The Tail Section

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1. 

   Love the stuff with the clock and time changing. Really wierd. but i’m at work and cant check up on this… Wasn’t the book club scene with Juliet and the “snobby” man who said Ben wouldn’t read King in the bathroom, in the the fall season premiere(can’t remember the title) not in “Not in Portland”

   Comment by Dr. Nope — March 22, 2007 @ 6:02 pm

2. 

   I’m kinda skeptical about it being Juliet on the painting in Ben’s home. I think it may have been Ben’s beloved one a long time ago, and then she passed away… Just my personal feelings, though… Weird hamster, btw… lol

   Comment by Lost_in_Brazil — March 22, 2007 @ 6:02 pm

3. 

   I’M AMAZED NO ONE HAS NOTICED THIS BUT IF YOU LOOK CLEARLY AT THE END OF THIS EPISODE LOCKES FATHER HAS NO ARMS, I REPEAT, NO ARMS, I’VE CHECKED 5 OR 6 TIMES AND I’M SURE OF THIS

   Comment by Morty — March 22, 2007 @ 6:19 pm

4. 

   LOL Morty, if you put your arms behind your back, do they cease to exist? Go ahead and try that now, if your arms vanish, type your follow up by mashing your face on the keyboard. (Note: this comment is all in good fun, not a flame)

   Comment by Dusk — March 22, 2007 @ 7:06 pm

5. 

   “type your follow up by mashing your face on the keyboard”

   I just spit up all over myself….HAHAHAHA!!

   Comment by El Prez — March 22, 2007 @ 7:23 pm

6. 

   I don’t think it was Locke who was falling in the Hurley/accountant scene way back. Unless Locke’s Dad has an apartment in an office building. That just doesn’t match up well.

   Comment by Postulio — March 22, 2007 @ 7:51 pm

7. 

   http://WWW.EGOPLEX.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

   LOST: Schroedinger’s Castaways
   The following post uses LOST as a jumping off point, but may be interesting to those who don’t follow the show as well. I’ll eventually write this in an entirely non-LOST version, but for now you’ll have to bear with me…

   The Schroedinger’s Cat thought experiment in quantum physics goes like this:

   You have a lead box. Into this box, you place a cat, a Geiger counter, a cyanide cannister and the radioactive nucleus of an atomic isotope. The Geiger counter is connected to the cyanide so that, when the radioactive material decays and emits a particle, it triggers the release of the cyanide and kills the cat. There’s a 50 percent chance the particle will be emitted in a given time frame, usually stated as an hour for the sake of discussion.

   The emission of the particle is governed by the laws of quantum physics, which state that until the particle is observed, it exists only as a “superposition of probabilities.” In other words, there is a 50 percent chance the cat is dead after the time limit has been reached, but that chance doesn’t become real until an observation is made.

   The question — which has caused many a headache over the years — becomes this: If you don’t open the box after an hour, is the cat dead or alive? The correct answer is that until you open the box and look, the cat is neither dead nor alive, but exists in a sort of split-simultaneous reality in which both possible outcomes are present. Sometimes this is called a “cloud of possibilities” that only coalesces into reality when an observation is made, which is an adequate way to think about it for purposes of this discussion.

   When the castaways on LOST opened “the hatch” at the end of Season One, I speculated that the hatch might have been like Schroedinger’s lead box — the contents of the hatch didn’t exist until the hatch was opened and the castaways looked inside. After this week’s episode — titled “?” — I’m toying with another idea.

   In “?” we learned that another hatch, called the “Pearl Station,” was tasked with monitoring Dharma Initiative experiements including the “Swan Station,” where our heroes have set up camp and obligingly pressed the mysterious button every 108 minutes. An “Orientation” video for the Pearl Station explained that the function of the Pearl hatch was to observe the other hatches, record the results of the Dharma Industries psychological experiments taking place within, and send the results via pneumatic tube to a still-unknown location.

   This raised several questions in my mind. What if the Island — and its hatches — are actually a series of Schroedinger boxes, one inside the other, with the castaways trapped inside? What strangeness would ensue?

   The Pearl Station was an observation station. But there is no one left there to observe. Did the Pearl Station observers cause the reality of the Dharma experiments on the Island and in the hatches to coalesce from a cloud of superimposed probabilities into a single reality?

   And when the Pearl Station was abandoned, did it cause solid reality to remained melted in a morass of probabilities? Remember that Henry Gale told Locke that “even God can’t see what happens” on the Island.

   Could this explain the bizarre and seemingly impossible phenomena encountered by the castaways — such as Jack’s father Christian being both dead and alive simultaneously? (That crazy cat!)

   But we can get weirder still. The Pearl Station was there to observe the other experiments. But as we saw in “?”, there was also a camera mounted in the Pearl Station — which means the station was itself being observed by someone else.

   Let’s start with one (relatively) simple variation of the Schroedinger’s Cat puzzle and work our way up.

   What if the only observers in the experiment are inside Schroedinger’s box — and the entire universe outside the box is undetermined until observed?

   What if there are multiple boxes outside the first box? Or even infinite boxes, each ready to spring into existence when the one before it is opened?

   We’re inverting Schroedinger’s cat here. Inside the box, we place an observer. Let’s call him John Locke. We seal John in the lead box (with some suitable contrivance allowing him to survive).

   Then, outside the lead box, we put Schroedinger’s poor abused cat and the attendant apparatus. Until Locke leaves the box, the cat is neither alive nor dead.

   This sets up an intriguing hypothesis in which the castaways are a group of observers who have been locked “inside” a Schroedinger box. When they opened the hatch, they weren’t going “inside” the hatch, they were going “outside” the Island. By observing the hatch, the Dharma Initiative coalesced into a reality, leading to more developments and artifacts. What if there is no world beyond the Island — at least, not until our castaways go “outside” to see it?

   But we can get weirder still. Let’s call this next experiment Berger’s Diminishing Cat.

   You have the typical Schroedinger setup with the lead box as outlined at the beginning of this article. But then you take that lead box, and you put it inside another lead box. In the second box, the outer box, there is also a Geiger counter and a radioactive particle.

   This Geiger counter is wired to an impenetrable padlock on the first box. If a radioactive particle is emitted, the padlock opens. If not, it remains locked. We then seal the outer box.

   An hour passes. There is now a 50 percent possibility that the outer box Geiger counter has unlocked the second box. If the second box has not been unlocked, then no observation is possible and the cat must remain trapped in a “cloud of possibilities.”

   But until you open the outer box, the question of whether or not the cat’s plight can coalesce into an outcome from a cloud of possibilities is itself only a cloud of possibilities. So not only is the cat neither alive nor dead, but it is also simultaneously possible and impossible to determine whether the cat is alive or dead.

   The cat’s fate is now twice removed from solid reality. In the normal Shroedinger’s Cat experiment, the cat is rendered into a superposition of probabilities. In Berger’s Cat, the first superposition of probabilities has itself become a superposition of probabilities. There is now, literally, only a ghost of a chance that the cat can manifest as either alive or dead.

   With only a 50-50 chance that the cat’s fate can even be determined, the cat’s actual set of probabilities has now changed. In the original experiment, the superposition is binary — the two possible outcomes that have been superimposed are 1) the cat is alive and 2) the cat is dead. In the Berger’s Cat experiment, the “cloud of possibilities” inside the boxes is now trinary — 1) the cat is alive, 2) the cat is dead, and 3) the cat is trapped in a state of superposition between alive and dead.

   The original superposition itself becomes part of a bigger superposition. Could this create a sort of recursive fractal feedback loop of weirdness? (My head starts to hurt when I think about this too much, but I’ll play through the pain and let you know.)

   What if there was a third box? Or a fourth? Or a hundred? What if the innermost box didn’t simply determine whether the cat was alive or dead, but encompassed an even broader range of possibilities?

   Comment by Stev — March 22, 2007 @ 8:43 pm

8. 

   Wow Stev! there’s enough material there for an entire season! Except the cat would instead be the hamster that Juliet was holding in the portrait

   Comment by Huygens — March 22, 2007 @ 8:48 pm

9. 

   Dusk,

   Best. Comment. Ever.

   lmfao over here… hehehe…

   Comment by nobody important — March 22, 2007 @ 8:56 pm

10. 

    The man falling in Hurley’s flashback wasn’t Locke. It doesn’t match up location AND timeline wise. We are even told the man died.

    Comment by Victor — March 22, 2007 @ 10:03 pm

11. 

    Regarding the lead box idea -
    Just because you can’t see whats happening to the cat doesn’t mean a damn thing. If its dead then its dead precisely at the moment it died.
    I hate that existential crap. And I hope the Lost producers aren’t on the same drugs as whoever came up with that stupid concept.

    Comment by Egor — March 23, 2007 @ 1:22 am

12. 

    Its not existential at all. Schroedinger’s cat is a real scientific conundrum because we don’t know enough about things on the quantum level.
    And if you don’t like “existential crap”, you’d better bail off the Lost boat fast.

    I reccomend American Idol.

    Comment by Jimmy Zer0 — March 23, 2007 @ 1:32 am

13. 

    lol, no way the girl in the painting with the hamster is Juliet. Looks nothing like her. If it’s supposed to be her it’s a really bad painting.

    Comment by icechiller — March 23, 2007 @ 2:55 am

14. 

    Loved this ep, was one of my fav, being a locke fan!

    Although all hope is not lost (excuse the pun!) of being able to escape the island, what with the guys picking up the magnetic signal from the island when des turned the key!

    Maybe well see soon off the island (and not in a flash back) some peeps getting closer to finding the island?

    In regards to lockes dad (who im pretty sure still has his arms!), does this have somthing to do with eko and jack seeing people they know on the island? so many questions about that its hard o being, guess ill just have to tune in to find out!

    Comment by Tone — March 23, 2007 @ 4:21 am

15. 

    Egor, Shroedinger’s cat has absolutely nothing to do with existentialism whatsoever, you should look up words in your dictionary before making such statement, even better, look up quantum physics and the Shroedinger experiment in an encyclopedia. This is a real physics theory about the tangible reality of quantum states. Just as with the light experiment where results show photons interacting with other photons…that aren’t really there. On the quantum level, reality is imposible to define with certainty. And I actualy like this theory that the island itself is some sort of Shroedinger’s box, more on the narative level, and not actualy as such.

    As to the easter eggs, it seems weird that guy would say Ben would not read such books and then we see The Gunslinger on his nightstand. I hope the writers wouldn’t make such a mistake and then just dismiss it. A little continuity in one of the most important characters isn’t such a small thing imo. So maybe after being captured in the hatch and dying of cancer he changed his mind about King somehow, or, as speculated Juliet and he were married or something like that, and that is actualy her book, or a present to him. Something like that.

    Comment by zblorg — March 23, 2007 @ 4:22 am

16. 

    I jus have a question to ask… im not very good at working out timelines.

    Was Danielle on the island at the same time as Dharma?? or have the other already wiped them out before her arrival??

    please if anyone can answer?
    Also, a friend watched ‘the man from..’ with me last night, he’s never watched lost before, i explained this was prob a good one to watch! filled him on some back storey, explained the episodes are loaded with symbolism. After watching he was really impressed, but asked straight away “so Locke, thats got to be some sort of clue/sybol isnt is it, his name, he’s a lock a puzzle and somewhere is the key to him??”

    id never thought of this before an it kinda blow me away. What if locke is the center to this whole puzzle, might explain his connection with the island etc.

    just a thought i hadnt read anywhere else i dont think.

    Comment by Stuo — March 23, 2007 @ 4:52 am

17. 

    Will Danielle go commando and help the lostaways escape? - why would they want to escape? lol doesnt seem bad over there.

    Is John well on his way to becoming an other? Johns more of an other then some of the others, and he probably knows more too!.

    Comment by jimyy — March 23, 2007 @ 6:01 am

18. 

    Ah, Schroedinger - another scientist - and sadist (no way can it be argued that the cat had to actually die in order for the theory to be substantiated, just as there was no reason for Edison to capriciously electrocute dogs and cats merely to ‘prove’ that AC current was deadly)…..that aside, ‘Doc’ Berger’s observation once again emphasizes the importance of subjective perception on this island, questioning one’s beliefs based upon determining whether the information presented is sufficient to arrive at a particular conclusion - which is absolutely the underpinning theme of LOST…..

    As to who is portrayed in the painting, it does bear a SLIGHT resemblance to Juliet and therefore is likely sister Rachel given that concession - the only other person it could be is Karen deGroot and Gerald might just have had something to say about that. Furthermore, if KdG was approximately 30 years old when the DHARMA Initiative first formed (say, 1969) that would make her 56 in 2004 - but curiously, that comes awfully close to Michael Emerson’s actual age, so depending upon just what Ben’s history is, that’s not entirely unreasonable either. But I do believe that there will be more clues forthcoming in “One Of Us” (Ep 16) and a mere side-by-side comparison should really go a long way toward confirming this suspicion, with Robin Weigert on the portrait’s left and Elizabeth Mitchell to its right - DocArzt, will you be so kind as to post that comparison separately? And why hasn’t ANYONE attempted to rewrite lyrics for “Ben” by MJ to fit LOST narratives? Or how he looks uncannily like a Peanuts character with those eyes - say, LINUS? OK, I’m getting carried away now…..

    Finally, a note on Anthony Cooper being bereft of arms - if he is in his late sixties, then they might’ve shrunk to a certain degree and be so slight as to appear removed if mostly obstructed by his torso (although Kevin Tighe is NOT a small man…..) But just for argument’s sake, it does raise the persistent question of just why there would be a need to amputate upper appendages anyhow…..is the philosophical reason similar to that of the One-Armed Man in “Twin Peaks”, whereby it was suggested that Killer demon BOB was, speaking more than likely metaphorically, his arm - a variation of the old saw, ‘idle hands are the Devil’s workshop’?

    Comment by ogam5 — March 23, 2007 @ 6:14 am

19. 

    Whoops - I meant that Karen deGroot would now be ‘66′ - misplaced a decade, but it’s becoming apparent that may be an easy thing to do on this island - clearly need some breakfast. With that in mind, it may be she was around 5 years younger in 1969 and thus 61 instead…..

    Comment by ogam5 — March 23, 2007 @ 6:18 am

20. 

    Why is the village now near water deep enough for a submarine? I’m confused about the whole layout of the island.

    Comment by AnotherOther — March 23, 2007 @ 6:23 am

21. 

    Why can’t the sail boat get them off the island? No fuel is required, there is plenty ofroom for supplies (since it was a round the world race), seems like there is something we don’t know and the PTB ain’t sayin’.

    What happened to Micheal? Was the sonar beacon the tool which was used to determine his heading?

    While Lost has ‘gotten better’ since the hiatus, there are still too many unresolved story lines.

    I’m a fan not a fanatic.

    Comment by dug — March 23, 2007 @ 6:39 am

22. 

    ahahahah, of course his father has arms…you can see them clearly so check a 7th time Morty

    Comment by Roovi — March 23, 2007 @ 7:40 am

23. 

    and of course the woman on the painting is not Juliet…how can you possibly think that ;D

    Comment by Roovi — March 23, 2007 @ 7:43 am

24. 

    Maybe i’m just blind but what easter egg is hidden on Lockes disability application? I don’t see anything to scrutinize.

    Comment by thefallguy1 — March 23, 2007 @ 8:24 am

25. 

    what if the magical box ben was talking about was the island.In quantum mechanics there is an experiment called shrodingers cat ,where u put a cat in a box and seal it off from the outside world , the cat is both alive and dead 50/50 and exists as a wave inside the box , not until an observer opens the box and looks at the cat does the wave collapse and the cat becomes either alive or dead.so in quantum mechanics the observer decides the fate of the cat.We know the island is cut off from the outside world so mayb it exists as a kind of wave.The problem is which observer on the island can make the wave collapse ..jacob? or mayb walt could with his ability

    Comment by thomas muir — March 23, 2007 @ 8:32 am

26. 

    sorry steve i didnt read your post. What if the magnetic anomoly was the box preventing anybody from looking inside and the hatch was like the gieger counter , because its really the gieger counter in schrodingers expirement that creates the wave.So depending if the button got pushed or not the island becomes real to the outside world so as desmond is pushing the button the island must exist as a wave to the outside world neither real or unreal just a superposition of possibilties and as oceanic flight was flying over the water desmond had forgot to push the button and the magnetic anomoly( the box) was cut off and the wave collapsed (the same as looking inside the box)making the island real for a split second until he pushed the button again.The experiment also says that after the box closes again the objects inside start to become a wave again

    Comment by thomas muir — March 23, 2007 @ 9:04 am

27. 

    did anyone even notice that locke was wet when the sub blew up? I think he submerged it, swam back, then blew something else up to look like he demo’d the sub.

    Comment by Thiger — March 23, 2007 @ 10:25 am

28. 

    Let me try to put Schroedinger’s cat in layman’s terms (let me know if I missed something).

    Let’s say the island is original reality. The hatches would then be seperate boxes (made by DHARMA?) whose own reality does not exist (except to the island’s inhabitants watching on camera) until the 815ers open the hatch (by the way remember Des telling Jack to, “Lift it up” while running the stops). In turn our world may lie within the question mark as it is another box (made by the natives of the island?). That reality does not exist to those outside the box until they open it. If the island dies (original reality) every other box will collapse (the magnetic anomally?) thus destroying all worlds. The island and its boy Locke are trying to restore order. This is a brilliant theory…

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 11:12 am

29. 

    Errr, I meant running the steps…

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 12:03 pm

30. 

    ur wrong cap10tripps, desmond being inside the hatch means he has observed it so the hatch has already collapsed and become real so the hatch cant be the box also desmond could go outside

    Comment by thomas muir — March 23, 2007 @ 1:05 pm

31. 

    nothing is allowed to be observed inside the box and you need something like a gieger counter so you can create the wave inside the box

    Comment by thomas muir — March 23, 2007 @ 1:37 pm

32. 

    Yes Thomas, but DHARMA creates the sickness and the hostiles to insure the cats don’t leave (remember Kelvin knew outside was fine but wouldn’t let Des leave and was pretending to wear the hazard suit). Desmond was the cat in the swan as whoever was in the pearl were cats. The other hatches that we know of not so much but those two in particular could be considered DHARMA made boxes, while the question mark could be more of a mystical box created by the ancient race of natives.

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 2:13 pm

33. 

    All of this talk of boxes has me thinking of the “Futurama” where the professor creates a box containing a parrallel universe where the same people exist but different decissions slightly alter the course of things. Now hear me out on my 2nd official theory…

    What if the island is remnants of a once great planet earth (far in the future, four toed, advanced humans) now almost completely destroyed. There are however a select group who have created a “box” which is essentially a parallel universe or another plane of existence. The natives create this box to continue human life and avoid the complete end of the world. The gateway can be breached (however rare that may be), which is how Magnus Hanso crash lands and discovers the island. His ancestor Alvar (whose world is heading for the same destruction) knows the stories, believes them, and decides to find it along with a group of people dedicated in changing the creeping death that is the Valenzetti equation. Eventually DHARMA/Hanso (and eventually Widmore and Mittelos) lands and purges the island of its worldly natives (insert 1st official theory here). The natives are aware that the natural order must continue and once the world they’ve created ends, they will create a new box. If this does not happen everything will collapse essentially being the definitive end. So DHARMA must be stopped by the island (and agent Smokey), Locke and the 815ers, and the natives we have yet to meet or else in the immortal words of Roger Waters, “Good bye blue sky, goodbye…”

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

34. 

    its an interesting theory mate. ive not followed the lost experience and dunno much about the valenzetti equation

    Comment by thomas muir — March 23, 2007 @ 3:01 pm

35. 

    By the way, I forgot to mention that if this scenario is true, then the island would be the original plane of existence. That is why if it comes to a definitive end so would the other plane/planes…

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 3:04 pm

36. 

    Yo Mr. Muir, the Valenzetti equation has been validated within the show by Radzinski’s scribblings on the blast door map. The equation (which is what the #’s are believed to be) has essentially calculated the time of the end of the world as we know it (not a complete destruction but close). It has to do with a meteor that will be visible in the skies for years creating mass hysteria. Whether the meteor actually hits or not, Earth is FUBAR. In my theory the original plane would have already gone through this scenario, while the alternate plane has recently (around the time DHARMA comes into the picture, late 1970’s I believe) discovered the equation. By purging the island of its inhabitants and resources they have begun killing it. If this is all that is truly left, then killing it would end every plane and all existence…

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 3:14 pm

37. 

    I’ve also been thinkin on lil Aaron. What if he is a far down the line descendent of Valenzetti? Perhaps the others took him to inject him with something to stop his bloodline. They would be trying to ultimately stop the worldwide panic that became of Valenzetti’s equation…

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 23, 2007 @ 3:58 pm

38. 

    Just a reminder..I didn’t write the Schroedinger’s Castaways comment. I got it from a website calle “Egoplex.com”. Regardless of the fisability of the actual lead box scinario, it sure does make for a fun potential element on Lost. Jim Berger is the original author, an he has quite a bit more interesting blogs and links about the show. Everybody should check it out!!!

    Comment by Stev — March 23, 2007 @ 9:26 pm

39. 

    ….I enjoy the dialog about the Schroedinger’s Castaways article alot!!!

    Comment by Stev — March 23, 2007 @ 9:27 pm

40. 

    Very thought provoking stuff Mr. Stev…

    Comment by cap10tripps — March 24, 2007 @ 8:30 pm

41. 

    Has someone noticed that the bottle of scotch Locks’s father pours two glassed from is the exact bottle we’ve seen in “flashes before your eyes” with Desmond’s travel ?
    McCutchin 60 or whatever its name is…

    That bottle was obviously put there for some reason… which one could it be ????????

    Comment by Diego — March 27, 2007 @ 1:08 am

42. 

    two things i noticed in the man from tallahassee…

    first, did anyone else think that one of the two men who captured kate in jack’s room looked a lot like michael?!?! there is only one other we know of who is a black man - ivan - and the guy in the episode looked WAY more like michael than ivan… very brief flash of him…who knows…

    and also, at the end of the episode, i think that locke’s father is wearing the same shirt he was wearing when he pushed john out the window. it is very dirty and dusty, making it look gray, but when they zoom in on him, around the collar is wet or something, and you can clearly see white dots/diamonds on a dark background…

    what do you think?!

    Comment by nicfischer5 — March 28, 2007 @ 8:51 am

43. 

    The answer to LOST is simple, as much as I would like it to be associated with Quantum Mechanics or Schrodingers Cat its not guys.

    Its plain to see that the whole series really evolves around one individual, that individual is the cause of everyone�s suffering, that individual is biologically associated with everyone on the island. As the show progresses you will see that everyone is biologically related to each other, everyone is trying to seek an end to a journey, and that journey will ultimately stop at one individual.

    The show is all about one individual person, would you like to know who it is! shall I show you what came out of the box?

    Comment by The man from Godalming — April 3, 2007 @ 5:13 pm

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