Doc Points at Zap2it and Laughs
Zap2it is the latest Media outlet to adopt the purely Anti-LOST position, as evidenced by its fact-afflicted article "Genre Producers Distance Themselves from LOST". The article is jab after jab at LOST’s apparent inability to tell its story, an inability I firmly refuse to acknowledge. I’ve used my Novel analogy over and over again, but once more with feeling: LOST is to be watched like a novel is to be read. If we are a third, or two thirds through, we know as much as we need to know… enough to keep us turning the pages.
The first mistake they make is comparing Jericho to LOST. Jericho is a good show, I watch it… occasionally. In terms of informing the viewer, yeah it progresses nicely. It is the least ‘Lost’ like of the serialized dramas. In terms of ratings and acclaim, it is nowhere near LOST even in its weakened state.
The obvious comparison, and the one I personally am tired of hearing about, is Heroes. I love heroes. I watch it every week. I do not, however, see it as an improvement over the LOST formula as much a well polished pastiche. You can, in the short term, improve on perfection, or at least give the impression that you have. The big question for me, as a Heroes fan, is can they keep this pace up? Regardless of how breathless the show becomes with its rapid fire disclosures, it is still subject to the same pitfall as LOST, time. Perhaps even more so. If Heroes answers too many of its big questions, eventually it will be grasping to keep itself interesting.
The problem is, these shows are new. What LOST has proven is it can keep a hell of a lot of people interested in a complex story that demands a huge investment of interest from the viewers. It has boiled down to a hard core of viewers which is larger than Jericho’s audience, and just shy of Heroes, but it started out in a much higher place. Will these shows continue to thrill for three straight seasons? Will three seasons of answers every episode both weaken the impact, and eventually marginalize all the information? After all, if it comes out in a steady stream, just how much will the viewers and writers alike have to keep track of? Imagine how daunting that task will be.
"Giving answers" is a gimmic here. These shows are cashing in on LOST’s apparent weakness, pandering to its critics, courting its viewers with the equivalent of televised snake oil guaranteed to cure an illness that doesn’t even exist.
The true fault with articles like this, in my opinion, is the mindless buy-in from the establishment to the "LOST SUCKS" mantra that these shows are beaming to the masses in big hypnotic waves.
My theory is that the marketing folks behind certain ‘other’ shows, have adapted a Svengali tactic of tricking audiences into thinking that LOST is the benchmark for how to do it wrong, when in fact it is the most borrowed from formula going. In three seasons, these freshman shows that rely on LOST for their vascular genetics will be suffering some of the same sort of backlash that LOST is suffering now. The only difference is, none of them was able to be first, because LOST beat them to it, and when LOST is finished, the arguments over its exposition technique will all be moot and the series will be judged for its story, a strange tale of redemption, richly textured with intellectual tenants and literary references, told at a pace that defied its critics, and beloved by millions as the progenitor of the renaissance of excitement, drama, heroes, and heroines, and wonder in television. Everything else will merely be ‘what came after’. Better recipes are merely a matter of taste, there can only be one crucible.
While I like both Heroes and Jericho, they only have the staying power for 2 seasons.
I think Lost doesn’t have 2 more seasons. If we are in the middle of a book, I would skip to the final chapter and then put in on the book shelf.
Shows such as these have a limited shelf life. It is better to go out on a high note, then linger painfully.
Comment by BlackrockBob — March 6, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Yes and no matter how impressive a start either has, they pale in comparison to LOST’s freshman year. But does Zap2it acknowledge that? NO!
Comment by docarzt — March 6, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
I absoultely agree with you. I discuss each of these shows on other boards. I recently got an email as to why I have stopped with the LOST threads on Thursdays, I simply said that I was tired of defending the show and not discussing it. I am also tired of the Hero discussions that are riddled with digs to LOST.
Like you, I like Heroes…alot! However, as good as Heroes is with plot development, it lacks in dialogue (which is very comic bookish). As good as it is in character development, it lacks with decent acting (some are better than others). There are very few underlying themes, iconinc images, and references beyond the show that make it worthy of multiple viewings or even lengthy discussions. What I find amusing is that while Heroes fans are sticking out tounges at LOST, the writers and producers are simply tipping their hat.
Answers are nice. But doesn’t most good science fiction leave much open to interpretation? 2001 & Blade Runner, probably 2 of the best SCi-Fi pics out there, leave ALOT to imagination and interpretation. LOST is Science Fiction (and good science fiction at that), and I think MANY forget that. LOST is “complicated” and complex and I think that is what is it’s charm and undoing. Two reasons I can think of for all this backlash is it’s on ABC and not on the Sci Fi channel. And it might almost be the worng medium for the story, which probably fleshes out better in a book or a movie.
When all is said and done, LOST will be looked at fondly and will be the subject of much discussion when it’s done. You could even do a collage thesis on it, there’s that much to it.
Comment by downthehatch — March 6, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
I have to say, If it wasn’t for LOST, we’d never even see Heroes nor Jerhico.
Comment by downthehatch — March 6, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
I agree with the above mentioned article (Doc Points…) in all respects but one. The show is not in a weakened state. I thought last weeks episode, “TTID”, was one of the best this season. I don’t need reveals every week for me to be interested in the show. I love the mystery of the island, but the show is not about the island. “LOST” is about the people (characters) on the island. Last weeks episode proved that for me. As far as I am concerned “Heroes” has not one engaging character, the plot is actually too contrived and sometimes for me a little slow. I also “like” the show, but it is no “LOST.” Forget the critics and focus on how much you (the LOST fan) love the show and it will continue for as long as you want it to.
Comment by munkawitz — March 6, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Anybody bitching about Lost that’s producing other genre programs is just pissed off that their work doesn’t have a contract assuring that they get a nice long time to tell a whole story with no real risk of cancellation, a gargantuan budget, and the ability to continually get featured articles in national mainstream publications.
Do people have a right to be pissed that this season has, so far, not exactly been as “action/adventure” as the producers promised us? Sure. OTOH, it looks like things finally *are* going to step up this week, and if the show’s got a chance to redeem itself, it’s now: for the next ten-plus weeks, we might just be getting a lot of balls-to-the-wall action/adventure with real-stakes cliffhangers on the end.
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 6, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Don’t people understand that the show will be OVER once all the questions get answered? I thought we watched the show because we first genuinely liked it, and as a bonus obtained answers to the many questions. As some people alluded to, Lost is essentially an intellectual show. Allusions to different literary works etc. This thus makes for a complex understanding that I’m sure many cannot handle, thus the mud-slinging begins. The problem isn’t with the show, but merely with its audience and society as a whole. Society wants things quick and easy, something a show with the caliber Lost has is not geared towards. Maybe Lost is just too far ahead of its viewers…
Comment by Kevin — March 6, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
I don’t think that the literary and cultural allusions get in the way of anybody watching the show, Kevin. There’s a whole lot of “neat little stuff” along those lines that’s there if you catch it or care to follow up on it, but none of its crucial to the story -it’s all hung on there pretty transparently. Fact is, some people just plain want instant gratification. There haven’t been a whole lot of self-contained story arcs since season one, but there has been a lot of slow-build layering of small details to help establish the illusion of depth necessary to make the slowly-unraveled backstory believable. A lot of folks would be happy if each and every episode were vaguely the same and ended with a shitty heart-warming montage of the losties snuggling up together at sunset with sappy music playing. Tough titty for them, it’s not that kind of show anymore.
Comment by Richard Lennox — March 6, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
Kevin, why would the show be over if the questions are answered? This, I think, is the most insulting thing you can say about writers, short of “You suck.” Why? It implies that once they tell us what’s going on in regards to the island or the Others, the writers have no idea what to do from there. Those of us frustrated enough to stop watching Lost when it airs live don’t want an episode explaining EVERYTHING - we want an episode explaining ANYTHING beyond “OMG! JACK HAS TATTOOS!” Some explanations of substance.
Lost Season 3 could learn a lot from Heroes Season 1 or Jericho Season 1 in that way. Not everything spelled out, but let the story evolve beyond a worthless van or worthless tattoos. Explore the mythology, don’t just make it up as you go.
Comment by icy_one — March 6, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
i agree a lot with everything everyone has said above but Lost isnt so Original that everyone makes it out to be it owes a lot to previous shows, one that comes to mind is the Prisoner!
Dont get me wrong i love it and think to it is highly original in its conception! but like one poster said above if we treat it as an anthology like Doc Artz said and were supposedly a third way through i would just skip to the end chapter now!
One way or another one thing is for sure without a single doubt and that is whatever the end result is when the series ends and all the revelations are out two things will be FACT
1) on the whole i would say the majority will not be happy with the explanation as to whatever lost was because on the whole past experiences with shows like these that deal with big end game revealtions never fully satisfy everyone and the majority will still be asking questions i hope to god im not one of them! Believe me i dont want to be!
and 2) That theyve given themselves so many big mysteries , medium mysteries , small mysteries and tiny mysteries ( these ones are irrelevant ones that really anal people will want awnsered!) to unravel and explain that in the end they will be so many unawnsered questions.
In essence theyve dug themselves an unbelievable hole! in the mystery department if you dont believe me just go over to http://lostmysteries.blogspot.com/ and see for yourself how many unawnsered mysteries they are still!
Comment by anonymous — March 6, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
It seems anonymous was hangin with Desmond when he turned the failsafe. Must be nice to see the future. Too bad it’s so unsatisfying. I guess I’ll just stop watching my favorite show of all time. Thanks for the heads up.
I will say this yet again. To the complainers who are truly frustrated fans, sit back, enjoy the ride, and know that when all is said and done you (the fan) will have taken part in television history. I know a lot of you guys are turning towards shows like Heroes (which is a good show, and obviously influenced by LOST) because of their quicker revelations. The all encompassing LOST central plot may move excruciatingly slow to you, but understand it for what it is, a ground breaking show that will stimulate your brain like no other show ever has (and may never will again). This is a “show me now” land, but try and realize the benefits of this grand scheme train of thought. To me it’s these discussions that really open doorways that most other things do not. I know this sort of thing is not for everyone, but if you are truly a fan relax. You will have your answers my friend…
Comment by cap10tripps — March 6, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
AWESOME ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!!
VERY, VERY, VERY WELL SAID!!
Seriously…very nice.
Comment by Joe D. — March 6, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
Bravo! Very well put, DocArzt. Thanks for giving such an eloquent and concise voice to us Lost fans.
Comment by mj — March 6, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
The article is jab after jab at LOST’s apparent inability to tell its story
LOST is telling its story, it’s just that these days a lot of people don’t seem to know what it means to tell a story.
I honestly think that a lot of discontented ‘fans’ were in love with just the (early to mid) first season. Any change from there, any new question or turn or character, is interpreted as too negative or as a sign that the writers have lost their sense of direction.
So for the benefit of these ‘fans’, just repeat the first season until they tire of watching it, then throw in a finale which answers all the questions and mysteries and wraps up the show. Tell them this is LOST.
Meanwhile, secretly broadcast the real LOST to people who really enjoy the show through all its changes and turns and new questions, and let it run until its natural and true end.
The end result will be that people who really like LOST will be satisfied and perhaps even awed, while people who loved the first few episodes of the first season (until numbers, deaths of beautiful people, and Others became involved) will inevitably be dissatisfied with their quickie canned answers. At least they won’t have been trashing the real LOST.
Comment by Lance — March 6, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Once again, we’re found defending the integrity of this great show. I think it’s time to lay these things to rest. If LOST is on the verge of cancellation, then I’ll raise my sword to protect it. OH, how I long for the days of time travel and black hole theories!!! Anything besides giving the naysayers more reason to bitch and moan.
I like Heroes. I like 24. I’ve never seen Jericho but I’ve always felt that Skeet Ulrich was a poor man’s Johnny Depp, which ain’t so bad. The point is that serialized programming, GOOD serialized programming, is being run off, in favor of poorly concieved unscripted television shows, which cater to the mindless. Mindless equals ratings, ratings equal money for the networks. It’s free TV folks…Let’s be thankful for what we have, considering what could be on it’s place.
I will mourn for LOST when it’s gone but I refuse to take part in any more mourning while it’s still on…..Who’s with me?
Doc-Run another poll asking people if they want to talk theory or ratings? Let’s get back to analyzing the minute details that could lead us to the answers….that’s way more fun….
Comment by El Prez — March 6, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
doc—-another well written article that I’m sure will keep you at the top of the ‘lost insider’ track with the writers. I’m sure they love these pieces and I have to hand it to you for being a complete sell-out. very well written though, but lacking in any real substance. when will this comment get deleted?
Comment by steve — March 6, 2007 @ 8:01 pm
This is about a smear campaign more than anything. Lost is going to make mistakes and so will every other show ever made. What I don’t like about these troubling times is certain groups within the media feel compelled to flex what little muscle they have and try to create negative press from a show that is still doings it’s job. It really bothers me when I come online and read a lot of meaningless articles that have as much weight as a high school popularity contest. It’s ridiculous and unfair. There is no use in generating a campaign to have a television show erased. No show deserves that. Why perpetuate bad ratings with negative press, let the show itself do that. It’s just makes me sad, because I know a lot of mindless people who would abandon something just because someone else told them too, and it had nothing to with how they felt at all.
I want to thank the Doc for bringing this subject forward because I feel it’s important.
I love LOST, we all must because we are here now reading what he and I have to say. I guess the only thing I have to ad is… It’s called a leap of faith people.
Comment by skaught — March 6, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
Hello!JoaoMealha from Portugal here.I have been going to this site for a long time now but never posted.Until now…
You captured EXACTLY my feelings about the show and its detractors.Congratulations for a great post and a great site.You’re the man!
Comment by JoaoMealha — March 6, 2007 @ 8:16 pm
Sorry Steve, I will not grant you martyrdom. But, you are wrong, by the way. I am not an ‘insider’, nor do I express my opinions because I want to be. If I didn’t love Lost, this site wouldn’t exist, period. And I apologize if posts like this detract from the site experience folks are looking for. I have just had enough of the media pissing on LOST. Fact is, these shows have failed to obtain the first season buzz and ratings that LOST did. So for them to “distance themselves” is laughable, and worthy of an opposing point of view. But if you think I am a sycophant, you have no sense of the history of this site. I’ve spent as much time flogging the show as I have praising it.
Comment by docarzt — March 6, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
Mr. Doc, you said it all…awesome!
Comment by me — March 6, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Lost, as the producers have said is a character based show, so first and foremost it is the characters that are the most important aspect of the show. Yeah we have a labrynthian plot arc that has been going for three years and will hopefully go on for another two, and yeah it is also very important. But what the hell is a plot if you don’t have a character to care about. It becomes nothing more than a two dimensional piece of crap. Lost wouldn’t be half as interesting if we didn’t have all the character moments. Sometimes I think that the character moments come at really frustrating times, but that merely shows how great the writers are that they leave you wanting more.
Heroes is awesome, i love it. Not really into the characters at the moment except maybe Hiro, but he is a comic geek who gets powers, now if the core audience of this show can’t relate to that then who the hell is watching this show. Heroes, although has characters that are slowly developing, it is more focused on its plot. Its prob best to look at Heroes like you would at 24 and Prison Break… more 24 though, that it will be a pretty much self contained story that lasts for a season with spill over in to the new season with a new story. I think I read somewhere that Peter’s character is the Jack Bauer of Heroes.
Plus, Heroes is a completely different show to Lost. Lost is a different beast altogether. Lost is awesome, if you can’t deal with that get off the pot dude!
Comment by signify — March 6, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
although heroes has been answering a lot of questions i agree it cant be compared to lost as the premise is completely different. they have the choice of bringing in a whole new roster of character next season, a whole new threat or bad guy. lost is set on an island. the writers dont have the luxury of adding a new main threat or a whole heap of new characters. they are limited by the setting. i think heroes is a great show, but i am really questioning whether the second season will be as good as the first after hearing the creators plan to introduce a whole new load of heroes as the focus of next season. also i agree with the point made about heroes being weak on dialogue, some of the scenes between nikki and micah and claire and her father are so cheesy i feel like vomitting. its a little too overly emotional at times and very unrealistic in its dialogue.
Comment by joel — March 7, 2007 @ 3:34 am
What is most interesting is that in this day and age of reality tv and procedurals is that shows like Lost, Heroes, and Jericho are able to exist on network television. As you clearly pointed out, Heroes and Jericho exist because of Lost, not in spite of it. And as you hint at, where will Heroes and Jericho be in season 2 when the newness has worn off and they must come up with new twists and mysteries to answer? I like both shows very much, but neither one of them has a current plotline that I’m willing to wait another season to discover while they answer current plotlines. For example, the Claire/Jack connection hinted at last season being answered this season only leads to another question: Will Jack and Claire ever find out their siblings? And if they do, what then? You know what that is? That’s a season 4 episode. Why? Because we still have questions involving at least 12 other characters (most likely more) that are more pressing. And THAT’s not even counting the mysteries about the Island that trickle through to us (like the recent hinting of a third group of island citizens, the “other others”). The media can bash away all it likes. At 10pm tonight I’m watching Lost.
Comment by Merlboroman — March 7, 2007 @ 7:56 am
blah blah blah
Comment by AnotherOther — March 7, 2007 @ 8:26 am
I agree with you doc, I watch both Heroes and Jericho and I like both shows but they are nothing compared to LOST. In fact, they both have borrowed very heavily from LOST’s style. They will both be dealing with the same critisim LOST is dealing with now if they make it to season 3. I personally think people are worrying too much about “the answers” if we had all the answers LOST would not be as mind blowing and intriguing as it is. I like the pace that LOST is going. I really hope that people will stop criticizing LOST and just enjoy it. I’m so sick of hearing people slam it all the time!
Comment by Shiloh — March 7, 2007 @ 10:02 am
You hit the nail on the head dude. I feel like if I watch Heroes, I’m cheating on my true love, Lost. Why is it that you can’t enjoy both shows? And Jericho’s storyline is good, but I feel like I’m watching a damn soap opera.
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