LOST - Are the others Scientologists?
The symbol that Juliet was branded with was very similar to the cross of Scientology, turned upside down. Inverted crosses came about with St. Peter’s crucifixion. He did not feel worthy of being crucified under the same cross as his messiah. It has since come to symbolize ‘unworthiness’ and as a mark of deep respect for your superiors.
Could the others be Scientologists? And if so, didn’t LOST’s producers learn anything from South Park?
STAY TUNED FOR MORE EASTER EGGS SOON!
Haha, nice find Jon. So does this mean that Jacob is really Xenu? Since JJ Abrams and Tom Cruise are friends, maybe Mr.Cruise could do a guest appearance as “Jacob”, hehe.
Seriously though, I don’t think it has anything to do with Scientology, it’s probably just a coincidence.
Comment by Andreas — February 22, 2007 @ 6:50 am
I am sad to say that last nights episode was extremely disappointed compared to last weeks episode. The two episodes could have traded places and everything would be fine, but to drop a bomb like Time Travel in Desmonds episode only to have the following episode slightly deal with body markings and their meanings and being out of place; was a very big disappointment. That episode was a good character story but it seemed forced in the current story line. Overall, it was lacking and the producers know it. Only so many people will deal with this stuff for so long before they get bored and switch to something else permanently. Now they need to get the momentum back and bring the fans back or it is doomed.
Comment by Brinson — February 22, 2007 @ 6:54 am
Hopefully people get my cheekiness here… I highly doubt it is indeed the Scientology cross. However, since having Juliet’s departure time come too close to 9/11 for comfort, you really have to wonder where the controversy oversight is here…
Comment by docarzt — February 22, 2007 @ 7:08 am
I really like the last episode… I can understand why people say it wasn’t as good as Flashes, but to be fair Flashes was one of my favourite episodes - Desmond is the best character in it! I love him as much as one hetrosexual man can love another…
I thought that the Cindy bit was one of the best and most understated moments on Lost - Its been hinted that there are two groups of ‘Others’ and I almost feel this has confirmed it.
My own personal theory is that these people with Cindy are somehow out of the Time frame of the the rest of the people on the island and somehow phase-shifted out of alighnment somehow - they must almost certainly be the source of the whispers… Cindy and the girl seemed to genuinely not know Ana lucia was dead… its all very confusing - but to me one of the most compelling mysteries…
Comment by Nick — February 22, 2007 @ 7:22 am
i thought last nights episode was good. granted, it wasnt as good as last weeks but still…we found out that the kidnapped peeps and the children are doing okay. (which was a major question from me for the show)…
im also very happy that the losties are starting to ask smarter questions: FINALLY, Kate asked Carl questions that should have been asked episodes earlier. the same goes for Jack talking to the Sheriff.
The losties are finally getting to the intelligence level they had from season one!
Comment by im_no_doc — February 22, 2007 @ 7:29 am
Doc I’m a huge fan of the site and of the show of course. Please read my email that I sent to my friends. Be curious to see how you feel… It’s really a rant I call it “Episode 13 or bust. My friends refer to me as the lost fanatic/psycho. I’ve never been obsessed with a show like this before. I read all the sites, get all the info etc.
“Episode 13 or Bust”
You heard it right folks me of all people is giving this show it’s walking papers soon enough. Last night was awful, and it was episode 9. Episode 13 is about Locke and the wheel chair, episode 11 is suppose to be an “answer heavy” episode where stuff will be revealed. I was originally only going to give the show up to episode 11 to get good. But since Locke is the ONLY interesting person left of the main cast and my favorite, I’ll stick it out for at least 4 more episodes to see how he in fact he did wind up in the wheel chair. Watch them kill him to… bastards.
Say what you will about Carnivale. But at least the characters in Carnivale asked the question ummmm “what the f is going on?” And the plot actually moved forward! Yes maybe slow in season 1 but regardless it still moved. We don’t even get that in this show.
No one asks questions, instead of asking Carl about the Others community and why they are doing what there doing, what does Sawyer do? He gives dating advice! Does Jack bother to ask Cindy what happened to her? No. Has he once asked anything relevant since being captured? No.
And if they don’t cover their tracks then this show has a huge plot hole: They captured Jack Kate and Sawyer BEFORE the sky turned purple. Tom claimed they needed Jack to do surgery because they lost communication with the outside world. That’s fine but you captured him BEFORE this happened. What were you going to do with them prior to this?
I want this show to do well I do, I use to hope it went 5 seasons as was planned, for the sake of viewership I think it would be best now if they came back in January 08 ran all of season 4’s episodes straight through with no breaks like they are planning on doing and call it a day.
So we now know what Jack’s tattoo said, I guess we’ll have to wait til season 6 to find out what his other one means. God for bid they told us both. Since you know they were the big questions we wanted answered anyway.
The solution to this… netflix Prison Break. They took a plot so narrow it should have only went one season and yet every week it is so fresh, creative and fun, and every character good or bad is so interesting and you like them all to a degree.
BTW didn’t we just have a Matthew Fox episode? The biggest criticism the writers were given about the mini season was the focus on just jack Kate and sawyer. What do they do? Continue to focus the entire show on them. No one cares about the love triangle, go watch Grey’s Anatomy for that. This is Lost, sorry for the rant it’s just sad when your once favorite show goes from the powerhouse of season 1 and I think season 2 was great as well, to down the toilet in season 3. The rumored “jump to shark moment” may not have happened just yet, but last night was enough for me.
4 weeks. I give you 4 weeks, and Locke better not have slipped on a banana peel to get in that wheel chair!
Comment by cekma — February 22, 2007 @ 7:31 am
I dug the Kate/Sawyer side-story. Carl wanted to go back to get Alex, and Kate wanted to go back to get Jack, and Sawyer let Carl go, but wouldn’t let Kate go. I thought that was clever and subtle.
Comment by Nat — February 22, 2007 @ 7:34 am
Nat, i couldnt agree more with u!!! F*** the love tri, i dont care about kate or sawyer anymore. Kate can die in the next epi, and i wouldnt even think twice about it. Locke/Ben/Desmond and the only actors, or people who are interesting enough to care about… and im with u.. anything happens to Locke, and the show will be dead to me… DEAD!
Comment by Jimyy — February 22, 2007 @ 8:00 am
Sorry, not Nat… i was agreeing with ” cekma “
Comment by Jimyy — February 22, 2007 @ 8:01 am
Back to the symbol, I don’t think the symbol has anything to do with Scientology…although I do think that it has something to do with religion. To me, it looks like a inverted Star of Bethlehem…and there is an interesting passage in the book of Numbers that reads
“I see him, but not now;
I behold him, but not near.
A star will come out of Jacob;
a scepter will rise out of Israel.
He will crush the foreheads of Moab,
the skulls [a] of [b] all the sons of Sheth.
I am not sure what it means or why the star would be inverted, but it struck me as too great a coincidence…
Comment by Jasonb612 — February 22, 2007 @ 8:08 am
To me, I thought the “Marking” was the Hydra or maybe the upcoming “Flame” hatch. Is that where the “Bad” people end up? Maybe I am wrong.
I hope “They” are not scientologists. And what does being scientologists have to do with 9/11? as doc points out.
So we have one question anwsered (Jacks tatoo, but so many more questions asked:
How long has Carl been on the island
Is that Carl’s Teddy Bear being drug through the jungle?
What is Juliet’s “Marking”?
Why didn’t Jack tell Cindy, Ben was the cause of Anna Lucia’s death?
Why would Ben send out their only “Surgen” (creepy Ethan) as a scout when he knows he would need him?
Why wouldn’t their only “Surgen” be scrubbing in to take Claire’s Baby?
Did “god” kill Jacob?
Is Ben god?
Did Ben tell Juliet that she could go home or she could go “Home”?
Who is the new Sherrif in town?
What “stones” was Jack thrown? My name is Tom, by the way! Greatest line from last week.
Comment by Lee — February 22, 2007 @ 8:11 am
I didn’t hate it, but I was certainly disappointed in it compared to the previous two episodes. I was annoyed by the Kate/Sawyer side show and I don’t really care about Jack’s tattoo. I care more about his Flame Station Tattoo mentioned in a Damon/Carlton podcast…
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/October_17%2C_2006
From the podcast…
“Damon Lindelof: Alright, Carlton, I have a question for you. “Jacks Tattoo and Flame Station” by ‘AmILost’, 3 posts in the last 90 days: “Carlton, I always thought that the tattoo on the underside of the left forearm of Jack was a flame with sparkles. And if so, does this relate to the Flame Station on the door map?”
Carlton Cuse: The uh, YES. I will say that… you’re very perceptive in your question here… I think we will learn a lot more about both Jack’s tattoos and the Flame Station in upcoming episodes. Those are uh… as to whether they are linked? You’ll actually just have to watch and stay tuned…
Damon Lindelof: Are you saying we are going to find the Flame Station at some point in Season 3?
Carlton Cuse: I think that would be a pretty fair assessment.”
Comment by AnotherOther — February 22, 2007 @ 8:38 am
I couldn’t disagree more with those posters who thought last night’s ep was terrible; it may have been this season’s best - certainly the most interesting Jack-centric installment for me - and EXTREMELY revealing. We were shown some of the Others’ justice system and found that it resembled closely Halakhah, pointing to a further connection with one of the Lost Tribes of Israel (the island’s original inhabitants?) We were given much perspective as to Jack’s dangerously bi-polar tendencies and discovered that part of his tattoo reinforces an ongoing theme: that of estrangement (BTW, the 5 component was acquired later to help obscure the original inking and clearly in honor of the story he shared with Kate). A very good case can be made for the ‘out-of-time-phase’ theory about Cindy, Zack and Emma (the kids) but whatever else, she did appear to have undergone conditioning similar to Karl’s. We also saw how Alex can frequently avoid the Others’ full wrath because she is Ben’s daughter (and incidentally, either doesn’t know yet that Danielle is her mother or has been warned that she is dangerous). No, it was one of the BEST, not one of the worst…..we’re getting more exposition in Season 3 than in either of the past 2 and much more to come yet - what IS the problem?
Comment by ogam5 — February 22, 2007 @ 8:46 am
well I will say this the one thing i found interesting is that cindy and the kids did not know he fate of ana lucia. that was kind of cool, makes me think we have more then one group of others. Again, I don’t hate the show I love it, I want it to be great. I’m just frustrated, I don’t mind not giving me answers each week, I mind the characters acting like idiots and not asking logical questions. There priorities are all out of whack.
Comment by cekma — February 22, 2007 @ 8:47 am
-we only know the Chinese tattoo, he still has the other stuff to explain to us.
-the teddy bear is one of the children’s from 815. the kid is even holding it in the scene with Cindy. watch the ep again.
-Jack was upset and disoriented from seeing that Cindy was even still alive. giving her any information at all would feel unnatural. What is more strange is why he didn’t flood her with more questions and why he settled with her non-answers. i hate how everyone in this show can say “its complicated” and character’s are satisfied with that. wtf?! Cindy is ALIVE? how? why? where are we? where’s this island? cindy tell me this stuff!
-There was no reason to expect that Ethan was in trouble by going out to the crash site…
-there’s LOTS of different types of surgeons. that is why its so strange and feels like “FATE” that Jack:spine surgeon crashes on the island when Ben needs SPINAL SURGERY. Ethan couldn’t have been a foot surgeon for all we know!! open your mind. yup.
-the Others and 815ers haven’t had a good sit down talk about ANYTHING, which is why everyone seems so on edge. I don’t think Tom and the rest know much about Jack and the castaways. We are assuming that the Others know a lot more than we do… they might know about the island and have been there for a while, but we DO know that they don’t know what the purple light was, and its messed up their communication with the outside world. When all is said and done, I think the Others are as lost as flight 815.
Comment by Albi4ever — February 22, 2007 @ 8:48 am
It all makes sense now! The button in the hatch was in fact was a gigantic e-meter for detecting thetans worldwide!
Comment by Dan — February 22, 2007 @ 8:50 am
Well, I don’t know what everyone’s so disappointed about. Personally, I thought it was an excellent episode, and I’m glad the writers have gotten on board with such thought-provoking character-driven episodes for the future.
For example, two of the episodes planned next season sound like some of the best storylining they’ve done so far.
In one episode, apparently, Sawyer has a very revealing flashback about a very traumatizing trip to a hair stylist.
And, in another, we get to dive really deep into the Sun/Jin relationship via a trip Sun made to a cosmetic store where she faces both a rip in the time/space continuum and a choice between “blushing bride” and “very berry” lipstain.
Maybe that episode from Eko’s stick’s point of view isn’t that far off after all.
Comment by Skidge — February 22, 2007 @ 8:55 am
Nick… How would Cindy know Ana Lucia was dead? That happened well after she was gone, and I doubt they are getting daily updates on which castaways are still alive.
And Ben’s plot for getting Jack to do the surgery might have been in place with or without Ethan. Maybe Ethan was a good surgeon, but Ben’s needs fit Jack’s specialty perfectly. Ethan being killed only affected his recovery. He could have recovered fine without Jack.
My peeve is how Jack is not surprised about all the stuff he is seeing. Now he is on a rowboat and getting onto a large ship… Again, where’s the “why can’t you just take us home?” or “Why are you doing this to us?” question that no one seems to ask? He has ONE question to ask Alex, and it’s “Where’s Juliet?” Dude, that’s like 387th on the list of obvious questions.
Comment by John K — February 22, 2007 @ 8:55 am
I wasn’t thrilled about last nights episode. Jack’s tattoo and the story behind it were as boring as we all assumed it might be. Per tptb: “Fret not! Next we’ll tell you how locke got in the wheel chair!” (I’ll spare you the suspense: he was injured…NEXT!). So what do we know about Bai Ling’s character or what any of that episode was significant of? Nothing. Nada. All that build up and the pay off is that Jack hit it with some cut-rate-skank in Phuket for roughly a month, who gave him a tattoo, and whose pissed-off brothers kicked his ass. Wake me up when the season’s over.
Comment by Dan — February 22, 2007 @ 9:00 am
Overall this episode wasn’t a mind bender, but in retrospect I think we get some important info. Jack now seems to be ready to become the leader he was supposed to be, finally coming to terms with his uneasiness. We also see the beginning of a union between Jack and Juliet. They’ve also furthered the love triangle or square as it probably will be eventually (I’m sure my girl is more interested now). The one thing that could actually be a mind bender is the quote from the sheriff. She says, “they say he walks among us, but he is not one of us” (they being his tatoos). I believe this is a huge clue to the fact that Jack was never supposed to be on flight 815, and was perhaps nudged there by our lovable looper Desmond. Remember Des and Jack’s original meeting at the stadium when he says things like, “lift it up” (a reference to the hatch), and “fix her” (Jack fixing his eventual wife may have been the beginning of a path to the island). On this point I’ve been reading up on “Watchmen” a graphic novel which was listed as a major influence. There’s a character named Dr. Manhatten who kind of reforms himself into a being of pure energy after an experiment goes haywire (naked Des and the hatch anyone?). After this Dr. Manhatten experiences the past, present, and the future (to some extent) all at once, as the explosion of the experiment caused his energy/consciousness to spread through space and time. Back to the current episode. It also opens a new question. What the hell is up with Cindy, the kids, and the other people who were presumably taken. Why were they seemingly visiting the human zoo? Anyway, maybe this wasn’t one of their more groundbreaking efforts, but overall I think it continues the story very well.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 9:29 am
Juliet’s brand isn’t a Scientology thing. It’s a combination of the upside down cross and the Buddhist wheel. It’s another instance of combining eastern and western philosophy (Pala, the brainwashing video, and now the brand). I think this is going to become a major theme of the Others.
And there’s no reason to expect Cindy to know that Ana Lucia was killed. Jack hasn’t even told any of the Others about that, and if he did I wouldn’t expect Ben to reveal that to the whole camp.
Comment by hexonxonx — February 22, 2007 @ 9:34 am
No offense, Dan, but you completely missed the power of last night’s episode - Aschara isn’t just some ‘cut-rate-skank’ despite the seedy Phuket backdrop; she represents the most poignant victim of Jack’s proprietary impulses. What he did to her was in some ways worse than rape, forcing Aschara to impart her ‘gift’ and mark him, fully knowing that it would not be received favorably by the locals and, least of all, her family. While he can’t be entirely blamed for such actions with Sarah, had he been able to grow from that and other experiences, he could’ve really appreciated the time he spent with Aschara - a gift in and of itself - and allowed her to GIVE him her gift when she was ready, rather than robbing her of grace and relative innocence by force.
Comment by ogam5 — February 22, 2007 @ 9:41 am
I want to make the point that it seems that most of the frustrated fans in these forums (see ceckma) are getting upset at the fact that we’re not getting the answers we’re looking for. I’m under the opinion that as much as I want answers, it’s the questions that have me so enthralled. If they gave me the answers too quickly I’d probably look back on this show as one of my favorites but not living up to its full potential. This adds to my belief that frustrated fans are waiting for the DVD’s. That way they can watch one episode after another until they’re satisfied enough to hit the sac (then go to bed).
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 9:44 am
Cekma, John K, albi4ever, jimyy
I have been asking this same question on this site since season 1!!! These characters are complete and utter IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Episode last night was HORRIBLE!!!! Where was the BOMB?
The writing on this show is stupid!!!!
“Oh Hi cindy, having a good time ..’watching us’?”. Can you share some popcorn and a drink, this cage is a little confining to me?
Come on folks, 4th graders ask more questions than these people do!
Doc and the others on this blog, I am not going to belittle nor call names nor result to insulting any viewers or question the validity of other shows (ok, alright BSG is right up there with LOST …..LOST In Space that is….I can not help myself, I digressed. Forgive me…give me a break, BSG was the WORSE SHOW IN TV)
OK back to my thought, Doc, last night was completely the worse show yet. I turned it off with complete disgust. The kicker was Jack on a SHIP getting the heck out of Dodge (so to speak) and the MOST the writers could muster up was a longing look to Juliet before the Lost logo comes up ending the episode.
OK OK OK OK I am jack for 15 seconds here….I am a survivor of a plane crash in the south pacific standed on a island for 50+ days now (mmm, did he shower before surgery, after all 50 days on a deserted island the smell of his body alone not to mention his clothes should have given enough bacteria and germs in the air to gag a cockroach much less BEN and TOM.) these people, who the HECK knows who they are, capture me keep me in a cage and then put me on a ship that suddenly shows up and THE ONLY thing I can do is look at the pretty blonde???
COME ON DOC, NONE OF THIS IS believable. THE MOST ABSOLUTE STUPIDEST MENTAL PATIENT would have more intelligence than these people.
PUT MY VOTE DOWN….this episode STUNK WORSE THAN JACk’s clothes!!!!
Comment by thirdflr — February 22, 2007 @ 9:54 am
The reason so many of us are upset with Lost is because Lindelof and Cuse keep PROMISING us answers! Every promo for last night’s episode said THIS WEEK’S LOST: ANSWERS! And what did we get? Not a gorram thing!
As a matter of fact, the most worthwhile scene in the whole episode was on television months ago as one of the Lost moments. Sorry Doc, but your rant before was wrong: Lost fans aren’t responsible for the demise of this show, Lindelof and Cuse are. They need to either stay out of the media and quit giving deceptive interviews, or they need to be honest. Failing all of that, maybe they could actually hire people who can write and edit, because last night was amateur hour. I’d have rather watched American Idol than sit through another act of this worthless episode.
Anyone at this point who still thinks that they have a “plan” is delusional.
Comment by icyone — February 22, 2007 @ 9:58 am
I guess that’s the thing… this, as well as 90% of Lost now, show could have been summed up in 10 minutes and we would not be any less informed as we were. This show is becoming very annoying and the fact that the producers think that people are more interested in the “love triangle” need to go back and look at the roots of why people are watching this show: The Island, The Others and what it all means. To be honest none of these questions EVER get brought up none the less answered. Guys look at what the people want or we will end up walking and just renting the damn things on DVD in the end!
Comment by Thegreatcerebral — February 22, 2007 @ 10:00 am
Thanks for proving my point. Maybe you should wait for the DVD’s thirdflr. I feel ya bro. I think doc made a good point when comparing this to a novel. It’s innevitably going to move too slow for some people. By the way, if I were stranded on an island for 50 days I’d be staring longingly at the cute blonde too.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Worst episode of the Season. Wow…just wow.
Comment by thedanceman — February 22, 2007 @ 10:07 am
First, Damon and Carlton explicitly said in their podcast that three big mysteries aren’t revealed, but that one small mystery is revealed and two others are touched on. And then they said maybe just one. The producers aren’t the ones making the wild claims about each episode, it’s ABC and the promotional people.
Yeah, last night was sub-par, but how is that evidence that the producers don’t have a plan? How could you possibly know that, and how would this episode help you know that more?
Comment by hexonxonx — February 22, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Say it ain’t so. A sect such as scientology does not deserve or warrant any sort of exposure on a major television serie such as Lost. Talking about jumping the shark, this could be it.
Comment by Pierre — February 22, 2007 @ 10:11 am
Well Cap, when she got wind of your 50 days without brushing your teeth, she would hurled over the siderail!
Cap, you completely missed my point. The novel can be 900 pages long but I don’t expect the characters to be idiots. Yes, so we are in chapter three, BUT I am not asking for the last page now, I am asking for some intelligence rather than “hey its man to man time”, and then lets discuss the love life of Alex and Karl. No rational human being would care what the love life is when you are stranded on a deserted island for 50+ days…..
Comment by thirdflr — February 22, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Yeah I agree. Also, we already saw Cindy and the people she was with in the teaser. I hoped they would have given us something more than that but all we got was “they gave us a better life” or some bullshit vague answer. I ALREADY KNEW THAT! They could have made this episode so much better by showing us what happened right after Cindy or the children disappeared. Also, flashbacks used to be so much more concise in season one. In this episode the flashbacks dragged on for so long and were bloated in my opinion and hardly revealed anything worth wasting an entire episode on. The long shots at the end on the boat were awful. The music while on the boat was awful. This episode was loaded with fluff.
Comment by Charlie Lesoine — February 22, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Keep in mind that every season had its down episodes. Maybe not as many in season 1, because everything was new and iteresting. In season 2 I couldn’t have cared less about most of the “tailies.” The only one I thought wasn’t a waste of time was Ecko. Now looking back as a whole season 2 was pretty damn good. If you think about it “Lost” is kind of like your underappreciated girl/boyfriend. In the end you’ll miss her/him.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Jacks Tattoos: the 5 on his arm and some of the other art, Foxy already had before the show, their HIS real life tattoos. the 5 could be the fact that he was on party of 5. but some of the art is indeed his real life tattoos. so dont dig too deep.
Comment by Jimyy — February 22, 2007 @ 10:25 am
hex: It’s not that it was THIS EPISODE but its the treatment of the fans by the producers. Perhaps Lindelof should keep his mouth shut if he can’t service an interview properly.
I think all fans would rather Lindelof and Cuse say nothing in regard to the next episode than half-truths and outright lies. One small mystery? Seriously? Jack’s tattoo is a mystery? No one cares about that garbage. I don’t tune in every week, “GOD! I hope they finally address the issue of Jack’s tattoo!” Maybe they can devote a whole episode to what Paolo ate before he dropped the kids off at the pool!
And how can I say they don’t have a plan? Nothing ever happens. EVER. You want to look at a show that had a plan, watch Babylon 5. That’s what you call FORESHADOWING. Foreshadowing is indicative of a plan. But Lost employs a different style - they just throw random crap into and episode and hope they can write their way out of it down the line, with no disregard for consistency.
Look at it this way. The big mystery over the summer: Why do the others want Jack/Kate/Sawyer? Tom starts his explanation with “before the sky turned purple.” But they already HAD Jack&Co - the sky turned purple while they were on the dock. So what was the plan here? If the major events are plotted out (and I would say kidnapping 3 main characters a major event) then this was poorly done. One of these statements must therefore be true:
1) There is no plan.
2) The writers don’t watch their own show or read their own work.
3) The writers are piss poor.
You can pick and choose at your leisure, of course. That’s how Lost decides where the story is going.
Comment by icyone — February 22, 2007 @ 10:30 am
Okay, most of us have gotten off-topic, but in the absence of a thread to just talk about the episode in general, I will jump on that bandwagon too.
Overall, as a character-driven piece, I didn’t have too many problems with last nights episode. It was nice to see a Jack-centric episode that shed some light on his character without going over the same old ground of father-son issues and his failed marriage.
Overall, we are starting to get some momentum in revealing what the others are all about, how they live, etc. The info isn’t coming in droves, but we are steadily putting the pieces together. We got confirmation that the Others live semi-normal lives in their village on the main island from Karl’s memories of better times. We got confirmation that the Hydra facility is strictly used for ‘work’, whatever that means to the Others. And we got a glimpse into their belief systems and how they maintain order within their group.
As a follow-on to last weeks episode, it was a bit of a let-down, if only because ‘flashes’ was absolutely brilliant, and ’stranger’ will most likely not rank up there in the top episodes of all time.
My biggest frustration with the episode has been echoed by several others. I like the fact that we don’t get all the answers we are looking for in a neat tidy package. The journey is more interesting than the destination. But the writers need to find better reasons for keeping the information hidden.
Jack had the opportunity to ask Cindy any number of possible questions. When Cindy responded to his initial probing with a somewhat vague and flippant answer and then asked how Ana Lucia was doing, he flew into a rage and chased her away. Rage? Maybe. I don’t want to talk to you anymore? Why? His best move would have been the truth, to tell Cindy that Ana was dead, and that it was largely due to the machinations of the Others. Anything to snap her out of the apparently apathetic state she was in with respect to their circumstances.
Same thing goes for Karl. Once he was awake, Sawyer and Kate get a few rather trivial bits of information out of him, and then send him on his merry way. This one is even more baffling. He is their one source of information concerning the Others. They should be taking him back to camp, hogtied if necessary. If Kate really cared about getting Jack back, she’d never let Karl out of her sight.
There are any number of other more plausible ways they could have handled this. Have Karl suffer some after-effects of his ‘therapy’ that render him temporarily useless as a source of information. Have him clam up due to a lack of trust of the losties.
Anyways, rant over. Were all critics. It’s still the best show on television bar none.
Comment by kilroy — February 22, 2007 @ 10:30 am
Before the second part of the third season started, people wanted to know which island the Others lived on. People were confused how Ethan and the other guy “ran” to a separate island, well last night we found out that they lived on the same island at the 815ers. The island they’re on now, is just a seperate, smaller, second island. People wanted to know what the Others were doing with the children? were the others hurting them? Killing them? Well, now we know they seem to be doing relatively well. Questions are getting answered, and if you pay attention, the writers seem to be slowly pulling various story threads together. Do people really think the show would be better if Jack asked Ben over tea what was going on? And then Ben rattled off all of the mysteries over the next 45 minutes. That would suck. Anyways, i digress. What i wanted to say was this: I think Jack is slowly coming around and beginning to sympathize with the others. He clearly cares for Juliet, and he cares for Ben’s well being as well. i think his tattoo , “he walks among us, but he is not one of us”, alludes to the fact that he’s going to be running with the others for some time. To what capacity, I’m unsure. Last night, his Thai girlfriend told him he was a leader, she just didn’t say of who.
Also, I’m new to the whole message board thing, i usually just annoy my fiance with all my Lost musings, but one thing from last week’s episode i thought was interesting was Charlies sign when he’s playing Wonder Wall. His name read Charlie Hieronymus. Hieronymus was a painter who did some pretty trippy work:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus_Bosch
Especially his triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights
For all i know this all old news. But in case it isn’t, i thought I’d share.
As for people who are frustrated with the show. I totally understand, a lot of my friends stopped watching because they never got any answers. I can’t stop watching because i love all the questions.
Comment by phelixshu — February 22, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Jacks Tattoos: the 5 on his arm and some of the other art, Foxy already had before the show, their HIS real life tattoos. the 5 could be the fact that he was on party of 5. but some of the art is indeed his real life tattoos. so dont dig too deep.
Comment by Jimyy — February 22, 2007 @ 10:35 am
Again, I understand your frustration thirdflr, but let me expand on my point. If this were a 900 page novel we’d be at about page 420 right now. We would most certainly have clues but nowhere near the answers we’re waiting for. The problem here is that you can continue reading a novel until you’re satisfied for the night. I’ve gone through like 300 pages sometimes before I wanted to rest my weary head. I think all of you frustrated losties (let’s call you frosties) have some valid points. That’s why I think they are losing viewers to the DVD’s.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 10:38 am
to: ogam5 yeah, yeah, yeah I got all that. No offense, but you you completely missed the tongue-in-cheek nature of my post. The episode still sucked.
Comment by Dan — February 22, 2007 @ 10:43 am
Cap10tripps… i love this show, im sticking with it no matter what… but seriously, the fact that its playing out like a 900 page novel doesnt mean it is one… If im reading my novel, i dont have to stop if i want answers, i just keep reading, there for i wont be flustered. but this is Tv, and i cant just keep going…
Comment by Jimyy — February 22, 2007 @ 10:44 am
oops. It is old news! I suck. Should have read the entire Wiki page first. let the flogging begin…
Comment by phelixshu — February 22, 2007 @ 10:58 am
LOST has become such a fractal show now that it’s impossible to please all the different types of fans who would prefer it go in one direction or the other. The best way to enjoy it is to accept that the show keeps morphing and never stands still. Never has. For a while there it seemed like Locke was the star of the show, now he’s rarely in it. Same with Hurley. People that seemed like they were on their way to becoming important characters didn’t. If you watch the first three episodes of Season One and compare them to the most recent three, it’s almost a like a completely different show with a completely different cast in a completely different setting.
So relax and just know that someday, when it’s all said and done and we all have all the seasons lined up in DVD box sets on our shelves, someday the current plotline will make sense in the bigger scheme of things.
Back in the glory days of The X-Files, I used to be so angry when a really good conspirary-arc storyline would be interrupted by stand-alone eps. But then I read an interview with one of their writers who said “You know, it may be annoying now, but someday when the show’s in syndication, you’ll all be bored sick of the Smoking Man storyline by then and you’ll be glad we did all these other different oddball stand-alone shows and experiments.” And y’know, he was right. And so it’ll be for LOST. Perspective on it all will come with time.
(But oh yeah - about Scientology - I had already been thinking about parallels with the Dharma project and Scientology’s underground bunkers like the Trementina Base. And William Mapother, the character who plays Ethan, is a Scientologist in real life, just like his cousin Tom Cruise. So yeah, Juliet’s brand as a Scientology cross, I can see it.)
Comment by Squanna — February 22, 2007 @ 11:05 am
And therein lies the problem for the frosties Jimyy. They can’t just keep watching after the hour is up. They have to wait (and that can be excruciating).
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 11:20 am
My first through about Juliet’s mark is that it represents a map of the Dharma stations. The Hydra is two miles off short so that would be the mark at the top. The Pearl is in the center, the Swan was near the bottom.
But:
1. that would mean there are 9 stations (for the 8 points and the Pearl in the center)
2. it also means that the arrangement of the stations has some meaning tied to the Dharma/Namaste philosophy. I hope it has nothing to do with Tom Cruise and L. Ron Hubbard. (Dianetics — first published in 1950–did Enzo Valenzetti read it before or after the Cuban Missile Crisis?
Comment by CrappyDeli — February 22, 2007 @ 11:45 am
WOW CEKMA! YOU’RE SOOOO COOL! You know how to insult the intelligence of highly successful writers! Man I wish I had the guts to say something like that….on the internet.
Last night’s episode was by far my favorite of this season. A lot of questions were answered for me. They kidnap the “good” people to give them a “better” life than running around scared and without hope like the losties. We got an idea of how the others govern and work. Karl gave a lot of insight into otherville, especially for kate and sawyer. Man, watch the episode again and quit being a bitch.
Comment by Jeramie — February 22, 2007 @ 11:53 am
Icyone: Tom *began* by saying “Before the purple light…” but he never finished his thought. You’ve decided to fill in what he was going to say, and then criticized the writers for creating a plot hole. That’s pretty dumb. Just like when people couldn’t understand how they never found the second island, or how Ethan ran from one island to another, or any number of other dumb stuff people have believed, you’re missing something or making false assumptions.
Trust me, the writers aren’t going to create a giant plot hole that thousands of fans will catch and they won’t. It’s just not plausible. As for “nothing ever happening” being evidence of there not being a plan, that’s ridiculous. Firstly, stuff does happen, though some episodes advance the plot less than others. Secondly, the plot advancing slowly isn’t evidence that they don’t know where it’s going. There are a number of things they want to cover on the way to each major plot point, and that’s what they’re doing.
Comment by hexonxonx — February 22, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
I definitely don’t think that the timing of the kidnapping of Jack, Sawyer and Kate relative to the Hatch incident is a plot hole. Ben had a spinal tumor. Jack is a spinal surgeon, and a very gifted one. If they could choose anybody in the world to perform the surgery, Jack might be at the top of the list. Fairly simple motivation for his kidnapping right there. Granted, it hasn’t been explained in detail why Sawyer and Kate were taken as well, but it stands to reason that the Others are aware of the love triangle, and thought they might be able to exploit it in order to give Jack the appropriate motivation to perform the surgery.
Regarding their ‘contact’ with the outside world. All we know so far is that they had communications with the outside world, and that some of them (Juliet and Ethan for example) were able to come to the island at one time. We have no ideas of the limitations of this contact, whether they can come and go at will, etc. Now, even their communications are gone, thanks to the implosion of the hatch.
I’ll have to re-watch the scene between Tom and Jack, but I don’t recall Tom inferring a cause-and-effect relationship between kidnapping him and the sky turning purple.
Comment by kilroy — February 22, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
How long do they think they’re going to go on that they want to take 42 minutes and devote it to Jack’s tattoos? I’m all for telling a story at your own pace but you need to actually TELL A STORY.
I loved the Desmond episode. And 3×07. And the mini-season. I told people who had stopped watching the show that they had really turned it around with the Desmond episode. Who’s eating crow this morning?
Lindelof was right about one thing - the Desmond episode IS the one where people will say “Did Lost jump the shark?” because it did - it was actually satisfying. There were more revelations in 3×08 than “your questions will be answered!” 3×09.
And as for Tom starting with the purple light story, what could he have POSSIBLY said that would not be a plot hole? Jack asked why they couldn’t take him to a doctor off the island and we get “before the purple light..” Before it -what-? What have we learned about the light? We know that before it, they could get outside communication, and now we know they can’t. Sorry, there’s no way to spin that. It’s just BS.
The writers have a plan, you still contend. Let’s assume that there is. At the rate they’re losing viewers, do you think they’ll ever GET to anything resembling a plot? Do they plan to do anything in this show other than Kate and Jack and Sawyer making sad puppy dog eyes at each other? Will we be treated to 13 more episodes this year of tattoos and other skin irregularities?
How many more episodes of inconsequential garbage will you watch before you realize that you’ve been strung along for 2.5 years with no payoff? When Lost is cancelled halfway through next year, are you going to cry that they weren’t given enough time? At what point do you say its enough? For me, it was 3×09. Good luck with your blue balls.
Comment by icyone — February 22, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
quick! Someone call a wha-a-a-a-a-mbulance!
Comment by stophammertime — February 22, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
Such a groundbreaking show like this couldn’t continue without this type of criticism forever. At some point we should have expected the frosties to cry foul. The yearning for instant gratification is the norm in a society that diagnoses A.D.D. as if it were some kind of real medical condition. I understand all of your points, but if you can’t be patient wait for the DVD’s. What I don’t understand is why you guys get so upset over these things. The questions in this show are just as important as the answers. Relax and understand that when the ride is over you will have been a part of television history.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 22, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
If you think timetravel can happen in the show then you can imagine why they dont behave like we expect them to do. The losties dont look for answers we are looking for because they already know them but it could be explained in later episodes.
Comment by Tom — February 22, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Damon and Carlton have said there is a beginning,a middle and an end to this story. Right now I trust them more than any naysayers in this forum. They haven’t lied….they’ve admitted to mistakes in podcasts and faulted ABC’s marketing department for falsely hyping certain events. 42 minutes about Jack’s tattoos wasn’t even close to what happened last night. It’s about Jack, manning up and accepting who he really is. Through those actions, he saved Juliet from death, Ben from death and Sawyer and Kate from death……
And personally, I’m not looking for a “payoff”. I’ve already gotten more than I could ever ask for as a viewer. In researching all of the clues and hidden references and theories, I’ve actually raised my IQ, which might not mean much, as it was already kind of high….Anything else they want to throw out at this point is a bonus….
LOST won’t be cancelled at any point. 13 million viewers may be a low number to some, but at 10 PM on ABC, it’s about 8 million more than they previously had. It’s not in it’s heyday, ratings wise but it’s strong with the viewers that it has.
Comment by El Prez — February 22, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
dude, it looks like a pot leaf! And that Asian chick, damnnnnn she was hot
Comment by henry — February 22, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
For everyone complaining about Jack “not asking enough questions”. I think he is done with questions! He has been locked up, I’m sure by now he could care less where Cindy has been. Last nights show might not have been great but LOST still is the best show on TV.
Comment by TOOL — February 22, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
The symbol that Juliet was branded with looks like a graphic impression of a plane and the place where it breaks in two.
Comment by Tom — February 22, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Theory on the big “plot hole”
It’s clear by now that the Others want very little to do with the outside world. 1) Ben having lived on the island his whole life, 2) Tom: “This is our island.” and the overall animosity towards the survivors, 3) Ben, as Henry Gale, explaining that even God couldn’t see this island.
With that in mind, even though the Others apparently had the power to contact the outside world, it doesn’t mean that they would take the chance to visit it. For whatever reason (we don’t know yet), there might be a good reason that the Others would avoid leaving the island and heading back to the rest of the world. Therefore, Ben finds out that he has a tumor on his back, and two days later, a plane with a spinal surgeon crashes on his island. Fate. So the plan to kidnap Jack is hatched. They take Kate and Sawyer with because they have knowledge of the love triangle. Guess what, it works.
But what about Jack’s question to Tom? Here’s what I think. Tom took the question to mean why did you guys go through with all this once you realized that I wouldn’t do it. Remember, Jack was very obstinate about doing the surgery, and even gave Ben his diagnosis just so he would know “how he was going to die.” At that point, why wouldn’t they give up on Jack and just take Ben to a surgeon off the island? The answer: Because ever since the sky turned purple, they’ve lost contact.
It’s a plausible answer. So I don’t think that it’s that huge of a “plot hole.” Regardless, I think people complain about this show way too much. We act like we’ve been paying $10 each week for a ticket to see the show. Beyond the time we invest each Wednesday night, we haven’t lost anything on this show, so stop acting like those writers owe us anything. I love this show because it makes me think; plain and simple. Everyone wants answers, answers, answers. First, if they gave you all the answers, everyone would complain cause the show would be over. Second, you can’t have answers without questions. There is no other show that I have ever looked forward to each week as much as this show. Enjoy the ride cause there won’t be anything like this for awhile.
Comment by Skoks — February 23, 2007 @ 12:41 am
Oh yes they have lied….
JJ - “Ana Lucia is too much a part of the story”….the next eppisode she is dead!
I, like alot of people are done with the producers.
They should shut the Heck up, quit the podcasts, websites, commercials, T.H.E. and let the show speak for itself. And if ABC is misleading the public then the producers need to tell ABC to shut up as well or they pull the show. I am sure SCI-FI channel would love to add LOST to thier line up.
Comment by Thirdflr — February 23, 2007 @ 5:30 am
I hope it is not a Scientology cross as Scientology is a screwed up cult
Comment by George — February 23, 2007 @ 6:01 am
Skoks, wanted to throw my .02 in with regards to just why Ben couldn’t be taken to a surgeon off-island: I think that he has a compromised immune system, either as a result of his role in DHARMA-related experiments or because he is a product of the island itself in some way - and very vulnerable when removed from it, or the magnetic field prevented any further progress of the tumor somehow. Also, I am fairly certain that 815 was originally intended to LAND on the island, but Inman’s manipulation of Desmond, for his own purposes of escaping or someone else’s that made them appear as such, sabotaged the plan - this is why the pilot was dispatched by the monster before he had a chance to tell Jack and Kate anything. We know from his brief and bizarre exchange with Claire at the airport that he was at least complicit in a meticulously planned hijacking. “Flashes Before Your Eyes” strongly reinforced the perception that a} whoever was responsible for making sure Desmond was unable to enter the numbers at a critical juncture was NOT part of DHARMA or the Others we’ve come to know and love; thus, I’m leaning in part towards our new, camera-shy friend Mikhail, AKA ‘Patchy’, and b} that Desmond is indeed the ‘free radical’, the game-changing unknown quantity not anticipated by the HANSO (as directed by Mittlewerk)-Widmore alliance…..
Comment by ogam5 — February 23, 2007 @ 6:13 am
hey i just have to say i dont think theres any way that the others are scientologists. that would just wreck the show. lost sofar has gone on a basis of , sure, its unrealistic, but its still practical if you get into the right mindset. but the whole scientology thing is just in this whole other mindset. it doesnt go with the rest of the show. i did some research and the whole idea of bieng “marked” is not true. scientologists dont do that. and if you found out later on in the show that the others are scientologists, it would cause to much contraversy.
and people btw stop complaining please about the season three, things will pick up, they always do, bigger questions will be answered, the producers had alot more to work with the first and second season , more things to explain .which is why people watch this show, to get answers. they are running out of material to work with and this is why in the 3rd season , they have stopped answering questions, and started giving us questions. they have thrown in jacks old girlfriend from china with the mysterious “gift” and put in the sherrif, and put in the marking on julliette . just keep watching the show and youre questions will be answered. things have to get boring , before they can get exciting . then i bet you wont all be complaining so bloody much.
Comment by tpby cassidy — February 23, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
I love those ideas Ogam5. That’s what this show and these forums are all about. Spread that brain stimuli. Anyway, I believe Ben’s immune system would absolutely be compromised. We’ve already seen what happened to Locke and Rose on this island. Ben definitely couldn’t leave. There’s your answer all wrapped up. That’s why Ben couldn’t be taken away. Now the real question is how the hell is the island so keen with its healing powers? I believe time runs slower on our little island. They will probably address this when Walt comes back all tall and aged so rapidly. His drifting for an island month was actually a years worth of aging (or roundabouts). The further you get from the island the more time has its effect on you. Your physical self is aging more rapidly the closer you get to the perimeter of the snow globe. If you could actually bust through the snowglobe, the 50-some days you had just gone through lost on an island would be years on the outside.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 24, 2007 @ 12:55 am
If that is the case Cap10tripps, why did the Others have up to date outside information that they could show Jack? Liek who won the world series, etc.? We all assume that the Others are in control here and can come and go from the island as they will (ie: to get a surgeon) but I still think that the Others are just as much captives as the Losties - just in different ways. I think someone else is controlling this great “experiment” remotely or something. In the end the Others will be subjects of experimentation too.
Comment by Molly — February 25, 2007 @ 7:34 am
Nice ideas Molly. I think other others are a distinct possibility. As far as up to date info goes, it was info on what happened in 2004 shortly after the plane crash (Red Sox winning the series). That info could still be available to you if (as is my belief) the world outside the snow globe is modern time (our time). The others knowing that the island operates on an alternate system of time wouldn’t tell Jack info that happened in 2005 or 2006 (when the episode aired), as he knows the lostaways believe it’s about 50-60 days after Sept. 22, 2004.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 25, 2007 @ 10:46 am
The cap10’s 1st Official Theory
Just a comment on the other others. The 4 toed statue insinuates at an ancient far advanced civilization (perhaps hints of Atlantis). We may see the other others as this civilization, or they may be intermixed with the DHARMA/Hanso Foundation and Mittelos scientists (the others). Just to further this point, I feel that this island is located in the future (probably after or near the date the Valenzetti code deciphered as the end of the world). If the code actually had come to fruition (or was seemingly going to), then the space/time bending technology could be used to try to go back and change the code (our retired NY Yankee reappearing #’s). To further the point on Atlantis, many non-skeptics believe that the strange electromagnetic occurrances within the devil’s triangle could have been caused by left over technology from Atlantis (we see a triangle surrounding Rousseau’s map of the island). They may not use the triangle and Atlantis as an explanation, but they were obviously influenced by the stories.
Now to totally blow your mind. If what I said so far is used in any way, then I believe we will find out that we (the viewers) are part of the experiment. Using morphic resonance (a theory that suggests everything is connected by energy and our our makeup/DNA uses info like a computer would to upgrade and evolve) the others are trying to influence our evolution and eventually (hopefully) the code will change allowing our existence to continue past their (the others) time. I also believe time travelin Des (he knows what’s going to happen) sees the sacrifice of the people brought to the island as pointless (the end is innevitable) and is trying to change the course of things. I’m thinking that Jack was not supposed to be on that plane, and that Desmond manipulated things to get him on it. Jack will ultimately be the savior and Des will be god-like in his creation. This may be a metaphor to explain the icons who have shaped religion and the history of the world.
Thoughts???
Comment by cap10tripps — February 26, 2007 @ 9:35 am
cap10… WOW!
you did just blow my mind!
and i think you could be very right :::))))
this is the first theory i’ve ever heard that gives an almost credible big picture to the story… and if what you are saying is true… this really will be the best show of all time. that will be tv history right there!
i would really love to hear someone try to disprove this… and to see if the story begins to evolve in this direction.
absolutely amazing!
cap10, you really are trippin!
Comment by Zyzzybalubah — February 27, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
HAVE YOU NOTICED?
There are 3 islands. In the 1st ep. of S3 as the camera tracks into the sky above the Others village you can see that they are on a different island from the crashes. You can tell that the tailsection is closest to the Others village island which will be important later. Ben showed Sawyer that the Hydra station is not on the Main island. In “Stranger” the Others reveal that they do not live on the Hydra island, they only ‘work’ there. That is 3 islands, the Main island, the Others village island, and the Hydra island. The tailsection being closest to the Others village island is apparent in that camera shot I mentioned above is important because it explains how Goodwin came out of the jungle shortly after the crash. I could not find a shot of the crash showing Ethan in the first episode. It took him longer to make it across the Main island.
Comment by swamphollow23 — February 27, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
Greatly appreciated Zyz. Just to further the theory a little, I believe the cable Sayid finds (that ventures out into the ocean) will be the connection to us (the viewers) and the island. I still can’t come up with a sturdy answer to my fav question, what the hell is Smokey? My best guess is it somehow either represents the acceptance of fate, or it’s a security system the others use to help them complete their goal. Any thoughts on this Zyz? Anyone???
Comment by cap10tripps — February 28, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Despite rumors to the contrary, J.J. Abrams has openly denied being a Scientologist. He’s Jewish, and his wife is Catholic.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/07/PKGL8IF4771.DTL
Also keep in mind how often the Writers of Lost have based a plot point on Chatholicism. Eko was a priest, Charlie is also Catholic, Aaron was baptized etc. And Sayid has been seen praying the Muslim way at least twice.
To accuse the producers of Lost of secretly propagating the beliefs of Scientology is ridicuolous.
Comment by Nevermore — March 21, 2007 @ 8:40 am
Well, J.J. was a Scientologist. And I can see Scientology “letting him go” in exchange for his talents. Make movies and shows for us that have secret Scientology ties, and we’ll let you out of Scientology. For some reason, this always plays in my head.
ex: Scientology is big on bridges, that you have to cross some bridge to reach “clear”, or reach the highest OT level. (I’m not sure about the clear or OT part, but the bridge part I am confident about.) In Mission Impossible 3, there’s a high action sequence with a bridge. In Cloverfield, the monster destroys the Brooklyn Bridge. Also, in I Am Legend, the Brooklyn Bridge is destroyed. I know JJ wasn’t credited in that, but Will Smith has been associated with Tom Cruise a lot recently, he was even at Tom and Katie’s wedding! I’m now wondering if Tom(scientology) promised Will Smith “hugh” movie roles in exchange to be a part of the wedding. And along the way, got indocrinated into CoS.
Comment by Carl — May 22, 2008 @ 10:11 pm
How would a mark burned/carved into the arm of one of the others *promote* Scientology?
The way Ben talks to people is exactly the way that Scientologists are trained to “handle” Suppressive Persons. First, always accuse them of being closed minded and or bigoted. Second, always refuse the premises of their questions. Third, intimidate them with a direct stare. Fourth, find creative ways to not exactly lie, and to technically keep the letter of your word.
For Ben, like for a Level Two or higher Operating Theta, the ends always justify the means. The very fate of the universe is at stake, he’s right, you’re wrong.
Like Scientologists, the Others are “Just trying to help”.
Juliet’s trip to the Island is JUST like most scientologists trips to Clearwater - what is supposed to be a “short” time turns into years cut off from contact with friends and family.
Ben, just like David Miscavige in the mid-eighties, purged to old leadership in order to take over.
Ben uses peoples secrets against them, engaging in blackmail, just like scientologists do to anyone who “attacks” them by telling the truth. He compiles data on people, just like Scientology does through it’s “audit” and “ethics review” processes.
Many people are stunned by how much their “auditor” knows about them, but the reason is that they maintain a cross-referenced data base on everything other members have told them. If your high-school girlfriend, for instance, became a scientologist twenty years ago, they know about the time she went with you to steal some beer.
Just like scientology, Ben and other senior members hold different levels of “secret doctrine” concealed from most members.
The “others” aren’t “Scientologists”, they’re an ANALOGY to the Church of Scientology, and the show is not promoting Scientology but serving as a warning.
Jack and Sawyer, the Hero and Anti-hero, are the ultimate “Suppressive Persons” rejecting all of the “magic”. Locke, however, is sucked in because of the “magical” healing of his legs, the way Kristie Allie was sucked in by the “curing” of her coke habit or Tom Cruise was sucked in by the “curing” of his dyslexia.
The people who have “died”, who we keep seeing as “ghosts”, are those who have joined in completely, who have “fallen for it”. Scientology often sends these people to one of the bigger “Orgs”, but lets them return occasionally to the smaller “orgs” to “help along” people they knew there. They can’t tell those people anything they have learned, or where they now are, though.
Charlie, who “died” after fully believing in the “magic”, keeps popping up to bug the hell out of Hugo, who “got out”. This is just like the way the Church of Scientology will send an old friend who is now SeaOrg (internal security) after someone who is trying to break free in order to try to drag them back in.
Why do all the babies and mothers die? It’s an exaggeration of what REALLY HAPPENS in Scientology. I am not kidding.
Scientologists are taught to have the “silent birth” you’ve all heard about. Since most hospitals won’t go along with this, these births often take place at the home with poorly trained Scientology approved mid-wives, putting the lives of the mother and the baby at risk.
After the baby is born, it must remain in complete silence and preferably complete darkness for the first seven days of life, fed only a “Baby Formula” invented by L. Ron Hubbard. This formula consists of barley and honey (I think we all know kids under two should not have honey, and of course infants can’t digest barley).
Breastfeeding is completely against the rules, obviously leaving their children with less than perfect immune systems, but that’s minor compared to the other problems. The parents are supposed to have as little contact with the child as possible during a time when SIDS is a major risk.
JJ left Scientology after one of his dear friends died in childbirth along with her baby, because mid-wives don’t do C-sections. He also knew several other scientologists over the years who lost children because of this insanity.
It’s allegory. The “others” ARE the bad guys.
The people trying to free them/destroy the Island represent Anonymous. Some are good people, like neck beard guy/tech wiener/professor, who actually care about saving them if he can. Google “wise beard man”, a leading anti-scientologist truth-teller, who constantly tries to convince Anonymous to stick to non-violent means and try to save those duped by Scientology instead of being destructive.
Others of them, like the Mercenaries, are just trying to destroy the Island (which represents the Clearwater, FL Org) “for the LULz”.
We are Anonymous. We walk among you. We are you. We are no one.
Comment by David — July 30, 2008 @ 2:28 am