Future Episode Spoilers! Various Catch-22 Screen Grabs
Some very interesting images flashed by in the trailer for catch-22… here are just a few…
This looks to be from "The Brig" it is rumored that in this episode, Locke persuades Sawyer to join him on a trek. The trek will end where Anthony Cooper is being held, and the real Sawyer will finally be revealed to be Locke’s Dad!
Okay everybody … this is the Portuguese version of ‘Catch 22′. Remember the last time we ran into Portuguese folks? I’ll give you a hint. End of season two. Very cold place. Penny Widmore. Hmmm.
Unless Juliet is making some more flashback appearances, it looks like she will be returning to her people at a location that is more heavily fortified than anything we have ever seen.
Welcome to ‘the brig’?
Is this another cable? Or THE cable? Perhaps the moment Carlton and Damon talked about is coming soon. Very soon!
So folks. Give me YOUR impressions on all this extremely exciting stuff!
For the sake of discussion, I’ll post this on this topic too.
Timeline discrepancy.
In “Not In Portland” we found that Juliet had been on the island “3 years, 2 months, and 28 days.” Counting back from that episode, Juliet came to the island on September 5th, 2001.
Now, in “Cost of Living,” Ben told Jack that “2 days” after he found out that he had a tumor on his spine, a spinal surgeon crashed on the island. We know that Flight 815 crashed on the island on September 22nd, 2004. So Ben should have found out about the tumor on September 20th, 2004.
In tonight’s episode, in flashback, Juliet tells Goodwin that “tomorrow will be the third anniversary” of her arriving on the island. That should make that flashback happen on September 4th, 2004. But during the flashback, Juliet receives the x-ray of Ben’s tumor and apparently shows them to Ben. Thereby, in the flashback, Ben would have found out about the tumor, on the 4th (not the 20th).
A few things then:
1) Ben was lying to Jack. Possible, but there would be no reason for such an insignificant lie about when he found out about the tumor.
2) There was a lapse in time between when Juliet found out about the tumor and when she told Ben. Perhaps she waited two weeks before she showed him. But the way the flashback was presented, this does not seem likely. It appears that Juliet showed Ben the xray as soon as she found out on Sept. 4th.
3) A production error. But this would be a HUGE mistake in the timeline, and Lost has paid far too much attention to detail to make such a big mistake.
4) This discrepancy in the timeline gives evidence of the “difference in the progression of time on the island” theory that some have been purporting. Namely, time is moving more quickly in the outside world.
The scene in which Ben shows Juliet video of Rachel and her son would seem to support number (4). They made a big deal of showing the date on the newspaper (September 22nd, 2004) and Ben said something to the effect of “Yes, that is the real date,” which seems to suggest that Juliet was surprised since that date would be in the future to her (Juliet would believe that the day was Sept. 7th).
Anyone else notice this stuff? Perhaps there is a simpler explanation.
Comment by Skoks — April 11, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
in the trailer was that kate making out with someone and if so who?
Comment by ? — April 11, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
it was sawyer
Comment by docarzt — April 11, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
It’s alot more than making out with Sawyer
Comment by Charlie — April 11, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
Actually he told Jules that it was a real time feed, the shock seemed more that she could see her sister and not so much as to the date on the paper
Comment by Nemesise1977 — April 11, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
Good point on the real time feed. I will watch the episode again tomorrow on Abc.com to check it all over. The dates, however, still don’t seem to match up.
Comment by Skoks — April 11, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
I’m really confused about “The Brig”. Everyone keeps saying that it’s a Jack episode, but everything I’ve read about it so far is that it’s about Locke, Sawyer and Locke’s (and Sawyer’s?) dad, Mr. Anthony Cooper.
If it’s a b-story line, it’s a pretty big b-story line.
Comment by autochthonous — April 11, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
the dates i think are in there,there is a little detail where in one scene jules is wearing different clothes when she gets the x-rays,than the ones she was wearing when she shows ben the x rays
Comment by belmont — April 12, 2007 @ 12:15 am
The last time we saw Portuguese people was not in the Season 2 finale. It was in Expose. Paulo is Brazillian, and therefor speaks (and reads) Portuguese.
Comment by Paulo — April 12, 2007 @ 1:44 am
Juliet DID seem surpised by the date on the newspaper. Going from memory, didn’t Locke say something like “yes, that’s todays date, we’re live”.
She may have just been sucked in at the chance to see rachel.
Comment by Tom — April 12, 2007 @ 4:08 am
eh, good point Paulo but… they don’t matter.
Comment by docarzt — April 12, 2007 @ 4:25 am
doc, you had me up until the end there. where are you pulling sept 7 from?
Comment by valenzetti — April 12, 2007 @ 6:04 am
Concerning the “timeline discrepancy”, I could be wrong, but as far as I know, we were not in any way aware of the exact date on the island when Juliet declares that she has been there 3 years etc. etc. This would make it impossible to go back to an exact date, therefore, the dates match up pretty well.
Comment by justin — April 12, 2007 @ 7:16 am
Skoks, I’m chasin ya (I posted a reply to this same question on another post). The big dudes said something to the affect that each episode is roughly 24 hours. They did not say each and every episode is absolutely 24 hours…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 12, 2007 @ 7:39 am
cap10tripps,
I agree that the timeline doesn’t work strictly in a one episode = 24 hours manner. But, there are enough clues in there for a reconstruction of what happened in what episode on what date. More specifically, I’ve been using Lostpedia.com’s timeline at:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline
It seems pretty accurrate, and they’ve worked the date that Juliet arrived on the island (based on when the events of “Not in Portland” took place and her statement concerning how long she’d been on the island) to September 5th, 2001. I got the September 7th, 2004 (what day Juliet would believe the plane crashed) from the fact that (a) she told Goodwin that the next day was her three-year anniversary, (b) appeared to show Ben his x-rays that day, and (c) Ben had previously told Jack that “two days” before the plane crashed, he found out about his tumor. I guess it should be Sept. 6th then, but regardless, if the Timeline is correct, then the dates don’t match up.
It could be much ado about nothing, but it just seems like everything in Lost is in there for a reason. And to have Juliet be so specific about when she arrived on the island makes it seem as though the writers wanted us to count back and figure out when she exactly arrived. Beyond that though, it does seem somewhat trivial for the outside world to be advancing roughly 2 weeks faster than the island time. So it was most probably (a) a production error, (b) a problem with the timeline, of (c) my bad.
Comment by Skoks — April 12, 2007 @ 9:32 am
Skoks, is it possible that naked Juliet discussing the next day being 3 years and clothed Juliet running to tell Ben are actually 2 weeks apart? My computer does not have enough memory (and no dvr), so I can’t check. Also, someone has mentioned a continuity error between the clothes she’s wearing when finding out about the tumor and what she’s wearing when she tells Ben. Maybe these two events are two weeks apart…
Comment by cap10tripps — April 12, 2007 @ 9:45 am
“Now, in ‘Cost of Living,’ Ben told Jack that ‘2 days’ after he found out that he had a tumor on his spine, a spinal surgeon crashed on the island. We know that Flight 815 crashed on the island on September 22nd, 2004. So Ben should have found out about the tumor on September 20th, 2004.”
Actually, if he found out about a spinal surgeon two days after he found out he had a tumor, couldn’t that mean he found out about Jack on September 24th? He didn’t specify that he found out about the spinal surgeon on the actual day of the crash. They started gathering information on everyone who was on the plane the minute the plane crashed, both via Patchy in the communications hatch and via Goodwin and Ethan with the lists.
Or Ben’s lying. Either way.
Comment by PenelopeWidmore — April 12, 2007 @ 9:48 am
cap10tripps,
I agree that one of the possible explanations is that there is a two-week gap between the scene in bed and when Juliet tells Ben. This would explain the time difference, but would also mean that Juliet waited two weeks to tell Ben about a tumor on his spine, which seems odd and cold (although we know Juliet has that capacity). However, (and I need to watch it again too, but Abc.com has yet to put up last night’s episode) the way the flashback was presented, it looks like she immediately went to tell him.
Penelope,
I’m pretty certain Ben said that two days after he found out he had a tumor, a spinal surgeon “crashed” on this island. Taking that at face value, I would read that to mean when the plane actually crashed (two days after whenever Ben found out about the tumor), and not necessarily when Ben found out that Jack was a spinal surgeon. Although, with the Others’ research abilities, it is possible that Mikail discovered that there was a spinal surgeon on the plane on the same day that the plane crashed.
Another thing that I just thought of, what was the reason that Ethan and Richard suggested that Juliet be tranquilized for the trip to the island? They said that most people find it “uncomfortable.” This could either be because it occurred on a submarine, which could be uncomfortable by nature or perhaps they didn’t want to have her awake while boarding the sub. OR, could it possibly be because the trip to the island involved passing through the variations in time (i.e. time travel), which I would imagine could be “uncomfortable.” Finally, it was hilarious when Ethan says, “You probably shouldn’t have drunk that so quickly.”
Comment by Skoks — April 12, 2007 @ 10:00 am
Did anyone else think that those shoes that we saw hanging could possibly have been Claires? It looked like it could have been her shoes. Hope not.
Comment by elle — April 12, 2007 @ 10:57 am
At the end of the trailer, Sawyer is yelling something to the efect of “FINISH HIM!” Cooper HAS to be the real Sawyer, and I bet Sawyer and Locke are each taking their licks at him….thoughts?
Comment by johanngut — April 12, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
okay that first guy has too much free time. Can’t we just watch the damn show and try to place every moment.
Comment by Brian — April 12, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
Sorry Brian, from now on I will limit the content of my posts to criticizing other posts.
Comment by Skoks — April 12, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
You know you guys have lots of good points all i can say is GOD I LOVE LOST……. Thats gotta be the most amazing show i ever watched in my life every episode makes you want to see teh other!
God its only friday hurry up Wednesday!!!
Comment by Chris Blokker — April 13, 2007 @ 3:18 am
My guess about the next episode is that Sawyer will find out that Locke’s father, Cooper, is the original Sawyer, and even though Locke hates him too, he will talk Sawyer out of killing the man. Of course, Cooper’s fate must come to a horrific end, probably by the monster or maybe somehow by Ben.
Comment by Cheex223 — April 13, 2007 @ 5:01 am
I’m praying that the premonition of Charlie’s death somehow corrects itself and Ben is the one who dies at the end of this season. Everyone loves Charlie so much, and it may be easier for the Losties to get information from the Others if Ben is dead, considering how much he lies. But that means Jacob will probably come into the picture and then they’d have a bigger problem to solve…
I’m very much looking forward to the new Desmond flashback and seeing him with Penny again. Cuse and Lindelof said we would be coming back to her with the Portuguese men that were in the plane in these last few episodes…
I love Desmond’s character and Sayid seems to be the only main character with any real sense. I’m hoping he will be more prominent next season. I love Locke and Jack too, but they both need to gain back their respect
Comment by Cheex223 — April 13, 2007 @ 5:13 am
Maybe the time discrepency can be explained along the lines of this:
Juliet only THOUGHT she arrived at the island on X date. But the tranquilized journey took two additional weeks longer than she suspected…? She simply doesn’t know that she’s “two weeks behind” due to the mysterious journey to the island?
Comment by chickeneck — April 13, 2007 @ 7:50 am
Not every one LOVES Charlie and his departure from the island won’t change the show much.
Sawyer gets it’s own with Kate, attacks Locke and I believe at the end he is yelling “FINISH IT” not ‘him’
Ardil 22 / Catch 22, book by Joseph Heller… means NO WIN SITUATION which is probably what the Losties are going to find themselves in.
Man next week is going to be GOOD! Wed’s can’t come soon enough.
Comment by Pitchy — April 13, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Catch 22 suggests a dilema. Desmond has been trying to save Charlie since he traveled in time but some further knowledge may make him realize that saving Charlie may
make some other outcome worse.
Episode Description: Desmond coaxes Charlie, Hurley and Jin on a trek across the jungle after experiencing one of his future-prophesizing
Comment by H20 — April 13, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
It’s hard to tell if those men appearing in what seemed to be a boat in the end of season2 are Portugueses or Brazilian, they sounded like amercican actors trying to pronounce portuguese words!
The brazilian connection to Paulo might be something worth exploring. btw…do you think Paulo is really gone? Locke said “nothing remain buried in the sand” or summit likewise.
About the first post, well done, I think your idea is great but the fact it is probably another thing they want us to believe to be of any significance…
Great episode, and in the words of Hurley “Dude” we are desperate for real answers!!
Cheers, Adeus and Namaste
Comment by LostMing — April 13, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
I am Portuguese, and the season2 finale wasnt with portuguese folks, it was brazilian ppl,
it ISNT the same thing you know :O
Comment by tymonn — April 13, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
does anyone have a clue how the others know everything about the losties? Also what about in Season 1, doesn’t Jack open his father’s casket to find him missing???? does anyone think that the dead come alive somehow on the island?
Comment by LOSTTTT — April 14, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Sorry for the little pvt,
tymonn,
eu sei que Portugueses e Brasileiros n
Comment by LostMing — April 14, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Sorry for the little pvt,
tymonn,
eu sei que Portugueses e Brasileiros n
Comment by LostMing — April 14, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
A couple comments that Juliet has said sticks in my head.
1. Ben always looks at situations to see how they will work to his advantage and makes you think you are the one making the decision.
2.Ben loves mind games.
Now her being left to join the losties was a new game for
Ben, but who is looking for the advantage now? I think Juliet might have her own game going on.
Comment by hbtech — April 15, 2007 @ 8:14 am
I have a theory on how the Others know about the Losties so well…And it’s not (just) because they do/did have communication to the outside world…In the last episode when Juliet confronted Sayid and Sawyer about their sins, I could see where Sayid’s Basra incident might be a matter of public record somewhere…But Sawyer shot that guy with no witnesses and got on the plane and got out of the country…So my theory? Old Smokey reads the minds of the Losties and ‘reports’ back to the Others…Remember the first time Eko saw Smokey, there were glimpses in the smoke of Eko’s life…Like the monster was reading his mind? And that’s how they could know things that aren’t a matter of public record…
Oh, and another theory…Ben is Roger Work Man’s(Hurley’s skeleton) son…
Comment by Smokey — April 15, 2007 @ 10:09 am
i had forgotten all about the smoke monster!! the mind baffles!! although i thought it was odd that kate did not question juliette a little bit more about it and why the ‘electric fence’ thingy was first built.
as for the times, most things happen in the show for a reason but could they possible make a mistake?? not sure. i like the theory about the 2 week submerine trip though as that sort of trip wouldn’t be a same day affair i’m sure so that is probably why there appears to be a 2 week time delay.
as for juliette knowing about sawyer killing that guy the day before the plane trip….i have no idea!!?!?!??!
what day is the show aired in the states? i’m in the UK and cant wait for the next episode so i’ll watch it online when its available
Comment by not lost, just mis-guided — April 15, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
Wednesday nights at 10PM Eastern Standard Time.
Comment by evangelical poet — April 17, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
Actually, the book seen in the Catch-22, is Brazilian vrsion of the Joseph Heller’s book. We can see the logo of the “Editora Record”, that was printed in 70’s.
Comment by Valdifc — April 22, 2007 @ 6:51 am