie was still alive…
Comment by thedanceman — April 19, 2007 @ 11:19 am
“He finds that he still cannot accept the demand of sacrifice, so he ‘chickens out’ - so to speak - and saves Charlie instead. Result: No reward. No Penny.”
I see it differently. Desmond *did* make the sacrifice: He sacrificed Penny to save Charlie.
Of course, whether or not Desmond Gets It remains to be seen. It’s possible that Desmond could resent saving Charlie, while Charlie is now more hesitant to trust Des. Which, all things considered, does not make the future look bright for Charlie.
Thank you for posting the screen cap. I thought I saw a blonde woman in the flashes, but, well, this is Lost. ‘Could have been a half a dozen different characters.
Comment by S. A. Bonasi — April 19, 2007 @ 11:28 am
A couple of things:
In Desmonds original flash, at the beginning of the episode, he clearly sees Charlie helping them get the woman out of the tree. So, did he see a flash of what would happen if Charlie didn’t die or is that a foul up?
Also, I believe the old woman and the monk are psychics. The monk helped him meet Penny and the old woman gave him a reason to leave her. That being said, would that also make Libby in on the whole thing since she’s the one who supplied Desmond with the means to get to the island? Wouldn’t she have known that he was in the race to win the respect of Penny’s father? It seems a little convenient that she was on the island later, maybe making sure something else went to plan, like maybe keeping Hurley alive for some reason.
In closing: this whole thing about the chick in the tree being Penny until Charlie was saved is pure junk!
Comment by thefallguy1 — April 19, 2007 @ 11:30 am
If you go back and look at things from the beginning of his flashbacks he sees Jin, Hurley AND CHARLIE holding the parachute to catch the unidentified (but named namoi thanks to IMDB) parachutist. If charlie had died from the Russo booby trap he wouldn’t have been there in his flashback to catch Naomi. Therefore either Desmond can see alternate futures and picks between them or charlie was really supposed to be saved.
Comment by Blairty — April 19, 2007 @ 11:32 am
Oh and to thefallguy1, I apologize for ripping off your statement, I didn’t read that far down, but I do 100% agree with you and you bring up an incredible point about Libby! Kudos
Comment by Blairty — April 19, 2007 @ 11:34 am
The whole conflict of the episode is Desmond can have everything he wants, he just has to let Charlie die. That is the Catch-22 is it not?
Then, then why all of the emphasis on Isaac, Abraham and Mt. Moriah? Why all of the build up to the identity of the Parachutist?
If the flashes are of something that will happen, then why the two divergent flashes, one of Charlie helping and one of Charlie dying. They went to a lot of effort to make this theme resonate.
I still think the question of “if charlie died…” is valid, and that there is a cause and effect here.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Tab - if you don’t believe in time bending, then the divergent flashes means Des sees possiblities/probabilities and not necessarily what is; if you believe in the whole time-loop thing, it might be that he’s done it both ways before… but keeps coming back until he gets the entire thing “right”
Comment by SeenMy Luggage? — April 19, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
What if Desmond sees Penny in a “flash” but it is not really Penny? We’ve seen numerous occasions of people seeing things that aren’t real on the island. So Desmond could be seeing the manifestation of Penny. Since the Others know seemingly everything about the Losties they could even be behind the pilot somehow. I don’t know how, but I also don’t know how Anothy Cooper got there either.
Comment by bdub — April 19, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
Apparently none of you have noticed that further in the original flash forward there were three people holding the parachute to catch Naomi…. If Des really was supposed to let Charlie die where would the third person come from to catch Naomi?
Comment by makesnodifference — April 19, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
Penny’s lipstick looks DAMN freshly applied to have just survived a parachute escape. If that was supposed to be her on the Island, the costume department needs to get it together.
And, as a late aside, they also had Bai Ling wearing this-season (ie available now in select stores only!) Prada shoes in Jack’s Thailand flashback - either that is one well-connected tatoo artist with some friends in Milan or they think that us fashion types aren’t watching!
WE ARE.
Comment by Dennis M — April 19, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
I don’t agree with the theory. And I know Desmond mentioned “sacrificing” Charlie but I think he was just grasping at things to have it all make sense to him. He really truly believed that Penny was coming and he wanted to get to her in time. He saw in his flash that he gets to her and so he didn’t want to change anything that happened since that might change whether or not he actually gets to her. When he saved Charlie he risked altering his path somehow. I don’t think it was ever Penny and whether or not Charlie had died the outcome would have been the same. Now, if he had taken Jack and Sawyer instead of Hurley and Charlie (since they slowed him down) he may have gotten there faster or maybe not at all. That’s why he didn’t want to change anything.
I didn’t catch that glimpse of her in his flash but I will certainly look again. Thats very weird. But remember, his flashes are like puzzle pieces all jumbled up so he can’t really see the whole picture. Maybe that is part of the story but later on.
More proof that he was destined to save Charlie…
During his flash at the beginning Charlie was there holding the parachute helping. If he had died like shown in flash he wouldn’t be there.
Comment by AnotherOther — April 19, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
Thats the exact same thing I thought and discussed with my friend last night after the episode aired.
Comment by valentin_50 — April 19, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
If we hadn’t glimpsed the photo of Desmond and Penny in the book, I would have wagered that this new altered reality that Desmond created, also created a new “Penny,” i.e. now known as Naomi…with that being said, I would speculate that this mysterious parachutist was sent via the two Brazilian men/Penny…
Comment by Todd Anthony — April 19, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
“The whole conflict of the episode is Desmond can have everything he wants, he just has to let Charlie die. That is the Catch-22 is it not?”
Catch-22 pretty much means damned if you do damned if you don’t.
That means that no matter what Desmond did, I dont think Penny would not have arrived. It was always going to be the mystery woman no matter what Desmond did to change that.
I think it was pretty much a test, like Desmond (and much like Isaac and Abraham) to see if Desmond would sacrifice Charlie in order to have the one thing he desired most.
Comment by AVREY97 — April 19, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
” I think it was pretty much a test, like Desmond (and much like Isaac and Abraham) to see if Desmond would sacrifice Charlie in order to have the one thing he desired most. ”
This is what I’m agreeing with until next episode. Besides, the fact that there was a copy of Catch-22 in the episode plainly draws this conclusion for us.
Comment by dylan — April 19, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
you know, the flash of penny could be from farther into the future. she still could show up on the island.
Comment by goldenmalicious — April 19, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
Agree with Blairty:
Desmond’s flash INCLUDES CHARLIE ALIVE, when he foresees them catch the parachutist.
Comment by Santa — April 19, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
My biggest questions is:
Why is there a picture of Naomi on Ben’s desk?
(When Juliet went to Ben’s office to tell him about the tumor he had)
What’s that doing on his desk? What’s the relation?
Comment by Danny — April 19, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
This flash was from the past (episode 8, minute 34, second 12) it is the break up scene. So this has already happened! Now I do not know about this time loop thing. But I strongly believe, this will not happen again in the future! Esp. because Des would not break up with her again at the same point…whats weird is, this was from Desmonds “flashback” in episode 8, but in that episode he was already aware of the islands, recognized charlie and was told by the woman what to do…so again i couldnt swear that this was not involved with the time loop…as I am totally thrown off from episode 8…i dont think that penny would have come if charlie died…as that was nothing he could have changed by letting him die…and charlie wont die…i think penny and des will reunite…but that might still be a long time away
Comment by benofgermany — April 19, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
What makes Desmond see the flash in the first place? It seems to me he’s manifesting his own flashes. Desmond orchestrated the journey into the jungle BASED on a flash of him going into the jungle. It’s not like they were all just walking along, found the cable and started heading toward the parachutist.
Desmond created that moment.
He saw Charlie get struck by lightning and die, so he built the lightning rod.
He saw Charlie drown, trying to save Claire, so he dove in and rescued her.
He saw Charlie get wrecked on the rocks trying to get the migrating bird, so he went to retrieve it.
But the journey into the jungle is how Charlie dies this time.
The journey wasn’t an accident. It was planned. Or implanted. Desmond knew that Penny would send someone to find him, he just hasn’t recalled that particular loop.
Imagine a straight line. That’s the current time line.
Now imagine Desmond looping in and out at various points on the time line, planting clues or plans for future or past Desmond.
My head hurts.
Comment by El Prez — April 19, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
If you look at his shirt in his photo of him and Penny, you can see that his hair is scraggly enough, and he was wearing that color orange. On the island, he was wearing blue, so it can’t work.
Comment by Kelly — April 19, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
I don’t see how if charlie had died, penny would have been in the place of the other girl.
First off, they saw the plane and the woman drop before charlie died? How would charlie’s death change that? The island swap the two women? If thats the case, then the island would have control of both womens anyways .. meaning penny may still be in play somehow?
Comment by Matthew — April 19, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
That looks like a toilet in the background~!
Comment by aly — April 19, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
another comment to my other post — we see two things crash into the ocean. How did the girl end up in a tree in the jungle?
Comment by Matthew — April 19, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
I dismissed this earlier, but I think it is relevant. one evidence of Time Looping is the photograph. The Lost reality has one photograph existing in two locations, the island with Desmond and on Penny’s nightstand. A copy of Penny’s was made for Naomi. (And yes, the original could have been copied, but I think Desmond broke up with Penny after the photograph was taken).
Someone re-watch “flashes…” and give us a better time-line, or circle. The “flash” of Penny is possibly when they broke up.
It is no less improbable than a giant monster of smoke recording peoples memories.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
The Penny flash– it’s probably an event that hasn’t happened yet. Has nothing to do with Desmond saving Charlie and this other broad being on the Island instead of Penny.
Comment by D — April 19, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
If that was supposed to be Penny dangling from the parachute but by preventing another course correction of killing Charlie caused it to be Naomi instead that doesn’t make any sense. In last night’s episode, Desmond clearly believed that he had to faithfully recreate his future flashes for the parachutist to be Penny. In other words if Jin hadn’t come with them, if Hurley was talking about Spider-Man vs Superman or if Charlie hadn’t been killed with an arrow through the throat then the future events would turn out differently - you get Naomi instead of Penny. Well if Charlie was supposed to have died in the hatch explosion then Penny was fated never to arrive on the island, or at least by parachute. If the universe is doing any kind of course correction it seems to be centered more on keeping Desmond and Penny apart.
Comment by dre7861 — April 19, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
I believe the course correcting is involving the death of Charlie. The universe/island is moving in for the kill on Charlie and Desmond keeps thwarting it.
The choice for Desmond is to continue to live a courageous life of self-sacrifice for the greater good, or sacrifice his soul for the one he loves.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Anyone notice that the flash sequences moved in reverse after dream sequence of Charlie’s death.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 8:13 pm
I think the interesting thing here is that Desmond’s flashes contained a contradiction. Charlie dies by an arrow to the throat, yet Charlie is alive to help hold the parachute. I think the flashes this time contained a choice. Disregarding the whole “Could it have been Penny?” question (which I believe it could have been), the flashes this time seemed to leave an open choice to Desmond in order to resolve the contradiction–save Charlie or let him die. Regardless of what Desmond chose, a portion of of what he envisioned would have come true. Obviously, if Charlie had taken the arrow to the throat he couldn’t have been alive to hold the parachute, so why the contradictory information in Des’s flashes?
I think Desmond’s choices, and their consequences, are being made more plain to him over time. I think it’s becoming more painful for Desmond to choose to save Charlie. Whether it’s the island that is forcing this or some other factor, I don’t know. It’s probably a part of course-correction. Reality is putting more pressure on Desmond each time he saves Charlie, which in turn is starting to make Desmond think the effort is futile and is alienating Charlie/making him suspicious of Desmond.
I think the Island or whatever is upping the ante on Des.
Back to whether or not it could have been Penny if Desmond had made the choice to let Charlie die, I think it could have been. Schrodinger’s Cat.
Comment by Lance — April 19, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
Desmond changed the course of events, the second he asked for the First Aid Box.
Comment by Shano — April 20, 2007 @ 12:58 am
Is it just me or is that a toilet in the background of the picture?!?! Surely there isn’t a toilet in the meiddle of the jungle except for the statoins. My guess is that it was never meant to be Penny but this “flash” will happen further into the future and that Naomi is indeed connected with the Scientists in the sky, hence she knows who Desmond is as Penny is trying to track him down and has probably given them pictures of him, and that this was perhaps a test run to see if the Island could be entered. Saving Charlie didn’t alter the change of events and Desmond was being tested again as to whether he would be selfish to let Charlie die with the hope that it’s Penny coming or save him thus doing the unselfish thing as he did by sacrificing his happiness to go to the island in his previous flashback.
Comment by R Frost — April 20, 2007 @ 1:41 am
the Parachutist was saved BECAUSE Charlie was saved. desmond was then able to save TWOlives.if charlie had died, they would NEVER have searched for the parachutist, who would have died in the tree.
I will never believe that Desmond would have been rewarded for letting Charlie Die.
This is a trick of the “island” to make Des think he needs to let Charlie die, but I think that if he ever really lets him die for Penny, he will lose her.
No events changed because Charlie wassaved
He needs to think about the whole mount Moriah/Abraham story, that isaac was never sacrificed. Des should NEVER sacrifice Charlie. LOCKE will be punished for sacrificing Boone.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 20, 2007 @ 8:32 am
HH -
I am not necessarily agreeing with you, but I pondered that same question. The thing that triggered that thought was that the first sequence of Charlie dying was clear, not like his other flashes which have a high contrast. It was more like when Ana Lucia appeared to Eko after she was shot.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 20, 2007 @ 9:34 am
There is absolutely no way the parachutist was supposed to be Penny. Since the backpack was already found and the parachutist had already fallen to the island the only way to explain that it would’ve been Pen is that the island knew he would save Charlie and took his reward away. Pretty silly huh? NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE PENNY. The flash is probably a future event that the island shows him to ensure his following of certain paths. I think the island wants Des to save Charlie. Why I’m not sure, but my best guess would be that it has something to do with Aaron…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 20, 2007 @ 9:39 am
That shot is just from a previous episode.
But here is something to consider:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RifJe7vUgJI/AAAAAAAAEYk/HO9N8mChNb8/s1600-h/parachutecatch.jpg
A scene from the flash clearly shows that Charlie was supposed to stay alive, despite what Desmond may believe.
Comment by KRis — April 20, 2007 @ 11:16 am
OK, IF I have missed this before forgive me but I just found the capture for Orientation and THE Photo.
LOOK here:
- Orientation Episode, THIS IS NOT EVEN PENNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47263.html
This is a different woman wearing a different shirt, as is Desmond, the film shows Desmond with a worn (ie worn shirt not a crisp new one never before washed) yet this photo and others show a crisp collared shirt, same color but looser. While the backgrounds are simular they are not the same. The remaining photos are PENNY PHOTOSHOPED INTO THE picture of Desmond and the other woman (wearing white)
as shown here.
The sun is clearly from the left of the shot yet Penny is completely lit up. While a flash would ‘fill in’ her it would also fill in him as well
- Season Two Finale- Penny’s nightstand
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1085-1407.html
- Naomi’s copy
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1278-81.html
- Proof other photos exist, Why else would there be a moving box labeled Photos?
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-85315.html
- the set for the shot, Desmond with another shirt, the background is not the same as the ones in the photos
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-85689.html
- instant photo developed, NOT digital, NOT negative film, - 1 shot, 1 picture, the scene only show 1 shot being made.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-648.html
- THE ONE AND ONLY PICTURE
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-656.html
- The picture Desmond finds AFTER the hatch explosion
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-742.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-747.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-751.html
You will clearly see something is not right here. I make the case the real photo is taken from a real boat.
1 - You will notice the there are no clouds in the backdrop but in the photo there is.
2 - You will notice in the pic des has there is a slight gap between Des and Penny, the one Penny has does not.
3 - Penny’s hair is very slightly different, with a curl at the front instead of a slope
4 - There is boat railing in the photo to the right of them that is NOT in the backdrop and yet is in the photo.
5 - The boats are completely different in the backdrop than what is in the picture and they even differ in the pcitures.
THERE ARE SOO MANY DIFFERENCES I could go on for days.
Lostie’s, DESMOND IS NOT time traveling in his head, his is DEFINITELY looping.
Prez, Cap10 - am I seeing things here?
Comment by thirdflr — April 20, 2007 @ 11:36 am
thrdflr- that was excellent.
I am just still stuck on why anyone, including desmond, would think that desmond would need to sacrifice Charlie, let him die, to be rewarded, and to get to Penny. That just does NOT make sense.
That is why i don’t get this episode.
i wish someone could explain this episode to me. It doesn’t seem as though anything changed by saving charlie, and i can’t believe that he would have gotten the message from his days as a Monk that he needed to sacrifice people. He should get the opposite view, since Isaac was never sacrificed.
The whole purpose and premise of the episode just did not make sense or play out in the end.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 20, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
HH -
Read my response to your last post in “Brother Campbell - Because somethimes ‘course correction’ needs a helping hand” article. Then let me know how way off I am.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 20, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
I see that most of you are against this theory, but I definitely believe that had Desmond let Charlie die, the parachutist would have been Penny. Desmond himself says that his flashes are like puzzle pieces that lead to a completed picture. If you change the pieces of the puzzle (Charlie dying) then the final picture (Penny) changes (other girl).
I understand that there are flashes showing Charlie helping with the parachute, and that yes the parachutist had already landed, so whoever was there was there. But I think you have to take a more philosphical approach. For instance, imagine a deck of cards. You shuffle the deck a few times. What is that top card? It can by anything, right? You don’t know what that card is until you flip it over. Once you do, obviously it can’t change. Let’s say you turn over the five of hearts. Now you know that before you turned it over, that card was the five of hearts. It always was.
However, philosophically speaking, you can make the argument that even though you now know that the card was the five of hearts, before you turned that card over, it could have been any card. The top card may as well have been flashing randomized numbers and suits until you turned it over. And there’s no way to prove that it wasn’t. Don’t you just love philosophy?
I think this episode wants us (the viewers) to question whether or not it could have been Penny, just like it wants Desmond to question it. That’s the great part about this show. Faith vs. Reason has always been a predominant theme within Lost. It’s why the “should they or shouldn’t they push the button” storyline was so engrossing. Did it really mean something pushing that button? Or was it all just to see how long a person would push it?
And we all know how that turned out…
Comment by Richard K — April 20, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Richard -
I buy into that. The major argument against it is that the parachutist was already on the island when Charlie was “saved” by Desmond. But, if we are talking about any kind of time anomaly, then A + B does not have to equal C.
Letting Charlie die could have caused a series of events through various “connections” that would end with Penny standing next to that helicopter with Naomi saying, “This is something I have to do, Naomi stay here.”
Same uniform, same pack, same hula girl, same satellite phone, but a different person.
Instead, saving Charlie left Penny in Hawii telling Naomi that they would monitor her location through her satellite phone.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 20, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
I agree with Richard K (great comment btw), but I also think that there’s something truly different about this latest series of flashes on the part of Desmond. They contain contradictory information.
In the past, Des has had flashes showing him Charlie’s death. He’s intervened and changed the course of events. Charlie dies in the flashes; Des comes to the rescue and Charlie lives.
In this latest series of flashes, Des can only partially change the course of events in his flashes. He can save Charlie (leading to Charlie holding the parachute) or let Charlie take the arrow to his throat (eliminating Charlie being there to hold the parachute).
Des can neither entirely fulfill nor entirely negate these most recent flashes, which it seems to me makes them different in some way. The flashes offer Desmond a choice. They’re not an image of what ‘will’ happen, they’re suggestions of at least two alternate paths toward what ‘could’ happen. And perhaps the outcome of those two paths might be radically different (Penny vs. Naomi). Change the pieces and you change the picture on the box.
Of course, it could all be an editing error…
Then again, it occurs to me that we haven’t ’seen’ Desmond’s other death flashes concerning Charlie. It may be that this is the normal pattern, that he sees Charlie die, and sees Charlie alive doing something shortly after if he hadn’t died, and that this is what helps influence Desmond’s decisions.
Comment by Lance — April 20, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
So nobody else thinks it’s a toilet then lol? On a completely different note, and I apologise if this has been discussed (perhaps someone could post a link), in Expose - does anyone else hear the monster right before the spiders come and bite Nikki? Anyone else think that the monster morphed into the spiders and bit her, similare to becoming Eko’s brother (perhaps?). Is the monster exacting revenge for acts of harm between people? Locke sacrificed Boone and then got dragged by the monster towards the underground (whilst Locke may believe that it was to show him the secrets of the island, was it?), Eko for getting his brother killed, Nikki for paralysing Paulo, it chased after Juliet for killing Danny? Thoughts please
Comment by R Frost — April 21, 2007 @ 1:55 am
There is a colour shifted version of that photo floating around, the producers changed the colour so it looks like penny was in the jungle but you will notice that the object behind her is a park bench or seat, i havent seen any of those on the island (yet)
Comment by matthew — April 21, 2007 @ 4:28 am
The podcast of the producers just confirmed, Desmond did change the course of events! However they do not go into Penny being on the island, they only say that the episode “manifested” that Desmond believes Charlie needs to die in order to be reunite with Penny.
Now if that is a reality…they dont tell us…
They offer the explanation: If Desmond was to die, maybe Charlies death curse is lifted off his shoulders…hmm
I believe Charlie will be kept alive, and I do believe Desmond and Penny will have a happy end…so I think there will be a solution! Similar to the fail-safe key..
Comment by benofgermany — April 21, 2007 @ 6:03 am
Charlie has almost died since he first landed on the Island. He almost died when the engine blew up in the pilot. He almost died when Ethan hung him in a tree. He easily could have died when the swan hatch blew up. (Also he could have died when the Dharma van was careening down hill headed for rather large rocks.) Long before Desmond, Charlie was having near misses with death. I believe that Charlie will not die until he saves someone himself. If you watch the Charlie centrice episodes it makes it clear he is supposed to save someone. Until that happens he will not die and maybe will not die at all.(Lost is usually less predictable than that.)
As far as Desamond goes he committed to changing things when he brought the medical kit with him on their trip. After Charlie was hit by the arrow he would try to save him but the flashes showed Charlie helping catch Naomi. So the only thing that changed was that because he thought that would happen to Charlie he brought the first aid bag. How he really will change things is that next week he will save Naomi’s life with the first aid kit. Then instead of her dying they will find out what she knows and that will affect their future choices. Remember he said that he almost became a doctor and that was why he offered to help Jack with his sprained ankle at the stadium. So he has medical ability and knowledge.And apparently an unlikely nemisis will help him.
Back to Charlie, the song that Charlie wrote for him and Liam was called “Saved”. His mother & Liam repeatedly told him he needed to save their family by becoming a musician and in his dream his mother & Claire tell him he has to save Aaron over and over repeating it. In “Greatest Hits” I think we will find out why Charlie is a more important character than we think and who it is that he has to save???????
Comment by H20 — April 21, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
H2O, on board 100%. I believe the island is showing Desmond his flashes of Charlie dying for a reason. The reason is to save Charlie who must save Aaron. I think Aaron is a very important element to the story. We just haven’t gotten into that part yet. It may be so important that we won’t get into it until we get closer to the end game…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 21, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
andreas grand auto 100 san theft
Comment by grand iso san auto andreas theft — April 21, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
Interesting new info on the Charlie centric episode.
This link is to the spoiler page so don’t go there if you do not want to be spoiled.
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-filming-updates.html
Comment by H20 — April 22, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
Am I the only one who sees the toilet? Why would there be a toilet in the middle of the jungle? I know I am not seeing things
Comment by lostfan — April 23, 2007 @ 9:38 am
Lostfan I think what you see is a woodenbox that is part of the elaborate trap triggered by the wire.It is opposite the arrow in a tree.That is what I see anyways.
Comment by H20 — April 23, 2007 @ 10:56 am