Heroes Indebted to LOST for Twists?
With all the comparisons (favorable and non) between Heroes and LOST these days, I was pretty surprised to learn exactly how much influence the LOST gang had over Heroes. We’re not talking mere formulaic pastiche, LOST architect Damon Lindelof was actually directly responsible for a major piece of the HEROES frame work, Peter Petrelli’s power absorption abilities.
An article in the SunHerald examines the connections between the two shows in great depth, including the controversy concerning the mysterious Gannon Car Rentals brochures that appear everywhere from the Mickey Mouse Club to LOST (turns out Gannon is amongst several brand names reserved for the motion picture industry at large. Damn, I’m sure that just collapsed about a million theories.) But the article isn’t all speculation, mind you, they went directly to the sources, Kring and Lindelof, amongst others. Among the extremely revealing quotes:
"We had a couple lunches, had a couple beers, he would talk to me about some of the ideas he was having… sort of pick my brain," Lindelof said. To good effect. It was Lindelof, it turns out, who suggested the plot-twist ending of the "Heroes" pilot: That idealistic Peter Petrelli, who believed he could fly, should plummet off a building and be rescued by his brother Nathan - who actually could. (It was Kring, Lindelof said, who added the idea that Peter has powers, too.)
Okay, so that minor detail in many ways shaped the flow of the entire Heroes plot. If Peter were not a powers sponge, and his brother were not a deeply conflicted closet superhero, things may have turned out as campy as a lot of people expected.
Of course, to be fair, Heroes has an extremely talented writing staff (a couple of them came from LOST, I’d like to point out) following these suggestions, but it does good things to my sense of LOST pride to know that every time somebody tauts Heroes as the "LOST-Killer", we can hold this little fact over their heads.
I’ve only seen the pilot, and i liked it, but i havent watched it since. Hero’s , for me at least, if one of those “wait till it comes out on dvd kinda shows” - Besides, Lost is the only show that makes me think, and always throws something new and strange into the mix. Nothing can top it, theres never been anything like Lost, and for me, theres nothing else out there that can even come close to the mythology.
Long live John “I just saved us all” Locke. I believed him the moment he said that line, and it still holds true to this day.
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 7:54 am
@Jimmy, While my allegiance will always be with Lost, you’re doing yourself a disservice if you let the pacing/whatever of the first few episodes keep you from watching what’s turned out to be a pretty awesome little show. Yeah, the dialogue is a little stiff at times [which I chalk up to the writers really going for a comic book-y thing] but the plots are really kickass and there’s plenty of attractiveness to look at. [God, the things I'd do to Nathan Petrelli!] I was a latecomer to the show as well but I’m really glad I gave it a chance. It’s no Lost but there probably never will be. Don’t hold that against a good show though.
Comment by RSL — March 9, 2007 @ 8:34 am
Please. I come to this site for interesting Lost info, and what do I get? Some catty little post about how it was *really* Damon who was responsible for a critical piece of Heroes’ success?
The passage you quote doesn’t even imply what you’re inferring from it. What Damon suggested was the plot mechanism behind how the episode ended, but not anything about Peter’s ability in particular. I didn’t see anything about power-absorption in that quote, and the concept isn’t even introduced until the next episode or two. Jeez, it even says that Damon acknowledged that Kring came up with the idea of Peter having powers.
So did Damon really ghost-write the “Company Man” episode too (best episode of TV this year)? I mean, all they were doing was just “stealing” that Lost flashback mechanism anyway, amiright?
I can understand the Lost-defensiveness on this site, and I can just take that as a given, but this little petty stuff? Come on. Really. Heroes is its own show, and Lost is its own show, and the two are allowed to coexist peacefully.
And btw the word is “touts,” not “tauts.”
Comment by sunnysider — March 9, 2007 @ 8:37 am
RSL - yea, i agree, and im not saying i dont like it, or im not going to watch it. But its something that i’d rather pick up on DVD and just breese through it. But I can’t do that with lost, I HAVE to tune in and painstakingly sit through commericals. I cant do that with other shows. That’s why i always watched HBO, Rome, Entourage, Deadwood, no commericals, non-stop. Its soo much better.. But Lost is worth it.
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 8:42 am
LOST>>>>>Heroes any day of the week. Characters are better, story is better, Sceneary is better, acting is better, Ladies are hotter, etc. I could go on and on. To me, LOST is probably the best TV series I’ve ever invested my time into.
Comment by Aeolian42 — March 9, 2007 @ 8:49 am
oops… actually it is supposed to be “taunts” not “tauts” but your way works as well
Comment by docarzt — March 9, 2007 @ 8:50 am
wow…nothing sunny about sunnysider….way to break out the whipping stick…especially with the grammar…maybe Doc was inferring that comparing Heroes to LOST was a “stretch” when he used taut, instead of tout…perhaps you should start a service that corrects people in an inferior way..or is it superior? See? That service would really come in handy…
What I did like about the article was the following:
“But the conceits behind the shows are different, too, Kring said. And because he’s not locked in space or time, he has the easier job. “We’re not positing the central mysteries that you have to wrap a story around,” he said. “It frees us up to tell a story at a different pace.”
Big lesson learned. Just as LOST learned form X Files and Twin Peaks.
Here’s a possible spoiler from Lindelof:
“It didn’t even occur to me that it was a wink-wink to ‘Lost,’ because our characters don’t have superpowers,” he said.
So Desmond can travel through time how, exactly?…Hmmmm
Comment by El Prez — March 9, 2007 @ 8:56 am
To me it’s not about which show is better, it’s about what stories entertain me. “Lost” and “Heroes” are to of the most entertaining shows on TV and constantly have me on the edge of my seat, and when episodes of both shows are done, I’m constantly craving more. I’m going to keep watching both to the end.
Comment by Jeff — March 9, 2007 @ 8:58 am
Heroes is a good (obviously LOST influenced) show. LOST is a great (obviously X-Files influenced) show. The difference to me is that LOST took the central theme idea of the X-Files and improved greatly on it, while Heroes took the all encompassing idea from LOST and tweaked it. My opinion is that LOST is the far better show (I love the way it stimulates the mind). Heroes is good, but I would also rather wait for the DVD’s. Deadwood, Entourage, and The Sopranos are the other shows I watch regularly (I’ve just recentl started checking out Rome also). The lack of commercials really allow you to be immersed. Lost is the only show that can hold my attention while having a 2.5min break every 12.5min. So I concur Jimmyy.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 9:12 am
Aeolian42 — Characters and acting on lost is great. Well, actually, its not GREAT, theres alot of characters on lost that could die in the next epi without batting an eye.
Great characters: Locke( the man is great), Ben (totally owns a scene no matter what, even face down on his stomach he can out act whoever steps in the room with him), Desmond(great timing and facial expressions), Jack (he’s got fury, and i like that crazy side of him that comes out of no where), Sayid (the man tortures
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 9:14 am
By the way Doc, where’s part III? I know your interview kind of put the kabosh on the bad twins being the central mystery, but I think you could still be on to something (they did say it would come into play somehow). Besides, it’s those kind of posts that get us all thinking and adding to our own theories.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 9:19 am
just for the record, im calling this one now.
Ben and Locke, I think their going to see eye to eye sooner then later. Locke swore he would protect Ben (no matter what), and besides, Locke was kinda like an Other on the outside world, when he was with the drug dealers (weed), they lived like a cult
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 9:32 am
I completely agree Jimyy. Locke seems as a double agent right now, as he obviously does not want to leave the island. He will be with the others soon enough.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 9:44 am
Cap - one can only hope! I’ve been DYING for Locke and Ben to have another convo, two great actors that feed off eachother perfectly.
Also, what do u think Sayid is going to say when he sees Jack taking care of Ben? hm hm hmmm? is he going to go after jack or ben 1st? lol my money is on Jack. then Locke will have to be the voice of reason.
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 9:46 am
I think there will be lots of confusion for the search party. Ben and Sayid have some history, so expect plenty of tension there. My best guess is that they will get captured, Ben will extract some revenge on Sayid (room 23?), Kate will be told by Jack that they’re not so bad (either meaning it or trying to lull them into a false sense of security), and Locke and Ben will have some in depth conversations to lead the man of faith to join the fate-mongers.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 9:55 am
i like it i like it. DOC! any input here?
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Comment by Dan McCutcheon — March 9, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Question for everyone… Does anyone else think our lovely little island chain is Shambala (greatly hinted at in Tricia Tanaka is Dead)? That is a place written by Tibetan buddhists where an ancient (possibly eternal) race of people live, making sure the course of things is on track. They write that it’s deep within the Himilayas. This has me wondering if the Penny-connected arctic scientists are located somewhere in the Himilaya mountains. Thoughts???
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 10:15 am
nice catch caps!
*goes to do research*
Comment by cerberus — March 9, 2007 @ 10:25 am
Wikipedia says this …place of peace/tranquility/happiness - Shambhala is believed to be a society where all the inhabitants are enlightened, actually a Buddhist “Pure Land” — Sure seems that way, did u see the way Sayid put a gun to Mr.Klugh (if i spelled that right) and she didnt seem like it bothered her one bit, enlightened much ? i think so.
The Kalachakra prophesizes that when the world declines into war and greed, and all is lost, the twenty-fifth Kulika king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish the corrupt and usher in a worldwide Golden Age. - sure sounds like a purge.
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 10:28 am
To be honest (if anyone really cares) I think Heroes is insulting. The dialogue is so bad, the characters are stiff and one-dimensional, and the plot twists are laughably obvious. That being said, I still watch it, which, I guess says something about the show or at least the current state of TV. The show did get better after the hiatus but with the recent twists with the shape-shifter… I dunno…
Comment by Erick — March 9, 2007 @ 10:55 am
The only thing I don’t like about heroes is the lack of new ideas for powers.
Perer Petrelli = Rogue (X-Men)
Nathan Petrelli = Should I even go there?
Stripper Chick = The hulk (kind of)
Claire = Wolverine (his healing powers)
etc etc.
the only good one is the Painting the Future thing - completely original
Comment by mike — March 9, 2007 @ 11:07 am
If your looking for a entertaining show that satisfies every week and has a big story arc like lost with all plot development look no further then prison break.
As much as Lost is my favorite show on tv (by far.)
Prison Break is the most satisfying and both kinds of lost fans can appreciate it, those who want constant plot moving forward, and those that are interested in some pretty damn good characters, at this point they got rid of the weaker ones. And like Lost the show is about one big story arc the pilot episode up until when the finale comes it’s all leading towards one thing. Sure it’s not a show that makes u think and the situations can get ridiculous but it’s highly entertaing always action packed and I really feel it might have the best writers on tv. I know people won’t agree but hear me out For a network tv show prison break should have been like a one season show, these guys have creatively made the show continue, and somehow kept the characters fresh, the plot always moving forward/fresh, along with answering questions on a regular basis. Season 1 was like Shawshank redemption while season 2 is like the fugitive. And I believe season 3 will be the finish, a solid begining middle and end.
I REALLY MISS CARNIVALE THOUGH!
Haven’t watched Heroes yet have been dvr’ng and will itunes the ones I missed.
Rome is another great show but it will only be 22 episodes long. But damn is it a strong show in every department.
Comment by cekma — March 9, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Don’t get me wrong, Lost and it’s writers/creators are producing the most groundbreaking show in the history of NETWORK television, the story, the vision, the influences, the fan society/theories, all the research and mythology one could do about real life events that could be connected to this show. It’s quite amazing, I applaud them.
Comment by cekma — March 9, 2007 @ 11:15 am
All I can offer is one fans perspective, and this is not influenced by the countless naysayers out there who are trashing Lost. Like you Doc, I despised network television. I gave up TV years ago, and had no regrets. Then I rented disc one of Lost: Season One, and I’ve been hooked since. That led into suggestions that I might like Battlestar Galactica, and also Heroes, and I have.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Lost and Heroes are both good shows, but they’re also completely different. Heroes operates on a season long story arc, where each season is supposed to be a self contained story, while Lost is telling a multi-season story arc. It’s the reason why Heroes can deliver quickly on it’s reveals, while Lost is more slow and plodding.
As a fan of both, I have to say that as of right now I’m finding Heroes to be more satisfying overall, probably because we’re getting closer to the end of the season and the pace is picking up. And I’m sure the slow pace of the Lost mini-season didn’t help, though thankfully the pace has been picked up. I saw in another comment that Lost is obviously inspired by The X-Files, and while I think a connection can be drawn, I hope that Lost doesn’t lose focus of its mythological story like The X-Files did towards the end.
Comment by GodBlessTexas — March 9, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
Completely agree with your last statement Texas. That’s why the producers are currently in talks to come up with a firm end point. The X-Files just dragged after Duchovny left. Fox was obviously trying to milk every last dollar they could from it. I hope ABC takes notice. If the X-Files had ended 2 seasons earlier it would have been looked back on in a higher regard. The definitive end point would be another groundbreaker for this groundbreaking show.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Yeah, the X-files point is huge. The amount of filler episodes they jammed into the series, pretty much from the get-go ultimately left it bloated and boring.
All these shows need to constantly reassure us that they are going somewhere worthwhile. Im glad that TV is getting into longer story arcs, but I don’t think they should be a blank check for meandering for years through a story that could legitimately be told in a season or two.
As for the Heroes v Lost, it’s irellevant. They’re on separate nights. We can all enjoy both and not affect the ratings of the other. Since we are all fans of serialized TV, it would do us a future service to not hate on shows within the genre.
Comment by burgerdog — March 9, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
I don’t understand all this heroes Vs lost bullshit.
Heroes and Lost are two completely different show’s and are both awesome in their own right.
Lost is the most original programme I’ve ever seen, the mythology, the deep rich characters, the subtle clues, the hot debates sparked from each episode.
Heroes, it has it’s moments when you think “I never saw that coming”, but the majority of the time it’s pretty straight forward, easy watching and enjoyable.
These are by far the two best show’s on at the moment, and comparing them to each other just seem’s a bit silly to me as i don’t think there alike at all.
Surely there’s enough love in your hearts for both Lost and Heroes!!
Comment by Markus.darkus — March 9, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
It’s a competitive world and where there are TWO of anything, the people will pit those two things against each other till there is just one. People, events, movies, tv. It’s a sad commentary on human nature, really.
Me, I love both, and am waiting for the day a third show comes in and messes up everyone’s 1 on 1 mentality.
Comment by Dusk — March 9, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
It’s a competitive world and where there are TWO of anything, the people will pit those two things against each other till there is just one. People, events, movies, tv. It’s a sad commentary on human nature, really.
Me, I love both, and am waiting for the day a third show comes in and messes up everyone’s 1 on 1 mentality.
Comment by Dusk — March 9, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
I second sunnysider. Irrelevant, defensive for no reason and misleading article.
Comment by Turkey Sandwich — March 9, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
heh, Damon is the man. Lost is ‘the’ show. Heroes is a good popcorn show, but… you know… Lost is where it’s really at.
Comment by coolio — March 9, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
I watch both shows and enjoy them for different reasons.
Lost grabbed me immediately and I never looked back. The concept, acting and directing are truly brilliant. The layered journey has gotten the average television viewer to watch something with complexity, and that is a win for us all. However, week after week I find myself disappointed with the lack of progression, the focus on a contrived love triangle, and filler episodes with flashbacks that repeat aspects we have already learned about the focal characters.
Although I felt Heroes had potential in the beginning, it didn’t really impress me until the fourth week in. Some of the acting is marginal, some of its ideas are borrowed, and about half of its characters are cliches. However, week after week I find myself impressed with true character development, exciting new elements that add to the storyline, and a sense of fulfillment after each week’s hour long episode.
Both series have their strengths and weaknesses. Why does everyone feel the need to compare them as if they are the same? Lost created this modern mold for a layered mystery with an ensemble cast. Heroes has improved upon it. So what? Isn’t imitation the sincerest form of flattery? Doesn’t competition inspire improvement? Can’t both shows (as well as new ones) draw from each other’s successes and also learn from each other’s mistakes?
Most importantly, lets not forget that Lost is on it’s third season while Heroes is still the attractive newbie. I don’t think anyone will be able to make a fair comparison until both series have run their course, and I for one am not rushing that along.
Right now in my world, they can both live together on my TV.
Comment by badwolf — March 10, 2007 @ 6:39 am
Lindeloff definitely knows his way around hero fiction, He’s in the process of putting out a comic for marvel called Ultimate Hulk Vs. Wolverine and lets just say that the first issue was f-ing incredible. Only problem is, theres some sort of publishing delay. The second issue came out months ago and no one knows when the rest are going to come out.
This is a problem because you cant just write an issue of a comic that has Hulk ripping Wolverine’s torso in half and throwing his legs 4 miles straight up a Himalayan mountain, then leaving Wolvie to claw his way up the snowy peak using only his nose to track his own blood, then not follow up on it, lol.
Anyway, rant aside, Lindeloff obviously knows the deal with superheroes and whats cool about comics, so If I was the head writer for Heroes, I’d pick his brain every chance I could get.
Comment by Jimmy Zero — March 13, 2007 @ 7:45 am
Ugh… Heroes… not only do I typo it as “herpes” all the time but the show isn’t as great as they pretend it is…
I sure hope the lost pple don’t give that crappy show any more ideas, the only reason it’s half way decent is because of the ideas that Lindeloff gave…
Every time I’m watching heroes it feels like I’m being spoon fed their “clues” that are -quote; “Hidden so well” unquote. I feel like a kid in a playground with their parents who are pointing out a puppy…
Every single time a main character on heroes is in danger it’s like watching an old James Bond flick… (He’s never gonna die!!)
After that seriously hysterical (even though it wasn’t supposed to be) cliff-hanger episode (or should I say Peter’s hair “clip” Mohinder “hanger”) I laughed so hard that I’m still not recovered weeks later.
That show is going down in the next season… they are totally going to run out of ideas… the ones they have now are lame so I figure it’s going to be worse as it goes along. The only thing it’s got going for it is the hot guys and Greg Grunberg. LOL
Maybe everyone will appreciate lost again…
Comment by Sara — March 18, 2007 @ 2:51 am
Ugh… Heroes… not only do I typo it as “herpes” all the time but the show isn’t as great as they pretend it is…
I sure hope the lost pple don’t give that crappy show any more ideas, the only reason it’s half way decent is because of the ideas that Lindeloff gave…
Every time I’m watching heroes it feels like I’m being spoon fed their “clues” that are -quote; “Hidden so well” unquote. I feel like a kid in a playground with their parents who are pointing out a puppy…
Every single time a main character on heroes is in danger it’s like watching an old James Bond flick… (He’s never gonna die!!)
After that seriously hysterical (even though it wasn’t supposed to be) cliff-hanger episode (or should I say Peter’s hair “clip” Mohinder “hanger”) I laughed so hard that I’m still not recovered weeks later.
That show is going down in the next season… they are totally going to run out of ideas… the ones they have now are lame so I figure it’s going to be worse as it goes along. The only thing it’s got going for it is the hot guys and Greg Grunberg. LOL
Maybe everyone will appreciate lost again…
–Oh, here is my list of people that can die in heroes–
Claire- seen her, boring story.
“HRG” Mr. Bennett- Hideous, and what a stale actor… the scene where he got shot was so fakey it was hysterical.
Mrs. Bennett- do i even have to say anything?
Mohinder- gahhh!
Sylar- terrible acting… not even scary. So popcorn compared to Michael Emerson- ple-azzze!
Nikki/Jessica- ZZZ… bore/snore.
Her kid “Mikah”- stupid.
DL- Boring.
the composer- does anyone else think that music sucks?
—
Comment by Sara — March 18, 2007 @ 2:58 am
the cars trap mouse
Comment by trap speed cars mouse — April 25, 2007 @ 3:13 am