Doc Jensen Talks BlackHoles and ‘Flashes Before Your Eyes’
Seems you Tailsection posters had an impact on EW’s Lost-theory maestro Jeff ‘ Doc’ Jensen. He emailed me this morning to say:
The black hole symposium which thetailsection hosted last week was so inspiring, I devoted a whole column today offering my own thoughts on what seems to be the hottest new Lost theory in quite some time.
Furthermore, he offered a little tantalization on tonight’s episode that offers hope for those of you who think the episode might be all spoiled out. Since it contains a spoiler, I’m going to post it after the cut. Those of you who are spoiler averse still will want to head over to Entertainment Weekly to see what the other Doc has to say about all things quantum.
Now for the spoilers and the hope that a big surprise awaits us, here is what Jeff has allowed us to say about tonights episode:
it continues the season’s trend toward narrow, deep episodes; it’s almost all Des & Pen. But I liked it. And I thought the much-spoiled "Des tells someone that they’re going to die" development has a nice twist that no one has yet revealed.
That raises the stakes for me considerably. I mean what Jeff is still saying is that Des tells someone they are going to die, what he isn’t reiterating is that he tells Charlie. Could the proposal that it is Claire who is told she will die be true? Folks have pointed out that so far we know that Des has saved Claire twice, and the clip of him saying "no matter what I do, your gonna die…" does have a marked exasperation to it, the kind of frustration someone who has put a lot of effort into something might express. If watch the scene again and think of Des saying those words to someone he has already saved twice, you’ll get exactly what I mean.
Of course the twist may not be who he tells at all and regardless of this tidbit there is still little known - solidly known that is - about tonight’s mysterious flashback device and how that will work into everything. On that end of things though, Jeff does have a hint for us from Damon Lindelof himself. I’m not going to spoil that though, head on over to Entertainment Weekly and read it straight from the Doc.
Jeff’s question about the Hatch being the only fail safe supports my theory that the guys in the arctic station are the real fail safe. Now they are manning the magnetic anomoly from afar. Look at the end of the season finale last year. One of the guys pulls a notebook with emergency numbers. He enters some code into another computer and tells his buddy to make the call to Penny Widmore. I believe that she is looking for the anomoly, not Desmond. The fact that they happen to be in the same place is coincidence, or fate…..
Comment by El Prez — February 14, 2007 @ 8:41 am
Some things I think I think
Lost is supposed to be linked to “The Third Policeman” which is supposedly about people looping through their existence over and over again. I haven’t read it yet, so I can’t comment.
Juliet is hired because she’s a fertility expert. I n her interview, they showed her a womans womb that was damaged in some way, and ask her if she’d be interested in finding out what happened to her.
The others seem to have a pecial interest in children, even going so far as adopting the children they’ve taken as their own. Can’t they have their own children?
There seems to be some issue of time, past and future, precognitive abilities, etcetera.
Everyone asssumes the four toed statue is from the past, but no one has ever heard of that.
I think I read somewhere the opinion that humans will eventually lose their little toe to evolution as it isn’t needed anymore.
What if - The island is a scientific outpost for people from the future, sent back to the past to solve a worldwide catastrophe, a genetic problem or disease that has caused sterility and damaged the planets ecosystem? That would tie in the fertility, the obsession with collecting and studying animal life, testing vaccines, knowledge of the future, huge power producing systems, etcetera.
It’s not a neatly tied-up theory, but it could happen :’)
Comment by FutureBoy — February 14, 2007 @ 9:50 am
FutureBoy’s theory actually ties into mine (as a lot of theories will) about Aaron Degroot being the phenomenon on the island (not mine originally, but I’ve added to it). Being from the future could explain how he came upon his extraordinary abilities, as he may have been much more highly evolved. I’ve discussed this more thoroughly in the jumping the shark thread. Your theory seems a realistic possibility, and could be used to tie lots of loose ends. Good work…
Comment by cap10tripps — February 14, 2007 @ 10:03 am
A lot of people are tossing around the concept that this is a “time loop” - I’m not sure where that comes from - But I read an old Frank Herbert book called “Destination Void” where they created a team of scientists out of clones and sent them out into deep space to solve a problem - and if they failed, they collected their data and sent a new identical team out with the new information that they learned.
Maybe this is a similar concept, they are playing out an experiment, and if it fails, they go back around and try again till they get it right?
Comment by FutureBoy — February 14, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
I’m going to take a wild guess at the flashback surprise: Desmond’s “flashback” will actually be of future events. They’ll be really sly and make it look like it’s something that happened a few years back (since we know the Widmores will be in it), maybe from before he went to jail, and then one of the Losties will show up at the end of his vision and be like “Hey man, remember the time that Paulo guy went to take a dump in that hatch? That sure was random.”
Comment by wickedmachine — February 14, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Hey, cap10tripps, who exactly is Aaron DeGroot? The baby’s name is Aaron Littleton.
Comment by Joe D. — February 14, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
FutureBoy, the problem with that woman’s womb (the xrays that Halpert was showing Juliet…and asked her if she’d like the freedom to find out what happened.) the problem was that Juliet said the womb belonged to a 70+ year old woman. Halpert told her that it was a 26 year old woman. I think that the others’ reproductive organs are aging MUCH, MUCH faster than the rest of their bodies.
Comment by Joe D. — February 14, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Remember how last week’s LOST was amazingtacular?
Well, this weeks lost is even MORE awesome, and–sorry Doc–may be taking Not in Portland on as one of the BEST EPISODES OF LOST EVER. If not the most surreal and tragic.
I do like being in Canada. We get things a couple of hours earlier.
Comment by theletterp — February 14, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
‘theletterp’ - err, just a little correction to your comment - being in Canada has nothing to do with it - the whole country isn’t in the same time zone. Perhaps you are on the East Coast of Canada and are viewing the show before others however?
Comment by coalharbourqt — February 15, 2007 @ 1:17 am
People on the east coast of Canada can see Lost up to 1.5 hours before those on Eastern time. And I have to agree with ‘theletterp’. The episode was fantastic, a great piece of work examining the whole fate vs. free will archetype.
Comment by kilroy — February 15, 2007 @ 6:10 am
I think what theletterp was referring to is that CTV in Canada which also airs LOST on Wed nights, shows it at 7:00 CST. It has nothing to do with where you are in the country.
Comment by krugerindustrialsmoothing — February 15, 2007 @ 6:47 am
Wow, this time zone thing is way more confusing than I thought.
I am indeed on the east coast, if that has anything to do with it, but I thought that we all got it at the same time? Maybe not?
Oh well, let us not dwell on such things. The point is that LOST WAS AMAZING LAST NIGHT.
Comment by theletterp — February 15, 2007 @ 7:38 am
last night was a great episode. I too think Claire is the one Desmond is talking about.
Comment by desmond_tutu — February 15, 2007 @ 7:40 am
Joe B.
Aaron Degroot is not the baby. Degroot is the supposed founder of the Dharma Initiative. Have you not been watching the same show?
Comment by Akbar Fazil — February 15, 2007 @ 8:01 am
The “Aaron Degroot” theory stems from the “haunted island” theory. It attempts to answer much of the psycho-sematic events on the island, while also answering the shroud surrounding the signifigance of Claire’s baby and why he’s so important (what really happened those days Claire was missing?). A point of interest here is that Aaron Degroot is actually the name of a psychadelic artist (we know that names in Lost are signifigant). The theory is somewhat out of the box, but I think it has to be. If the show ended with “aliens” or “purgatory” we would be pretty disappointed. It’s interesting and at least worth a look.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 15, 2007 @ 8:59 am
Claire is the one Desmond was talking about? What did he say? Did I miss something? One thing about the episode, wouldn’t Charlie remember Desmond’s crazy rant on the street in London now? What’s up with that? Also, I think it’s signifigant to know that he was jumping through time with each head trauma. That begs the question, how then does he see the future? Is it just a sixth sense, because he’s not “jumping” there.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 15, 2007 @ 9:36 am
There has to ba another trauma that happens in the future to Des that sends him back to waking up in the jungle, after turning the key. Why does he wake up naked and not Locke and Eko? Possibly his travel back to that moment is caused by the aforementioned future event. He’s in the loop…The question is how many times has he been through it? He knows Charlie gets electrocuted in the tent, so he devises a way to make that not happen. Then he knows Charlie drowns trying to save Claire and Des himself swims out to save Charlie from doing it. That would indicate that he’s been through the loop twice at least.
He’s not seeing the future. He’s seeing the past, just like he did when he went back to Penny in this weeks flashback.
The question is Why didn’t Charlie remember him? That part has me baffled.
The reason I don’t think the flashback was a dream is because of the picture of Des and Penny. He kept the only copy. Maybe in the first incarnation of the Des/Penny love story she kept the picture. We know she has a copy because we see it on her nightstand, end of season 2. How are there two? Granted she could have made a copy or gotten another one somehow but I like my idea..:)
Comment by El Prez — February 15, 2007 @ 9:56 am
BINGO EL PREZ!!!!!!!!!!! You hit it on THE HEAD!!
All this black hole stuff makes no sense for the fact that black holes exist in outer space not on earth.
the picture dude….there is only ONE picture and Des has it (for now).
Now what is the promo all about? When that chick says ‘We are watching you’ to Jack.
Comment by thirdflr — February 15, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Where are you doc? I am really looking forward to hearing your thoughts/recap on “Flashes Before Your Eyes”!
Comment by Shiloh — February 15, 2007 @ 10:27 am
BINGO EL PREZ!!!!!!!!!!! You hit it on THE HEAD!!
All this black hole stuff makes no sense for the fact that black holes exist in outer space not on earth.
the picture dude….there is only ONE picture and Des has it (for now).
Now what is the promo all about? When that chick says ‘We are watching you’ to Jack.
Black holes exist in outer space because they naturally occur as a star collapses. Doesn’t mean you couldn’t artificially create one. Stars exist in outer space, it isn’t stopping people from attempting fusion in a lab.
The picture is a good catch - continuity error, a copy was made later, or separate timelines?
She (The stewardess from the plane who disappeared shortly before Shannon got shot) doesn’t say “We are watching you” she says “We’re here to watch”
Comment by FutureBoy — February 15, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Can’t people be more specific?
Eastern Standard Time -05:00
Lost aired last night on different channels starting at 7:00 EST, 8:00 EST, 9:00EST, 10:00 EST and 11:00 EST.
We canadian get to see it up to 3 hours before anyone else that are all on the same Eartern time zong throughout the CONTINENT.
Comment by seriously — February 15, 2007 @ 10:36 am
Given that Desmond remembers when he time travels - given that when desmond meets jack on steps and says what if you saved her - then jack goes back and fixes his then wife - Desmond already knows what is going to happen. Then wouldn’t the idea of the universe correcting itself happen here also - maybe when she left him she wasn’t cheating on him - maybe she was dying and didn’t want to tell him? or maybe she like desmond knows that jack needs to be on the plane to end up on the island?
Last nights episode was a little too final destination meets deja vu for me
Comment by lori — February 15, 2007 @ 11:04 am
Now that I think about it, Desmond being naked does leave a little something out there (no pun intended). Is it safe to assume that his first loop started with the hatch implosion? If so, that’s one time through. The fact that he knows Charlie drowns would make a second time through. Maybe Charlie not recognizing him means he’s been through that London loop again. If so, maybe Penny having the pic is more signifigant than we thought. Maybe he goes through that loop with more of a conscious mind about his “looping” and tells Penny what’s going on, which is why she’s looking for our beloved island. She is perhaps waiting for that moment he turns the key. We know he’s looped at least a couple of times on the island, so when the arctic Brazilians “missed it” perhaps it was Desmond turning the key on a previous loop that they missed. Hmmm, interesting (stroking my beard)…
Comment by cap10tripps — February 15, 2007 @ 11:19 am
By the way, any thoughts on who the creepy jeweler lady is? I think we’ll see her on the island eventually, as she is also “looping.” I think we might be seeing Desmond vs. fate, as he seems to have a great interest in changing the course of things. Maybe his meeting with Jack pre-island was an attempt at this. Maybe the others are interested in maintaining fate while other others are interested in changing it. These last two episodes are definitely two of my favorites. The “Final Destination” thing seems kind of cheesy, but I believe it will be so much deeper than that.
Comment by cap10tripps — February 15, 2007 @ 11:28 am
Captain-
I am currently growing a beard so that I may stroke it as a sign of my deep thoughts..:)I liked your theory about the arctic guys missing the anomoly..There is more to that arctic hatch than we know….
As far as the creepy jeweler lady- she’s part of the loop..maybe strategicly placed to keep Desmond on task….He has to turn the key….I also think he’s been through the loop several times…that makes the scene where he asks Jack “What if you did fix her?”….Did Desmond have “faith” or just foresight?
I want to interject that I don’t think everyone is in the loop. Right now I think it’s Desmond and Locke…I just don’t think Locke has had the “moment of clarity” yet…Remember his prediction of rain in season 1? Maybe what he says is faith right now is the same foresight that Desmond has…..
This stuff makes my brain ache….
Comment by El Prez — February 15, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Canadians still suck.
Comment by AMERICAN — February 15, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
OK, I don’t think that Desmond is in a loop or going through black holes to travel in time. Rather, I think he’s reborn each time. Don’t you remember that famous quote “see you in another life brother”? I think he said it to Jack and he seemed to know a lot about heartbreak. SO, he had already learned his lesson at that point about Penny. So maybe that’s why he woke up in the jungle naked…because he was reborn? I’m confused.
Comment by really lost — February 15, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
The point about being reborn is interesting. Since the implosion is his original moment of looping, perhaps each time he is brought to that specific moment he is “reborn.”
Comment by cap10tripps — February 15, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Ms. Hawking tells the astonished Desmond that he isn’t supposed to take the ring, because his not buying it led to his original fate of ending up on the island and turning the fail-safe key. That “if you don’t do those things, David Desmond Hume, every single one of us is dead.” So I looked up David Hume on wikipdia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume
He noted that although we do perceive the one event following the other, we do not perceive any necessary connection between the two. And according to his skeptical epistemology, we can trust only the knowledge that we acquire from our perceptions. Hume asserted that our idea of causation consists of little more than expectation for certain events to result after other events that precede them. “We have no other notion of cause and effect, but that of certain objects, which have been always conjoin’d [sic] together, and which in all past instances have been found inseparable. We cannot penetrate into the reason of the conjunction. We only observe the thing itself, and always find that from the constant conjunction the objects acquire a union in the imagination.” (Hume, 1740: 93). We cannot actually say that one event caused another. All we know for sure is that one event is correlated to another. For this Hume coined the term ‘constant conjunction’. That is, when we see that one event always ’causes’ another, what we are really seeing is that one event has always been ‘constantly conjoined’ to the other. As a consequence, we have no reason to believe that one caused the other, or that they will continue to be ‘constantly conjoined’ in the future
Comment by plo — February 15, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Heres my quick five minute theory. More of an explosion of thoughts then anything cohesive but here it is:
Something just hit me and tell me if I am speaking crazy thoughts here because I might be.
This stuff incorporates ARG stuff so deal with it. (If you dont believe ARG will have any effect please dont post that as I know your feeling and this point has been debated over and over. For the purpose of my post I am assuming it will come into play.) Another assumption is that fate brought the Losties to the island, nothing else.
Lets look at the Valenzetti equation for a second okay.
This was an equation which would predict the end of the world.
However by changing the core numbers 4,8,15,16,23,42 you could
change the equation and the world. However, this equation is unchangeable.
Sound familiar? Lets just change some things.
Lets look at fate for a second. Fate brought the losties to the island. Through the actions of the Losties the hatch was destroyed. The hatch was supposed to save the world. If one could change fate, the hatch wouldnt be destroyed. However, fate is unchangeable.
A big theory of mine is that when the numbers appear in the show they are symbolic of fate. They represent fate bringing the losties onto the plane. They are symbolic of life altering moments. Maybe Desmond is supposed to change the numbers. Change fate. Maybe he will somehow prevent the plane from taking off and therefore stop the hatches destruction, and he will continue to save the world.
A big theme in LOST is the struggle of humanity. What is man’s greatest challenge besides making his own destiny, being a great man. Often in stories about this the great man is never known. The man who saves the world is never known. Wouldn’t it be awesome if the show ended with the Losties never getting onto the plane, and the last shot is of Desmond in the hatch, with the music playing, entering the numbers? I think that would be pretty outstanding.
Now somehow the others are involved. Not sure. Not enough info. This doesn’t answer everything but its pretty cool in my opinion.
Comment by Jalocke — February 15, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Jalocke: interesting thoughts and I do agree with the fate aspect. However I’d like to see it be a WOMAN who saved the world. Just sayin’…
Comment by Full Moon Friday — February 21, 2007 @ 1:26 am
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Comment by cfoiwjss — May 21, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
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Comment by cfoiwjss — May 21, 2007 @ 11:13 pm