Klugh and Patchy’s Conversation
Thank’s to my Russian friends in IRC I have the basices of the conversation that went down between Klugh and Patchy:
Mrs. Klugh: Mikheil, you know what to do.
Patchy: …Do we have a chance?
Klugh: We can’t risk it… you know the circumstances.
Patchy: … there IS another way..
Klugh: You know what to do, that is an order.
Patchy: We’ve GOT ANOTHER WAY!
Klugh: Do it Mikheil!
Patchy: I AM SORRY! (Shoots Klugh)
After getting the Russian pages John Locke examined translated into English, a startling possibility arises from Enter 77. What if Patchy was not Patchy at all, but someone learning to become the previous occupant of the hatch?
The clue is in the highlighted portions of the notes. It is as if the author is trying to reassure himself of the facts, and looking for lines to commit to memory to sell his cover. It is not so hard to believe that this might be the case, particularly since Mrs. Klugh seems to be pretty freakin bi-lingual, and I’m guessing this is another of the ‘others’ super powers. Not to mention that he openly admitted to not being a Dharma initiative member, but the ‘rest’ was true. What rest? The part about the purge, or his recalling his years in Afghanistan?
For the rest, keep checking my Enter 77 Easter Egg Roundup piece for BuddyTV. Or check back later for an abbreviated set!
Awesome episode.
Finally some answers to freaking old questions.
I hope next week won
Comment by Ed — March 8, 2007 @ 8:33 am
What the heck happened to this site? Banner ads? Pop-ups? Ick.
Comment by Bob — March 8, 2007 @ 8:58 am
So was Patchy in change of the food drops? if so, why would he care? Unless Calvin wasnt who he said he was. But that doesnt seem to be the case, since we’ve seen him in flashbacks off the island. And how could he have ordered food drops if communcations were down? Why would you even have to order food drops anyway? why not just say ok ever 30 days food will come, why order it?
Comment by Jimyy — March 8, 2007 @ 9:01 am
But what did he say to the cat when he spoke to it in Russian? I think that cat was smokey.
Comment by Aeolian — March 8, 2007 @ 9:04 am
Bob, there is not one shred of additional advertising on this site… so you obviously haven’t been around.
Comment by docarzt — March 8, 2007 @ 9:07 am
my friend and I believe this…
the Dharma Initiative is a vast organization who’s confines were not limited to the island. I believe the island was just one big laboratory the Initiative was interested in because of its natural occurring phenomena’s. The others (an ancient civilization) are not so willing to give up the islands secrets to the initiative. They may be the guardians of the islands many secrets the initiative is looking to use (for some reason or another). What we have here is a classic Light Side vs. Dark Side scenario. Only the writers are keeping us in the dark about who is on what side. This is because the writers want us to figure this out for ourselves. And even when we find out who the good guys and who the bad guys are, who will we choose to align ourselves (the viewer) with? Just something to think about.
Comment by Jimyy — March 8, 2007 @ 9:13 am
Yes, it’s been a few months since I’ve been here. I never got pop-ups before. It’s pretty tacky, Doc.
Comment by Bob — March 8, 2007 @ 9:17 am
Bob,
if you are using firefox, I suggest using the adblock extension. There are IE alternatives as well.
Comment by Mike — March 8, 2007 @ 9:37 am
I thought the only lie he said was that he was part of Dharma. What I gathered… that the others aka the hostiles had a war with the Dharma Folks. Apparently the others have been there a long time. It is THEIR island. The Dharma initiative came to the island for experimental reasons and the inhabitants of that island didn
Comment by downthehatch — March 8, 2007 @ 9:37 am
Weird Bob, well… I have a plugin for firefox that blocks all ads, it works very well. But there are several available. Sorry for the tacky, the site pulls major bandwidth, and it has to be paid for somehow.
Comment by docarzt — March 8, 2007 @ 10:11 am
“I think that Mikhail was there with Klugh to get communications back up and running. Tons of computer parts there. I think prior to turning that key, they had access to the outside as well as communications. Now they don’t. ” —
But why do they need to talk to the outside world if they’ve been there for a very, very , very long time? How did they talk to the outside world before they took over Dharma’s stations? or get Ethan back and forth without Dharm’s Sub? If they’ve been there longer then Dharma, then shouldnt they be used to not talking to the outside world? whats the need to fix somethings u didnt need before?
Comment by Jimyy — March 8, 2007 @ 10:16 am
Jump in here anytime, guys/doc.
Comment by Jimyy — March 8, 2007 @ 10:23 am
Someone needs to get a screencap of the shelves in the basement of the Flame to compare to the shelves behind Marvin Candle on the video.
Was this filmed/taped at the Flame?
Comment by Rain — March 8, 2007 @ 10:26 am
Just an idea I had today: What if Dr. Marvin Candle is the mysterious Jacob?
Comment by Chad — March 8, 2007 @ 10:41 am
But why do they need to talk to the outside world if they’ve been there for a very, very , very long time?
Because they’re not self-sufficient and need supplies from time to time. They enjoy a hell of a lot of modern conveniences and “need” things beyond what the DHARMA supply drops offer.
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 8, 2007 @ 10:48 am
Maybe the others have become accustomed to a certain quality of life after killing or absorbing the members of the Dharma Initiative and taking over their facilities.
The question that gets me is, if the others were communicating with the outside world, who were they actually talking to?
Comment by Jimmy Zero — March 8, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Another question. Why hide the interface(?) in a chess game that can only be accessed after you beat it? If I’m a Dharma member and the others attack my bldg, I would be expected to sit down and beat a computer at chess before being able to get word out and call for backup?
Comment by Jimmy Zero — March 8, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Here’s a theory:
It seems that the plan with Dharma was to experiment with the “hostiles” all along as the candle/chess computer/building wired with C4 tells us. Possibly Similar to the Hanso foundations work in Sri Lanka. I think Ben was originally a “Hostile” probably a descendant of survivors of the black rock ship. The Hostiles invaded the Dharma stations (the purge) and ruled over them. Then in the 1990’s the Hanso foundation, in an attempt to salvage what was left of the research they spent so much money sent people back to the island to reclaim the Dharma stations and created the fake “Mittelos” bioscience to bring researchers. But since the island is so isolated, the Hanso foundation has no way of knowing that a hostile (Ben) is actually still in charge. Of course there is still some secret here that Ben’s people are hiding. Ethan, was one of the first sent to the island via Mittelos, quickly learned this secret or was brainwashed by Ben. This secret or secrets are The reason why Ms. Klugh told Mikael to kill her. What is the secret? Any guesses?
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — March 8, 2007 @ 11:15 am
The Initiative may have failed but it could be called something else and is now being led by someone within the Hanso Foundation, the major financial supporter of the initial Initiative.
Therefor, they would have to be able to travel off and on the island for new recruits, like Juliet.
What if the Dharma folks initially hit upon an idea so amazing that the greed of the Hanso foundation took over and now they’re running the island?
The “hostiles” or Others as we’ve come to know them believe they are doing GOOD work, possibly curing a disease, let’s say.
Well what if the Hanso foundation is taking that research and using it to create some diabolical disease or something to unleash on the world and they have the only cure, which is being popoduced on the island?
Think of that silly ass Mission Impossible 2 plot. Create a disease with a cure only you know about. Disperse the disease and start selling the cure. Bingo! More money…
I think this was touched on in the LOST experience. Mittelwerk was a high ranking official in the Hanso Foundation. Mittelos BioScience?
Comment by El Prez — March 8, 2007 @ 11:22 am
I kind of think Mikhail was behind the c4 explosives set around the building. At one point during the ep, he pokes his head through the doorway of the room locke is in, sees him playing the game, and a satisfied smirk sort of flits across his face.
I took it as Mikhail seeing that Locke was being true to his nature and trying to beat the game, something the others may have gleaned after seeing the determined way he pushed the button in the hatch. So maybe the whole c4 thing was a trap set specifically for Locke.
Alternately, maybe Mikhail just knew there was something about the chess game, but couldnt ever beat it because hes an other and possibly has never been taught the rules of chess. So when he saw Locke beating it, he was stoked because he would finally get something out of the computer.
Most likely, neither theory is even close to the mark.
Lost makes me want to shoot myself in the head sometimes.
Comment by Jimmy Zero — March 8, 2007 @ 11:24 am
Since the recordings of Marvin Candle on the computer are old and he mentions the hostiles, I think we can assume that the computer and the C4 were installed around the same time. Probably when the flame was built. I’m guessing around 1980. Also, those instruction manuals for Dharma procedures did not look very old at all.
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — March 8, 2007 @ 11:28 am
to Charlie Lesoine: Yes, but how can we be sure that Mikhail didnt wire the c4 to the computer himself? If the Others somehow knew that Locke and company were coming, He could have figured out what circuit to wire the detonator into, fully knowing that the computer would draw Lockes attention like a moth to flame. What would be the point of wiring your own compound for destruction? Unless…it was done in the event of an Others attack as a way of destroying records, I guess I could maybe see that.
But the others DID attack, and the bldg is still standing.
Comment by Jimmy Zero — March 8, 2007 @ 11:34 am
Maybe the hippie Dharma initiative knew about the hostiles but werent willing to go through with the evil experiments the HANSO foundation wanted them to do on them, so the HANSO foundation had to take things into it’s own hands. The Dharma initiative probably rebelled against HANSO but I’m not sure if that happened before or after Ben and the hostiles integrated with them.
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — March 8, 2007 @ 11:39 am
I think we can all agree that C4 wired to a computer chess game that can only be activated after beating it is a piss poor security device. But the episode showed no sign that Locke was even thinking very hard when he won, so maybe it was a fake chess game and Mikhail was egging him on because he knew they would find all those juicy Dharma/HANSO docs and he needed the place to blow.
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — March 8, 2007 @ 11:49 am
I believe that Locke has yet again fulfilled the qualifications of yet another station. By breaking the computer in the Swan station, Des had no choice but to turn the key, without Locke doing what he did, that event wouldnt of took place… And now, when Locke beat the chess game, he completed another task, at least now it makes sense that the station was called “The Flame” because it was set a blaze by Locke, it was meant to blow up.. dont know why tho o_0
Comment by Jimyy — March 8, 2007 @ 11:49 am
I believe that Locke has yet again fulfilled the qualifications of yet another station. By breaking the computer in the Swan station, Des had no choice but to turn the key, without Locke doing what he did, that event wouldnt of took place… And now, when Locke beat the chess game, he completed another task, at least now it makes sense that the station was called “The Flame” because it was set a blaze by Locke, it was meant to blow up.. dont know why tho o_0
Comment by Jimyy — March 8, 2007 @ 11:54 am
I agree Jimyy. I believe Locke was supposed to blow that place up. Maybe he was the only one that could beat the game, or maybe it was a fake game set up for him. I do believe the name “the flame” was no coincidence. Good point about the hatch computer also. Maybe the hostiles (the others) are trying to lose all communication to the outside world. When Walt says, “Don’t push the button, the button is bad,” he wants that energy released, which will lead to their rescue. I’m not sure that the others ever knew what was in “the swan,” so perhaps Walt knew of the fail safe while the others did not. Another possibility is that the others are trying to save the world, and they know the success of the DHARMA innitiative will destroy it. Lot’s of possibilities, but I think we can all agree that while this episode poses more questions, it also brings us closer to answers.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 8, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
I’m convinced that Locke is on the island to retsore it back to it’s “original state”- Pre Dharma. He’s was responsible for the Swan blowing up. He blew up the Flame(which by the way, thankfully he wasn’t still sitting there trying to surf the internet). In essence he’s fulfilling the Dharma Initiative protocol.
Did you see how happy he was to have won something? I think with his role playing background, he’s ultimately in the game of his life. Next level: Othersville.
Comment by El Prez — March 8, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
So guys, we learned that the others went to war with the dharma guys. The others were living on the island for a long long time before the dharma people came in.
But Ethan was an other and he recruited Juliet on the outside world to work on the island, most likely on the medical station where they were held Claire for a while. So dharma is not behind the others, who the hell is?
Was the purge the incident Marvin Candle mentioned on the swan training video? And how come the others never took the swan station where there were a huge reactor of some sort? Where is the other radio tower where Danielle recorded her message on? And is locke
Comment by Ed — March 8, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Why is Dharma still dropping food? Are we to believe that they have no contact with anyone on the island, yet they continue to make periodic drops?
Comment by Bob — March 8, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
Why did Klugh and Patchy wanted to die? Afraid Sayed would get answers anyway?
Comment by Tom — March 8, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
The show is getting so tired. I’m starting to think the writers have lost the cohesive vision they began with. Each episode, at this point, is merely “filler”.
Having Miss Klugh demand to be killed last night was the stupidest most over the top thing ever. The show is really losing appeal. To put it the way another blog site did “There are no more TiVo moments”. Nothing really jumps out for re-examination anymore.
I don’t know if anyone has noticed, but, even Doc’s easter eggs are getting smaller and smaller… because there really is nothing to look at. I love Doc & I love this site- I really hope the show begins to deserve the time and attention that Doc puts into it again soon.
I know some will disagree with me, but it’s my opinion.
Comment by liz — March 8, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Liz- you are SO right! We all disagree with you….
Comment by El Prez — March 8, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
Liz, you’ve already said it’s a worthless show, so why don’t you save your breath and shove off already?
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 8, 2007 @ 9:54 pm
Guys, Sayid said that the barracks he found on the map had energy and water storage capable to support an entire community. I took a look at the beginning of ep 3×01 were we have a top view of the other’s village. It looks to me that they have like 20 houses on that village tops and they don�t look like barracks to me. I wonder if that is the same place Sayid is talking about or is it somewhere else. Also I don�t see any fences around that village.
Comment by Ed — March 9, 2007 @ 3:51 am
It seems the big plot point we should take from this episode is that DHARMA/Hanso and Mittelos are not in cahoots with the others. I think most of us thought they were working together. So now we have two possibilities. One is that the ancient island civilization is a seperate group we have not seen yet. The second (and most likely) is that the others are the ancient civilation, and the purge was them getting rid of DHARMA and taking in a few of them for their own purposes. So now we’re back to our main theme of science (DHARMA) and faith (the others). It seems the others are some sort of controllers of fate, while DHARMA was trying to change our fate (Valenzetti equation). It looks like we’re leading towards a Losties vs. the others showdown. It still remains to be seen whose light and whos dark. The last two episodes have really given us a lot of insight.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 8:20 am
Cap - couldnt agree more. It’s just a matter of whos who, who are the bad and who are u good? but ur right on. My friend and I think the same thing.
Comment by Jimyy — March 9, 2007 @ 9:52 am
But Dharma isn
Comment by Ed — March 9, 2007 @ 11:27 am
I believe Penny is trying to find the island (which I now believe is deep within the Himilayas). Everyone assumed she was searching for Des, but the arctic dudes clearly said, “I think we’ve found IT” not “HIM.” She has probably taken over for daddy douchbag.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
Cap, don’t forget the following:
-the purge was (at least by Patchy’s claims) initiated by DHARMA against the “hostiles”, not the other way around. I guess the big question here would actually be why the DHARMA folks chose to call these people “hostiles” in the first place and made them to be perceived as some sort of enemy of DHARMA.
-when Ben was captive (as Henry), he muttered “we’re scientists” before he attacked Locke. Between this, the claims that they only go to the Hydra island when they “have to work”, and their seeming need for gathering medical personnel through the Mittelos front, they’re clearly up to something beyond just living their their lives in their own special community.
I’m not suggesting I have any answers, but these are crucial points for theory-happy individuals such as yourself to consider, and I mean that in the best kind of way.
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 9, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
You make good points Lennox. I’m thinking it’s possible that these people are DHARMA and the purge was to get rid of the “hostiles.” This would mean the so called hostiles will be a third group (Lostaways, The Others, and The Hostiles). Lots of possibilities (as usual).
Comment by cap10tripps — March 9, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Who first used the term hostile?
Comment by me — March 9, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
The first use of the term in the episodic chronology was by Desmond in the season 2 finale…I believe the line was something to the effect of “…going to see the hostiles?”; this was said when Sayid inquired about borrowing Desmond’s boat.
However, in the linear chronology (that is, putting flashbacks and episodes in the correct linear order…though this may change given all the black hole stuff, so take warning!), the first mention was by Kelvin in Desmond’s first flashback. I can’t recall the line but I need a break (today’s a longer work day than usual) and so I’ll confirm this in a moment.
Note that I’m discounting Marvin Candle’s use of the term in his footage from “Enter 77″, because we don’t know specifically when its from. Judging from his prosthetic hand and attire, we can assume that this was probably shot at around the same time as the Swan film or at some point thereafter…so supposedly, 1980 or a bit later. But at this point, I’m hesitant to believe those copyright dates, especially considering that the Pearl film is from around the same time and the two use separate scores with drastically different-sounding synthesizers.
Either way, it does indeed seem like the term originated from within DHARMA. It’s doubtful that the Others would call themselves hostiles, save for maybe a ruse ala Mikhail’s.
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 9, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Correction on the exchange between Desmond and Sayid:
D: Off to see the hostiles, are ye?
S: The what?
Desmond doesn’t explain (he’s wasted).
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 9, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
Errrnt. Sorry. He responds as follows:
D: Ignorance is bliss!
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 9, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
Kelvin’s first on-screen mention of the hostiles occurs during the scene where he and Desmond fake a lockdown to add to the blastdoor map, and Kelvin explains about Radzinsky’s suicide:
D: Well, if you don’t want me to go crazy, next time, let me go out.
K: You want to go out there with the quarantine and the hostiles?
Desmond and Kelvin then have a quick argument about Desmond’s survival skills and why Desmond got kicked out of the British army for not following orders, and says that he himself left the US army because men followed his orders, and then after he joined the DHARMA initiative. That’s sort of interesting considering Mikhail’s story about having been involved in too much violence in the Russian army and then having joined up with DHARMA to try to do some good in the world…does it mean that a lot of DHARMA recruits were ex-military? Could this be what led to the decision to carry out the purge operation?
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 9, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that DHARMA did the purging. This means “the hostiles” were probably a way for DHARMA to control its subjects. They may have “purged” the original inhabitants (which means there’s probably still at least one person left), so we would see other others.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 10, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Patchy’s account is that DHARMA staff initiated war on the hostiles and called it “the purge”. If this is true, the overt intention was to rid the island of the hostiles. But I like your idea of the folks behind DHARMA ultimately somehow having control and staging things in such an order to provoke the DHARMA staff, in actuality the test subjects, into going so far as to consider declaring war on the hostiles.
Increasingly, I’m beginning to wonder just *what* the real intention behind DHARMA was. The more I think about it, the more I think that *all* the orientation films are lying in regard to DHARMA’s true purpose.
Considering the Alvar Hanso’s ancestor found this crazy island, could DHARMA have been a cover for recruiting Others, much as Mittelos seems to have been recently?
Yes, I’m aware that this conflicts against my recent theory proposed in the thread for the super-spoilery Par Avion clip. But there are still quite a few variables to be considered, and so multiple theories are almost necessary.
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 10, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Does anyone have a link to or could possibly post what Patchy says to the cat in Russian?
Comment by Katie — March 10, 2007 @ 8:34 pm
The second part of Russian writing on the piece of paper says “I have forgotten so much about Afghanistan”. And the lady’s Russian is not so good. She obviously memorized the lines and does not speak Russian. The way she says “shto delat” should be “dyelat”, not just “delat”. This is a common problem for American learners of Russian.
The Arabic in this show is weird as well. Sayid’s Arabic is bad. The other chef who tells Sayid that someone wants to see him mixes Modern Standard Arabic with a little bit of dialect. Arabs don’t say what he did, which is “huwwa yuriid yishoofak” - (he) wants to see you. The “yuriid” (he wants)part is completely formal and would never NEVER be said in that type of situation. I love Lost, I just wish they would work on their foreign language use.
It’s funny that Russian and Arabic happen to be the two foreign languages I know best! How random!
Thanks to all for their comments
Comment by Applied Linguist — March 10, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
It’s funny that Russian and Arabic happen to be the two foreign languages I know best! How random!
Yes, isn’t it? Lucky we aren’t stranded on a mysterious island, or we’d all suddenly become extremely suspicious of you and your coincidentally convenient skills…
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 10, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
Hey everyone, i am new to this place. I think that Dharma was doing experiments on people, i saw a video that this girl made ( apperantly Alvar Hanso’s daughter), this video was a footage from Sri Lanka, there was a doctor who was explaining to a group of doc’s or students that they will be doing experiments on people( one of the students was questioning it as to why would they wanna do this to innocent people). His anwser was that they have to do it now so that it benefits them later on. i think that maybe the black rock(which is said to be a slave or prisoner ship as well as final resting place of Alvar Hanso)was sent here with experimentees. i think something went wrong and the experimentees (others) battled the Dharma Employees. They won! so this does make sense that they (others) might be the good ones, the question is what were they doing to these people? I think they were injecting them with certain meds to make them change their traits! the mission of the Dharma is to let the Main Dharma ( i guess in the U.S somwhere) know when they have found the solution to save the world. The Valenzetti equation which was taken into Alvar Hanso’s hands after the U.N ignored, was experimented by setting up an operation on an island containing 6 main hatches, each one representin a #. The main challenge and mission is to change the core numerical environmental and human factors. in some way they have to rearrange the #. obviously not the hatches, but either the sequence of the # or or just change the # totally to a different set. Also when it said environmental factors i realized that the Polar Bear was there because there was questions as to how will certain animals survive Global worming? well in order to find the anwser you would have to test it. this is why the bear was put on the island, so that it there is a major climate change like hot places becoming cold and vise versa then how would adapted animals survive. i also found that on the Island map that Loke saw on the wall when his legs got caught, there is a magneticcal force break on the island in the NORHT/East direction, all the hatches are connected except for two in the right hand corner, this is where the Others were getting their communication across to the outside world. there is latin writing when treanslated the writing in that corner says ” i think we are on the same wavelenght” this would clearify this theory i have. i just need someone to talk to about this damn show because it is driving me crazy, all my friends are tired of me talking about it. also my co-workers are tired of it, i have no one, no one to poison their mind with this mystery show, if you think i have something call me 647-989-2752 or 416-798-2276 lidia
ps, i know alot more but no time am at work.
Comment by LIDIA — March 13, 2007 @ 10:09 am
LIDIA, this is the place to poison minds with theories and thoughts. On behalf of us other LOSTaholics, welcome. A point of advice though… You probably shouldn’t post your phone #. Some creepy guys like me and my bro El Prez could use it for all the wrong reasons.
Comment by cap10tripps — March 14, 2007 @ 3:37 pm