Brother Campbell - Because somethimes ‘course correction’ needs a helping hand
So why was Mother Time in the picture with Brother Campbell? Ancient secret order of time keepers? Sound crazy? Consider this.
Desmond almost committed to a major life altering event, he nearly married Ruth. This might have been a big enough change to throw off his destiny, or alter the world around him in such a way that the needed end result - to protect mankind (or the universe) - could not be achieved. Enter Brother Campbell.
Desmond somehow finds himself teleported at the feet of Brother Campbell after asking god what the purpose of his life is. Sure, he’s drunk, but none the less Brother Campbell nudges him back into his path. A path to where? To becoming a monk? No, Brother Campbell knew all along that Desmond was not destined to be a monk. He knew that Desmond was destined to arrive at an island, be taken to a strange underground lab, and punch numbers every 108 minutes.
I figure the ‘blackout’ Desmond had wasn’t due to drinking too many pints. Thoughts?
my question is, had Desmond let Charlie die, would that person parachuting have been Penny?
Comment by peter — April 19, 2007 @ 9:29 am
I see someone mentioned, the old lady(mother time, whatever you call her) she was in a movie called “The Others” with Nicole Kidman, WOW how ironic!!! It seems there is a lot of “others”, even in the outside world. Like that lady, the monk, Penny’s dad, the company Mittlelos…etc.
Comment by John — April 19, 2007 @ 9:36 am
I’m working on that…. next post…
Comment by DocArzt — April 19, 2007 @ 9:37 am
YES!!!!!!!! Doc, thanks so much for saying that!! Thats exactly what I thought! Only I was thinking that they were both the island speaking to him, but hey, yours sounds just as good!!
heres mine, its kind of crappy, but Im sure you’ll get the jist of it…
I believe that Des really did originally go into the ring store and walked back out. But when it happened the second time (flashback) Des realized that he wanted to be with Penny and went to buy the ring. The island then stepped in to correct that mistake and then told him about his current powers. Just like last night when Des was “convinced” he was meant to stay and be a monk, the island again stepped in and corrected it in the form of the monk telling him that he was meant for something much greater than that life.
Perhaps thats what it has been doing all along. The island is using the losties flashbacks as a way to prepare them, to remind them of their past mistakes,to test them and see if they’ve learned from them, to course correct them and lead them on the path to the island and their greater good.(Since Locke is insistant that they’re all there for a reason)
A good example of this is Eko. Since coming to the island, Eko had been presenting himself as a priest. But the island knew that that was untrue. He was no priest by any means. He had too many flaws, too many sins that had not been forgiven. So the island gave him that opportunity, to repent for his sins and continue on as the priest he had become. But Eko didn’t want to do that, he did not want to be forgiven because he thought that his sins were what lead him to the person he had become. So the island had no choice but to kill him. He was not following the path.
Comment by AVREY97 — April 19, 2007 @ 9:40 am
So, perhaps this Ancient Order of Time Keepers (who fight to keep destiny intact) are the ones the Others are fighting in their battle to achieve free will.
Comment by ShrikeSpike — April 19, 2007 @ 9:42 am
I wonder if mother time and the priest have 4 toes
Comment by brandon — April 19, 2007 @ 9:57 am
I like where Avrey97 is sort of going. While I don’t think it’s the “Island” making these moves, I do think it’s those that are trying to either expose the Island or bring it’s resources to the masses.
The thing that gets me is that awful photoshopped picture. I really can’t believe that a show of this caliber would work something so shoddy into the production. It doesn’t make sense!
Which then leads me to believe that if it is the Island that’s creating these avenues for Desmond to travel down, then possibly I could see it mashing the old lady and the monk into a picture.
I mean, the damn thing looks like a collage!! They aren’t even looking at the same thing!! It’s clearly cropped and piss poor….
That leaves me more baffled than ANYTHING on the show…I can excuse mysteries in the writing and what the black smoke is and who’s still DHARMA but throw a half assed piece of produced material on a desk and I get hung up for days..
Let’s not forget that Juliet was looking at a MALE chart for her sister’s cancer last week.
The continuity and production department must be on permanent vacation.
Comment by El Prez — April 19, 2007 @ 10:02 am
good thoughts, i dont know whats going on but its coming together sooo well!! the fact that the old woman and the monk know each other is awesome. i need to watch it again but for now it does seem that they are steering des in the right direction to stay on the path.
i guess they knew that widmore would send penny to get the wine, and they need des in that boatrace so he would crash on the island.
has anyone else read dune btw? if these guys can see all the different alternate futures then its looking a bit “god emperor of dune” like, nice
Comment by rich — April 19, 2007 @ 10:07 am
My theory on this hasn’t changed yet. But comes into a clearer view.
Yes, he was expecting Penny. Charlie dying would have caused Penny to be in that helicopter. There is a strong redemption theme to the show (not presenting anything new here). When one makes amends for the mistakes in their life, they are then given the chance to relive those moments. They are killed on the island which releases them to make the right choices in the moments where they failed.
Charlie, once released from the island in death, goes back to avoid the drugs, be his brothers keeper, to make that hit song, or even make that chance contact with Penny that would have inspired her to be one on the helicopter. …to sacrifice everything to be with her love.
Charlie didn’t die so it is Naomi. On the next loop, there will be another opportunity to bring Des and Penny together, but Naomi is there and nothing can change that now, until she is killed off. When will the Naomi flashbacks begin?
Locke and Desmond, not being destroyed by the hatch are able to relive and retain memories from the loops. It might explain why they are at times confident and strong and at other times unsure and weak.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 10:28 am
So, you’re saying that in the three years Desmond has been missing Penny learned to fly a helicopter and then learned how to parachute, not to mention the ability to control said helicopter in a time of crisis…I’m not saying that it’s impossible, but doesn’t seem like the daughter of a wealthy man. Nor does it seem like someone who could hire a couple of Portugese sleuths to station themselves on a ball of ice and wait for an electromagnetic anomaly. She’s resourceful not GI Jane.
Comment by elixirmm — April 19, 2007 @ 10:54 am
Let me present this.. the woman in the helecopter, stuck in the tree was in the tree at the time Charlie was to be killed. So how is it possible that saving Charlie changes the identity of who was already in that tree?
Comment by tom — April 19, 2007 @ 11:10 am
Go ahead Tabula! Sounds like I’ve convinced you that Locke is time traveling too. And I agree with everything else in your post too. elixirmm: what makes you think there wasn’t a pilot that went down with the helicopter in addition to the parachutist?
Comment by gusteaux — April 19, 2007 @ 11:20 am
gusteaux, im with you there, i realised that locke had traveled as well as des when i got cought in a rain shower a few weeks ago! remember season one when he knew it was going to rain in like 5 seconds, and it did? im still not sure it would have been penny if he’d let charlie die tho, but then again, at 1st i didnt believe des had traveled in time
Comment by rich — April 19, 2007 @ 11:25 am
I’ve been trying to flesh out a theory since my first viewing of Catch 22, but it isn’t going anywhere. See if any of you can do anything with it. Originally there was one photo of Des and Pen. Now there are two. Now, for the first time, they are both in the same location, and both in Des’ possession. Obviously, some degree of Des’ shock upon opening the book and seeing the second photo was due to his realization that there shouldn’t have been a second photo. The point i’m grappling with is this: Does the fact that the two photos are now in the same place in the same tmeline mean that the two timelines have converged?
Comment by gusteaux — April 19, 2007 @ 11:26 am
The photo that was in the book was a copy from an all in one printer or a color copier.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 19, 2007 @ 11:31 am
Im with you on that tabulaRasa, i though it was a color copy of the pic as well… and i also dont think it ever was going to be Penny either in that parachute.
Comment by themachine — April 19, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
yeah, the pic in the book was a photostat, i think it was on folded paper, but ill have to check. the fact remains though, that only 1 pic was given to them when it was took, and pen has one by her bed, and des has 1 too. so far i think hes only been back in time once, when he turned the key, but one time he took the pic, the other time she did. also i guess the bigger fact is that this girl in the tree was sent by penny!! its not been that long for them since they spotted the anomaly. god i cant wait to see the rest of this.
Comment by rich — April 19, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Just something for your easter eggs…not sure if there is anything to it but at one point they have a close up of Brother campbell and he has one light blue eye and one dark brown eye…again with the light and dark references…like the white and black stones…like yin and yang…and so on….also the shot of Penny in the island with desmond…you can see (although could be a reflection)…looks like a Y in white….maybe something maybe not.
Comment by Ravred — April 19, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
oops sorry in Penny’s eyes is what I meant to say
Comment by Ravred — April 19, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Doc, I mentioned this in a previous post. Ms. Hawking could very well be a metaphoric angel. It’s possible she’s and agent of an ancient race of fate/time mongers who are the original inhabitants of the island. I do not believe Ben and his group of others are island natives. They are either DHARMA or a rival group of the same sort…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 19, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
Doc, I’m thinking Des is their apprentice, in time will be doing the same job of watching the world and keeping us humans from annihilation.
Comment by tonilost — April 19, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
Could Brother Campbell be JACOB?
How freaky would that be? I think it’s possible.
Cheers
Comment by Lost_in_Brazil — April 19, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
Could Brother Campbell be an name allusion to Joseph Campbell of “The Power of Myth” fame? It would certainly be appropriate.
Comment by dre7861 — April 19, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Rich, what you said about Locke going back in time too was really interesting, I didn’t realise at first but that was the episode Locke sacrificed Boone, just like Des was going to sacrifice Charlie
Comment by Chris — April 20, 2007 @ 6:22 am
Hi All, I need some help inderstanding this episode, because I cannot understand it AT ALL.
Desmond was meant to kill Charlie?? How can sacrificing Charlie be Good?
It doesn’t seem to me that anything was altered because charlie was saved, because they heard the helicopter sputter and plop at the beach at night.
Wouldn’t it make sense that saving Charlie would be a good thing for Desmond to do? That he is showing that he would not let a man die just so that he could fulfill his own desires?
Just because he sees a vision doesn’t mean that he is SUPPOSED to let him die- it may mean that he has free will to save him if he is strong ebnough?
It does NOT seem that anything changed- the woman was in the tree, and it was not Penny. In his vision he didn’t see Penny anyway. He doesn’t really know what was supposed to happen after Charlie dies.
Saving a man’s life was a sacrifice for Desmond since he Thought it might benefit him.
PLEASE HELP explain this to me!
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 20, 2007 @ 6:24 am
The only thing I have is that the death of a character is release from the island. You cannot get off the island except through death.
The problem that many people have with this is that it is predicated on some type of time-loop or some metaphysical aspect to the island.
With these two conditions (death as release, metaphysical island), the person released from the island would have the opportunity to relive his/her life not making the same mistakes that caused them to be on the island in the first place.
That would be the only reason that I can see that a death would be good. Preventing someone from dying, is preventing them from making their life better off the island.
Pure conjecture, obviously.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 20, 2007 @ 9:42 am
Thank you, Tabula Rasa-
I think that is a possibility but very convoluted. But it is true that the ONLY way to leave the island is to die.
But it would be a big risk to think that letting someone die is “good” for them. That would be very wierd.
I think that Juliette, among her other experiments, may be experimenting with bringing the dead back to life. But I still think that it is more of a sacrifice for Desmond to keep saving Charlie.
If dying were a good thing that allowed Desmond off to start again, then he would be constantly committing suicide.
i agree though that there is some kind of time travel going on, and i also notice that the only way to get on the island is to WAKE UP on the island. Sleeping and waking may be a way to travel in time too.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 20, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
In respond to your issues about Desmond understanding any of this, he doesn’t. That’s why it comes back to faith.
The story of Abraham and Isaac is important, because Abe went all the way to lifting up the knife to sacrifice Isaac. It is a ridiculous and crule request of God to ask you to sacrifice your own son. It is an action that if followed through with would require trust in God.
In this case is was a confirmation to Abraham of the trust God placed in him. And that God had another sacrifice ready for Abraham.
I am not saying anything the episode didn’t allude to or say outright.
Desmond’s weakness in this scenario is his lack of faith. He has to trust that there is a “plan” or “destiny” for Charlie. But, Desmond keeps thwarting that destiny because he doesn’t have faith that there is another path that Charlie can only follow by leaving the island through death.
If Desmond knew that death would allow Charlie to go back and correct his mistakes, the Desmond wouldn’t need any faith. There would be no test for him.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 20, 2007 @ 6:26 pm