Juliet and her signs! Bad Girl! (Spoilers)
So if your spoiled, or you’ve seen tonight’s episode, this is one for you. Just something to think about as you reel from the shocking conclusion. Definitely a spoiler in a big way, so move on through the link to continue the conversation.
So, did I not say on the 5th that Juliet was dirty? And I wasn’t talking about the mud! She’s dirty! Double crossing! What’s worse is that she redeemed herself to us tonight, just to stab us in the heart! Okay, well all that aside this recalls the whole ‘Well Juliet tried to kill Ben!’ defense all you Juliet lovers like to throw in our faces. I have a theory that explains that.
The whole secret deal to kill Ben was a rouse. We already suspect there is some psychic ability element to the others. That whole flash card show was done for one purpose. To prove whether or not they could trust Jack to perform the surgery. She wasn’t trying to get ben killed, she was making sure he’d be safe. In order to do that, they needed to make Jack think there was murder plot.
Later, when the ‘investigation’ took place, the rouse took on another shape. Now they needed to know if Jack could be lulled into ‘caring’ about Juliet. If he cared about her, he would protect her, he wold be come her in on the beach. And all they really needed to convince him was a funny little owie on her back.
Juliet… you are a swine!
Sorry that you feel so much pain about Juliet Doc, I think she’s hot! She’s like “forbidden” fruit … very smart, talented, and pretty, plus her superhero-like skills.
Namaste - RichPundit
Comment by RichPundit — April 11, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Dude… there is no question she is smokin.
Comment by docarzt — April 11, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
My take - either Jack is in bed with the others, or Juliet and Jack are plotting to take down the others. Jack is definately in on it, and I think there is a strong possibility he and Juliet are together behind Ben’s back.
Comment by Conspiracy — April 11, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
Okay so we found out Juliet is double crossing the Losties. My theory is that she will in the end choose the Losties. After all thats the only thing that can be beat Ben. The only thing people like Ben never suspect is a double cross. They think they are too smart, too in control. The only way the Losties can beat Ben is if Juliet double crosses him. I think whatever she is supposed to do she will start to do but in the end not go through with it, thus foiling Ben’s plan, and thus postponing Ben’s victory. Just my idea though.
Comment by jalocke — April 11, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
You guys are just hoping that she turns on Ben because she is hot. She owes Ben and Jacob everything for curing her sister. Don’t expect this tigress to change her stripes.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 11, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
TabulaRasa is on it! She may want to get off that island more than anyone else, but she wanted her sister cured, a mother, and happy even more.
Comment by SeenMyLuggage? — April 11, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
DAmon, Carlton….I HATE you….you have lied once again!!!!! I can not stand you two. I AM SICK AND TIRED of you two LYING (”Juliet has been banished”) just to not reveal something. I can respect someone saying just watch the show and see, rather than LYING to your viewers who MAKE your show possible. I AM A NIELSON Family, I will no longer view this show on our TV at home. BE MEN OF PRINCIPAL and STOP TRYING TO FOOL your loyal viewers by LYING!!!!!!!!!!!!
I liked this episode. I now think the end game is more clearer than ever before.
F**** YOU PRODUCERS!!!!
Comment by skip — April 11, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
Doc, just so you know, I didn’t like the B**** from day one (Juliet Burke, not Elizabeth Mitchell). I’m DTA regarding any Other. There isn’t s*** TPTB could do to make me sympathetic to an Other. They almost got me to like Jack early in this Season when he was all teeth and spit against the Others, but now that he’s “She’s under my protection” I’m back to “Who the f*** does Jack think he is?” Jack: “Trust me”…in L.A. that’s how you say “F*** You.”
I never have and never will trust her. When she was spitting game back in Sayid and Sawyer’s face I was like “Don’t take that from her. Stop boo hooing over what you did before you got on the Island and get medevil on this bitch.” Yet, I knew it wouldn’t happen because Claire’s life was in danger and all, but man I hope those two team up again.
Because this is what I really love, I know the come-uppance is coming and when it gets here, my only concern, is will it do justice? Oh, Ben…Juliet….Jacob!?…when you guys go down, it’s going to be historic.
Comment by Merlboroman — April 11, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
skip you are crazy… as for Darlton & Company, great episode guys!
Comment by tanside — April 11, 2007 @ 8:42 pm
Skip, just because Juliet’s in on this plan with Ben does not mean she wasn’t banished. Perhaps the banishment was a rouse, but she will choose to be one of the 815ers (this may be her only way out). This would eventually make the banishment for real…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 11, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
Ok, you really aren’t catching on are you! Here it goes. Remeber the first episode when we first saw Juliet? She already looked discrunteled then. Also this is to obvious even for Lost. The little catch there at the end of the episode was to make you believe she was a plant. Remember her entire 3 years on the island she was decieved into staying there by Ben! The writers want you to believe her loyalties are still with the others that way whwn she betrays Ben its more of a “suprise!”
I know this is a rant sorry!
Comment by delirium — April 11, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
delirium -
Hold on a minute, Ben cures her sister, and these losties have murdered two people that were important to her: Ethan (a colleague) and Goodwin (a lover). A surprise also has to make sense. It has to be something that you would say there was evidence for. Her turning on Ben doesn’t make sense.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 11, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
It makes no sense to be loyal to Ben anymore, and Juliet knows that. Ben’s powerless. She needed to escape from Ben, and shes using the 815ers as bodyguards.
Comment by brennan — April 11, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
At the beginning of the episode, Sayid said, “Tell me who you are” and the show takes us to her and her sister. Getting back to her sister is ‘who Juliette is’. And she’ll do whatever it takes to get back there, which Jack all but said near the end. If Ben can do that, great. If the Losties can present a way off, then Juliette’s with them. I think it’s really that simple. And it may have become that simple for Jack, too….
Comment by SalTheDoor — April 11, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
Do you really believe Juliet’s sister relapsed? What if the relapse was a lie so egghead bigeye man could use the cure as incentive for her to stay?
Comment by Ruthiblu — April 11, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
Sorry for the doublepost but I had one more thought. If you were Jack wouldnt you move all the losties to the now abandoned “other” town so they can have running water and real beds?
Oh wait, this is LOST where nobody makes the obvious moves.
Comment by Ruthiblu — April 11, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
You spelled ruse wrong. Its RUSE, not rouse.
Comment by circe — April 11, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
I thought it was obvious: Juliet will do whatever she needs to to get off the island. I’m sure Ben told her that if you do this, I’ll let you go.
And we don’t know if Ben cured her cancer. Just because he doesn’t like to be called a liar doesn’t mean he isn’t one.
Comment by autochthonous — April 11, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
I never trusted Juliet. Not from day one. Watching this episode, I alternated between waiting for the other shoe to drop, and wanting to smack that smarmy little sideways grin off her face every time there was was a closeup.
Whats really starting to burn me is the completely unrealistic lack of explanations for EVEN ONE of the mysteries that have been present since episode one, even though there have been AMPLE opportunities to get at least one answer from any of the others, which hasn’t happened.
Sorry guys, but if I was just snatched by these Others, then rescued, then forced to walk for a day and night back to the Losties camp with Juliet, I’d have some goddamn answers, and I’d have em’ fast.
I mean, is it really that hard to stop walking for a minute and insist that she tell them exactly wtf the Others’ agenda is? I’m not even talking about using torture or excessive force, I’d just say “You tell us what you know about Dharma, or the smoke monster. Or you tell us why you kidnapped Walt and the kids. Or you tell us what you know about the ancient 4 toed statue. Or you tell us what these numbers mean, right now, or we knock you the f–k out with a sleeperhold, and leave you right here. No more cryptic bullshit.”
Try and tell me thats not what you’d do and I’ll laugh at you.
Comment by Jimmy Zer0 — April 12, 2007 @ 1:41 am
And I absolutely feel you on that above post, Ruthiblu.
“Ok so we know for a fact that the Other’s peaced out on Otherton and went somewhere else. Instead of taking our gear, guns, and people up to their old houses, let’s just stay out here on the even more exposed beach and wait for them to pull up in a boat one night and merc us all, since we have absolutely no desire to interrogate Juliet about their intentions.”
pffft.
Comment by Jimmyzer00 — April 12, 2007 @ 1:45 am
Yet another mystery, I find I have forgotten half the ones I come across on the threads sometimes, there are so many unanswered questions. I think the writers have wandered off the beaten track. Very sad, I miss the old lost, the one where you could see there was a mystery and you would be the one that figured it out.
They just seem to like proving people wrong over and over, and I despise them for it.
It’s not even purely about the enjoyment anymore (which used to be Lost’s greatest asset), I almost reluctantly tune in nowadays to see what kind of crap they have thrown in this week.
My favourite episode recently was the one where they found the van. It was uncomplicated, it was funny, it didnt make my brain hurt, and it didnt provide an endless list of new questions. Thats the lost I miss, it was light hearted, genuine entertainment.
I cant stress enough how the overkill has totally gutted me, I used to be a lost fanatic, I got just about everyone I know watching it, I had so much enthusiasm. Now I am one of the few people I know that still bother to watch it, and I could kick myself for it, I guess I still have a little piece of faith that somehow it will redeem itself and give me the answers we have spent many a dedicated hour looking out for.
Comment by kellybee — April 12, 2007 @ 4:37 am
Whoa skip. Easy boy! You’d be a hell of a lot more pissed if they told us everything that happened three weeks ahead of time and never gave us any surprises.
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 4:39 am
You hit the nail on the head Jimmy ZerO, there is NOT ONE SHRED of logicality or common sense to the way the survivors acts on this show. On rare occasions they ask an Other a question; the Other refuses or gives some cryptic answer that tells nothing; and they go “OK” or a “protector” refuses to let them answer, and they just go on tramping through the jungle like nothing ever happened.
And when they get to the beach they say NOTHING to the rest about what they have been through or seen.
And when they get to the beach they say NOTHING about the perfectly adequate housing and conditions they just left.
It would be interesting to see what happened after Locke saw his father bound/gagged, but we will probably never see it, or maybe in some flashback 3-4 seasons from now.
Ben tells Juliet “I’ll see you in a week.” Given they’ve only been on the island for 90 days, that could be in season 7 based on how fast time moves on this show. And by then we still will not know ONE THING about what and why things are the way they are on this island.
Comment by wocowboy — April 12, 2007 @ 4:53 am
I’ve akways wondered why Jack NEVER asks the easy questions. Could it possibly be that he already knows the answers. Even in the last episode, the producers made his lack of curiosity intentional. At the very least, it was addressed in some way.
Comment by TabulaRasa — April 12, 2007 @ 5:09 am
Doc, READ MY POST….
I said “….I can respect someone saying just watch the show and see, rather than LYING”
I don’t want to some intentional LIE to make a suprise later.
I just want Darlton to shut the fuck up and if they can’t tell the truth of what the viewers know NOW, then just say….’watch the show.’
I am SOOOOO sick and tired of the lies, misinformation, propaganda just to make a suprise out of the show.
And Yes Jimmy Zer0 I agree, these people have no intelligence at all!
Comment by skip — April 12, 2007 @ 5:55 am
Juliet only has one motive. Getting off the island. That makes her a very dangerous person. I do not believe she has any loyalties to anyone. Rather she takes any opportunity to fulfill that motive.
Comment by Fuller — April 12, 2007 @ 6:00 am
OMG, FINALLY I have some support here from viewers!!!!!
Jimmy Zer0, TabulaRasa,wocowboy,ruthiblu, kellybee
I have been saying these things from DAY 1. These characters on this show are COMPLETE IDIOTS that have absolute NO common sense!
I said 2 weeks ago, if Jack goes back to camp and says nothing, it just proves the writers of this show take us viewers as stupid as the Jim Jones cult followers. “….Come on give us some Koolaid and we will blindly follow your RUSE.”
I will say it again and keep saying it, I NO LONGER WATCH this show for the character developement. I have no vested interest in the morans the writers have ignorantly created. I watch this show to know the final end game mystery.
Yes, Juliet is hot…..but to care if she is two timing wench means NOTHING to me.
WHEN THESE KOOLAID mixers called writers of this show can write some common sense into ANY of these characters, I will care again. So from now on, I tape or watch on the web to send the message I am not one of the 12 million who tune in live.
Comment by thirdflr — April 12, 2007 @ 6:10 am
Random Thoughts:
The fact that Anna Lucia did kill her lover does give Juliet a reason to infiltrate the 815ers.
I knew as soon as Claire got sick last night that it was a little too convenient that it happened exactly when Juliet showed up.
JimmyZero, I could not agree more. How hard is it to say “hey, by the way, what exactly is going on here”.
I think this episode finally put to bed the theory that Jacob is either Jack or Locke since he can apparently go to the main land and cure someone.
Also: Juliet in bed was hot!
Comment by thefallguy1 — April 12, 2007 @ 6:22 am
Jimmy Zer0, Tabula, Thirdflr, and anyone who shares the belief that the characters on this show are frustrating morons, I can’t say that I completely disagree with you, but let me try and suspend your disbelief. The big “moron” here is Jack. Tabula makes a great point with noting that he may know more than he lets on. We know Juliet is a hot blonde (just like Sara) who bats her eyes at him and tries to help him every chance she gets. I (as a man) can understand how women could make us complete morons. Now Sayid with his great instincts and Sawyer who has been captured and almost killed by her people do not share Jack’s idiocy. The only reason she escapes them (and she knows by the look in her eyes that it was by the skin of her teeth) is the well being of Claire. The 815ers would look to Sayid and Sawyer to get these answers in ways they would not dare. To sum it up, Jack may be torn (thinking the others are his way off), know more than we think he does, or just have a Juliet brought on case of pryapism. This is how my disbelief remains suspended…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 12, 2007 @ 6:29 am
I thought last nights episode was amazing! I’m shocked that so many people are ripping the producers for that one. I thought this episode was probably the most revealing one of the whole season. I also see a lot of people giving Jack a hard time because he didn’t interrogate Juliet. I specifically remember him saying that she would have to give answers eventually. Also, Jack has never been the type to interrogate someone or force an answer out. He knows Kate did something so bad that she was escorted by a federal marshall on the flight but you didn’t see him trying to interrogate her into telling him what she did. He just let it go. Also, he was against Sayid and Locke torturing “Henry Gale” into telling them who he was. I just don’t think he’s the type to force an answer out.
Comment by Shiloh — April 12, 2007 @ 7:01 am
I dont so much think the characters are morons. The writers treat the fans like morons. They have added so many twists, its not fun anymore. Its just an over-complicated money tree that gets on people’s nerves, and keeps them watching based on the fact they spent too much time dedicated to the show to just let it go. Deep down I am sure the producers are aware of that, hopefully season 4 will give us the answers (lets face it, thats all people want) and then maybe close the book.
If I had a penny for every time I’ve heard someone say “I hope they dont ruin Heroes like they ruined Lost”…………
Comment by kellybee — April 12, 2007 @ 7:11 am
the biggest reveal of Juliet’s real motivations was when Alpert asked her why she signed up to go. He was on to something. She is a Plant. She was sent by another organization as a set-up to infiltrate the Others Island- Remember, she herself has a mysterious background of being able to impregnate STERILE women. That was very odd of her to try to impregnate her sterile sister with her experiments.
Juliet seems to have a split personality- almost two different people. Cold and calculating with smooth hair, and then a sister-loving disheveled one. Very strange. I think that she is a plant, a spy, from the beginning. That she was planted to go infiltrate the Others, that she WANTED to get to the island all along. She may be working with another group as a spy on the Others, so that she will ultimately double-cross both the Losties and the Others.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 12, 2007 @ 7:43 am
Anyone else notice a small timeline discrepency last night? Juliet shows up at the Mittleose (or however you spell it) compound in 2001. She gets into a Chevrolet vans that is obviously a ‘06 or ‘07. I’m a little let down that it slipped through the cracks.
Comment by thefallguy1 — April 12, 2007 @ 7:52 am
I thought last night episode was amazing! There is no way Juliet is double crossing Ben,she knows way too much about what is going on and the others. and Ben would not let her just go to them like that. He is too smart for that. And Juliet knows the only hope she ever has of leaving that island, is through Ben, Jacob and the Others.
Did anyone notice when Ben put the headphones on to show Juliet her sister back home, that he said “Hello Rich…” What is that guys deal anyway, and what is his role in the grand scheme of things?….
Comment by themachine — April 12, 2007 @ 7:54 am
More about Juliet being a plant on the island to infiltrate the Others (perhaps by a remnant of Dharma): First, where would she have learned to fight like that?
Second, that cool, icy steel, sexy woman in bed did NOT look sorry to be on that island.
She only plays that ‘oh please let me seee my sister’ rotine around ben to make him think she is there aginst her will.
The biggest clue is of course WHY she would go, as I mentioned above. She went because she secretly works for an organization that experiments with creepy stuff like creating life and the island has answers for her that she and her organization wants.
The question is how she would know things about sawyer and sayyid that even patchy wouldn’t be able to find out. How would patchy have found out the NAME of the person Sayyid tortured?? How would she know that? How would she know
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 12, 2007 @ 8:06 am
Jack should realize, and maybe he does, that if she really wanted to get off that island as much as she says she does, that she would still be working for Ben to get that chance. He is either stupid or very stupid to think that she would join them because she wnats to leave. That makes no sense at all.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 12, 2007 @ 8:14 am
This season according to the producers was going to be all about the others. How can a whole season about the others give us so little information about them. What we do now know about them could have been covered in 3 episodes easily. I have been such a big fan since day one but I really hate the fact that we are nearly at the season’s end and I’ve only really enjoyed 5 or 6 episodes at most.
And as for Jack being a moron - when Juliet told Jack that Claire is the only person to have a baby on the island without dying, did he not remember that Danielle had her baby on the island?
And what about when Sawyer & Kate were with Karl? They didn’t even try (from memory) to find out anything more about the others. But now Sawyer wants answers from Juliet?
And if I could request 1 thing from the producers it would be this: Don’t put a scene in the finale or the first episode next season that doesn’t really get touched on again till right at the end of the season (e.g. Walts abduction, Penny Widmore discovering the island’s location). It’s too drawn out for my liking and seems to be a bit of a cheap trick.
Comment by Jon — April 12, 2007 @ 8:14 am
I just rewatched season 1 to see if I could get some insight. I picked up on one very important thing!!!
Shannon had a sweet ass!
Comment by Super — April 12, 2007 @ 8:21 am
Juliet knew that much detail about Sayid and Sawyer because she must know from before she got on that island who would be on that plane, because who were on that plane was not an accident. She must have known that plane would crash with those people on it, and that there would be many CHILDREN on the plane, because they need children for the children’s special powers on the island (like Walt) and experiments. (The only child that had a parent still living was Walt, which gave them alot of trouble) There must be much more to Juliet than we realize.
Comment by HawaiiHeaven — April 12, 2007 @ 8:24 am
I have faith in Jack. He’s smart and he knows not to put much faith in hot chicks. His marriage fell apart, bai ling’s brother beat the crap out of him, and Kate broke his heart, he’s not gonna be a sucker for Juliet, he’s just waiting for the right moment to foil the plan. Remember, he’s a man of science.
Comment by Super — April 12, 2007 @ 8:32 am
I’m still down with Lost, I really enjoyed last nights episode. I would have enjoyed it a lot more, however, If instead of dumping still more mysteries in our laps, they threw us even one tiny little scrap of bone. That’s all.
It’s just getting a little tiresome that these people aren’t acting the way that people who have been stuck on a crazy hell island under siege would logically act.
Comment by Jimmy Zer0 — April 12, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Everyone just WHINES and WHINES about the twists on the show. We knew from the get-go that Lost is a thinking man’s show. There would be no casual and mindless watching. There were layers of meaning on top of layers of meaning. The complicated mystery is what makes this show fantastic. For everyone who bothers to post about how they “want answers” and complains about “new twists” I say, “give me a break”. If the plot and endgame of this series was SO obvious that you were right on the money with predictions week after week, you’d surely have tired of Lost by now. You’d also be complaining about how lame and obvious the answers you received were. If all the mysteries were answered, there would be no show. I, for one, want the producers to set down a date this will all end, but for now I’m content to sit back, enjoy the ride, and wiki any clues I can possibly find. If this show doesn’t float your boat, move on to something less complicated and stop posting about how Lost has lost you as a viewer. Lost wasn’t for you from the first.
Comment by PenelopeWidmore — April 12, 2007 @ 8:36 am
Amazing episode. Can’t wait for next week. A+++ Lost Crew.
Comment by thedanceman — April 12, 2007 @ 8:49 am
Juliet will do ANYTHING to get off the island. Including killing Ben (failed) & Pickett (succeeded). I don’t think she is aligned with anyone but herself. I think Ben also promised her another chance off the island.
Comment by RazzleDazzle — April 12, 2007 @ 9:00 am
Ms Widmore,
For the record, I have NEVER whined about the twists, mystery or for answers.
I do not mind the ‘layers upon layers of meaning’.
I am SCREAMING though over the fact the KoolAid writers of this show make these characters KoolAid Drinkers.
85+ days on this island and not a single person acts like you and I would if we were on that island.
If you can honestly say if it was you on this island Ms Widmore in this situation, that you would act like they do…then give me your bank’s routing number, I will wire every dime I have to you!
First meetin in the jungle with TOM, I would have said “Screw your House, screw your rooms, screw your food, give me the keys and I will leave your F*&%in island”
Seems Sayid is the only one with an ounce of sense and that is not saying alot!
Jimmy Zer0 and I may disagree on ALOT of things here but I think we can both agree we would not be KoolAid drinkers!!!
Comment by thirdflr — April 12, 2007 @ 9:02 am
“Lost wasn’t for you from the first”
I see this as a marginally ignorant a statement, see the first season, and part of season 2 was a great great experience, there was mystery, but it wasnt mind bogglingly over complicated. There is no “Whining”, merely a matter of opinion. If it had been THIS complicated from episode one, I wouldnt have said I enjoyed it to begin with.
“We knew from the get-go that Lost is a thinking man’s show”
Yea, but then again so is Who wants to be a millionaire. You still get answers though, they dont ask a load of questions and then tell you how much you won 3 years later.
Accept the fact that yours is not the only opinion out there !!! Listen to yourself “WHINING” about someone elses opinion, dude.
I havent knocked anyone else for being more interested in Lost then I am, if you still enjoy it, good for you. If you want to whine at those that have lost the faith, maybe you are just a very analytical individual and should rethink your motives for targeting us “Whiners”.
Comment by Kellybee — April 12, 2007 @ 9:05 am
I also think this episode revealed a big mystery-possibly why the Other’s are on the Island.
All of the Other’s have suffered some sort of terminal illness (like cancer) but being on the Island due to whatever force cures them. This is why Ben was so shocked when his cancer came back.
However in true yin and yang fashion the balance to this miraculous cure is that women cannot have children. These people would not want to leave the island, they would want to keep it’s existence a secret and they would want to raise families there. This is why the took the kids and why Juliette is on the island.
Again they don’t want the world to find out because then their precious island would be a circus. They killed everyone in the Dharma project and have every intention of keeping the Losties on the beach.
Comment by Josh — April 12, 2007 @ 9:14 am
I was under the impression that I didn’t point any single person’s posts out. Why act like what I posted was a personal attack?
Regardless.
thirdflr: I actually agree with your assessment and my comments weren’t even remotely directed at you. It irritates me that the characters don’t ask more questions. I get annoyed as much as the next person. I agree with all you said.
I forget who brought up the losties moving to Othersville. As to that, I’d say that the losties probably have the same reasons some didn’t want to live by the caves. Remember the argument in season 1? Do we live near fresh water and natural shelter (caves) or do we stay on the beach and hope that if there is anyone looking for us, they’ll see us on the beach. I’d say that’s why no one was moving up to Othersville and kicking up their feet watching cable.
Kellybee: What I see as an “ignorant statement” is the fact that you chose to read what you wanted to read into my statements and became defensive all on your lonesome.
“We knew from the get-go that Lost is a thinking man’s show”
“Yea, but then again so is Who wants to be a millionaire. You still get answers though, they dont ask a load of questions and then tell you how much you won 3 years later.”
Wow. You just compared Lost to Who wants to be a Millionaire. I won’t even go into all the reasons that comparing a gameshow to a television mystery series is wrong. Just…wow.
“Accept the fact that yours is not the only opinion out there !!! Listen to yourself “WHINING” about someone elses opinion, dude.”
Actually, I’m not “whining” about someone else’s opinion. I was specifically targeting the people who take the time out of their lives to come on the boards to post about how they are done with Lost and/or hate it. If you don’t want to watch why come on and whine about how the show has lost you as a viewer? And by “you” I don’t mean YOU, Kellybee. Wouldn’t want you to take it personally again.
I appreciate the substantive criticism of the show as much as the next viewer. Complain away about how an episode sucked or how stupid the losties are for trusting an Other. I’m right there with you. But something that adds absolutely nothing to the dialogue such as posting “I want more answers” for the 4816th time or stating that you aren’t going to watch anymore really is not going to get anyone anywhere (again, KellyBee…this isn’t all aimed at you. No taking it personally this time.) =)
Posted by: Kellybee
Comment by Penelope Widmore — April 12, 2007 @ 9:33 am
On the topic of why the Losties don’t ask questions, I am wondering for weeks now why none of them said, “Gee, I wonder how Vincent the dog got back?” Hello? Anyone else pick up on that?
Comment by Annu — April 12, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Juliet said last night that “We took Claire off the island to have her baby” and i think she said the same for rosseau but i could be mistaken on that last part…
Comment by themachine — April 12, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Remember people…This show is FICTION!!!!
Don’t kill yourselves over every detail, just enjoy it.
Will somebody please agree that Shannon has a sweet ass?? Please, somebody…anyone
PS- I miss Nikki
Comment by Super — April 12, 2007 @ 11:23 am
Comment by kellybee — April 12, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Hey, all points of view are welcome here as long as you conduct yourselves with some respect. I don’t think we’ve crossed that line yet. However, I do have to put my foot down and say this is a LOST ‘FAN’ Site. Not former-fan. Disgruntled fan is okay. But if you don’t like the show anymore, you’re talking fish at a duck convention.
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Thank you Doc…..this site does a service for my anger management! Kinda like the Hannity Hotline for the liberals.
Super…. I agree. ok?
Doc, I gotta ask….do you do this for a living?
I am no KoolAid drinker!
Comment by thirdflr — April 12, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
I do want to add some dissent to the stupid-character theories though. If you’ve read any Robert McKee, or practically any good book on the craft of cinema, you know that characters do not act like ordinary people. If they did, only ordinary things would happen.
The character’s duty is to come into the scene and walk out having shifted the story in some interesting direction. This is far too clinical of a way to look at it, I know. Good dialogs, nice photography, all those bits of nuance count for sure, but in the end of the day it all comes down to do the writers want the character to come out of the scene with knowledge, or with clues and conflicts that will be of importance to keeping the viewer ‘turning pages’ - to throw in a literary reference. The bottom line is it doesn’t serve the story for them to know the final answer, nor to state the obvious.
The infamous ‘this is our island’ scene for instance. From the perspective of real people we shake our fists and say “Fine keep your damn island, let us to f*ck off!”
As a writer how do you make that end up where they had it finish in the show? With the characters walking away knowing that a line in the sand had been drawn? You could waste your time with expository dialogue:
Jack: Look, we don’t want to be here. So why don’t you let us leave?
Zeke: Ha. After all we’ve done to you, do you think we’d let you leave now?
Jack: Well why don’t you just tell us what you want. Right now. Lay it out. Make us understand why you have kidnapped us, murdered us…
Zeke: You’ve got us all wrong Jack. We’re good people. Sometimes, when good people act for the greater good, they get misinterpreted. We’re the good guys Jack, trust me. But cross this line, and you’ll force us to become something else….
Jack: You talk about the greater good? What is this, some government installation? Is there a plague here, are you experimenting on us? Greater Good. That’s a pretty broad term there buddy…
Zeke: Okay, enough talk there Mr. Real man. I’m laying down the law right now. This is the line, and if you cross it you die. Now get outta here so we can get onto the next scene.
Personally, I feel for the writers because they have this challenge of ‘how do we cut off the characters from asking the big questions without blowing suspension of disbelief.’ It’s not a weekly task I would envy, none-the-less it is the way they are going to tell the story.
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
haha well said, Doc! If we can suspend disbelief long enough to believe there is a smoke monster capable of killing people, as well as homicidal polar bears running around a tropical island, I think we can safely accept that sometimes the way we would act in a situation won’t always be reflected by a character’s actions.
Comment by PenelopeWidmore — April 12, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
Kellybee: You keep using the word “we”.
“…we still watch lost. We have spent many a dedicated hour glued to our screens, we are simply not as intrigued by it all as we were previously. We were all talking about what we feel about the episode we just watched.”
I told you I specifically was speaking to the whiners who say they will no longer watch Lost. If you’re still watching the show then you’re not part of the group I’m discussing. I don’t understand what you’re taking issue with? I wasn’t describing you; I said that I don’t have a problem with critical viewers or even viewers who just want to vent (i.e. “after last night’s episode I’d love to bury Juliet next to Ethan”). My only issue is with the haters who no longer watch and yet like to pollute the FAN sites with whining about why they no longer watch. If you consider yourself a whiner….well bully for you. I’m speaking with regard to a special brand of whiner.
Comment by PenelopeWidmore — April 12, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
Here is my general opinion of the show I posted on Sledgeweb…
Episode was overhyped, disjointed, and generally dissapointing
Overhyped
The big reveal should have been Juliet giving up at least SOME info (even if it was lies) to Sayid and Sawyer who had her cornered WITH GUNS and let her go. Instead what do they do? They allow her to just walk away because she knows a secret about them, big whup. Like the rest of the Losties don’t know that Sawyer is a bad guy, and that Sayid has tortured someone? Hell, he tortured Sawyer right there in their camp, its a KNOWN FACT.
Disjointed
Juliet’s sister has cancer, she doesn’t have cancer, which is it? Juliet beleives Ben or she doesn’t, which is it? This show tries to ‘outmystery’ itself. Instead of just giving a few answers or let a character for once be even a bit transparent (as we all are as humans), every character has to have 3 sides to their personality and the viewer is left to try to figure out which side- for EVERY circumstance! This show is tiring to watch at times.
Jack over rules everyone- again. Even in the most silly of circumstances, the beachies allow Jack to force them to accept someone who has been part of kidnapping, killing, and in general terrorizing them for 3 months. So much B.S. And you know if would NEVER happen in real life. People would be up in arms- screaming, rebelling, and yes, even kicking Juliet’s ass as payback.
An “implant” in Claire? Please, give me a break. I thought this was craphole island in the middle of the Pacific with no resources. Now we get implants put in someone like they are at the Mayo clinic for an exam? Man, those Others are really resourceful, aren’t they? Next week we see Gilligan and the Professor make a short wave radio out of a coconut and they get rescued! Yippee!
Dissapointing
The big reveal- Juliet is plotting with Ben…oh my! Never saw that coming! So, so dissapointing.
The Others can’t concieve. Wow, another big mystery solved. We all knew that already. We still don’t know why/how.
The only really good part was Mikhail ‘at the controls’ of the satellite feeds. Pretty interesting that they were monitoring the crash all along. I wasn’t convinced that the video of Juliet’s sister was real or not. Final thoughts- the episode was poorly written and conceived. It could have been much better if the characters were really allowed to behave logically… (something that the 1st season lacked as well- there’s a monster in the jungle that kills people? Ok, lets go run in the jungle!).
Comment by T — April 12, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
T - I hear ya on the snap judgment side of things, but I enjoy the additional questions as a personal taste. For instance, the implant. To me this is another indication that the others have future awareness such as Desmond, but maybe on 11. The fact that she spouted the facts in Sayid and Sawyer’s faces worked for me. Ultimately, overtime these mean would have no choice but to understand that the point was they were hypocrites and their actions weren’t serving the common good. The fact that they had the reaction sooner is just a necessity of the story-telling. We aren’t doing domestic drama where three weeks from now Sayid finally decides to kick the prozac and confront his problems by facing life head on. The other cool thing about the scene though, seriously, is that it reminds us that we are only seeing half of the story. Yes, the others have technology which they gather information with, (which they obviously acquired from the Dharma people), but that is not the end of the story. Those personal details were acquired by a different means. We see that ability existing on two sides of the game. The others possess it, even though we haven’t seen it demonstrated yet, and Smokey has it. We also know the others don’t care for Smokey hence the fence.
None of this is meant to address any of your criticisms par se, but just as I see you have some valid complaints, you must surely see that there are interesting points to the road they are on. Of course, if you don’t , that’s your right.
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
Doc,
I agree with you that the scene had power. I’m not complaining that Juliette didn’t have every right (and did she ever use it!) to try and stop Sayid and Sawyer’s questions. I also agree that Sayid and Sawyer should have been shocked that she knew it- but a cooler scene would have had Sawyer and Sayid saying “How the hell did you know that information? Where did you get that intel on us”? Then try to get some quality info out of her. Instead they just stare blankly. It’s unrealistic.
I’m not asking Juliette to spill the beans and tell the whole mystery right there and end the show- she could have lied for instance. But the scene, in trying to be cheeky or multi-layered or whatever Damon Lindeloff wants to call it (you can even tell in his Podcasts that the guy is such a freakin’ nerd that he can’t even answer one question with a simple answer), that a real person would just not behave that way. So while yes I can suspend reality in order to believe in the Smoke Monster (because that does require a TRUE suspension of reality- I’ve never seen one)- I can do that for the sake of the mystery of the show…but I can’t suspend reality to believe that people are going to behave in odd ways that don’t reflect reality.
Comment by T — April 12, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
With this show, I can suspend my disbelief for just about everything. BUT…I wanted to scream when Said and Sawyer backed down after Juliet gave her “Who made you two the moral police of the camp” speech. I was just HOPING that Sawyer would blast her with a good, “You people have hung a man for trying to protect a pregnant woman. KIDNAPPED a pregnant woman. Shot us. Burned our raft. Kidnapped children under cover of night. Manipulated one of our own into killing two of our people. Kept us in cages. Forced us into slave labor. MADE ME EAT FISH BISCUITS! And generally just terrorized us at every turn. You really think a little thing like me shooting the wrong guy while searching for the man responsible for my parents death compares at all?”
Comment by PenelopeWidmoreq — April 12, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
With this show, I can suspend my disbelief for just about everything. BUT…I wanted to scream when Said and Sawyer backed down after Juliet gave her “Who made you two the moral police of the camp” speech. I was just HOPING that Sawyer would blast her with a good, “You people have hung a man for trying to protect a pregnant woman. KIDNAPPED a pregnant woman. Shot us. Burned our raft. Kidnapped children under cover of night. Manipulated one of our own into killing two of our people. Kept us in cages. Forced us into slave labor. MADE ME EAT FISH BISCUITS! And generally just terrorized us at every turn. You really think a little thing like me shooting the wrong guy while searching for the man responsible for my parents death compares at all?”
Thank You! (I’m not crazy after all).
Comment by T — April 12, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
“Thank You! (I’m not crazy after all).”
haha, no you’re not crazy T. But for all those “why the hell don’t they __________”(fill in the blank) moments, I think it’s still one of the best shows on television and one of the most creative. I actually really liked last nights episode and I think it’s only going to get better from now until the end of the season. Keep the faith!
Comment by PenelopeWidmore — April 12, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
@PenelopeWidmore
“I I actually really liked last nights episode and I think it’s only going to get better from now until the end of the season.”
Yes, and then they will end with some monstrous cliff-hanger like they’ve done with every season so far, and then at the onset of next season, we’ll have to waste 10 episodes trudging through backstory just to get to a single clue as to what’s going on.
I love Lost, still. But I too, like many many many people out there, are getting a bit sick of the touch and go game, where they feed us a little bit of info, then run as far away from it as possible.
I know a lot of people who used to be avid fans who are slowly going the way of the buffalo with this one…Personally, I have faith that the show will turn around, but this season has been a let-down in a couple of ways. Content-wise, I was a bit disappointed with the majority of the first few shows. And aside from the content itself, if the producers pull another bullshit stunt like they did this season with the whole splitting up the episodes, I’m going to really start falling by the wayside. I’m all for the suspense, but stop stringing people.
Comment by dylan — April 12, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Okay, we’ve gotten WAY off topic and I agree that it needs to be corrected.
Not only are we not talking about it enough HERE, but we’re not talking about it enough in general. The fault for this lies with all of us.
Doc, you’ve especially responsible. You’ve posted about 8 new articles in the last day or so… and they’re all missing the point of this show!!!!
Shannon had AN INCREDIBLE ass!!!
(Much love Sugar.)
Comment by evangelical poet — April 12, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
Yeah, your complaints are perfectly reasonable T. All the more reason I wouldn’t want to be on that writing team. They do have a daunting task trying to give people what they need to suspend disbelief at sooooo many levels. I guess, personally, I watch with a balanced perspective and while I am perturbed by a lot of the same things you and everyone else is, the ‘Holy f*ck this is cool’ side is still fuller for me than the “Sheesh, this is retarded” side. Other people have said this better than me, but the ‘illusion’ of perfection from season one is gone because it has moved from this renegade “we don’t need no stinking” answers setup to actually trying to tell its story, and it has been an awkward transition at best. There’s still nothing else on television that I’d rather watch in its place though…
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Evangelical: As soon as timeline a merges with timeline b and Charlie dies, all of these off-topic posts will become on-topic. Like magic.
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Hahahahaha Awesome, does that mean every single screen cap will morph into a pic of Shannon or Kate’s bootay????
P.S. A friend sent me a pic yesterday of Kate. This is for you SUGAR.
http://usera.imagecave.com/evangelicalpoet/naked_pics_of_friends/lilly2.jpg
Comment by Evangelical poet — April 12, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Doc,
there is a part in last nights episode when jack and juliet are walking alone together. They are discussing how much time the beach crew needs before they warm up to julient and she states …My people kept sayhid handcuffed to a swing set for three days, then I DRAGGED KATE INTO THE JUNGLE AND LIED ABOUT IT….. after this jack gives her a look as if he has just caught her….. you should check it out… I think jack knows that she is bad… and is now just waiting for the right moment to go after her….
Comment by EXPOSED!!!!!!! — April 12, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
Penelope, I guess your diatribe was aimed at me, so let me try to clarify myself a bit.
I love the show. Like the good Doc, I cant imagine a single show that I would rather watch. Ok wait, maybe BSG, but I’m pretty sure that in my heart, they’re still tied for the place of Coolest Thing I’ve Ever Seen on TV.
I totally understand your point about suspending disbelief. I was raised on a hearty diet of science fiction, comics, horror, fantasy, whatever.
To me, what separates the good stuff from the bad are the believability of the characters, and how easily I can slip into their shoes and try to understand their motivations as the plot of any given piece of fiction unfolds and heads toward it’s conclusion. This has nothing to do with the surreality of the story or the events that take place. I use the the characters to guide me, and when a writer doesnt do justice to his/her characters, I become disenfranchised. Quick.
Again this is just me talking here, sharing my personal opinions, not WHINING or whatever it is you said that I was doing.
The confrontation between Sawyer Sayid and Juliet more or less ejected me out of the reality(yes, reality) of the scene. Sure, she called them out, but if I was in either of their positions, using what I’ve learned about these otherwise compelling characters, I would have said “Wait. How do you know that about me? Tell me right now how you know that.” Wouldn’t you do the same?
I’m not just watching this show because of the cool mysteries, Im watching it because I want to see how realistic, relatable characters DEAL with these mysteries. And that wasn’t dealing. That was copping out in the cheapest way.
And maybe the writers will fix it next week by having Sawyer or Sayid get over the shock of what she told them and confront her on that exact issue, along with at least some of the other issues that have prevailed since season one. Or maybe they won’t and we’ll learn nothing from the Other that is now magically living in their midst just because Jack said so.
The thing about moving to Otherton? I said that, and it was partly venting over the the whole Sawyer/Sayid/Juliet thing, and partly because I feel that after 90 days and various Losties already stating that no one was coming to save them, AND the fact that they now have knowledge of these Others and their malevolent agenda; that someone should at least SUGGEST moving there and trying to take back some of what the Others are stealing from them (ie their human rights). The whole cave point is now moot in light of everything thats happened, btw. Sorry
In closing, I say bring on the mysteries, I don’t even care if they’re ever solved. I just want to see the characters wanting answers the way I would and you would if we were in the same positions.
Longest post ever, peace out and big ups to Shannon’s bangin’ booty.
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T-
I totally agree with you. That definitely should have been sawyer’s response- and JACK’s response!! How can Jack accept all of her crap just because he thinks she wants to leave?? Doesn’t Jack realize that they used sawyer and Kate to impregnate Kate??
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